Demonstrate, Don't Describe | Ep 827

So like, if you guys take anything from me when it comes to advertising stuff, demonstration, demonstration. And the third rule is demonstration. Like, you describing something with your words is so much less powerful than just showing it. And so if he says, hey, I'm going to talk about this guy, like click in, share screen, pull the guy up, show the group. It's such a visual platform anyways. You demonstrating the actual thing. I mean, A.I. Jack, if you've seen that whole thing, like I think a big reason why he gets a huge amount over is because of the demonstration that he's doing by doing the share screens. Let's, let's rip. Why don't you, why don't you tell everybody real quick what's, what's the group? Give it a, give it a, give it a 60-second. Who do you help? How do you help them?

So we basically run Elmer Lockers community. It's a self-improvement spirituality community around helping people make mindset shifts so they can work better towards their goals. Essentially, it's like a more practical approach to like manifestation.

Are you personal development?

Yeah, we're in the self-help category.

Okay, cool.

We're actually ranked number 1 all time and we're creeping in at the current Squid Games below.

Must be nice. Must be nice.

But yeah. So is there anything you want me to expand on before we jump in?

Well, let's start with— so what are the features of the offer?

So the features of the offer are essentially weekly coaching calls with the creator. We have the community itself. Then we have courses. Alex, we actually had 4 points that we thought would be interesting to touch on, but maybe I can run them by you.

Go for it.

I'm taking notes. Awesome. The 4 areas that we want to touch on are churn. We've got our churn down to 16 to 18%, but we want to get it down to even the low teens. So we wanted to see what we could do there. The second one was audience conversion rate. Our creator has around 450K on YouTube, and we've done some things that have worked pretty well to convert viewers into leads and then leads into purchases. But we wanted to see what else we could do. Third was Ascension. This month, actually, we ran a one-time kind of accelerator, or as Calvin Hollywood calls it, a project community. It did about $22K, but that's like a one-time thing. And so we were looking for ways to get more recurring revenue on the Ascension side. And then number 4 was how to create urgency for people to buy when there is no promotion or like discount or launch going on, essentially.

Yeah. I'm gonna answer that fourth question first, and then we'll dive into the way that I would normally approach this. So this goes for everybody. I don't know if you, if you, if you know this, but inside of this lovely book, the last chapter is on naming and inside of the naming, we talk about having rotating seasonal, basically deadlines. It actually might be in the urgency chapter, but basically I like to think about things as a fraternity party planner. So that means that every month there's always a reason, right? And so like, you know, my buddy got his wisdom teeth taken out, therefore we should drink. So that's what for too many party planners, they're like, oh, I guess we shouldn't party tonight because I guess there's nothing special. Like there's always something special. It's someone's birthday, it's the business's anniversary, it's the founder's milestone for something he did, you know, a year earlier when he started his YouTube channel. It's a milestone for how many people he hit on his subscriber base. It's the first of spring, it's Easter, it's Halloween, it's go back to school, it's New New Year, new me. Like there's always a reason that you can come up with in order to justify giving people some sort of incentive to take the next action. All right. That being said, I would like big picture from a continuous basis, as much as I just explained that whole thing, do I think it matters? No. So like whenever you have some of these kind of like deadlines, in my opinion, a lot of what you do is you just pull forward demand. So people who would've probably otherwise bought in a month just buy now. And so does it necess— like there is this, uh, very famous case study, uh, in the US with, uh, GMC, which is a big car manufacturer here. And there was a while, some of the older people who are listening to this might remember this, uh, where they ran this thing called the employee discount, which is basically they sold cars at the same price to the public as they do to their employees. And it was like, the biggest success of like of all time, comma. And then they realized that all they did was as soon as they stopped running it and they looked at the next 4 months, their sales offset and they just pulled forward 4 months of sales basically. And so they were like, okay, well that didn't work and they no longer run that promotion. Right. And so again, I think in a local marketplace, sometimes it's helpful to have it as a little bit of a wrapper for like why you're advertising something in a paid ads perspective. But since you guys are organic, for the most part, the platforms are generating, are bringing in new demand on a regular basis. And so simply making the offer available to a new audience will typically be good enough. And on the return audience, it's just reminding them. It's reminding them that you exist, reminding them that this offer exists and not kind of shying away from it. I think like taking your CTA seriously but not too seriously, I think is the goal. So sometimes you've probably seen these YouTube channels that are like 2-minute long CTAs. It's like, dude, this is too much. Like, this is going to kill the video. On the flip side, if you barely say anything about it at all, it's like it does— they don't think you're taking it seriously, so they don't take it seriously. So I think it's being like very purposeful, like 15 seconds and I'm going to really explain what this is. You should take, you know, go do it. 15 to 30 would be my max for the CTAs that are in video. All right. So that's the urgency piece. Let's start from the way I would normally do this, which is where customers coming from. It's YouTube. So let's pull that up. So he's doing a video every 2 or 3 days. Great. Okay, so he's got some volume. Do you know how he's picking his topics?

He's been doing this for a while and we've worked with him, but he's been doing the YouTube far longer than we have.

Yeah.

So not too much. He kind of just sees what's working in the space and adds his own kind of twist to it, if that makes sense.

His own spin. I would recommend the same. So I mean, that's obviously he's not on the call, so I won't spend too much time on this because you don't have as much control over it. Can you just click into one of those videos just so I can so I can look at the actual video itself. Click in. I'm just going to look for CTAs. Pause real quick. Okay, so right above the fold. So that's good. Let's see, does he have first comment? Scroll down. Okay, so opportunity there is that you should own the first comment because you'll probably change the description on a regular basis. So that's kind of tactic number one. First comment. Let's make sure that we have that. And if you're first comment and you're the person, then you almost always get upvoted. So you can do that or you can pin it. Either of those would work and you will get clicks from it. So I can promise you that. Okay, so that's number one. Get my book on Amazon, connect with me on Instagram. Duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh. Full disclaimer. Okay, that's fine. Is— do you know where the CTAs normally are?

Usually the first link in the description.

Oh no, no, in video.

Oh, in the video. He sometimes embeds them. So if he's like making a point, he'll make a point about someone in the community and he'll kind of reflect it back to them. About that.

So I would recommend, because I didn't see it when he just, uh, when Kirby just went through that, but I think it would be massive for you guys, and this goes for everyone if you're doing any kind of video content, is demonstration. So like, if you guys take anything from me when it comes to advertising stuff, demonstration, demonstration, and the third rule is demonstration. Like, you describing something with your words is so much less powerful than just showing it. And so if he says, hey, I'm gonna talk about this guy, like click in, share screen, pull the guy up, show the group. Like it's such a, it's such a visual platform anyways. You demonstrating the actual thing. I mean, AI Jack, if you've seen that whole thing, like I think a big reason why he gets a huge amount over is because of the demonstration that he's doing by doing the share screens. So that's, that's number 3. Okay. I'm not going to talk more about it besides make sure that it's in the first third because you're just going to get probably double as many people who are going to see the CTA versus putting it kind of near the end. So share screen demonstration. All right. So now everyone clicks over. So let's, let's, let's follow the click path.

And Alex, I should say that right now we're testing sending people straight to the about page, but usually it's not. Usually it's to a lead magnet.

Okay.

That's a topic that we wanted to hit on as well because I mean, sending straight to about is usually not what we do because we do heavy on emails as well to convert people.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And maybe Skool will have something like that coming in the future. It might. I don't know. I don't know. You know, your guess is as good as mine.

I'll kill the game for us.

It's actually probably not as good as mine. Let's, let's watch this thing. It's— we can watch it at 2x. It'll take us— it'll take us 2 and a half minutes, and I think it's worth it.

You may be asking yourself this question: why am I so far behind? Why are there so many people out there that are making millions of dollars and I'm working this 9-to-5 job? Is there something that I don't know that they know? And the answer to that is yes, there are things that they know that you don't know. But that's why you've been led to this community. I know these secrets. I've mastered the art of focus, present moment awareness, and knowing that I'm living in a simulation. And that's exactly what I'm going to teach you within this community. And you may be asking yourself, why learn from me? Why join my community? I am a direct descendant of one of Neville Goddard's VIP students, which is my grandfather, Elmer O. Blocker Jr. And all of that stuff that Neville Goddard taught him taught me. And I've used that. I went from being in prison for 8 and a half years to getting out under 3 years. I manifested nearly 500,000 subscribers on my YouTube channel, manifested 2 supercars, a super truck, a beautiful house, the physique of my dreams. I'm super healthy. I can manifest whatever I want to come in my life simply by using these techniques. And this is what I want to teach you. And I don't want you to completely rely on my success. Feed up this week to double proof of this, proof of how my techniques work. I want you to go off of the members and the people that I've coached, the success rates within my community right now. My community's been open for 3 months now. 93.7% of the members within my community right now that are actively doing the work, following the courses, doing everything that they're supposed to be doing with my community, 93.7% of them are seeing gains in their life. They're going to the next level. They're manifesting an entirely new life. And a high percentage of that 93% have life-changing transformations within 3 months of joining this community. And with all of that success within the community, I'm so confident, so confident that you will see success within my community that I'm willing to offer you a 5-day money-back guarantee. If you sign up, you just don't like it for any reason, you get your money back. That's how confident I am that you're going to enjoy it, that you're going to like it, that you're going to transform your life through these methods, through these techniques, and through my community. But that's not all.

Okay.

I'm going to now walk you through the systems we have in place within the community, the entire community. Then you can decide for yourself. This is really a no-brainer. First of all, you get 3 live calls with me every single week. I'm doing presentations, I'm covering different books, and I'm breaking all this stuff down, and I'm doing a Q&A every single Friday to answer your questions. And also within the classroom, we have designed a course that's specific, that breaks each and every element down of how to change your mindset and the exercises and the routines that you need to do to break free from the Matrix, to learn how to control the simulation with your imagination. And on top of all of that, you have access to the sleep meditations, the morning meditations that have all the brainwaves, which is alpha, theta, and delta, that are put together by me, designed specifically by me to impress your subconscious mind. down, then you can move on to the next level. And that next level is a Zoom mastermind with me that you get every single month. Once you unlock your potential to a certain point with the courses and your interactions within the community, and you also have access to all of my exclusive content, like all the live recordings that I've done. And you can go back and you can watch all of these live calls that I've done. And I answer so many questions and I go over so many different presentations. Everything that Neville Goddard taught my grandfather, everything that I know and how to manifest, and all the questions that I've answered, they're all there available for you. Everything is recorded. One more thing that I don't want to leave out is the community itself, which is about 1,000 members. And we're all on the same team. We're all holding each other accountable. We're all giving each other reminders and posting our testimonials of everything that we're manifesting, which can be truly, truly helpful. Where you don't have access to this anywhere else but my community. And it's absolutely just amazing to see the progress that's growing within this community and how everyone is implementing the courses and everything that I put together with live calls and assisting everyone with these process of changing their mindset and just the progress that they're having. Seeing that and the accountability part of it is priceless. And just to add some fun and excitement within the community, we do giveaways. Last month we did a $1,000 giveaway to an individual member that's picked at random. Also a one-on-one call with me for another member and also a customized sleep meditation designed specifically for that person. You know, we just give this stuff away within the community to make it more fun and exciting for the actual community, for the growth and just the engagement within everything. So much fun. I love you guys and I'll see you inside.

So a couple of things. Number one, success rate is very broad. Like, I don't know what it means. And so I think that if you were to define that a little bit clearer, it would probably do a little better. The second thing is I would want to make sure that the guarantee is described in a better way. And so I would probably copy word for word the script that's right here inside of the Offers Book that I have for a satisfaction guarantee, which is like— and to be clear, I'm not asking you to say yes or no today. I'm just asking you to make a fully informed decision. That's it. And the only way you can do that is by doing it on the inside, not the outside. So get on the inside. And if you see if everything's the— what we say right now, it's true and it's valuable to you, then if it is, then that's when you decided to keep it. If not, no hard feelings. You will then after, you know, clicking the link and following through, be able to make a fully informed decision if this isn't for you. But you can make this decision right now for the same reason that you don't buy a house without first looking inside of it. And just know this, whether it's 5 minutes from now or 5 days from now, if you're not happy, we're not happy. Right? And so for any reason whatsoever, you want your money back, you can get it back because I'm gonna keep your money if you're happy.

Right?

And he can put his, his manifestation stuff on top of that. All you have to do is just go to XYZ or just message me and just say, hey, give my money back, or I'm good, I want to leave. And you got it. And in short order, you know, we'll send it right back to you. And we can only make that kind of guarantee because we're confident that what we have is the real deal. And I'm fairly confident when you sign up, you're going to get exactly what you need to insert benefit. The thing is, is we want to position— like, what makes a guarantee stronger is positioning it like a trial. So I would include that. There's two more things that I think are missing or could potentially enhance this. In my opinion, it's a little too blind bullet. And so if you're listening, you're like, what does that even mean? It's like there— I fail to get the meat. Like, I want to have— I want to have a belief broken. And as of right now, that doesn't— so, and the belief breaking is say what they believe, say why it's wrong, say what's right, provide proof. Right. And that's the four-step framework for just kind of breaking two or three beliefs that he can do. He mentions pain at the beginning, but not like the belief that potentially led to that pain. I, you know, you know my beliefs on manifestation, so I'll just— I'll keep this purely to the marketing, but I would want to have a little bit more meat there so that I have something to kind of hold on to. And then the last thing is there's a lot of featuring features, but I would love to hear like what the benefit of that feature is for each of those things. So it's like I do 3 calls a week. It's like so that you won't get stuck. And if you have questions about your specific circumstance, we can actually just tailor it to you in real time. It's like, oh, okay, that now I understand why 3 calls a week, otherwise like who cares, right? And so I would describe that in more detail, like, and the courses that we have, they're purposely designed to be self-study so that you can do it at your own pace. So if you're somebody who's like, I wanna go all in, I wanna zoom really fast, you can do that. But if you're somebody who's like, you're working 9 to 5 and you just have an hour a day or 30 minutes a day or 30 minutes a week even, you can do it and you won't feel like you're getting behind, right? And so that way we do it that way and people seem to like it, right? And so it's just like, we just wanna translate those things to make it more compelling so that they know why, why this even matters. Right. Okay. So that's, that's the VSL. Let's pull the, let's pull the, the page up and we'll talk about the lead magnet thing too in a second. So there's two videos. Okay. I don't want to watch the second one, but let me just see what it is. Okay. Let's do the next click over. I'm guessing is that other video just proof?

Yeah.

Okay.

Got it.

Okay.

Got it.

Claim these bonuses if you join before February 31st. Is it a leap year this year? There's definitely no February 31st ever.

Okay. That's a typo.

Yeah. Okay. Uh, one-on-one coaching with a head coach, ongoing one-on-one DM support. Uh, welcome to the world. This is a simulation. I'm gonna teach you to shift your conscious mind to become the person you truly want using techniques. Okay. Same mindset shift stuff. You go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Here's what you get. I don't know anything about this guy, Neville Goddard. So maybe people who are coming know who this guy is, but I have no idea.

But I will say that we've tested this quite a lot. What has made much more impact than the page has been the marketing itself. And everyone we send to this page is like nose heavy about Neville Goddard. So like our traffic that comes from school, because we ranked on the Discovery, doesn't convert very well at all. But the traffic that we send converts at a high clip.

Yeah, understood. So I'll say this. So I make all marketing, and this is just a rule for everybody. I make marketing as though no one knows anything, because if it can convert cold, it'll convert warm. But if you can only convert warm, it won't convert cold. Subset, superset. Does that make sense? And so I always structure it that way. And I think this is actually a big mistake that a lot of, especially organic creators make, is they treat every video like they're talking to their audience. But the whole point of the video is to reach new audience. So we have to not make it feel like it's an inside joke. We want people who on the outside so they can as quickly as possible understand what's going on so they can make a purchasing decision. Just big picture. All right. So I'm not gonna spend too much more time to, like, I could, I could work on the about page, but I'm guessing why don't you show me the other funnel that you guys are sending your traffic to? Because the links though are sending to school though.

Are you just testing? Right there.

Yeah.

Right now we're testing it. Yeah.

Okay. Got it. Well then why don't you show me the other funnel and what metrics do you have right now behind the scenes for the conversion?

So that's the dashboard.

Okay. 2.3% vision conversion, churn. Okay. Nothing really pops out. Obviously, I think our average right now is 4%, so it's a little bit lower, but I think it's because what we're just talking about, which is you're not, you're not getting the benefit of all the school traffic because it's not meant to. And like, that's one of the biggest benefits of being on school is that we send you traffic too. So I would, I would consider like, I would show it to people who don't know anything about Neville Goddard. How can I explain who this guy is in 3 sentences? For everybody else because basically, like, the edification that occurs there is very like, this guy's a big deal, this guy's my grandfather, and then you're going to learn lessons that he learned from somebody. It's like, it's, it's very like 2, 3 steps removed. And so we need to make sure it's rock solid, make sure that we prioritize cold. Okay. So right now, is all the conversion being done on the page or is there calls or what?

No, right now it's on the page. And then the funnel that I think Jacob can pull up and show you is lead magnet to then like either a webinar which we ran 2 weeks ago and that was super successful. Yeah. And then email nurturing from there or before we were giving a kind of PDF lead magnet.

You push for annual on the webinar?

No.

Yeah, I would push for annual if you guys are going to do webinars. I do think that doing the webinar is a good idea. And so I would repeat that. So if you ran a web— like if you guys do a webinar once a month or every other week, I think that would be a good idea.

Okay. And can I ask on that? Because that's a big question that we had. So we did run the webinar. It went really well. We got a ton of new leads, we got a ton of sales. But the question is, is how do we repeat that? Like, are people going to show up? Because then they might think, oh, you know, it's a sales— it's a sales pitch at the end. Like on organic, how do you structure a webinar?

So basically, so you can't do the same webinar. So what you would do is it'd probably be like 80/20 in terms of the structure. So the first 80 is gonna be more or less, that's gonna be the content. And then you're just going to have your CTA at the end. I talk about this with people who have free communities, run your weekly, you know, webinar where you teach something that's, you know, valuable, whatever. And then you make your soft toss to the paid side. If you're running like a true perfect webinar, something like that, I think that would get— you can't really repeat that unless you're going to new traffic. Now, I will say this, his YouTube channel is bringing in new traffic all the time. And so you could conceivably just run only to people who are opted in the last 14 days and have a much smaller webinar. And in that case, you could repeat the same webinar over and over again. If I were a smart cookie, what I would do is I would probably do a webinar for all new only every 7 days, and then twice a month I would do one to the whole list. And that the new one to the whole list would be more like content-driven soft CTA. The other one is just the, the ramrod. It's the thing that, you know, converts.

And how do you frame that on the YouTube itself? Because surely everyone is seeing that sort of pitch to the webinar.

Hey, if you're brand new here, I've got an onboarding webinar that I can take you through that'll give you all the fundamentals and get you up to speed. So if you don't know who Neville Goddard is, you don't know who this is, you don't know what this is, you don't know this is, I can get you up to speed in the fastest human way possible and I'll be live with you. And if you have been around and you've been like, ah, you've been on the fence, you've been like, you know, you've been lurking, then get over there, you know, get over to the community and, you know, we'd love to see you. And here's a free gift, which is a lead magnet. Sweet.

So that's the funnel we were running to the—

Okay. So, so, uh, what was the convert— like how many people showed up? What was the conversion?

So there was 2,000 people signing up and that was a 70% conversion rate from people who landed on the page. 1,000 unique viewers on the webinar, and then 500 made it to the pitch and we converted 100 out of them.

So 100 out of 1,000 who started? Yeah. You got 10%. Okay.

Live on the webinar. And then I will say we sold 40 after in the follow-up sequence.

So 140. That sounds, that, that sounds, that sounds a little lower than you'd want given the price point. So I would have expected the fact that it's warm audience and $60 as a price point. I think I would have been targeting something closer to 20% for something like that, maybe 25% with follow-up. I do think that you guys should just basically go for, go for the annual and your churn is 18%. So call it, you know, 5 times monthly. So it's 59%, right? Yeah. So $60 times 5. So $300, I think, make the annual $300 or more. So $300 or $400, $399, whatever. And then add in some spicy bonuses that only annuals get, which you'll be able to explain on the webinar. He'll certainly like it more if he gets paid, you know, a bunch upfront because if you had, if you had 100 and they all paid $400, make $40 grand, I feel like he'd be like, that was fun. We should do that again, right?

Yeah, yeah, right.

So I think that, and obviously churn on annuals is going to be significantly lower.

Yeah, usually we would have wanted to push to annual, but there's a few reasons why we're, we're not actually pushing annual at the moment, right? He kind of didn't want to at the time when annual came out, uh, to do annual. I don't know if it was a commitment thing or if he was worried about the long-term prospects. It was earlier on when we started working together.

Yeah.

And then the idea kind of slipped through the cracks, but we're working on it now.

I think you should for sure do it. I mean, assuming he's committed to doing this, like, I think it would make a ton of sense. Yeah. And just add in, add in 1 or 2 key bonus bonuses that only people who are year-long people get. And I would just say like, and this is the benefit of committing, right? Like the biggest issue that you've had, like if I were trying to sell this, I would say some to the degree of you've probably been wishy-washy for a lot of stuff in your life. You haven't been able to commit. You've been on the fence. Right? Like, I think maybe the reason that you're on this call today is because you haven't been able to pull the trigger. And so maybe the first step towards living the life that you want to live is taking action, right? Is actually making a commitment and saying, I'm actually going to change my year. I don't need to wait till January to change my life and just waste the rest of this year. Is that what you're going to do? You're gonna waste the next 10 months because it's not January 1st, right? Next 9 months, next 8 months. Of course not. You can start now. You can change your life in a second, right? And I would demonstrate it by saying, like, listen, Who here believes that you can change your life in an instant? Some of you guys don't believe me. I'll prove it to you right now. Go drink a bottle of Johnnie Walker, right? Get in your car and drive. You absolutely can change your life in an instant. And so the thing is, is you believe the negative, but you don't believe the positive. This is if I wanted to pretend to be woo woo, right? Which I'm not. But if I wanted to pretend to be, this is how I'd sell it, right? The positive is just as believable. It's just that you plant the seeds now and then the tree grows later. You can cut a tree down much faster than you can grow it. And the best day to plant a tree was 20 years ago. Second best day is right now. So that's probably how I'd position getting people to commit and getting people to take action. Okay, so annual plus bonus, you're doing that. That'll help cash flow. I'm guessing you guys aren't thinking of doing ads yet, correct?

No, we want to kind of master this.

No, that's good. Yeah, master this. I think it's a good idea. Okay, so let's scroll back to conversion. So from a conversion perspective, the webinar is the primary conversion vehicle you have, and then you obviously have the page there. The 2 and change percent, I think the changes to the web— the VSL would be the things. I think the way you position the guarantee, the way I outlined those things would be helpful. Putting more meat in it, making it position like a trial, explaining more about the success rate, adding benefits to each of the features so that people understand what this is even about because it's very vague. Like a lot of the words are right, but there's it's like it has the framework of a VSL, but it doesn't have the— think about like a Christmas tree where you hang ornaments. It has the structure, it just doesn't have the ornaments on it. All right. So we talked about the urgency thing, we talked about traffic. So you wanna talk about conversion? I'm sorry, ascension?

Yeah, ascension and churn would be great. The other two topics.

All right. So then what ascension, where are we talking about ascension-wise?

So I'll, I'll show you what we've done so far up to this point. So we have this community, which is the main community.

Yeah.

And then essentially, and this is the $60. And what we did was to do a one-time, like a 30-day sort of challenge, like an accelerator, if you will, where people get more attention, kind of more intimate community with more intimate lives, more support, et cetera. And this was a $300, uh, 300 one-time payment. So we kind of use the one-time payment feature and this did 22, 23K, I think, which was— it was nice. But we want to— we don't know whether to go for a full like rolling community and do that at a higher price point.

I've already got this launches. I've already got it. Make this the benefit that people get for doing annual subscription. So when you sign up for the annual, the first thing we're going to do is run you through a 30-day self-challenge. And this is an entirely custom program. Let me show you the proof. People bought this for $300. They bought it. It's done. Look at all this proof. I'm going to give it to you for free just when you become a member because I want you to succeed long term. Savage, right? That's cool.

Yeah, that's super good. So that's a cool bonus. But what I'm thinking is for just Ascension in general, because like we have like 1.1, close to 1.2K members and like I feel like there's more LTV we could get out of these people. I don't really know what that looks like. Like we've tried one-to-one, but that's too much like time versus money for him and he can't like charge enough to make it worth his, his, his like actual hourly rate. We kind of want to find the most efficient way of doing this because doing these launches every couple of months for a new 30-day accelerator is cool. But it's just a lot of—

Dude, you want to have the, you want to have that rotating promotional thing, the new 30-day accelerator. That's the new wrapper you put for every annual promotion and just go bullshit.

You get that for free.

Annual.

Yeah. So listen guys, you got two options. You can just pay for the 30 days for $300 or you can pay $300 for the year and get it for free and get everything else. It's up to you. Yeah, of course everyone's going to take the annual. Yeah.

So they get a free invite basically to this community. Yeah. And then in terms of converting more monthly, we should just try to up them to annual then.

And I mean, you should try to up everybody to annual. I mean, annual has lower churn, period. You'll get more committed people, etc., etc. You'll get cash flow in advance, which is helpful. But beyond that, the conversion— so there's, there's— okay, I want to make sure that I'm tracking. So the ascension you're talking about is just from these 30-day things that are one time into the membership, correct?

No, other way. So we have people in the membership and then we launch this 30-day challenge essentially, and we basically promoted it to the current customers paying monthly this new thing. And then 80 of them bought.

Yeah, I think the play that I just outlined is the one that will convert on a regular basis. And then all you have to do now, this is the point that I was talking about with the the naming thing, right, is that just wrap, wrap it into a season. The structure of the challenge is going to be the same. Just wrap it into a different season. And you seem skeptical, so I'm going to break the belief for everybody else who's on here. So in a gym, I marketed the same fish. I have same pond, very tiny pond. What is my actual delivery going to be? You're going to stop eating shit. You're going to move. This is like, this will not change, right? Like I have classes and I have meal plans. That's what I have. And so how do I make this sound new and interesting? And so for 30 days, basically what we're gonna talk about for the challenge or for the 28-day transformation, it's the same thing for weight loss. Same exact shit, right? What we're doing is we're just putting a word in front of it. So it could be fall, it could be spring, it could be season, it could be the reason why, whatever it is. You know, if, you know, if COVID had been going on, it'd be like, get, get outta that, you know, get out of the house, get into your head or whatever. Like you just, you just put a little ism in front of it and then All you have to do is basically swap the first video or first onboarding thing that makes it contextual to whatever the, you know, the promo was. And then everything else after that's still gonna be like, you're gonna have a meal plan and you're gonna work out.

Yeah, I guess I'm not skeptical. I guess I'm, I'm trying to track in.

I did that for everybody else too, just so you know. I was just doing it for everybody else too.

I got you. I'm just trying to track the direct, like, cuz obviously we got people coming. I'm, I'm just trying to think about it logistically. Like how are we gonna make this work? Let's walk through it. So people watch YouTube, they do the lead magnet, or they go straight to the about, they buy the monthly, or they buy the annual and get this as a bonus. The thing I'm trying to think of is, okay, let's say we have the monthly members and we tell them, look, we're launching this accelerator for the month of May. You can either pay $300 to get in or you can upgrade to annual. So I'm tracking with that. I guess where I'm, I'm not tracking is let's say you had a member who, let's say, bought the accelerator in February but also wants to do it in May. Are you not going to lose out on the revenue for the people who wanted to do both?

If they want to do it in May, then one of the benefits is if I run a future challenge, you also get to participate in that for free.

And so we could just charge—

We use the challenges as perpetual conversion. You're like, how do I ascend? This is your conversion mechanism. And you run an A/B offer, $300 one time, $300 annual, and you get everything else unlimited. It's a decoy offer.

So the ascension is annual, basically just trying to send everyone to— Okay, I'm with you.

All right, sweet. Okay, so that's the Ascension piece. You feel okay there? Okay. So that Ascension thing also tackles churn to a large degree because if you got half of your group to, you know, to ascend, then your churn will cut in half virtually. I think. Are you guys doing onboarding of any kind right now? Yes.

So actually the biggest mover to our churn was doing 1-to-1 onboarding calls.

Okay.

So we've hired someone to do 15-minute 1-to-1 onboarding.

Great. Well, I think what would make sense there too is like with the, with the 15-minute onboarding, you can give them a script to sell the $300 or $400 annual. Then they'll have a reason to do it and they'll get a commission. So that way you have multiple conversion mechanisms. So you have one on the onboarding call. You also have that, you know, one that you're sporadically doing to the whole community. And you can say if you buy right now, you can get it for $300. If you buy it any other time, it's $400. So that's our little incentive to get you going.

I actually got the idea to do the one-to-one onboarding piece from you. It was probably one of these calls that I heard you talk about.

Yeah, it works.

I'm just trying to think. So, because basically our churn used to be like when we first came in and took over the community, like we didn't launch it, but we kind of took it over and churn was at like near 30%. Yeah. We did a few things, like a few, we pulled a few levers to get it down. We started actually moderating the community a lot more. So it's much more high quality, much more like, you know, super good stuff in the actual community itself. We kind of frame the marketing a bit differently to bring in better quality people. So a little bit less woo-woo in your words and a bit more pragmatic. So a bit more sort of action taking. That's obviously helped. And then the one-to-one onboarding calls, those have been the biggest levers. I'm just trying to think of anything else other than annual, because obviously we will do that. Any other levers that we can pull within the business to help the churn in general?

I would try to get very clear on the problem that people are trying to solve. So one of the things, like the reason I had like it said success rate 93%, To me, I'm like, I don't know what that means. Like success or what? And so I think one of the, one of the really nice things that I, that I like that Jack does, I don't know if you guys watch that, but like he had people say like, what's the one automation you want help with? Right. And I think asking people like, what's the one obstacle that you're dealing with? What's the belief that you want to have broken? Right. And I think that if you could use that, then we can take this very amorphous deliverable and make it more tangible. And if you want to get— if you want to— if you want to cross over to the side of Hormozy in the world of pragmatism, you could even say, what are you doing that you want to stop doing? Or what do you want to start doing that you're not doing? That's it. Just very simple. What behavior do you want to change? It's either going to stop or it's going to start. You stop a bad thing, you start a good thing. And I think I meant people got really concrete. Then what would happen is that you would frame the value of the community based on the value of changing that behavior permanently. That is a significantly more valuable thing than like the secrets of the past. Like if you tell someone I can help you quit smoking, the value of the community is relative to quitting smoking to that person, which might be significantly more valuable. The more levels of translation someone has to do between the messaging and their problem, the lower your conversion is going to be because you're basically asking them to chew the food and digest it for them when really you need to chew it. They're little baby birds. You got to, you got to feed it right into their mouth, pre-chewed. You need to do the thinking for them. So I think it's actually like you will be able to probably change less about your actual deliverable and change two core things. One is that you're very clear about the problem that they're trying to solve. And number two, the path that they need to follow to solve it. So on that onboarding call, I would say you're trying to quit smoking. That's amazing. So obviously we can't promise anything because we can't do it. You can. But what I can do is I can walk you through a path. That'll help you kind of like, look, there's, there's a ton of stuff in here and I don't want you to feel overwhelmed. Number one reason people cancel, right, is just do this, just do this and then post when you're done.

So I wanna mention something about this. So the problem with our offer is that it's very general and we've struggled to find that one thing because everyone's one thing is so super different to them. Some people use the teachings that we teach for cars, some of them use it for health, some of them for relationships. And we haven't been able to make a concrete offer based on one thing. And that's what we're really struggling with.

Yeah, you need a metaframe. That's what I'm saying. There's no meat. Like, it's, it's a lot of ancient secrets, but like, there's no, there's no meat, there's no framework that this is based on. And so the way that I would think through this, this is why I'm a big behavior change guy, right? Which is that fundamentally there are things that you were doing that you don't like that you do. There are things that you want to start doing that you're not doing. And whether your goal is that you're trying to lose weight, whether you're trying to get the girl, whether you're trying to start a business, fundamentally it's always going to boil down to what you're doing right now. If I wanted to go woo woo, which I wouldn't, but if I did, then I would be like, all that starts between your ears. Like, you literally cannot move your body without it starting in your brain. And so that's where we start. All right. Now, that being said, this can be really amorphous. And so I want to make this very concrete. When you, when you, when you apply or when you submit your information, I want you to put down the thing that you wanna start or stop. So there's gonna be two sides and I'd like you to do both. And the reason for that is that you cannot start doing something without making room for it. And that's one of the number one reasons that people fail is that they try to add something to an already full plate. It doesn't work. So we have to take something out in order to put in the types of behaviors that you want. And so we have to have both. It's almost like this is compelling, but that's because I don't do manifestation shit. I'm saying this with love.

All right. Don't worry, we know. But that's actually, that's actually the piece. That's actually the piece, Jacob, that like, that's actually it. Like the accelerator, we're doing it around sort of self-concept, like behaviors that they don't want to do, what they do want to do, shifting the identity. Like that's actually it. And we can just apply it like that can be the focus, that can be the meat, and then it can apply to whatever it is that would give you the meat of how to do personal development.

That will get you to know the secrets of Hormozy.

Of all people, of all people, I don't think it'd be you, Alex.

But fundamentally we want to, we want to hit on that as the core thing. And then what you wanna do is explain how it applies to different scenarios. And then, and then again, we chunk up to once, and the reason this is so, so valuable is that once you know how to change your behavior, what are you gonna like, this is why I like future pacing a little bit. So be like, what do you want to, once you, once you lose the weight, what are you gonna do? You don't, you're gonna wanna get the job, right? Once you get the job and you lose the weight, what do you wanna do? You wanna get the girl. Right? Like there's always going to be other behaviors. There's always going to be new mountains that you have to climb, but you have to learn how to climb to begin with first. And so there's a, there's a Haitian proverb. This is before they were eating cats and dogs, that behind mountains are more mountains. And so it's just a great, it's just a great visual for the idea of like you had, you can only see the mountain in front of you, but once you get to the top of that mountain, you will be able to see more mountains because you have the perspective to see them. Right. And so we have to master climbing. And so I would probably, if I was making this VSL, I would probably do it as some sort of analogy, like climbing a mountain, like something that, that, that could translate that's much more tangible that people can kind of hold onto. And so the idea is once I teach you how to climb, then you can climb whatever mountains you want, but we'll start with the mountain that you need to start climbing first, cuz we gotta solve that. So let's solve that. Let's get you outta pain. Let's get you, you know, stop being confused, stop being overwhelmed, and just boil this down to the things that you need to change in your life. The things you gotta start, things you gotta stop, period. And that's what we're gonna focus on. And when you start, if you join annual, the first 30 days that we're going to do is just me to kick this one thing. Obviously you can do it on your own and I'll make a whole plan for you. Or my recommendation— this is what the people who have the most success do— is just start with the Kickstarter. You've struggled to commit in the past. Make this be the first. You draw the line in the sand saying today's the day I'm going to change. You've had many opportunities in the past. You haven't done it.

Yeah, I honestly, I think that's it. Like, I think that's the, that's the piece.

It's too big. I'll be real with you. I don't know how, you know, Mr. Elmer, I don't, I don't mean this as an insult, but like the reason, the reason I don't like the woo-woo world is because it's so fluffy and I just want reality. And so I think that if he focuses on clarifying his language so that people can understand it, 'cause I think there's a little bit of mysticism that, not a little bit, a lot of mysticism that gets appealed to. And mysticism is misunderstood. People don't get it. And so I think that actually you'll lose conversion because people don't know what we're talking about. Now, I'll bet you if he has the following that he does, he does have elements in there that people are able to hold on to. It's just not being translated in the marketing material that I saw. Does that make sense? So this isn't me dissing him. I'm just saying, like, it's, it's me watching that. It had the structure of a VSL. It just didn't have the meat because all, all that I heard was basically like the fundamental argument. Like, if we boil everything down— and guys, I'd recommend you doing this, everybody's listening— you have to boil down the core argument. Like, what is the argument that I'm making? The core argument that I heard is my grandfather knew some secrets. He passed those secrets on to me. I have two expensive cars and therefore I know these secrets. I also went to prison and am no longer in prison. That to me, and, and, and the only reason because of that is these secrets. That's, that was the argument to me. Okay. It just, but like, I would want more to the argument.

I think, I think we got what we need.

Okay. No, I'll do, I'll do a little recap because I think other people are probably taking notes. So I'll recap my stuff. So on YouTube, first comment/pinned, make sure that the CTA is integrated first third. Do that via demonstration. I would do that with share screens when you're pulling up the specific stories. Talk about the tactics this person employed and the support they were able to get. Success rate in the VSL needs to be defined. What does success actually mean so that someone actually can internalize it? Translate all the features into benefits of what that actually means. Add the meat of some sort of framework that is getting applied rather than just generic secrets. The trial— the guarantee should be positioned as a trial, and I think it would convert a lot better. The copy on the about page should be converted, basically translated into something that works for cold, because if it works for cold, it'll work for warm. The webinar cadence, I think implementing that. So you do one live webinar only for new people every week. That will maximize conversion, the primary offer being annual. And the benefit, the bonus of being annual is the 30-day kickstart that you guys run at the beginning, which you have proof that you have charged $300. And from a rotational perspective of doing the other 2 times a month where you hit the whole list up on those ones, you just basically hit on the season of basically whatever the seasonal flavor is, and that'll keep it relatively fresh. But you're still 80/20, 80% value, 20% ask on the internal, internal launches. The external ones you can do kind of a more structured pitch for the onboarding calls that you guys are doing. I would give a little commission and I would make that $300 and I make annual $400. So any other time besides today, you said you wanted urgency on the onboarding call. I'll give you $50 off or I'll give you $100 off if you choose to do it now. And with that, I'll be able to toss you in. You know what? The next cohort starts in 7 days. Let's get you going.

Just to clarify, you said on the onboarding, you said make it $400, make it $400, but then drop it down to $300. You mean like make the typical annual price, $400. And then if they join the onboarding, do it.

Well, right now your churn, your, your LTV right now is a little above $300. So we don't want to trade, we don't want to trade, we don't want to lose money on the annual. So the right price should be probably, I can do the math, but whatever. What is it?

It's like $400 would need to, would be above.

Yeah. So $59 divided, or it was $59.99, right? Divided by 0.18. So $333 is your actual LTV. So anything below that, you lose money. So I would say let's go $399 as the offer. And then when they're on the call, you can send people at $350 or $349, something like that.

All right, Alex, thank you so much for having us on, man. That was super, super helpful.

You bet. Happy to help. And hopefully if you were in the chat, if that was helpful for y'all, throw some fire emojis so that I can feed the hole that is my soul that seeks outside approval so that I can feel better about myself. Dude, I manifested these fire chats.

You did. Thank you so much, man, for inviting.

You bet. I'm so— I'm just— everybody who's in the woo-woo world, I met with a founder this weekend who wanted us to invest in the business, and I spent 3 hours with him, and he started the conversation by saying, like, it's really all about mindset. And he just, he didn't know what he was getting into. And 3 hours later, he walked out like he was drunk. He was like, I don't know what just happened. He's like, I think you just destroyed everything beautiful in the world. And I was like, or you're just incredibly free now. If anyone can define mindset, I'm, I'm thrilled to hear what you think it is because people use the word left and right and no one knows what it means.

I'm curious, Alex, just one quick question. Do you, do you feel like there's no like psychological benefits to psychological sort of mindset, meditation, stuff like that?

I don't even know what mindset is.

As in like shifting limiting beliefs. You don't think there's anything practical that people can use who aren't as pragmatic as maybe some other people in terms of like just forcing action?

I'll walk you through the logical proof that I walked this founder through. Change in mindset, no change in behavior equals nothing, right? Change in mindset, change in behavior equals Something. No change in mindset, change in behavior equals something. Which variable doesn't matter?

The mindset. But can I offer an objection?

Sure.

Just one objection. Do you, do you think, though, that obviously the change in behavior is the pillar, but some people struggle to make the change in behavior without the change in mindset?

If you can define change in mindset, I'm all ears. But as soon as you try to define it, what you're going to do is you're going to describe a behavior. In which case, change in behavior. True.

Because some behaviors are mental, I guess you could say that.

No, not even. No, not even. Let me say it differently. How would I know a change in mindset had occurred?

Well, I guess you don't, because it's not tangible.

Which is why I don't appeal to mysticism or magic.

Yeah, that's fair enough.

In the observable universe, what will have changed? Now, if you're like, I believe in psychic powers and that's amazing, and I wish you the best. But when people are like, I manifested my husband, you might have decided that you wanted to have a spouse. And then as a result of that, You then started working out and you started like going out more. And I would argue that you working out and going out more is what got the husband, not you standing in your shower doing this. Because if we take the equal opposite, just do the thinking, don't do the doing and see what happens. You guys did. I know, I know, I know everybody who's, who's in here was not, was, you know, you didn't come for a, for a, for a Hormozy personal development talk. But I say this as somebody who like, this is like, I wanna, I wanna put this in context. When I was younger, I believed so heavily in this stuff that I believed I could move things with my mind if I just ascended to a high enough fucking frequency. I thought I could do it. And so it's not that I like have always cast aside. It was that when I saw that nothing in my life changed despite me thinking really fucking hard about stuff, that I was like, I must be missing something here. And so I read self-help after self-help after self-help book. And then this is when I had my job before I quit. And I was like, my life, I remember there was the 10th book that I read. I was like, my life is the same. And so then I changed my perspective. Now you might say that's what happened. It was the change in perspective. Well, I had already changed my perspective a bunch and nothing fucking happened before that. What really happened was I said, okay, from here on out, I will not read another book until I do the things that are in the book. From an action perspective. And then when I started doing the things and not reading new books is when my life changed, which is when I became an absolute advocate for doing shit rather than thinking about doing shit. And I see Jamie in there like, what's really tough about this where you see things like law of attraction is that unfortunately many people who are in positions of power say words that other people nod their heads to and sound good but mean nothing. So like Law of Attraction has been repeated so many times that people think it's a law. It's a movie made by direct response marketers and obviously a really good one from a compelling and persuasion perspective, because the meat in that story is this law. And boy, does it sound better to just attract stuff than go out and get it. So it's, in my opinion, it's selling a victim frame. It's selling that things happen to you rather than you happening to them. And I would prefer to live my life as source, like I am the world's consequence, not the other way around. And there's a great little analogy that I heard a rabbi say recently. He said, there are people who are thermometers and there are people who are thermostats. Some people just have the temperature, they react to the temperature. Other people change the temperature of the room. I would prefer to be cause. And for me at least, it has served me well, which is why I'm an advocate for it. Now, if you like the manifestation stuff, by all means, if you're listening to this, then do it. Like, like I promise you, it makes no difference in my life. I wish you the best. I want you to win. I really, I really genuinely mean that. I want you to win. And if that's what makes you feel good, then do it. But if you have tried that stuff and it hasn't worked for you, then consider just changing your behavior anyways. And there was a very long period of my life where I didn't feel like I deserved success. Now, a lot of people would say you have to change your mindset about that. But what actually changed my mind was realizing that I could do stuff that successful people did, not deserve it, and get it anyways. And so I always identified, oh, like this is real. I identified as the villain. I identified as the oppressor when I was it, when I would watch stories, when I watched movies, I did like when, when something bad happens, I'm like, well, what did they do? You know, right? I'm like, they did something to deserve this shit, right? I, I've always thought that. And because of that, it actually was something that I was like, man, I don't know if I'm a good person. I don't know. I don't know if I deserve success. I, these guilts, these shames, things that I would carry with me. But the thing is, is that all that stuff kept me very handicapped. And so when I realized that I could just do the stuff and not deserve success and get it anyways, all of a sudden I just started doing things and then things started happening. And so the whole deservingness got thrown out the window because I was like, who gives a shit? I don't have to deserve it. I don't have to vibrate at a certain frequency and I'll prove it. I can vibrate at a super low frequency. And if I make 100 calls and you don't, I'll fucking sell more shit than you. All right. And with that, go manifest your destinies. I'll see you later.

Bye. Thank you, guys.