Stop Overthinking and Do the Thing That Works. Hormozi Hotline | Ep 925

Welcome, Crystal, to Hermosi Hotline. We are hot.

Hey.

Hey, what's going on?

Oh, hi, Seth. Watching you on YouTube. Hello from Hawaii.

Hello from— hello from Vegas. All right, so you're doing $33K a month. Okay, got it. All right. Ad spend is zero. Got it. Real estate is the niche. Okay. Oahu luxury homes. Okay. Real estate luxury. Got it. Offer is buy-sell for high net worth. Okay, so you are an agent, right? Are you brokerage?

Yes.

Yep.

Okay. Are you brokerage too or just agent?

Oh, just an agent.

Okay. And I said just— that sounded diminutive. I didn't mean it like that. So congratulations.

Oh, thank you. No worries.

Okay, so the constraint is needs funnel and a clear hook. Unsure if buyers or sellers can share the same offer. Okay, so you want to sell more houses, right?

Yes. So far I'm on track for $25 million this year, but I want to get to $50 million.

Okay, so what do you do right now to get leads?

It's all referrals and a couple of times a month I go live on Facebook. I was doing it more consistently and I would get leads that way, but it's mainly referral based.

Okay, so when you did go live more consistently, you got leads that way?

A few. Yeah. Like this year I picked up $10 million in sales from that one Facebook video.

Well, what do you think I'm going to say?

To do more of going live.

Yeah, that seemed to work pretty good. So you did $10 million in sales. Your commission's what? Call it 3% on average between buy and sell. Yes. Okay, cool. So you made, you made $300,000 off of the lives that you did. How many lives would you say you did?

Usually only 2 a month. I used to go live every Thursday for 4 years straight.

Okay, so 2 a month. And let's just say that that's what you did the year that you did the extra $10 million. Does that sound accurate?

Yes.

Okay, so you did 24 lives and made $300,000. So you made like $13,000 per live.

Yep, that's good math.

That feels worth it, right?

Because it's— yeah, because it's, it's pretty easy and fun. I just hop on, do a house tour, then hop off.

Yeah. So what if we did that— how many, how many houses do you show, or how many houses hypothetically could you do that for per week? I want to say max, not like let's start from where you were to like, what would be the maximum amount of those that you could do?

The max would be, I mean, if I really hustled, probably 20 would be like moving with my schedule.

20 per month?

Oh, I thought you meant per week.

Oh, per week. No, no, that's, that's even better. That's even better.

I could do 5 per week. I could do 5 per week.

No, but I like the 20 per week. That sounded so much better.

How about this?

We'll do this. Do phase 1 of this. So do 5 a week, 1 a day. Do the sexiest one. All right. The one that's the most banger that you could walk through. Do that for 6 months. And then at that point, decide whether you want to go from 5 to 10. Oh, and again, remember, the thing is, is that you're operating from the perspective that you have the existing resources that you currently have to make that decision. But that's not what's going to happen in 6 months from now. Because if the same math held, right, then that would mean that you would be able to accelerate. Let's assume that you're half as efficient with these ones because you're doing more of them, whatever.

All right.

Let's just assume half. So you're making, call it, $6,500 per— let's even go less than that, $5,000 per. Okay. So if you did that, then you make $5,000 5 times per week. So $25,000 a week comes in extra, $100,000 a month, $1.2 million per year extra in commissions. So that would triple Now you go from $33,000 a month to $133,000 a month. So you would quadruple your business if you just did that. And that's at a 1/3 efficiency of your current lives.

Gotcha. Does it matter that I don't have— because I'm learning so much with your content. I signed up during the book launch to the ACQ group. I don't— it's not like I'm doing a specific hook or anything. I'm literally just hopping on. Doing a house tour, saying some things about Kauai, and then hopping off. So it's not very strategic.

Phase 1 is do it.

Okay.

Phase 2 is once you do it, you'll realize which ones work better, and then you'll start getting better.

Okay.

Because here's what ends up happening. You'll commit to the action, right? You'll do it, and then all of a sudden you're like, well, shoot, I'm spending all this time doing this. I might as well take 20 minutes to just look at good hooks to start with. And then the next week or two, you'll start with good hooks and then you'll do it and be like, oh my God, this is so much better. And then you'll think, man, that was just with 20 minutes. I wonder if I spent an hour a week just prepping a little bit more for each of these. And all of a sudden you'll get even more. And then this is how you get in the game.

Gotcha.

Gotcha. Gotcha. But can I ask one more question? I don't know how much I know. I got it. How would I document? Because yesterday's workshop was so good. Document the aspirational achievements.

You know, um, for you it's already done. It's already done for you. The houses do the work.

Oh, interesting. That is the answer. Like, am I solution aware or am I product aware? Like, I wasn't sure where I fell.

So I think for you, again, like, what— like, you showing sick houses is going to be like— I just— I don't even want to get into that stuff for you right now. Like, The reason that there are so many real estate reality shows is because people like looking at nice houses. Now, the difficulty of what's going to happen to this— let me just play out what's going to happen next is that if you do this and you're consistent, you're going to get a lot of people who start following you because people— because people in general, people who are broke and people who are rich like looking at nice houses. That's why those work as shows, because broke people look at them too, right? So we just need to make sure that when you start getting these leads, because the next thing you're overwhelmed, like the next call we would have if we were to fast forward this to 3 months from now, you're like, Oh my God, it worked, but it worked too well. And I've got too many leads that are like, that are broke versus the ones that are good. Right. And so then we're going to have to put a little bit of a triage process in place. And at that point though, your sales commission should already have gone up by a decent amount and then you can afford somebody to just work your DMs for you.

Okay, gotcha.

Cool.

I'm following.

And nice thing is you can have somebody overseas do that. So you don't even have to like, that's not going to be a super high expense, you know, $500,000 a month and have a full-time VA who's trained on, you know, a, a simple, you know, 6 or 7 question script. Very easy.

Do I, do I go live on Facebook or IG?

Both.

Okay. We gotta figure that out. I've never gone live on IG.

I promise it's one, it's one Google search away. It's one Google search away.

I know.

Okay, cool. Yeah, like you can like quadruple your business by doing one thing every day. I feel like we should just do that.

Okay. I love this because I was trying to figure out what one thing to do. So this is very helpful.

This is a good one thing. I feel very confident in this one thing. Okay, cool.

Okay. Thank you. I'll talk to you again in a few months.

Yep.

All right. You bet.

All right. Thanks, Adam.

You bet.

Take care.

Bye.

This is a great question that Crystal just brought up, by the way, everybody. Like when there's so many tactics that you have that you're like, how can I, you know, I could make this better. This is something else I could do is like, just start. And the thing is, is that you will, like, by doing— by starting and doing a lot of volume, you will feel the pain of doing a lot of volume with very little output. Then what will happen is you're like, man, if I'm putting all this time into it, I'm going to start getting better. And so most people try to, like, they have this, this fallacy of the perfect pick. Like, I have to make the perfect thing or it's not worth it. It's like, no, like, start, realize that it's going to suck because you're putting all this time into it, and then you will be pulled because you've already made the commitment and you keep keep your commitments to yourself, you'll feel pulled to get more efficient at the thing. And then Crystal, for example, will start listening to more and more of my content-related stuff and be like, okay, I'm gonna start working on these hooks to make them, you know, work better. I'm gonna start, people seem to like the outside of the house more than if I start with the inside of the house, or maybe they like the view first rather than, you know, the bathroom, whatever. Like she'll figure out, and Crystal, if you're still watching this, what I would recommend doing is that when you have your lives, like there's so many content agencies. Again, this is a little bit of an investment for you, but like there's so many content agencies that'll just clip portions, especially if it's like tours and stuff. And then you can do trial reels that you can post up to 5 a day for the same reel where I would be like, okay, let me start with, you know, different first 3 seconds. So I'm gonna start with the outside of the house. I'm gonna start with walking the front door. I'm gonna start with the view. I'm gonna start it with, you know, the, the amenities or whatever it is, and maybe a different verbal and visual hook. And then once you have those 5, you take the best one, you post it to your main page. Okay. Jack Malt, how can I get hot leads for high ticket executive? Okay. Can I, someone pause me, my, my little chatty chat. Okay. Hi, how, how can I hot leads for high ticket executive clarity service? It's a science-based service involving photography, science-based service involving photography. Can you scroll up on my— my guys? Okay, here we go. I have 10 years of photo experience, high ticket executive clarity. I don't even know what that means. So I'm going to say something, Jack. So if like, you know, hopefully you're live. Well, I guess you are live, but I will— I'll bet you, man, like you'll get way more leads if people can understand what you do. Like, I'm just being super real. Like, like, explain it to a 5-year-old. Like, I take pictures of your face that make you look better and get you higher responses to your resume outreach. So it's just like, I'm, I'm relatively confused by what you do. And I think that if I'm confused and I look at a lot of different businesses, prospects will also be confused. And so I think this is a messaging issue right off the bat. Which is just make it very like, be clear, not clever. Like, that is like, that is the issue. Be clear, not clever. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's what I would do. And then from there, you're going to have to let more people know about your stuff. So you're going to have to pick outreach, you have to pick content or pick ads. My recommendation, especially if you want to be a thought leader, is going to probably be on the content side. That's where the attention is. And so I would start demonstrating to the highest degree possible SPCL, which is what I started this, this whole thing with. And if you can't do it for yourself, then you want to use or borrow the status of the people that you're helping. Next caller is Ann. Ann? That's where the attention is. Ann, what's up? Demonstrating that it's possible. And if you can't do it for yourself, then you want to use or borrow the status of the And yeah, there we go. All right. I'm okay. So you're on Hormozy Hotline. Let's rock and roll. So you got $200,000 per month in revenue. Yes.

Yes.

All right. Ad spend zero. Industry is medical. Men's sexual function. Ooh, this might be spicy indeed. Men's sexual function. Okay. And then your offer is lifestyle stem cells. Okay, so you're doing like, yeah, you're doing full like injections and all sorts of stuff. Okay, cool. And then we've got constraint is needs more qualified leads. Okay. Are you a doctor?

Yes, I'm a medical doctor and we have a medical clinic that focuses mainly on sexual restoration. And yeah, we do stem cells and Also shockwave therapy, multiple medical treatment along with hormone replacement therapy and peptide therapy.

Dope. Okay, so is this brick and mortar? I'm guessing.

Yes.

Okay, got it. Where are you out of?

Fredericksburg, Virginia. It's right outside of D.C. Fredericksburg.

Okay, cool. So, okay, so talk to me. So what's the, what's the issue? You want more leads?

Yeah. So we have all my leads come from my YouTube channel and also word of mouth. And we have 150,000 subscribers on YouTube channel and we have an application funnel through there. But we're getting leads, but we're— when we're— and our team converts at 65%, but we're not getting the quantity of hot— of Qualified leads that can afford our services ranging from $15,000 to $25,000. Yeah. Because, I mean, they get results within 5 days. You know, we have a great offer. We're doing everything we do.

The best thing is they can tell very clearly whether it works or not.

Yeah, exactly.

Do you do before and after pictures?

We want to get more qualified. Say that again?

I said, do you do before and after pictures? I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Okay.

Well, we have testimonials.

Yeah, sure. Man, look at that thing. Just, just triumphant. Okay.

Got it.

So you need to get more leads. YouTube's the primary channel and people who are coming in who are pop— like, do people fly to you?

Yes, we have people coming in, actually international. We're having somebody from Hong Kong.

What percentage? What percentage are local versus international?

Oh, I mean, U.S., it's probably like 90%.

Oh no, like if you're saying U.S., I'm gonna say most people that are traveling to you, like if— I mean, most people are traveling to you.

Yeah, I would say Probably that'll be 70%.

Yeah, done. Good enough for me. Okay, got it. So, so how many, how many pieces of YouTube content are you putting out per week?

I only do two long-form videos.

Yeah.

And so my, my team cut off the long-form video into shorts. Okay. Uh, which we post daily. Yeah, that's it.

Got it. Do you have, do you have the 5 CTAs that I mentioned earlier of like those 5 places that you can do calls to action? Because that's like an immediate thing you can do that can just generate more leads. So one-third of the way through videos, we've been doing that. Okay.

Yeah, we've been doing that.

Okay.

Got it. So, but you're doing all 5?

Yeah. As of yesterday, we were doing 4, but now we're doing 5.

Okay.

Got it. There we go. Hey, I'll take it. I'll take it. A little 20% improvement. Or 25%.

Okay.

So I mean, you kind of have— you're in a— you basically have two paths, right? So path one is how can we— like, I don't think you necessarily need to make more content. Like, you could, but I would rather you— like, how much time do you spend prepping the packaging and the thumbnails and the headlines for the content that you make?

Oh, I don't do that. My video editor does that. I think he probably spent maybe like 8 to maybe 8 to 16 hours because he does, he does do 2 a week. So I would just say maybe 2 days.

Well, on the prep or on the post?

Prep and post. So I produce like 4 at a time and he does, he just put a couple shit like, you know.

Yeah. So every other week you do 4 videos? Yeah, got it. Okay, so I'll tell you this, like, you're, you're a more experienced YouTuber. It's, it's, it's likely that the biggest improvements that you're going to get are on, on better rather than more for where you're currently at. And it's going to come down to, like, I mean, some of the tools I said yesterday, like oneof10.com is a good tool for looking at packaging. And saying like, how can we look at other outlier, similar outlier packaging for videos that are either in the space or adjacent to it? And then how can we match our thumbnail headline and introduction? Do you, do you script out your introductions?

Yeah.

You are scripting your introductions?

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, I, I actually use like AI to help me with the hooks and the intro, but most of it is really my content that I put out. And the one other thing about our channel is that it's grown because I was talking generalized like ED and I give everything away. So now I really, I, for the last 3 videos, I've been making more for entrepreneurs and executives because I wanted to target more of high ticket clients. And our views like absolutely plummeted down to like hundreds. Instead of 1,000. So that, that was one of the things I wanted to ask you. Is that something that we need, we, we should be worried about since we're kind of target the message more for, you know, high, high ticket clientele?

So I'll tell you how I would make an adjustment or a test like this. So I never want to threaten my core business. And so if I have 2 videos of a certain style and packaging that are working, I don't want to break that because like all of a sudden your revenue could cut in half and that would be not fun. So I would prefer you keep your 2 videos a week that are your kind of standard, wider, et cetera thing, and then do an additional video that's gonna be the new thing, because in that way you can guarantee that you're gonna make more, and that way you can test it and not feel like you're risking the whole business to make this test, 'cause it's the primary way of getting leads for you, and so I would really not wanna risk the entirety of my, my business for a test. That's a big test.

Why? I love that. I can definitely do that because I was thinking about doing more, but you said do better.

I do think that you can do better, but I think that if you're going to run this test on trying to attract higher level customers, I think that I would just add that in addition to the, the, the 2 videos you're doing. So then they'll bump you to 3 and you're going to probably get benefits from both more, more volume. And I still think, and maybe your video editor can watch the replay of this, but like I would strongly recommend scripting out both verbally, and this is the part that people miss visually because you have a very physical profession, obviously, like you can't show certain things on your YouTube channel, but like you in a, you know, a smock or not smock, whatever the white lab coat, right? You got the, you got the coat and you've got some tools and some machines and you've got some of those props that look like body parts behind you. I think all of those things kind of set the frame and proof, promise, plan. I don't know if you are using that as the setup for the introduction, but proof, promise, plan. And if you want, you can introduce pain in there as well as kind of our 4-step way that we introduce all videos. And so I'd make sure that I have a sentence for each of those P's. And if you have a picture which kind of gives you a visual roadmap of what they're going to get, I think that that will also likely further aid in retention. So those are kind of like the quote, better things. And you can do that for all 3 of the videos you're going to make. But number 1 is you're going to go from 2 to 3. The 3rd one's going to be experimental. You're going to tighten up and script the introductions. And the packages should be picked from outliers rather than just like something you find interesting. Like we already know that this packaging, this, the way that this image and the headline work are likely going to, to convert.

Yeah, I love that. That's That's really good. I, what, what do you think about advertising on like private jets and so forth? I would advise to do that to attract the clientele that we want.

I mean, you can try it again. I would just put that in my experimental bucket.

Okay. Yeah.

I mean, if you fly private as is, then yeah, just on your next private, you know, on your next flight, just record.

Okay. Yeah, no, I love that. So make more content, but make better content.

Yeah. And add the third one.

We have a funnel. Can I ask you one more question about the funnel? Now, the funnel that we had, I was listening to you talking to another lady, and it was— our funnel is actually an application funnel to book a call with our sales team. But if we are looking at more attracting more premium buyers, should we still continue doing that funnel? Should we open up more on the higher part of the funnel?

I think you should drive more into like, just put more in. This is why we're gonna do it. Like, I don't think you should, like, you're converting 65% of your leads. Your conversion process is not the constraint of this. So maybe there's things you can improve, but I, that's not where my focus would go. My focus would 100% be on making more and better content on YouTube. I do think that like, I would say like, do this experiment, improve the packaging and the hooks up front. The next, The next thing would be running ads, but I just feel like the nature of this business is so like trust-driven that I think organic, I mean, I think you've, I mean, you've already gotten the success you have because I think you started with the right strategy. I really just wanna see like, how do you get to a million views or sorry, a million subscribers on your channel? Like that would be like my mission. How do we get, how many views a month you're getting? Views a year?

Yeah. How many views? Well, it depends. If we put out a pretty good one, it's probably about 10,000. Enough is our usual. Yeah. Uh, depending on the video, but the last 3 on, I talk about executive and the intersection with sexual health. We got like hundreds. Yeah.

Yeah. I, I, I think that you have a ton of room if you're getting 10,000 per video. I think you have a ton of room for improvement, like especially based on the nature of what you have, like. Like you, like you could for sure be at $100,000, $250,000 per video for sure. No question.

Well, thank you. Yeah, we have about 10 videos that are almost a million.

Yeah, right now.

So, yeah. So we may lean in more on those topics.

Okay.

Rock and roll. Love it. Yeah. Just repeat your, repeat your orders. All right. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

So Mike, hey, 16. I do AI automation, helping businesses save time, et cetera. I currently get leads through Facebook, Instagram, and email outreach. Advice on scale, volume only. Thanks. Yeah, dude, you're doing, you're doing too much. You're doing like, pick one of those channels to start out with and just do more on that one channel. So I think you're probably spread too thin if you're like trying to sell, trying to market, trying to deliver to customers, and you're also on 3 different channels. I would say do more, but on one of those, you can get better. Cool. Sweet. Rock and roll. That was an easy one. Wedding filmmaker here. Majority of leads are word of mouth, but I don't know if it's really as scalable as I would like to be. Currently at $10,000 a month in revenue. Do you recommend I go all in or find a better model? I would have to know way more about the model. Honestly, we have a home health agency, pre-revenue, probably opening in a month. What are some of the advices in this industry? When we rely on insurance for payment. Can you scroll up again, guys? So much. I don't know where that was. Shit. All right, I'll do it. I'll do another one. So what acquisition system would you, if you would sell ClickUp project management systems for marketing agencies currently doing $15,000 a month something clients through Upwork? Is it— can you scroll down a little so I can see the word is Getting clients.

Okay.

Getting clients through Upwork and cold email. I'm guessing you have a pricing issue because someone who's going to be implementing a CRM is likely already doing— like, if they have so much work, they have to have like a project management system. You probably need to be charging way more. And so either you're going after the wrong customers, but it doesn't make sense because if you're actually implementing this stuff into their business and like they're probably bigger customers. So I think you're probably mispriced, number one. I would imagine Upwork is also probably not the best place to find customers because it's like people who are like absolutely the cheapest. So I think you're, I'll bet you that your mindset is super skewed to like Upwork leads who are like cheap as hell. I would be doubling down on cold email and be looking at like $6,000 plus, you know, per month retainers and probably selling projects that are in like the, We did one implementation like this. Well, how much did ours cost? 60? 30? Didn't we implement some sort of project management system inside of Media? 40. So ours was 40. So to give you an idea, so that was like just for one project and they had more than one customer. All right. So you probably are just like wildly undercharging. And I think cold email would be the best way to double down on. Hopefully that helps, Max. All right, McKenzie, you are on Hormozy Hotline. Okay, monthly revenue is $100,000. Hello, McKenzie? Hey, McKenzie, can you hear me? What's up? $100,000 a month.

Hey man, how's it going?

Rock and roll. Good. You got cold outreach. Got it. You're doing your custom apparel. Okay. Custom apparel. Interesting. Offer is apparel for colleges and college organizations. So like fraternities and stuff. Yep. All right. All right. Colleges. Okay. And then the constraint is cold outbound works economically, but too many unqualified leads. Okay. So does that mean that we're— how are you getting your leads right now?

Just scraping. So basically we're just trying to find contacts for these organizations primarily through like Instagram and then we just reach out to all of them cold.

Okay. What's the model?

As far as like, how do we make our money? So basically we handle the design side for all the apparel and then we outsource the manufacturing. And so we're just kind of acting as a middleman and mark that up. And so on all of our orders, we average about 35% gross margin.

Yeah. So is that $100,000 a month your slice or is that— That's top line. Okay. Got it. So you got 35-ish of gross margin left over?

Yeah.

On 100? Okay.

And so what's happening when we reach out to these different organizations is basically it's very hard to segment between who we think is going to end up being a big customer with like a high lifetime value. We have some customers who are going to spend, you know, $20,000 a year with us versus others that are going to spend $1,500 a year. And it's just really hard for us to identify like What are the markers that make a customer in which group, you know?

Yeah. So, yeah. And you've, and you, is there a reason that, I mean, you focus on colleges just because they were easy to reach out to decision makers?

Yeah. So that was kind of, that was going to be the second part. Basically what I found so far is like we're reaching out to the colleges. We've got the process really dialed in, so we have like a pretty good conversion rate. Like it's easy for us to acquire customers. But what I actually notice is that's what we focus our outbound on. But the AOV for the colleges is maybe like $1,200, $1,500. We have other customer segments that are spending way more per order and per year. So let's talk about those segments.

We just haven't really figured out the acquisition as much. Okay. So what are those segments?

Construction is a big one and also summer camps. But the thing with those, I kind of run into the same issue because, you know, I might reach out to 2 construction companies. One of them, they don't order like any apparel and then another one orders like, you know, $50,000 a year. So I'm still just trying to figure out how to know.

I just want to reframe it a little bit for you. So if you know that like, okay, well, construction seems like on average they're worth like 25 times more or something like that. That sound close to right?

Yeah.

Okay. So if you have some like duds and some good ones, but they're worth 25 times more than I'd rather just do the duds and good ones play with in general people that are worth 25 times more.

Yeah. But I mean, I'm running into the same issue either way. So it's just basically targeting higher value customers.

Yeah. But I mean, I think like I'll say it differently. Like This is a feature, not a bug. Like this is just part of what, what you have to do with outreach and like list segmentation and list enrichment is like part of what makes outreach effective.

Yeah. So do you think like basically on the last livestream, you know, I kind of went through the 5 Ms and I realized it is data that's holding us back from being able to scale.

Okay.

So I've already started, you you know, having my devs like build out different stuff to help us track this data better. And I'm kind of wondering like, should I be focusing a ton of my time on trying to figure out like and identify the segments, you know, more specifically like what makes this construction company spend more money or should I be focusing on volume?

No, get the data right. Like if you take a longer perspective on the business, right? You knowing who your customer is, is going to be data that you absolutely have to have no matter what. And so why would we delay something that's going to give us so much leverage on our messaging, our offer, our channels? Like, like picking the customer is the first and most important thing that you can do in the business. And then your offer comes from the customer. Like the one regret that I have in the Offers book is that I would have added in Your First Customer, which is one, I think the first chapter in Lost Chapters. I would have added that as the first chapter of the offers book because so many people just like, you have to start with the customer and then from the customer, we reverse engineer the offer.

Yeah. And that's like one of the reasons why we target like fraternities and sororities is because on a per unit basis, like they spend more per shirt, but that, that, you know, you order 50 shirts at a time versus 5,000.

Yeah. So all we have to look at, like, we just have to look at absolute profit per order. And then I would just like, that's, that should be like North Star. So what is it? So if we have, you know, 50 shirts with, you know, 50% margins versus 5,000 shirts with 20% margins, we'd still rather have 5,000 shirts because you're a middleman anyways.

Yeah. It doesn't take any more work.

Right. So like, yeah. Right. So like, let's go sell the bigger people and expect that we're going to have some that are smaller. But if we're shooting for 5,000, orders, your small ones all of a sudden are going to be 500 orders instead of 50.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And I, you know, honestly, like, even though we don't have the data yet, that's kind of after the last couple of calls, like, I realized that is the direction we need to go in.

Yeah.

I'm trying to figure out how we should make that transition because, you know, it's like you always say, like, more than better and different. And I feel like I could be doing more and better, but I'm choosing to do different because it's just a better model.

Yeah. Well, you're, I mean, you're reaching out to me. So, I mean, I make these rules, I can break them. So you're in an instance where like, it's, you should, unless you had a way that it was like, I'll say it differently. Like you could for sure double outreach and the business would probably double. And it's just like, I think there's just so much more meat in these other industries. 'Cause like, I think you'll, I don't wanna say you'll cap this out, 'cause like you could for sure become like, oh, maybe I'll think about it like this. These are the conditions under which I would stick with what you're currently doing, right? I would stick with what you're currently doing if you knew that those college customers would become lifetime customers. If you knew that every single one of those college organizations would just always order, you know, $1,500 a year worth of gross profit, and you just knew that you were keeping 80 to 90% per year, then this business would just continue to stack. And then over time you build this kind of like monopoly within the colleges of like the default t-shirt guy, right? That would be the condition under which I would, I would continue to pursue the colleges. And maybe you could just say like, okay, well, how do we retain revenue better? How do we get these people to reorder? Can we reach out to them more regularly so that they're buying 4 times a year instead of 2, etc., etc.? That would be that path. But you were—

I would say that we're kind of in that situation.

Okay.

I mean, we've been doing this for a few years now. We don't have like really any churn, like our churn level is like extremely low and we're very proactive, like you said, trying to get people to order more. Like we're trying to bring up the order frequency, bring up the AOV. But at the end of the day, it's like I could, I could probably just leave this running, like leave my operator just continuing that side of the business and then maybe shift my time towards focusing on these other, you know, targets.

Yeah.

Building up that acquisition system.

I hear you. I, I, I'm going to— I would do the other thing that's bigger. I'll be honest, I would do that. And that's normally not the advice that I would give because like the for sure bet, like if I had to say, how do I guarantee that you go from $100K a month to, you know, $250K a month? I would say, dude, just triple what you're currently doing. That would be for sure my bet because you're keeping the customers, you have, you know, gross profit that's there and it'll just continue to stack. That would be my, like, if we had to bet. But if you're like, I want to get to, you know, $20 million a year or something like that, I don't know what your, what are your goals? I should have asked that earlier. What are your goals?

That's my goal. I'm trying to get to like $10, $20.

Yeah. Then I think you just need, you're going to, you just want to get, you want to make, get paid more per. And it's the same number. It's the same level of work.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you like, you could do more, but then we'd be asking the question, okay, how do we go from your current outreach level volume to like, how do we truly, and I mean this truly, like How do we actually do 10 to 50 times the outreach? Like you could do that, that would be still probably less risk.

It's not feasible with this target market.

Okay, well then if that's that, then if we go metrics and then market, which is the next M, right? Then I would rather go construction that's bigger whales if that's the market that you feel better with. I don't normally say that, but I think that it's probably what makes sense. And here's the great part. If you do it, and you just fall flat on your face and you find out something that like actually makes construction suck, you can always just go back to the college and then just, and then say, okay, well, my, my for sure path of, of growing this business is like, I will 10x my outreach. That is your for sure path. You can always go back and do that. But if you have an opportunity where you can get, literally you're talking about 50 short orders versus 5,000, it's 100x leverage, then I'm like, I really want to look at something like that.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Cool.

And I guess like I just need to treat it as like a test. Like I don't need to like shut down my business and start doing construction.

No, like, God, no.

You know, start building out another channel.

Yeah. I don't normally say this, but when I see a 100x difference and you're at the size you're at, I'd rather you, I'd rather you look there.

Yeah, yeah, bro. That's like, that's what I'm thinking. Like, I've been thinking the same thing you're saying, but I'm like, oh, this goes against all the advice.

I know. I mean, that's why you call. That's why we're here.

Cool.

Feel all right?

Yeah. All right, sweet. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do then.

Just don't burn down the existing business. Have your operator still run it. Make sure it's still good. The things that you want to make sure that you— like, what are the things you want to validate for the new market is you want to make sure as fast as possible that they reorder. As long as you have that, then you're gonna have revenue retention. You're good to go.

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, okay, let me ask you this. This is, I, I, when I view this business, like the reason that we're able to penetrate the college market so well is because, you know, we target all of our marketing around that. Like if you go to our website, that, that's the avatar we're trying to serve.

Yeah.

We're, I've considered basically building out, maybe have like different websites for different niches. So like. I just replicate everything we did for college but into construction and kind of serve a whole nother avatar. I don't know if that makes sense, but like build a customer journey around them. And I just, I don't know if that's maybe like not the smartest way to scale is doing like more.

No, I don't want you to do like many different verticals. I definitely, no, no, I want you to commit to one of these things. And so we're like, this is a potential 100x in terms of leverage. For this type of avatar, which is the only— like, if you were like, they're worth 3 times as much, I'd be like, screw it, dude, just do more of the college thing. When you said $50,000 in order versus $1,500, like, that is a very big difference, and it's the same level of work for you. So at that point, that's why I'm like, I'm like, it is only because of the unique characteristics of that thing. The only other thing that we'd want to make sure is that you have revenue retention there. Once you have that, there's more than enough construction firms for you to get to $20 million a year, no question.

Yeah, 100%.

Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense.

All right.

Okay.

Rock and roll.

But don't, don't spread it out. Like, focus my ass on one.

Yeah. I don't want you to have like 100 verticals. That's not the point. You like, you knew colleges, like every one of these ones is gonna have different nuances, different acquisition things, different sales product. You have to learn all that stuff again. But like, I'm, I'm only kind of like signing off on this because of the crazy difference in value and the virtually no difference in operational effort. So it's like, you don't have to relearn how to, How to be a middleman for shirt ordering, right? It's like it's the same thing. We're just targeting a different person and then we only have to figure out one thing, which is how to acquire that customer versus the other. And once we have that, the rest of the business works the same. We make, you know, 20, 30, 40 times more. That's why I'm saying I think it makes sense.

Yeah, that's exactly right. That is the only difference. All right, cool, man.

That's perfect.

That's a game plan.

All right, rock and roll. Appreciate you, man.