https://www.listennotes.com/e/9ea4bc2e22354e44b890c7d7e3811491

If you want to get higher response rates, you got to get in the inbox first. Guess what? I always tell people this. If my awelita, you know, messages me and or emails me, I'm gonna open that email. I don't give a what the subject line is, right? Most people that you talk to about cold email today will say cold email sucks. It doesn't work. And I go, really? The subject line is the most important part of the email. No, it's not.

It's actually getting the email in the inbox. The second most important part of the email. if you are struggling with outreach, demand generation, getting meetings with people, come up at the halfway mark, raise your hand, make sure your camera's on, make sure your problem somewhat relates to what we're doing here. And we'll go from there. And again, if you want to join the audience section, producer@rb2b.com, we would love to have you up 579. All right, let's dive into it. We've been we've been talking about audience count, getting people up here to pitch. So, Andy, I mean, inboxes these days completely flooded. This is no, this is no secret to anybody. You work with a ton of different businesses. What is the biggest mistake you see when people are trying to cut through that noise when they first come to you? What is, what is those, what are those biggest mistakes they're making?

Man, there's, there's a lot. There's a lot of people do right. There's a lot of people do wrong. And it's kind of like a we'll get it. It's like a mix of things, right? And so, like, I think email today, too, if we take a step back and look, like, the big picture, and we're. I'm just rolling into it, y'all, so that we can get the most value out of this for everyone. Value per second, right? Time to Value per second. That's what we're gonna do. So when you think about it, it's. It's a lot of pieces put together now. So what do you have to think about when you're doing these cold email things? And I know we'll get to the sequences and all that first, right? But, like. there's a lot of steps before that to make this work. Having been early at outreach, I've spent probably way too much time with email. I dream about email and servers and all this stuff. It's pretty sad. So yeah, I've spent 10 years building email, right? But the thing to think about is there's a lot of things like one, your email infrastructure, right? And so like a lot of people, and this might be like, you know, 101 to some people on here, but more times than not, it's not, you know, a lot of people haven't got this far yet. So I think one thing that we want to think about is email infrastructure when we get started here. What is email infrastructure? How do you set up? So you're not, you're sending only 10, 20, 30 emails per domain, right? There's a lot of people that do this for, can do this for you. There's a lot of services that you can use that will do this for you. Hyper tide is one. So everyone write this down. If you want to get inboxes for instantly smart lead, There's HyperTie, there's MailReef, there's Premium Inboxes. Those are the three there. So again, we're trying to get you a lot of value here if you want to set that up. That is the first place you want to start.

And just to clarify for, yeah. And just to clarify for everybody too, Andy, we're talking about infrastructure for sending emails that look like they're coming directly from your inbox. We're not talking about MailChimp. We're not talking about, you know, HubSpot emails or code emails. They actually look like singular Gmail, like I'm saying.

They're actually gonna, yeah, they're actually gonna look at emails, or they're gonna send emails and get in the primary inbox. That's the goal, right? My friend Jesse has a good saying, like, I'll back to the primary, right? That is something that you want to focus on. There's a bunch of people out there that can set it up for you, but it looks like Outlook. Yes, Jacob, it looks like it's coming from your Gmail, your Outlook, you know, the person on the other side, Only the gurus can really tell or if you're good with this email game, you can tell what it is, but like most people can't.

Right?

Or like if the domain is kind of weird looking, then sure. HyperTide, Mark, Premium Inboxes and MailReef. Those are kind of the top three right now that you want to take a look at. So that's infrastructure, right? And I say everyone start there. What does that do? That helps you MailDosa, I think is one. Yeah, two, Uncle. But you wanna start there because why am I starting here y'all? And you're probably like, this is boring, this is like IT guy stuff. And it kinda is, it's probably boring as hell, but I'll tell you, if you wanna get higher response rates, you gotta get in the inbox first. Because if your email, everyone says, oh, the subject line is the most important part of the email. No, it's not, it's actually getting the email in the inbox. That's the most important part of the email. The second most important part of the email is the name it's coming from. not the subject line. So the subject line does it.

Yeah.

I love that you say that.

Yes.

That's so true.

It is the name. It is first. It's that it hits the actual inbox. That's the most important. Second is who it's coming from. Because guess what? I always tell people this. If my abuelita, you know, messages me and your emails me, I'm gonna open that email. I don't give a what the subject line is.

Right?

Like non-spanish speakers. That means his grandmother.

Thank you for translating. I can do it in 10 other languages. If you're like, no, I'm getting it.

Did you know what my secret email sender name is?

What is that?

Adam Robinson. I always send emails as Adam Robinson.

Oh, okay. So we know it's Pete in the background. I was wondering why there was some weird stuff going on there. Subliminal messages in there, dude. So, yeah, everyone. So, you know, when it comes down to getting high reply rates, the copy is like way downstream, right? The copy is very important and there's one of the most important parts. But first you have to worry about, okay, is it making it in an inbox? Who's it from? Does this person want to hear from me? And you'll hear Adam harp about, you know, personal brand all day long. You'll hear me harp about it all day long. The reason we do it, and part of the reason you do the personal brand is so that when you get an When you send an email to someone, they recognize the name, okay? And that is what boosts the open rates. Okay, so this is why I'm telling you, it's not like one simple answer, hey, use this email template and you're good to go, right? If anyone tells you that run, that's not it. It's not the email, I'll share with you email templates, but I also want to give context behind it, right? Should we answer some questions here?

Yeah, someone said, how do you feel about company name as the sender? So we're still in the whole sender, what is this name piece? so we're talking about having a name from the sender that is recognizable, that increases once it gets to someone's inbox, increases the likelihood that honestly they even read the subject line.

Yeah, it's so if I understand correctly the question here is do we use company name or personal name? Right?

Correct.

If you're a cool ass brand like Liquid Death, you can use your company name. If you don't have a cool brand like that yet, Use your personal name, right? Like, and this is why brand is gonna be one of the long lasting moats, right? Because once again, people are gonna wanna open emails from brands that they like. So this is, you know, this is a big part of it. But going back to it, people buy from people, just like the LinkedIn feed. Do you wanna see company posts? No, you wanna see posts from Adam and Sally and Johnny and Lucy, right? Like, you're following people. at this point. So there, yeah, go ahead, Pete. I think there's a couple more questions.

Yeah, someone said, do you recommend connecting with CEOs on LinkedIn before sending emails with your personal name? So is there any primer, any sort of connection primer to that first email going out?

Yeah, there's a couple systems you can implement y'all for sure. Adam actually has a system that he does. I think a few people have a system here, but Adam, you want to tell me about your system on how you do that part?

Okay, so this is. I work with Alec Paul, and I'm not actually doing this right now, but it was the plan until my LinkedIn blew up so hard. But the plan is get your dream 100 or whatever it is, right? Your target list of people you're reaching out to run an outbound connect campaign of 10 or 20 per day. Most people accept connection requests if it's even somewhat relevant, right? And then what the Alec Paul playbook is, is you start creating content, get better and better at it. If someone accepts your connection request, they will get served your content. And then that warms them up over time. 60 days later, he goes in and asks what's up, and people think that, you're a celebrity. That's literally his entire.

Uhoh. Are you.

Is that Adam?

Oh, not show.

This is live.

We. This is live.

The only reason I'm learning is because from. Actually, you do that until enough inbounds really quick. Is my internet.

Yeah, your internet sucks. Yeah, yeah, your internet sucked. Maybe give it a little break, dude.

This is like a disaster. I have Google, dude, I have Google Fiber in it. It is like, I don't understand. There's something with the Wi-Fi or something. It's crazy. I have two megabytes or I have two gigabytes up down and I can't.

Get this webinar thing to work. So Tom Lynch, everyone wants more bandwidth.

He'll sell you some Tom Lynch in the comments. People are saying you're a robot.

You might be an AI. I think this is an elaborate.

Anyway, I gotta solve this problem this week. Yeah, get the IT guys, man. Get them in there. So, yes, strategies really. So to answer your question, sorry, Pete, for cutting off there. To answer your question, y'all, yes, you want to nurture them, right? Now, this is going to be a sick thing you guys should also understand, which is, I'm surprised a lot of people don't understand this, and this is why you add people and then post content and then email them, right? and this is high level, so we don't expect you all to figure it out now. Feel free to DM me on LinkedIn if you need more help or anything. But when you think about, there's this thing called the large market formula, right? What is the large market formula? Well, it is that pyramid you've probably seen before, and it tells you how many people are ready to buy your product probably at one time.

Right.

How, what percentage of people do you think are ready to buy your product in any given moment? What percentage? Three. Mark knows the answer. Mark. Yeah. There you go. Three to five. Exactly. I thought I was, all right, you guys all know this, you were on. They all saw that post. Dang it. Yeah, they all saw my post. So there we go. Yes.

Yeah.

Three to 5% somewhere around there, y'all. So when you think about it, what game are we playing? We're playing the nurture game, right? Like whoever nurtures the best wins the best. You're in that. You're playing the nurture game over and over and over again. So to answer your question, create it with a system where you can connect with these people. Some may connect, some may not. But that's definitely going to help, visibility wise, recognition of the name when you do that, right? And add fuel on the fire, what do you do? You post content with insights from your industry. Not, here's my lunch today, not, here's a picture of my cat, even though, was it Abdul who had his cat? Abdul had his cat recently or whatever, stuff like that. that's what I would. That's what I would say and recommend. We're getting a little bit away from email, but just to kind of give you guys an idea where it all ties in, right, from that standpoint.

So.

Okay, so we've got nothing.

Ali, love cats.

We've got kind of the infrastructure you basically, like, for a while, I think all of us were running these super high touch point, like 20 touch point cadences with all these different, you know. nurturing and whatever and follow-ups and circling back and all this other nonsense. Why do you believe that's so ineffective? Is it just the sheer volume and, like, repetition of those types of language that's just creating white noise? Is there something else under the surface that you see? Why is everyone's. Why does literally everybody talk at this?

So if we go back in. I was part of the one that helped create the problem, actually. So my apologies to everyone. But I'm gonna blame myself. I. Sorry. I. I helped create the problem that now I'm telling you how to solve. But the problem is, is, like, early in the sales engagement days, you know, Outreach days before there was a million sales engagement and the other ones plowed on, what happened is you could. Just literally throw a bunch of touch points into a sequence and guess and be like, I know that I email and get them with 15 touch points. They're going to eventually book a meeting with me. We had it down to a science. Literally, we were plugging in SDRs because we were like, we know that if they sequence 100 people a day, we're going to get four meetings. It was like down to a, like a science, right? It was crazy. It was, it was just a money printer.

So what happens is that's the predictable revenue draw.

That's the predictable revenue model. Just, but it's like annoy people enough and they'll frickin do it. Well, guess what? What happens when everyone starts to do that same thing?

Right.

And everyone catches on and now every business is doing that. What happens? Well, people get inundated and they're like, well, there's too much coming at me. What do I make happen? Right. And so I think what we're getting is, is essentially we're still in that mindset.

Right.

And Adam talks about this with predictable revenue. But we're still in that mindset and probably a lot of sales leaders that are out there today, which, you know, I was, I was one of these people. That's how we learned originally. Right. And that's what we're like, okay, that's what we know how to do. And what do we do? We go in and we probably are like, well, we know we do what's easiest and what we've done before.

Right.

And that's just human nature. So that could probably be the case. Right. And you're seeing a lot of that right now. And we can go into what I think the solution is or what, what, what it's been a solution for me, a bunch of my customers and my friends and people. cool and all that. But that's what I say where we're at with this stuff, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

We're gonna dive into that in just a second. Just that whole.

Okay.

Actually, this is probably a good time to. Let's answer a couple questions.

Okay.

We're gonna bring up somebody for our unfuck my startup section, and then I want to do your whole strategy in full, all three steps on the second half of the show. I think instead of introducing step one and then. you know, let's see it that way.

Yeah.

Okay. All right. So to start, if anybody is having, is struggling to connect with their ICP, their audience on email or just any outreach, you know, really any, yeah, I guess outreach strategy, raise your hand, we'll bring you up, we'll have you tell us about your problem and your business for two minutes, and then we'll spend three minutes providing you feedback from Andy and the panelists here. so if you are interested, put up some hands once we call you up, too. If you could put your, your URL into the chat, that would be great. So, John, we're gonna have our producer, John, select one of these folks, bring them up. The questions are ripping.

We got four hands. Let's get up to 10 hands and then we'll randomly pick one. So it's 10 seconds shot that you join. You join the unfuck my startup segment. All right, 2-4-6. We need three more hands, y'all. Three more hands.

So what's your opinion on warming up inboxes? Hearing mixed things. I hear you have to, Andy?

Yeah, for sure. Warm them up. We won't get into technicalities, but yeah, you want to do that for the Google algorithms and the Outlook. Yeah, definitely warm them up. Two weeks minimum, y'all. 100%. Whoever tells you don't do that, there's no harm in doing it. So, Definitely warm them up. Yes.

Even some of that reputation protection, sending those seed emails while the things active too can help. At some point, all these email addresses will get flagged. It's just you're trying to play the longevity game here, right? They all die.

Yeah.

Just one little time.

And Grant has a good question. What does warming up an inbox mean? Because I'm sure other people have this question. So y'all, when you're buying like, how the, You know, this is how the system works today, right? Previously, you would have Andy@distribute.so as your email, and guess what? You send a thousand emails to people from that one email, right? Now, what do you, well, what did we learn? Well, that's gonna probably burn your domain and your email, and if you get marked as spam so many times, Google is gonna be like, heck no, now you're not landing in anyone's inbox, right? So now what people are doing, is they're buying multiple domains. So distribute.com, distribute.io, distribute.coool, distribute.tech, distribute, whatever. And then you're attaching emails to that domain. So when you're sending from these emails, what's happening is that if one gets flagged as spam, it doesn't affect the whole pool, right? So it's like, you know, someone pees in the pool, it kind of sucks for everyone. Like, don't pee in the pool, y'all. well, guess what? Like some of your emails are going to pee in the pool and you want to get rid of them.

Right.

That's the same concept. All right. So you want to get rid of that. You want to get rid of that. That's what warming up means. It's like essentially some of these email providers now instantly smart lead shout out to smart lead and instantly great products. But what they do is they will like send the emails like to emails that they own to make them look real. Right. So is this a little hacky? Yeah, it's a little hacky, just to be honest with y'all. But this is the way you warm them up to make sure that you hit the primary inbox. Right? So that is how I would describe that. That is why it works in each inbox that you're sending from Andy@Distribute.so is only sending 30 a day, right? So you're minimizing sending them 1000 per day and minimizing the risk. It's risk mitigation on a domain basically, right? And so you're having a bunch of domains go out that you don't care about. It's not your main domain. All right? So highly, highly, highly recommend that. If you're a B2B business, you're not doing that today. hit me up, I can help you out and find the right people or hit up Adam or whatever, but definitely do that.

Yeah, definitely, definitely do that. Not a, not a mixed, no mixed opinions over here.

It's yes. Well, and what's cool is that our, if you have RB2B set up, what's awesome is what I can do is get people who visit my website and then integrated with these email products. So if Sally, who's the ICP hits my inbox or my website, She automatically gets put into one of these sequences, right, that I have an instantly that goes through that one of those email domains as well. So these products also integrate well with RB2B and others.

There we go. I'm back. I was. We got high wins.

What is up with the internet these days?

Yeah.

Dude, we got it. That's our next business, guys. The three of us, new internet, we're calling it new internet.

I haven't.

Compete with Elon for Starlink.

Yeah, we should send satellites to the sky and have them go around the earth so that everyone can have internet.

Yeah. Oh, Ashland, so good. Unfuck my internet. Yes, that's true.

No way, man. We're going to dig under the earth. We're going to put it in the center and then it'll stream outwards.

Yeah.

Elon's not thinking like this. All right, we are going to bring up. Who are we bringing up? I think we already brought somebody up.

Leslie. Leslie.

Hello, Leslie.

What's up, Leslie?

What's up? How's it going?

Great.

Good.

All right, so the quick and dirty? Please, yeah.

Let's hear about your business for a couple of minutes. We have pando.com, I'm gonna keep so it doesn't get buried. I'll keep pasting it in the thing. I'm actually gonna share my screen too. That's usually a good way to show folks what you're working on.

Perfect.

Let's hear about what you're working on first.

Thank you. Perfect. So I'm not the founder, but I work very closely with our founder. We've been around for about four years. basically we are democratizing career progression, giving HR leaders the ability to get real-time understanding of performance. And everybody pretty much agrees that annual reviews are very painful and not very fun. There I am. And so this is ultimately a platform that helps with a continuous progression, giving again leaders the ability to get real-time understanding of performance and drive high performing.

Okay, and what is your outreach issue? Like, what are you struggling with right now?

Sure. So I was brought on full time in September. I've sent well over 6,000 emails. Our founder is incredibly influential. She is a thought leader. She gets great response. I don't get great response. So I find that this is particularly applicable to me, what we will be learning today. But I do everything from Sales Navigator and Outreach. I send emails directly. We have a massive database. I come from many, many years of sales. So I've done, you know, the sales enablement tools. I find everything you're talking about is just very, very relatable. I also do, you know, very thoughtful individual notes, try to keep it short. We work primarily with executives.

Okay.

I know exactly what I call people to.

Yeah. Cold calling too, Leslie. That's, that's cold calling, texting, right? That's texting. I love it. Love it.

Do you want me to go first?

Yeah, you want to go first? Go ahead.

I would just try to pretend you're the CEO and scale that out as big as possible. You just literally be her with your outreach and just grow it as big as you can without breaking it.

Yeah.

You know, that's easy. The response rate, is this the easiest?

Is this the easiest?

Yeah.

The response rate tells you everything you need to know.

Okay.

Just do more of what works, right? Like people ask me all the time, like what's a, you know, how do I like grow my product with distribution? And my answer is always try a bunch of stuff. Once you find the thing that works, do more of that thing, right? Like just keep trying stuff. And we kind of get shiny object syndrome. as is like, you know, when you're doing all this and then you forget like, oh, that's one thing that worked, right? And like, we're like, okay, well now let's find the next thing. No, don't go and find the next thing once you find something that works. Double down on that thing that works, right? And a lot of people makes this make make this mistake, right? Of being like, okay, that worked. Let me try it for a week and then like give up on it now because now we need to find the next thing that works. No, just make that better and better and better and better. It's like cold email, right? Most people that you talk to about cold email today will say cold email sucks, it doesn't work. And I go, really? I go, have you tried ads on Facebook? Good luck. I go, imagine you can hit your exact target market, anyone you want, and you can literally get in their inbox whenever you want and tell them exactly what you want and with no restrictions. Hopefully you're not doing crazy stuff out there and sending crazy stuff, but you know what I mean. It's insane what you can do and it works. You just got to figure out the puzzle pieces. So like, there's always going to be one channel, you know, if there's one thing that works, double down on it. Don't think you have to do 50 different things. Well, most companies when they scale it, ask Adam, what helped him get to what? What do you have now? A gajillion ARR at him? Something like that. He's at 100 billion gajillion, right? So he's at 100 billion gajillion ARR. And so he did one thing to get there with with RB2B specifically, which is his personal brand, his LinkedIn. He saw it was working.

He doubled, he freaking doubled down.

Any of these, and you're participating in that right now? Yes, exactly. And I'm part of the, I'm part.

Of the matrix here that he's got going on.

Yeah, exactly.

This is the new way, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah. Startup is this long game brand play we're doing.

And there's also a lot of people, like we have, you know, behind Adam's brand, I mean, John Ely is our video producer. He's here in the background. I help with a lot of brand stuff. We have some consultants. So we're really scaling out behind that presence and that brand affinity that Adam has because he doesn't have the time to sit there, answer every DM on LinkedIn, send out all these emails, reach out to people. So we do have to sort of creatively scale it amongst a larger group of people, but it's all about leveraging what's already built because as I said before, if I send emails from my name, Just way less people are gonna open them. And, you know, it's sad, but that's reality. I'll open them. Don't worry.

I'll shoot my emails too, please.

Yeah, I got you too, Leslie. Don't worry. If you guys ever need help, let me know. I'll open up just to give you guys a boost, you know?

And just to clarify, so premium inboxes, hypertype, Mill Reef, I'm her.

Is that correct? Yep, you're her. You are what's sorry, what's your CEO's name? Barbara Barbara okay so you're you're Barbara at badass yeah you're Barbara the badass at you know your domain.com your Barb at thedomain.com your you put it into claud or GPT and just be like give me a bunch of like different name combinations I could do but you are always Barbara some version of that always always always and then get Barbara posting content on LinkedIn too she does Okay, good. There you go. Even better. Yeah.

Even better.

Leslie, thank you for coming.

We're gonna send you a swag box.

Awesome.

Peter, you'll follow up afterwards.

All right, all right. If you would like to be audience, audience, audience, if you would like to be called up during next week's show, email producer@rb2b.com, I just dropped it in. And, Let's keep on going, Andy. So take away from that, leverage your CEO. If you have a public figure or, you know, niche public figure on your team, leverage the absolute heck out of their name. That is a giant lesson in the first half here, but let's get into it. So, Andy, right before that section, we were talking about these, you know, multi-touch points, super sophisticated sequences, cutting through the noise, you have sort of a, a like three step email system that you talk about. I saw you post about it just a couple days ago. Can you, can you talk about that? Let's start first with this first email that's designed to like, it's the pattern interrupt. It's designed to break through the noise and actually stop someone from scrolling or marking your email as read. Can you tell us the theory behind that? Like, how do you craft a pattern interrupt that works? Let's start there.

Yeah. So pattern interrupt, how do you, and where did this come from? So let's talk about the why behind us so everyone kind of gets it. Because you can, everyone hopefully understands what a pattern interrupt is. It's something that's different, right? Something different that people aren't used to getting. And that's a scary thing to do. Yeah, disruption, right? Because you, you, you know, what do people fear? People fear like, oh, it's not going to look as professional. It's different from what most people send. y'all, that's a good thing. Like, you want it to look way different from anyone else because you want to stand out now that again, we're kind of getting after the subject line. Even the subject line, you know, I like to make it look like it's coming from a friend. But when it comes to the idea behind the initial email, which the initial email, by the way, y'all, is the most important email, right? In a sequence, of course. Right. And so when you're thinking about it, you want a pattern in a row. What's a pattern in a row? You know how I find good pattern interrupts? This is gonna be a tip that hopefully you all take and you'll never forget it. Is I literally look at, when I'm scrolling Instagram or anything, I look at ads that stop me and I screenshot those and I steal copy from those ads, right? Obviously for my product, because these ads are being tested thousands of times and you can actually see how many likes they get. what's working, what stopped me, right? And this is going into the bigger picture that everyone needs to realize.

Right?

Well, great artist, good artist copy, great artist steal, right? So you're kind of like an artist. Yeah, steal like an artist, right? Don't copy the ads exactly in Playwrights. It probably won't work because your product's probably different too. But you get the idea. The concept is there. And so the big picture here and why, like, I have a bunch of templates and ideas But the main idea that everyone should understand is that the inbox now is like a series of ads in someone's inbox.

Right?

It's like an ad network. It's literally a series of ads and what's gonna win is the things that stand out, right? The things that resonate. So when you're looking at this, what's the next best place to look at? I go look at actual ads that are in the feed. What are people clicking on? What are they liking? What does the offer look like? Right. It could be the visual and the caption. Don't sleep on the caption as well, right? But a lot of these ads will sometimes have just plain text, right? They'll just say like, Hey, done for you offer, cold email set up, book now, right? Like all that, and then look at their caption and what they said in the caption. And so my wife makes fun of me because she's like, how come all of your photos on your phone are screenshots of ads? And I'm like, because that's my swipe file. I'm a nerd. Like, I just fucking look at ads all day. Like, I'm probably the one funding all these companies, you know, with, or like, or actually making them go bankrupt 'cause I'm clicking on all their ads and not actually buying anything. But, yeah, so that, and you can go do this. So everyone go look up Facebook ads, like the Facebook ads library. So just go look that up. Go look at your competitors. and go see what they're running. Like the answers are kind of there, y'all. Like what's messaging that you can leverage for that, right? And so, yes, Ryan, Facebook Ads Library is goaded. You can see what people are putting up as ads. And then here's the next trip on Facebook Ads Library, right? Is go look at which ads of that company have been running for more than a month. Because if they've been running them for more than a month, that ad is probably working.

Right?

That ad is working. That means that messaging is working. That means the photo is working. Because no one, unless they're really dumb and like throwing away money, you are not gonna keep an ad running if it's not producing money for you.

And you know pretty quickly if you're running ads, you know like fairly quickly something's garbage, right?

Yes. It's literally like telling you what's working. So that's the go to Facebook ads library, look at the copy y'all. look at what they've been running for more than a month. And of course, you're going to have to tweak it for your product, but that's copy that probably works.

Right.

And of course, you want it to be someone in your niche or, you know, in, in your area of expertise, because something that's being sold as like a fitness product might not work for, you know, you selling an email setup thing. So just kind of FY obvious. That's obvious, but I want to make sure that's known.

Andy, do you have one of these, like in your library on your, do you have something you could share really quickly as a good example of this, even if you, like, have to hold to the camera, dude.

Yeah, you. I have so many ads on my. I wasn't joking.

I have.

Yeah, yeah, let's. I want to see, like, a really recent one screen.

Let me make sure there's nothing naughty in here. No, just get. I don't do anything out of you on my phone, but, yeah, dude, like, here's. Here's some. Oh, I have actually have. Can you guys see this? I have one. Literally a whole blow it up. This one's from fixer. I like that one. the next one is, oh, this one's from Icon. I like that one. So, dude, I just, it's just a whole folder of them. Every day when I'm scrolling, if it stops me, I'm like, oh, that's not.

Me for a reason. Screenshot. Boom. Done. All right, I'm gonna post those on.

LinkedIn right after this show. I'm gonna have you send those to me, and then I'll post them to people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100, 100. Okay. Okay. And then, yeah, you see those, and they're like, holy crap. And then you, you, what you do is you screenshot them, not to use.

That exact ad, but to remember who the account is.

To then go to their ad library and then see which ones they've been running for a while. There you go. All right.

Keith just hit us with the, at what point does a pattern interrupt become the pattern?

Bro, that's a great question. Never this meeting.

Never. No, I mean, you should see this RB2B rebrand I'm doing. There's always the opposite of what the norm is.

Yeah. And that's a great point. Like, Even with branding and everything, guys, this isn't just cold email, but everyone here knows Gong, right? That's a partner of distributes. You know, we integrate with Gong and Udi from Gong over there is great. And he's the CMO now, president or something, but he told me something once that always stuck with me, which was, what was the quote? It's better to be different. than to be better.

I love that quote.

Yeah.

Better to be different. Yeah. Being different is better than being better. That's it. That's it.

That's more elegant. I I usually say, which takes that. That doesn't take as long to think about. I always say it's better to be different in worse than the same and better.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Think about that.

Yeah. That's a good one, too.

Yeah.

If you're the same. but better, you're competing for deals. If you're different but worse, people are self-selecting into your feature set because it's different. That's what it is.

And literally a master class in this, which everyone knows, is liquid death. Y'all, they're selling water. It's water. You get it for free at your house under the sink, right? People are buying it because it's different. It's water. It's the world's number one commodity. you're buying it because it's different. And so that is just obviously an anomaly, but like the number one masterclass in that concept, right? It's freaking water. So just remember that.

So that's our pattern interrupt, is just running in the opposite direction, even if it's worse kind of.

Even if it's just worse, yeah, 100%.

By the way, did anybody click on my Webflow link up there?

This. This.

This rebrand is done by no boring design. It's. It's bananas.

Let's see. Preview. I'm looking for it. Post it again, dude. I don't.

Okay.

I don't know if I see it.

I got it.

Here.

You need the quote one more time? I got it. I found it. Oh, there it is. Oh, it's robot Adam.

Robot Adam and just this Stark green that, like, we even had trouble getting printed on t-shirts because they're like, this is too.

This is too bright green. that's good. They're like that. There you go. That's a good signal. Yeah. No one's using. There you go. There's being different, by the way.

And I gotta shout out no boring design again, because I think it's, like, really an incredibly consistent job that they did delivering that pop. It's not easy to do.

Super cool. Super cool. That. That. That's like some people. I get haters in my DMS because they're the. I wouldn't call them haters, but some people look at the distribute site and it has Spanish on it, you know, like Spanglish. And they're like, hey, you forgot to translate some stuff. And I'm like, no, I didn't. No, it's supposed to be in Spanish. Sorry. But yeah, so anyways, we got a bunch of donkeys everywhere. People were like, why do you like donkeys? Anyways, that's a whole other story, but.

Yes.

We do have to get, we do.

Have to steal your swag guy too for unfuck my startup merch. That is, that looks like some good like streetwear, but it's actually your company. That's just incredible.

That's right.

That's incredible.

Yeah, we've got a, my designer is amazing.

So she's, yeah.

Yeah, that's what we do.

Yeah, that's, you gotta be different.

That's why it's so funny. I know we're getting off topic here, but it's like, I've never like, with me, I was like, if we're going to have company swag at all, it's going to be something I would actually want to wear. And most things, it's coming swag I've ever had. I wouldn't want to wear it. So besides RB2B now, because that swag is lit, right? That's why that hoodie is lit.

Problem is, it's about to be 100 degrees and it's going to be in the fucking closet.

Yeah.

Good luck wearing it. Yeah, exactly. Maybe for the sauna.

All right, let's hop into this second part, this perspective ship. So we interrupted the pattern. We finally got their attention. One thing I just want to highlight from that section too, you said like, don't talk to them like they're a prospect. I always say, try to like, how would you talk to your neighbor? If I was sending my neighbor an email, I wouldn't be like, you know, Hey Simon, I hope this reaches you well. I'm emailing you in regards to my garbage cans which were left outside over the weekend. Like, it'd be like, Hey man, I left my garbage cans outside. Could you put them in?

Yeah.

It's that other type of language that doesn't immediately scream, I am selling you. So we're about to. Okay. So the perspective shift. Can you take us through that second step of this, of this system? Yes. Okay. This is a great one.

So you want to do the pattern interrupt, right? That you're basically trying to do a, you're three strikes and you're out. You're trying three strikes here, right? Of like, what are you going to give them that hopefully will change their mind, right? Or be like, oh, this is different. So we did the pattern interrupt. Something that's different. They've never seen it before. Interesting. the perspective shift. Okay, so the perspective shift is, this is all insight based, right? What do people want when they go on Twitter, when they go on LinkedIn, when they go on anything? What they want to do is they want an insight, right? And they want an edge. So the perspective shift here is, it's basically a before after bridge. What I mean by that is, hey, before you used to think this, But now actually, here's a little bit of evidence of why that's wrong and why you should think this.

Right?

And it's, has anyone read the Challenger sale? Or the Challenger sale? It's basically that same concept. You're challenging what they already believe. Now, some people are gonna look at you and they're gonna be like, screw you, you're so wrong. And I get so many responses like that. I'm like, okay, whatever, dude.

Right?

Move on. You'll get so many of that. But what you're trying to do is make them learn something new. When someone says, Educate someone, it's changing their perspective, giving them something new that they've never heard before. So again, there's some similarity to pattern interrupt, but you're helping them go from A to Z in a different way. So I probably told all y'all, you thought I was gonna come on this call and be like, here's the top templates that you should use, and these templates are magic bullets. No, none of the templates are magic bullets. You got to start with infrastructure, which you probably were like, oh, I didn't know that he was going to become an IT nerd for 10 minutes.

Right?

So that is essentially, you know, that's the difference. I want you to have a perspective shift that it's not just about the copy and the email, it's about the.

Setup before, you know, you even get to that part. And we have some questions in here about like, you know, what are examples of a perspective shift or a pattern interrupt? How do you find those things? Is there a system you go through? I mean, I personally will just take, I'll take 10 examples of the, of the, what's common in the room and just observe that and try to draw commonalities and then just run as fast as I can in the opposite direction. But how do you, how do you approach that?

Yeah. Um, so we'll, we'll do the, honestly, I use AI to help with this. Um, I don't just do it off the top of my head, y'all. Like I say, here's my product with AI. I probably have a saved prompt everywhere I can give someone. But I want what's a pattern interrupt I could do here that's different? I use perplexity for this because it does live search on the web. I think Grok does it now too, a few others. But I'll use that and I'll kind of research it before and say, what's a pattern up here that's different? What's a perspective shift?

Right?

What does that look like? And so that is essentially how I'll research it. So to give me an idea of a pattern interrupt, you made something great, Pete. It's like come up with the first 10 things that come to mind and then say, I'm not using any of those. Right? The perspective shift, what's that? This is a hot take is basically what it is, right? The perspective shift is a hot take for us, like at Distribute, I'll give you an example. One of our emails was like, Hey, you're so worried about top of funnel. Top of funnel is important, but you know what's more important is middle of funnel. Let me show you some metrics on why. And actually most people are so like obsessed with top of funnel that if they actually just increase their conversion on mid funnel, a few percentage points, it is actually worth about 10x more. Your efficiency is just way better there, right? The efficiency in the mid funnel and getting better there is way more than trying to go get a thousand more leads. So once you look at the number, that's a perspective shit. I'm sure no one here knew that, right? and so my job is to try and educate people on that, right, and show them like, Hey, actually you think new leads is gonna solve your problem? It's not. It's actually giving more love and being more organized and actually winning more deals in the middle funnel of your process. So, and I've seen this a thousand times over y'all. This is, you know, there's the number, once you do the numbers, it's very clear. It's a lot harder to get the number of leads you need to get a deal. than it is to actually just improve your conversion rate by a few points.

Right.

So anyways, we can go through the math later, but perspective shift. Right. And that's something, too, that's used by.

I mean, you and Adam and a ton of others on LinkedIn, too. It's like that first sentence I, I use at a post that Adam had made from earlier this quarter. As an example, it was in December, we shut off all of our demand generation channels. We saved 100K a month. Here's why. In January, we grew, you know, X percent, and it was our best month ever. It's like, well, how'd you, how are those I have to see how both of those things are true.

Yeah.

And that's that intrigue that I see from you, from you guys and other folks. So let's wrap this up. Let's talk about kind of bridging the gap between perspective shift. The third step here is this value bridge. So you've gotten their attention. You've gotten to look all the way into kind of your solution based on offering this sort of contrarian type of viewpoint. That makes them want to understand more of that story and how it's true. So where does offering value come into this third step here?

Yeah, so in those first two emails, and I have multiple formulas, y'all, this isn't the one that I'd do every time. This is a whole another thing is you have to be constantly testing cold emails, right? We can do a whole another session on my testing process.

Right.

But this is one formula out of like 20 that I have. So again, early outreach, I was forced to learn all this stuff because I had to get people meetings, right? And that was like our goal. So I had to like get all this together. But the next thing that we'll talk about is the value bridge. It isn't until that third email that we're actually pitching our product. We don't pitch our product till the third email.

Right?

Insight, insight, boom. Then you say basically, Hey, if you like that, we can actually help you with your middle funnel process by doing boom, boom, boom. The third one is gonna be more of your typical email that relates back to your email one and two. So the third email here is gonna sound more like the original email or I'm sorry, that the original emails that most people do, right, for their sales process. So we've essentially flipped this on its head. We've said that email doesn't come until you've actually provided insight and a pattern interrupt, right? Or a hot take that's changed your perspective. Then at that point, yeah, jab jab right hook. There you go, Mark. That's a good way to put it. I haven't read that, but I heard it's a good book. But that is essentially what we do. That third email is nothing special. The value bridge is essentially you now tying back. You're going for the ask. And the ask, by the way, y'all, is not can I get 30 minutes? They ask as a dynamic lead magnet. What's a dynamic lead magnet? That is something that you can create for them. I usually create, it's very meta, but for us, it's distribute deal rooms, right? So what we do is, Hey, by the way, if you believe in these things and you wanna actually test this out and improve your middle funnel processes, let me know and I'll make you like a deal room to show you what this would look like for you selling to this company, who, you know, X company. and it they'll go, and I go reply, sure, just like our, my LinkedIn content or, you know, the lead magnets on LinkedIn. And it works also on email, right? And so, Ziad, no, it's not a free trial. It's an example of what a deal room, I sell deal rooms, right? Distributor deal rooms or follow up, AI follow up pages. So when I sell, I give them an example of it and say, this is what it would look like for you. Wouldn't it be cool if you had this too? And then we provide them with that and then if they want to meet with you, they will tell you. That's my rule. Let them come to you, right? And it also is a forcing function for you to make great stuff, right? You want them to come to you. If they're not coming to you, then there's a problem. It's either your offer or your product isn't something they want, right?

100%.

Yeah.

You want the shit to fly off the shelves.

You just want to, yes, for lack.

Of a better term, lining up being like, how do I get the thing that you're even talking about before you even say that? So someone had asked, too, is there a call to action in emails one or two? Or is it just an email three where you're giving them something to do? Just email three.

Just email three.

Yeah.

Are they threaded together or is it.

Just, they're all threaded, same email thread.

One, two, three.

Okay.

Boom. One, two, three. That's it. And only in that one do you do it, right? But again, your first email and your second email has to be something interesting that they didn't know so they don't mark you as spam, right? Pattern interrupt, hot take, they may not, and if they don't like your hot take, you're going to get marked as spam regardless, guys, sorry, that's just what people do. But people that want an edge and are willing to learn, like if I get a something interesting, I'm like, oh, I wonder what this guy's going to send me next, right? Most sales leaders are thinking like that. because we want to see how they're approaching it.

All right?

And those are your buyers. And if it is interesting, I say, hell, yeah. Like, send me more info. No skin off my back for you sending me a sample, right? Like, I don't have to meet with you. Once you ask me to meet with you, I'm like, oh, man, this is. This sounds like a lot of work, right?

Like, even 15 minutes nowadays, everyone's asking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's just not gonna work, so it's just tough. But yeah, that's kind of the way I would think about it, y'all. And again, there's no silver bullet. I have a bunch of templates that I gave out on LinkedIn. But what I like to say is there's more to it than that. Those are helpful for sure. But I hope everyone here just kind of understands that there's infrastructure, getting your name out there, sending from your founder if you can. Even if you're a big company with a thousand employees, get your founder active and send emails from them. why not, you know, test it out? So.

Yeah.

Heck, yeah. Last question here. Well, we got two. I'm gonna do two. Someone said. Eshan said, gaps between emails. What's your. What is your time delay between one, two and three?

Honestly, I just. The default is, like, two days between. I just leave it at that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, like, some scenarios, Edge cases where I'll do, like, one, but mostly just two. just to. Yeah, nothing crazy. And then personalization. People are gonna hate me for saying this, but personalization is overrated at this point in time. Honestly, when I see personalization, I know it's AI and it's fake. It. It. And it honestly rubs me more wrong. Like, more wrong than it does just an automated email. That's good. I don't know why that's true, but.

When I get an email, it's like, hey, Pete, I saw you went to Penn State. My friend said the on campus spring, whatever is a hoot. I'm like, no one said that. No one's ever said that.

So, so what you can do is if you look at again, I'm going to go back to the ad example, and I know we have to drop here, but if you look at ads, how many ads are personalized exactly for you? None. As are per guess what? They get people to buy. None are personalized. Sure. They're targeted towards you as like an ICP in general. But they're not like, Hey Andrew, you're looking at this ad now. Like, you know, click here, like it's not. And so if it, this is a whole another theory, but it needs to evoke an emotion. Putting all this together, this formula, what does it do? It evokes an emotion. Holy shit, I didn't know that. Holy shit, I should learn more about that. Oh my God, that's crazy.

Right.

It has to be.

No one's gonna take a meeting because they're from your hometown.

Yeah, no, no, no. It has to be.

It's value.

And guess what? You don't need to personalize to do that. Like, sorry, you just don't. Yeah, dude.

And great copywriting is all about transferring the emotion from yourself to the reader. That is it. Yeah, that is it. And there's a whole study of how to do that. But, man, if you can do that, you win.

Yeah. And Adam is great. What's some Adam's emotion on, on LinkedIn post? Can anyone describe that in the chat? What do you think is that? What emotion does he evoke with his LinkedIn post?

Anger. Energy.

Yeah.

Let's see.

What else?

What else? Oh, my God.

Drama.

Yeah. So Insight, excitement.

I mean, it's the whole, it's the whole wheel, by the way, if you want to, like, think about emotions when you're writing. You can just type in wheel of emotion into Google and it's every emotion.

Yeah.

You can try to hit and you can use the even describing the emotion helps transfer the emotion.

Yeah. And put this in your prompts like, hey, this email needs to evoke an emotion, right? Just literally say that and say what emotion you want to evoke. But you want to invoke an emotion, whether it's excited or whatever, it needs to evoke that. Okay? My therapist wife pulls that wheel out. Oh, that's funny. Ryan, we feel for you, man.

Well, guys, that Andy, first of all, killer show. Thank you for joining. You brought the masses. You gave insights. Someone even dropped in, I don't know where it was, but to scroll up, this was so much better than templates. I agree. At the end of the day, you're gonna have to fill out that template with something interesting, and no one can do that for you.

That'S somebody somebody asked for the attendee count. We were up to 595. I bet you we were like, you know, 650 to 700 unique based upon that. We're up to 595 max concurrent. That's a lot. Everybody wants to know about sales. Everybody wants to know about emails. We will learn from the attendance and we will bring more of that content.

Let's go. I hope everyone got a ton of value and the value to time ratio was huge here. So that's what I hope. So yeah, everyone, thank you. Connect with me on LinkedIn or if you're in Austin, let us know. We'll go wake surfing. If Adam allows it, it's Adam's.

Hell yeah, we'll go wake surfing.

Whoever's in Austin.

Yeah.

Let's go. Next week we've got Sam Parr. He's the founder of Hampton. He runs a big podcast, talks to some of the most successful founders.

We're going to talk to him next week about building wealth from a small.

Business, how we started this media.

Sam Parr from my first million, baby.

Yeah, man. I'm gonna try to get on my.

First million, and he's gonna tell me I'm not famous enough. I'm gonna put him on the spot. I literally asked Sean Purry two years ago. I'm like, bro, like, can I get on? He's like, well, I'll ask my producer, but my producer always says, you're not famous enough if you don't have hundreds.

Of thousands of Twitter followers, so.

Oh, wow.

And it has to be Twitter. It has to. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Oh, my God. That's interesting. That's.

That's pretty crazy. Yeah, well, he's a good. I feel like small fish coming on this show now, man.

Look at that.

We're trying to stair step. We're trying to stair step. So we got Andy, big face, then we're just trying to.

Yeah, look at that. Sam Par's a legend. He's a good guy.

I think he's in Austin, too, Adam. He moved to Westport, Connecticut. He didn't like it. He lived in the wrong neighborhood.

He moved to East Austin.

It's not. You should have moved to, you know what I mean? Clarksville, where you are, something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. He's like, you know, he's like settling down. I think if you're running around in single, East Austin's great, but, like, if you're settled, like, It's not. Yeah, that's not the place. Not the place. Yeah. All right. Well, I gotta hop for a call.

Me too.

Thanks, man.

Thank you, everyone.

Thanks. See you next week.

How do you create the quickest awareness? If you look at other people's jobs and lives, you know, these, like, very public figures, their life seems exhausting to me. Always on the road speaking, whatever. The reason companies fail is because people.