Beating "Right to Repair" Roof Claims? Strategies w/ Vince Perri

Beating the right to repair. Vince Perry. So glad to have you here, Vince. Welcome to the channel. The commercial claims advocate and CEO, founder of Elite Resolutions Public adjuster. Super excited to have you here, Vince. Welcome to the channel.

Thank you, Adam. Thank you for having me.

Dude, just quick intro. So Vince, you fell into this from being a tennis, full time tennis instructor to finding this opportunity and you're kicking butt at what you're doing. I brought you into the Pitch pro movement as a special guest. The members loved it. We got really deep and this topic was really hot. Right to repair. And this has become more and more commonplace that we're seeing in the, in the claims process as derailing deals that we had deals lined up that fall through and deals lined up that we're banking on and the insurance carriers are pulling this stuff. So we're going to get into the nitty gritty today and just first want to say thank you so much for taking the time to join us.

No, thank you so much for having me, Adam. I mean I've been watching your stuff for a long time. Like I think, I think I told you before, you are someone that I look up to in the social media realm and the roofing industry realm and the speaker realm as well. So it's an honor.

I appreciate it, man. Well, thanks for saying that. Well, why don't you do just a 30 second intro to bring people up to speed on who is Vince Perry and why should folks lend an ear to what you have to say today.

All the old BNI elevator pitch, the.

Old DNI elevator pitch.

So yeah, my name is Vince Perry. I've been a public adjuster for 14 years, Adam. And I worked for one company before. Then I went to work for another company that I ended up being there for about 10 or 11 years. Like I was just explaining before actually starting my own firm, Elite Resolutions just a couple of years ago and then a few years ago, I'd say about two and a half, three years ago, started a YouTube channel. I realized after YouTubing public adjusting and looking some of it up online, I realized that there was no real go to for people, for public adjusters in particular, just to find some information about claims. Everything that you look up on, you look up on on the Internet or YouTube is really in regards to how to pass your exam. And I was like, all right. So I had done a travel YouTube show amongst a million other stuff that I've done and I knew a little bit about YouTube and how to create a video and how to post a thumbnail and how to do it. So I just decided to come out with a weekly show and I'm sure as you could understand too, it just sort of like just turned into a whole other thing and people were just very, very appreciative of the, of the content. I tried to provide as much value as possible. I tried to give as much information as possible and now I'm considered an expert in the industry.

Love it. And we'll put a link, tell folks how to find your channel real quick. And we'll put a link in the description.

Yeah, so on YouTube, it's a commercial claim show. On social media, I'm the commercial claims advocate. You can go on commercialclaimsadvocate.com to see all of the courses and the book that we have available as well. And we have an online course, we have a live course. And one thing I would like for you to come one of these days is our, what we call like an industry meetup. We're going to start calling it actually Advocates United where we're bringing in contractors, attorneys and public, public adjusters together in a one one place, like a three hour happy hour thing all over the country just to provide as much value. We have speakers, we have sponsors to try to provide as much value to the audience.

Awesome super events. And by the way, go check it out commercial Claims show on YouTube. We'll put a link in the description. So getting into today, right to repair some folks, this is a, we're seeing this more often in some states than other states. So for folks who haven't gone down this road yet, can you just share briefly, what is the right, a right to repair on an insurance policy and how does it threaten your everyday contractor who's trying to make a living by doing what's best for the homeowner?

So there's different ways that I could answer that question. But in, in, in, in the context that I know that we're trying to sort of describe to the audience, the right to repair is just basically the insurance company sending out their to do the work, they put an estimate to get, they send their adjuster out to do their normal initial inspection, the adjuster puts their normal estimate together and then instead of cutting a check to the insured, they basically say, okay, based on our estimate, we're going to send our preferred contractor out to review the estimate, probably revise it, put together their own estimate and then they'll be ready to start repairs. Instead of us cutting you a check and you choosing whom you'd like to now, you're going to not only not receive any money, you're actually going to have to come out of pocket to the insurance company with a deductible and you're going to have to be stuck with whatever they have. It cuts you out of choosing your own contractor. It cuts you out of doing any upgrades. So like if you wanted to do an upgrade and the roofer for instance, says okay, we can do that with the money that you received, you're allowed to do that if you have a shingle roof and you want a tile roof. And I'm just saying, just for some reason the roofer can do it. You can do that with the contractor, right? To repair, you can't do that. It has to be whatever it is that was written out. So you can't do any upgrades. You never receive the money. You can't choose, you can't choose a contractor. And it just end. And the worst part I think of it all is that you're not done with the claims process. You still have to deal with the insurance company. Your middle man is not the person you go to directly while the repairs are being done, is not the contractor. You still actually have to deal with the desk adjuster who will contact the contractor about any upgrades or changes to the, to the repair that need to be done.

Gotcha. And then the homeowner doesn't have a choice, right? Whoever they send out, part of the.

Repair program, it's, it's whoever they send out. Now I have seen that some, some insurance companies do have several different people that you can choose, but for the most part it's of the insurance company's choosing.

Gotcha. So homeowners, hands tied and they got to use someone within their network to get this work done. So why do insurance companies, by the way, I need to do a disclaimer. We're sharing opinion with this question. Why do in carriers do this?

I mean, I think there's several reasons why. I mean, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I do know that it is fact that there is an insurance company in Florida that the contractor that they do send out is actually a part of their board. I do know that for a fact. So I don't know if there's a backdoor deal or whatever it is that's going on where they're actually most likely. You have to look at the insurance company like any other business, right. They're going to find ways to save money, which is totally up to them. And if they feel that having their contractor out to do a repair is going to save them money then by all means. And it will save them money in the long run because those who do have the mrp, which is the managed right to repair program, that policy language is pretty standard stout in them sending out their people. There's another thing option to repair that we can get into right after. But the manager right to repair program that insurance companies have, it's very difficult to get past it. You have to allow them to come inside. You could try to make their lives a living hell, which is what we try to do, but you have to allow them to come inside. So by doing that, you're avoiding a lot of disputes with the, with public adjusters who try to dispute the claim. You avoid a lot of supplements by contract as you try to supplement a claim and, and ultimately you avoid a lot of lawsuits as well because again, it's very tough to get around that manage right to repair program. So I would say in my opinion it's probably just a way to save money.

Yeah, I would agree. Which makes it in the best interest of the insurance company, not the property owner. One other question on this. When a carrier does this and it's written in the policy, how common is it that the homeowner is even aware of that this language is in there?

Well, that's the problem, right? Most of them aren't aware. They don't know the kind of language that's in their policy. Also another issue that we have, which, I mean, whatever, whoever's watching this could come and get me, but I think the agents are kind of a problem with this too. It is a way for the agent to, from my understanding, again another opinion, there are benefits and perks to selling these policies. There are like awards that come out to the agents that sell more of these policies. This is from what I've heard and obviously there's a huge savings as well to the policyholder. So although there are many times that the insured is not actually aware, like a lot of other things, by the way, there's just a ton of endorsement and exclusions that we can go all day about that get included in their policy that they may get a letter of. But come on, when you get a letter like that, do you actually read it and do you know what you're reading? But the amount of money that people save by going with a manager right to repair program and the way the insurance company sells it. Have you ever seen these pamphlets before? Super happy people, what a great job. You don't have to worry about Anything. All you have to do is pay 1000 bucks and we'll do everything for you. We take care of it from A to Z. You don't have to worry about looking for a contractor. We handle all the insurance. We handle all. If there's any. Anything that happens, we take care of it for you. Just let us deal with it. They sell it like a very nice. I mean, it's called a preferred vendor. Like, it's just. It's very nice. Positive words that they use. And the way they sell it is they sell it as a huge benefit to you. And then it's also a much cheaper policy.

So if people don't know, I mean, I'll never forget I had a claim on our. On our old home flood claim. I was pulling up, actually, at a customer's house, and my wife called me and she was going down to scoop the litter box, and there was multiple inches of water in our basement, and the litter boxes were floating. She called.

That's not fun.

And luckily I had a good agent and I know the insurance world, and I maxed out all of our flood coverage and everything. It turned out to be a sewage backup or sewage problem, drain water. But at any rate, if I hadn't had that, I would have had to come out of pocket about $20,000 for that loss. So $30,000 loss on our home and the previous coverage capped at 10. And so many people get stuck that I've served that don't know what they got because their agent. And even if there's. There's malicious intent. Right. Grease in their own pockets. And then there's also the fact that many of them just don't know what it is they're selling. They just think I'm providing a good service because I provided them the lowest rate. Low rate equals good service. And they just don't know what's in there. So I'm sure you. And I wish they. Go ahead.

I wish they. I wish they did, though. Like, all it takes is that if. Usually it's a sweeping thing, right? So like here in Florida, we have citizens. If citizens sends out something that now every policy is going to have this, there should be some accountability on the agent to contact all of those clients upon renewal or maybe all at the same time. I don't know. Whatever your process is, figure it out and let everybody know, hey, by the way, this is what's happening. Here's why it's good, here's why it's bad. I don't know, but at least let them Know, because even when I bought this house, I was sold a policy that I was specifically told didn't have any of these. And I said, I don't want a policy with water damage emitter this, this and that. And she ultimately was one day away from writing the policy. I specifically told her not to. And it was like I was so pissed.

Yeah, that's frustrating. It's amazing how much and especially with the. We have to be mindful as contractors of how we communicate with policyholders. And at the same time we have to become experts in understanding this stuff so we can act as an advisor. Speaking of being an advisor, our mission in my belief, is that when the homeowner is, their best interests are at heart, the contractor's best interests at heart. These two truly do align, in my opinion, through the claims process when there's ethical contractors doing the work and are interested in getting the right outcome and doing the best job for the property owner. It's just how it lines up. So for those of us who are stuck dealing with this right to repair, I'd like to spend the remainder of our time on tactical strategies that anyone can use, no matter what state you're in, to beat this right repair. So you don't go through all this work, get a contingency or an AOB and then find out that there's this language in the policy and then wasted effort down the tube. So let's, let's jump into it how, what are some different ways that we can, we can truly overcome the right to repair.

So I'd like to start by saying, which is going to be the least liked answer that you were probably expecting or that anybody's going to want to hear is to not walk away from these claims because that's another reason why they implement this stuff is because, and I see it all the time in the public adjusting industry, oh, this is a managed right to repair. I'm not signing it. Oh, this is a prevent vendor. I'm not signing it. You handle it yourself. There's a reason why we're there, right, is we have to have the, the, the policyholder, the homeowner's best interest at heart and they're still going to need the help. Because even at worst case scenario, again, I know it's a risk, but if the adjuster walks out there, you've got an estimate at least you'll still have an opportunity to maybe negotiate, to try to get them more again. I know nobody's going to like that answer, right? Because you have the, you have the potential of working for free. But I, you know, I think at least on my end as an adjuster, I think we should at least try to, even if we're not getting a percentage to negotiate a value. And maybe there's something in your contract that you can put, I don't know, something like a flat fee for me working here. I don't know, something. We do have that in our contract though, by the way, that if you decide to use their preferred vendor for us helping you, we do have a flat fee that we charge. So I don't know if that's something you guys can do, but in regards to sort of tactical that you can do to sort of fight it is honestly, you have to make sure that whoever it is that they're sending is the best person possible to actually do the job. And it all starts, in my opinion, with a Google search. So who is it that you guys exactly are sending? Oh, you're sending XYZ construction company. Okay, let me check it out on Google and see who it is. A lot of times it's not the best rated Google, Google rated contractor in the area. That's number one. You show that to your, to the insured, you show it to the client, they're not going to be happy. They. Number two is we like to actually send a letter of a laundry list of things that we are requiring from them to make sure that these are the right people. And we discuss this with the client first. Hey, you know, here's the situation, here's what's going on, here's what you have to do. More often than not, they're not very happy. And I'll tell you, there's been times where they were okay with it. Okay, call me if you need me. You go ahead and deal with it. But for the most part, they're not, they're not very happy with it. And like as I was explaining before we started recording, I don't have to go through it now. We send a letter of 17 different things that we are requiring from the insurance company to provide us of the contractor. And just to name a few, we want to know the active. If the state license is active, we want to know. We want a background check. And not just a background check. We even have here, we haven't have here, like if there are any criminals, sex offenders, like anything. We want to know who it is that you're sending to this house. We want to know if you've got workers compensation. We want to know. We want to make sure that the insurer accepts full responsibility for obtaining and citing the notice of commencement.

We want, by the way, insurer, that's the insurance company. I know we get into this language. Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead.

We want the insurance company agrees to dispose of all construction material. We want all qualified representatives to monitor. To monitor the active the activity of all contractors, subcontractors, representatives, adjusters. We want the insurer. Insurer to provide a temporary toilet for all contractors and subcontractors. We send this letter with literally 17 different. I'll even give you the last one that the insurer will make sure that any subcontractor that is working the property has been given Covid tests, vaccinated and or following CDC Covid guidelines.

Wow. So this is basically for everybody listening or watching a reasonable set of demands that a homeowner could make on any contractor to say, before I hire you, I need to make sure I trust you, you're safe, you have good people. Now we have a letter template that some of the members of the Pitch Pro Movement are using. By the way, it's wicked similar to this that's being sent and that's saved in any for it's accessible to all PitchForward movement members as well. And folks can reach out to Vince. Vince, you take on roofers and people can contact Elite Resolutions if they want help as a public adjuster and can learn more on your website to have someone do this for them as well. So what's the success rate on this letter, by the way? Disclaimer for everybody. There's no magic bullet with anything. So that being said, what, what are you seeing?

We are, we are very successful a lot of times what happens and I'll explain to you why another thing that we do. So we are very successful for two reasons. Either they answer everything and the insured is happy and we're happy, that's okay, or they don't respond within. At least in Florida and check your state, there is a 14 day statute that says they have to respond to everything within 14 days. So if they don't respond to this letter, we do have a case for litigation if need be. And with us, thankfully at Elite Resolutions, we've got a pretty good reputation where we don't mess around. So they already know that. Oh boy, if they don't respond soon, that's where it's going to end up. So I can't give you a percentage on it, but we are very successful. When they see this letter, they're just like, oh. The other thing is that we also do try to use the appraisal process. So I don't know if you guys know much about. If you know much about the appraisal process. It's just a dispute process that even though upon there being an appraisal agreement that the they could still exercise their. Their right to repair. So that doesn't mean anything. A lot of people think if we go to appraisal, then we'll get the money. No, they could still exercise the right to repair after appraisal. But here's what I've noticed, Adam, initially, if you don't dispute it, okay, and they send the contractor out, let's say to do the roof for 10,000 bucks. Okay? Contractor does the work for 10,000 bucks, and they use the same contractor all the time. But then in this one claim, the public adjuster or the contractor, they decided to say, hey, I think you should go the appraisal route. They end up going the appraisal route. And that similar roof that would have normally cost, that billed that contractor about 10,000 bucks, all of a sudden gets $20,000 in appraisal. Now that contractor is going to be like, wait a minute, I only got paid 10,000 bucks for this one, but for this one, I could have done it for 10. Why are we getting 20? And then what ends up happening? We get a check for that one. I've kind of noticed that. So it's just interesting how the different taxes you just got to the tactics, you got to dispute it. Appraisal is a good one. Sending this letter is another good one. And if you live in a state where you do have the attorney fees and cost stat going, the litigation route is beneficial and it's not cost heavy on the insured, then that's another route that you can go to as well.

Gotcha. And you mentioned. Thanks for sharing those, by the way. I love that you summarize it, because I don't have to. I always summarize little chunks. I appreciate that. On my notes here, you had mentioned that there's a window on some policies for the carrier to notify the homeowner of that repair program. So what can you speak to that and then any other details that an everyday contractor, when I say every day, I mean not a public adjuster. That's what I mean by an everyday contractor can understand either some of the policy language to help interpret whether or not they have a shot or what shots they can take.

So to answer your question about the actual time limit, I was reading to you an option to repair that was sent by the carrier that specifically stated that that that option, they had to exercise their option to repair within 30 days of the initial inspection of the insurance company. So if that is sent on day 31, that is basically unless they have a reasonable reason that is no longer valid. So that's, I guess it's not really a loophole, but, you know, it is what it is. The other thing that I want, I want contractors to be wary of is there is something in the policy that's called our option. Okay. And what our option actually is defined now. Now, I was telling you that just yesterday I read an R option in the policy that did say we have our option to use our preferred vendor. But normally the our option language actually says we have our option to use like, kind, quality material on your home. So if it's a certain tile on your roof and we can't find that exact tile, we have the option to not use that tile and get something of like kind and quality. Well, they have twisted it in a way where even if it doesn't say anything specific about their preferred vendor, they're using just the our option language to make it sound like it's their option to use a preferred vendor. I mean, I have one letter here that I was. I'm looking at where it specifically says it's our option for losses settled on actual cash value. If we give you written notice within 30 days after we receive your science, one proof of loss, we may repair or replace any part of the damaged property with material or property of like kind and quality. It says nothing about using our preferred vendor. And then the next paragraph is all of a sudden just paragraph in the letter, it says, oh, we ensure that all contractors utilize for the repairs to your home is okay, a representative from the roofing company should contact you. But it doesn't say it anywhere in the policy. And I think you know as much as I do. If it's not in the policy, it is not valid. It's not. It cannot be exercised. You can't just make up the rules as you go. And I'm always under the opinion that the desk adjusters that you're dealing with, they're human, right? Like anybody else. And if they're being told by the leader and the leader above them and leader above them, this is what is. They believe it too. So even when I bring this up to desk adjusters, they're just like, huh, no, no, our option means we have the option to repair. It's like, no, no, look at the policy. So the last piece of advice I would give is make sure you take everything that the insurance company tells you with a fine grain of salt. Because it could be honestly, I don't even want to say that it's any kind of fraud or any kind of actual like direct negligence. It just could be incompetence, it could be just ignorance. They don't even know. They just. This is what we've been told. It happens all the time. We talk about it amongst the justice. All the time that it happens. All it's like made up rules that they have where you have to make sure you ask them if this you, if you think this is. So you need to show me exactly in the policy where it states that if it does not, then we're not going to agree to that.

Yeah, I love that. And it's difficult because I know, you know, UPPA laws, the unlicensed practice of public adjusting is the fine line that contractors walk. And when we get into this policy language and coverage stuff, we can quickly step over that line. So there are times that we need to know the rules to play in the lane that we can. And sending that letter to me that doesn't have anything to do with policy or coverage interpretation and understanding your opportunities to come to a safe resolution is really important so you can take advantage of those. But again, maintaining the. And if anyone is unfamiliar with UPPA laws, there's a more recent case in Texas that a contractor is dealing with that he's claiming he never violated those laws. But I believe, and again, this is early, I haven't read the case details, but I have talked to them that they're just trying to make it more difficult for us and have a, have an example case. So there are times that I would recommend getting someone like you involved, whether it's a public adjuster or an attorney at times because you don't want to end up doing what you think is right from your heart of hearts and then crossing those lines and practicing as a public adjuster.

So I would say too though, I mean, I don't know if I'm speaking out of line here either, but I think if you have a good community, if you have good communication with the homeowner, with the client, there's no reason why you can't explain some of these things that you just know from your experience. And again, and then have the insured, have the homeowner send these letters, I don't know if that's a gray area or not. As it's coming out of my mouth, it might feel like much of A it might feel like a gray area, but if the insured is 100% on board with you and the insured is putting these letters together and actually sending them, that's going to go a long way. And it's not coming from the contractor. It's not the contractor speaking policy language. It's actually the homeowner doing it.

Yeah, I like that. Again we it when you play the rules right, you can work it right. And we just need to be mindful.

So.

Last question before you wrap up, Vince. When in the language says we have the right to use like kind and quality, number one question that comes to my mind is what happens with a discontinued shingle or discontinued building products in general? Does the carrier get to choose like hey this color doesn't exist anymore and now the roof's going to look like a patchwork quilt or is there certain stipulations in these in this language where through an ITEL or NTSID report, hopefully ntsid. John Cnek's a good friend of mine and I love what they're doing over there. Like is it possible to get those overturned through?

Yeah, again, again it comes down to what's, what's said in the language. What's said in the policy. Right. What does the policy language say? And I know that there has been recent things now that has been specific to actually discontinued product and in those you're going to it's going to be very tough. But no, again you have to understand too it is the insurance, it's the insurance company's duty to put the home back to its pre loss conditions. And if there is something that is now discontinued it can no longer you cannot put just when it comes to like kind of quality it's to do the entire thing. It's not like kind and quality to do some kind of small repair. Like it still has to be put to its pre loss conditions. I use that term probably 50 times a day in coaching and also in just with the insurance company. So it's not that it has to match or not. It's not has to anything. If there is a specific tile or shingle that is no longer made in order to put that home back to its pre loss conditions. Well you have to either put what was there before or you actually have to when the person bought the home. Well it was all one product. It all looked the same. So technically by you putting a like kind of quality repair in there, you are not at its pre loss conditions.

Yeah, dig it man. Vince, thank you. This has been A hot topic. I've been really excited to have you on and with you joining in on the pitch from Movement and getting into this, like I remember during that session my notepad was out. I'm like, we have got to get into this. This is becoming more and more commonplace. So if you're not experiencing it now, you got a leg up. And Vince, I want to thank you. I think you were the first podcast on the new exclusive Pitch Pro Movement podcast. So all the Pitch Pro Movement members now on the recordings, instead of having to log into our training center and watch, we now have it there so they can see the visuals as we use the board behind me. But yours was one of the first ones, if not the first on the private podcast, which is members only. You know, just works on their normal podcast player, which is really sweet. So now people can cruise around and catch up. So if anyone's listening to this and decides to join a pitch per movement, you'll have access to that along with this template letter. But Vince, thank you. Let's leave our folks who might be interested, might have questions, best places to follow along and how to contact you if it is a good fit to potentially work together.

Yeah. So thank you again, Adam, for having me on. I mean, honestly, it's an honor. I really do appreciate the opportunity. CommercialClaimsAdvocate.com EliteResolutions.com is our PA firm. We're starting to create content now for specifically for policyholders as well, which I think could be very beneficial to contractors and public adjusters where it's going to them. So that's going to be very soon. On the Elite Resolutions website, commercial claims advocate.com, commercial claims show on YouTube and and anywhere either Vince Perry or Commercial Claims Advocate on social media.

Love it. And we'll throw some links in the description. Vince, thanks a ton for joining me.

Thank you, Adam. I appreciate it, man.

Be well.