LAWSUIT ALERT: New Case Threatens Freedom of Speech For Roofers Nationwide [Interview w/ Jacob Law]

Jacob, want to say welcome to the Roof strategist podcast and YouTube channel. I am really excited to have you here. Unfortunately, I'm not so excited about this topic that we're going to be sharing today due to a lawsuit. And there's a reason that you're here is to help protect other roofers and rally troops behind you because. So without further. Jacob, you want to introduce yourself really quick, and we'll get started on the details of this case and why everyone should be paying real close attention.

Absolutely. And thank you for having me, Adam. I'm Jacob Law with Stonewater Roofing. I'm the chief Operations officer and one of the two owners. So we are bringing this information to the forefront for the roofers of Texas and the United States, for that matter, just to one, educate them on what could happen and what Stonewater Roofing is currently doing on their behalf.

Yeah. Awesome. So let's jump in for everyone who's listening. What we're talking about today is a lawsuit regarding UPA laws. This stands for the unlicensed practice of public adjusting. This is when roofers like us serve homeowners through the insurance claims process. But there's regulations in place to keep people from. From positioning themselves as a public adjuster, and there are some penalties. So these UPA laws, as you mentioned before, Jacob, we were talking. This case law has already influenced what's happening in Florida. This new wave of legislation, SB 76, violation of First Amendment rights. They sneak under the radar, do a special session. So now we've got case law, which is what attorneys want, which will impact everybody. So I don't care if you live in Texas, this information is critically important to protect you. So you know what not to say. So you know how to get involved. You know how to create some defensibility in your business, because we are talking about some very, very, very serious allegations. Penalties, lawsuits, fines, a lot of dough going off the table in the sum that your projection was about 1.4 million when this thing will be all said and done.

Yes, sir.

Yeah. So, by the way, thank you for. For fighting for all of us. That's 1.4 million out of your pockets to make this happen.

Absolutely. Hey, and Adam, before you get a bunch of hate mail, just make clear for everybody out there, we're not trying to abolish uppa. We're not trying to get rid of public adjusters. We know they have a purpose and many of them are good. So let's make sure you throw that out there.

Thank you for clarifying that. I really do appreciate it. I'm looking off in my notes here, Jacob. So what I want to jump into is how can you just give us, like, the high level. What is this case and how did it start?

Absolutely. So this started with Stonewater being sued by a commercial client and actually a group of doctors that own a practice. So we're not talking about a little old lady homeowner with. I had no clue what was going on one way or the other. A group of educated, intelligent individuals that contracted Stonewater Roofing to do work for them. And through that process, a public adjuster was hired to work on that. That file with the insurance company. And we did the roof. They paid a little over $400,000 up front and still had almost $400,000 bill. And at the end of the day, that kept getting pushed out and out and out. Before we knew it, we were receiving paperwork that we were being sued due to holding ourselves out as a public adjuster and committing violations of the 4102 act within the Department of Texas Department of Insurance. That lawsuit meant giving their money back. It meant not receiving any more money and totaling about $1.4 million after triple damages. Obviously, we sought counsel, and we were told it was an uphill battle because of the way the law has been interpreted. And sure enough, in the lower jurisdiction courts, motion for summary judgment was ruled against us before any evidence could be provided, any defense could be provided. All because, one, you had the word negotiate in your contract, and for context, it said that you will allow us to negotiate with your insurance company. Um, and then on our website, we claim to be able to walk them through the whole process. Our trucks and contracts and paperwork all said insurance specialists on there. 95% of our jobs are insurance claims. So when it comes to roofing, I'd say we're insurance specialists. But those were the type of things used to get that summary judgment against us. Again, you're guilty without the ability to defend yourself in court is the way this thing has been interpreted. And then from there, we had no choice. We had to seek other means, which was at this point, we have sued the Texas Department of Insurance, the state, and the Commissioner for First Amendment rights, our freedom of speech as a company and as a business. And that's where we are today. We've made it through two levels of that, and it's now sitting at the Texas Supreme Court.

Wow, this is a big deal. And I assume that you're using the case law in Florida. In Florida, SB 76, escalating the Supreme Court about a file. Excuse me, a violation of first amendment rights.

Absolutely. We're using that. Our attorneys are using all kinds of different case law to include those that involve doctors and, and lawyers. This isn't the first time anyone's gone through this. This has been gone through before. And it's very clear that, that this isn't allowed. And there are least obtrusive means for the state to supposedly protect the end consumer than the way they have written this statute. And it's really much of a gray area.

Man. What blows my mind is how this relies so much on semantics. If you would have taken out the word negotiate and left discuss details of the roof replacement, for example, that avenue, that vessel's closed. If instead of insurance specialists, you just have the word storm damage instead of insurance, that probably wipes out. And anything that mentions insurance or the word claim or negotiate, those seem to be from, from my research, the key trigger words.

Absolutely.

That can, can kind of raise some flags.

So it also says that public in that statute, that public adjuster or, or you could be presumed to be acting as one simply by effecting the claim black and white. You effected the claim. You could be in violation of the statute. And as every roofer knows, I'm affecting the claim. As soon as I get have a contract with the customer, I send an estimate to the insurance company. I've affected the claim in some form or another. So not to, not to take it, take it to the extreme, but that is the language in the statute. So any roofer who has effected a claim could have lawsuit brought against them. At this point, you know, it doesn't matter what your contract says, doesn't matter how you word it or the semantics of it. If you have effected a claim, you could be. Have a lawsuit brought against you.

Yeah. Which brings us to probably the two most important takeaways for everybody listening. The two most important things. Number one is these attorneys who are instigating this process as you ambulance chasers, ambulance chasing lawyers that are literally just looking for cases, they say, hey, if this and this is on a website and you have a contract like with, with the summary judgment in place, they're lay down deals, sign a piece of paper, hey, you can't defend yourself. Deal close, lay down deal. So now we have the pressure of attorneys. So that's key silo number one. Key silo number two, whatever comes from your case will impact the rest of the country and our industry at large. Because now we have case law. So we need every roofer to Rally. If you are in Texas, who should people write again? Jacob, you shared this with me.

Well, we've got our websites up. I think it's stonewater roofing/tdi. Double check that while we talk.

But you also put the link in the description.

Yes sir. You also have the ability to write your, your congressman and our elected officials for one. So there's two avenues. We've actually taken that avenue too on the lobbying side with, with the state congress. But you have the ability to write your congressman and your elected officials to let them know we have a problem here and draw some more attention to what's going on. And that's one way. And then of course we have a page set up. Put the link to it is stonewater roofing.com TDI a little GoFundMe there. We, we are well over $725,000 into this. And that's okay. We have no issue with that. Again, they wanted 1.4 million from us and we're going to spend it just, we're going to spend it making it right and right for everybody before we just hand it over to somebody. But that's the biggest thing. Just get involved. One, protect yourself first and foremost. Like you said, protect yourself. Know what the triggers are and don't allow it. Have an attorney review your contract and materials to make sure. If you're not part of the RCAP of Texas, then you should be. They have attorneys that are willing to review your contracts of that nature as well and just have an attorney review your contract actually protects you should you get sued later.

Yeah, that's, that's a huge, huge thing. Have your attorney look through everything by the way. Every state, state laws vary, laws change quickly and then there are laws that, that aren't as enforced. Give you an example, deductible laws. How long has Texas been fighting this? Right? I still don't know if we have case law of a contractor eating a deductible now. So, so my, my point, like we all need to just be on the up and up and know what's going on and, and know what it is that your material is saying. What your contract. Jacob, when we first started this, I asked a question. I'd love for you to share this with everybody. Why, why are you doing this? Why are you spending your valuable time? I spoke with Roland, your co owner by the way, since I spoke with Roland, you guys have self funded an additional 225 or so thousand in just a couple months. Your time's valuable. Why, why are you Here today I.

Literally applied and approved another $25,000 worth of legal fees about 10 minutes before getting on this zoom with you from our finance office. Yes. So they, they come in on a monthly basis from about three different sets of lawyers just regarding this. But our main reason is to one, like you said, educate the rest of the roofers out there. A lot of times roofers look at each other as competition and we don't have to be such a sparse spread out group of people. We actually do need to coincide. We do need to work together because I think the majority of us are trying to do it right to grow our businesses, to take care of customers, to do it on the up and up by insurance and the customer not absorbing deductibles and things of that nature. So if you want to be a part of that group, then we really do need to band together not just through our cat and otherwise, but stop looking at each other as as much competition and help each other out when we need to. And that's we're taking a huge step to do that. We will brunt the majority of the cost here to make sure that again not just Texas roofers, because our case law and appellate court already is being used in Florida in very similar cases right now. We all know Florida is kind of crazy right now with the insurance laws that are going on even specific to roof losses. So. But we're doing it to educate our community, our community of roofers and protect us all. At the end of the day, if you're doing it right, you shouldn't be subject to these kind of suits and then have it summary judgment against you without the ability to defend yourself. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of roofers out there that may end up in a bad place for one reason or another. But it should not be because of this.

Yeah. No it should not. Jacob, thank you for joining me and investing not only your time with us, to share this message with others, to hopefully one defend someone in advance before something comes up again. Gentlemen and ladies and gentlemen who are tuning in, negotiate claim insurance. Those are the keywords of how they're positioned in your, in your material. Specifically a contract or your website. Those those big pieces when I say big pieces of marketing, things like a billboard, things like a website, things like truck wraps, yard signs. Would you agree that those are the most mission critical for this because that's your contract. Public eyes. Thank you. And contract if it contract probably key.

Because if it's on there they can find a way to avoid It. And then they'll use all the other things you just mentioned as additional leverage to say, see, they were trying to be public adjusters.

I was just about to wrap this up, and I'm opening the door back for a second. Do you got five minutes to handle?

Yes, sir.

All right. I sat in. I handled all of our legal stuff with our attorney, and maybe this is the time. I am not a lawyer. What I'm. What I'm sharing is not legal advice. Go see a lawyer. I worked with our attorney on all of our legal issues, which, as you do volume. These things come up. I'm in the court or in. In. What's the word I'm looking for right.

Before hearing mediation or settlement.

Thank you. In mediation. Attorney. Our attorney. Thank you for filling in the brain fart of the app.

I wish I didn't know so much.

But I know, right? Coffee hasn't clicked in yet, so I'm sitting in mediation. We're on a bill. This is a joke. $800. The guy owes us 800 bucks. His claim is that when we put gutters up. Excuse me. Ladder up on the house, the gutters squished. We scratch the gutters. We need to replace that row of gutters. It's going to be more than 800 bucks. He's not going to pay us. Now, I have in writing and signatures, photographs before the house, his initials on what was damaged, and then after photos. So I sit to the attorney, and I was like, so, you know, I understand you guys are saying this, but we have a. Before. I call it the U haul checklist. Everything had a. Like a sketch on the house before photos. The guy looks at me and he goes, adam, those are doctored. Now I'm laughing because it was like a T lock shingle we pulled off with a new dimensional. Vents are dipped like there's nothing even remotely. It's not like a.

He said. He said to the farthest right.

Like. Like I can understand. Like, I pulled off like a landmark and put on a landmark. And they look similar, and they're five years old. Couldn't be further from the truth. So I laughed because I thought he was joking. Well, it turns out he's one of the types of attorneys you mentioned. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, he's serious. So do you know what his next move was? This is the key. Key thing after that didn't work. Was to turn to the contract details and start pulling off that this font size wasn't right. And this shouldn't be in There. And no matter what our attorney, by the way, told us, our contract should be nine pages. And I'm like, it can't be nine pages. It can't be. Our contingency was two. And he's like, nope, it's got to be nine. And I'm like, it might need about six. It's. Yeah, we were. We were at nine. And we electively went to double sided, too, because of just. It was a calculated risk, which, again, I'm not a lawyer. The lawyer's advice was to go nine pages. We made that choice. But the reason I wanted to share this is. This is what attorneys do. So you get any dispute because yours was a red flag. We'll save the. The details of how this started, but I'll give everyone the Cliff Notes version. Unethical greed. Okay. From multiple parties involved that were not Stonewater. From someone who just wanted to pocket some cash. And this was a free pass. That's what it's.

Adam. I mean, it's pretty. Pretty insane to think about, but there was a public adjuster hired on this claim by the client. So how would Stonewater be acting as a public adjuster when you hired a public adjuster? Come to find out, it was the public adjuster that referred them to the lawyer that guaranteed them this money and everything. And just a bunch of shadiness all around. And see, that's the bad apples. And it's not always the roofer, especially in this case.

Yeah. Thank you for adding that in. I wasn't sure if you were comfortable sharing those details.

Oh, no, not at all. Like you just said with the whole not a lawyer thing, as we discussed before, that would be a simple way for Texas and the Department of Insurance to solve this, the same way others have in the doctor and lawyer world, which is just to simply disclose, be it in writing on your contract, be it in person to have a conversation that I am not a licensed adjuster. I'm not a public adjuster. A licensed adjuster. And any information I give you is that of my own experience and opinion. And we could be done with this and the lawsuits could go away, but for some reason, they want to fight it, probably similarly to why they don't want us all licensed either.

Right. You know, it's. It's not any different, in my opinion, than the supplement industry. I've got the miracle supplement. Take this magic pill, lose weight, look better get your hormones back and be a young man. Right. Don't worry, though. I'm not a doctor, but I'm not A doctor.

And we have no proof this works. But I can still say all of that.

And I can say it wearing a lab coat to deceive you. But the fine print says I'm not a doctor. Absolutely.

So.

Just insane. Jacob, thanks for joining me. I want to leave everybody with a couple of things. One, please review your contracts for any language that might open you up to this. Two, have a good lawyer. RCAT is a great resource for our, for our Texas guys and gals. And three, just know the consequences of what you say and cover your butt to be smart. Jacob, is there anything that you want to leave our audience with, ways that they can help or follow along?

Well, if this is, if this is struck a chord with anybody that's going through it, no, you're not alone. There is recourse and case study out there now already. While we did have a very big loss, if you will, at the lower courts, we had an amazing win at the appellate courts in Austin. Three judge panel that ruled, wait a minute. You are violating their first amendment rights. And this statute should have strict scrutiny, strict scrutiny applied to it. So we have good case law for you and there's ways to follow that. You can find it on YouTube. We can send it to you. You're welcome to reach out to us on water roofing.com and we will send those kinds of things to your attorneys. Would be glad to talk to yours. You're not alone. Everyone else, good luck staying out of it. And we hope that when we're done with what we're doing, you won't have this problem anymore.

Yeah, I love it. Thanks for fighting the fight for us. If you, anyone listening would like to contribute or support, please head over to stonewater roofing.com backslash TDI. We'll put a link in the description below. I appreciate everyone stay safe. Protect yourself. And Jacob, thank you so much for joining.

Thank you, Adam.