Roof Appraisals? When, Why, and How to Use The Appraisal Process on Roofs You've Sold

All right, welcome to another episode. I am joined today with Darren and Saul from Loss Appraisers to talk all three all things appraisal process, the when, the how, the ins and outs of what you need to know to serve your customers even better. So, Darren, Saul, thank you for joining me today.

Thanks for having us on.

Thank you.

Hey, before we jump in, I'd love to hear your background in the field. Darren, can we just start with you?

Sure.

I'm gonna go kind of from the beginning. My stepdad started a pretty large roofing company here in the Denver area. Interstate Roofing. I got out when he sold to a lot of guys, know who the new owner is. I got out about around then and I started my own company and then sold that one and then got in the habit of bought another one and sold that one too in 2016. And during the 2011 era, roughly, is when I started doing more supplement work for contractors. And that's kind of why I sold my Last company in 16 is because I actually enjoyed that side and I was pretty good at it. So I basically said, forget it. I'm too busy to do both. So I had to pick one or the other and been doing that ever since. I worked with public adjusters, lawyers, contractors, you name it. I've actually done stuff for insurance companies. So as far as appraisals go, been working with appraisers and doing appraisals for quite some time as well. And been doing most of my work in Louisiana lately. Texas. That's where the action's at the moment. And yeah, I own an aerial company, so Aerial diagrams dot com. So we do all sorts of roofing measurements, wall measurements, that sort of thing. And yeah, so that's kind of my background in this industry.

So needless to say, you know, a thing or two about how this whole thing works from. From all sides to say, yeah, yeah.

And I got my contracting side because in 08 when all the crash happened, I started buying fix and slips and we built up team of 50 guys, hourly guys, and we were flipping about 20 houses a month.

That's insane.

And so. So I learned so much about contracting at that time. So now. Now I had the roofing side and. And the contracting side. So it wasn't really much I hadn't. I haven't seen.

Yeah.

So for everyone listening, that's a. Your resume would not fit on one page of experience.

So.

Awesome. And Saul, try not to repeat the joke you made before we started. Why don't we jump in and we'll Skip that part and share your background, how you got on the appraisal side.

Sure. So, you know, my background was more in the real estate development side. So I was involved with the guys who found a piece of land, rezoned it, got the financing, and went from there. So. So, I mean, I've been on job sites sometimes. That wasn't a very pretty picture, but, you know, I do know my way around it. And eventually, in around 2003, 2004, the process of trying to resolve insurance claims became a little bit contentious in Florida. So, you know, for a little bit of background, Loss Appraisers is national company. We do appraisal and umpire work all over the United States. I've just finished one up in Rhode island, another one up in Georgia, and I do a lot of stuff in Florida, throughout Florida. We're involved in Texas and other places. But I'm going to take you Back to around 2003, 2004 in the state of Florida, where insurance companies were getting hit yearly with storms, and it was overwhelming the court system. So within the court systems, there's always been a way to resolve matters before going to trial. And eventually those kind of formats found themselves into insurance contracts. They were called appraisal clauses. And the reason they're called appraisal clauses is because appraisal is not arbitration. I think we all know what arbitration is, but it mimics it in a lot of ways, and it's more informal. So instead of calling it an arbitrator, they called each of the panelists an appraiser. And instead of the lead arbitrator being called an arbitrator, they called them an umpire. Why one? And I think two guys were sitting around, you know, with a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle, and they figured out, hey, these are terms we can deal with. So what eventually happened is these clauses started ending up in insurance policies and kind of sat there for a long time until the courts in states like Florida started saying, hey, wait a second. You know, we read these things, we want you to try to resolve it. And without much formality, that started happening. And I started out first as an umpire. I was the guy who, two out of three, you can convince me. That's where we went. And the process was generally informal. You know, it wasn't unusual for us because I haven't missed a meal since my last coma. That's probably debatable. We'd meet out at a restaurant, or we'd meet somewhere near the site. You know, we'd go over some paperwork, and then we'd go over and we, you know, we take a look at the site, we probably would go back, take a look at it again, and we would have some informal conferences that were very collegial, trying to resolve it. And the appraisal process is one, at least in the state of Florida, because it's not in every state. And read your policy, always read your policy, but it isn't. We would usually end up was, you know, realizing, you know, yeah, this is okay. Yeah, that's okay. And usually what would happen is the umpire was there because one side or the other may have agreed with the other's position. But for instance, if you were the carrier appraiser, you weren't going to agree to replace the roof because you wouldn't get work anymore. And if you were the public adjusters appraiser, well, you know, you made a promise of a certain thing. So the appraisal process ended up as it was intended to, especially in the early years of bringing some transparency and some clarity and people saying, yeah, you're right, I should have paid for this, or yeah, you know, you're right, I'm asking for something. Maybe I shouldn't include the neighbor's pool or just, you know, my clients pool, things like that. I use those, you know, sarcastic example, which I will to make a point all the time. As the process developed, it became one of gamemanship of who do we select as the umpire? You know, can we get an umpire who's friendly to our cause, who understands us? And eventually law followed. And there's a lot of law now on appraisal, even though it's not by statute. Appraisal is really done by custom. There are parameters in each and every state. So, you know, our audience here, some of them are from Florida, some of them from Texas, some of us are from Rhode island, for instance. The one I did in Rhode island was truly an arbitration. Texas appraisals are much different than they are Florida. Our staff is now geared up to do that as they are in Louisiana, because Louisiana, you know, came in from, you know, overnight. Usually Florida was the hotbed of appraisals and umpire work. So I've been doing. I started off doing umpire work and then eventually started doing appraisal work. I've done it and still do a little bit for some carriers. But mostly my appraisal work is for first party firms. We a lot of work for roofers and a lot of work for law firms. And I do umpire work for both. And I'm considered to be fair enough that, you know, even some. Some clients who know, or insurance who know that I've done work for petition, they don't care. They know I'm going to be feared. So in a perfect world, that's how it works. Now, let me transcend a little bit to how do you get to appraisal? Okay, got to read your policy. Can you just.

Just for someone who's never heard of this process, can you just do a quick explanation of what appraisal is before we get into that?

Sure. So an insurance policy is a legal instrument, and legal instruments are usually interpreted in court. That's expensive. And it takes a long time during COVID I mean, we're not going to see trials for a couple years down here, you know, unless it's crime of the century. So what happened was an informal process is available that instead of going to court, depending on what the policy says, you end up in an informal negotiated atmosphere in which you try to resolve the claim. That's in Florida. Texas is a little different. We'll talk about Texas maybe later in another show. So what happens is you look at your policy. The policy in Florida will say one of two things. One, you got to go to mediation through the state, and once you've done that, then you can go to appraisals. Others say you can go to appraisal directly. Then what happens in appraisal is very simple. You, the insured, have either hired a lawyer or a public adjuster, or maybe you've done it yourself and have tried to negotiate with the carrier who had a field adjuster that didn't work out. The second level is what's called the appraisal level. Each side picks an advocate, and how disinterested they have to be is also about the contract. But let's. That's for another day. So the insured has its advocate, the carrier has their advocate. And they get together and they look at it with fresh eyes. And then they look at it and they say, okay, well, you know, just like I said the old let's meet at a restaurant scenario, let's take a look at it. Let's see what we agree. Let's each come up with our estimate. And then they try to work it out. And if they can, they sign a simple piece of paper that's called an award. And the ward will say, you know, this is how much you get for coverage A, for property, how much you get for coverage B, for other structures, and this how much for personal property and so on. And if that. And you can do that you sign it off, and both parties are bound by that. Now, a lot of times that doesn't happen. We bring in an umpire, but go ahead.

Gotcha. Just to reiterate, because I want to make sure everyone's following along, because not everyone's been through this process. I'm a homeowner. There's a loss I don't agree with, the outcome denied, whatever else it is, the insured. The homeowner can then go to appraisal, where then the insurance company hires an appraiser, the homeowner hires an appraiser. Each appraiser gets fresh eyes on this property, writes their loss estimate, umpire reviews it and says, this is the outcome. Is that an accurate snapshot summary of the process?

That's pretty close. Because a lot of times what will happen is the two appraisers don't need to bring in the umpire. They agree and they sign off on the award.

Gotcha.

Okay, now, we will pick usually an umpire in case we can't, because if not, then it gets a little contentious later on, and that happens all the time. If we then bring in the umpire, the umpire takes a look at it, and then two out of three, it's not that the umpire decides necessarily. It's whoever can convince the umpire of their position or gets the umpire to render a decision that maybe is a mix of each one. For instance, I just had one where I was the umpire, where I disagreed with one party on the roof on the floors, but agreed with them on the roof. So it was a mixed bag. So it's not winner take all. Yeah. And then the award is signed, and it's at that point just only subject to interpretation of the contract. So, you know, the appraisers could say, hey, yeah, you know, we're going to pay for the neighbor's pool because, you know, dust got in there. The carrier is going to say, wait a second, now let's look at the policy. That's not in there. So it's subject to the policy. But usually that's not really an issue because folks like us who do this understand not to go out of bounds on that.

One thing to take note of, though, is you have to have some sort of coverage extended to go to appraisal. So a full denial is not something that you need, that you should send to appraisal. That should be litigated, public adjuster, that sort of thing.

Gotcha. Also, Darren and I have just actually worked on one where the largest insurer in the country gave their good hands approval to Send that a complete 100% denial on a roof claim to appraisal. And Darren and I worked that to what's going to be looked like $140,000 settlement, because not only did we get the roof, but Darren brought in his extensive construction background, and we found structural and other matters that we were able to establish not only to the umpire but also to the appraiser for the carrier were things that were significant. So generally, Darren's correct. When there's a denial, usually that does not go to appraisal. But as long as there's one thing that's not denied, you can usually one side or the other can invoke appraisal. But again, read your policy. Some policies do not require both parties to agree to go to appraisal.

Harm is one that doesn't follow that even if they extend coverage, if it's not about the cost, they don't want to talk about the scope of work. So in other words, if they. If they had five shingles that they said need to be replaced, and you're like, no, this thing needs a whole new roof, they'll. They'll send a letter back. Generally that state something like, hey, if it's not about cost, we're not going.

But now in Florida, it's a different animal because Florida is such an expensive place to litigate and there's an attorney on every corner. Then now, if you file a lawsuit, State Farm will immediately invoke appraisal. So again, it depends where you are.

Yeah, I always would share from, from a sales standpoint that when a insurance company, even on a partial coverage paying for repairs, I always call it a working commitment. We've acknowledged that hail has damaged or wind or hurricane has damaged the property. Now, we're not into yes or no. We're into how.

What.

What does that look like? Would you guys agree with that statement? Is that something that people can tell a homeowner that there's a working commitment, so to speak, and an acknowledgement of damage, and then it's now into the unfolding, or is this something that should be pulled off the table?

Well, I wouldn't use the word commitment because usually the carrier will on one end always say, well, yeah, maybe kind of, sort of, there's some damage. Here's what it is. And they're committed, to use your term, to what their belief structure is. You know, that's the way they were raised. This is the way it is. This is all that needs to get done. So, you know, in the world of roofing, you'll have a carrier say, yeah, that's no problem. You know, you can replace those 50 shingles in four different slopes. And they don't think, well, wait a second, if water's coming into the house, maybe we got to get to that underlayment. Well, how to get to that underlayment? Well, you gotta replace the whole roof. So it's a matter of perspective, you know, at what level. And that's where good appraisers and good umpires are important, because of the fact that almost anybody in most states can be an umpire or an appraiser, with the exception of, really right now, L.A. oops, you'll get my face. Back in a minute. Almost anybody can be an umpire and can be an appraiser. It's very important to have people who have background in reading contracts, understanding contracts, have the ability to negotiate and not wilt when pressure is put on one side or the other. And that's where a homeowner has the ability to come in and say, you know what? And let me make something clear. There are a lot of claims that really need to go to an attorney, and they need to go to an attorney right away. And in some states, we're going to see that happening even more so. But at the end of the day, somebody has got to set the value of a loss. And in certain states, when you get to the issue of setting the value of a loss, it cascades into settling all the issues. Now, issues of liability, meaning is there coverage? Is this a coverable event? It's usually for a court, but in states like Florida, we're allowed to look at causation. So we go out there and we look at a roof in particular, and the carrier says, well, no, that didn't happen here. That happened five years ago. We as a panel could look at it and say, well, you know, what are you talking about? You know, a guy like Darren would look at a ridge and move it and say, hey, wait a second. If there's no black marks underneath that ridgeline, well, we know that's been off for a while. If there is, we know it's new. So we're able to use technical information to formulate the resolution of it. In some states, like Texas, where Darren and I have a lot of expertise, it's not the case. It's just to set the loss. So appraisal comes in all the time, and the umpire process comes in all the time, not on every client. It's not unusual now in Florida for a case to be in litigation, and the judge to say, you know what? Isn't there this appraisal thing in there? Kind of read that in law school somewhere. Why don't you guys go see if you can appraise this thing and get this off my desk. So the weight of the number of cases also dictates the fact that you got to find a more informal way to do it. And that's the key to appraisal. It's informal, it's quicker, it's cheaper. Speaking.

One big question I get about the appraisal process. What's the. Like, who pays for it? And then once that expense has been paid, whether it be the contractor, the homeowner, does that impact the contractor's ability to conduct those repairs?

The answer to that question. Let me break it down. Sure. The contract, the insurance contract, will always say that each party is to pay their appraiser, and it's to pay one half of the umpire. So at the end of the day, it's a good question, because sometimes it can impact it. Just like if you go to court, you know, if you are putting an insurance company through litigation and they have to spend, you know, like I said, I do work so for a couple carriers, and they've got to spend 50,000 on experts, and they paid their lawyer $100,000. That's going to change their perspective of what they're willing to put on the table for settlement. So that same dynamic kind of sort of works in appraisal, too, because the appraiser has to be paid, the umpire has to be paid. But usually when you get to the appraisal process, you're not talking about going from 20, you know, from 20,000 to 23,000. Those aren't the disputes. Usually the typical disputes are 5, 6, 7, 800% different. They're usually at least 100% different so that there's an economic incentive. But most appraisers know how to work efficiently, you know, to get it done. My style, and I think Darren's style is the same thing. We pick up the phone, we call the other side and say, hey, what are we fighting over? What can we agree on? And, you know, streamline it. That's something that doesn't happen in litigation, because in litigation you're, you know, you're there to. And it's not only to fight. I mean, you know, the lawyers. The lawyers, you know, do what they need to do, and they have to do it a certain way to meet their ethical requirements and make sure that nobody comes back to them and says, hey, you should have done this or you could have done this. And in appraisal there's a little bit of that too. So usually the process is one where we use xactimate usually as the model for pricing and that usually protects all of the contractors of the trades, especially if the appraiser knows how to, how to use it and how. Hopefully you get an umpire who understands that. I just had one that had. No, never heard of. Exactly.

How does that happen?

Well because like I said almost anybody can be an umpire. So I just had one. That was where the umpire was court appointed and I was the appraiser for the, for the insurer. The carrier, the carrier had refused the roof but it opened up coverage in every room. And you know Darren and I, when we do appraisals it's not unusual for us to collaborate on, you know, looking at each over's eyes and you know, giving things a second look even though we're each one or the appraiser. And that's one where the carrier was at 23,000. I ended up with a $249,000 award. 236 ACV, $89,000 on a 2,700 square foot concrete roof. And that's not unusual. You know there's ones that we've done where you know, we have one now where in Winter Haven where a storm hit called Irma, 101 mile hour winds and whoever adjusted it for the care for the insured to a law firm on a 5,500 square foot house at $52,000 in damages. Well we're at 375 and we'll probably get close to that. And those are, you know, not always going to happen because most claims are more vanilla. It's usually you know, 30,000 against 60 or 70,000 which are most of the cases but each one we, we work them up the same. It doesn't matter if it's a $10,000 claim because we've done those two or whether like one now that I'm doing is a three and a half million dollar. They all get the same attention. It's the same process.

So what do you think, what with your experience, is it more standard for the contractor to front the bill for the appraisal process or for the homeowner?

Always the homeowner. The contractor is not going to pay. The contractor is not a party to the appraisal process. It is a process through. Now in some aob, right, in some where you have an AOB that, that's a little Bit different.

Just for anyone listening who doesn't know what AOB is, would you mind describing what assignment of benefit means and how that works?

Sure. Just like when you go to the doctor, they make you sign a letter that says, hey, we're going to do this for you, and we're going to bill your insurance company. You're going to assign the benefit of your policy. Same thing happens in construction and insurance claims. So a lot of times, for instance, good roofers out there will go look at a job and say, hey, I know this is a legitimate job and I'm going to take the responsibility from you, the homeowner, of having to deal with that insurance company, and I'm going to handle the process for you, and you are going to give me the right to go ahead and collect that money for you and do the work. And that's called an assignment of benefits. And it happens a lot more in the mitigation side, but we're seeing it now a lot on the roofing side. So in that case, yeah, the contractor or the roofer, so to speak, will control the flow. He is really the person in appraisal.

Gotcha. And then with aob, that's not a law. That's not legal in every state, is it?

It's not necessarily by statute in every state, but under common law, it's in most states. Like, for instance, Florida's had AOBs since the 1800s. There's case law going back that far, you know, from when Darren will tell you, I was around.

You set me up.

I knew it was coming. Figured I'd say three seconds, so. But so, but then statutes have evolved mostly for, as a consumer benefit, because folks who are here on this, on this podcast, this is the cream of the crop in the roofing business. These are guys who are legitimate roofers. They want to do the right thing. That's why they're here and they're not out doing something else. But you had people who were unscrupulous. So laws came out not to create AOBs, but to make sure that the people who aren't on these podcasts were doing the right thing. And that's what the AOB statutes really are. No more, no less.

Gotcha. That's. Thank you for explaining that, because I know that there's a wide breadth of knowledge and experience in this realm and dealing with these issues of appraisal and claims that weren't handled necessarily appropriately or where there's disputes. So what would you say if you had to give advice to a contractor who is dealing with a situation where there was a dispute, dispute over coverage. What's the best way for a contractor, a roofing salesperson, a roofing company owner to explain these steps and options to a homeowner? Because that's a big question that I get. How do I handle this? How can I best serve my homeowner? So if we look at it in terms of the policyholder, the homeowner, in this case the commercial property owner, what's the best way to kind of kick start this process? When should it be done and what does someone say or do?

Well, the process will be done. You'll know pretty quickly because if the company is willing to, they've sent out a field and if the field adjuster has said, yeah, there's an issue here and this is what we want to pay, then it's a matter of. And in most states, the contractor and the roofer cannot act as a public adjuster, he cannot act to settle it. So an intermediary may come in as either a public adjuster or an attorney, or it may just get settled in for. But if it doesn't, at that point, most contractors, most roofers have some experience. If they have a question, they can email Darin D A R A N D A R I N at loss appraisers or solid loss appraisers, more than happy to help them walk it, walk through it. There's some really great attorneys in every area all over the country who understand appraisals. But attorneys are more motivated to get things into litigation because that's what they do. If I go, I have, you know, a little bit of chest pain and I go to my podiatrist, he's not going to tell me I have a heart problem. He's going to tell me I have an ingrown toenail. So, you know, that's, that's, that's a gross analogy, especially if it is Antonio. But that's basically what happens. So you want to explain to the, to the homeowner, look, there, there's two different ways to do. You may need to see an attorney and that's an option. There's another option to handle this informally because we're not talking about rocket scientists. Rocket science, to a lot of extent. We're kind of like chefs. We're going to serve something. How are we going to do it? What are the ingredients? You know, do we need more salt to make it tastier? Do we need less? Do we need a 10 ounce cut of beef to feed? Or do we need 16 ounce. And when you see it in that way, we understand that it's a dynamic process. And that's the appraisal process is one where, for instance, if today you invoked appraisal, and like, for instance, we just had a roofer through us, invoked appraiser. We're going to do the appraisal for him. He had an AOB in Florida, was told that not to worry, that if it went into litigation by a lawyer no later than 2023 or maybe early 2024, will he have the case settled? Well, you got a homeowner who's sitting there with a vulnerable roof in a state where when a hurricane hits, it's not a pretty situation. They invoked appraisal. I've already been out there. I knew the guy on the other side. I said, hey, come on, I'm going to be in the area. Let's talk. We went out there. We already took a look at it. We disagreed because it was a funky situation where it's a duplex that's owned, each side's owned by somebody else, but it's one roof structure. I don't know what that contractor, that builder was thinking. So we've got a pretty serious issue there of how do we replace or repair one side of the roof and not the other, and warranty issues and things like that. But outside of that, we would have been done. That was one where it was quick. We have one now that we're doing on a storefront that a car kind of sort of drove into.

Kind of.

Yeah. Well, you know, one person says that the wall hit the car. The other one says the car hit the wall. You know, at the end of the day, there's. There's. There's stuff that needs to be replaced. So does it really matter? And, you know, we wrapped that one up in two months. And the only reason we. It took that long is one of the parties was out for three weeks. So some of these get done really quickly, some don't. Some take a long time because of scheduling issues. We had this thing called Covid. You know, we couldn't get into people's homes for a while. You know, people, you know, even more so didn't want me in their home, you know, even though I came with, you know, gas masks and everything else. So the way the answer is, it's real simple. Sit down and have a talk with them, tell them, look, this is what's going on. There's a legal way to do it in the sense of going to a lawyer. There's a more informal way. And if you are the contractor who, at the end of the day, they're saying, listen, we know you know what you're talking about. What do you think? You're in a position not to advise them because you're not a lawyer, but to present options, and that's the safe way to do it. Look, these are options you make. You know, you can make the decision for them because you have the aob, but it's best business practice, I believe, to talk to them, tell them, look, this is what the process could be.

Gotcha.

Even if they have the AOB or aoc, in my opinion, it's best if the policyholder signs for the demand. I see a lot better results by doing that.

Yeah, some carriers are picky about that, some aren't.

So when you said, when the homeowner signs the demand, so the first step is to submit the demand.

Does that need. What did we learn? The most important thing to take away from this is read the contract of insurance, read the appraisal clause. So the appraisal clause says, yes, one party can invoke appraisal. It's as simple as sending an email. Joe. Homeowner hereby invokes appraisal pursuant to section 14 of our policy. Please let me know within 15 days, which is what the policies usually say are 20, who your appraiser is. Thank you very much, by the way. My appraiser is hopefully Darren or Saul, but whoever it is. And there's your contact information, and off they go. And guys like us keep it simple. The first thing I do is I pick up the phone, I call the other appraiser. Hey, what's going on? Mm. Yeah. Ball usually gets rolling a lot easier.

Well, you made this process sound a lot less intimidating, I'm sure for many people listening. And it's great to have options because one thing I know and actually interviewed a sales rep this morning, and the guys and gals who are listening here watching, they all have heart, and they all want to do what's right by the homeowner. And there are some times that you won't get the work, but that's.

It's your.

You know, it's about doing the right thing and letting them know what those options are. And I know those. Those folks who are listening and watching are going to appreciate that.

So I'll tell you one thing. Since 2004, I've been doing this. I've never seen a contractor appraiser who helped a insured through the process not end up Doing the work.

Can imagine. Yeah. Do you believe that it's a good general practice, I guess, in your back pocket to have an attorney and an appraiser just, you're ready to go if you face this. You just know. When you mentioned having those options, would you recommend that folks that are listening or owners to have their team armed with, like a Rolodex, so to speak, for these situations?

Boy, Rolodex. That's from my generation.

I grew up with a Rolodex, too. And I didn't realize how dated that term was till I just said it.

Yeah, no, of course. You want to have just. Just like, you know, your clients now have you, the roofer. Anytime one of their friends has an issue now, they have you on their Rolodex. Absolutely. Knowing that lawyers are going to push you into litigation, because that's what their comfort zone is. They don't necessarily go into appraisal until later on. But absolutely, you know, most lawyers are going to give the client the option of picking another lawyer they want because that's just the way the process is. And appraisers will, too. Yeah, absolutely. It's a. This is nothing. This is a very normal process in. In the process, in the claims process and more so because there are a lot of claims, the courts are limited in what they can do. Litigation gets expensive. And the more you push a carrier to litigation, naturally there's going to be less money on the table to settle it. There'll be money for attorneys fees because courts can force the attorneys fees. The courts cannot necessarily force what the homeowner is going to get. So it's pretty simple. It's, you know, it's like negotiating, you know, with somebody. You're in a dispute and, you know, there's only so much money on the table, and you've wasted it on either the legal process or something else at the end of the day, that you can only squeeze out so much lemon from a lemonade. And that's what ends up happening in a lot of these cases. It's not unusual for lawyers to hit some amazing home runs for their clients and others, you know, at the end of the day, you know, they're a small settlement for the. For the client. Yeah.

Keep in mind, a lot of times, obviously we mentioned before, public adjusters hire appraisers. A lot of times, there's all three parties involved. We've worked many cases where there starts with a public adjuster, he sends it to an attorney, and then the attorney ends up sending it to appraisal so it's not just you got to go for appraisal this route. Many times we'll get something sent to us and we kind of have to say, sometimes you should really call a public adjuster on this one. It makes more sense. It's a lot of policy.

Or an attorney.

Or an attorney, or an attorney. There's many times where we have to do that. Other thing is when there's a smaller gap, just say that the only thing is overhead and profit. A lot of times that's a 5, 6, $7,000 deal. You send it in for a demand, and next thing you know, like, hey, look, let's talk. They don't want to accept the appraisal clause because at that point they're like, we're going to spend X number of dollars and probably going to have to pay it as well. A lot of times they'll just sit there and pay it. You're playing that trump card right off the bat, said, send it to appraisal. Next thing you know that you're getting paid. And that's obviously really fast because it's tomorrow.

Yeah.

A lot of times, too, when it says right in your policy where it says, you know, you have 20 days to name another appraiser, they'll wait till the last 19th day to name that. So you might have 20 days where you're doing nothing and not talking to anybody. And that generally happens. You won't get notified by them. And it gives them time to decide whether or not they want to go or not, because a lot of times they'll pick up the phone. And we don't charge anything for those. Yeah, we're helping you with the paperwork, stuff like that, but we don't charge you. When they say, no, we're good. We might have an hour or two into it, you know, but that is what it is.

Yeah, that's a nice way to take care of people. So I'm going to plug you guys because people should reach out. Let's. If a contractor wants to chat and wants to have you as part of their Rolodex. My dated language of saying a relationship to have to contact with questions your pager never saw. Yeah. Do you have. Do you have your pager? You know, it's funny, I remember running around with a pager and then having to go find a payphone. I know my face looks like I'm a baby, but. But yeah, I remember those. Oh, man, I gotta go find a payphone. Who's got quarters calling collect. So.

But anyway, that was from Darren's disco days, from what I hear. But.

What'S a good way for people to reach out to you?

Sure. Darin D A R I n@lossappraisers.com or they can contact me. Saulossappraisers.com Excellent. And I'll be. Our footprint is nationwide. We do, you know, we have a lot of clients that are just roofers. We have others that are law firms, and we have others that are public adjusters.

You can also send it to our general mailbox appraisalsossappraisers.com or call us at 888-301-5669.

Awesome. And I'll put all this in the description. If you're driving while you're listening to this, click the little button to open up the description. You'll have all the contact info there to get in touch with Darren and Saul, both of you. Darren, Saul, thank you so much for being here. Before we wrap up. This was incredibly valuable and helpful to kind of dispel the confusion and intimidation of the invoking appraisal process. Is there anything else that we didn't cover that you think would be important to touch on before we call it a wrap today?

No, I would just tell your roofers, go out there, do what you do. Don't let the prospect of either being in litigation or appraiser stop you from what you're doing. At the end of the day, it's all going to work out. I think you gave them some good suggestions and you guided us to make this very productive. And I think everybody will get out of this. You know what? They need to. So just go out and do your job. It'll all be good. Awesome.

Thank you, Darren, Saul, thanks again for being here. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Probably going to have to pay it as well. A lot of times they'll just sit there and pay it. You're playing that trump card right off the bat, said, send it to appraisal. Next thing you know that you're getting paid. And that's obviously really fast because it's tomorrow.

Yeah.

A lot of times, too, when it says right in your policy where it says, you know, you have 20 days to. To name another appraiser, they'll wait to the last, you know, 19th day to name that. So you might have 20 days where you're doing nothing and not talking to anybody. And that generally happens. You won't get notified by them. And it gives them time to decide whether or not they want to go or not, because a lot of times they'll pick up the phone. And we don't charge anything for those. Yeah, we're helping you with the paperwork, stuff like that. But we don't charge you. When they say, no, we're good. We might have an hour or two into it, you know, but that is what it is.

Yeah, that's a nice way to take care of people. So I'm going to plug you guys because people should reach out. Let's. If a contractor wants to chat and wants to have you as part of their. Their Rolodex. My dated language of saying a relationship to have to contact with questions your pager never solved. Yeah. Do you have. Do you have your pager? You know, it's funny, I remember running around with a pager and then having to go find a payphone. I know my face looks like I'm a baby, but. But yeah, I remember those. Oh, man, I gotta go find a payphone. Who's got quarters? Calling collect, so. But anyway.

Yeah, that was from Darren's disco days, from what I hear. But.

What'S a good way for people to reach out to you?

Sure. Darind A R I n@lossappraisers.com or they can contact me. Saulossappraisers.com Excellent. And I'll be. Our footprint is nationwide. We do roof. You know, we have a lot of clients that are just roofers. We have others that are law firms and we have others that are public adjusters.

You can also send it to our general mailbox appraisals.