Roofing Success Podcast w/ The Roof Strategist - Maximizing Roofing Sales From Each Customer

You're listening to the Roofing Success podcast, a show created to inspire roofing contractors to achieve optimal success in their roofing businesses. I'm the host, Jim Alleen, the co author of the book Internet Marketing for roofing, how to triple your sales and turn your roofing website into an online lead generation machine. I'm also the co founder of Roofer Marketers, the digital marketing agency for the roofing industry. On each episode I'll be sitting down with industry leaders to talk about their processes, the lessons they've learned and how to find success in roofing.

Hey, welcome to today's episode of the Roofing Success podcast. Glad you could join us today. I'm really excited. We have a Facebook mastermind group for roofing owners of roofing contractors, specifically targeting targeted around marketing for roofing contractors. And one day we had a discussion going in there and one of the members threw up the name of this guy and so I was like, who is this guy, man? So let me look him up real quick. He had asked to join the group and we really don't let anyone other than roofing contractor owners into this group. We really keep a tight knit circle on it. But I looked him up and I started looking at his material. He has this amazing YouTube channel and I was like, man, I'm gonna let this guy in. He's a straight shooter, really has some great value to bring. And so I let him in the group and he started answering people's questions and really helping out and provides so much value. He's the former CEO of a multi state roofing company and, and has managed sales teams and helped coach sales teams from 3 to 13 million. And so really excited to have him on here. Today we're going to be talking about the lifetime value of a client and how important that is. And it's one of the things that people really miss when they're, you know, a lot of contractors miss when they're going out. They're just thinking about that one sale. They're not thinking about what's going to come in the future from that potential client that you generate. And so we're going to be talking about that. So I want to introduce Adam Bensman and please tell us a little bit more about yourself and where the roof strategist came about and how you got this thing rolling, man.

Yeah, great. Hey Jim, first of all, thanks for the intro and thanks for having me on here. It's a pleasure to be here and I'm excited for this interview and for the ability to help your audience, make more sales, which is really what it's all about. Making sales, growing a good team and serving clients. So quick background. I fell into the business as we all did, knocking doors. And there's no better way if you haven't knocked doors, which probably everyone listening has, to learn sales, make sales, and most importantly, to grow your roofing business. But it's really no secret that knocking doors sucks. So I my background, I had no experience. I didn't even know what drip edge was or underlayment or ice and water or anything. I was broke as a joke. I had 19. I was earning about $19,000 a year, couldn't afford gas to go see family. So here I am in my early 20s. I had to call my mom to ask her if she could fill up my gas tank on my truck so I could go in for Easter. And that was my breaking point. Said I need to change. And right as that happened, Madison, Wisconsin experienced a hailstorm. So I interviewed, got a gig with a company who, as most guys listening to this channel knows, it's not hard to get a job in sales in this world because so many people are willing to give you a shot because there's, there's no real risk to the company. So I chose a company whose owner I believed in. His name was Jesse. And Jesse's a great guy. We're still friends to this day. And within my first eight months with zero training, I had the same quote unquote training as everyone else. I walked into an office that had just got set after a storm. I was given a three tab in a dimensional shingle board saying, this is what's what, here's some material, go knock doors. And I didn't know anything. So I go out there, I got my teeth kicked in. I had zero sales experience and zero experience in the roofing business. And I got lured in with the idea that you could earn six figures in this industry. And I said, that sounds amazing, I don't even know what that means. And within my first eight months, I was about six to eight weeks late on the storm and I generated 1.4 million in sales, which resulted in a pretty healthy income for myself as a rookie guy. And sold my first commercial project while leaving the gym all sweaty in my gym clothes and blew it up. And fast forward two or three years, I was a COO of a multi state, really, really high performing company with offices all over the Midwest. And I was the one in charge of all of our marketing training, our sales teams and setting offices. And I created kind of the franchiseable model, so to speak. So that way all the offices, instead of working on their own structure, I came in and helped create systems and processes. So there was uniformity throughout the business. And then after that realized my real passion was in the sales side. So I branched out and have at that point was consulting with companies, as you mentioned, from 3 to 13 million all over the US and Canada. I've been out on site training sales teams and have developed, tested and proven my own marketing material like printout in person. Very different from your world. You're in the digital world. Mine was in the 2D old school world which still works. So that's the quick and dirty. And my role with the consulting side was to help hire, train and retain highly effective sales teams. And in that process, obviously was doing a lot on the sales and marketing side, teaching the communication tactics and understanding how to differentiate a company to win from the competitors.

Awesome, man. And I think that's where, you know, that's where I love the value that you provide in that aspect and really showing companies and salespeople how to differentiate themselves. And I was, you know, watch it. I always watch all your videos on YouTube and that's. Check it out at the roof strategist on his YouTube channel. And there's, I think one of the videos I was watching recently was in regards to door knocking and then getting the neighborhoods and creating that honey hole.

Yeah.

And that's, you know, man, that, that right there, that's that long term value of a client right there. Right. That one client that you sign in that neighborhood could lead to, you know, a great income over the year.

Yeah.

If you did it right, you know.

It does in most the shame. The reality is. So I've run sales trainings both in office and virtual for teams across the US And I ran it started this strategy when I was running a sales team of 20, what was it, 23 guys at the time. Okay. Which for some people's a lot. For other people, you know, there's a guy in the YouTube channel that just said, hey, I love this, I'm sharing it with my 200 person sales team.

Yeah.

I could not imagine running 200 people and having a life. I would have no hair. But at any rate, if you do, whether it's five people, three people or 20 people, the problem is consistent. I sit down and I've opened a sales meeting and I say, I, I want to go around the room, I want to hear, I'm going to ask a question, I want every salesperson reply how many referrals did you ask for this week? You'd be amazed. First of all, either here, crickets, there's nothing that happens, or you hear like, one, two, like, guys, these people have already chosen you. This is the easiest way to earn more business. And I'm sure everybody that's listening says, well, I have a referral program, right? Because every roofer does. And I'm going to challenge you or everyone listening to reevaluate the referral program because chances are it sucks. And I can make that claim because I've talked with roofers all across the country, and I'm going to guess that your referral program goes like this or do a role Play. So, hi, Mr. Homeowner, I have a referral program, and here's how it goes. You tell me about someone that I can help sign an agreement with them, I complete the roof. Once the roof is done and paid in full, I'll write you a check for 300 bucks. That's how everybody does it.

That is.

It's absolutely ridiculous. And I'm going to show you why and give you a new platform moving forward. That I guarantee you. Now, you haven't given me any money, so you can't ask for money back guarantee. Although all my stuff comes with money back guarantee. But this, this I promise, will work. So the reason that doesn't work is there's two main reasons. One is it does not follow the psychological principles that will inspire someone to take action. So if I'm telling, I'll give them $300 at some point, maybe in the future, no one's going to do it. So there's a. There's a referral or, excuse me, a psychological principle called pic P I C. Positive, immediate and certain for me to sit down. It's my job. When someone already likes me, what's the number one reason I'm asking for referral? You already want names, right?

Yeah.

You want to know more appointments? Yep. Why not incentivize for the appointment? It's up to you. Meaning if you're a sales rep listening or if you're an owner listening, it is up to you to close the sale, not the homeowner. I'd rather have them dump me like their entire Rolodex. Right. So that means it's positive. So I can say, hey, I'm going to give you a reward if you give me a name. It's immediate, meaning I'm going to pay you now, right? Not later. And I like to use the analogy, like if you were Trying to teach your child to brush their teeth. You're going to do something right after brush your teeth. And then you get this. Not like, if you brush your teeth in a week from now, I'm going to give you a chocolate bar.

That's right, right.

It's not going to work. So positive, immediate, and then certain, certain meaning it's not yes or no. You know, the old referral program is I might. What am I going to send the guy, like, 10 names, and then I may or may not get paid. So, yeah, we don't want that. We want them to know that they're going to get paid. So my referral program, how I run it, is I pay $25 per appointment that I set. So if they say, hey, I have a sheet in my pack that I provide to people, if you're interested, go on my YouTube channel. You can take a look at all my stuff through there. There's links for all my. All my material. But I like to provide a printout. And I sit there, I have a body language trick I teach on my YouTube channel that you can, if you just search, referral on that channel, you'll see. But when you do this and you say, hey, who do you know that it might be able to help? All you do is you get names and phone numbers, say, I'm going to call these folks up. I have a call script that's also included. So you say, hey, I've been. You were referred to me by this person. And I'd like to set an appointment to chat about how we can help you and how I can help you do the same thing that I helped Peggy do. And once you get that appointment, you have a $25 gift card, gas card, gas or grocery gift card, local restaurant, anything. And when you do it that way, you'll be amazed at how many referrals you get, and especially when you ask at the right time. So I had a sales guy when we first rolled this out, and I rolled it out with the company that I used to work with after I left, because I was still very friendly with them. So I reached out, I said, guys, I cracked the code on this. I want you to try it. I have a picture of one of their salesmen who generated eight referrals from one customer with a hundred percent close rate cost them. I'm horrible at math. What's that eight times, like 25, 325 bucks or something like that? $200? Maybe it was more. It was eight or 13. I forget. I have to double Check long and short of it. This homeowner was like, blown away. Just like, yeah, talk to this person. This person. Here's my neighbor, here's my co worker, here's my family member. So they ended up giving him 2 or 300 bucks in gift cards, and he signed every single one of them. Okay, so it works. But the other really important reason not to do that $300 incentive, is it tells your customer, man, I made a whole lot of money off you that I'm willing to give away 300 bucks just to talk to somebody.

That's a whole nother psychological factor right there, man.

And they're going to be like, well, man, I'd rather have that money off my deductible or something. How did you make that much money off me? We don't want them to ever think about how much money.

And that is one of the things that they think about right away is how much money you're making off of them. And they don't understand that. You know, man, a lot of times it'.

You're.

It's just, you know, the margins aren't that fat in roofing, you know?

Yeah, Exactly.

Things up 10,000%. Right. But if you're willing. Yeah, if you're willing to give them $3,300, how much are. Yeah, how much are you really making on that?

So, yeah. And that it's delayed.

Like, just think about it, you know, for sure. Just the delay. Yeah.

Here's 20 bucks. So, by the way, last thing on that, I used to carry them around in my pocket and when the gift cards. Yeah, yeah. I'd even give them. Depending on the trust and the size of your sales team. I had a really good rapport with my sales team. I handed them to them. Each of them would have a few, and they can hand them out. And the cool thing, too, is you don't hand them it just for the name. You hand it to them right after you get the appointment set. So if they walk you to a neighbor, give it to them. The cool thing is when you either show up to hand the gift card over or you mail it, remind them again, hey, there's no limit to participation. This is how I've grown this business. And we believe in providing just rock solid service. And there's anyone you know that I could help, I'd love to help them. All I ask is just an opportunity to chat with them. It's up to them. If they want to work with me, great. If they don't, it doesn't matter to You, I'm just, it's my way of saying thanks for the opportunity to talk with somebody for sure.

And it adds that into that conversation. And it's a systematized approach. And that's where I think a lot of, a lot of people miss out on that. A lot of contractors will miss out on putting this into their process, putting these nuggets of information into their process. Hey, make this part of what you do every day. Whether it's asking for the referral, asking for reviews, all of these types of things, it kind of becomes this willy nilly thing and go out and one sales presentation is one way, another sales presentation is another way. This, you know, formatting it and making sure. And it also makes sure that your team is doing it.

Right.

It's part of the process. Let's, it's a step in our sales process and that, that's, that's a huge, huge deal right there. Just to make sure that you're getting the ask. And it's not an ask anymore almost. Right. It softens that ask. Right. It's a gift for them for sure.

You know when you said that, making it part of the process. Most companies out here, and I still believe in paper and pencil, this industry is a little old school. Yeah, you need to use digital. But there's nothing quite like taking full advantage of the opportunity when you're face to face with a customer when you are inside their home. So most folks are using folders, right. So you've got your paperwork inside a folder that's usually got your logo, your company name on it. And there's a preloaded packs that we have ready to. Once we sign the deal, we're leaving that information with the homeowner or the property owner. And I like to insert that referral incentive program inside there because it then trains the team. This is part of the process to go through it and then. I don't know about you, but when I trained teams I wanted them to get that folder out every time I got back. Oh, let's go through that way I can put all the paperwork in one place. We know where it is and we train them. When you sign the deal, ask for referral. Day of production, assuming it doesn't go to hell.

That's right.

I hated production days. It's always something, right? Ask for referral. When you clean up and they're happy. Ask for referral. When you pick up the final payment, ask for referral. So those are your four opportunities. You know, when you sign the deal. Some people, if I know that they didn't, they're not quite. We've all had those deals, right, where people don't love you out of the gate, you sign the deal, maybe wait, but definitely when you get that roof approved, if you're doing an insurance claim. Yeah, those, those key times, whenever you've done something for them that makes them feel good, ask for referrals. That simple. But I say minimum three times. If you're serving a hundred customers, that's automatically 300 referral requests. It's a numbers game. You're gonna get them. And if you're not asking, you're missing out.

That's right. For sure. And we spend, like you mentioned, the digital side. Like, you know, we're on the digital side and we spend so much time and effort in trying to make that customer know you, like you and trust you from what they see online. And when you get in front of them, it's so much easier. Right. You're already, you're a hundred times, you know, 100 paces ahead already then, you know what I mean? So, and getting through that ask. Now, in asking for the referral light, I saw something unique in a couple of your videos about. First thing is the yard sign. So let's talk about the yard sign. I think most roofing contractors are doing this. If you're not, you're missing out. But getting that sign in the yard, the advantages to that, and then the system that you use around getting that, the tips and tricks around not just having the yard sign in the yard, but what else can you do to generate more business from that?

Yeah, great, great question. So staking the yard sign is such a powerful thing. There's very rare exception that I didn't stake a yard sign and that was if I was opening up a neighborhood that no one had noticed yet. I didn't want to be the first one sometimes because it was kind of my secret little spot and I wanted to wait till more. Now that being said, I helped one of the sales guys that was working for us. His name's Lonnie and he was a frickin stud. What's funny is we almost had to let him go because he did some really stupid stuff. And then once he reeled back in, he became our number one salesperson and number two the next year and staked, what was it want to say, 40 homes in a six block perimeter in a little neighborhood. You just drive by and it was just like our yard sign blanketed.

Yeah.

On repeat. And it was great. So once you get the Yard sign staked. What I always like to do is immediately canvas the area says oh, you got to get the six pack right. The two house on the other side and then across the street. I always said, why stop at 6? 12 sounds more fun. That's right, hit the 12 pack. Now the way I do that is I use this opportunity on a few ways. One, the minute I sign it, I'm going to make door knocking. I always joke, you got to make door knocking suck a whole lot less because it's not fun. Now there's nothing more fun than seeing dollar signs on each door you knock saying, this might be a commission, but the minute that yard mistaked, I make sure I'm not going to go anywhere else. I'm going to hit the neighbors. So now I can name drop. I'm working with Peggy. I just left Peggy. I was just up on a roof. We did X, Y and Z. And I know you're in the same neighborhood. I'd love to just take a look. And then I use my, my line, which you'll see in the, in the, in the YouTube channel. Do you have any objection if I hop up on your roof for a quick inspection? Now you'll notice I say, do you have any objection? Because I'm looking for what we call a negative agreement. If someone shows up at your door and they're going to ask you for something, everyone's knee jerk response is what no, no. But if I can get that no to mean a yes using a little trick. Do you have any objection? One, it softens that up because you're not sounding aggressive for sure which is the most important piece. But the other piece is when they're naturally wanting to say no. They're like, no, no, that's okay. And the take rate when I shifted to that approach has been mind blowing. It's really important to get it right. Soften your body language up. I've seen people do it wrong where they get a right up in the camera. Do you have any objection of a hop on the roof? I'm like, whoa, whoa, calm down bud, calm down. Being out with canvas or straining them firsthand. So that's the first thing is go into knock doors when no one is there. I always, I'm a firm believer in multi touch marketing. You can't everything like what you're doing in the digital world has to. The team needs to know what's going on. So using the same language, the same offer, they can reference you might have seen us here. If you've ever jumped On Google, you'll find our name, you'll see our reviews. All this needs to go hand in hand. They're not separate. So I go knock the door so I can name drop, so it's way easier if they're not home. I leave some literature on the door. I have literature that I provide. It's in my pack. There's variety of different flyers, which I'm going to go to and why to do it. I'm not a big believer in the traditional door hangers. All these roofers buy the same garbage little door hanger. And the minute someone sees that, it's like someone was on my doorstep. And it's just a piece of generic marketing material. They all say the same thing, right? A plus. Better Business Bureau. Been in business for so many years, licensed and insured. Free inspections or free estimates. Call now. Yeah, it's all the same, same thing. But what I like, all my material you print on white paper. And it's done like that by design because it feels personal. So it's a little, little note that explains the process, right? So you hang that. And then that way when you go back for production the day before, you can hang another letter that says, hey, listen, we're doing an installation over at this house. This is simply a courtesy. If any debris or anything comes in your yard, you call me personally. You put in your card, you look like a hero. Because you not only are respecting the property, but you're respecting the neighborhood. I love it. This is a technique so many people overlook, and it primes everybody. Just kind of is like a warning, like, hey, it's gonna be loud. Because we know it is. I did a commercial project, and I remember it was like a nightmare on production. I had the tenants calling me nonstop. I had the neighbors. You asked all the roofing at the worst time, I'm like, we're abiding by the town laws of when we can show up. We stop on time. I'm on site making sure it's clean. So we hang those up. And then that way, when you go back to knock the door on production day, you use that same pitch. And again, door knocking doesn't suck anymore because you can reference, Hey, I left this on your door. And we just wanted to follow up. We're doing Peggy's roof today or tomorrow or right now or whatever it is. Here's what we did. Here's what we can do for you. By the way, if there's any debris, you call me personally. And I would do. This is almost hate to Say it. But it's almost like an act. Like, I go there just as this courtesy thing, and then I turn away and I turn back and be like, you know, by the way, have you had anyone look at yours yet? So it doesn't seem super pushy, even though it's by design. So it's like I want them to know my main reason is courtesy.

Yeah.

Of being there. But then as soon as I turn away and turn back, it's like, hey, while I'm here, do you want me to hop up? And it just. I don't know what it is. But that little turn your back and come back makes them think like that you're just not there to push, push, push.

You're not being pushy.

Exactly. And then once you get that yard sign, now you got two names to reference, and you rinse and repeat. Go knock. I signed this person. Here's a flyer for production. Here's the flyer after production. Boom. And now before you know it, you're going to pop that neighborhood wide open. You ask for the referrals from each one. Ask specifically about the neighborhood. And when you do this the right way, when you talk about opening up our honey hole, most people, honeyhole's not. I'm not the first guy to say this, right. In fact, I didn't coin the term. I heard it from whoever I worked with. But the limiting factor when you're selling is time. Even the worst salesman could sell and sell and sell. But then there's time to and from job sites. So if you can be smart and work that neighborhood and you're in that same neighborhood, it's gonna spread like wildfire.

That's awesome, man. That, that, that's so important. And the being in the neighborhood and being courteous, right, that, that's something, you know, especially this is. We have, we have contractors that we work with in a lot of the hail, you know, hail in the hail belt, right, where storm damage is the biggest thing. Every time that there's a big storm that came through here in Minnesota, there was two, like a quarter million roofs in the last, like two storms that came through. So, you know, I say it's almost like the salesman just parachute in, right? You could just see them coming down and they're. And they're canvassing the neighborhoods and there's all these kind of, you know, not so ethical sales practices going on. That's a way, you know, and people can feel that at their door, right? They can feel that person at their door when that person is knocking on Their door, they're coming with the generic material. Like you're saying they're hard selling these pitches. When you're coming to their door, you're doing their neighbor's house, you're being courteous, you're not trying to push them and be salesy. That's an amazing. Like, just think about that when you're out at the, you know, when you're out at someone's house, for everyone listening, that, that changes everything, right?

Yeah.

That breaks down all the barriers. They're. They're more trustworthy of you from the start. They see that you're doing a good job. They know Bob across the street. They know Bob and Judy. Right. They've known him.

Right.

You know, 20 years. If they chose you, they know Bob does his research. He doesn't pick anyone. Right. You know, like, that's awesome, man. That's so helpful for people. And if you can turn like. All right, let's just go on a little tangent here. What's like something that you've seen in this action of hitting a neighborhood number of sales in a neighborhood from this or something like that, where instead of just getting the one job, what has it really turned into for some one.

That guy Lonnie that worked with us, I told you did 40 roofs in six blocks. I forgot to put the qualifier that was in six weeks before the season started. That was working in old storm. So what we did is an overlay by the way, because I know I'm getting this question a lot in the YouTube channel right now is end of season. I don't know when this will air, but September, it's end of season. Guys are like, hey, how do I, how do I clean this up? And it's same end of season and beginning of season struggles that we have every year. So we just, we looked at the last 12 months hail swaths and kind of mapped out areas, looked at fringe areas and we tried to wanted, we wanted to get into the areas that haven't been worked as much. And then we cater the pitch. Which this is. Which if I can go on a tangent on catering the pitch.

Yeah, for sure.

He opened up that neighborhood because of catering to pitch and what the problem is, and I take a really firm stance against or a strong position against what most people are teaching. And I'll tell you, and this will piss a lot of people off. But I think it's gonna start firing some creative thoughts. Like I don't believe in jacked up trucks. I think a vehicle wrap is the biggest waste of money. And it's 100% about you. Yeah, it looks cool. You know, if you, if you're scaling to 12, 13, 20 million and you're running a fleet of vehicles, wrap it. But for the sales guy who's, who's driving a jacked up truck, like, I just did a whole video called what the truck? On my channel to see what people have to say. I was selling in a beat up Toyota Tacoma with a big truck cap on it and an extension ladder sticking way out the back. I have a guy now that's on like almost 2 million selling in a Honda Civic. So the reason I say this, it's not to make anybody angry. It's to challenge what's really important. And a lot of what we've fallen for in the industry, what we see other people do and then we mirror without really thinking, doesn't hurt, isn't working in our favor. And one of those is one of the largest sales training organizations that does this pitch saying, I'm gonna hop up on your roof and do an inspection. You turn, you walk back to the truck, you grab your ladder and you just start doing it. And this is what's being taught. At least it was being taught.

Yeah.

And I am like, whoa, that is so wrong from. So let's, let's just isolate the ethical version. You know, you're just like gonna go throw a ladder up on someone's home and force yourself. I don't know, not my thing. And secondly, not everybody needs an inspection. This is what everybody teaches. You've heard it, Jim, right?

Like all the time.

And especially being in digital marketing, you're like, what's the offer? Why is someone going to exchange their name, their email, their phone number for me? Is it a free inspection? Is it a free estimate? So most folks teach, like knock the door offer free inspection. Well, let me go through a couple scenarios. Let's say I'm a homeowner. I'm in ground zero. I have softball sized holes through my siding, grill covers destroyed, fences destroyed. My roof, you can see from the ground, is blasted. If I show up and ask for an inspection but my insurance company's already been out, or even if they aren't, do I need an inspection? No, man, my roof's totaled. It doesn't take a rocket scientist when my windshield in my car has been blown out. Right. And at the same time, if it's a fringe area and I show up late, let's say 12 weeks after the date of the storm and I have a check in my hand, from the insurance company. I don't need some guy to offer me an inspection. So what we do is we cater our pitch to what I call one of the four stages of the claims process. And to date, I've not seen anyone else teaching this. So stage one would be that there's no claim. This is early in the storm. You show up, it's your job to educate the homeowner, do an inspection because they need it, and then advise them on the next steps. But you can't offer a free inspection to someone if they don't need the inspection. They're not excited, there's no hook. Stage two is a partial payment, meaning west elevations total. I'm paying for repairs. Whatever it is, I call it a working commitment from the insurance company. So if you have someone that's, that has, maybe you're working a fringe area, smaller hail, you know that a lot of folks have partial damage. It's a whole different pitch, which I'll go into in a sec. And then stage three is a denial. You're working an area or, you know, we've all seen it. A roof gets denied, that should have been approved. Yep. You need a pitch for that. It's not like, oh, I have a free inspection. I don't need an inspection. My adjuster already came out. He said I had no damage. Well, we all know that doesn't mean much. And then the fourth stage would be, there's a check in hand, they've been paid. So what I teach and I go into this in great detail on the channel is how to identify. You got to alter your pitch as the storm sales cycle progresses. First 12 weeks, you're going to be leading with that free inspection. After that you're going to say, hey, I've been talking with a bunch of people and it doesn't even matter if you're right. If you show up and you knock that door and you say, hey, I'm in the neighborhood, we're just about to do Peggy's roof when I got involved, you know, and Peggy and Sally down the street, their roof was only partially covered by the insurance company. I'm in the neighborhood. I just want to stop by and ask you, how is the insurance process been? So it's an open ended question. I'm assuming that they've had a partial payment, but it doesn't even matter because they're going to tell me, they're going to say, actually, I haven't had my insurance company out. And you say, great, I'm glad I'm here. Because those two roofs had damage. Chances are yours does. Do you have any objection if I hop up for a complimentary inspection? I'm going to take some photos, come down, I'll walk you through what I see, and we'll chat next steps from there. Plus, when you take pictures, it's a great opportunity to get invited to the kitchen table.

That's right.

And if. If it's been denied or they already have a check in hand, they're going to tell you and you switch your pitch around. But that, when you said in terms of, like, expectations, is one, know your storm, know where people are at, and cater your pitch in your main offer. We're working with folks who've had partial payment. We know a lot of folks in the area have had the roof denied. But what we're finding is even after the denial, when the adjuster comes back out, we've actually gotten them approved. They're missing it. In the beginning. You can educate why, you know, it's rained. Since then, the damage is more evident. So the real. The real differentiator, both to win more business, but most importantly, to stand out above competitors. When you're the 12th roofer at the door, what made you different? And it's a different dialogue. You're like, well, you're that. What, are you gonna offer me a free inspection like the other 19 guys, you know? But what if you're the guy there that just references a neighbor, is kind, and says, we are helping people who are experiencing this? How's it been going? That's it.

Yeah.

And then once they respond, you know, exactly. You're like, oh, it's like pulling the template out. No, they didn't file a claim. I can slip into this pitch. How about a free inspection? Oh, it was denied. Here's this pitch. You know, you really only get one more shot to get this done. We just did it for Peggy. I can do it for you. And you can see how the other ones would fall into place as well.

And the hardest part of that sometimes is listening for people. Right? Listening to. Listen to what these people are saying. Because then you can modify what you're, you know, modify your sales pitch in accordance with what. What's really happening in their life at that point in time. Right. Did they get a partial check? Did they get. Did they get denied? What's going on? They. And then. And then adding value to their life.

Right.

How can. Yeah, how can you help them? Not, not, not. How can I sell you? How can I help you? Yeah, how can I add value to it. To your life in that regard. And that. That's where a lot of people miss out on it too, for. For sure. The. So no claim, partial payment denial and check. So you have four. Four strategies on each of those. Essentially four pitches. Right? So you're listening, you're listening for what, what, what. What stage are they in? You know, a little bit. Because of course, of, because of it. Because of the timeline of the storm. If it's, you know, if the storm just hit, you know, hey there, you know, know that these, these other options here haven't happened yet, but we're, you know, so, you know, you can narrow that down. But.

Yeah.

What else, what else do you want to kind of. I mean, this is why I love you, right? This is why I love your channel. This is how I, you know, meeting you through our Facebook group and things like that is that you just throw it. Like you just. There's no filter. Anything that you do, right. Like you just continue and continue to continue to just provide value and provide value and provide value. And that's what I love about it. And I know I've seen you doing stuff on everything from hiring salespeople to all of this stuff that we've talked about today. Let's go into this. What's another irritating thing that other people are getting taught that you're like, hey, if there is anything, it sounds like there's a few things that irritate you about some of the ways that traditionally roofing salespeople have been trained. What's another one, man? What's another one that you could go into and say, hey man, I hate that people are doing it this way. Here's a better option.

You know, that's. I'm glad you brought this up because I have a firm stance on this. And the reason I don't have a filter anymore, I used to. This is slight tangent here. The reason that my YouTube channel is free is when I was a consultant in the industry, most of my clients invest anywhere between, on average between 35 and let's say, 70 to $80,000 with me for one on one consulting. And I found that the real people that I personally felt fulfilled helping was the guy that needed it the most, which was usually the salesman or the owner. Not all owners could afford my rates. And they were usually the ones that were getting started or that were running lean. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna do something no one else has done because everyone's gates their training, they say, you got to pay me a premium. To access my genius, I've done an opposite. All my trainings free. If people want to use what I use, I provide that you're welcome to purchase. It's wicked affordable. My most expensive product is like 247. And anyone. I have new sales guys using this stuff. So the reason that I take such a strong stance is because I think it's really silly how people are trained. So to answer your question directly pushing us in sales. There's two things people do in sales. I have no idea why they drink the kool aid. You've heard of the One Legger?

No.

Have you been sent on a one Legger appointment, meaning just the wife is home, not the husband or just the husband, not the wife?

Yep.

So in the, in the, in the Internet world, especially, you see the Facebook groups, any sales group, they say it's a one Legger. And I'll never forget it. I was at my house, my old house, and I wanted to get a security system and call it the security company. Sales guy shows up. First thing he says to me, he goes, hey, is your wife home? And I said, no, she's at work. It's just me. He goes, they just sent me on a one Legger. I'm like, get out of my house. Are you joking me? You said this? So I just saw the other day on one of the other Facebook groups, I know there's a bunch of these roofing Facebook groups. And one of them was like, well, how do you handle a one Legger? And I was like, send me the One Leggers. I freaking love One Leggers. And the reason for that is I personally. And everyone's got their sweet spot of like, who they're really good with, you know, whether like Lonnie, for example, that other sales guy was something about absolute stud with like a blue collar, working class homeowner. He would close those left and right where I wouldn't. If I. If a lead came into the office, he would not have been my first choice to go send to like a $5 million house. Some fancy, rich, white collar guy. He just doesn't speak the language. And I do well in that world. I also do well selling to women.

I'm.

I'm gentler. I'm not huge stature. I'm not intimidating. I just have a gentler, I guess, impression I make on people where. Yeah, where another guy that worked with us was a bot. Literally a bodybuilder, huge dude. And some women loved him because, you know, he was all muscular and other people were intimidated by him. So everyone's got their sweet spot. For me, the one legger was great because it was just one person to pitch. And I didn't leave. I didn't want to come back because I knew if I could win them over, I won half the vote already. All I had to do was follow up, come back when the appointment went to set that follow up, and then work directly with the other significant other, the other spouse, whether it was a husband or the wife. So to me, a one legger is actually an easy deal. And I would do this. So I would show up, I would do my pitch, and I would always end every appointment or every phone call with a preset date and time for the next point of contact. Because following up if you suck at sales. I sucked at sales, by the way. I never made, seldom made a one call close when I started. And I still did 1.4 million. And that was years ago. 1.4 million now is probably okay, but not great. Back then was like a slam dunk deal. So for me on the one call close, I go get there, I pitch the mom, the dad, the husband, the wife, whatever, and then I say, here's the deal. I know you have to talk to your partner about this, so what I'd love to do is give you a friendly follow up call and then let's set a time for me to show up again. I'll answer any questions he or she has, we can talk next steps. How's that sound? Great. Perfect. I go get there, I pitch the mom, the dad, the husband, the wife, whatever, and then I say, here's the deal. I know you have to talk to your partner about this, so what I'd love to do is give you a friendly follow up call and then let's set a time for me to show up again. I'll answer any questions he or she has, we can talk next steps. How's that sound? Great. Perfect. So I always keep a pen. I don't have one on now because I'm in my office, but I keep a pen here. I'd pull it out, I'd blade my stance, I look at my paper, I do not make eye contact and I say, when's a good time for a friendly follow up call so I'm not catching you in the middle of dinner or something. And I wait. I set the expectation. That is a friendly follow up call, not me calling the badger. Because that's what all the sales systems like. Are you ready to move forward yet? Are you still interested in doing your roof together? And it's all these like close ended objection handling things like looking for the yes or no BS man. Just call up and be nice. When you set the expectation this will be a friendly follow up, you say, okay, great, Tuesday. When's a good time on Tuesday? So I'm not catching you in the middle of dinner putting the kids down to sleep. Oh, three o'. Clock. Perfect. I will call you at Tuesday at 3 or I'll show up Tuesday at 3. That way you have a date and time set. You're not going to end up in the voicemail loop when you make that call. It's very easy. Open. Hey, it's Adam, the roof strategist with a friendly follow up. And now I reference something about our appointment when we talk. When we talked, we were sitting in your front yard talking about your roof last Wednesday. Did you get a chance to speak with your husband, with your wife, with whoever yet or whatever their objection was, whatever they're waiting on. And then now we say, great, when would be a good time for me to come by? So I guess the first thing is the one legger. The fear of the one legger. I would just go out and I would hit neighborhoods that were more affluent and I knew that had a stay at home mom or dad because I loved it.

Yeah.

And then the second thing is the pushy clothes. I think the pushy clothes is the least tasteful thing. Don't get me wrong. You have to ask for the business. This is sales. But the cheesy. Are you ready to work together yet? Is this something you'd like to do with the like all the subtle cues they teach you like to nod to get the. Yes. It's garbage. You know, I do a whole thing on. On my favorite clothes. The if. Then if I can get your roof approved and if I can make sure that, you know, whatever their objections are, your garden's protected. And I can make sure that we keep price within your deductible. If I can do all that. Does it sound like this will work out? You'd like for me to move forward with your roofing project? Yes. Great. And now we slide over to it. So I guess the two things again, just to recap. The. The one legger I think is an incredible. And I can make sure that we keep price within your deductible. If I can do all that. Does it sound like this will work out? You'd like for me to move forward with your roofing project? Yes. Great. And now we slide over to it. So I guess the two Things again, just to recap, the one legger I think is an incredible opportunity. Now, some people may disagree and that's okay, but the proofs in the pudding, the proofs in my pocketbook from how many one leggers I sold and then two would be how to follow up and how to ask for the business without doing the pushy things that you. The very dated 80s sales tactics. Yeah.

And I know that we've gotten. I get that all the time. My wife is always looking, you know, hey, our, well, our deck is getting a little beat up. Let's call someone and get a quote. Our driveways, you know, well, maybe I want to make our three car driveway a little bit different. Let's get a vote on that. And she will not like, she's like, if you want to come out and do an estimate, come out and do an estimate. She's real honest with, you know, hey, you know, we're maybe looking in the next two years or something. So make a choice if you want to come out or not. But it's so funny the people that come out and badger her about that. Well, is your husband here or is that. And she's like, no. And if he's not here, it doesn't matter because I can make a decision. And you will get that every now and then. Right. And it's a.

Opportunities.

It adds opportunities.

Yeah.

So, you know, people are, Everyone is hope. Everyone is looking for like, I don't know what it is, you know, an analogy for it. Everyone's looking for the home run. Yeah, they are looking, you know, when we deal with it on a, on a daily basis where it's like, you know, how many leads can we generate for our business? Well, how many, you know, what's your closing percentage? Well, we want to close 100%. Well, that's not, you know, of course it's not going to happen. But, but then also back to what you were, you know, what you've kind of focused on a lot in this is you have a process for that.

Yeah, right.

There's not, this isn't, you're not just going in and doing this. You don't have the same sales process with the one legger that you do for the neighbor for the. Right. Everything is slightly different now. There's going to be overlap in those processes. But, but you understand what you're walking into. You understand what you're, you know, what, what the, the process that you can handle to manage that through the sale and to increase the odds of you getting that sale. So that and, and, and in the follow up, the same way. Exactly. Like people don't want to. People don't want to be sold to for sure. Right? That's the first thing that they. And there's so much selling going on all the time right now. How many phone calls a day do you get from spam? I don't know what happened to the do not call list, but the phone blows up and like when a storm comes through, they're getting hit up constantly non, stop, non stop. If you just. That slight differentiator in the way you're following up could make a big difference in your closing rate. And I guess the proof is in, you know, stories. What was his name that, you know, 40 roofs in a, in a six block radius. You know what I mean? Like Lonnie, you know, stories like that are proof that, hey man, this is. And think about it, think about yourself, right? How do you want to be sold to? You don't want to be that pushy. Sales stuff doesn't work on you or it shouldn't, right? It's a turn off, so.

It really is. Hey, can I share? You just. You brought something up that I wanted to chime in on if it was appropriate. I see this a lot. So I was. When I first started managing, I remember this was back before we had CRMs and everything was electronic. So when the lead came into the office, they were forwarded to my cell phone. Is the call forwarding? I'd answer them. I'd have to write down the lead information. By the way, I bet you the roofers listening to this are going to be laughing. That's how they do it. And, and I'll say, hey, let me get your information. And then one of our reps will call you back within 24 hours. Have you heard this, Jim? Take the lead. I'll call you back. So it cracked me up because we'd have like our, our white piece of paper where I write it on. And it was a carbon copy. So I'd keep a carbon copy as the main. The, the other piece would go into the salesman's like box at the office or get texted to them so they can make contact. And I was sitting down and I was like, man, it's storm sales. Like we got to have at least a 50 to 70% close rate. So I audited all of our sales, all of our. Forwarded to my cell phone is the call forwarding. I'd answer them. I'd have to write down the lead information. By the way, I bet you the roofers listening to this are going to be laughing. That's how they do it. And I'll say, hey, let me get your information. And then one of our reps will call you back within 24 hours. Have you heard this, Jim? Take the lead. I'll call you back. So it cracked me up. The lead sheets. And. And we had a dismal like 9% close rate. From an inbound lead. From an inbound lead. By the way, my calculations to date, for an average roofing company, a phone call will cost between 100 and $800 for an inbound phone call. When you calculate your total expenses on marketing, including that stupid truck rack. Truck rack you didn't need. All right, all right. And joking aside, they do look sharp. It is professional. My point, and bring that up, is that it's not going to make you more money. Right. It's an ego.

We love them for the pictures on the website.

Exactly. And it's an ego play. Right. And it does because we'd have like our white piece of paper where I write it on. And it was a carbon copy. So I keep a carbon copy as the main. The other piece would go into the salesman's like, box at the office or get texted to them so they can make contact. And I was sitting down and I was like, man, it's storm sales. Like, we got to have at least a 50 to 70% close rate. So I audited all of our sales. All of our. A good image out there. But my point is like, direct dollar. I'm a. I'm a dollar sense guy. Like, I put this marketing dollar out, what's it going to come back? I'd rather have my team drive around in Kia Souls, you know, and. And because they're going to make sales, I don't think they're going to make a significant amount of sales in the jacked up truck with the truck wrap. But that's another small tangent. But anyway, 100 to $800. All your marketing spend to get the phone to ring. So imagine you call up a barber to get a haircut and you say, hey, I'm calling for a haircut. And they say, great, one of our barbers will call you back in 24 hours. What do you do?

Call the next barber.

Call the next barber. I just spent time of my day to call you to make an appointment and you can't even give me a freaking appointment. Time lead sheets, and we had a dismal like 9% close rate from an inbound lead. From an inbound Lead. By the way, my calculations to date, for an average roofing company, a phone call will cost between 100 and $800. And I realized that our dismal close rate. And I forget the exact amount. I just pulled the number out. It was low. Like shockingly low. So then I dug deeper and deeper and I saw the notes were all the same. Called left voicemail.

Uh huh.

Call the left voicemail. That's it. So not only was the sales reps not following up diligently, we lost the opportunity. So I developed what I called the cable guy method. So when someone called the office in my admin, dug her heels in our office manager. Because as we grew, we routed all the calls to a corporate office and then did all of our dispatch from there. And I trained her on this new system. I wanted a test and she refused to do it. So I said forward the calls to me. I'll prove it to you. It works. So what I did is I'd answer the. For an inbound phone call. When you calculate your total expenses on marketing, including that stupid truck rack. Truck rack you didn't need. All right, all right. And joking aside, they do look sharp. It is professional. My only point bring that up. Is that it? It's not going to make you more money. Right. It's an ego.

We love them for the pictures on the website.

Exactly. And it's an ego play. Right. And it does put on. And I'd say yes, I would love to set an appointment for us to come. Out. Here's how we work. You tell me what day works for you. I'm gonna book a time in a three hour window and then within the hour, you're gonna get a phone call from the person who will be serving you letting you know the exact time that they can show up so you don't have to sit around and wait all day. So now we look like a hero. We're gonna convert that opportunity. By the way, I don't even care if anyone was available. What day is best for you, ma'? Am? Tuesdays. Perfect. And what mornings, evenings, or excuse me, mornings, afternoons, or even a good image out there. But my point is like direct dollar. I'm a, I'm a dollar sense guy. Like for sure I put this marketing dollar out, what's it gonna come back? I'd rather have my team drive around in Kia souls, you know, and, and because they're gonna make sales, I don't think they're gonna make a significant amount of sales in the jacked up truck with the Truck wrap. But that's things evenings. Excellent. I'm gonna put you down for Tuesday evening between 5pm and 8pm does that work? Or whatever the time is. Let's say four to six, four to seven. Yes. Another small tangent. But anyway, 100 to $800. All your marketing spend to get the phone to ring. Great, Peggy, thanks so much for calling. I'm going to dispatch the gentleman or gal who will be serving you. They'll be calling you within an hour. Don't worry if you can't pick up, they'll leave you a voicemail, let you know exactly what time they'll be there. Boom. You know what I do? I'd farm that lead out. I'd covet those leads like gold. So I'd send that group text out to everyone who's available because I know it's hard to keep track of everybody who's available. So imagine you call up a barber to get a haircut and you say, hey, I'm calling for a haircut. Well, I have a lead between here and there. Someone jumps on it. Now I'm booking around my customer schedule. I don't care. The salesman sob story I get. Well, I'm busy and I'm picking my kids up for school. And you know how these sales and they say, great, one of our barbers will call you back in 24 hours. What do you do?

Call the next barber.

Call the next barber. I just. Guys get. I don't really care what you've got going on. We're here to make some money and sell. Right? Or that's spent time of my day to call you to make an appointment. And you can't even give me a freaking appointment time? Seriously, My lead, I'm up in rotation. Well, guess what? They just. They just cost us 800 bucks for a phone call. And I want to show up. So if you can get there, you can have the lead. When I started to get competitive and I went from Mr. Nice Guy to like guys, I educated him. The phone costs 100 to $800 to ring and for you to show up. And for that lead, I don't care when you're available. Because we're in a service business.

That's right.

And we're going to serve our homeowners to look like a freaking hero. And I realized that our dismal close rate, and I forget the exact amount. I just pulled the number out. It was low. Like shockingly low. So then I dug deeper and deeper and I saw the notes were all the same. So when I started doing that. Our conversion rate went from like single digits, like 10% and under which I know, 10%, not a single digit, but close enough to about 70% because Paul left voicemail. Called left voicemail. That's it. So not only was the sales reps not following up diligently, we lost the opportunity. So I developed the appointment time. We didn't get caught in the voicemail loop. And the best part is when someone couldn't take the appointment, all they do is I'd say, hey, no worries, call them back. Because what's the worst. Hey. There was a scheduling snafu. I know. You talk with Adam or Monica, whatever their name was at the office and they put you down. We had a little snafu. I can't do this Tuesday. How's next? How's Thursday? Is there another time? But now in their mind, the appointment is set and that's it. The no voicemail loop and so many roofers. I just, they don't work. I called the cable guy method. So when someone called the office in my admin, dug her heels in our office manager because as we grew, we routed all the calls to a corporate office. Too busy. I get it. We're too busy to look at the books and just say, well, I just want more leads. No, you probably. And then did all of our dispatch from there. And I trained her on this new system I wanted to test and she refused to do it. So I said, forward the calls to me. I'll prove it to you. It works. So what I did is I'd answer the probably actually don't need more leads. You probably need better systems. Then you need to layer on the leads because once you get those systems in place, you'll be booking leads. And what's cool, when I helped a couple other companies roll this out, they were able to completely revamp their entire sales process. Hire a team that ran adjuster appointments only and then a production team. The sales guys were completely free to run appointments because they had so many and they just turned the faucet on on their lead gen with a guy like phone. And I'd say, yes, I would love to set an appointment for us to come out. Here's how we work you Jim and churn and burn. It was, it was amazing watching them grow. You tell me what day works for you. I'm going to book a time in a three hour window and then within the hour, you're going to get a phone call from the person who will be serving you letting you know the exact Row. And now one of them. I won't name names. I still follow them. It or not. One of the sales reps who I was out training time that they can show up so you don't have to sit around and wait all day. So now we look like a hero. We're going to. Did some door knocking with Price six years ago, just sent me a message on Facebook. And the owner of the company is. All I see is pictures of his yacht parties. So he's doing well. He's doing really, really well using this stuff.

So that's a simple lesson, right? The first simple lesson is answer the phone.

Convert that opportunity. By the way, I don't even care if anyone was available. What day is best for you, ma'? Am? Tuesdays. Perfect. And what mornings, evenings, or excuse me, mornings, afternoons, or evenings.

Which is amazing. Whenever I have a client that's coming to me and they're like, hey, you know, I'm not sure if this is working or not. You know, we're running these ads and I'm not sure if it's working a lot. The first thing I do is I go to their call log and I look at how many of the calls have been answered.

Mm.

Number one.

And I think evenings. Excellent. I'm gonna put you down for Tuesday evening between 5pm and 8pm does that work? Or whatever the time is. Let's say four to six, four to seven. Yes.

We've had this discussion before that we have a cool integration in all of our web forms, that it creates a phone call immediately. So someone fills out a form on your website and your office phone or your cell phone or whoever you choose to answer the phone. That phone is ringing. You pick up the phone, the customer's on the line. You set the appointment, and they don't go down the list. They're not moving on. As soon as you have that appointment set, they're not.

Great. Peggy, thanks so much for calling. I'm going to dispatch the gentleman or gal who will be serving you. They'll be calling you within an hour. Don't worry. If you can't pick up, they'll leave you a voicemail, let you know exactly.

Moving on to the next. They're not moving on to the next company because they hate this process.

Yep.

They don't want to talk to five salesmen. Right. They want. And then if you have the attitude like you have it and the soft approach now, they're not feel like they're being sold. You're developing trust. You're building up your Authority, what time they'll be there.

Boom. You know what I do? I'd farm that lead out. I'd covet those leads like gold. So I'd send that group text out to everyone who's available because I know it's hard to keep track of everybody who's available with them.

And. And you're just. It's so much easier of a process from start to finish. It's just. And so get that on the books. And I love that. The aspect there of, hey, we have three windows. Set the three windows and then figure it out.

Yeah. Doesn't even need to have anyone available.

Figure it out. If you, you know, like I have. I had to go pick up my twin boys from school today, from preschool. They're four and a half. I had to go pick them up today in the middle of the day. And hey, maybe, you know, stuff comes up, right. That, you know, things come up. Reschedule. Right. It's not that difficult. People are more understanding of that than you not picking up the phone.

Exactly. And what. Here's the other thing. Even if you frustrate them about the appointment time, that 1 in 30 leads that you frustrated, still a higher conversion rate than you trying this callback method.

That's right.

Right. And the re. And by the way, when you told me when we first met and you told me about that integration you have. Well, I have a lead between here and there. Someone jumps on it. Now I'm booking around my customer schedule, the lead form. It was the most brilliant innovation I have heard of in the digital marketing world. Specifically for roofers. I was telling a few people about it. I'm like, did you have any idea? And they're like, wow, that's freaking awesome. Like, and just to reiterate for everyone that doesn't get it, when someone. I don't care. The salesman sob story I get while I'm busy and I'm picking my kids up for school. And you know how these sales fills out that form. Your office phone rings. So like, let's say I'm running a PPC pay per click campaign. Someone clicks, they say, yeah, I want a free estimate or free inspection or whatever it is. Your office phone rings, you answer. Then it automatically dials out and is connecting you with the customer. So their phone, they're connecting you on the phone within tomb. Those guys get. I don't really care what you've got going on. We're here to make some money and sell. Right? Or that's my lead. I'm up in Rotation. Well, guess what? They just, they just cost us 800 bucks. Minutes of filling out that web form, which by the way, how fast?

It's like 20 seconds.

Yeah, 20 seconds. And what's crazy, all the, I spend a lot of my world in the, in the digital marketing sphere as well. And seeing how I think they say it's a five minute window that after.

Five minutes from a form or something.

Yeah. 80% drop off of actually making contact.

With the drop off. So if it goes to voicemail, everyone listening, if your phone goes to voicemail, if you get an email lead, if you're buying, if you're spending the $130 from HomeAdvisor on that lead, if you're not calling that person within five minutes, there's an 80% less chance of you closing that lead for a phone call.

And I want to show up. So if you can get there, you can have the lead. And when I started to get competitive and I went from Mr. Nice Guy to like guys, I educated him. The phone call, even getting contact with him.

Even making contact.

Exactly.

Even making contact with that lead. So take the opportunities that you can. And I think that's a good place to maybe wrap this up is to take the opportunities that you can.

Right.

So we started off talking about, about long term value of a client and.

You know, once a hundred to eight hundred dollars to ring and for you to show up and for that lead. I don't care when you're available. Because we're in a service business. That's right. And we're going to serve our homeowners to look like a freaking hero.

You get that once you get signed, that first customer working the neighborhood, you know, going after the 12 pack versus the six pack, it's a lot, right? It's a lot more fun to have a 12 pack. Not that, but you know, but you know, going after the neighborhood, getting these signs in the yard, having a great approach to getting to these people in the neighborhood.

So when I started doing that, our conversion rate went from like single digits, like 10%.

All the aspects of the soft closing.

And under which I know 10% is not a single digit, but close enough to about 70% because the soft approach.

With everything and then into hey man, pick up the phone. Because that's where it starts with, right. Pick up the phone or get out there and start knocking on doors. If you want a, if you want business today, there's been a storm.

Anywhere in your area, get the appointment time. We didn't get caught in the voicemail loop. And the best part is when someone couldn't take the appointment, all they do is I'd say, hey, no worries, call.

Them back, get in the car, get, get in your Civic or your jacked up truck and get out right on a door. Right. Yeah, let's. And pick up your phone and make sure that everything is happening. Man, I really appreciate you being on here today. Adam Benson, the roof strategist. Anything else? Anything else you want to want to leave the people with your social media? Everything else?

Yeah, let's do this. Before I leave people with where to find me, I want everyone to just leave with this one takeaway. This business is all about service and we overlook it with a hunger for sales and unfortunately a lot of times greed because there's a lot of money to be made. But be you and take care of people. When Jim, you talked about answering the phone and getting in touch with people because what's the worst. Hey, there was a scheduling snafu. I know. You talk with Adam or Monica, whatever their name was at the office and they put you down. We had a little snafu. I can't do this Tuesday. How's next? How's Thursday? Is it the biggest mistake I see owners making is thinking that they're super important. Well, I'm too busy. The phone's ringing. I'm on a roof. I'm doing this, I'm doing that. No one cares. Your clients don't care about how busy you are. All they care about is how you, how you make them feel. And during another time. But now in their mind, the appointment is set and that's it. The no voicemail loop and so many roofers, I just, they don't. That's really when. Whether you're growing a team, whether it's you on your own, if you make people feel good, you're going to win business. It's all about service. So I want to close with that. If anyone's interested in checking out my YouTube channel, jump on YouTube. Search anything with the word roofing sales in it. Chances are my video will be on page one. But it's the roof strategist. If you want to find my channel, everything's free. You'll find playlists there. I just started a 30 day sales channel, so you can opt into that and you'll get a bunch of videos to walk you through how to identify your sales goal. And if you are an owner that wants to. Too busy. I get it. We're too busy to look at the books and just say, well, I just want more leads. No, you probably actually don't need more leads. You probably need better systems. Then you need to hire and grow a sales team. I have an hour and a half long training that the complex on the leads because once you get those systems in place you'll be booking leads and what's coolation of roughly $70,000 worth of one on one coaching and testing I've done compiled into a free training and then you're welcome if you want any of the material from that video like the hiring ads that I've written, that's all available and I make my stuff easy. You download it comes you instantly, you fill in your information, you click print, you're using my hiring ads, you can use my marketing material. So it's all my YouTube channel. And again there's no obligation. I'm not going to push you into a sale. I'm going to say there's free information. If you like it, it's there for you. If not, I promise you walk away from with stuff. So Jim, thanks so much for having me. This has been awesome.

This has been the Roofing Success podcast. Have a great day.

Thanks.

If you would like to generate more sales through your digital marketing efforts please visit roofermarketers.com and get get a copy of the book Internet Marketing for roofing how to triple your sales and turn your roofing website into an online lead generation machine. Also check the training section of the website for guides on everything from running effective pay per click ads to how.

To When I helped a couple other companies roll this out they were able to completely revamp their entire sales process. Hire a team that ran adjuster appointments only and then a production team and the sales guys were completely free to run appointments because they had so many and they just turned the faucet on on their lead gen with a guy.

Like properly set up your Google my business listing. This has been another episode of the Roofing Success podcast.

Thanks for listening you Jim and churn and burn. It was, it was amazing watching them grow. And now one of them I won't name names, I still follow them on Facebook. Believe it or not, one of the sales reps who I was out training and did some door knocking with price six years ago just sent me a message on Facebook and the owner of the company is all I see is pictures of his yacht parties. So he's doing well. He's doing really really well using this stuff.

So that's a simple lesson, right? The first simple lesson is answer the phone right. Which is amazing. Whenever I have a client that's coming to me and they're like, hey, you know, I'm not sure if this is working or not. You know, we're running these ads, and I'm not sure if it's working a lot. The first thing I do is I go to their call log and I look at how many of the calls have been answered. Number one. And I think we've had this discussion before that we have a cool integration in all of our web forms, that it creates a phone call immediately. So someone fills out a form on your website and your office phone or your cell phone or whoever you choose to answer the phone, that phone is ringing, you pick up the phone, the customer's on the line, you set the appointment, and they don't go down the list. They're not moving on. As soon as you have that appointment set, they're not moving on to the next. They're not moving on to the next company because they hate this process.

Yep.

They don't want to talk to five salesmen.

Right.

They want. And. And then if you have the attitude like you have it and. And the soft approach now, they're not. Feel like they're being sold. You're developing trust, You're. You're building up your authority with them. And. And you're just.

It's.

It's so much easier of a process from start to finish. It's just. And so get that on the books. And I love that. The aspect there of, hey, we have three windows. Set the three windows and then figure it out.

Yeah. Doesn't even need to have anyone available.

Figure it out. If you, you know, like I have. I had to go pick up my twin boys from school today, from preschool. They're four and a half. I had to go pick them up today in the middle of the day. And hey, maybe, you know, stuff comes up. Right. That, you know, things come up. Reschedule. Right. It's not that difficult. People are more understanding of that than you not picking up the phone.

Exactly. And here's the other thing. Even if you frustrate them about the appointment time, that 1 in 30 leads that you frustrate is still a higher conversion rate than you trying this callback method.

That's right.

Right. And the. By the way, when you told me when we first met and you told me about that integration you have for the lead form, it was the most brilliant innovation I have heard of in the digital marketing world, specifically for roofers. I was telling a few people about it. I'm like, did you have any idea? And they're like, wow, that's freaking awesome. Like, and just to reiterate for everyone that doesn't get it, when someone fills out that form, your office phone rings. So like let's say running a PPC pay per click campaign, someone clicks, they say, yeah, I want a free estimate or free inspection or whatever it is. Your office phone rings, you answer. Then it automatically dials out and is connecting you with the customer. So their phone, they're connecting you on the phone within two minutes of filling out that web form. Which by the way, how fast?

It's like 20 seconds.

Yeah, 20 seconds in. What's crazy, all the. I spend a lot of my world in the, in the digital marketing sphere as well, seeing how I think they say it's a five minute window that.

After five minutes from a form or something.

Yeah. 80% drop off of actually making contact.

With the drop off. So if it goes to voicemail, everyone listening, if your phone goes to voicemail, if you get an email lead, if you're buying, if you're spending the $130 from, from HomeAdvisor on that lead, if you're not calling that person within five minutes, there's an 80% less chance of you closing that lead.

Even getting contact with them.

Even making contact.

Exactly.

Making contact with that lead. So take the opportunities that you can. And I think that's a good place to maybe wrap this up is to take the opportunities that you can.

Right.

So we started off talking about long term value of a client and once you get sign that first customer working the neighborhood, you know, going after the 12 pack versus the six pack, it's a lot. Right. It's a lot more fun to have a.