The Roof Report That Sells Itself: The “i35” Framework w/ Jon Broce

If you want to close more retail sales, it starts with a shift in how you have a conversation with a homeowner. And what so many roofing salespeople overlook is the importance of the actual inspection. That's the real magic, or as John Brose calls it, kind of the roadmap to retail. So, in this interview with John Brose, we're going to dive into his I-35 framework. And if you're not familiar with John, the dude is brilliant. He's a new mentor here in the Roofing Strong Alliance. By the way, membership is now included for the TAMKO EDGE certified contractors. There's a link in the description. Jon Brost is a total powerhouse. Now he runs Day 41 Thrive, uh, helping coach contractors across the country. But before that, he was a contractor just like you. He took MHI from $3 million to $17 million in 4 years. But this is what was incredibly interesting. His retail close rate average, company average that they reported Guess it? Double it? You're probably still not high enough because it was 58.7%. This is an art of developing processes, systems. Not only that, but a sales system that was repeatable and coachable. And I'm so honored to have you here. John, welcome, brother. Thanks for being here.

Excited, man. This is gonna be a good day. Thank you, Adam.

I'm super excited. You and I met at a TAMCO event. You walked me through your sales presentation while we were both speaking at the event, and I was like, dude, that is brilliant. Of course, after the announcement when we joined the TAMKO family, uh, you've been in the Roofing Strong Alliance presenting, and I— you dove into this I-35 framework. So set the stage for us before we get into— like, what does I-35 mean and how do I use it? Stick around to the end. John's gonna reveal each and every step. This is a video or podcast episode. You will want to take notes. I promise you that. Take notes, 'cause he's gonna give you some word-for-word scripts to start using. So John, kind of set the table of where this I-35 framework comes in in the in-home sales experience. Yeah.

No, that's a great question. So it comes in after the inspection. So we've been in the attic space, we go outside and we hop up on the roof and then we come back inside. Mm-hmm. And I'll preface with saying that one of the main things that makes this thing actually work in this process is we're doing discovery and we're building pain. We're not giving any answers. A lot of sales reps, what I see is they just start puking out answers. Oh, it's probably just a pipe boot. Oh, it's just probably this. Oh, I've seen this a million times. Oh, I've done this for 20 years. You gotta just not say a word. You just gotta listen And so, one of the main things that I would say is we have this saying, it's two ears and two eyes and one mouth. We should listen and look twice as much as what we speak. And so, anyway, so that's kind of where that starts at is like, we've already done our attic inspection, we come down, we give them a little shoe and nod and like build some urgency like, "Man, I don't know, just let me check the outside of the house now." Then you hop up on the roof and the whole idea of the roof inspection, of course, take 500 pictures, right? But we only wanna show them 3 pictures, at the most 5. So the I is gonna be inspection, the 3 is gonna be the number of pictures, and then there's 5 magical questions, if you will, but there's 5 questions that we ask that are more like go deeper. Typically, on every picture, we're asking the 5 questions, and then, which we chat about those, and there's probably at least 2 to 3 more that go even deeper. Right.

So, yeah. So, before we get into this framework, which again, I is inspection, 3 represents that we're going to share 3 photos from our inspection, which might be different than how some folks are doing it, specifically people that have been trained in different modalities that might use video inspections. So, again, everything that you learn here on this channel, your goal as a listener/viewer is to take the information that is relevant to you and the wisdom and the nuggets and find what is best in your process. I'm so excited to share John's process. I just ask that you share— come with an open mind to understand this philosophy. So again, I is inspection, 3 is 3 photos, and then 5 questions to ask. Before we get into what those 3 pictures are, the order in which you show them, and these 5 questions, John, will you just share a little bit more of the, the— let's say the top 2, 3, maybe 4 or 5 mistakes that salespeople make in the home that because you've been out traveling, training companies in person, like 2 a day almost. I don't even remember, like, I don't even know if you know what time zone you're in right now. But I know you've been just training a massive amount of teams. What are the mistakes that are made when showing inspection results?

Yeah, no, that's a great question. So the main thing is we try to be the hero, right? That's the number one thing. If we learn to step back and be a guide and a mentor and just ask questions. So the number one mistake is being a hero. I'd say number two is telling them instead of asking them, right? This is a question-based sales approach that, you know, it's opposite of what most guys have been taught, right? So this is meant to be a tactical empathy. You know, that's what we call it. Like, this is very calibrated questions, very very tac— is tactical in how we do everything. But like, you know, I would say that's probably the top 2. The top 3 is they show way too many pictures. So, and if we're building the emotional curve— and so let me back up here with this too. So sales, there's a couple things about sales. So sales is tactical empathy and the art of persuasion, right? We all understand that. But there's also another layer here. It's either emotional or it's logical.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And so if it becomes logical, right, this is one of the things for the sales reps. If it's logical and logical only, we don't need sales reps, right? We can replace you with software right now. If it's all about price, we could save money and not pay the commissions and those things. So I'm saying it's like that, I just wanna set up that framework because we built the whole system to be the emotional curve to pull the homeowner through this journey that you're guiding them through. So what winds up happening, number 3 there that we were talking about, one of the issues that we see is we show them too many pictures. So you can't build that emotional curve when you just keep showing them and showing them and showing them and showing them. We had to slow down and ask them and ask them and ask them and ask them because I got to get to understand like what this is making them feel, reading the right body language. Mm-hmm. You know, am I on the right track? Did I pick the right pictures or not? So that's how we say it's 3 to 5 pictures, but typically it's all done in 3 pictures.

Yeah, I love that. And right before we get to it, because I do want to jump into those 3 pictures, because I love the arc, which you'll see what we mean here in a second. I put a note when you were talking about the mistakes, be a hero, tell, don't ask, and then showing way too many pictures, the top 3. I personally found and resonated the most with telling and not asking, that folks get off the roof and they're just like, here's the findings, here's what you need, here's your problem, here's our solution, we're the best product, best service, best warranty, best company, best barf. That's what I call it, right? Barfing the solutions, like word vomiting on them. And then it doesn't go well. So, we're gonna solve that. So, you did your inspection, you got the 3 photos, lay out the magic. What are those 3?

So the magic of this, right, is to build that emotional curve is the first picture has to be a bad picture, right? So whatever that is, if it's a nail pop or missing shingle or whatever it is that you wanna do. And then you gotta keep things relatable. So we say that we speak on a 5th grade level. Sheep don't eat complicated grass, right? So you don't wanna overspeak things, don't confuse anybody. But we wanna show them the picture. I don't say what it is. I just ask them a question like, "Hey Adam, I don't know, but can you see this?" Mm-hmm. It's all acts, right? I just show them the picture and ask them if they can see it. But it's all about the tonality as well. So like the first one's gonna be a bad picture. The middle picture is actually a good picture. So when you were talking about the emotional curve, I'm bringing them down, I wanna bring them back up 'cause then we're getting ready to bring them all the way down to the bottom. So it's going to be bad, good, and worst. So by the time you get to the worst one, this is when my tonality is going to come way down, you know, and we can do some of that in a minute. But like, I want to be bad as concerned, like this is it right here. Good, like I'm upward inflection. I'm really talking about this. Well, here's a good thing about your route, right? I'm going to use just 3 of the questions there. And then Miss Michonne is like, this is the one that really concerns me the most, right? This is the one that I really think that I couldn't sleep if I didn't tell you about this. Let's go. Let me show you what this looks like. But I don't know, but can you see this? And so it's all about bringing them through the tonality. So you become the thermostat and you set the tune and you set the temperature with everything that you do based on your tonality. And that's what that whole framework is built for. Yeah.

It's magic when you think of bad, good, worst. I have shared, Jon, I don't know if you've heard me say this, that our job in sales is to be what I call a feeling architect. We get to design the feelings that we can create with our conversations. And our job, this, and actually, you don't need to agree with this, I'm just going to share my opinion, is to make the homeowner feel comfortable, but they don't, it doesn't necessarily, comfortable to be with us. And similar, you know, even when a good friend comes to you, we can have hard conversations, but you're there and it's a comfortable setting to have those hard conversations. So, by showing the bad picture, and you and I share a similar philosophy in my Car Park Formula I teach, that we do some framing and some education, then show the photo and say, "Do you see this? Yes. What is it that you see?" And then the homeowner describes it. And that way, they're taking ownership of the situation or the problem as opposed to me saying you have a problem because people don't like to be told they have a problem. But behavior changes when we take ownership of that problem.

Mm-hmm.

So, I love that you're doing that. Here's a bad picture. You know, tell me about it. What are your thoughts? Now they're taking ownership. Good is like, hey, we're highlighting some good things too, right? Of course, they're expecting a salesperson to be like, it's terrible, it's bad, buy a roof, buy a new roof today, free inspection, turn roof replacement, and I'm the best guy to buy it from, and it's only $20,000. Doesn't go well. So, I love that. And then the worst is bringing up that concern to bring them into the place of, okay, I see what's going on with my roof, and it's probably time for me to actually do something about it. So, it's a beautiful arc to bring someone to as opposed to just going straight for the worst picture. Anything else on the psychology of the good, better, worst arc before we move on to the 5 questions?

No, I think that's exactly the way to think about it because you want to be the guide and be the expert guide too, right? Because you want to— because if I only show them bad and I'm only giving them just the bad, bad, bad, bad, it's like, well, they've heard that song and dance from somebody else. Nobody ever gave them just a slight bit of hope.

Yeah.

Right? And so that's part of the art of it. It's like, I want to give them the slight bit of hope because I mean, it needs to be real and true. Don't get me wrong here, but like, I don't want to lie to anybody, you know, either way, like bad, worse, good, like in any of the three sectors there, I still want to be true with it. But you're actually taking them through that roller coaster while they're looking at the picture and they're giving you the answer. That's where the art's at. Yeah. 'Cause I'm not telling them what's wrong. Like they're asking me more of what's wrong.

True is the only way to do it. And the truth is on most roofs, even terrible roofs, there's probably a couple of elements that are done okay. Eh, all right, maybe with rare exception, okay? I know we've seen some crazy things. I gotta get their back. I'm like, ah, maybe, maybe not. But my point is there are sadly a lot of, sales tactics that have been used that I am not a fan of that oversensationalize the condition of a roof.

And I heard—

I, in fact, years ago, I dealt with this and I chose to no longer work with this company because I felt that their sales process was oversensationalizing the condition of a roof and the implications that it had. Our job is to simply be a The difference, by the way, between a reporter and a journalist is very simple. A reporter goes up on the roof and says, this is it. Like, here's your roof report. Like, da-da-da, right? But a journalist can say, here's the report and here's what, here's how to interpret those findings and what they mean. And that's why we see the difference between a reporter, which is on the news and they cycle through, you know, local news channels, or the journalists that get featured in these big magazines and they travel around the world. Doing these exposés and talking about, you know, current affairs. That's the—

Yeah.

—journalist reporter. So, our job is to be a journalist, is to report the facts and help our homeowner take ownership of understanding what they are. So, totally love it. I'd love to get into the questions because I think a lot of sales folks, you know, going back to your question, say tell, don't ask, is they don't engage the homeowner to understand where they're at so they can make a decision that's best for them, and to help the salesperson understand what is it that I— how can I best serve my homeowner by giving them the information they need to make an informed decision. So let's hit those 5 questions. By the way, pro tip, if you are a note-taker, get out your notepad because we're about to get some scripts here that can really help improve your sales process. Jon, let's hit them one at a time.

Yeah, and the cool thing is it's not really a script, it's literally just a quick question. And, uh, what I would say too, a pro tip with this Never use the word why in the home. It's always only hows, whats, wheres, whens, cans. I never wanna use the word why. But we start with question number 1 is gonna be, I don't know, but can you see this, Adam?

Mm-hmm.

I'm gonna ask him, can you see this? And the reason why we ask, can you see this? One is it's ownership, right? Because what happens a lot of times is homeowners, they had that leak 6 months ago, but guess what? It only leaks when it rains. So it hasn't rained in 6 months. So they actually literally put up these blinders because I don't want to have to deal with it. But if I'm going to deal with it, like, this is the psychology of people. If I see it and notice it and talk about it, then I got to deal with it. We do that now with her family, with our— whatever is going on in life, right? So we do that. So the whole premise of this is I want them to see it and then have ownership over that, right? So I don't know, but can you see this?

Yeah.

This is going to be like, how long have you noticed this? Or have you ever noticed this? One of the two ways, right? How long have you noticed this? Or have you ever noticed this? Okay. And then the third one is going to be, has anybody ever showed you this? And so the reason why that we want to ask some of these three questions here, I kind of pause there, is I made a great mistake one time when I was a sales rep out there. I'm going, hey, listen, but we— I mean, I was using my own script, right? Or my own questions here, like, hey, I don't know if you can see this. Did you ever notice this before? Listen, so has anybody ever showed you that? Well, listen, because this is what's wrong. It's so bad. The last guy that did it, like I started giving them the bad things and then the guys, I was like, "So who'd you have do this?" The guy was trying to competitor kill this, right? You know, 'cause we are taught to be aggressive with everything and I was learning to put together my own I-35 framework with this. And so what went up happening was the guy's dad that did it and he had died like, well, like 4 weeks prior to that. So I totally just kicked the guy and his dad while he was down inadvertently. I wasn't thinking about that. I was just trying to get rid of the, getting rid of the bad handyman guy the guy that you hired, right? I was trying to kill the villain. Well, it was his dad. And so I learned a really valuable lesson there. Like, one, like, you know, I saw the man cry, right? So that was not good. Um, and I— and then I cried with him, and I felt totally, like, terrible. And I never want to feel that, that again. So a lot of times what I tell refs is, like, the reason why do we ask these questions is to find out what's going on with that. And so, like, have you ever noticed this? Has anybody ever, you know, showed you this before? So yeah, you know what? I had it repaired. Oh, cool. Well, tell me some more about that repair. It's like I want to dive deeper, but to give you the 5 questions. So I don't know if you can see this. How long have you noticed this? Has anybody ever showed you this? And then, I mean, for all my males out there, especially married males, this is a good one to use at home too, right? But how does that make you feel? Right? I know it's a crazy question. It's not normal for us as as alpha guys and alpha women in sales to say, how does that make you feel? But it's one of those questions where when it's asked the right way, it's asked in the right context, it's super powerful. I want to know what are they feeling right now because I haven't told them anything that's wrong. Right? And then the fifth question is going to be, well, what do you— I mean, what would you like to do about it? What is your opinion on how to fix this? And that sounds counterintuitive, right? Because I'm the expert, I should be just telling you, this is how we're gonna fix this, Adam. But what you wind up getting is they got ownership and now I've got buy-in. They tell me what is it they're thinking.

That's brilliant.

So if they wanna do a repair, guess what? I do repairs, right? If it's not repairable, but they wanna do a repair, guess what? Hey, listen, so after seeing all these pictures, would you agree the roof is just not repairable at this point? So I'm able to help still guide them, right? Or they say, yeah, man, I want to repair them. Well, I did a very bad job of my tonality and presenting the pictures. I'm going to say, so I just seen those, like, what would make you think that you want to get it repaired? Help me understand that, right? I didn't say you have to replace it. I just want them to make that decision. I'm pulling them through the whole objection game of, oh, let's just repair this stuff.

Yeah. John, this is art. This is the art of communication and giving an amazing experience to the people you serve. To get them to understand what's going on, take ownership, and then guide themselves through the process so they can be their own hero in making a decision that, that they are proud of. I really appreciate you sharing this. I absolutely love number 5, what would you like to do about it? Because this creates the rest of the conversation to help you earn the customer's business. If you liked this video and you want to work with John and I in the trenches, or just get even better training to help your team in the home, click the link in the description to learn more about becoming a member of the Roofing Strong Alliance. And remember— Membership is now included at no additional cost for the TAMCO EDGE contractors. John, thanks so much for being here. We'll see you on the next one.

Yes, sir. Let's go.