The Key To Becoming A Successful Online Coach

I'm sure you would just love to be sat there one day in like a big fucking leather chair at an office desk, just working with all your clients from your laptop. And I was like, yeah, that sounds like the dream.

In this episode, we're joined by Adam Haley, owner of Online Trainer Education. Adam's helped thousands of personal trainers transition from the gym floor to run a successful online coaching business.

The OT has been the OT since day one. Never changed because it fucking works.

And in this episode, we run through exactly what you need to know if you would like to become an online coach.

If you know that you want to be an online coach, I just don't see the, the point in wasting time on the gym. Four, because it is a completely different skill set.

Biggest mistakes for Adam has seen in his experience in the past.

I see obviously a lot of fitness business mentors and I see a lot of them force it in terms of they haven't even hit capacity in their own coaching business. So I've got one of my students who's pissed off. So I got a message two days ago. Who's pissed off? Just do your research, dig back a little bit. You will save yourself a lot of money, basically.

We hope you enjoy this episode.

Adam, welcome to the Fitness Marketing Agency podcast. I knew about you. I've seen your ads, I've seen your content, I've seen the results that you get. Personal trainers. And then at the gym that both me and Charlie train at, we met one of your team, Sam Mead. And then that's how we've connected. That's how you're in our office today. For everyone who's either listening or watching this on YouTube, let's go way back. How did you get started in the fitness industry?

Yeah, good question. So firstly, super cool to be here, Love the setup. I'm super geeking out over all of this. So I got into the industry. So I played sports when I was younger, football, rugby, boxing and so on. Had something called blounts disease, which is like bowed legs. Had to have both my legs surgically broken. Was in a wheelchair for eight weeks. Non weight bearing, just got skinny, lost like a lot of weight. I started trying to teach myself to walk before the physios instructed me to. So they signed me off and I never got proper rehab. So I joined a gym to try and put some muscle back on and I just thought like, what's the quickest? Like, who knows how to the quickest bodybuilders? So I bought these bodybuilder magazines, start training myself in the gym. Then I'd have school friends and stuff ask me if I can help them and then I just got bitten by the bug and 16 got qualified. I've been in the industry since the early years.

What were you doing? How did your day look? Were you gym instructing, personal training, teaching classes?

Yeah. So to get my foot in the door I got qualified in the gym but no gym because I was 16, no gym would give me experience. So it's this big like circle of like how do I get experience if you give me experience? So I ended up agreeing to be a lifeguard at Nuffield in Crawley. Did that 40 hours a week and then I then agreed to do 20 hours gym floor, 20 hours lifeguard and then eventually full time gym instructor, then personal trainer. Did 11 years on the gym floor, the last five of which in London at like a private one to one facility. And then that's when obviously I moved online after that.

Exactly the same route that I took. Lifeguard is it Jim shot the pt. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, there we go.

Yeah, interesting.

Not too far away from each other either. You're in Hayward. If you're in Crawford, 20 minutes down the road.

Oh shit. Same, same sort of path.

Yes.

And then even now what we do really is quite similar. Right. You're just for predominantly bricks and mortar. I'm online. The same principle.

Yeah, yeah, it's funny. So you started coaching clients on the gym floor, then you went to London. I guess you were commuting an hour.

From where you were, hour and a half each way. So I'd be up at 4:30 in the morning. So obviously lived in Crawley, worked in London. So 4:30 in the morning I would get up on a 4:55 train in for my first client, 6:30am I'd. Depending on the day of the week I'd finish my last client at either 8 or 9pm and then it would be an hour and a half back. So it'd be back at like between 11 and 12 most days. So it was like for five years it was like pretty much four hours sleep every day. You know during the winter like getting up in the dark on my way to Three Bridges train station on the Tubes Underground. Working in an underground gym.

No daylight.

No, exactly. No. You wouldn't have a clue what the weather's like outside. Finish at 9:00 clock at night it's dark back on the tube which is underground. Back in the train it was miserable. I remember just like family and stuff. Whenever I'd see my, my mum or Whatever, you know, she'd be like, do you not feel that you're a hypocrite? You're teaching people like health and fitness. She's like, and you, you look like, you know, like I was training. Of course, it was like having to be squeezed in around clients. But like big bags under my eyes just burnt out. I'd have one day off a week, which was a Sunday, and my partner at the time would want to, you know, go to like Blue Water shopping or go to London for the day. And I would just sleep. I'd just be KO'd. I was, yeah, brutal.

But I guess when you took that role in that London gym, really excited progression of your career. I'm sure you learned a lot as well. But then how did, how did you feel? Like every day just doing that.

Yeah. So at the beginning it was just like means to an end. So I remember, I think, the role that I'd agreed initially. I started as like a junior trainer for them. And I think I was being paid 1800 pounds is 18k a year, I think it was. And I had to spend like three and a half of that on my train fare. So it's like, you know, 15 grand left over, really. Which, when you break it down per month was not a lot. I remember sitting with an accountant and he was like, you realize that you're technically worse off doing this than you were just P.T. ing and Crawley. And then it sucked, to be frank, but it was that I know I'm in the right place around the right people. I'm like honing my skill set of becoming like a really solid coach. And then I'm also sort of paying attention to the business side of things. And I remember talking to the owner of the business. We were walking around London one day and I remember saying to him, like, what's next for me? And he's like, dude, you're 22. Why are you thinking about that? And I was like, because when I'm 42, I don't want to be here. I don't want to be counting reps on the gym floor, getting up at 4:30 in the morning again. And he's like, no, you got plenty of time to figure that out. Obviously wanted to just keep me there as a coach. And that's what led to me, obviously, eventually sort of breaking away and doing my own thing.

Had that awareness at that age because, you know, we speak to so many people in the industry and they get to that later stages of their career.

And they're still trading time for money essentially.

I see so many of my ex colleagues still just doing it, still either at that gym or they've sidestepped or actually gone down a rung on the ladder and they're, they're perhaps inferior gyms, they're still doing the same. I'm just like, man, like they're probably.

Capable of much more as well. It's just maybe they've just not, not being guided in the right direction.

Yeah, Yep. Just either inner beliefs or just settling, just comfortable. Great for them now. But I'm just always thinking like right, five years from now, what's next? Five years from now, what's next? Do I want to, am I still happy doing this?

And I think long term for whether it's a PT or just general fitness professional, you need to be looking to how do I create the result without me having to directly be running that session, being the coach, like whether that is run a gym, you know, how do you build the system out to where someone can walk in, have a great experience and they get results or whether it's online, like how does that process take place about me directly being right there for that full hour? And so many people are trapped in the day to day of just working, trading time for money and then they get to their late 30s and they're like, what am I doing with my life?

For me it's like, you know, in that one hour you're impacting one person where you could, you have the skill set to impact, you know, hundreds if not thousands of people. It's just you're using the wrong method to do it. And I'm not saying that one on one training is should, is dead or people shouldn't do it. There's a time and a place when people need one on one like face to face pt. But I would urge anyone watching or listening to this to like think bigger and think of different options.

Yeah, well you could build like a one to one business. But it's just I think the principle, wherever regardless of what the model is, whether it's in person, online, one to one, semi private, you need to look long term and think how do I build a system where people can pay for the service, get the result without me having to be there? Because then you can rest easy at night, know that there's something there generating income because you don't want to get to those later stages of life having to still get up at 4:30 in.

The morning right on top of that as well. Like even if say they absolutely feel that they love One to one pt. When you look at them, they've been charging the same price for like five years. So okay, let's say you love one to one pt. Do you really still want to be doing like 30 to 50 sessions a week or at this stage? If you've been in the industry for 10, 15 years, why are you not like the expert in the space? Why are you not charging multiple hundreds of pounds per hour and only working with a select few clients? I don't know if you guys are aware of Todd Herman.

No, he's like, yeah, the business got a few books, right?

Yeah, he's got the alter ego effect. He like coached Kobe Bryant. He's like mindset. And I was talking to him and I believe he created like a training academy type thing, like a system, sold it to Real Madrid. He's a co owner of Upcoacher software. I was talking to him and he's like, Adam, he's like, I don't need to do one to one sessions anymore. He's like, but I do it because I enjoy it. But he charges a hundred thousand dollars for the year. So he's like, you know, and I'm not saying everybody can go charge that, but it's like if you enjoy pt, if you look back, if you're still charging the same 40 quid, 60 quid, 80 quid or whatever it is, possession, why is nothing progressed? Whether it is going down group online, owning a facility or just scale price, they just don't do any of it. They just sit in plateau.

So you're in this London gym, you're coming to the end of that five year period and I guess you, you were wanting more. What was the decisive decision to switch and go online? How did you do it? Was it immediate? Let's, let's just talk all things that transition.

Yeah. So what it was was I, it's funny, every year I get tagged in the same Facebook memory of me on my bed. It would probably be like over 10 years ago now, 12 years ago, as just like sheets of paper with like clients names on it, calculator, laptop. And I didn't realize I was basically doing online coaching back then. So I was this little nerd on these bodybuilding forums and I would have people that wanted to be coached by me, but they didn't live in London or they couldn't afford the prices, you know, that the gym was charging. I'd also have clients that would work with me, move, you know, house or whatever, still want to be coached. And then I just Said, oh, why don't we just do it with Remo? It wasn't called online coaching, but it was basically the same thing.

So what. What year was this?

This would have been, like, what year would it have been? I'm guessing 2014. Like minimum, like 8. Before online coaching was the thing before Instagram, before any of that. And it was just me literally sitting there with a calculator, working out pen and paper what their things would be, then putting into a Word document, like Microsoft Word, no Google Docs or anything, and then emailing it to them. And then they would just check in. But we didn't really call it a check in. You know, it was just let me know how they're getting on, and I think sometimes we'll do the odd phone call. So I was doing all of that. And then one of the big things about me is I'm a massive introvert. I'm not this. I don't have gift of the gab. I hate small talk. I'm not good at networking, which is the polar opposite of, like, most good gym floor pts. They can usually work a gym floor. That's not my skill set. My skill set was just client results. I was talking to one of my previous colleagues, guy called Nick, who was the opposite to me, very loud, very extroverted. And he just laughed and he was like, I think I was doing something for my laptop for a client. And he just went something about, I'm sure you would just love to be sat there one day in like a big fucking leather chair at an office desk. Just work with all your clients from your laptop. And I was like, yeah, that sounds like the dream. To not have to sit and make small talk in between sets all the time. I'd love that. It never really clicked again that this was like a thing. And then of course, Instagram started coming about, and then online coaching started to make some waves. So I worked with a few more clients. I started delivering it on behalf of that gym. I worked up to about 50 odd clients, 60 clients there online as a separate inc. Just ended up preferring that and realizing my clients were getting better results from it. And then at the same time, the owner of that gym messed myself and one of my colleagues around with our bonus structure. So we used to get paid a bonus at the end of each year based on who got the most transformations out of every coach. And like, two years in a row, we won it. We got the most transformations out of anybody in the gym. But that year he totally shafted us. And it just Made us feel really like undervalued and like fuck it, why don't we do this thing alone? So we ended up teaching a seminar in Hong Kong to other pts about how to get better client results. Went for a drink one of the evenings and we were like, why don't we launch this thing together? Both enjoy online coaching, both introverts, both like to think we're quite good coaches. And then we just agreed on a date. We, we actually tried setting up like a coaching app. This is before, you know, trainer eyes, my PT Hubble. These things were really around, or at least they were probably around but people weren't that aware of them. So we felt that we had to come with this all singing, all dancing app. And I think we'd saved like seven, eight grand each, which was a lot of money at that point. We'd scraped all the stuff together, put it in and this thing was fucking terrible. It was so bad. So we ended up starting the business between us basically like 15 grand under this app that was non functional and didn't work. Then we, you know, kind of winged it from there. So yeah, that's the story.

And back then what was the product that the consumer was buying?

It was basically just everything that we had done on the gym floor with like body composition transformations. It was that just via online. So it was like the classic sort of weekly check ins training, nutrition plans, supplementation plans. We would get gen pop clients to do photo shoots. I'd work with like bikini competitors and help them. And then I'd come up with this cool way of delivering nutrition that we called like the hybrid nutrition tracker that now somebody else has made a fuckload of money from because I wasn't smart enough to you know, license it myself, which I kicked myself for. So yeah, that was it.

And how long did you do that for? And at what point did online trainer education come about?

Yes, this is interesting as well actually is. So I see obviously a lot of fitness business mentors and, and I see a lot of them force it in terms of they haven't even hit capacity in their own coaching business. They've maybe done like I see you laughing, right? They've maybe done like a fucking A6 or an 8k month themselves once and suddenly they're a business coach.

We could go jam on this 20 minutes podcast.

There's so many people, right, who are like playing the big and maybe they had like one 10k month like once.

And then they times that by 12 figure business.

You go on that company's house or you go like research, it's.

And they're still taking on clients themselves. Whereas Akash and I basically, you know, we, within two years we built it to a team of six coaches. Year one we did I think like 255,000. Year two, we're on track for about half a million. There was a clash of personalities. We were warned about it going into business that like business partnerships rarely work. Da da da da da. We were like oblivious. No, no, we've been best friends.

I did the same mistake. So many people do it.

You do it, don't you? I think it's a crutch, isn't it? Like you go into business when you're new to it. It just helps to have no business. Yeah, nothing in handshake. Like we're best mates, you know, been a holiday together, been through breakups together. We got each other's back, we want the same things. So nice idea in theory. And then you start realizing that actually you know, you have differences of opinion and stuff like that. So yeah, it got to the point where we fell out. I decided to leave the business. But what we'd set up, and this is kind of interesting how the OT came about is our biggest problem was finding good coaches to work for us. It was the biggest problem was finding quality coaches as in to deliver the training on our.

So I understand everyone listening, watching, understands. So back then what did a typical day look like and why was you building a team of quality coaches? Is it because you had so many online clients?

Yes. Yeah. So basically so Akash and I watch this online fitness business called RNT Fitness. I've still got the, and I've shown it to my students. I've still got our financial projection sheets that we did where we'd planned in our first year to earn like 12k per year each. There's an email from me saying to Akash, I'm going to have to go take on a part time job. And then it just grew way faster than you know, what we'd anticipated. So we had take on a coach to help manage our overflow. We both hit around 100 clients each was about 200 clients. The business took on a coach, they got filled out, took on another coach, filled them out, another coach and so on. So that's where we ended up with, with the six coaches that we had probably about 500ish clients in the business. So the problem was finding quality coaches. So we'd come up with the idea of launching something called the RNT Academy. So this was going to be like a 10, 12 week, like course mentorship for personal trainers that want to learn how we were getting the results that we were getting with our clients. And at the end of it, if you graduated and you were good enough, you'd be on the short list to then become one of our. So it was basically like a funnel, I guess into being a coach for.

Us, but all focus on the product.

Side of things, just on delivery, nothing on business, just nutrition, mindset training, supplement, just everything we were doing to get these amazing like before and after images. It was teaching these trainers that. And then it was, you may end up getting a role with us. If you prove yourself over the 12 weeks, you'll be on a short list. The next time we hire, you'll get the first look in versus us advertising externally. So we started set up. I was the one that was really excited about that because I just love like educating was Akash, my previous business partner. He was like, I don't know if this is a distraction. I don't know if we should be doing this. I'm like, it makes sense. There's such a demand for it. Other trainers are watching the results we're getting and they would love to work online and this is perfect. So anyway, before the first intake takes place, we'd sold it out. That's when we split. So as part of the exit agreement, I agreed on like a set price to walk away from. I would take my current clients that were in the business with me and then I wanted to take on R and T Academy myself. It's the smartest move that I made. So that then got turned into something. I launched the first intake of it and I remember launching it. And in the top left corner of the slides where you'd usually have like your branding and stuff, it just said to be named. I've still got like the recordings of all of this. I remember on the first webinar that I did saying, hey, if anybody can come up with a cool name for this, I don't know what this mentorship thing's going to be. I'll hook you up, I'll incentivize you, get some private or whatever it was. Evidently nobody gave me a cool name, which is why we're stuck with the online trainer education, which is very bland and boring. And then over time I was getting more and more business questions. And it started from like 12 modules that were all about being a better coach to then like 10 of those two business and it's eight and four business. Then it was like all of the one to one calls are about how to get more clients. And then I just started really enjoying the business stuff and it sort of happened organically is my point is I feel that a lot of online coaches are just forcing it. They're running before they can walk and they're just like, right, if I'm charging 200 quid a month as a online coach, my business Coach is charging 500 straight away. Do the math, I can charge double, I make more money even though they don't have a clue about business, whereas for me it just happened accidentally.

I think that's one of the key mistakes is going from a PT to a business owner is a transformation in itself. Right. Because you have to have a completely different mindset and there's a complete transition process in there. What would you say? There's some people that get qualified and maybe want to be an online coach straight away. Do you think that they are ready to be an online coach? Is it just as easy to get results online than on the gym floor? Like what, what are your thoughts on that? Do you think people should do a bit of time on the gym floor before they actually go out and do online? Like what, what, what are your thoughts there?

If you'd asked me this five years ago, I would have said you should get your earn your stripes on the gym floor. Now my thoughts have really changed. I just think if you're getting into the industry, if you know that you want to be an online coach and you like the freedom, the travel, that side of it that it offers and if you just naturally just somebody prefers the idea of working from a laptop versus being around people all day, I just don't see the point in wasting time on the gym floor because it is a completely different skill set. So I just wouldn't waste time and then sidestep, I would just go straight in. And we've got people that have come to us that have never been coaches before. They've been in the corporate world, they enjoy training themselves, they know their way around a gym, they're qualified, they go straight into online coaching. And I mean, some of their results are like better than the PTs that have been in the industry for like eight years going online because they're a blank canvas and we can teach them how to get results.

Can you tell us one or two of your students, like, results, case studies, like the before and after, what they're currently sort of doing for business right now?

Yeah, so two, if we're talking like from outside of the industry. So what I've just covered there. The two that stand out, we've got. We had a lady called Samantha Jordan, was working corporate job, lives around here actually, a couple of kids. She came to us, she was a client of Sam's, she was a physique client, got bitten by the fitness bug, said Sam, I love this online thing that you're doing, like I really want to do what you're doing, how do I do it? Sam's like, speak to Adam, she come work, you know, go through the OT. She started with us with 70 Instagram followers and the last time I spoke to her she was doing like six and a half to seven and a half K months. And then we've also recently had a lady called Amy Morris. She didn't even have an Instagram account. So she started from complete scratch, had to set up an Instagram account and get cranking. Within four months she'd done her first four and a half thousand pound month and now she's one year with us and she's just done eleven and a half thousand pound month as like again a mum of two kids.

I want to say, can you tell us a case study of a PT that was on the gym floor, transitioned over.

Sam's an easy one. So Sam, who we've referenced at the beginning, so Sam's been a pt, similar length of time, I believe to myself, long time in the industry, worked for a studio around here. I believe he got given like a bit of an ultimatum as to like, you do the online thing or you work for us. Then he went and started doing some private clients. What was the gym called before? It's called Phoenix Platinum.

Was it in Burgess Hill? Yeah, yeah.

And then obviously it got petrol bumped and burnt down, so his whole client base went. He had some online clients, messaged me.

Nice gym, nice area.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. He turned up to train some clients. So he was doing like, he had a few online clients and then some PT clients and then yeah, turn up to go train his clients, the gym was on fire, burnt. So yeah, he messaged me and we took him from like, I think at that point he was doing 2 to 3k online, obviously PT background. And then I know that he's gone up to like nineteen and a half thousand pound months is kind of peak. So that'd be a good case study of somebody already doing it.

So I'm sure there's a lot of coaches that try and go online without getting any help at all. They just see what other people are doing, they go, I can do that what would you say are the biggest mistakes you see when people are attempting to go online but don't get any help, don't actually know the entire game plan?

I think it's just the same as like their clients just trying to Google like a fat loss program. Will they get there eventually? Probably. Will they probably make some mistakes on the way. Would it take longer? I think it's just the same with that is, you know, they just waste time. They just, they just see somebody else's account that seems to be doing well and then they'll just try and copy what they're doing, but they just don't understand the principles. So they're not going to do themselves any harm, but it's just, just going to take them like so much longer than if they were to just work with somebody that's obviously a few steps ahead of them and can just build it out for them and just go, hey, do this, this, this, this is why. And then they can adjust it for their, their own account.

It's quite common. We see people who sell coaching but then they don't go and get a coach for them in a different area of either their life or business. But they're so adamant about coaching fitness, but they won't then invest and they're always struggling.

Yeah, and it's, it's the same mentality as, as the, as their worst client of, you know, oh, I can do it myself, I can save money and I can get the same result when actually that's what, that's the reason this.

Exact conversation with somebody in the DMs the other day where they were like, hey, I'm just going to go try and get my first five to ten clients by myself. And I was like, cool, good luck. But it's the same as your client saying to you how I'm going to go drop my first 14 pounds. It's like they're going to drop that first 14 pounds way faster with you. And then I just said to him, I'm not into pressure. Sales is really not my style. Just think on this, you know, with you being so. See, he'd like been talking to me in the DMs for about a year and just like, I'll come, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it. And I said to him, it's taken you a year and you still don't see the value in just having somebody do it for you. That's why you're struggling in your own business. This isn't me trying to pitch to you now, it's just like, you should go ruminate on this. Like, why are you avoiding getting coaching? How can you expect, you know, gen pop, body based, body composition based clients to sign up with you if you just subconsciously you're not, you don't value coaching.

It's like, what's the quickest way to learn French? Watch free YouTube videos with adverts in the middle or buy, you know, a CD. CD's not around, but you know what I mean? Plug it into your car. Or literally get a French tutor that you see every week or go to France and live there and have no friends that speak English and hire a tutor. You're going to get there pretty quick.

You just get there so much faster. So just, just cut out that process. In my opinion, that's just how I'm wired. I guess it's how you guys are wired as well as I'm here, want to get to here. Who's done it before me, how much it costs me to just, you know, invest into them. They'll shorten the gap and life's good.

So I'm interested in going online and I get hit with multiple ads every single day by lots of different people offering services to help me do that. What are some of the red flags that people should look out for to avoid certain types? Because as we know, there's some really, really good people in the marketing, in the mentoring, in the consulting space, and then there's a lot of other people that are just doing it for a.

Quick buck and they're probably in the majority, unfortunately. There's like a few select really good people in the space.

We're friends with them, we know them.

And yeah, and there's a lot of people that are just dog shit. So, like, yeah, what are the red flags to look out for?

Yeah, so things that I would look out for, number one, I try and find out what was their track record before becoming a business coach, where did they legitimately get their business to? Did they get to the point of being at capacity and hiring coaches and so on? Because if they couldn't get to capacity themselves, like, you know, for me it'd be a red flag. So that'd be number one. Number two would be look at their wins versus how controversial or funny they are on social media. So if you go on my Instagram page, I have the personality of a teaspoon. Right. I'm not particularly controversial, I'm not funny. I don't f and blind. But you'll Just see so many results. I just don't know anybody has got the same track record that we do. We've taken people from zero to, to get off the gym floor. So don't be lulled in by them just being funny or they're having the most like creative rules out there. Like look at their results, be number two. Number three would be I would try and find out some people that have worked with them and I'd message them and ask them are they the real deal? And I wouldn't let them cherry pick them. So I tell my sales guys, somebody on a call with us and they're unsure, we don't say to them, hey, go message Amy Morris or Sam Jordan that I just mentioned. Just scroll through our account. At some point you're going to figure out who's working with us. Go message them. Is the OT the real deal what your results been like? And then the last one is, this is a tough one because there's a longer time horizon that you have to pay attention to this. But we were discussing this. If you see a fitness business mentor changing the name of their program and the promise of their program and the deliverables of their program multiple times per year, it's probably not doing that well.

Meaning results for their students or clients.

That work, the results for their students, but probably their own revenue. Like if something's working, you don't change it. How long have you guys been fma?

From day one.

Right? The OT has been the OT since day one never changed because it fucking works like there is. My students are getting results just like yours are. And then, you know, business is growing. I've got no reason to keep trying to paint and, you know, recolor it and rebrand it. And whereas I see these other mentors, one minute their business name is this, six months later it's this one. Their promise is 10k, then it's copy an hour like 3-5k. And it's just like, just look at that and go, why do you need to keep changing it if you're good at what you do?

I was thinking something quite funny is that all of these mentors have all gone to the same mentor to learn how to do their business. And they all look very same.

Branding's the same.

Branding is not even changing.

The same thing. The same italic folded font and it's.

Just a different color, but it's the same style, it's the same every. So I just, I go on their page with the TM and I, I can tell straight away that who they've gone through. And you just know that it's going to be the same stuff everywhere you go.

Yeah, it's the same like, you know, bold italic font, some little hashtags underneath in a little handwritten font, a little trademark in the corner. It's just like, just be original.

Another thing that we see is suddenly someone pops up out of nowhere and they're trying to teach fit pros or even gym owners, like marketing, sales business, but they've not got a track record. And it's like, well, where did you get your information from that you're now teaching? When you dig a little bit deeper, it's like, oh, you were a testimonial on so and so's program, agency, consultancy, mentorship, and that was filmed like 12 months ago. So is the intellectual property that you are teaching unique and specialized to you or have you just literally ripped it off, changed the color of the logo and your.

Yeah, well, they go into a program, they rip the. They use the content. Rip the content, sell it as their own, basically. I'm sure you've seen stuff.

Yeah, so I've got one of my own students who's pissed off, I'll be honest, I got a message 2 days ago who's pissed off because he's like, hey, this guy here is basically giving away all of your documents, you know, like, and he sent me screenshots of it where this guy's coming to my program, obviously taking all of our stuff. Now he's a business coach and now he's just. Yeah, taking my logo off it, put his own logo on it, changed the colors on it, and now he's giving this away and using it as like lead magnets and so on. We had it with. Is that Linus? I don't know if you're happy if I just name brands. Linus. I've had 2 of their account managers, both give people like Linus scripts and stuff. And then it's got back to me and they're my scripts and my documents and stuff that leaners have. Literally copy paste word. And it's what you do though. Yeah, yeah.

But I just wanted a warning to the fitness industry. Like, do your due diligence on who you're going to hand over paid money to. Like, you've listed a number of red flags. This is a big red flag that.

We see is they come in and they just swipe stuff from you, pass it off as their own.

It's more. It's more a warning for the consumer of that person though, because you are paying for someone to give you stuff that they didn't actually make. So how legit is that guy if they're just taking stuff from everywhere else and passing it off as their own, Are they really an expert or are they just a bit of a fraud?

Yep, 100% see it all the time.

And what I also see is people learn high ticket sales and then suddenly they've got this whole business program or consultancy or agency or mentorship that they're selling. But when you pull back the curtain of actually what you get, you get one component of running a business which is high ticket sales. And as you know, there's much more to running a business than just like closing people, overcoming objections and hardcore sales like fulfillment product, customer service, building a team, team finance. There's so much more than just I can close people into online training at.

X price or again it's like, you know, for the stage that you guys are at myself where we've got you know, a team of like 20 plus people each different areas, sales team, marketing team, fulfillment team and so on. There's just so many parts of business that we've been there and made the mistakes and done it and we can teach that back. Whereas when you've got that one person that's just been on a course himself in their parents bedroom, do you know what I mean? Like it's just going to be quite one dimensional.

I think it's a good thing for everyone watching, listening as well. Like you do live events, we do live events. You look on video, there's like nearly 200 plus people there in the room.

Like that are our customers that we haven't had to, we haven't had to go to the program and like sell or give away other people into it or give, give tickets like to my event. They're all client. Your client event that I spoke at the other day. It's a client only event. My one in a week's time client only event, kind of.

I was thinking there's probably quite a lot of people out there that wouldn't want to have, wouldn't want to be in a room with some of the people they've sold their product to or they wouldn't want to show their face in front of them. Right.

They're scared of the backlash. It's a good point.

Yeah. Should we move on from talking about these people in the industry? Because I think we get fired up.

The cameras working. Just do your research.

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Just don't get Pulled in by a couple of funny reels or one success. Success? Yeah, like, you know, just, just dig back a little bit, speak to people and usually you get to the. You will save yourself a lot of money, basically.

So I want to talk about the differences between those that are successful when they go for online coaching and those that aren't. So what would you say are the main. Let's start with like behavior traits or personality traits of those that are successful and those that aren't. So what would you say? Like, because I'm sure you've seen people super successful and some people where the mindset's off and they just don't have the success. So what would you say? Those two, those two types of people are really easy.

I'd say the people that don't get results, there's just two things they miss. Number one, they're just not a great coach. They just don't have good results. And you can paper over the cracks with fancy marketing, but ultimately if you don't have a good product, you're not getting people results. You're fighting with one hand tied behind your back because you don't have social proof, you don't have referrals, you don't, you don't have long term retention. So that'd be number one. Number two is like the, the word that everybody is about to collectively roll their eyes out, which is consistency, which is probably just the. It really is like, and I hate sounding so cliche, so boring like I saw that come in, but it really is, is that the, our students that don't do well, nine times out of ten, it's their personality traits are just mirroring what they moan about with their clients. Oh, my client didn't check in with me this week. My client didn't do this. My client didn't train. They didn't hit their workout sessions where you go back through that thing. They're like, leads are slow. I go back, have you done this? No. Have you done this? No. Have you done this? No, I'm working on it. Like fucking stop working on it. Just do it. Those are the two things easily just, they're not a great coach and they're not interested in becoming a good coach and they just lack just discipline and just putting in the reps. Well, probably.

Because we see it as well, like they've lost their passion for what they do and they shouldn't probably be a business owner or in the industry or something.

I would say, which may upset a few, is that they've been in business for a long time. They've never done anything too significant or grown it to a good level. But they're stuck in these beliefs of how things should be or how certain people should be trained or they have. They sit on this kind of moral high ground of how things should be. They're not willing to change and they just stay there forever basically. And it's because they just don't listen or they're not willing to be open to change. That's the reason that's holding them back from growth ultimately.

Yep. And they'll just bitch and moan about everybody else surpassing them and the, the younger coaches that don't have experience or whatever and they frog leap them and they're just stuck in their ways, resistant to change, not open minded. Yep.

So I want to become an online trainer. Do I fulfill with live Zoom sessions? Do I go invest thousands upon thousands in my own custom app? Do I white label an app? Do I send emails like you did back in the day? Do I get a Google sheet? I do. Tracking calories. What do I actually give and what's the fulfillment of what I'm selling?

Super good question. So number one, no, you don't need to be on Zoom. We're trying to step away from that like time for money thing to a degree. So really there's like three pieces of software that, that we would recommend. Number one is a simple like form survey type thing. Whether that's type, form, jot form, whatever, that's for your clients to check in with you. Number two is some form of a training app. My PT hub that you guys are affiliated with, Trainerize that we use. You've got true coach, you've got PT distinction, whichever app suits your business and that you look like, you know, enjoy the UI of and then just something to deliver feedback which could be as simple as WhatsApp. We typically recommend Loom so it's a bit more personal. It's like that perfect hybrid between it being remote and on your time and asynchronous but the person still being able to see you and it feeling quite personal. And you'll just shoot them a quick loom video which will be like, hey, great job for checking in this week. Down another pound and a half. You've done X, Y, Z. But you've mentioned you've got a niggle in your shoulder. Let's stop this exercise. This exercise. Check in with me again in three days time. Let's see how it's going. Done.

So does the coach tell the consumer go and buy These weights, these kettlebells, these resistance bands. Go buy this food. Like, how does that element work?

Yeah, a good coach will. Yep. So if the client doesn't train at a gym that, you know, should have most of the equipment they need, if they want to train from home, then a good coach, as part of the onboarding process, should just link them to everything on Amazon. Hey, here's these glute bands. Go buy this. Here's the link. Here's this. Three kilo pink dumbbells. Go buy this. And in terms of food, yes, we teach a few different ways to deliver nutrition. So there's, you know, classic, like, portion sizes, the precision nutrition type stuff. There's set meal plans as the hybrid track that I spoke about. There's, you know, the flexible style dieting we're tracking. And we'll try and help our coaches figure out which style of dieting will suit each client so it's not just, again, one dimensional. And then they'll support their clients through that if they need shopping lists and food swaps, especially like vegan, vegetarian clients and stuff, you know, limited on food choices. So we'll try and help them with that.

The other methods that I mentioned, let's break those down and why they're a bad idea. So we saw this in Covid. Everyone was delivering sessions on Zoom. Why is that a bad idea?

You're just stuck back in the same. It's basically PT still, except it's arguably more boring because it's behind a screen in your living room or whatever. But it's still me and you on a Zoom call. It was great during COVID I think.

For the context of COVID it was good because if you were a gym or in person, that's kind of what you do, right? You're doing sessions and that works. And they have time to kill and they probably want to be doing that. But I think some people stayed there.

Yes.

I even know people now that still do Zoom sessions, but it's not as popular. They've just got a few people that still enjoy it and they're kind of straggling along with it. But just. I think it had some content.

Definitely did. Yep. Yep. Gym got closed yesterday. My business is shut overnight. Straight onto Zoom. Great. But as you say, times have moved on a little bit. People have got Zoom fatigue. So, yeah, that's. That's the first one.

James Smith has an app. Body coach Joe Wicks has an app. Kayla in Australia has an app. I think I should get an app.

And charge eight pound a month.

Yeah, good luck with that.

We've had people come on calls like, I've got this app, eight pound a month. So how many people you got? No one. So can you help me get it to a thousand? It's like, if I could do that that quickly, I would do it. Like. Yeah, yeah, it's.

So the two issues I see with this, number one is of course they have big budgets so they can go and have a custom app developed with the development team and so on. You probably don't have that. I tried it, you know, it didn't work. So it's just much easier to white label an app that already works. But, but in terms of the actual subscription model of this like £8amonth thing, it just relies on such high volume that if, if you're watching this and you, you probably don't have that, that audience, James Smith and Kayla, whatever her name is, and that have. So the problem is with these programs is number one, you need so many people in it, eight quid a month to hit a decent income. And number two, I don't run this style business, but I would imagine that the churn rate of them is probably quite high. I know the traditional thinking is like, it's only eight quid, so people forget it, you know, they'll just be on it long term. But I actually, I think that the sort of people that buy these apps do penny pinch. So they do notice that eight quid go out. They do moan when their next subscription goes up by three quid or whatever it is. So you just end up having to continually fill this bucket.

So I had a business previously that was in the personal development space. It wasn't selling fitness weight loss transformations, but it was selling a transformation of mindset. And we went down the subscription route of £20amonth and we had exactly that. We had high customer service tickets, people just complaining, people wanting to cancel. People can cancel it themselves, like so much like commotion every single day in customer service. And then the second thing was we would run marketing and we couldn't make it affordable because we'd spend more than £20 a day to acquire one client who was paying us £20. And after like three years, I was just like, look, this can't continue. Like we've, we've got it to a level. We got to over 10,000amonth in subscriptions, but it was just super slow, super super tough. And looking back, all it would have taken is just a price increase on the front end, a few different value ads throughout the program, and it would have taken off. So I'm sure you see it as well. So I think this is a good segment to. Let's talk about pricing. So in the online fitness space, do I go high ticket upwards? Thousand five hundred, two thousand. I've seen some people even doing like 5K, like transformation programs. Do I go low eight pounds? Joe Wicks, James Smith style. Is there something in the middle? What's what, what is working right now?

Yeah, so I guess each can work depending on the business type. Like you've, you've got James Smith that's got however many followers he's got. Stick a bunch of people into eight quid, you've got. You know, I mentioned earlier about the pts that try and become like the best in the market, dominate and charge really high prices. That could work. We just charge monthly recurring revenue. I wouldn't say we're low ticket or high ticket. You know, we're just somewhere in the middle kind of boring. We tend to Recommend Charging between 150 and 250 per month. We have some students that charge 300, 400, 500. But for the most part, most of our guys charge 150, 199, 225, 250 per month. Simple recurring direct debit. That way you're not, you know, starting the business today. This is another thing I see from other business coaches sometimes is they'll put people onto charging high ticket. Somebody will join their program, implement a few quick tactics. Month one, they will inevitably sign up three, four, five clients. They'll have their PB month. Coincidentally, in their first month, the business coach gets a great screenshot. They don't know how to deliver coaching, they don't know how to keep people in the business. And then at month four, once their 90 day program's finished, suddenly they're actually worse off than when they joined the program. They've burnt through these tactics and like skim the cream off the top with their followers that are easy, you know, easy money and then they're struggling. It's just like I just see it time and time again. But the business coach has got a great screenshot. Whereas we're kind of, you know, bit boring, slow and steady, but it just compounds over time with these, the client direct debit. So you might work with us and you may in your first month do five, six, seven hundred, maybe a thousand pounds. So you might then do thirteen, fourteen hundred, then two grand, two and a half, three. But the goal is that every month it's just compounding and going up and up and up. And you don't have to worry about not, not filling the people that keep dropping off.

So your goal isn't necessarily the vanity metrics of, oh, I had this massive month. It's, I'm consistently making this a month.

We have people fill in their revenue on the last day of each month. And what I want to see whenever I look at that is just this graph just consistently going up. Of course you're going to have the odd little wobble around summer and stuff, but really, I'm not looking for some crazy peak from month one. You know, the people I'm hopefully attracting, I want them running these businesses for 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10 years. So it's like slow, steady, methodical.

One month I'm an online trainer, then I'm next month I'm bitcoin expert, then I'm doing property, then I'm doing FX trading.

I'm a business coach.

Yeah, then I'm a business coach.

Exactly. It's like, you know, if you're passionate about helping people, health and fitness, like, is your jam. You're good at it, you get people results. You want the freedom that an online business gives. You do want that inevitable big jump in income, but you're happy to put in the reps and just do it consistent.

Another thing that we see with the people that we've had conversations with who do high ticket and they come to us and they are struggling because they might go 8, 10, 12, 15, 20k a month in month one and then like nothing month two and three and then they're like scrambling, oh, I need to quickly do paid ads. Let's go to fma. Can you help us? And the answer is like, no. Like the, the. Your stability of your business is all over the place. It's up and down.

If the majority of your money is coming in the front end, you've got a product problem most of the time.

Yeah. I think that one of the biggest issues with that is it just screws, you know, you start making those impulsive decisions because you panic. Whereas if you run it on like the recurring monthly thing, it compounds and you have a month that drops by 300 quid, it drops by 400, 500 quid, it's like, okay, cool, three more clients, I'm back up. Whereas if it's like you sign up a few people in month one, then nobody month two, you know, and then.

You get like tighter and more tense on the sales calls and you become sales brand on your Facebook Live or your Instagram stream or in your production of information out to the marketplace, you.

Just look desperate, you're just panicking. So you are, you come across desperate to your audience and then, yeah, you make those impulsive decisions of like, go jump on this mentor, go do this, go to this. And then all of those small rash decisions end up probably costing you each time you burn through a new mentor or something. Whereas if you just found that one correct way of doing things from day one, just suck it out, you know.

Or we see that they have this record breaking month, more money they've ever earned and then they go and spend all that money on vanity things that look awesome on, on the gram.

Yeah, they don't do the math. They don't go, right, I've, you know, I've signed six people up this month for a 90 day package. I need to be dividing what I've earned by, you know, break it down per month. Instead they're like, right, I've had this nice.

And then 12k paper because the products.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, screwed, right? Yeah.

Cool. So we, we've talked product, we've talked pricing. Let's touch on sales and marketing. So how would you advise people who are selling online? What's the best way to acquire leads and then sell to those leads?

Yeah, so we're basically obviously the polar opposite to you guys. So your bricks and mortar and then paid marketing, we're online and predominantly like Instagram organic. So that's the method that we teach. We don't try and teach you TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, this, this, this. We're like, we have nailed the Instagram strategy. So that's kind of like our client acquisition module.

And there could be potentially other strategy for people that get to a certain level. Right.

But I think then in our high level group we do start running, you know, IG shout out. Yeah, we talk through some basic ad stuff. It's like bread and butter.

It's like get that first plate spinning successfully is getting you leads and customers before you try four other strategies. It's do that one thing, do that really well, do that to a point where it's potentially maxed out, if that's even possible. And then start to expand on how you're doing a weight loss client.

Right. Give them 10 things, they're going to.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, like, yeah, we, we have students that start working with us, obviously a little bit slow at the beginning while they're trying to build some authority. And then they're like, oh, my friends doing TikTok or my friends doing this, should I do that or email marketing? I'm like, no, no. Like you're gonna, you're just trying to jump that in to fix this. But you haven't. Just nail this, get it cranking, systemize it so that it's bringing leads in and all the, the basics are being done regardless of how you feel. Every day we turn into a system and then over time. Let's add an email marketing. Let's add in this. Let's add in this. Let's add in this. I was talking to a lady at your event and she did, she did like the online talk and was talking to me like, oh, I'm just getting into this, trying to build this business and then do you think I should start the online now? I said, how are you doing this? She's like, I'm in my first month. I'm like, no, no, no. Everything FMA is doing, just stick with that. It's too complicated trying to learn two systems. Get that systemized. Once everything is cranking there, then come back to the online six months, a year down the line. Same with what I would do if I had one of my students then going, now I want to run paid traffic. Like, no, no, you haven't got the organic strategy cranking yet. Do this first, then add in this as fuel later on.

Yeah, just do the one thing, do it really well, like find the strategy that is proven to work and follow that. And I also think, I would say whatever that strategy is, is like be patient and consistent like you said earlier, because so many people, and I imagine for you guys, they like put two posts up. They're like nothing happened.

Exactly, exactly. They're like brand new online coach. You know, we try and of course get them some quick wins straight away. So we have a couple of posts that we try and get them to do. We hope that it lands them two, three, four clients straight away. Sometimes it doesn't and they're like, oh, this didn't work, therefore I can't do this. It's like, no, you just, you've got no trust in the marketplace.

I wanted to ask you, you mentioned this a couple times about before and after transformation. So number one, is it a fundamental part of the marketing strategy? And number two, we started to see there's a slight shift where there's much more to fitness than a before and after. But also from a marketing point of view, we understand the value of being able to show that proof of concept. So would you recommend that everyone does have a before and after and for those that aren't. Do they need to kind of get on board or do they need to highlight a before and after in another way? For instance, so let's say like someone who didn't necessarily want to lose weight but they wanted to have more energy, get stronger and be able to spend more time. Yeah. Mental health, like is there a way of showing that? But I guess what I'm trying to say is like there should be a before and after. Is that what you think within the marketing strategy?

Yeah. So I'm gonna. My. When I was pting and when I was online coaching it was all body composition based. It was the sort of dramatic before and afters. So I'm of course always going to be biased towards teaching that because it's, it's what helped me build my business and it's, you know, what's worked for the majority of my OTE students. Within our OT students that sign up, I'd say we have like 80, 20 and within the 20 we have like 10 and 10. So 80% of our students work with body composition clients and they want to use before and afters and we help, you know, improvement with that. Because I think for the, for the body composition space, I still think it is the gold standard for social which.

Is easy to see the result similar to this.

I'd love to look like that. Whether this is right or wrong in comparison. It's just why I'd like works then within the 20% that we don't use before and afters with there's 10% of people that are in the body composition space but they don't agree with before and afters. I don't want to make people feel shitty. I don't want to lead to this. This cool. We just don't use them. We figure out other ways. I'll come to that in a second. And then occasionally we'll agree to work with people which will be the other 10 that are more like strength based athletes and stuff. For the most part we try and turn down we like anybody that's come to us before out like Pilates, yoga, all of these sorts of things. We're just like, we don't know what we're doing. But with strength coaching we're like, we can probably help you out. The principles carry over but we just have to think outside the box. So for those that can't use body composition based before and afters, we'll use video testimonials. We'll, we'll use charts and graphs like either weight loss graphs or strength Gain graphs and charts. We'll use like cool messages that people have sent. We'll try and get people at like, events and get selfies with them. Like, there's. We just try and get a bit more creative with it. So there is ways.

Yeah, maybe like something like holding the board and it says, like, what their problem was. Then the next one is. I feel so much. Yeah, yeah. Something like. So it's still showing that transformation because I truly believe that's why people sign up. Whether it's a gym online, they want to make a change in their life. And it might not be weight loss, it could be mental health, it could be energy, it could be fitness. But people want to see that you can take them from there to there. And fundamentally, fundamentally, if you can show that off, then you're going to get more people that come to you.

Yeah, 100%.

I would love to gyms who are at capacity and they have a team, so they're not operational coaching the sessions to have an option if clients leave because there's always a churn and it could be they're moving away or they want to, you know, injured or whatever it may be. Maybe they're telling the gym owner they can't afford it anymore, but maybe that's not the truth. To have an option to say, look, you can't work with us in person for various reasons, but here is the online version of what we are doing as a community. How would you, what would you do if you owned a gym? How would you create that online product? What would it look like?

Yeah, basically it would be what we teach. You just probably wouldn't need the Instagram marketing strategy because you've already done the heavy lifting and the marketing to get the, the member or the client there, but the delivery would be the same. So you'd pick a coaching app that it works, you'd figure out how, how you enjoy that process, what's time efficient for you and your business, what gets a client result probably going to be similar to what I explained earlier. And then I would just delegate that to your team and then, yeah, you just have that conversation. So somebody comes to the end of their. Either they don't close, so you've done the marketing to get them as a gym member or client, they don't close. If the reason for them not closing the objection could be overcome with like an online thing, push them into that.

It could be too far away to get there every single day and they.

Start looking into it and they're like, oh, actually, do you Know what? Yeah, traffic.

Could a hybrid thing work, do you think?

Yeah, I think it could work. Yep. That can work. Yep. So have an online element and then you can even do it as like an on ramp period where they could do like one to one sessions intensively for the first six 12 weeks and then downgrade them into online or online only or something like that.

Or there's some people, and I was speaking to someone just the other day who that they've been with them for four years and they've become a sophisticated consumer. Like they know all the brands are going to the fitness competitions and that gym just isn't for them anymore. And it's not a bad thing while they leave them. But could online coaching actually assist them to go and do what they are now looking to do?

They already have the relationship with the gym owner.

Yeah. So hey, we can actually help you with those goals, but just not in these four walls. So that's also another reason as well.

Yeah. So it's one of the first things that we'll do with like established PTs that have got a client base is like out of your current clients, can we start converting some of them to buy you back some time? So we just explained to have the conversation of like, dude, you've outgrown, you know, pt, you don't need me stood here counting your reps and going like, no, chest up, shoulders back. You're not going to slip a disc anymore. Like, you know, I can now hold you accountable to a higher level. We can get more advanced with things. You can do it on your own time. You don't have to make our diaries match. Possibly more cost efficient. Yeah.

We've come across gym owners where they say they're a gym owner but they're coaching clients for four to six hours on the gym floor. Then they're massaging a client, then they're cleaning the toilets and then they at weekends are delivering certifications to consumers that want to become personal trainers and then they dip their toe in with online and what ends up happening is nothing is really successful and they're just busy doing busy things. And for anyone watching or listening this, that is not what we are advising. You know, if you own a gym, let's get that gym to the max, let's get the systems in place, let's get you off the gym floor and then, you know, look at the possibilities of, of how online could work for you.

Yeah. So I had a client the other day who he's, he's got group training, he's at Half capacity. He's like, yeah, I've got an app I'm going to do online. It's like, dude, like you're going to put half the energy into two things that aren't currently full. Put all your energy into one thing, get that to max capacity, nearly where it is. And then as a scaling tool you can use online a little bit. Like if it was the other way around, right? You want someone, it just all goes back to put your time and energy into that one thing and make that thing really good. Once that thing is as good as it can be, systematize, then scale. You don't need to be doing five things at once because ultimately you're not going to make any progress in either direction.

100%. If somebody's currently an FMA client running paid traffic, building out the facility, build that, get it to the point where you both kick back and you're like, yes, this is where we want it to go. Once that's done, then you go, okay, cool. Can I add an online element? If somebody is going through the ote, I want to run paid traffic or I want to do this or whatever, like build out your organic Instagram system, hit capacity as an online coach or have lead generation dialed in and stuff, hit your numbers and then go, okay, what options do I have to run paid traffic?

And because essentially what you're looking to do is become like a serial entrepreneur and have different businesses. But the reason to have different businesses is to have different assets that are worth something, can produce an income. But you, you need to be able to not be in the asset before you work on the second thing. You need to work on that, have it to a good level, producing results, income and then you can move your time away. But only then really is when we think you should jump into that next opportunity.

I think like the perfect thing for your guys customers is you know, have FMA run all of your marketing and all of that and then you just obviously probably close the deals. Then you have your trainers run all the PT sessions. I guess just call me out if I'm wrong. And then once you've done that and that's all systemized and everything, it's all just working. FMA's doing the marketing, you're perhaps doing the sales. Or maybe you can even get somebody to take your sales, fulfillment's being done by your team. Then you learn the online system and then you now have those trainers in their spare time in the middle of the day now deliver that. You just systemize it and do you.

Think they should do it as a personal brand? Do you think that's a better way to do it or should I do it under a business name? Yeah, because like some people might have the name of a gym and they'll go, I'll call it this, but with online underneath rather than the gym. But do you think it's more like a person in person to person connection is more impactful than just a brand name? Like, what are your thoughts on that?

Good question. So if somebody's starting out online, I do think like personal branding does work best. So somebody's got no fitness business or they're just trying to build, you know, social media assets and stuff, it's probably going to grow faster just being you. But if somebody's got a gym and they've got that brand behind it and they've got a social media account that I heard at your guys talk the other day, you're trying to get everybody to level up and improve their organic content to complement of course, all the ads. So now they've got that as an asset. There's probably power in the brand at that point. And it's, it's not like they're starting from scratch, having to build authority. They've got this gym that they should only be now doing this online thing because they've got the gym systemized. They should be having client results. And so yeah, if somebody's starting out, I think personal brand, somebody's already got a gym and they're now adding an online. I think there's power to the brand that they've built.

Okay, nice. Awesome.

This has been really insightful for me and I hope everyone watching or listening this. Where can people find out more information about you?

Yeah, so Instagram is like where I'm most active. Just Adam Haley one. That's where you'll get any advice. You'll see that sort of stuff. If you have made it this far and you want any resource, DM script, x client script, any of this, then just drop me a dm. Just reference the podcast and I'll get that over to you. That's the easiest place.

Awesome. Thank you for coming on the podcast.

Thank you. It's been great.

Cheers, Alan.

No worries.

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