4 Steps to Unlock Your Creativity & Feel More Inspired Every Day

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Let me ask you something. When was the last time you felt creative? Not productive, not busy. Creative. I mean, in the moment, alive, lost in the flow of something. Well, if you haven't felt like that in a while, you're not alone. You and I live in a world that just moves way too fast. We're always scrolling and comparing and reacting. There's always something more important than making space for your own ideas, for your own feelings. No wonder you feel so disconnected. But you wanna know something? That creative part of you, it's not gone. It's been in there since you were born. It's connected to your intuition. See, it's just buried underneath the noise. Today we're going to help you access it. See, creativity is not about what you're making, it's how you move through the world. It's not just your art, it's in your instincts, your intuition. You were born as a creative person. Let me say this out loud: creativity is not just for artists or musicians. I'm serious. You are so much more creative than you think. If you're building a business or raising a family or writing a caption on social media, you're trying to solve a problem right now, You're already creating. You just haven't been told that you're a creative person. Well, after this episode, you're going to stop waiting for permission to be creative, and you're going to finally understand creativity is part of who you are. You're going to be learning 4 powerful principles that will help you access your natural-born creativity, because creativity is not about being perfect. It's not about performing. It's not about producing anything. Creativity is a way to tap into something deeper and more meaningful in your daily life. And today we are going to unleash it. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes, subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. The Mel Robbins Podcast is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance, our exclusive insurance partner. You know how good it feels when someone makes your life easier? Oh, I just love those kind of people. That's why I love Amica. They go the extra mile in the moments you need it most, listening, following up, and treating you like a real human being. And because they're a mutual insurer, the whole model is built around putting customers first. It's refreshing, it's rare, it's coverage with empathy, and it's exactly how insurance should feel. Amica, where you're priority number one. Visit amica.com and get a quote today. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. It is such an honor to be together and spend this time with you. And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you, I just wanted to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm so excited that you're here because today we're going to talk about how you can tap into your natural-born creativity to live a more purpose-driven life. You're gonna learn 4 principles that will help you be more creative in your life, no matter what you do for work, whether you're a nurse, a teacher, a parent, a barista, a founder, a student, or just someone who's tired of feeling stuck. The principles you're gonna learn today are gonna help you stop holding yourself back and start living your life in a way that matters. And to help me do that, I'm joined by one of the most grounded and fun inspiring and creatively awake people I know, Phil Cook. Phil is a musician and a songwriter. He's played with Grammy Award-winning artists like Bon Iver. He's produced award-winning gospel records, and he's released his own deeply personal albums. And you're going to hear some of his music throughout this episode. He's also toured with artists for more than 20 years, and just this past year, he completed his first ever solo US tour. But that's not why I asked Phil here. See, what makes Phil so special is how he sees the world. And Phil is like you and me. He's lived through a lot of stuff— divorce, burnout, reinvention, self-doubt. He's a single dad of 2 kids, and yet he still wakes up every day and intentionally taps into creativity to help him stay connected to his intuition, to help him make decisions, and to help him live a more purpose-driven life. And today he's going to help you do the same thing. Phil is a walking reminder that creativity is human. Art and authenticity, they're not separate. And joy, it's not something you chase. It's something you remember. So if you're tired, uninspired, or if you've been wondering, is this really all there is? If some part of you knows there's more to life, there's more to you, there's more than what you're currently experiencing. Well, this conversation today is for you. It's for your heart. It's for your spirit. It's for your creativity. Because here's what I know. By the time you're done listening, there's going to be something. There's going to be something that you experience, something that stirs inside you, that awakens, that brings you back to life. That's how powerful your creative spirit is. And today, Phil and I are going to help you tap back into it. Phil Cooke, I am so excited to welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

Thanks, Mel.

I already feel more creative and alive.

Hey, I feel very seen. Thank you.

You do?

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, Phil, I want— I really wanted to talk to you about creativity because you are living it. You have a very creative life. Something about you and the way that you move through life awakened something in me, and I wanted to introduce you to the person who is here with us right now. They may be watching on YouTube. You might be taking a walk or you're driving a car, and Phil and I are now sitting with you. And Phil, I'd love to have you tell the person who's with us right now, what could they experience in their life that might be different about how life feels if they really take to heart everything that you're about to share with us today about creativity, about the lessons that you've learned by living a creative life, what could be different?

Life is hard and painful and beautiful. We are all living in these human bodies, born into this world. Who knows how much time we have? So much is happening around us every single day. So much distraction, so much noise. Life gets, uh, fast. It's like fast forwarding, right? And sometimes I feel like it's like our senses are this one big inhale of all this information year after year. And creativity allows us to exhale. What works hand in hand with Intuition. Intuition is tied to our soul, our soul and our intuition and our creativity, all working together at the same time. The thing I want to talk about today really is your intuition is a voice that's inside of you that you can come to know this voice inside of you and come to help you make decisions in your life, like tuning a guitar string to exactly the right pitch of you. You know, and your intuition and your creativity feed each other. Your intuition will inform your creativity and your creativity hones your intuition. So you start to listen to your inner voice more. Most people, I think, want to know what that inner voice is when they feel lost. Guide me, help guide me. So when we tap into our intuition, what we're really tapping into is a chance to know ourselves in a deeper way.

I love what you said about the exhale.

Exhale.

That creativity is a way to exhale. And you are somebody who's made a living being creative, as a musician, as a producer, as a writer, as all the things that you do. But there's a very big difference between having a career that's creative and introducing creativity into your life. And you do both. It's not just a job. You've infused this creative spirit into the way that you live your day-to-day life. And I love what you said, that decision-making is just like tuning a guitar string because you're trying to hone in on what actually feels or sounds true for you. What do you say to the person who's listening who does not think they are creative at all? Like, this is not a conversation for me. I don't know how to write a song. I'm not good at drawing. I'm not creative. What do you say to that person?

Right. Well, let's go through the narratives. You watch somebody play a Beethoven piece and you're just like, well, that'll never be me. Or like, oh, I tried once in elementary school and, you know, somebody said an offhanded remark to you and like, oh, I guess that's not for me. Oh, I shouldn't I shouldn't sing. You know, people get these like microtraumas from childhood that they're like, this is my story. It's never for me. It's never for me ever again. We need to break those narratives because here's the fact. On your way to work this morning, a certain song came on and you cranked that song. Maybe on your lunch break you got a certain sandwich that just sent your taste buds afire and you knew it because it's your favorite sandwich in the whole world. Maybe your bathroom, you painted a certain color because you love that that color yellow. You have information coming into you from your senses, preferences, things that call to you that you actually do love. When— and there's moments that guide all of us towards what the language of us can be. You can speak the language of you. You just have to pay attention to what it is that you notice about life coming in. What do you notice? What are the patterns that you kind of constantly see? There's a key in there to what you have inside of you to exhale in creativity. I simply want for you to make it through your life with a companion. It really is a companion.

What is a companion?

Your intuition and your creativity become something that can be like a light in the dark for you. In the cathedral that we each contain within ourselves, we get to explore this. And this is the way to actually explore it and come to know what it is that makes up what has always been about you and what will always be about you and what there still is to discover. And all of us need a friend in times when it's like the loneliest times of life. And my, my hope for you, the listener, is that I can just encourage you to be worthy of taking on this deeper meaning in existence. In your life that could even heal the wounds that you have in the process.

Well, what I'm getting from listening to you is that it's literally like the aliveness of life that flows into you and that can flow out of you. And that brings me to these 4 principles of creativity that we're gonna talk about. And the first one that you have is shed the weight of expectations. Now, what does that mean to you, Phil?

Shedding the Weight is all about worthiness. People have access problems and stories about themselves that are incomplete and limiting. And my hunch is that most people don't realize how they're already being creative in their life, so many small ways. But to begin to see and hear and understand the language of you gives you these clues that you have something to say. You can exhale this life, this experience.

You said that there are small ways that you're already being creative and you don't even realize it. Can you give me examples of that?

Okay. So a good example would be for me, if you, you know, it's Friday night, it's pizza night, kids come home from school, you throw the pizza in the oven, you add certain things onto it because your oldest kid likes on half, the other younger kid likes on half. But you like the way that you, you kind of found a different way into it. So even just making a pizza that wasn't there before, you've learned how to make this thing, okay? And then you feed it to your kids. It was not there before. Now it's here. Your kids' hunger was not there before. It's here. And then it was satiated. You move on with your day. Maybe there's something that your grandma made for you when you were a kid, and that calls to you, and you decide you're going to make that for your kids. That is the quintessential version of creativity for me. Is to take an existence, something from your existence and your past and your present. You roll it all into a ball and then you just find a way to put it together in a way that makes sense for you. That can be as simple as that. As simple as making a pizza and making a BLT. Just the way that the lettuce is cut, the way these things happen, or the way that, um, maybe it's the way you tie a fishing line just like your grandpa taught you, but you found a way to do it a little bit better so it doesn't break quite as many times. And, and you'll know it when you find it because here's Here's the thing. It calls to you. Something is calling to you, okay? Across space and time. I don't know what it is, but something is calling to you. And your creativity is in the middle of that. Something is calling to you and you see it through your day. You see it through your years. And maybe it's like some certain— it could be like a wood carving. It could be something like, oh, I always want to work with wood. Oh my gosh, I would love to do pottery someday. Oh my gosh. You know, but you've really— it's like but not surfing, not this. It's like you definitely know, like, oh, I really want to take a pottery class. Why haven't you taken it yet is part of the story you're telling yourself.

And that's the shed the expectation. So is the expectation even the weight that you put on yourself that I can't be creative, I can't do that? Is that what you're talking about?

Shed the expectations is like understand how you are already living and breathing this life in. And you are already noticing certain patterns in life that you're hearing or you're seeing, certain things you prefer, you like. These are your guideposts. Let them come in. Start to name them so you understand what they are. And then give these things to yourself in a way that like, is like, okay, here's some clues. Sit with yourself. You know, what is it that's calling? What is there? What is that's calling to you through all of these things? Something is in there that's calling to you. And most listeners, you know what I'm talking about. There's stuff that you know what it is and you haven't given it to yourself yet. You've always wanted to do it, and there's like an inkling, there's something deeper inside. This is your intuition.

Could it be as simple as being, I don't know, somebody that, you know, I'm trying to think of a job where you're basically a walking Excel spreadsheet. Like, it's all about the numbers, it's all about everything lining up. You, you, you consider yourself to be just one of those types of people that's not that creative, even though I think a job like that's very creative. But could it be just this impulse to want to wear fun socks?

Oh, thank you for saying that so much, Mel.

The thing is that he's lifting up his foot on the table and he's got— he's got music bars on his socks as he's kicking back and having a glass of water.

I'm doing the whole interview with this— with this sock up on the table right now.

You're going to pull your groin if you do.

Already did once today. Anyway. All right, uh, listen, you know, wearing socks is an expression. There's a preference in there. You saw those socks, you bought them, and maybe you're keeping them a secret because they're hidden under those pants all the time. But maybe it's a little giggle. You're there for yourself. You amuse yourself by putting those socks on. Amen. You are being creative today. That is absolutely what it is. You got a belt buckle that you want to wear sometimes that is just like, well, you know, I don't know if most people care about this or not, but I do wear that thing.

Well, what I love about the simplicity of this is that it's accessible to any of us. And the first principle of shedding the weight of expectations is probably the biggest weight that people have is what you think you're supposed to be versus this small thing that you're inviting us to pay attention to that's already inside us. And I absolutely love— I'm gonna keep coming back to it, I'm sure, like the chorus in a song that becomes an earworm— that the fact that there is certain music that makes you come alive, the fact that there are certain places that make you drop your shoulders, the fact that you can taste certain things and you have this preference, the fact that you like bow ties versus— this is all evidence of this thing in you that comes alive based on the world itself. And now we're learning about how to allow ourselves, by shedding expectations that we have about who we are, to express that outwardly. Even if it's just for yourself. You're wearing funny underwear. Nobody knows, but you think it's funny. And that makes something happen in you. And that's the purpose of creativity. It's both to lift up the spirit, but there was a second part that you're talking about a lot that I wanna keep highlighting, which is the fact that you're noticing in yourself the desire to wear funny underwear, or the desire to have a purple highlighter, or the desire to take the pottery class. That is a way to start to tune your inner guitar string and pay attention to your intuition. And I wanna add to this because I think this principle is so important, there's this famous Pablo Picasso quote, right? All children are born artists. The problem is to remain an artist as we grow up. And Phil, I was looking at all this research. There was a really landmark study done that was all about creativity, and it was done in 1968. And they found that among 5-year-olds, 98% of 5-year-olds like score crazy high for creativity. By the time adults are tested for creativity, 2% of them. And I personally believe it's because at some point we don't understand that we were all born with this inside us, and we kind of mixed up that being creative is about something that you create that other people like. When really it's about allowing yourself to express yourself in whatever form it's in. And so, for me, I love this first rule that you have, that you have to shed the weight of expectations, because it's the expectations that you have on yourself, and that's how you start to close off your own creative expression.

Oftentimes parents will close off theirs and surrender it all to their kids. They'll try and put all of their unmet expectations in themselves onto their kids. Piano lessons is a great example. You take piano lessons as a kid, you quit at some point in middle school, and then later on in life you really miss it. And you're one of those people who says, I really wish I hadn't quit. But you know what you do? You sign your kids up for lessons because you're like, well, you do it. And then the kids ultimately feel not only the expectation of the pending recital and all of that, that, that happens, that turns a lot of kids off, but also they feel the weight of your unmet expectations in yourself and the regret. There's an unresolved issue within you that you thrust onto your kids.

I did this. I made all my kids take guitar lessons. All of them. And I always wanted to play guitar. I've never picked up a guitar because I have a story that I'm not good at it. You have a banjo in the studio today, and as you were tuning it, I felt this thing stirring. And that is the perfect example and evidence that there is something in you that is already alive, wanting to be expressed. And somewhere along the way, you are the one that blocked it. And so if the person listening is feeling that, should they go take lessons? Like, what is the way that you lean in, you shed the weight of expectation and you lean into this thing?

This needs to be resolved and healed on a broad scale. This specific— just the piano as an example.

Okay.

You have a strong opinion about this. I really do, because I have met so So many adults that are sitting in that regret and they get to the end of their life. The message is this: let your children witness you reconnecting to something that you lost when you were young. This is for you to build a relationship and reconnect with yourself again. And then when your kids see you do that, they will understand something about the ongoing journey of life. It doesn't end when something ends. You always have a choice.

I love how you explain things, Phil. Principle number 2, lower the stakes. Phil Cooke, what does that mean?

Creativity and intuition are the language of your soul. I'm gonna speak on this level. This is how I talk. This is me. Okay? This is where I've arrived in life. I talk on this level. I'll talk on this level to the person who I see outside the door, whoever is near me at any place. This is just the level that I want to be at and operate and vibrate at. So this is where I'm at, you know.

You know what I say? Let them.

Let them. This is the language of your soul. Your soul is— there's no one else in there. It's just you. You're the only one in there, Mel. I'm the only one in here. There's no one else in here with us, right? And it can be a scary place in here, you know. And that voice, you know, that drill sergeant voice, when it starts rocketing down you know, at you and telling you you're doing everything wrong, you're not good enough, and all these things, right? But we have to actually break things down and lower the stakes. How do we do that? In my, you know, in my humble opinion, we just have to understand that this is our realm. It doesn't belong to the same time and space that our society is pressing upon us at all times. Okay? This is your realm. This is the language of you. This is a place where you belong to you. Okay? And in that realm, you assign the values. You have to assign your own value to what it is.

And here's the thing about creativity, and I— you may disagree. We get so up in our heads, and I think the reason why we do is because when I hear the word creativity, I think about the output of the thing. And then I immediately think about how other people are gonna react to it. And for me, when you told me that one of your principles is lowering the stakes, I started to think a lot about the fact that a lot of us edit ourselves, and we tell ourselves we're not creative because we think what we're gonna make sucks. And that's not the way to think about this, as I'm listening to you. That creativity has nothing to do with the physical object or the song or the painting or what other people are going to do in reaction to it. Creativity and the purpose of it is for something inside of you to come alive. And so lowering the stakes for me sounds a little bit like this. It's not that deep. It's not that deep, Mel. We're literally talking about allowing yourself to play the piano or to wear funky underwear, which now I feel like I need to go out and buy crazy underwear just to, like, have a funny little secret that makes me feel a little bit better.

Over my jeans.

Over your jeans.

Out loud. Out loud.

Well, you know what's interesting about that is that if it's not that deep and you're lowering the stakes, you're like, can you imagine? What a day would look like if you came downstairs in your house just for the fun of it because you heard Phil Cook make a joke and you're like, "You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna shake up my family on a Monday morning. I'm gonna come downstairs with just a really serious look on my face, and I'm gonna have a pair of printed Speedo underwear with banana print on it on top of my jeans, and I'm gonna see how long it takes for people to notice." Just because I had this thing thing where Phil made me laugh, and the fact that I laughed is a sign that I'm a creative, artistic person. And now the fact that I'm even thinking about doing it— it's not that deep, but something comes alive, and you'll remember that Monday. And isn't that the point of this? And so I, I personally feel like lowering the stakes for me means before you start thinking about how good or bad the thing is, Just think of— you can't. You can't. There is a value in your life.

But, you know, Martin Scorsese, the personal is profound.

What does that mean? That's a little deep for me.

The personal is profound. Uh, you may be thinking big, but big is a product of commerce. You're talking about artifact, you're talking about consumption, you're talking about sale, and you're talking about all this stuff. In this world where all these things move fast. This is a world where dreams go to die. This is the world where comparison sneaks in and steals everything from you and steals your authenticity. Right? We don't want this. We don't need any of that. You just kind of make something that really makes sense to you and is personal to you. And even understanding that, like, you may not understand what you're doing at some times, but as your senses guide you, you will begin to understand there are things that are at play here. And when you get out of your own way, and let the universe unfold through you. You have no control over the ending of this. You just get out of the way, and you're just gonna have to let go of it. I've seen a lot of records, uh, a lot of artists kill, kill their record or kill like their chance at releasing it right at that last 5% when they've put all of their energy into it, and then they feel this massive sweep of vulnerability come in where they're like, oh my God, everyone's gonna think this is terrible, everyone's gonna— like, it's the last minute. That's the place where a lot of records and a lot of things die because you're getting ready to release it into the world where you have no control over what's going to happen, right? Most things, you don't have to release them into the world.

I want to make this relatable. Yeah. Because if you've ever wanted to have bright yellow nail polish and you go and you start painting it and the nails are almost done and you're about to be finished and you like it, but then you think, what are people going to think? Maybe this is too bright. That is that 5% moment that you're talking about.

Yes.

And we all have it. And you are a creative person at work if you're the kind of person that sits at work and you have ideas in meetings all the time and they get right from your chest, up your throat, out to your mouth. Yeah. They hit like right at the jaw.

Yeah.

That's what you're talking about. Yeah. That there is a moment where the creativity is about to flow through you, that you then close the gates, and you're saying you gotta lower the stakes.

That's the spot. The indicator is that how vulnerable you feel is an indicator of how personal of something that you made. What lies on the other side if you push through that is something you don't even understand. How meaningful that's going to be in your life.

What is it like? What is it that allows you if you walk out of the nail salon with the yellow nails?

What it is, is like it's betting on yourself and it's actually realizing that your limitations are your liberation in this realm and your limitations dictate your style and that your style is only you and only you could have made this thing. And if you find a window to actually just trust— it's a trust fall. If you find a window to actually, like, follow through and release this into the world, what you find actually is that people will meet you there, even if it's one friend, and you've never written— you've never read one of your science fiction stories, and you're sitting there and you've written like 60 of them, and you're just like, something is calling you, and there's one person that— maybe only one person you think that you're safe enough to read it to. That's a powerful moment where you actually witness yourself. It's the completion of that that actually hones your intuition. That's actually the exhale. When you get there, there's the exhale. And once you do exhale, like, you actually get to inhale again, but this time with a different fresh oxygen. You have fresh experience and something new is going to come in. And then the breathing process happens over and over, and then you start to realize You have an intuition and an inner voice. And if you start to trust it, all the doubt comes flooding in. You're like, I just got to push through this. I have no idea why, but I just have to allow it to go. And you just like close your eyes and just be like, que sera sera.

Phil, I just love listening to you. That was so amazing. Thank you for that. I think two principles in, you and I are at a perfect time for a quick break and let our wonderful sponsors get a chance to do their thing. And if you're listening to what Phil and I are talking about, and you're starting to feel more in touch with your creativity, or you're honing into that intuition. This can apply to everyone in your life. And I know when you're listening, you probably thought of a few people in particular. I know I did, that you know are way more creative than they give themselves credit for. Send them this episode. Let them hear what Phil and I are breaking down. And don't you dare go anywhere. We've got so much more to unpack. So stay with us. We'll be back after a short break. A break. You know that feeling when your brain is fried? You have like 12 irritating tasks you don't care about, but you have to do them anyway. That's where I've been lately. The administrative stuff was eating up half my day, so I've been using Microsoft Copilot as my extra set of hands. It's like having your own personal assistant. That's why Microsoft Copilot is my favorite AI tool. Last week, I had to send this long, overly complicated email about scheduling and travel, the kind of thing that takes up way too much energy for what it is. I opened Copilot, talked to it out loud while I was walking around my kitchen, and Copilot turned it into a clean, professional draft. It was amazing. And because my brain wasn't fried, I had the energy to sit down, and eat dinner with Chris without feeling mentally wiped. That's the whole point for me. Microsoft Copilot clears the clutter so I can be more present for the moments that matter. That's why I'm using it. If you want to try it for yourself, visit microsoft.com/melrobbins to download the Copilot app. Get started with Copilot today for free and see how handing off the small stuff gives you more energy for the moments that matter. That's microsoft.com/melrobbins. /melrobbins. It can be easy to forget how much me time really does matter, especially when life gets stressful. Things pile up. You're so focused on everybody else and whatever it is that's on fire right now that before you know it, you haven't really paused at all. But taking even a little time for yourself can help you reset and recharge because a moment of me time can shift how you move through the rest of your day and even through your whole week. At Massage Envy, your me time is all about you. Maybe it's a relief massage to ease those everyday aches and pains, or a relaxation massage to help you fully unwind. Or maybe your skin really deserves some attention and some love with a results-driven facial designed to focus on things like fine lines, blemishes, uneven-looking skin tone, dullness, or whatever it is that your skin needs. Whatever you need to feel and look your best, there is a service at Massage Envy that's designed to help you feel that way. Book your appointment at MassageEnvy.com today. Each location is an independently owned and operated franchise. I have 2 truths and a lie to share with you. Here we go. I high-five myself in the mirror every morning. I'm amazing at fly fishing. I have been a Verizon customer for over a decade. All right, I lied. All 3 of those are true. And, you know, Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring your current carrier bill, They'll give you a better deal. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming, and phone deals. Take your current bill to your local Verizon store today, get your better deal, and start saving for real. And one of the reasons why I've been a Verizon customer for over a decade, they have the best cell service everywhere. I travel so much for work, and Verizon is always there for me. Based on RootMetrics' best overall mobile network performance, US, second half 2025. All rights reserved. Must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions, and restrictions apply. Welcome back, it's your friend Mel, and today you and I are sitting down with the wonderful and supremely creative musician Phil Cook. Phil and I have two more principles of creativity to share with you. Okay, Phil, now that we're back, let's get into the third principle: bring yourself to the work. What does that mean to you?

My career is all about music. My bringing yourself to the work obviously can mean spending time at the piano every day, spending time with an instrument. It's bringing yourself to the altar where you are spending time with yourself and developing, right? But, you know, for me, I mean, let's look at this real quick.

He's got a tray of rocks, everybody. He's got rocks and things. What is it? What is this?

This is not work to me, which I love so much. Okay, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I'm clumsy. Like, I have— like, I always like to say my gross motor skills are gross. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, gross. Like, I have my life— I trip and fall in public. I like— I, I like— I look around, I'm like, oh man, am I the only person that trips this much in public? I drop things when I'm carrying two things. Like, I've always been clumsy, so I have to look down when I walk. Okay, okay, this is my limitation. I realize this about myself. One of my limitations is I'm clumsy. So I have to look down so I don't trip on things. But when I— in the process of that, I started noticing rocks, you know what I mean? Because I'm looking down all the time. So, so it's funny, like when we assign the value, like I just like don't know why I pick certain rocks up, but I'm just like, okay, here we are. I'm somewhere. I'm somewhere up. Maybe I'm in Lake Superior and I find, oh, here's a rock that has a perfect stripe on it. Oh my gosh, I love that stripe. Look at it. I don't know why I do. Gosh, that's a great stripe in there. Oh, here's another one. I have a whole 3 windowsills in my house right now that are filled with just rocks that have stripes. This is the one I got. This is yours, Mel. Actually, this is the one I got for you.

Is that a heart?

Sure. There it is. It's all in how you see it.

That's right. You twisted it and now it's a heart.

Exactly. And I don't know the names of these things. This is just my intuition. But in my, in my realm with like just picking up rocks, I just decided that I value these different things and I like how they look. I like how they feel. I surround myself in my house with them and I realize over time how much that means to me to just have all these rocks around me that I'm like, oh, these are all like millions of years old, way older than anything I'm ever going to understand in my life. There's something in there, right? And after I die and I'm gone away, someone will probably throw these on the ground and they'll just be rocks.

Well, you know what? They weren't for them. They were for you. And this is what I want to say about this. Okay? Because a lot of people, myself included, when they hear the word creativity, they think painting, they think music, they think knitting, they think building, they think pottery, they think writing, they think art, they think about the output. But what I love about these examples, and especially the way you come alive, when you explain how taking a walk and actually noticing what rocks you're drawn to—

oh yeah—

is creativity. Because your intuition is what is pulling you toward certain rocks. You don't pick them all up.

No.

And what you feel about it is creativity coming alive inside you. And we've all had those experiences of walking on a beach or walking on a trail, and you stumble upon something a shell, a rock, a feather, a cool thing. Look at that one.

Look at that one.

And that is the power of creativity in your life because it's no longer just a boring-ass walk. No. You are connected to something bigger, and that bigger thing is both yourself and the larger forces at work in the world. And what I love about this conversation is it's broadening out what it means to live a creative life, like how you organize a shelf. Whether or not you collect shells or certain types of statues, how you solve a problem, how you may talk to a customer, that you drop your tone of voice in order to kind of play the note to get somebody to— like, all of that is what you're talking about when you say creativity. You know, you've spoken a lot about your kids. You have two sons, one with autism. How has your son's way of seeing the world shaped how you show up creatively? I mean, do you see echoes of his perspective in your own way that you move through the world?

My kids are my greatest teachers. I've come to know them as that. They help me to see myself in real time, dealing the cards that I was dealt and understanding the choices that I'm making every day, you know? And the way they both see the world has really helped me to understand how I see the world too. You know, my oldest son is 14, just turned 14. He has autism. And autism is a— it's like your 5 senses are on, are wide open with no filter at all times. So everything is coming in at all times. And The effect of that for me to understand over time, experientially, you know, what it must be like to be in that body is perceiving so much at all times. It's hard to know exactly how to talk about it. And I've come to understand that autism is— autism is an evolution in my heart, in my mind, the way I feel and understand him. It's a return to nature. It's beautiful the way nature exists as it is. And we should be looking to— we should be— I should be looking to my son to really understand, like, how many ways our society has just gradually boilerplated up the amount of noise, the amount of just like violence that we have to take in, the amount of just distraction, the amount of everything. And we've kind of agreed to it on all these terms where we become so numb to it. And the reminder of him to me is to like, I can't believe how much we've accepted, how much noise and volume we've accepted, how much terror, you know, we've accepted as just this is how things are. And forgetting that all of us bring not only the energy we bring, but all this internal energy that we have all day. There's a day like 2 weeks ago And I was having, I was having a hard moment. It was internal. I was in the bathroom. I was taking a shower. So he was in a different room. And it was, it was, I was, I was going through it. I was just really being hard on myself because I still am capable of that any day of the week. And he knocks on the door and he just comes in and he just gives me a hug. He knew. From 2 rooms away. He could feel it from 2 rooms away that Dad's having a hard time. So I imagine what it's like for him to be in a crowd, for him to be at school all day and have to absorb all these inner conflicts that people are having with themselves and then all the rest of it. So I've found when I see him going through his days is that creating an environment that fosters quiet and peace is, is one level. Playing my piano in a very certain way at night when they go to bed, gently, you know. And then, you know, just paying attention to like— he helps me. I watch him when he meets people. I watch him when he's reading a room, and he's like a guide for me of like what's really going on in this room energetically, what's going on. Yeah, I learned so much from him all the time, and he has such a purity to him And I realize when I watch him how like he is with animals, especially how he is with babies. He's so pure in like every baby that comes up to him, just like they just light up with him for some reason. They just, whatever, any kind of kid that he has, even if they're just really closed off or scared or timid child, he somehow has this way of just like meeting them exactly where they are. And they, and they just, they just open right up to him. There's a purity in there and a return to nature is what I'm saying. So I think for me, I just, you know, I realize how important it is for him to have his very quiet sanctuary place. Funny enough, when he gets home from school, his sanctuary in his room is where he puts on Thunderstruck by AC/DC every single day after school and turns it up. And I hear a bunch of banging around in the room. I have no idea what's going on in there, but I assume it's awesome. It's very private. Probably dancing and air guitaring, whatever it is, you know. But he— everyone needs that. Everyone needs that. Space to regroup. You know, we got to find that sanctuary, regroup, and, and everyone needs it.

Phil, that is just amazing. And I want to take a minute and just allow what Phil just shared with you to really sink in. And to you listening, I know you have so many folks in mind that can really benefit from what Phil and I are talking about. Send them this episode. Let them experience the gift that is Phil Cooke. Like the Picasso quote goes, we are all born artists. Send this episode to your loved ones who may have forgotten that. And we're going to take a quick pause so you can hear a word from our sponsors. Oh, and this music that you're going to hear going into the break, this is from Phil's newest album, Appalachia Borealis. And we have one more principle from Phil and I on the way. So stay with us. You know, I'm a real homebody, and one of my favorite life hacks is having your home reflect who you are. Not who you used to be or what you think it's supposed to look like. Just you now. And Ashley has pieces that fit whatever your style is. In fact, I'm scrolling Ashley's site right now and I am immediately drawn to the pieces in the Serene Bay outdoor collection. Oh my gosh. My personal style, it's cozy and functional. The pieces in this collection feel elevated but still livable. But what I love most about Ashley is that every piece doesn't just look great. They're built for real life with features like stain-resistant fabrics that are easy to clean and even machine washable cushion covers. Plus, Ashley offers white glove delivery, so everything is brought right into your home and set up where you want it, making the entire process easy from start to finish. Visit your local Ashley store or head to ashley.com to find your style. When it comes to your health and wellness, trust matters. Whether you're working toward fitness goals, building a wellness routine, or just stocking up on everyday essentials for your family, where you shop really matters. And that's why I want to tell you about our new sponsor, iHerb. It's your one-stop shop for vitamins, supplements, sports nutrition, personal care, and even grocery, baby, and pet products. For nearly 30 years, iHerb has delivered wellness products sourced directly from trusted brands to more than 15 million customers around the world. And here's what sets them apart. There are no third-party sellers on iHerb's website or app, so you can shop confidently knowing that for supplements and sports nutrition products, brands provide certificates of analysis, and select products are independently verified through the iTested Lab program too. And if something doesn't meet your expectations, iHerb makes it right with easy returns and simple refunds. Visit iherb.com/mel and use code MEL20 for 20% off your order. That's iherb.com/mel with code MEL20. There's a difference between liking a house and actually getting it. Redfin is built to close that gap. Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. So when you find a home you love, you're not a step behind when it's time to make an offer. That means less watching great home homes disappear and more zeroing in on the one you'll actually end up calling home. Redfin helps turn saved listings into real addresses. Get started at redfin.com. Own the dream. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins, and today's episode is all about getting back in touch with your creative self. Now, Phil Cook has spent the past two decades working with artists like Bon Iver and producing several of his own albums. Phil is one of the most creative people I know, and that's why I brought him into our Boston studio today to share his four creative principles with you. You had sort of hinted to this earlier. It's find a sanctuary for your creativity. So tell me all about this fourth principle, Phil.

Sanctuary is a place where the world falls away. And what that means to you is what it means to you. It's just a place that you find the world falls away. It could be while you're cooking, you know, could be just taking a walk. It could be that song that, you know, when you put it on, nothing else happening in the world. Nothing else doesn't matter. You're singing along. You're one with it. You're in your thing. You're flowing. You're in. You're in your space. You're safe. Even if it's 3 minutes. Even if it's your car, sanctuary can be a rock in your pocket that just brings you back to a time where you just— something was really important and meaningful in your life. And when you touch it, you realize, like, okay, I'm gonna get through this. Sanctuary is everywhere, all around us, all the time. You just have to find and notice what yours is and then start to explore what it is. Start to explore your sanctuary. It can be made out of, you know, all the things that you like, all the rocks, all the things, all the wood, all the jokes you have. You surround yourself by these things and understand, like, this is you belonging to you. I belong to striped rocks. I belong to Curtis Mayfield's voice. You know, I belong to northern Wisconsin and the lakes. I belong to fireside conversations with deep chosen family and friends. These are the things that I belong to. These are all my sanctuary. So practicing these means you're building the thing. That is safe from outside intrusion.

Phil, that is so beautiful. And I, I want to offer up a couple examples because I love that you said it's all around you and it's something that you need and it's something that you can take with you. And so for me, as you were describing the various things, I started thinking about the walk that I take my dogs on. I started thinking about the place that I like to sit at home underneath this cover in my favorite old Adirondack chair. And I started thinking about— I don't know why I'm crying, but I did. Yeah, because it's there. I'm thinking about, like, just being out in the garden. I love to just walk around. It sounds kind of dumb, but it isn't.

So good.

And just look. Okay, what came up today? What little weed is growing? Let me pull that out. Let me admire the flower that's starting to open. There's millions of places. In front of a fire reading a book. Like, if you really start to think about this, there are places where this happens for you. And what you're saying in terms of tapping into and unlocking the force of creativity and intuition in your life is that paying attention to those places and spaces and times of day or the thing on the shelf or the photo of somebody that really allows you to stop and exhale. That's what you mean by sanctuary. You don't have to create anything there.

You don't need an altar. You just have to realize it's in here. It's in here where you're trying to build. You know, this is where you find yourself over and over again and where you meet yourself fully.

How do you think the person listening or watching right now could go about this? Like, what would you say if somebody's never thought about this? I mean, I kind of believe that even as you're hearing us share what we're sharing, that there's something inside you, that guitar string is starting to shake a little, like you're starting to attune to what you're saying. So I think you do know. But if you were to give somebody just a simple thing to do, what would it be in order to start to find that sanctuary, that place for you where the world drops away?

Find a way to start where you are. You might be a city person and your whole life is bustle and hustle, and that's what you understand about the rhythm of life. That's the music you're hearing. That's the landscape you're reading every day. That's where you're going to draw from. If you're in the country, if you're in the desert, if you're at the ocean, wherever that landscape is where you start, that's where you start. Your environment is there. That's the landscape you're reading. All the patterns that you're taking in with your 5 senses are just coming in through that landscape, you know. And so start to just pay attention to what you notice. Start to notice what you notice. And worthiness— you have to always understand, look, you are somebody's daughter, you are somebody's mother, you are somebody's aunt, you are somebody's granddaughter. All these people are a circle around you. And I know that there's people in your life that just loved you for exactly who you were and saw you and got you. Doesn't have to be a lot of people, but you belong to that space and you need to see yourself from their point of view. I always tell people, like, when you're listening to those mixes on the couch and you're just listening for, am I out of tune? This is going to happen. Oh my gosh, what's going to happen? And you just only criticize and just be like, if your grandma was sitting on the couch next to you, And she's listening. She'd just be sitting there. It's great. So great. You know, that's so great. Oh, wow.

Cool.

Yeah. You know what I mean? My grandma was really wild and zany, but like, if she's— bring her, bring her in there. Like, put her in there. That's the, that's the voice you are hearing with. That's the love that accepted you. That's why you're doing what you do. You need to live in that space. Grandmother energy is the energy we all need. Always, all time. It's— there's a universal benevolence. That passes through that all of us can draw from. We know what it is, even if we didn't necessarily get it right. You know what that is? It's unconditional love. It's really being seen. What do we need? We need to be seen in our life.

Well, I think first you have to see yourself. And what I love about Find a Sanctuary is that for all of us, there is a place where you feel like you can exhale. In fact, Baudelaire, who is the extraordinary producer that worked with us on this film, with you and me on this episode today, was saying that when he was in New York City, that sanctuary for him was Central Park. That's where he would go in the middle of the day, you know, in the busy workday, just to exhale. There is a place. There's a walk. There's a trail that you like where you look down and look for rocks, or you look up and look at the birds. And so I think you can start there, and then— Notice what happens when you find a way to actually meet yourself there.

If what you're doing produces some kind of a thing and you know exactly who that's for and you make it for somebody and you have that in your heart, then you really truly know how to breathe out this creativity. That's truly where it is. It doesn't even ever have to go beyond that. It can just be sharing it with one person that you make it for. And last fall, this is the newest thing. This is the newest thing right here. I grew up a Boy Scout. I had a pocket knife, and I would just like, and I made points for 40 years. I would just sit there like, oh yeah, cool, you know, just hacking, hacking away like a man and hacking a brush, you know what I mean? Uh, and, and so whittling, right? But it was like so crude, such a crude thing. And I'm at a fire with my friend Daniel last fall, and we're having— we're up all night, and I can't see because it's a fire. I can't see my hands. And I start by going thump, thump, thump, thump, thump. And eventually I realize I start to talk about my girlfriend whose father has just passed away suddenly and all the worry I have for her and wish I could take this worry off her, you know? And I'm sitting and talking and I realize that by feel, I'm just slowly like using the knife. I'm kind of unconsciously getting out of my own way. I don't know what's going on. I'm not sure. I'm just talking and this is happening. And essentially, by the hour's end, I had carved, like, basically the shape of the inside of my hand.

Into wood.

Into wood. And I've shaved it with the blade, with the edge. I've shaved it smooth. And I shaved a worry path for a thumb in there. And I worried it out. Like, I worried the whole thing out. And I knew it was for her when I gave it to her because I had worried about her while I made it. And then I realized in that moment how I was a chain right there with— my grandpa gave me a whetstone when I was a kid, and I have his wood carving knife above my mantle. I've never used it, just sat there. I've always wanted to work with wood my whole life. Always wanted to. I always like, I want to make a chair. I want to make something like that. That's called to me. Like, that's something that called me since I was a kid. But I was like, I'm clumsy. I play piano. There's no way I'm not cutting a finger off. There's just no way I'm going to cut my cut my finger off. So that desire, though, called to me and called to me. Yeah, I'm 45 years old and I'm, and I'm sitting on this fire, and I realize in that moment that my intuition is taking care of it for me. It's doing it for me. I got out of my own way long enough for me to realize that I did something for directly to someone else, and, and I can do this. And so this is what I've been doing, and I'm sharing it with the audience today because it's very private for me. It's very private. It's just something one-to-one. I, I— but I'm doing it because I have an opportunity to just talk about something that's very personal to me, and I don't care how good it is. I don't care if there are people that can whittle a loon right now out of something, you know what I mean? That's good. This is what my things look like, you know. But last week I was at my cabin, you know, and, um, you know, and when I, I make one for him— so this is with an M, this is the Mel.

Oh, Phil!

So this is a Oh my gosh, it's so smooth.

Yeah, it's like you can hold— you literally— it's like I feel like you're holding your finger and then you're like, it's like having somebody's hand in your hand. And then you've got this little like, like thing that you rub your—

never going to sell them. I'm never going to make them beyond— it's just like, I'm just, I just, I flap. I was a kid, I flapped a lot when I get excited. I have a lot of energy and it's just a way for me to like It just helps me worry away something and also think about somebody. And that's just my own thing. That's like something that intuition told me to do. And somehow I got in my own way enough to realize that it connected me to my mother and my grandfather, and that I'm just following suit in this longer line. And I'm very honored to be on this podcast. And this is just something that I, I just am.

I am so honored. I feel like I have a piece of you.

Yeah.

Because I do.

Yeah. And keep it in your pocket.

I will keep it in my pocket. I love this. And I love absolutely everything that you have shared today. I got so much out of this.

Me too.

I mean, what a gift you are. I would love, Phil, for you to speak directly to the person who has been with us, and if they take one action out of everything that you have shared today, what do you think the most important thing to do is?

Know that you belong to you. Know that there's nobody else in there. And if you can find a way to talk to yourself and give yourself what you need, like a, like a, like a friend, be that to yourself. That there's so much in store, the depth, not the quantity, the quality of your life, your inner world. And these things, we go to therapy, these are helpful. We meditate, we go for runs. But there's a different expression. Our soul longs for things that are older than we know. And we can participate in this life in a way that really tells a story why we're here, what we're doing here. You know, in a way for others to know, in a way for others to feel. And you paying attention to your inner voice and coming to know what that is through creativity and knowing that you already are in your own way, you already are, you know, allows you to be a part of that story in a way that you will ultimately understand in some way. And in some ways you won't. And that's what's so beautiful about it, because you know not the seeds you plant when you say yes to you.

You know, I'll tell you what I'm gonna do. Well, first of all, I'm gonna take my worry whittle, my worry stick. Okay, it's called a worry stick. I'm gonna take my Phil's worried worry stick, I'm gonna stick it in my pocket, and then I'm gonna go out to my favorite place to walk, and I'm gonna look for a striped stone. Yeah. And when I see a stone with a stripe in it, I'm going to pick it up and put it in my pocket next to my worry stick.

Yeah.

And I am going to put it somewhere that I'm going to see, probably my bedside table, every single day. And I'm going to have that striped rock be a reminder of you, Phil, and a reminder that I am a creative person. I will never, ever look at creativity the same way again. Like, I really get that it's like a part of who you are, that it's like something there for you to tap into. That deepens your experience of life itself.

Oh yeah.

Yeah. I just totally get it, Phil. Thank you.

Thank you for having me here. I just am so— I'm so honored. This is amazing. You know, honestly, I mean, you know, we, you know, having to like shed the weight, all the steps that were in here apply to everything. Last night in the hotel room, even, you know, me just preparing to get onto this show. I had to go through all 4 of these steps last night to like, remind myself that it's okay that I'm doing this and that, you know, I mean, sometimes you're just a 46-year-old guy who's just, you know, freshly divorced and trying to raise two kids and starting over with his life. And you get through a strange series of circumstances, you get asked to be on a show that's full of researchers and experts, and you're like, how do I unhook from that? How do I actually— is this a test to fail? How do I get there? All the things were happening in my head, you know, but like This is— I'm telling you, I'm serious. It's just like, for me, like, to have these artifacts around me and just bring them with me because I trusted in them. And I, I, I run my thumb on that thing all night last night, and I just like had my grandma and that look on her face the whole night. And I realized, like, it's okay, Phil. Just— I know what she'd tell me, you know? Just, you do you, man. It should be okay. You know, like, there's— this is— it's okay. You know, I know so many people that I would love that deserve to be on this show and that I think are just beautiful thinkers, and they're the most inspirational people. People in my life, and they're all here with me today. And yeah, so grateful.

Phil Cook, you are an incredible human being.

Oh, so are you, Mel Robbins.

Thank you.

So are you.

Thank you for being here. Thank you for just exhaling with us today and teaching us to exhale and tap into that undeniable creative force that's inside each and every one of us. I mean, just— Thank you, thank you, thank you. I love you.

I love you. Thank you.

You're welcome. And I love you. I love you for taking the time to listen to something that will help you come alive. And thank you for sharing this with everybody in your life that you care about. Everybody needs a little Phil Cook in their life. And it's my honor to have introduced you to him. Thank you for being here. In case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And I promise you, tapping into this creative force within you, learning how to exhale, holy cow, is that gonna make your life better. Alrighty, I will see you in the next episode. I'll be waiting for you the moment you hit play to welcome you in. I'll see you there. Because I always— I have to have diarrhea of the mouth to the point.

Oh yeah.

And so the, the dyslexic etiquette on Mel is take the last thing she said and stick it in the front.

Thank you. I think we'll be very similar in this whole realm.

Do you need anything else?

Any—

you got your water?

Got my water. I brought all my accoutrements.

When I was 15, I spent a month working on an archaeological dig. I was talking to one of the archaeologists. Oh my God. See, I can't say the word. Whatever I was talking to. You know, Mark Twain once said it takes a simple mind to spell a word one way. Mel Robbins says it takes a simple mind to say a word just one way. See, I'm being creative. I'm just letting it flow.

You did that.

I'm lowering the stakes.

Let's be real here.

Shedding expectations.

That was real.

Well, first of all, I'm going to take my worry whittle. My worry stick. My worry stick. Okay, it's called a worry stick. I'm going to take my Phil's worried worry stick. I'm going to stick it in my pocket and then I'm going to go out to my favorite place. This is so good.

Sounds juicy.

Oh my God, Phil, I love you so much. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. SiriusXM Podcasts.

Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance, and now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14-second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.

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