GerdTalks Episode 6 by Futurist Gerd Leonhard: Why and how Green is the new Digital (Audio)

Hi, I'm Gerd Leonhard Futurist in Zurich, Switzerland. Welcome to Gerd Talks, my new bi weekly video and audio talk show about the future. Welcome to Gertalks. This is episode number six. It's a great pleasure to be here today with you guys. I know there's millions of people watching, so I'm very happy about that. This has been a really great topic for me for quite some time. The whole discussion about what's happening with sustainability and it's been going into warp drive, of course, in the last couple, you know, basically two years since COVID But before we dive into the subject matter, a couple of practical things. Okay, we're going live. We are live on YouTube and LinkedIn and Twitch. We're not live on Facebook. I don't like Facebook. Talk about that some other time. You probably know about it anyway. And today we're having a new tool that we're using. It's called Minty Meter and Mentimeter can be used on your mobile. And we're going to show you a little URL that you can see here very soon where you can basically just tune in into this and you can comment. It's kind of like a word cloud, you know, so it's more like you can put comments there and anything you want, not really questions, more for like commenting. And it looks like this. I'll show you in a second. So basically, yeah, it opens up the window for conversation, so you could just put stuff in there. And this is a QR code. If you want to scan the QR code, that may be easier for you guys to get involved with. Other than that, the questions and the discussion will be happening right here using the commenting function on YouTube and on LinkedIn. And we're going to try to take as many comments as we can, so keep them very short. Okay. And with a later edition of GOTalks, this is number six. Now we're going to start bringing in live guests. We're just getting used to the tech here and everything. And if you have any questions, please do put them in the chat box so we can see them. Okay, so let's dive in and think about what's happening here. So first, I really have observed in the COVID times that the COVID debate and all the things that we had to do to make it work in the COVID times and now the rebound is kind of very similar to the discussion about climate change. It's essentially a test run. You know, we did many things in Covid that we didn't want to do. And we did many things that we didn't agree with and it really brought out a lot of difficult points in society and ourselves. And our lives were changed and are changing because of COVID And Covid isn't going away, it's becoming endemic. Right. So it's a whole different story. But climate change is kind of like this. When we have a real reason to work together, we're going to have a lot more impetus to actually make it work. And this is starting to happen right now. So you could say Covid. Yeah, been difficult and will be difficult, but climate change is more like, I would say x100 in size. Right. And of course the most important part is to realize that business as usual as we know it is kind of dead. The concept of continuing as we have, I think that's quite unlikely and that's very unlikely with COVID We're not going to go on as we had, even though we may return to the shops and to flying. But differently now with climate change, we're not going to go back. We're not going to go back to the times where we were jolly, doing all these things that made our climate worse. We're going to basically start a new way of doing things pretty much around all of the things that are surrounding this. And the other boost, in fact here of course is the war in the Ukraine and Russia and the Russian aggression towards the Ukraine that has kind of brought us together in Western Europe. But it's also really brought down some very serious conflicts and discussion about where things are going. And it's kind of boiling down to 10 years, as I like to say, of very serious change. Not all negative, but, but definitely different than before. So climate change, the whole debate about global warming, we're not going back to that debate about. We'll worry about that later. We're not. The good news is that we have many good things happening. The power of technology is just absolutely mind boggling. The innovation platforms that we have around the world offering us all kinds of interesting angles on monetizing technology and solving solutions, many of them have directly to do with climate change and the sustain revolution that we see in energy and protein, which I'll talk about shortly in transportation and investing, and finally the fact that green companies are doing great on the stock markets, whether it's electric vehicles or fuel cells or solar or electric battery vehicles. Basically science and technology is propelling us into a new age of green. And that's why I love the phrase, I don't know where I saw it first, but I like to use it. Green is a new digital. That's so true because first we went through digital transformation and now we're going to green transformation and they're actually going together very well. And I think this is really important for us to realize what's happening here. For example, this chart shows you the exponential cost reduction, which means that the things that we need, like LEDs and batteries and data storage and computing are getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. And that means that we can actually do things with technology. We can keep pollution from spiraling, we can be more efficient, we can save 50% of our operating budgets on making things cheaper and more reliable, and we can have smart cities. And really, in the end, it's all about saying, well, you know, we can actually make this work. And it's kind of a paradox that I think in the next 10, 20 years we're going to make all of this work and we're going to be able to stop the warming, say beyond the 2 degrees, which is bad enough, and then we can go back and actually fix things that we did. And that's going to be a really interesting time. But 20 years of pretty hard work is ahead of us here. And when we look in this direction, I love this Blade Runner background that I keep using. It's science fiction is becoming science fact, right? And with carbon technologies, climate technology. That is so true. You can see in this chart here, basically what's happening is you see this concept of all these things unfolding, that the plateau of climate tech innovation in one to two years and then two to five years, which will be coming up here shortly, right? A slew of things that are happening. Many people are saying that the next unicorns, the next billion dollar companies, will be the ones in climate technology innovation. And I think that is so true. It's a fantastic opportunity. I think McKinsey once said, Roughly $100 trillion opportunity in climate tech innovation. So. So it's not just something that we have to do, but it's something that we can do. It is also going to be a pretty amazing business, but we have to invest in it now. And you can see now what's happening again with the war in the Ukraine, Russia, is that people are pushing, of course, for renewable energy to be developed quicker at the same time we have energy shortage. So that's really boiling down some tough decisions, especially here for Europe. But I do think that in the end climate change will win out on this because we're going to want to be more independent of oil and Gas, of course, primarily in the Russian case. So as we're moving into this future, you can also, just one example here, see what's happening with meat. The idea of meat replacement, you can see in this chart here. Conventional meat will shrink in 2040 and vegan meat replacement, you know, tofu burgers and insect burgers and stuff like that. And cultured meat is coming. I know you find it maybe kind of weird. I tasted it the other day. It's actually not that bad. Here's a shot of it. This is the Memphis burger. Memphis meats. It's basically chicken from a cell that's cultivated in the lab. So it's no dead animals, but it is from animals. So it's not vegetarian in that sense. But you know, I kind of have the hunch that the future is vegetarian, regardless of how you look at it. But this is all going to contribute to the possibility of creating a green future and creating a new market. We're not going to get quite as far as this scene here from Star Trek showed. And I love this one because it's. Yeah, it's a little bit off the wall for the time being. One pan fried catfish. Yeah, the pan fried catfish isn't going to be here anytime soon like this. But now we have technology that can literally make meet Bill Gates and Richard Branson have invested. And that's just one of the piece of all these explanations why I think the Big Green is now possible as well as kind of inevitable. And yeah, it's a painful process to make all those switches. You know, I was just in Dubai and before that in Saudi Arabia six weeks ago. Of course, for those countries, phenomenal shift. But I think they're going to get around the bend by investing into technology and healthcare and, and education and of course, green technology as well. So as we're moving into this future, there's four revolutions. Agricultural revolution roughly 1,000 years. Industrial revolution was roughly 100 years. The digital revolution roughly 25 years. And now we have the sustainability revolution that is roughly 10 years. So the evolutions are happening quicker and quicker and quicker because the exponential the industries are converging and the outcome is combinatorial. So I really think that the next 10, 20 years to switch to a whole sustainable lifestyle pretty much across the board is entirely possible and we will have to suffer from the 2 degrees warming. But going back, we can probably have technology in 20 years that will help us alleviate it or even reduce it again and sort of replenish the planet. And also this chart shows you, for example, the Race to build a commercial fusion reactor. That also means we're going to have unlimited energy by having fusion nuclear. I know many people don't really like nuclear energy, but I think it's just part of the package now. And nuclear fusion will be the ticket to sort of abundant energy. Think of abundant energy like abundant music with Spotify, just everywhere. Once we have that maybe 10, 15 years, some people would say mind boggling opportunity. Also of course, artificial intelligence. So this slide shows it pretty well. Enterprise artificial intelligence, right? That's what we need for climate change. We need to make sure that we can use AI for intelligence switching, for pollution prevention, for monitoring. We shouldn't use AI to in the end monitor everybody all the time. But this is going to be a big deal, using technology to fight pollution not just in less carbon or carbon offsetting or sequestration, but also of course in preventing the production of carbon in the first place by just being more efficient. So the sustainability revolution is here. Now. You take data, everything, what are called the game changers, network everything, cloud everything, smart everything, and you end up here with sustainable everything. I mean we're going warp drive into that future where that's possible. I would say the next five years, hold the tickets. I mean if you're not going to be sustainable everything, you probably won't have a place in the economy in 10 years. And it's kind of hard to imagine today because today is kind of an optional conversation for many people. It's getting hotter, but this is definitely something that we're going to see until we get to this point, right, the burial ground for gas, oil and coal. Roughly in the next 10 years, coal first followed by oil and then followed by gas. Depends on the nuclear variant, how quickly we can get there. But the end of all is palatable and I think you can feel that everywhere clients are pulling out, oil companies are pulling out. Right now there's a big of a hiccup here, of course because of the war. But sustainable everything is no longer an ideology, like a concept, right? It's humanity's business plan. And that is why it's basically the package of green and blue that will give us a pretty amazing future. You can see here in this sort of wall here that everybody is pursuing it, whether it's Larry Fink from Blackrock Investments and Funds or whether it's the carbon papers, whether it's Swiss Re, whether it's Silicon Valley, we're moving into a sustainability revolution and that is tangible and it's here now. And many people are looking at this and saying, wow, that's interesting. Look at this, right? I mean, this chart is pretty amazing. Strong optimist that we can still solve climate change. 41% are soft optimists. This is from Proterra Solutions, right? There's a couple fatalists and deniers and a few that don't know. But generally speaking, that's pretty surprising. We're going to see a lot of action here. This is a huge opportunity. Probably the biggest opportunity in my lifetime is the switch to renewable energy and sustainable everything. And that's where we are going. So here's the ticket for this future. Big Green and Big Blue. That's the future. We start with digitization and many things wrong with digitization also, of course, in that sometimes we're using it too much and it's overwhelming. But different story. And decarbonization, which means to change everything to renewable energy made possible by technology. And here's a tough one, right? Reformation. To really make this work, we're going to have to reform what we want. We're going to have to reform the capital markets. We're going to have to reform what we do. We have to change what we do. Like I try to decarbonize everywhere now. I don't have a car anymore. I'd like to take the train, but you know, it's tough. I agree with you, all of you is tough. And of course I certainly don't want to give up on a nice piece of meat, but I'm willing to pay what it takes. We're going to have to reform our society to make this work, not just how we use energy. And that's a very, very big deal because we're switching in this kind of logic from the ego system. You can see that here in the car industry example, light, all centered on car and oil to what I call the ecosystem. And that is basically a completely connected environment where everything is holistic and circular. And that is where we are going. Circular. Everything I know again been discussed for what, 20 years, people, planet, Profit, Elkington and others and all the things we have discussed. But now it's possible, it's feasible and it's profitable. So that to me is the ticket for a pretty amazing future movement towards what I call a sustainable capitalism. People, Planet, purpose and prosperity, which has kind of become my motto of my work. I think every CEO should only get paid a dividend or a bonus once they ticked off all those four boxes. And you can see they're creeping up now in the behavior of Patagonia and Unilever and many other companies. And of course, in the sanctions against Russia, same kind of topic about planet and purpose, of course. And Robert F. Kennedy, 1960, he said, GDP, GNP measures everything except that which makes our lives worthwhile. We have to keep that in mind. We don't want to measure stuff that doesn't matter. Let's measure four things. And I think that is the ticket to the future. As we're going here into this huge pivoting phase, you know, following Covid, we're basically pivoting on every part of our society and business. So first, the climate change mitigation adaptation, tough one, but totally doable. The next one, the new economic logic, sort of an inclusive capitalism, followed by the fight against inequality. You know, inequality is the number one reason why we're getting into deep trouble with democracy, why we have terrorism, why we have global unhappiness and all of these things. That was a discussion last week or two weeks ago in our discussion on the future of democracy. So if we see this in this context, I think Big Green is definitely the new digital, but hopefully with a cleaner solution. And one thing that's really important here is also to say that it's not just about de growth. You know, the cruise ship is actually moving here. I hope it is. It is about sustainable growth agenda, the circular agenda. It can't be about not growing. I think in the end, growth is something that we always have to watch. But you know, most people want to have children. Not everybody, increasingly less. I think I have two kids and people want to eat, they want to travel. We're not going to live in a world that doesn't grow. But overpopulation isn't our problem anymore. As anybody will tell you. Elon Musk says that underpopulation is our problem. The opposite. So de growth to me is not the ticket for this. But there has to be sustainable, inclusive circular growth to give back, to pay what what it costs. And this is also something technology will afford us. Like carbon offsetting, I think will become mandatory. Every time you take a flight, you have to pay carbon offsetting. We may even see a climate tax in Europe, mandatory tax for all of us. I'd be the first one to want to pay for it, even though everybody of course hates taxes. Circular growth agenda is our ticket for this. Just to summarize this, I think there's no vaccine for the climate crisis, but there is a treatment. And the treatment we're starting to realize right now again is Big Blue, not IBM, but big technology, Big Green, and ultimately Big policy. And I know this is a tough one because we may want big policy and wise policy. We probably don't want big state parenthesis in the sense of the state looking at everything that we're doing. We want to keep our freedom from that as well. At the same time, I don't see any other choices but for the state to be involved in the discussion about how we can make this happen. I'm quite happy with how the European Commission is looking at this. I know it's a bit complicated when you're looking at all the facts. But this is the package, right? Big policy, big blue and big green, big tech. All that coming together is going to be our ticket to the future. So I want to thank you for your attention. I know I've probably talked too long again, but hey, you know, it's my show. Just kidding. So now I'm going to be up for your questions. Let's hear some questions. Let's see what we've got here. Let's see what kind of comments we're seeing here. Okay, Skip Bowman, again, you can ask questions here on YouTube and Twitter we have the mentimeter. If any of you are mentimetering, you can put that in there. But the cleanest way is YouTube and Twitter. So we have a question from Skip Bowman from LinkedIn. Thanks. Just spent the day co creating the vision for District Energy. I'm going to zoom this a little bit so I can see it better. Hang on just one second here. Optimization and so on. Spot on. So thanks very much for your kind comments. That's very good to hear positive things. By the way, on that note, don't forget to watch my film the Good Future. I'm going to play a little bit of it at the end. That is the key topic. Also talking about climate change. We also have a new one called the Good Future Explained and it is on YouTube as well and explaining all the context of how that could possibly happen. Okay, let's have the next comment and see what's happening here. Green is in your digital well, thank you. That's kind of. That's nice to hear. Before we go on from this one, let me actually no, let's move on to the next one here. Let's bring your questions in here. And also the wall on mentimeter. I don't see any posts here. So Skip, again, how do you see how we engage employees on this journey? You know, I think that employers are already on this journey by and large we have to allow them to speak about it and to say something and to allow them to comment and to bring them into the discussion. You know, for a long time it was like, when you speak about the environment and green futures, it would be kind of like throwing sand in the gearbox, like something that would keep business from happening. But now it's the reverse. So I think to bring people on the same agenda is to have a larger story about what companies do. And you can see successful companies doing this, including what I mentioned earlier. The best example really is Unilever as a company moving towards a people plan, that purpose and prosperity agenda. And now there's a stock market for this called the Long Term Stock Exchange in San Francisco, where people get paid. Basically you go to the stock market, you register there because you have a different agenda. And to involve your staff in this, of course, would be ultimately crucial. More storytelling, more collaboration. And now that we're working online, maybe that can happen easier. Thanks for the question, Skip. And if there are any other questions, otherwise I'll just keep pontificating. So can I elaborate on degrowth? Claudia, thank you for the question. You know, I think that a certain amount of not doing things will be required. That's the degrowth part. You know, for example, not taking spurious trips just for the weekend to Thailand or. So maybe that's not such a good idea after all, because we have to change our behavior as well. Maybe not having a car, sharing a car, or taking public transportation. And I think that there's things that we should do away with, period, like cruise ships, which I don't believe would add much to the equation, would make a big difference. And of course that forces people to change their agenda. Generally speaking, I don't think it's a good idea to say that we can't grow. Like, there's a great story by the guy who wrote the Circle, Dave Eggers. He has a new book out called the Every or Just. I think it's just Every or the Every, where he talks about exactly this. Like, we don't leave the house because it creates CO2. We don't go on excursions, we don't visit each other, we go virtually because we save CO2 and we stop polluting. I don't think that's a very good idea. I think we should pay what it takes. Principle number one, and principle number two is that we have to try to offset what we have created. And the whole discussion about degrowth is to say, well, it has to be growth within reason. And clearly in 20 years, when we're at the end of this kind of disruption period, 10, 20 years. We're moving into being a transplanetary species that may be optimistic, 20 years. But there is ways to accommodate the growth, but we haven't really paid much attention to it. So this is a question of priority, not of total rule. Like I would say basically saying, okay, degrowth is a hard black and white rule, probably not such a good idea. But the rule will be to make it sustainable and to put limits on certain kinds of growth. I know that's a very big Discussion Club of Rome 1972, right? The limits of growth. When you read that today, you wonder why not much more of it has happened. I mean, the UN Climate Change Panel, the ICPP I think it's called, just recently said it's Code Red for humanity. And clearly that is something we must tackle. But I don't think we can tackle it by saying, okay, we won't have kids, we won't travel, we will eat less. Those are all probably good ideas within reason. But I think degrowth is probably a tough agenda also on the political side. So trying to be a little bit more realistic here for change. I know I'm sometimes not known for being very realistic. So yeah, let's bring up the next comment if there is one, or put them here on the wall. Okay. Robert Sean McGrew. My reformation sounds catchy. The reality is human nature ebbs and flows as it has throughout history. One cannot force reformation. I'm totally with you on this one. I think really what's happening is the underlying question of reformation and real deep change of what we are is the question of whether humans are good or bad. And many times when I speak about the DDR as I call it, that's digitization, decarbonization, reformation. And we do have a great website for that, by the way. The DDR world. The DDR world, if you want to take a look at that. But basically the assumption that humans will never do the right thing is flawed. I think we do do the right thing. We get sidetracked and we do many wrong things. We have many idiots, maybe tyrants, autocrats, bad people, not to name any of them. We have that. But we do in the end collaborate pretty well. Like after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we collaborated to create a nuclear pact of non proliferation that is holding up until today and hopefully will. And we did the same for genetic engineering. So we have reasons to believe that we can collaborate. Read this book by Rutger Bregman. It's called Survival of the Friendliest. So I believe that we are capable of reformation. And also the other thing that's happening right now, we're seeing a lot of pain because of COVID because of this stupid war and the change in the global structure that's currently happening. And that's going to continue for the next 10 years. And a lot of pain will also bring discovery of new things. And you know, people change by pain and love. I keep saying. I think we're going to see reformation because people are ready to reform. If you talk to a 30 year old kid today, they have a different objective of what they want from the future. They don't want what I wanted, you know, being a baby boomer, which is profit and growth and a great job and more money, more houses, more cars. I don't have a car anymore. But anyway, that's kind of the agenda. People are different today and I have great hopes also because the women are coming. I mean, we're literally going to a future where in many countries women are now in charge. I have a great agenda on this. The future is female, I believe. And a lot of people are laughing about this, just like the vegetarian versions. But I can feel that coming. So I'm really quite confident that we're going to see this unforming as a sort of reformation culture and a global mindset. Right. Some people would call that the global consciousness or something like this. So, Lutz Castalieros, thank you. What would be the role of government laws to gain competitive advantage in relation to the green agenda? Well, considering that the switch to green is probably the biggest change in industry for the last hundred years, it's a huge competitive advantage to be involved with that right now. Like Switzerland is with a lot of technologies with where I live, like the US is like China is, of course, and to get ahead of the curve. So now I would say that's probably no longer about this digital transformation. It's becoming digital and green transformation together, moving towards the human transformation. When we talk about genetics and biotechnology, the role of government is clear, is twofold. One is to help science and technology translate into business and into growth, of course, but sustainable growth and to figure out the business model behind how all that could happen. What I call inclusive capitalism, or what Al Gore calls sustainable capitalism, that's the role of government. And the other one is to protect citizens from overbearing things like too much technology, for example. We could say that if we track absolutely everybody all the time, we can save energy and we can make you register with everything and we can make it safer. But there's a balance between Freedom and security. And 100% security will give you no freedom, and vice versa. So we only have to look to Russia and China for that debate, of course. So really important to believe. I think we need to be able to trust our government. And that's one thing we have here in Switzerland. You know, we trust our government. We don't just have one prime minister. We have seven people who are doing this. And in the COVID crisis, you could say, despite everything, people trust their government. And I think this is really important also to grow democracy back into something that we can trust. So the role of government clearly is to regulate things that may be catching up on too far, like social media, and also to incubate and to put money in the right places. And I think what we're going to see in the next couple of years is first now we have a boom, of course, in military spending seen in Germany. I think that will be temporary and I think it will be cheaper to spend money on the military also in the future, given that most of it will be digital and a lot of that money is going to move over, as Germany has shown, again, huge investment into anything green. You know, from pollution, providing prevention to smart cities to decarbonization. This is a huge agenda and all governments are getting on it. I mean, again, when I was in Dubai, this is topic number one. So Bertolt Brecht once said, dinner first, then morals. So you could say, yeah, okay, dinner first, eating first, business first, and then green, that's over. Now green is the business, and we have to really imagine that this is going to be a major driver of everything, especially when we're coming out of the COVID period and out of the fear factor that we're currently experiencing with Russia. And on that note, I do want to send my greetings to everybody in the Ukraine to stand up and to continue the fight. I think it's going to be really important that we stand together on all of those issues without wanting to get too political on this. And before I forget it, please do take a look at my book here. The Good Future. Can you see it? Yeah, it's there somewhere in the corner. And not the Good Future. Sorry, Technology versus Humanity. The Good Future is my next book, what I'm talking about here. So Technology versus Humanity is available on Kindle and also, of course, as a podcast version, audio version. So, Stefan Schneider Gert, if you combine this topic with the last topic, is it more difficult for democracies to green the business than for autocracies like China? I don't think so. I think the process of finding an opinion that we all can sign onto is harder in democracies, but nothing easy is worth doing. And I wouldn't say by a stretch that if we can have a benevolent tyrant, like some countries have a benevolent tyrant, would that be better? Well, it may be quicker for some things, but in the end, we're going to need to get on the same page. And I think a democracy has a slower process in many ways, but trading that for speed, that would have to be really a totally benevolent tyrant that everybody would trust. That would be a saint, basically. And I haven't really seen that in history. I think that Europe is on the right path here. Europe is on the path of creating a democracy. The United States of Europe that we're seeing, that will include Switzerland in one way or the other, I'm sure. And I think democracy is the ticket. To me, democracy is kind of synonymous with the good future. Future. It's laborious, it's tough sometimes, but this is the best thing that we know, I think, to tackle those issues. And by the way, lots of people are already anticipating that within 20 years we're moving towards a sort of global government scenario because of the pressing issues like energy fusion. Energy won't happen without a global collaboration. Clearly the switch to green won't happen without that. So basically, global government and ultimately sort of a global consciousness that's unfolding everywhere now in this understanding of how we can work together. And again, you can see my argument for democracy also being that it's quite clear right now we're seeing that even the most powerful, well, thinking of themselves as powerful, autocrat like Putin cannot just stand by themselves and do whatever they want because the whole world is to be considered. And that's a good position to be in, even though we're fighting with that realization right now. But the world has grown together, it's become globalized. And these agendas are food and health care and safety and technology and all of those things that we have to work on together. So to me, that all hangs together. I think democracies around the world are well advised to spend serious amount of money and research and resources on the green economy, because that is going to be the next Silicon Valley on a global level, not just based on technology. Thanks for the question, Stefan. Do we have more questions? We have more questions. Keep them coming in. We have a good flow of questions today and otherwise we're going to bring in a few other things. Let me see, do we have anything here on Mentimeter? Or on Twitter. Anything on Twitter? No, doesn't look like it. Let me just see if I can find a comment here. Okay, so in the next couple shows that we're doing here, we're going to tackle a few other issues. One of them will be, I'll let you vote on this if you want to. One of them will be the discussion about the nature deficit disorder. That's a really great debate. That's basically saying, okay, do we need to be closer to nature to actually be more happy? There's been a great book on this lately and a great debate. I think that's a really juicy topic. And the other one is the great resignation, the fact that people are allegedly quitting because they have enough. And I think it's a great reorganization. People more for purpose, more for understanding, more for connecting with others. And the whole trouble in the last two years is bringing this out. So I want to finalize by saying a really important statement for me is that the future is better than we think and the green future is within reach. And it's something that we could totally do. And the green future will bring the good future as part of the same ticket. And I really enjoy being here with you and discussing these questions and putting on this live stream. I want to thank my team, Marcia and Stephanie and Sylvain, for all the great work that we've been doing to make this happen. And now we're going to play a little piece of my film, the Good Future. So stick around and watch that. And let's start with that. And afterward, we're tuning out. See you next time for GERD Talks, number seven. Every two weeks, I'll have a new show for you, audio and video, on what the future holds, what's important today, and how we're going to design what I call the good future. Visit gerdtalks.com for more details, schedules and updates. And I hope to see you on the show.