HBR Presents: FOMO Sapiens with Patrick J. McGinnis

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Hi, I'm Alison Beard, host along with Kurt Nickish of the HBR IdeaCast. Today we've got another show from the new HBR Presents Network for you to listen to. It's called FOMO Sapiens and it's hosted by Patrick McGinnis. Now, you might not know this, but the phrase FOMO, short for fear of missing out, isn't that old. In fact, McGinnis himself coined the term in 2004 in a Harvard Business School magazine. McGinnis frames his podcast around the idea that as humans, we all have FOMO from time to time, but we can manage it. He brings us lessons from great leaders and entrepreneurs who explain how they focus on their goals and forget the rest. Check out this recent episode now and let us know what you think.

HBR.

Presents.

The questions that you have to answer are relatively consistent for any VC investor and they will want to invest in you. If you're able to answer really these three key questions succinctly, which is, I think they all boil down to one why you? So why are you the right team or set of founders to go after this particular large opportunity? Two is why now? So what has changed in the market? Or how has the market evolved so that it's the perfect timing for this particular idea? And then the third is how are you going to be building a category defining company that will be worth multiple billions of dollars?

That's Shanlin Ma. She's the CEO of Zola, the red hot e commerce startup, and she's joined by Anu Dougal, a venture capitalist who just happens to be one of her investors. My name is Patrick McGinnis and I'm the guy who invented the term FOMO that's short for fear of missing out. Today, FOMO is an epidemic and it's changing us so much that it sort of feels like we're evolving into a new species. But FOMO doesn't have to take over your life. You can find the power to choose what you actually want and the courage to miss out on the rest. I'll show you how right here on FOMO Sapiens. Fomo, fomo. Welcome to FOMO Sapiens, the show where I interview people who are changing the world and ask them how they choose from among the many opportunities and options in their busy lives. The world of venture capital is all about the two FOMO or Fear of Missing out and fobo, which stands for Fear of a Better Option in that way. I like to think of it as the ultimate game of foes. See what I did there? And so I want to take you back to New Year's Eve. I found myself at a party in Brooklyn talking to two women, Shanlin Ma and Anu Dougal, who had raised well over $100 million in the course of 20. ANU had raised a new venture capital fund, while Shan, on the other hand, had just secured additional funding for her startup. As I was talking to them and I was sort of thinking, I think drinks should be on YouTube tonight, I also came to realize that if anybody knows how to play the game of foes, it is definitely them. So right then and there, I asked them to come on the show and they kindly said yes. My guests today are Shanlin Ma and Anuzougal. Shan Lin is the CEO and founder of Zola, an online wedding registry that is one of the fastest growing e commerce companies in the U.S. the company has raised $140 million and was named one of the next wave of Unicorns by the New York Times. Prior to Zola, she held product management roles at Chloe and Isabel Gilt Group and Yahoo. She's a graduate of the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia, and the Stanford Graduate School of Business. Anu Dougal is the founding partner of Female Founders Fund, or F cubed, an early stage fund investing in technology companies started by women that manages over $30 million. At F Cubed, she has invested in some of the fastest growing female led startups nationwide, including Eloquy Zola Primary and Thrive Global. She's a graduate of Vassar and London Business School. Welcome to FOMO Sapiens. Shanlin Ma and Anu Dougal, thanks for having us. All right, so I want to start the show with the same question I ask all my guests. Everybody feels a little FOMO sometimes. What turns you into a FOMO Sapiens?

Well, I think I had a case of very positive FOMO growing up in Australia, which is. It felt like a very remote, isolated place. And I was reading about all the exciting things happening in Silicon Valley. The tech revolution was underway. I was reading about the growth of Yahoo and ebay and Amazon changing the world. And I felt like I was missing out on the changes that were affecting everyone's life. And I really wanted to be a part of it. And that's ultimately what led me to figure out, how do I get to Silicon Valley and how do I be a part of tech.

I love it. Shan, that's a great, that's a great, great answer. And it makes me think that when I was a kid I had Australia based FOMO because we had a, we had a movie called BMX Bikers or bm. We had Nicole Kidman in it and it was all about bmx.

Yes.

And I think I watched that. It was one of the seven movies they had on HBO at the time. And so I probably watched it like 43 times. And I just wanted to go to Australia so badly.

You were going to say that Crocodile Dundee made you want to go to Australia.

No, no, it made me never really want to go to Australia. Actually on that front, it's just a little bogan for my tastes. All right. And Anu, what is your FOMO provoking thought?

Sure. So mine would be sitting in the office on a Saturday morning or afternoon in the height of summer, so call it July, and looking forward to a whole afternoon or a whole day of work and just sitting there at my desk thinking about what everyone else I know is doing, which is probably laying by the beach either, you know, out east or somewhere more exotic, always gives me fomo.

And you know, then you open Instagram and invariably, and maybe it's a picture of me actually, you never know.

And sure enough, there's Patrick on the beach.

So now that we've defined that these prob. These are problems which are very real. The struggle is real. I want to turn to Anu, your trajectory. So we've actually known each other for a long time. I've watched you build female founders Find, which you started back in 2014 to address a market failure, the fact that female led startups were being overlooked by venture capitalists. So tell me about how you made that discovery and what you have been doing to solve that problem ever since.

Sure.

So as you said, I started the fund in 2014 and prior to starting the fund, I had co founded an e commerce company in India. And it was really through that experience that I got to understand both sides of the table. So the founders and the funders, the funders of whom were almost kind of unanimously male and founders who were starting to look a little different than the traditional kind of college dropouts. And so for me, after, you know, after I went through the experience of starting this company, we got acquired and I came back to New York and started doing some angel investing and saw this trend where you were seeing really interesting female founders come out of large tech companies or other industries with great ideas, lots of experience and really struggling to get access to that first round of capital. And obviously if you can't get access to that first round, you are never going to build a large scalable tech business. And so I thought, you know, there's opportunity to capture this white space and focus on it and build a brand that was not just about providing capital, but also creating an ecosystem. Because, you know, there's, there's so many ways in which you can get capital but actually create value above and beyond that, for me as an entrepreneur was way more interesting. And so that was the genesis. You know, it was at a point where female founders, there really weren't that many of them. And so it was very challenging to convince people that this was a real thesis. But you know, fast forward to today and it's exciting to see how things have changed.

And one thing I like about your website, which everybody here should visit, is that you've actually put data behind this situation. And so I remember you came out with the report a couple years ago that showed that I think the number was like 17 or 8% of the founders of companies that raise money in New York City, I believe, venture capital, were female. Which is, which is, you know, by, by no matter how you cut it, it's clearly too low and it's, there's something wrong there. How has that, has that changed ever since you started Female Founders Fund?

Yeah, so I will say at a broad level, you know, we, we are very aware of the fact that, you know, call it less than 2% of venture capital nationwide goes towards women. But at the same time, it's also important to highlight the changes that are being made. And Shannon and I actually were on a panel this morning and we're talking about this. So what we started doing in 2014 was putting together a report that tracked series A rounds. And series A rounds are really where institutional capital first comes in in a company's life cycle. And so we looked at series A rounds across both male and female founders, and in 2013, my friend Shan here was the only female founded company in New York that raised a series A. And sorry, that was 2013. I said, right, yeah, 2013. Fast forward five years to 2018 and there were 18 Series A rounds led by female founders. And so, yes, we can all acknowledge that there's a lot of work that needs to be done, but I think it's also important to recognize that that's a massive leap and those female founded companies will hopefully go on to raise a B and a C and hopefully be the next billion dollar businesses. So, yes, we are definitely seeing change happen.

Wow, that's impressive. And if you think about it, I am quite certain that we haven't done 18 times the venture capital because things have kind of been pretty steady. So that is a, that's a tremendous sea change. So I want to, I want to shift gears here and talk to that entrepreneur, that intrepid entrepreneur who in 2013 raised that round. So, Shan, you, you are the CEO of a company that. And I think when we first met, we met a couple years ago now and I had just used Zola and I was on my way to a wedding and my friend had registered and I thought to myself, like, oh my God, another writing registry company. This is going to be really painful. But I logged in and I think it was like four clicks later, the gift was gone. I had sent it off to them, Everything was taken care of. And I remember thinking, wow, this is a very well designed product. And as I learned more about you, I realized that you come from the product side of things. So you have infused the company with the product minded, a customer minded approach to things. But for the maybe the person who has used Zola once or twice or maybe hasn't used it before and doesn't yet know all about the company. What is Zola? What has been your trajectory and where are you taking the company?

Sure. Zola is today the fastest growing wedding company in the country. We started the company with the idea that we could serve the newly engaged couple from the day they get engaged, through their entire wedding planning journey and into their first years of newlywed life. And if you think about it, the couples getting married today, they are the millennial generation. They're unlike any other generation in that they're getting married older, they live together before they get married. For the most part, they prioritize different things to previous generations. And in every other part of their life, they expect great mobile apps or products that just make life easier. And in 2013, my co founder, Nobu and I, we had worked together for years building great product experiences in e commerce, primarily at this company that was in New York called Gilt Group, which was one of the pioneers of making shopping fun and fast and easy. And we felt like we were able to create products there that customers really loved because they told us again and again how much they loved it. And so we thought, what are the things that our friends use that we think could be much better? And 2013 happened to be the year that all my friends got engaged at the same time. And I was buying a Lot of presents from a lot of very painful, antiquated e commerce sites. Funny story, I asked one of my close friends when I was buying from her registry, I could only afford a spoon, and it was $150, and I was so annoyed. And her registry didn't even work on a mobile phone. I couldn't. I had to go to a desktop to buy it. And so I complained to her, I'm like, dude, what is happening with your registry? And she said, oh, it's just so painful to set it up. I asked my mother to do it because I couldn't handle it. And I have no idea what's on there. And it made us think there has to be a better way. So we set out to create, to really reinvent the wedding registry and let couples register for things they really want, from products to experiences to cash in a way that's fully personalized and that the couple has full control over when and where they receive their gifts. And now, over time, as we've grown really quickly in registry, we've had our couples lead us into more and more of their wedding planning journey. And that has led us to launch more and more wedding planning products to help couples plan that single day in a much beautiful, easier way.

It's impressive. The growth of this company has been extraordinary. And Anu, you are an investor in Zola, so that's why she's everybody. She's smiling very big right now because this is a very exciting business and I'm frowning because I'm not an investor. But I want to know, how did you guys. So how did this funding relationship take place? It sounds weird because finding relationship sounds very informal. You guys are also good friends, but you have a business relationship that's really meaningful. How did you meet in the first place? How did this whole thing happen?

I actually have a very funny story related to how we first partnered with Female Founders Fund. So Anu started Female founders fund in 2014, which was a year after we had started Zola. And she reached out to us, to Nobu and myself to meet. Very early on, we met, we caught up. We weren't raising at the time, so we said, okay, great to meet you. And what really stood out about Anu was that she was incredibly persistent at wanting expressing her interest and desire to be a part of Zola. So the funny story is that I remember one time, I think as we were nearing our next round of funding, Anu texted me, I don't even know if you know this story. Oh, man.

Breaking news.

Anu Texted me and said, hi, Shan, it's Anew. When can we catch up? And I have another friend named Anu, so I just assumed it was my other friend. And I replied because I was busy with work. I was like, sorry, it's crazy time right now. Maybe in a few months. And this new fund texted back. I was like, yes, I understand you're busy, but let's catch up. I would love to talk about investing in Zola. Then I was like, ah, not my friend Anew investor Anu. I think what was funny about that was it just made me realize that she would really go above and beyond to be a part of our company. And if she was so relentless in pursuing and having that much conviction in Zola and having excitement about our vision, that she would be relentless in supporting us and doing whatever it takes to make the company successful. And that was ultimately what made us really excited to have female founders funding invest in the next round of funding that we did and since then has been really equally relentless in supporting us as we scale the company.

All right, I want a hot take from you, Anu, on this. On this breaking news that is hilarious.

Because I have no recollection and I probably didn't even know about this, but it does sound familiar in the relentlessness of trying to convince you. My first memory is actually sitting with you and Nobu at Soho House. And I remember distinctly sitting there and having this conversation because the company that I co founded in India was guilt for Indian products. And I, for a period of time, actually ran our wedding vertical and so was incredibly passionate about the space. And when I learned more about Zola, I was just, you know, on a mission to make this happen. So it took a little while, but, yeah, here we are today.

I want to ask you about that because there is a probably, if somebody's never been through this process and they're just an observer, there probably is this feeling that the power dynamic Is like the VCs sit in their fancy offices and the startups come and like, beg for money. But it's not that way. It can be the other way around where you are, first of all, anybody who's doing their homework as a VC is out there trying to find, find the next hot company. But also, once a company gets hot, you might have to fight your way in and claw your way into the deal. So, like, is that, I guess when you think about that, how much you look at your portfolio of investments and you have some very hot companies in there, how much of the time is it that they reached out to you versus you kind of tracking them and texting them and, you know, doing what you do.

I will say that's the fun part for me is, you know, trying to, trying to convince essentially a founder that they're, that we've developed something really valuable from a brand perspective and that, you know, working with us makes sense. When I look at our current portfolio, our fund to portfolio, I would say the companies fall into two buckets. One is to your point, companies that are, you know, known in the market and from day one had attracted great investors. The other actually fall into another category which I think is also equally interesting, where, you know, the founders, for whatever reason, you know, we're pitching a product maybe that other mostly male VCs didn't necessarily recognize as being interesting. And so I think that's where we really had an opportunity as female investors to identify industries or markets that hadn't really been tapped. We, you know, were led the seed round in a company called costar, which is in the astrology space. And both my partner and I, Su Tian, have been tracking astrology for a while and excited about it. And so when we met the founder, we immediately were like, you know, you've.

Built a great product.

There's really interesting early traction. Let's see if we can make this work. And so, so it's been interesting to kind of.

Did you chart out to see whether or not it was an auspicious investment to make?

I'm serious.

It was.

No, because I would do that.

Yeah, I mean, you know, there, there are different ways you can use costar. I used it more for my, you know, what my day looked like on that day versus the funds day. But, but yeah, no, I think very much to your earlier question. I think a lot of it is about, you know, kind of the, the, the companies that people aren't attracted to, which end up I think then going on to be really interesting over time.

So it's very interesting because I think about another company in your portfolio, which is a company called Eloquii, which is a business that actually was abandoned by its corporate owner. It was part of limited brands. They got out of the space, it's plus size, women, fashion. And they just, for some reason or another, it wasn't working for them, spun it out. And some investors might have said, well, it didn't work the first time, why would it work the, the second time? You got in early, the very talented CEO Mariah Chase. And the company was recently acquired by Walmart. And so that is a Great example of, you know, when you have a different perspective on the market, when you're not falling into the trap of FOMO and just running after the same deals as everybody else and trying to be in, you know, and this is something that we see a lot in Silicon Valley that is not just, that's not just a great business, but it's a great way to set yourself up apart and find really interesting companies. Okay, so I want to turn back to Shan for a moment because you have raised a boatload of money. I mean, you said $140 million. That's no joke. That's. That's a lot of work. Not only is that a lot of work, but then you have to figure out what to do with it. All right? And that requires you to manage investors. And how many series have you done at this point?

Our most recent round was our Series D round.

Okay, so you've been through it, you know, a bunch of times. So here's the thing. My experience as a venture capitalist and looking at investing in different companies is that VCs love to have their options open, right? They look at a lot of companies and getting them to actually, especially in the early rounds, once you sort of prove it, it's a little bit of a different story. But in those early days when you're like, you got a PowerPoint and maybe a basic product and you've got your CV and you've got your history, but you don't have traction per se, getting people to go from, you know, just kind of having a conversation, but actually committing to you is the hardest thing in the world. I see this over and over again. And the one thing I always tell VC people looking for VC capital is just try to create some fomo, get people excited about what you're doing. So when you were sort of in those early days of fundraising for Zola, like, how did you create the FOMO that got people actually to get off the fence and stop equivocating and just say, like, you, yes, we're going to be your investors. We're in on this.

Having now done five rounds of funding, what I recommend to founders is to remember that this is a two way relationship and a two way deal. And it's not just about you finding money from anywhere because there's plenty of sources of capital, but rather, you want to find it from the right partner. And so, yes, you could potentially try to create fomo, but ultimately the most important job that you have is finding the right partner for your company at that stage in your company's lifecycle. And so for any process, whether it's early stage, mid stage or growth stage, the questions that you have to answer are relatively consistent for any VC investor and they will want to invest in you. If you're able to answer really these three key questions succinctly, which is, I think they all boil down to one, why you? So why are you the right team or set of founders to go after this particular large opportunity? Two is why now? So what has changed in the market? Or how has the market evolved so that it's the perfect timing for this particular idea? And then the third is how are you going to be building a category defining company that will be worth multiple billions of dollars? And if you can answer those questions, and many times those questions are asked in 100 different ways, but if you can answer those three key things, I think you'll have a lot of investors wanting to invest.

I love that you brought that up because one thing that I always tell entrepreneurs is sort of convince me why your success is inevitable. And I don't mean that success is obviously these are early stage ventures, the chances of failure are pretty high. But if you tell me that you're building a company in the media space because you love to watch movies, that is not good enough. You need to have experience, you need to have the people around you that are like, and I think about your background with Zola. So you, you had worked at Gilt, you had worked in product roles, you had seen the problem as a user and that's great. But if you had just seen the problem as a user and it never worked in a tech company before, I mean, there's a, there's an outside chance you'd be successful, but you came at it with all the tools you needed and you had a co founder, which is also really important in order to actually make a run at this. And so you were credible coming in. And I think a lot of people. And also you had worked. I mean you, you had, it wasn't that you were, you know, right. Fresh out of undergraduate. And a lot of people think that nowadays that all entrepreneurs are 22 years old. That's not true, right?

Absolutely. I think actually the average age that I read in some study is that, you know, the average age of a founder these days is between 38 to 40. So certainly reality is different to perception that we might see in the media or in the movies. But the, the other thing that was particularly important in the early days of fundraising around this question of why you or why me? Was that I had worked with a lot of smart people who saw the work that I had done and then were able to vouch for me in back channel reference checks or in saying, yeah, I know a lot of smart people who want to work with her again. And that was one of the reasons that investors was, we're thinking, you know, if smart people would want to work with her again, then that gives her a much better shot of building a. A great team and company and business.

And I want to continue. Just one more question for you, which is that I know I've heard in previous interviews you have, that I believe 50% or more than 50% of your management team is women.

Yes.

And also you have diversity of all types, from religion to sexual orientation to race to, I guess, national origin. You're from Australia.

Yes.

How do you. I mean, we live in a city that is very diverse, which is New York City. But a lot of times people think of the technology world as being kind of monolithic. How do you, first of all find a diverse team? And how do you, in your culture, especially in a culture, sometimes people say, we hire for fit. Fit kind of is code word for people who look like me. So how do you create a culture in which people kind of just automatically get that Diversity is something that makes the team better and actually work that into their hiring habits. Habits.

So diversity is something that we talk about regularly within the team and within the company as being one of the most important values at Zola. And so we talk about it regularly, whether it be at all team meetings or in different recruiting committees where we're interviewing different candidates for certain roles, or when we're asking the team to think about if they know of any candidates for the open roles that they. That we have open. So first and foremost, I think it's even just mentioning that this is very important to us, that we need to work on it as a team. That raises, I think, the awareness in people's minds that we are living it. And then the other thing is thinking about what are the programs that we can participate in. If there's some areas that we. That we don't think we have full diversity. So as one example here, there is a program that we participate in called the Teak Fellowship program. And this every year for a couple of years now, we've had interns from underprivileged backgrounds come in and work at the company for the summer. And they are fantastically smart interns. And I think that gives us a different dimension of diversity that we all appreciate. A better from or having at the company. And that. And then we also talk about, and we say this is one of the reasons that we're doing it, because it brings more diversity, and we know that diverse teams deliver better results as well as a better environment that we all want to work in. I think another example of this that we're participating in for the first time this summer is Unusual Ventures has an unusual intern program where they have interns coming from historically black colleges and universities that they will bring into a number of different tech startups in the engineering team specifically. And so that's something that we're participating in this summer, excited to bring an additional level of diversity to our engineering team.

That's very exciting.

Yeah.

So anyway, now that we've been talking about Zola for a little bit as venture capitalists and, you know, we've all, I think, invested in. I think, Chan, you've also invested in startups as an angel. We've all been down this. You. You've been really active the last couple years. So when you have a company like Azola which has taken off and has done really well and is just, you know, really fired on all cylinders, you must learn things that you take with you as lessons about, you know, when you look in future opportunities. So I'd love to hear what you've learned from Zola and from Shan. And then on the flip side, you don't have to name any names, but maybe in one of your less successful investments in the past or something that was a failure, what. What you learned and how it has served you as an investor going forward.

Sure. Great question. Multifaceted. So. So I'll start with Zola. You know, I think we have done quite a bit of consumer investing. Our portfolio, both in Fund 1 and Fund 2, is roughly 60% consumer and the rest enterprise and marketplace. And when you think about the consumer audience, I think one of the things as investors we love to see from day one is the network effect. And, you know, it's very much a cliched term, but when you think about what makes a business like Zola really interesting when it works for investors, is that for every wedding that you add successfully to Zola, you have an inbuilt audience of, call it 150 to 250 people. You know, for an Indian wedding, probably more like 400 people, but you have all those people who are touching the product and having a beautiful product experience, and there's no better marketing tool than that. And so I think that it's very unusual and Having seen it in Zola, it's something that, you know, we're always trying to find. But anything that enables you to pre sell to your customer base without having to spend money is incredibly valuable. I would say. You know, the second part of your question around startups that haven't done as well, you know, I think a lot of times that happens because you're under capitalized. And we recently had Marc Lore from Walmart now and Jet come in to talk about his company's ramp. And one of the things that he said was that when you think about growing your business, seeing that month over month, quarter over quarter, year over year, growth is incredibly important. And so if you have a product that's working, you need to spend to be able to maintain that growth and to ultimately be able to, to pitch to investors. And so I think that one thing that we've seen on the flip side is companies that don't take that risk and then don't see that growth and then have a hard time raising capital. So that would be the flip side.

Very sensible. And as I listen to this, the thing that kind of as I'm looking around the room at the two of you and you know, we all know each other professionally and socially. What, what? I guess my takeaway from this conversation has been the fact that this is. I talk about playing the game of foes. It is a game in a sense, but if you play the game right, you can play the game over and over, over and over again with the same people. Like, I have no doubt that, you know, whatever your next venture is, Shan, you will partner with Anu and we will all maybe potentially look at opportunities together to make side investors. Who knows what it is. But it is important to remember that this is not one time around the block. In fact, everything that you do is a summation of all of the experiences you had. And if you play right and if you play well and ethically and you know, with a high level of execution, you can. And integrity and integrity, you can continue work with the same people over and over and over again. And with that, I want to come to the final question, which is this is the show about finding the power to choose what you actually want and the courage to miss out on the rest. And you two are doing things that I bet a lot of people who are listening to would love to do. Being an investor, being an entrepreneur. So what advice do you have for our listeners if they're interested in pursuing a path such as yours?

When I was first thinking about starting Zola one of my good friends who had started a successful company and then sold that, told me, whatever you pick, make sure that you are ready to commit at least the next seven to ten years of your life doing nothing but this living, eating, breathing it 24 7. And if you're not, then perhaps think about what is it that you would rather do. And I think it was. It's such great advice because the most valuable resource any of us have is our time. And it really is a 247 job once you are in a startup and founding a startup. And so I always encourage everyone to think about what is the one thing that you would be really excited to think about every day, every morning, through all the ups and downs for at least 10 years of your life. And that's if everything goes well.

It's so true. And you're in year six, right?

Yes. Going into years.

And so now that Zola is having. Zola's everywhere, by the way, if you, if anybody who lives in New York City, go on the subway or if you have Hulu, the ads are on Hulu. Very catchy theme song. Or Zola.com or Zola.com but you see this now and it's everywhere, and you sort of like, oh, this is an overnight success. No, it's not. You've been working at this for six darn years. That is, there are people, like babies that were born that now are on soccer teams in that period of time. So it's no joke. But at the same time, obviously, it's going well. So I'm sure you feel energized, although I'm sure, you know, it's not, it's not easy. You work very hard.

Right, Right.

All right, so, Anu, I'm going to throw you the same question.

Advice, advice for, for people who want to start something. So I think for me, the advice would be really simple, particularly for those people who, you know, have been thinking about doing something for a while. I think you have to start. You know, there's always gonna be an excuse in terms of, oh, you know, if only this happens, if only I got my bonus or I get promoted or maybe my spouse gets a bonus. Like, there's always going to be a reason to delay trying to figure out what you want to do or starting a venture. And I think ultimately the biggest risk you have is that you fail. And if you fail, you know, you have from a career perspective, other options. But I think having the regret of not, not starting something is, is often that regret outweighs the the actual act of, of trying something. So. So my biggest piece of advice is just do it.

Yeah. Maybe even do it as a 10% entrepreneur.

Yes.

That's always a good way to get started if you're afraid. That's how I started. But, but you're right. There is really, as I, as I talk about often, you can get going for a very little money these days. You can start on the side and maybe wrap up full time. Or if you really know what you're doing and you believe in it, you're ready to go, you can just jump right into it. But it is certainly, if you don't even try, the, the saddest thing in the world is to see somebody who clearly wants to be doing something else and spends years thinking about that reality and never makes that jump and then looks back with massive amounts of fomo. And, you know, you just want to. You. You want to explore those things before it's too late to make those changes. I want to end the show by asking you guys where we can find you. I'm sure listeners are intrigued to find out more about Zola and F cubed and about you. So where should they go if they want to find out more about you?

Well, I am on Zola.com but on. Then on the social media networks. I'm also on Twitter and Instagram at Shanlin M. Perfect.

And we're@femalefoundersfund.com and on Instagram anew. Dougal NYC.

Well, thank you very much for coming today. This has been a really exciting conversation. I feel like I learned a lot. I mean, I thought I knew you too well, but now I know that there's a. Another Anu in the equation. And so I want to thank you so much for coming and I want to wish you both the best of luck. And hopefully next year at New Year's, we'll be celebrating another year of accomplishments. So thanks a lot.

Thanks for having us.

Thank you.

Fomo. And now it's time for the FOMO of the show. This is the time where I talk about FOMO and its role in pop culture or tell you about something that's giving me fomo. And today I want to talk about an email that I got out of the blue from Monsignor Frederick Dolan. In his message, he explained how he had used both FOMO and FOMO in his sermons to show that these forces can distract you, you from the truly important things in life, particularly when it comes to spiritual matters. I was super intrigued by his message, so I decided to find out a little bit more about the Monsignor. And thanks to Google I learned that he is a graduate of Harvard Business School and after a career in finance at places like Merrill lynch, he entered the priesthood. Today he is the Vicar of Opus DEI in Canada. And so over the past few months I've gotten to know Father Fred. He's a great person and he's even sent me some podcasts of his FOMO and FOBO related sermons. And I have to tell you, as a product of a Catholic education and a Catholic childhood, I have enjoyed hearing them. And I have to say that my favorite line from all of his sermons has to be this one. And I quote, lord liberate us from fomo. I couldn't say it better myself. So here's to you, Father Fred. Thank you so much for reaching out. If you have an idea for the faux moment of the week, or you have a question, reach out to me at letsconnectricmcginnis.com or send me a tweet. Jmacginnis Also, you can take the official FOMO sapiens diagnostic@patrickmcginnis.com FOMO Quiz and Find out if you're FOMO Sapiens. FOMO Sapiens is part of the HBR Presents Network. The show is produced by AW360 and recorded in New York City. Theme music is by Mike McGinnis. If you like today's show, please be sure to subscribe, rate it and recommend it to your friends. And as always, you can find me at PatrickMcGinnis.com you can also take the official FOMO diagnostic at PatrickMcGinnis.Com FOMO quiz to find out if you're a FOMO Sapiens.