Are You Training or Managing? How to Know What Mode You’re In

Hello, dog peeps. Jack here. Just a quick one before we get into this episode. You may or may not be aware that when I'm not talking dog stuff with Max, I in fact interview people who are incarcerated in prisons across the United States on a show called One Minute Remaining: Stories from the Inmates. And that show has been nominated for an award in America. And I would love your support if you've got 60 seconds to click the link in the show notes of this episode and just vote for my show. That would be amazing if you could. Thank you very much indeed. Oh, and don't forget to verify your email address. Otherwise, the vote does not count. Thank you.

Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as 2 days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com/startnow. That's growtherapy.com/startnow. growtherapy.com/startnow. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

At Edward Jones, we believe rich isn't about having life all figured out. It's opening yourself to all the possibilities. That's why your dedicated financial advisor The advisor provides long-term planning built around you, meeting you where you are and helping you get closer to where you want to be. So no matter where you're starting from, you can move forward with confidence. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich. Edward Jones, member SIPC. A rug shouldn't just fit your room, it should make your home feel finished. Ernesta creates designer-quality rugs custom fit to the exact size of your space. So every room feels beautifully pulled together. Explore Ernesta's range of options, all ready to be custom cut, finished, and delivered to your door in as little as 2 weeks. Start with 5 samples for just $10 and get $50 toward your rug when you order. Visit ernesta.com today. That's E-R-N-E-S-T-A dot com.

It is the Dog People Podcast, a podcast hopefully giving you a no-nonsense approach to dog training so you never— I'm going to have to start that again. It's the Dog People Podcast with your host Jack Lawrence. Secretly, I decided to start this podcast for some free dog training advice. You know, Malinois seem to be like the dog at the moment. Like, I think people see them on Instagram doing these incredible things. Yeah. Go, oh my God, that's awesome. And then they get one like, oh my God, what the fuck? And Max O'Neill.

You would not believe how many people I meet And I go, what made you want to get, say, an Aussie Shepherd? They go, I don't know. I go, had you met one before? They go, no. If you want to ask me how often I walk my own dog a week, it's only twice a week.

It's the Dog People Podcast, the podcast giving you a no-nonsense approach to dog training so you never have to shout, it's okay, he's friendly. My name is Jake Lawrence. I'm not a dog trainer, just a dog training enthusiast. But of course, Max O'Neill from the Down Under Dog Trainer is our resident expert. I had an issue the other day where I had a woman yelling at me. Is it okay? Is friendly come full circle? Yeah, it has. Yeah, I'm sort of feeling I'm finding it more. Never actually ever had it before we started this podcast, and now I seem to be getting a lot. Sometimes I think maybe they listen to the show and they recognize me.

Yeah, that is trolling.

Yeah, yeah. Today, Max, the topic— you told me what we want to talk about and I was like, huh? Which I mostly am. This is whole podcast is you just saying, let's talk about this. And I go, huh?

We want to talk about training versus management today. 'Cause without knowing it, you should always be in one or the other. Training is where you're actively trying to improve on something, and management is where you're trying to prevent from regressing at something. So you always need to be in either training mode or management mode, no matter the issue you're working on. And we'll give you some examples.

And you're gonna tell us when we should know where we should be at the time, whether we should be training or managing.

Exactly. Yeah. So let's just say that you're working on reactivity with your dog. Let's use that as our first example. With a reactive dog, whether reactive to dogs, traffic, people, whatever, you're either always going to be in training or management, or at least you should be. What does training look like? Training looks like having a very set and specific measurable goal. So, hey, when I go out today and work on my dog's, say, traffic reactivity, today I want to be, say, 5 steps closer to the road than I was yesterday. Today I want him to be able to ignore 10 cars before we go on break, whereas last week we only ignored 5 cars and then he needed a break. Something like that. That's training. You're going out with a specific target in mind of I need to accomplish this today. Okay. Then once the training session is over and you head home, we move into management. If you've got a dog who's highly traffic reactive, you get home and your dog successfully ignored 10 cars and you go, wow, they did amazing. Good job, Fred. You then stick them in the front yard and go to work. How many cars are going to go past your dog's front yard that day? 50. So you're going to get 10 reps that are steering you in the right direction throughout the day because of poor management. You're getting 50 reps steering them in the wrong direction, and then people wonder why training is constantly 2 steps forward, 1 step back. And don't get me wrong, training's not a linear journey. It can't always be progression every session. Like, that's just not realistic, especially with animals. But as much as possible, we can minimize big setbacks or slow progress through focusing on management just as much. So in that example, you would go out, do your training, and then proper management would be, well, I don't want for my dog to be exposed to a trigger where they could be set up to perform a rep or, um, rehearse a behavior I don't want them to. So my proper management might be keeping them inside, keeping in the backyard where they can't have these explosions. So then what their day looks like is you had 10 really solid reps in the morning, 0 bad reps throughout the day. Perfect. That's only moving forward. So say if that was like a, a big one I get a lot with is, um, with my reactive dog clients. I'll actually instruct my clients who are working on dog reactive. I'm like, hey, don't do this every day. You and your dog will get burned out. But where a lot of people go wrong is they'll do their reactive training, say Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then Friday, Saturday, Sunday, they just want to have a breather. But then I'll see them the next week and go, hey, how'd you go? Training went amazing. Oh my God, like we improved so much throughout the week. But then we got to the weekend, we went to the dog beach and all these dogs ran up to us and he just went, you know, psycho. And I feel like we've gone backwards. That's poor management because again, you're overexposing your dog. And if you're not actively trying to improve on something, should at least be focusing on not regressing. So on those days you would go, go somewhere quiet.

Yeah, somewhere where you're not going to find that trigger.

Exactly. Yeah, spot on. And that's what management looks like, is like, okay, how can I appropriately manage my dog so I'm not setting them up for failure? I don't necessarily have to set them up for success and we don't have to try and improve, but I don't want to now regress simply because I could have had things better. Same, another example would be, say, resource guarding with a dog is you might do all these sessions and teach them, all right, cool, like You know, we're not going to take things from your bowl and it's all good. Okay, cool. And then poor management would be you have your friends come over for a barbecue, you feed your dog at the same time, one of them rushes up and goes, I'm going to give him a pat on his head while he's eating, and your dog bites. That's poor management. So that's the first thing to understand is you're generally going to be in one or the other. But there's also times to know when training isn't always your best option. So part of my job as a dog trainer is to find what, like, what I'm really looking to do is provide you with the best possible solution for your dog. That works for me, works for you, and works for the dog, works for all 3 parties. And sometimes that means, okay, we've got a lot of training ahead of us to get to where we want to be. But sometimes it's also just a management thing. There's times when I'll say to a client, like, okay, you've told me this issue. Realistically, for us to get to where we want to go, this is what the training journey is going to look like. Whether you see me, whether you see someone else, to get from A to B, this is what it's going to look like. And I love laying that out for clients because sometimes, and you get a pretty good sense of it, you can see when clients go, and I go, you're not going to do that.

Again, this is a lot of fucking work. Exactly.

And that's cool. And we go, okay, that's fine.

Like, I'd rather know now rather than both play this game where we pretend that you're doing it and then you go, I'm doing exactly what you asked, Max, but it's not working.

Yeah. All this shit. Oh yeah, no, we'll be better next week. I'm like, let's just, let's be honest, game paid from square one. Are you going to do this realistically? No. Okay, that's cool. If We don't need to train to try and get rid of this issue. Let's at least manage them so our dog's not put in a situation where that issue can come out. So for example, like I had a dog recently with some human aggression, and again, for us to train that out would have looked like this. And like, I don't feel comfortable for a whole host of reasons. That's cool. What that then means then is when you have friends over, your dog's an outside dog. We're just not going to try and push that anymore. Don't put him in a situation where he could bite someone, where he could do this. Um, and there's just loads of instances. And again, they got the solution they want because ultimately they go, we don't want our dog to bite anyone ever again. Like, cool, well, we can teach him to not bite people when there's people around, or we can just manage him so that he never bites anyone again. Either way, we're getting to the same destination.

Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of What would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as 2 days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com/startnow. That's growtherapy.com/startnow. growtherapy.com/startnow. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

At Edward Jones, we believe rich is about taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your financial advisor personalizes your plan to help you preserve your progress and create something that lasts. Let's find your rich. Edward Jones, member SIPC.

Boom!

No!

Come on, kids, what should we order for dinner?

Pizza!

Thai! Tacos!

Hey boys, let's not get loco. What kind of restaurant sells pizza, Thai, and tacos? I'll never please all my guys. Why can't we have food without the fuss?

With Wonder, you can combine 20 restaurants in one delivery so your family never has to compromise. Use code MEALTIME for 50% off your first Wonder order. Terms apply. See wonder.com/newcustomer.

So sometimes that's where you've got to see where you're at, guys, is kind of look at, do I want to train this out and do I have the time for it? And I do think that most issues can be trained out, but sometimes if, whether short-term or long-term, you can't participate in training for whatever reason, you at least want to be smart with management so that you don't go further back. Because again, if you do want to pick up training, go, oh God, I've really let this go for the last 6 months now, or even further back It's just a bigger, more expensive job. And quite often as well, like with a lot of these issues, especially if it's stressful for your dog, giving them correct management is what they deserve. You know, if you've got a dog who's terrified of, you know, whatever else and you're constantly exposing them to it, that's not real good either. So something you just want to look at. Sometimes training's the best option, sometimes management. But again, if you are working actively training something, whether that's training them to start doing something or to stop doing something, Management in between sessions is absolutely huge.

Patience is a big thing too, because I think people, they want to get to that end goal as quickly as possible.

Yeah.

So they'll— and then we talk about, they'll just do it and do it and do it and do it and do it until they burn themselves out, the dog out. And then they'll go, oh God, and then take a bit of time off. And then in that time off, we're having issues and then we're back to square one again. But if you just take your time slowly, you know, be realistic with yourself. We've spoken about this in the past. Be realistic with yourself. As to what you can manage and what you can achieve. And then, and again, consistency, do it consistently. And it's no different if you're sitting there going, I don't have a dog with any reactivity issues, but it's no different talking about a dog which is terrible at recall. You're not going to train recall for 3 days and then go, sweet, let them off lead for a couple of days where they get the chance to ignore you and then be like, hold on a second, what's going on here? And then go back again to the start and you're in this never-ending cycle.

Exactly. Yeah, just correctly manage in between. You go, all right, you might not feel like doing a recall session today, but if right now your recall sessions, like you calling your dog on a long lead in the backyard and they're moderately successful, why does that make you think that you can then go to the beach and let them off? That's just poor management. So it's just looking at like, where's my dog at? I'll give you a couple of my own really real-world examples, right? So one was, um, we used to live in an apartment and Nelson was raised in an apartment. People go, oh, Rottweiler in an apartment. Yeah, worked well. One of the things that worked well was we taught him to use his speaking buttons to let us know he wanted to go to the toilet. Okay, you go push this button, toilet please. We go, sweet, we'll go down the elevator, take you out the front. How we taught that in terms of training and management, we first had to train him to push the button, but a part of that was heavily reinforcing when he'd go and push that button. We'd give him a lot of reinforcement. So he goes, oh cool, pushing this button is pretty awesome. Then to manage in between sessions, we'd take that button away.

Yeah. So he's not just sitting there hitting it and nothing's coming.

Exactly. If I went to work for the day and left it and he pushed that button 20 times and no reward, I'd get there in the afternoon, you go, I'm not pushing that thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's not— that's an example. Another example is my dog before that, my Weimaraner, like 99% of Weimaraners, had mad separation anxiety. We did all the right stuff, boom, separation anxiety. I did things no differently to Nelson and he just had mad separation anxiety. And there was a point where, because I was so flat chat with the business and with uni and with everything else, is I went, all right, I know how to train this out and we will do it. But right now I don't have the time to really give this the time it deserves. So for those— a few month period there while I was middle of exams where this was in management. So I mean, if I had to go out, I would go and take him somewhere, either to a friend or family member's place to look after him. Because again, if I didn't correctly manage it, this issue would get worse. So when I did have the time to train, I was like, all right, now I've got the time, let's do this. The issue is exactly where I picked up where I left off, rather than going, oh, now this is 50 times worse. So again, training or management. And then like I said, sometimes it's just management. Sometimes you'll see an issue that you just don't think is worth tackling for whatever reason, and that's fine. But as long as you're smart about your management, you're still doing your bit as a good dog owner.

Any questions, as always, the Dog People Podcast on Facebook and Instagram. Get them in there and we will answer them in an upcoming episode. The Dog People Podcast is a Mashed Pumpkin production hosted by Jack Lawrence and Max O'Neill. Edited, produced, and audio production by Jack Lawrence.

At Edward Jones, we believe rich means opening yourself to new possibilities. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are. Helping you move forward with confidence. Let's find your rich. Edward Jones, member SIPC.

Hey, it's your ceiling vent, so I'm dripping. Could be the rain, could be the upstairs bathroom.

Yikes. You could hire the guy your neighbor recommended, but I'm pretty sure that's just his cousin.

Do we know if he's licensed, or does he just own a ladder?

Listen to your home. Go with Thumbtack.

Upload a photo or voice note, and we'll diagnose your project and match you with the right pro for the job.

Thumbtack. We know homes. Hire the right pro today.

There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. Stand still? Not a chance. You're a lifelong learner who's come this far. Now we're here to help you keep going further. Capella University. What can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more.