Bringing Home a Second Dog? Be prepared to be a leader

Hello, dog peeps. Jack here. Just a quick one before we get into this episode. You may or may not be aware that when I'm not talking dog stuff with Max, I in fact interview people who are incarcerated in prisons across the United States on a show called One Minute Remaining Stories from the Inmates. And that show has been nominated for an award in America. And I would love your support if you've got 60 seconds to click the link in the show notes of this episode and just vote for my show. That would be amazing if you could. Thank you very much indeed. Oh, and don't forget to verify your email address. Otherwise, the vote does not count. Thank you.

Why can't we get AI to production? Our competitors are already— How do we keep data secure? AWS AI cuts through the noise with ready-to-use agents and the broadest set of AI tools. Stop overthinking, start building. AWS AI is how.

Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean. Instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as 2 days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com/startnow. That's growtherapy.com/startnow. growtherapy.com/startnow. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

I'll admit it, I'm one of those people who gets excited for football season way before the first kickoff. That's why a trip to Total Wine and More has become part of my game day routine. I can get the cooler ready with my favorite beers and ready-to-drink cocktails. I'm usually picking up enough for everybody, so it's nice knowing I'm scoring the lowest prices. This season, make Total Wine and More part of your game day tradition. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Be 21.

It's the Dog People Podcast with your host, Jack Lawrence.

Secretly, I decided to start this podcast for some free dog training advice. You know, Malinois seem to be like the dog at the moment. Like, I think people see them on Instagram doing these incredible things. Yeah. Go, oh my God, that's fucking awesome. And then I get one like, oh my God, what the fuck? And Max O'Neill.

You would not believe how many people I meet and I go, what made you want to get, say, an Aussie Shepherd? They go, I don't know. I go, had you met one before? They go, no. If you want to ask me how often I walk my own dog a week, it's only twice a week.

It's the Dog People Podcast, the podcast hopefully giving you a no-nonsense approach to dog training so you never have to shout, he's okay, he's friendly. My name is Jack Lawrence, not a dog trainer, just a dog training enthusiast. But of course, Max O'Neill, the Down Under Dog Trainer, of course, the man in the know With what's going on with everything to do with dogs. And of course, Max, in the past we have spoken about second dogs and discussing whether or not a second dog is right for you and if it's right for your current dog. But what we haven't spoken about is the compatibility, making sure that that second dog is compatible with the one you've already got.

And yeah, in last episode we decided, you know, we spoke about deciding whether a second dog is or isn't right for you. So let's say you've made that decision and go, no, you know what? It definitely is. We want a second dog. We're ready for a second dog. This will work. It's from there, we've also got to understand that that new addition will completely change the dynamics of things. And we're going to do a few episodes on this sort of second dog topic because it's something where we see a lot of problems lie. But today we really want to talk about second dog compatibility because now you've made the decision to get a dog. The sort of dog that you get has also got to be compatible with the dog you're getting. And if they're not super compatible, you've got to have a bit of a plan for how that will work. And we'll talk about that. Now, um, and yeah, reason being, I see this every day. I reckon every single day without failure, I'll have some type of in-home behaviour issue that stems from, we got this second dog and now things are just gone haywire. Some of the things we see are some crazy codependency. That first dog might have been raised on its own, and now this second dog has gone, well, I've come into the home and I haven't been raised on my own. I've always had another dog there, so I'm codependent. Maybe these second dogs aren't compatible and they'll have some in-home fighting.

We had that with our— obviously we've spoken about the dog I had to give up. We had in-dog fighting in the house as well.

That's it. And we're going to talk about that today because that compatibility is a huge thing. And you can certainly get 2 dogs that aren't super compatible in some ways. And I'll use my own examples for that. And Jack will use his examples, but we'll at least talk ways to manage that through. So when we talk about compatibility, we talk about 2 dogs that I guess can coexist, whether they're best mates or whether they just coexist in a peaceful setting with very little, uh, you know, management of their relationship between you. For example, some dogs just go together perfectly and you go, I don't really need to police these guys. I can leave them alone together. I can feed them nearby together. They can play and share toys. They can share beds. They're cool with affection. Their energy levels sort of bounce off each other in an appropriate way. They don't get too ramped up. They don't get pissed off with each other. They're They're not opposite ends of some sort of spectrum. They're pretty good. And that's in an ideal world what you'd love to see, but it's actually very rarely the case. Most dogs you'll see, um, you know, unless you get a pair of— we've got 2 labs or 2 this or 2 that— most dogs you see aren't super, super compatible. And that's okay. But then there does need to be a fair bit of management from the owner's end to ensure that that relationship can still be functional. So if you've got 2 really highly compatible dogs, that's fantastic. And sometimes it can be really a tough one because you don't always know whether they're going to be compatible until you meet them. You might decide that, hey, this breed on paper that I'm getting sounds really good, or we've met this dog at the pound and I think he's going to be a good fit. But you're not always going to know until the dog, until the dog gets there and whether that's going to be compatible or not. So if they're not super compatible and you find, hey, these dogs actually aren't getting on great, This dog likes to play this way, but this dog doesn't like that at all. This dog doesn't mind eating with the other dog around, but this dog can't have anyone within eyesight. Or this dog loves cuddling up, that one doesn't want to share its bed, or etc., etc. If that's not the case and you don't have 2 dogs that are super, super compatible, that's okay. It's not an issue, but you need to be prepared to be the leader of that situation and manage that correctly, or things are going to go pretty far south.

Yeah, they'll decide to manage it for themselves.

They'll manage it for you. They'll go, okay, this isn't a fit, something's got to give. And they will fight until that thing gives. All right. I don't want anyone within my eyeline when I eat. So I'm going to absolutely bash you the next time you do that until you learn not to be around me. Hey, I don't like you sitting on my bed. I will let you know about it until you stop doing it. And when we let the dogs sort it out amongst themselves in the old school way, we generally see some pretty horrific injuries, some pretty serious fighting, and it doesn't go as well as people think. People tend to go, we thought we'd let the dogs sort it out and one of our dogs lost an eye.

Yeah. I mean, we're currently looking after my mother-in-law's dog. It's a very small dog and old as well, who absolutely cannot stand Kira whatsoever. She hates Kira. But Kira's a pain in the ass. Kira's a pest. Yeah, she's a serial pest. Kira will tap her on— tap this little dog on the head with her paw and just be annoying. But I have to manage that.

Yeah.

And whereas my mother-in-law, when she's here, she's like, they'll sort it out. I'm like, well, if they do decide to potentially sort it out, I think yours will come off worse.

Yeah.

So I would like that to— I would like to avoid that happening by me sorting it out and saying enough. Yeah, exactly right. And I have to keep Kira in check. It's not the little dog. The little dog just gets the shits and growls. And so I have to separate and say, Kira, enough, on your mat, leave her alone. Yep. Because you have to, you can't, you can't. Yeah. And that's where I get frustrated. I'm just like, you can't just let them sort it out because it will end badly.

No. Letting dogs sort it out amongst themselves only goes well if you've got 2 really well-balanced dogs that are pretty similar in physical size, strength, power, all that sort of stuff. And even then, I'm not a huge fan of it because again, you just don't know.

Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, Or availability, and you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as 2 days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com/startnow. That's growtherapy.com/startnow. growtherapy.com/startnow. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

You're either all in on this model, or maybe you're building with another. You're either speed, or is it security? You're either custom, or are you ready to use? Or you're AWS AI. With hundreds of models, ready-to-use agents, speed and security built in, you don't have to pick a side. You can have them all. How will AI revolutionize your business? AWS AI is how.

I'll admit it, I'm one of those people who gets excited for football season way before the first kickoff. That's why a trip to Total Wine& More has become part of my game day routine. I can get the cooler ready with my favorite beers and ready-to-drink cocktails. I'm usually picking up enough for everybody, so it's nice knowing I'm scoring the lowest prices. This season, make Total Wine& More part of your game day tradition. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Be 21.

When push comes to shove, what's that— what that's going to look like? I don't mind dogs correcting one another. In fact, I think they're often the best teachers for social skills.

Oh, 110%. It's completely— that's completely different to— Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But again, having— having— you could have a balanced dog, and Kira's a great example because let's use when we bring Nelson to the studio versus this other dog you're looking at. Kira by nature is a serial pest. She just wants to nibble, chase, lick, do all this sort of stuff. Now with this other dog you're looking after moment, that's obviously— they're completely incompatible dogs. Whereas Nelson, if Nelson could have Kira's tongue down his throat 24/7, he would. He's like, lick in my mouth, jump at me, nibble my ears. I love it.

Yeah.

So there's examples of like Jack and I'll come to the studio, we'll be in here for 2 hours and we don't worry about Kira and Nelson in the slightest because they're 2 completely compatible dogs versus when we bought Turtle, that greyhound, to the studio, who's a bit older, grumpier. not up for that sort of stuff. That was a relationship just like this one you're looking after now. We manage a bit more, but hey, these 2 dogs aren't super compatible, so rather than let them sort it out, we're just going to manage this situation. And that's absolutely something you really need to do. Like I said, the extreme end of the spectrum we see here on a day-to-day basis— I'm trying to think of the ones that pop to mind. I've definitely seen lots of injuries. In-home fighting has been pretty intense where I've seen some pretty bad injuries. Like I said, I've seen an eye lost, I've seen just tons of bites, holes, scars, this and that. I've seen where one dog then had to go. Hey, we brought this second dog in and either they had to go, or I've seen ones where it's really sad where people have a dog, bring in a second dog, they don't get along, and people go, well, we actually like the second dog more.

Oh, that's awful.

In those situations, I'm like, you honestly, here's your money back. Like, you're not my people. I'm not, I'm not working with you. Yeah. I've seen probably one of the crazier ones where I saw people do a reno that I think was into the the triple figures as— oh, sorry, like 6 figures, like a $100,000 plus reno where they divided their house. They basically turned their big normal house into a duplex and they had like a—

To separate the dogs.

To separate the dogs. They had a completely separate wing. They had one kitchen. They go, oh, we spend like half our life in this side, half of our life in that side. That was utterly insane to me. That's no word of a lie. Like, that was too insane.

Well, you said— I think I've seen that before. I was watching one of these rubbish shitty dog shows and there's a couple that had that same issue. They lived on separate sides of the house. because their dogs didn't get along.

And you know what was crazy? We fixed that in like 2 sessions. Within 2 sessions, those dogs were in the lounge room sleeping, no worries. Because the moment they realized— dog 1 realized that the humans will stop dog 2 from pestering, and dog 2 realized, hey, I can't go and bother dog 1 anymore. They just went, oh, all right, you should have said so. And then like, well, this reno was a bit of a waste of money, wasn't it? Like, yeah, but that was your first go-to.

And that's the whole thing of like, you know, you have to be prepared to be a referee, be in control and say, look, no, this is, you Just, and that's why I say when people are thinking about getting a second dog, please, please think about it carefully. And I say this from experience because I have done it and I did the wrong thing. Not saying you will, but just think about it. And as we've said in the past, test it, trial it first. Because even now I get to the point where I'm like, I could do a second dog. And then I have situations like today again, you know, at the moment where we look after my mother-in-law's dog and I'm like, no, I cannot do this. I cannot do 2.

It's a lot.

You know, as I said to you, when we go out training, when we go out walking enough, I only have time in my day So when I've got the 2, they both have to come with me together. And I cannot, because, because Kira is now what I would classify as well trained. But I can't do our training with the little one with us because the little one isn't trained. And, you know, and it will just be like constantly just running around like a lunatic around my feet while I'm trying to train with Kira. And it just does not work.

Exactly.

And I'm just going, okay, so if I brought a second dog into my world to get it to where I'm at with Kira, it needs intention by itself. But then I can't not then train Kira.

But, and that's, and that's just where I guess as an owner, like they said, that management comes in. And, and I've got a pretty relatable example. So we've got Nelson, who's a, you know, busy, high-drive, working line Rottweiler, and we've got Turtle, who's at the complete opposite end of the age and energy spectrum. If you saw them together, you would go, oh my God, they're best mates, they're so compatible. And they are, but there's also areas where they aren't.

Hmm.

So a couple areas where they aren't is like Nelson loves to play and this and that and lick Turtle's ears and this and that. And we've had to teach him to, hey, you need to back off when she does that because you might want to do this for 30 minutes. Turtle might want to do this for 3 minutes. So you guys aren't compatible in that area, but we will manage this and make sure that that's not a thing. And now because we've managed it so many times, they understand each other. They have a good understanding. From the other end of the spectrum, when we'd go down to the soccer field and run through Nelson's obedience routines and stuff like that and train, Turtle's a dog who loves to come up and lean on you. So If I was doing Nelson's heel and Turtle would come and get in the way, Nelson was getting super frustrated. So we had to teach Turtle, hey, like, when we're doing this, you just need to give us space. And again, if we hadn't managed that, Turtle would have cracked it with Nelson and gone, you need to get your tongue out of my ear and you need to stop sitting on me. I'm going to bite you. And if we'd left it to sort themselves out, Nelson, while he's in drive doing all his work, would have absolutely—

Made a mess of poor old Turtle.

And ripped Turtle's little head off. So You can get incompatible dogs. You just need to manage it correctly. Because like I said, it can be pretty bad when it doesn't go right, but it can also be great when it does. I see loads of homes that are really successful at this, where I'll go to a home where they might have a working line German Shepherd and a 14-year-old Pug, and they're the best of mates because they've each got their boundaries.

Yeah.

And those dogs are completely comfortable. You might see this and that. You don't always need to get 2 dogs that are completely alike. Because quite often that can be its own little form of incompatibility. I remember growing up, we had a chocolate lab and a lab cross retriever, and both of them were such high energy, they'd just bounce off each other and neither of them would settle. So sometimes 2 alike can actually cause its own friction in a way. And same, you might get 2 dogs that are such low energy that because neither of them ever play, you just end up with 2 fat lazy dogs who sleep. And sometimes it can be nice to get dogs that are a bit different, you know. I remember when we were growing up, we had our Newfoundland who was very old and low energy, and then we got our puppy Labrador. And that was a nice mix, is we didn't let the Labrador just jump all over and bully her and just harass her. But because we managed that relationship, is she naturally calmed him down a little and he perked her up a little. So it was a perfect fit. We'd rather have this completely incapacitated dog who just slept all day and this hyperactive chocolate lab. They're met in the middle at a really nice place. So they don't always have to be perfectly alike. They don't always have to be opposites. It's just finding a situation and understanding that every dog will have points that works really well together. They'll also have points that don't work so well. It's just about you as the owner and the parent, whatever you want to call yourself, managing that situation correctly so that things don't come to a really nasty and messy head because they will. Where humans sit down and talk things through, dogs don't have that language. They'll just go, I'm going to fuck you up if you do that again. And that's not really fun.

It's funny you say that about 2 high-energy dogs because I think initially I would have thought if I was getting a second dog, I need to get another high-energy dog to match Kira. But we looked after a golden retriever or a Labrador or whatever it was. I think one of our actually audience's dogs. It was a young dog, very, very excitable, very energetic and blah, blah, blah. And her and Kira were just not a match at all. Kira was getting the shits. I was like, taste of your own medicine, mate. Karma. Yeah, yeah. But she was just like not enjoying it whatsoever. Yeah. Which is interesting because I genuinely would have thought, well, if I was getting a second dog, I need something that's going to match her. Otherwise they'll just, you know, they won't— they'll butt heads. But I think that that's not the case

either. Yeah, exactly. And what we'll do is, um, after— once this episode goes live, we'll drop a photo up on the, um, the Instagram and Facebook pages and in the group so I can share a photo. For a few Christmases back, we looked after like 6 dogs. There was 3 Malinois, 2 Rottweilers, and a blue Staffie.

All at the same time?

All at the same time.

Holy moly.

And I remember When I was sort of, you know, getting all the, okay, yep, we can take this dog. Yep, we have room for that dog. Initially, I was kind of going, on paper, this doesn't work because that dog hates that sort of dog. That dog's completely incompatible with that. That's going to mess with that. But again, with proper management, all 6 dogs were out together all the time and it was fine. But it was that management that repaired those relationships. And I'll give you some examples. So talking earlier about the 2 dogs, so the place we stayed at was our friend's property. They had 2 Malinois. Um, and then when we looked after their property, they're like, hey, like, if you have other dogs you want to bring, like, that's totally fine. We've got acreage, we've got all the space, we've got kennels set up, so it's fine. And that was really cool with everyone, so it worked well. But the thing with the 2 Malinois, again, you'd think getting 2 Malinois would be completely compatible, and on paper they were. They're both high energy. One dog loves to hold the toy and be chased, the other dog loves to do the chasing. Oh my God, match made in heaven. But again, this is a case of where they're almost too similar because the first day we got there They played that game for 6 hours until both of them limped into the kitchen, were like, we didn't know how to stop. And now we kind of fucked ourselves and wore holes in our pads and shit like that. It was just crazy. And then, like I said, there was other all sorts of incompatible things. There was this dog who didn't mind playing, but you're not allowed to touch my ball and all this sort of stuff. But it can be done. You've just got to be very present as an owner. And that if you're prepared to do that and genuinely commit to that, it means you can really get any dog you want and you can make it compatible. But a key part of that compatibility is your own. Is your own input and management and leadership.

Yeah. At the end of the day, you get out what you put in.

Exactly right. Exactly right.

All right. Any questions about that? Jump on the Facebook group and hit us up and we'll get your questions answered. The Dog People Podcast is a Mashed Pumpkin production hosted by Jack Lawrence and Max O'Neill, edited, produced, and audio production. By Jack Lawrence.

You're either all in on this model, or maybe you're building with another. You're either speed, or is it security? Or you're AWS AI. Don't pick a side. Pick them all. AWS AI is how.

That dreadful sound. You know exactly what it means. Dead battery. No second car, no stranger to help. That's where the NOCO Boost GB40 comes in. A portable jump starter that packs 1,000 amps so you can jump start your car yourself. No jumper cables required. It's compact enough for your glove box and doubles as a power bank and flashlight. The end of jumper cables has arrived. Get yours at no.co. Code JUMP10 for 10% off select jump starters.

Confidence. It's listening.

It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York, Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.