First Generation Cross Breeds beware

Hello, dog peeps. Jack here. Just a quick one before we get into this episode. You may or may not be aware that when I'm not talking dog stuff with Max, I in fact interview people who are incarcerated in prisons across the United States on a show called One Minute Remaining: Stories from the Inmates. And that show has been nominated for an award in America. And I would love your support if you've got 60 seconds to click the link in the show notes of this episode and just vote for my show. That would be amazing if you could. Thank you very much indeed. Oh, and don't forget to verify your email address. Otherwise, the vote does not count. Thank you.

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It's the Dog People Podcast with your host Jack Lawrence. Secretly, I decided to start this podcast for some free dog training advice. You know, Malinois seem to be like the dog at the moment. Like, I think people see them on Instagram doing these incredible things. Yeah. Go, oh my God, that's awesome. And then they get one like, oh my God, what the fuck? And Max O'Neill.

You would not believe how many people I meet And I go, what made you want to get, say, an Aussie Shepherd? They go, I don't know. I go, had you met one before? They go, no. If you want to ask me how often I walk my own dog a week, it's only twice a week.

It's the Dog People Podcast, the podcast hopefully giving you a no-nonsense approach to dog training so you never have to shout, it's okay, it's friendly. My name is Jack Lawrence. Max from the Down Under Dog Trainer. Max, we want to stick to our topic of breeding. Of course, we've already spoken about the ethical side of breeding or the mixed breeding stuff. And your thoughts on that. Today we're going to keep that topic going.

Just again, kind of dispelling some myths, bringing some more information forward, and at least helping you guys have a more informed choice or decision-making process when you get to it. So part 2 today, we want to talk about first-generation mixed breeds. So what is a first-generation mixed breed and what do you need to know about it? A first-generation mixed breed is— let's use the Groodle as our example— is where mum or dad was a Poodle and the other parent was a Golden Retriever. And then the first generation mixed breed is that litter who is the first generation of Groodles. Okay. Now, first generation mixed breeds is, look, they're going to happen. If you're starting a stud and that's what you have, that's what you have. But there's a couple of important things to understand because by now, you know, whether people recognise the oodle breeds like your Labradoodle, your Groodle, your Spoodle as a proper breed or not is besides the point. They're around. And when we kind of think of a Groodle in our head, in our mind's eye, we kind of think of a particular dog, right? We know what a Groodle looks like because most of the ones we see are a 5th, 6th, 7th, maybe even a 10th or 20th generation of Groodle because they've been around by a time. And although that, you know, the ANKC, you know, the Kennel Club won't recognise Groodles as a step breed, they have their own breed standard. We know roughly how big a Groodle should be. what their coat and colouring should look like, what their temperament should be like, etc. Right. But with a first-generation mixed breed is, let's just say you have 10 dogs, a third of the litter will meet that standard and be what a Groodle should be. A third of the litter is mostly going to be Golden Retriever, and a third of the litter is mostly just going to be Poodle. So, for example, I've gone to some houses and on our booking software and our platform, it says, you know, what the dog is, how old, all this stuff. So, I'll check the case notes, be like, cool, I'm here to see a 2-year-old Groodle. I'll get to the house and a golden retriever will greet me at the front door. Like, oh, hey guys, like, who's this dog? Where's the groodle? Oh, that's him. I'm like, you're kidding, that's a groodle? I'm like, that just looks like a golden retriever and it's maybe got a tiny little curl on top of its head. Like, yeah, they're advertising, you know, groodles, and obviously when you're puppies you can't tell, but it's just grown up to a golden retriever. It's just a golden retriever. Golden retriever with like a fucking noodle on its head. And they're like, we're a bit disappointed because he's lovely, but he's, you know, got the laziness of a golden retriever. He's not as and about like the poodle, and we're really hoping he'd be hypoallergenic, and he's not remotely hypoallergenic. And that's because it's a first-generation mixed breed. You're also going to have another family from the same litter who goes, oh, we really wanted this Groodle, and we're hoping it would be about 30 kilos. He's ended up about 40 because he's closer to a Golden Retriever size, and he's got this wavy coat, and it's, you know, we're hoping that, that, and all this stuff. And he's a bit lazy. We're hoping a bit more of this. There's going to be You know, all this. You're then going to have another person who's going, well, ours is way more poodle-y. We asked for a Groodle. We've basically got this really tall, skinny dog who's just a poodle. And it just, you know, you wouldn't even know it's got Golden Retriever in there. And then you'll have a few families that go, yeah, we got exactly what we wanted, the perfect amalgamation. But that's what— that's the risk of mixed breeds. Sorry, first-generation mixed breeds is you don't know what you're going to get. It's a real lottery. If you get 2 Groodles who are, say, 5th or 6th generation who have got it like distilled down to being what we all know a Groodle to be. Their puppies will all come out like that. But yeah, it's— look, some people don't care. They go, I don't care, I just want a dog. If that's the case, like, go for it. But if you've got a particular thing in mind and you're buying one of these widely recognised mixed breeds now, like a Groodle, Poodle, Spoodle, whatever, Cavoodle, just make sure you're not getting them from a first-generation mixed breed if you really care about the appearance and the temperament and the build of the dog. Because when you're getting these dogs that are pretty similar, But also pretty different in terms of temperament, coat, and size, is this can be a bit of a problem because again, you might get something that's not that perfect mix and it's actually quite different.

And I suppose it would, it's pretty easy to work that out. 'Cause I mean, it goes back to our episode when we, you know, how to choose a breeder and what you should be doing. And one of the steps was to go and meet mum and dad.

Yeah, exactly right. And if you get there and mum's this and dad's that, Again, if you don't really care about what you're getting, that's all fine. But if you've got something in mind, just go, nah. And if you message a breeder and go, hey, like, what generation are these mixed breeds? A good breeder will go, oh, they're this. Mum's this, this is that, so the puppies are this. If they go, what does that mean? Or what's the first gen? Just run. Red flag. They don't know what they're doing. And that kind of tells you everything you need to know.

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So is there any other than obviously looks-wise and that sort of stuff, is there any other negatives to a first generation? Well, yeah, behavior as well. Like obviously we know

what a group Poodles should be. They're a bit silly, bit bouncy, fair bit of energy, etc. Pretty social. But if you get a standard poodle and a golden retriever, and as you'd know from being in Ultimate Obedience, there's a standard poodle in there. Wish. Shout out to Wish. And there was a couple of golden retrievers in there. Shout out to George and Sam.

Very different dogs.

Very different. Like, honestly, whole other person.

Poodle was like on crack.

Poodles are sharp.

Whereas golden retriever was, I mean, his down stay was phenomenal. Because he was asleep half the time.

Unconscious. Yeah. Like, hey, on the criteria, you must remain conscious during the test. And we look at that like, yeah, exactly. One breed's very, very energetic, very sharp. And poodles can be a little bit standoffish and not the most social.

No, I got bitten by a frickin poodle when I was a kid. It almost put me off dogs for life.

Yeah, there you go. And golden retrievers are the complete antithesis of that. They're the most social, chill, whatever dog. And that's what I mean is like temperament-wise, we know what a groodle should be. They're kind of right in the middle. Golden retrievers, some people think they're a little bit too lazy. Some people think poodles are a bit sharp. They kind of meet in the middle. But again, if you're getting a first-generation mixed breed, there's a good chance your dog's going to disappoint you because they're going to be way more or way less than what you're hoping for. And I know that's certainly the case from some of the dogs I've seen over the years where they're like, oh, well, we wanted this and this is what we thought we're going to get. You know, they might show me a picture or, you know, whatever. We saw our friend's dog and we got this, which is not remotely close to that. And that, you know, when we look at first-generation mixed breeds, Is that can get tougher and tougher on you guys, depending on how different or far apart those dogs are. Like I said, Golden Retriever and Poodle, they're both medium to large size gundogs, just differing coats. They're not that different, but they're also pretty different. But when we start to look at things like, you know, Pomskies, okay, couldn't be more polar opposite. One has got the most insatiable drive and need for exercise with a really strong opposition reflex. And a crazy multi-coat. The other's, you know, a quarter of the size and wants to lounge around all day with maybe a 10-minute run. And if you get this Pomsky, you might think it's this little cute Pomeranian with a husky coat, but it could get the, you know, this energy or that energy. And let's just say you're a very active family who want to go for a 10K run per day and a push bike ride and throw the ball in the yard. You might get the Pomeranian who's like, I'm not doing that. Or You might want the toy breed to go, hey, I want this chill little dog, but I just want it to look, you know, cute like a husky. And then next minute this dog's got this, you know, it's ripping up your backyard. It's got the husky howl. It wants to drag you around on the leash and all this stuff. And it's a bit more than you, you know, you bit off a bit more than you could chew. So, the further apart these breeds get, the more— You're pulling them up now.

I'm looking at them now. They are insanely cute. I mean, they are insane.

We're seeing quite a few Pomskies now, and we had one recently in our group classes and They all really differ. Again, you meet some that are just cheeky little poms who don't want to do all that much. And then you get some—

Because, I mean, huskies are notoriously insanely hard to train.

Yeah. Yeah. They're like, they're not super cooperative. Stubborn as. They can be antisocial. Stubborn and just—

The amount of dogs, actually, the amount of times my dogs in the past, like my old dogs and even Kira at one point, I've seen a husky and they'll just, they just charge over and they chest bump and then they're just like, you know, just so I mean, I'm sure there's some nice huskies out there, but I haven't met one.

Yes. Yeah. No, that's—

So a Pomeranian husky sounds like it'll have mad attitude.

And you don't know which way it would go. So it's just something to be careful of, guys. Like I said, it's not because we're these elitist purists. It's just—

No, I mean, look at my dog. She's a bit of everything.

It's just because, like, I'm just giving you firsthand experience from things I see every day. And quite often a lot of the problems people have with their dogs, whether it's with behaviour or health, Physical and mental health is simply because it's a first-generation mixed breed and it just, it's 2 puzzle pieces that haven't quite fit properly yet. And quite often a lot of these owners are pretty disappointed because it's something pretty different to what they're hoping for. So if you are on the market for a dog, you know, a friend is, maybe, you know, share this episode with them or share this episode with your partner and maybe just put this into consideration set when you are shopping around. Because I guarantee you, look, it might be a little bit more expensive to go to someone who's been breeding these mixed breeds for a while, but at least you're going to get what you're hoping for and not get this totally different dog. Because I can say firsthand, I've seen that all the time.

Yeah, obviously we're sitting here obviously saying, you know, not elitist and not all be like, every dog must be purebred, blah, blah, blah. In saying that, if people are listening to this and they're like, we want to buy a dog, we want to, we want to go, we're going to go down the route of breeders. We're not going to go to a shelter, which is fine. We've spoken about that in the past. Would you say to someone, look, think about what you want and maybe it might be worth going down the direction of just a purebred, insert breed here?

It's mixed. Like by now, Groodles, you know, as a working example today, have almost become their own thing where I see some people where I'm like, you know, a poodle probably would be too much. A golden retriever might not be as much. Like, maybe this is it.

Something in the middle. Yeah.

Yeah. But it depends what you want. Like for what? For what we wanted, we definitely wanted, you know, a Rottweiler. For what other people are wanting, whether that's pet or working, sometimes those— the mixed breeds are the best thing. But it's, it's up to you. I mean, like, if you really boil it down, every breed ever is a mixed breed at some point. Like my, my Weimaraner, my last dog, they're a mix of like Great Dane and this old school pointer and everything like that. Yeah. Rottweilers were a mix of like these local German herding dogs and the old school Roman guarding cart-pulling, meat-guarding dogs. Like, every breed ever has a bit of a mix at some stage.

All come from wolves.

Well, and they've all originally came from wolves.

I saw a wolfdog the other day. Have you seen a wolfdog before?

Yeah, in America, they're huge hybrids now.

Holy dooley. These things are massive.

Yeah, huge. Yeah. People that don't know what a wolfdog is. So, people have started domesticating like dire wolves or some shit. Yeah. And then breeding them with like huskies and German shepherds and similar size and coat and look sort of breeds. You know, with these dogs that are like not super trainable and just— but just— The timber dog. Yeah. Yeah.

Look at the size of that thing.

Yeah. I mean, it's a bit of forced perspective there. She's like 6 feet tall.

Oh, that's true. All right. Let me live in my dream world that that woman was about 2 foot tall and the dog was 25 feet. All right. Well, there we go. Any questions, as always, make sure you jump on the Facebook page or the Instagram, search Dog People Podcast, and we'll get them answered.

The Dog People Podcast is a Mashed Pumpkin production hosted by Jack Lawrence and Max O'Neill. Edited, produced, and audio production by Jack Lawrence.

You're either all in on this model, or maybe you're building with another. You're either speed, or is it security? You're either custom, or are you ready to use? Or you're AWS AI. With hundreds of models, ready-to-use agents, speed and security built in, you don't have to pick a side. You can have them all. How will AI revolutionize your business? AWS AI is how.

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