Medium Dog Breeds That May Challenge First-Time Owners: High Drive, High Maintenance

Hello, dog peeps. Jack here. Just a quick one before we get into this episode. You may or may not be aware that when I'm not talking dog stuff with Max, I in fact interview people who are incarcerated in prisons across the United States on a show called One Minute Remaining: Stories from the Inmates. And that show has been nominated for an award in America. And I would love your support if you've got 60 seconds to click the link in the show notes of this episode and just vote for my show. That would be amazing if you could. Thank you very much indeed. Oh, and don't forget to verify your email address. Otherwise, the vote does not count.

Thank you.

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It's the Dog People Podcast with your host Jack Lawrence. Secretly, I decided to start this podcast for some free dog training advice.

You know, Malinois seem to be like the dog at the moment.

Like, I think people See them on Instagram doing these incredible things. Yeah. Go, oh my God, that's awesome! And then I get one like, oh my God, what the fuck? And Max O'Neill.

You would not believe how many people I meet and I go, what made you want to get, say, an Aussie Shepherd?

They go, I don't know.

I'd go, had you met one before? They go, no. If you want to ask me how often I walk my own dog a week, it's only twice a week.

It's the Dog People Podcast, the podcast hopefully giving you a no-nonsense approach to dog training so you never have to shout, it's okay, he's friendly. My name is Jack Lawrence, not a dog trainer, just a dog training enthusiast, but of course, Max O'Neill from the Down Under Dog Trainer here today to give us his not recommendations for new owners when it comes to breeds. This is the medium-sized breeds, dogs that Max doesn't recommend for new dog owners.

Yep, absolutely. And again, we're going to start every episode of this series with the caveat of we don't think anything ill of these breeds. We're not saying they're shit. We're not saying we don't like them. We're not saying anyone should get them or anything like that. I'm just saying, if someone was to come to me and saying, hey, I'm a first-time dog owner, which breeds or which popular breeds would you suggest avoiding because it might be too much to handle first time around? These are some of the breeds I'm going to throw at you. So, let's start number 1. Number 1's a bit of a double up. The English and the American Staffie. Again, great breeds.

Really?

Yeah.

Staffies.

Again, and you must—

I know they're super destructive.

Yeah. Again, like with all of them is they're a dog who can be incredibly dominant towards other dogs, which can be hard to handle. They're a dog— both dogs have got strong opposition reflexes, which means they actually crave that sort of pulling. They've got a high conflict need. So I guess unless you're giving them regular tasks and challenges, they'll go seek out a challenge or a task or conflict in areas we quite often don't like. So it can be crazy destruction around the home with that jaw, or it could be, you know, wanting to punch on with another dog. They've got a super high prey drive. So there's one of the reasons why you do see them getting in trouble. It's always, oh, this Staffie breed dog did this in the local community page. It's because they're a lot for people to handle.

Yeah.

I've met more dogs than I can count. UK, you know, English Staffies and AmStaffs that I absolutely love. Some of the best dogs I've ever met are these dogs, and shout out to them. But again, I so regularly see people who have got completely in over their head. And again, I'm going to say this a lot, but it's a shock to the system. They go, we've never owned a dog before and we're just like in disbelief at what this thing has done to us so far. Or how hard this thing can pull, how high it can jump, how loud it can bark.

I mean, they can chew through walls.

Yeah, yeah. I've seen Staffies chew through door frames, bust through doors. I've seen some that have chewed concrete. They've absolutely fucked up their teeth, but they've just, you know, and done damage to a slab. Like, they're just a lot of dog. And again, if you're an experienced owner and you want a really intense dog that you can channel that into, awesome. You're gonna have so much fun with these breeds. But if you just wanted like a regular pet and not a part-time job, Staffies are probably not it for you. They look awesome. They've got that cool look. I get it. But it's a, they're a lot to handle and they're a very big responsibility because of the way they are built and what they can do and what they were bred for.

I feel like there was a moment in time I remember when everyone wanted a blue Staffie. It was the big thing, get a blue Staffie.

They had their moment in the sun, didn't they?

Yeah, they did. And I haven't sort of seen it because I think now we've got more of these designer dogs like Dachshunds, which we've already spoken about in our small breeds that we don't recommend. So you get all those sort of designery type dogs as opposed to the Staffie. I think the Staffie was kind of like for the true blue Aussie workman, like, oh, I'm gonna go get a Staffie.

Yeah, yeah, exactly right.

So, but, uh, it's interesting that it's gone into the breeds not, not, uh, recommended.

And again, like, if you think of what they're bred for, you know, like both the English and the American variant, you know, they're Staffordshire Bull Terriers. If you think of what the bull part of that is, same with bulldogs, bull terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers is These dogs were bred to go to the meat market, and rather than a bull standing there and just being like, all day, these dogs would be in there with a bull chasing it around. And the reason they did that is because the bull running around them would get all its veins popping, its muscles bursting, and look better, so people would pay a higher price for it. But any animal that's 20 to 30 kilos tops that's designed to take on an animal that's up to 800 to 1,000 kilos and never come off second best, like That's a lot of dog to handle. And that same sort of theme is going to come back later for some of our other dogs in the medium range.

All right. So it's a no-no to the Staffie.

Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as 2 days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com/startnow. That's growtherapy.com/startnow. growtherapy.com/startnow. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

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Next one down is the Belgian Malinois. I should not have to be saying this, but I do because they are popping up in beginning homes all of a sudden. Recently we had a pretty sad story where it just, yeah, it just didn't work out. It was far too much dog for them to handle. So yeah, the Malinois are dogs that are popping up.

Did you get bitten by a Malinois recently?

Yeah.

Is that the scar on your leg?

Yeah, that's a scar on my leg. And that was actually the dog I was referencing. I'll tell you off air. But yeah, Malinois are popping up all of a sudden because they're, you know, you see a lot of dog trainers with them. They're a very popular dog trainer dog. You see them on Instagram, you see them on movies.

I mean, they're incredible animals. Yeah. Like they are just— they are the Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Terminator of the dog world. Yeah. They are just— they leap tall buildings in a single bound.

Yeah.

They, you know, they're used as police dogs for a reason. The army use them for a reason.

And the problem is, is if you Google best guard breeds, they pop up at like number 5 on the list and people go, sweet. But again, these dogs are like—

oh my God, so intelligent.

It's not just what they can do, it is what they need from you. I'll give you a story to illustrate. I'll give you a couple of stories to illustrate just how intense males are. One I heard just yesterday. Um, so girl at our protection sports club, um, the Big Show, the club. When I saw her yesterday, hey, how's your 6-month-old dog doing? It might not even be 6 months. She went, oh yeah, good. She was at the vet yesterday. She was running around in the yard so much that she sliced her leg on like a piece of metal where most dogs would scream and yell. The dog just kept running around and she couldn't sit it still despite it bloody cutting its leg off almost. And then when it went to the vet and it within, as soon as it came out of surgery, it pulled the stitches straight out, jumped a 6-foot fence and went and ran amok. That's a less than 6-month-old dog. The other story I had, so when I was in the UK, I used to look after one, one of my favourite dogs ever, Mari. She was a, she was an old retired working Malinois. So keep in mind, she was probably 8 or 9 at this time. Now, her owner would tell me that if he hadn't given Mari enough that day— and keep in mind, he would take her out for 2 hours a day, he'd go to the park and throw the ball for her for 2 hours a day, he'd get home and set up all sorts of enrichment things for her and do all the stuff— but if at the end of the day she decided that wasn't enough, she would push up the little English sort of style window where they slide upward Up on the first story, she would take her ball, jump out of the window, climb down the roof, jump off the first story two meters, walk about was that what he say half a mile? So eight hundred meters down the road to the park in the middle of the night. She would drop her ball at the top of the stream, wait a minute for it to float down just like she'd do during the day. Then she would run through the shallow stream and go find her ball. And he reckons sometimes he'd hear the window go and hear her go do it, and she'd do that for about two hours, and she'd come home at like. 2, 3 in the morning, bark at the door to be let back in soaking wet, and then she'd go to bed.

It's like the start of a horror movie.

Why would you want that?

I honestly don't believe that anyone needs a Malinois unless you're a dog trainer, a professional, a police officer, in the army. They're not pets. They're just not. There's just no way those dogs are pets. There's no way I would, even my joy and love for dog training, there is not a way in the world I would ever get a Malinois, as much as I'd love to, you know, but I know as soon as I got it, I'd be like, what have I done?

Exactly. And like, I see plenty of people live with their Malinois, but again, these people have like an obsessive— and I mean that in a positive way— an obsessive approach to training. They're people at our club, and that's what they need, morning and night working on niche things. They're pushing that dog to the limit, and then the dog's happy. I also see some people who do all of that, and then the dog's still not livable. That dog's still too much. The dog Lives in a crate, and that's cool as is. But again, they're just— we just need to change the narrative around it. They're not pets. I've seen one person who had, who had a Malinois successfully as a pet, one of my good mates, Cara. And I shit you not, she had to cut back her work hours, and her part-time job was exercising her own dog, just finding new things. If you were like, what does your week look like this week? Monday, I'm doing bite work. Tuesday, I'm doing obedience. Wednesday, I'm doing scent detection. Thursday, I'm doing tracking. Friday I'm doing this, Saturday we're going to the beach for 3 hours, Sunday I'm going for a hike, and then it would repeat. It was insane.

Yeah. I mean, it's just, it is. And there's actually, there's a guy I follow on Instagram who got himself a Malinois and it took up so much of his life that he, he's been smart and he's basically now he makes his business now is his Instagram and making videos with his dog.

Yeah.

Because that's all his life is, is, is just training the dog. So he's basically gone, okay, well, if this is it, then we got to make this a living. So I'm going to start an Instagram page and he's really great. He does some amazing stuff and But again, like, you just look at all the stuff he's doing. He built an assault course in his backyard for his fucking dog.

Exactly. Unless you are planning on doing some sort of dog sport and not just having a crack at it, doing it. And if you're just looking for like a passive guardian breed around the home, this ain't it. Like, this dog will want to go on the front foot, and unless you give it an outlet to bite, it's going to go looking for people to bite. So if you want a dog who just patrols the property and roams, you don't have to do too much with. it ain't a Malinois. Like I said, there's a couple of stories I could give you. I could go on all day about absolutely mental Malinois that I've met. Yeah.

I mean, I think of all the breeds we suggest not to buy, Malinois doesn't only top the medium list, it tops all of the lists. I think it's just, it's just, it's the top of the list of dogs do not buy.

If you're a regular pet dog owner, you do not need one. And then lastly, we're going to cheat on this one a bit. We're going to say herding breeds in general. It's the same if you're a beginner dog owner, I'm kind of lumping in your your Kelpie, your Border Collie, your Cattle Dog, um, Coolies, etc. I kind of let the Aussie Shepherd go because I do see some that just, you know, wouldn't hurt anything. A lot of them have been pretty watered down, but most Kelpies, Collies, Cattle Dogs I see, um, are still pretty close to being the real deal. And again, one of our really common cases that I get called out to multiple times a day is people getting these dogs and just being completely overwhelmed because it's a lot more than they bargained for.

So much work.

Yeah, they're always getting in trouble. You know, they're biting all the guests' ankles, they're rounding up dogs at the park, they're chasing the neighborhood kids, they're running up and down the fence. They've just got endless amounts of energy. They're just, they're just a lot of dog. And again, that's great. There's going to be plenty of active homes who love to channel that, just as you do with Kira. But again, if you guys were to spend a day in Jack's shoes and see how much she does with Kira, you'd probably go, yeah, no, I'm good. Then you've got to think about that.

Even sometimes I think that.

Yeah, exactly. Any day now I'm just going to see Kira.

I mean, I literally, I mean, you know, I spend I mean, I spend more time with Kira than I do my own children. And I legit, I literally do, because I have to give, because their needs are that high. Her needs are that high. You know, I take her out for every day, we go out for a minimum an hour and a half. And that's an hour and a half of not just out walking around the block, that is training. We are doing different drills where she's— I'm getting jumping things. And you have to think of new stuff for them.

You can't just go every day and go, let's do the same shit. And people think, oh no, well, I like to go for a run for a few days a week. I'll take it to the dog park and I'll leave it with a treat puzzle. Like, nah, that ain't it. Like, it is so much more than you think. It is just—

there's a lot to learn. I mean, it's like the other day, Becky, my wife, was like, I'll take Kira out, and she was going for a walk. I was like, okay, but I just knew that I was gonna have to just take her out again anyway because she hates walking. Anyway, so later that afternoon I said, all right, I'm going out. Becky's like, where are you going? I said, I'm gonna take Kira out. She's like, I've already taken her out. I'm like, mate, You, you don't understand.

Yeah.

Like, if I don't take her out now, she's going to do nothing but like just be a pain in the ass for the rest of the night. Just pace around. Frustrating. Yeah. Chasing things, doing all sorts of stuff just to try and get that out of her system.

And they just can't help it. Like, it's—

I mean, I, I mean, I know I joke about sometimes I want to get rid of her, but I do love it and I do enjoy it. And you have to, because if you don't, Then it just, you can't have a dog like that. You know, I've, you know, I've spoken in the past about my issues. I've been in that position where I got a dog that I wasn't ready for. And this time I made a commitment and it's like last time I was not committed. You know, I know that I got a dog and I was not committed to what the dog I got. This time she came into my life and I said, right, if we're keeping her, there's a commitment being made here and we're going to do it properly. And it is a part-time job. It really is.

Yeah, it really is. If you're a dog enthusiast, all the breeds we mentioned today, your Staffies, your Malis, your Herders, are fantastic breeds. If you're a beginner or novice dog owner, or you just go, you know what, I don't want my, my whole identity to become this dog person, don't get one of those breeds because it will force you into that position. They're a lot of work. And again, you'll probably end up just being one of my clients, if I'm really honest. So just go and get one of the breeds we did recommend on our previous medium breed episode, the Whippet, the Aussie Shepherd, or Labrador. And you'll have a much better time. Yeah. You and the dog will be a lot happier.

All right. Any questions on any of those dogs, you know, at all? Give us a, give us a holler at the Facebook page. Just search the Dog People Podcast and we'll get to your questions. The Dog People Podcast is a Mashed Pumpkin production hosted by Jack Lawrence and Max O'Neill.

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