Meet Max 2.0: AI Dog Training, the Good, the Bad and the Risky

Hello, dog peeps. Jack here. Just a quick one before we get into this episode. You may or may not be aware that when I'm not talking dog stuff with Max, I in fact interview people who are incarcerated in prisons across the United States on a show called One Minute Remaining: Stories from the Inmates. And that show has been nominated for an award in America. And I would love your support if you've got 60 seconds to click the link in the show notes of this episode and just vote for my show. That would be amazing if you could. Thank you very much indeed. Oh, and don't forget to verify your email address. Otherwise, the vote does not count.

Thank you.

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It's the Dog People Podcast with your host, Jack Lawrence. Secretly, I decided to start this podcast For some free dog training advice.

You know, Malinois seem to be like the dog at the moment. Like I think people see them on Instagram doing these incredible things. Yeah. Go oh my god, that's awesome!

And then they get one like oh my god, what the fuck I done? And Max O'Neill.

You would not believe how many people I meet and I go what made you want to get say an Aussie Shepherd?

They go I don't know.

I go had you met one before? They go no. If you want to ask me how often I walk my own dog a week, it's only twice a week.

It's the Dog People Podcast.

Welcome to the podcast, hopefully giving you a no-nonsense approach to dog training so you never have to shout, it's okay, it's friendly. My name's Jack Lawrence, not a dog trainer, but that's why we've got Max O'Neill down under, dog trainer. Of course, we're brought to you by the legends at Knowse, a multi-award-winning Australian pet insurance company. You can find out more at knowse.com.au. That's K-N-O-S-E.com.au, issued by Pacific International Insurance. Max, is AI coming for your job is the question. I mean, and I think you potentially already replaced yourself with yourself.

Well, it's quite literally coming for mine.

Yeah.

We launched our own AI this week. Uh, when I say we, it's a— and it's an AI version of my mind. Uh, basically your mind, you speak to it. Yeah, it's, it's crazy. Um, I've uploaded every episode of the podcast, it's consumed all of our reels, read all of our posts.

I've said— It can do all that?

Talking to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just like, it's fully synced up with everything. I, you know, show it books that I've read, we have conversations. I've spent Ages just training it. And, um, it's, it's pretty bang on. So it's quite literally coming from mine. But we wanted to have a little bit of a chat today about, uh, AI and dog training and, and things like that, because it will be coming. Um, we're pretty early adopters. As far as I know, there's only really one other, um, that's doing it, but it's gonna be more widespread. And there's pros to it for sure, which is why we did it. But there's also some cons, and we want to make sure that you guys are aware of. So when it pops up, you know. How to use it correctly rather than overlying it.

And, you know, so I think we could probably look at this from 2 factors because you, what you've done is set up an AI specifically for your knowledge and dog training, all the rest of it. But of course there's also the types of Claude and ChatGPT and all those other ones that people can probably also use.

Yeah.

More generalist ones. Type in a question and it will give you an answer in response to what you're asking about your dog.

Yep.

And as you said, pros and cons to all of that. So, but let's start with what you've set up. And basically just, just tell us what it is and how it works.

And yeah, so it's hosted on a platform called Delphi and you can log on to Delphi and you can speak to AI versions of all sorts of people around the world. You know, politicians use it, celebrities use it, people in all sorts of fields use it, and it's a way of conversing with them. And I'd used one previously speaking to an AI version of someone else and found it pretty helpful. I was like, oh, that's actually a pretty good response. And it helped me work on some things work-wise. And I was like, you know what, this would be a pretty cool and handy addition for our customers. So the reason why we built it was we've got a pretty solid response time to messages between myself and my admin Jordan. We, you know, get to messages pretty quickly, generally within a few hours. But sometimes people need an answer. It might be mid-walk and they need something there. And then they're like, hey, my dog's flipping out. What do I do? Or maybe their puppy's up at 2 AM crying and they go, God, like, I'm not going to get a response to the next day. What should I do? So we built the AI for that exact purpose. It's to, you know, you ask it that, ask the AI first, and it might be able to get you a more immediate answer than we can. And so far it's been really good for that. But there's obvious drawbacks as well. And I guess we'll discuss both today.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I suppose I mean, okay, so let's talk about some of the drawbacks. So obviously we spoke about this off air briefly, and obviously one of the biggest ones is your AI system is purely built for your clients.

Yep.

And also with purely just your opinion and your knowledge.

Yeah, that's it. And while I, you know, think I've got a pretty broad perspective and I'm nice and balanced, I'm still just one person. So there's a limitation to that where it's almost at the other end of the spectrum where you've got your ChatGPTs and Claudes are extremely broad. And the problem with using them for something like dog training is it selects the most popular answer on the internet, not necessarily the most correct one.

Right.

So that's kind of dodgy. And then at the other end of the spectrum, where mine is just one person's perspective on dog training and, you know, it works pretty well, but it's also not for everyone. And that's why, you know, if we use it for it, we just keep it exclusive to our customers because if you come to our business, You, you know, like my approach. My approach works for your dog, and so on and so forth. But it's going to be an interesting one. The way it see, I guess, you know, the way it sort of starts to pop up here and there, and what other people do with it, and also how people choose to use it. So far, you know, it's been good for people because we have had people go, "Oh, this was actually really helpful the other day." I've actually gave it a call because you can call AI me, which is kind of creepy. You can call me mid-walk and get answers, which is really, really helpful. But some sort of other drawbacks which you spoke about off air is, I guess the questions you asked are based on your interpretation of your dog. So you could say, the example you use is, hey, AI Max, my dog's scared of everything. What should I do? And it might give you a really good response in regards, in response to that question. But your question could be completely flawed because that's not what's wrong with your dog. And that's where it gets a little bit sort of finicky and whatnot as well. But we're trying to train it to sort of dig a little deeper and get people to give a bit more background so it can be like, hey, actually it sounds like it's not that, it's actually more that. But just takes— yeah, still training takes lots and lots and lots.

Yeah.

So I mean, I suppose like anything when it comes to this AI stuff, like obviously it's very handy and it can be very useful in some respects, but it has its limitations for now. And I think it— and like with anything, it's like I've used it in the past to help me with like a gym session or like a gym program. Like, okay, I want to do this, this and this. Like, can you help me put together a gym program? And it does. It does it, but it doesn't know me. It doesn't see what I'm doing. It doesn't watch my form. It doesn't make sure I'm doing things correct. It just says, do this. And that's the same with the dog stuff. As you said, the AI is not there seeing your dog. The AI doesn't respond to the dog doing whatever it's doing and seeing how it's acting and all the rest of it, its body language, et cetera, that you do when you do a consult. It is great for, as you said, those little bit of tidbits, helps that might help someone in a sort of situation, like you said, at 2 o'clock in the morning, what am I going to do?

Yeah.

But it should, I don't think it should ever replace a hands-on approach to having someone see your dog and know and give you the correct answer to what's wrong.

Yeah, exactly. That's it. And we're very mindful of telling customers that use it that it's like, hey, this is a handy supplementation. Like if you're ever really, really not sure, like reach out to me directly, but this will give you an immediate response and then, you know, take what it says with a grain of salt. I can log in and see every conversation too. So I kind of go in and just check and make sure it's not giving out any stupid answers. But so far I've been, Really, really impressed with it. Like even this way it organizes information and gives people really good step by step. So that that part's really cool. But it's definitely coming. It's already crazy to think you know that that's possible. That you can call and text AI me, whereas twelve months ago that was just not a thing. Oh mate. And it's wild to think where it will be in a year or two.

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Hello, Kevin. No, no, no, no.

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Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists Across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as 2 days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com/startnow. That's growtherapy.com/startnow. growtherapy.com/startnow. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

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So, so can we give it a try?

Yeah.

Should we speak to you? And so you, you can speak to you and ask you a question and see what you give as a response.

Yeah.

And then I'm going to ask you a question as well. All right.

Have I given you the link?

No, no, no. I also got— I also would like to do a trial as well with asking ChatGPT the same question and see what it says in response.

That's a good one. All right, cool. Well, I've just sent you my link, but yeah, if you pull up chat and I'll pull up mine.

Okay, great.

All right. So, should I call me or text me?

No, call you. I want to hear your voice.

Cool.

All right.

I'm going to put it up next to the mic.

I might be able to replace you with AI you.

Like, Jack, are we recording this week? He's like, nah, yeah, we're good.

We're all good, mate. I've got it sorted.

Yeah.

All right. Ready? I'm going to hit call.

Tell me about your dog and I'll tell you how I can help.

Hey, Max. My dog's reactive. I'm not sure what to do. Can you help?

Yeah, absolutely. I can help with that. Tell me a bit more. What does it look like when your dog reacts? Is it lunging and barking at other dogs or something else?

Yeah, it's lunging and barking at other dogs when they're across the road. He's doing lots of pulling too.

That's a really common picture. Your dog's doing a big display, trying to tell the other dog to stay away. The lunging and pulling, the barking, it's all him saying, don't come near me from a distance. What I'd want to know is, does he settle down once the other dog passes and gets further away, or does he stay wound up?

He stays wound up.

That's the thing. Once he's stuck in that headspace, it's hard for him to come down. So what you've got is a dog that's learned the behaviour works for him. He barks, he lunges, the other dog leaves, and in his mind, he just won. That teaches him to do it again next time. What we need to do is interrupt that cycle before he gets wound up. The key is managing the distance and your own movement. You see another dog coming, you want to turn and move away before he clocks them.

Create space.

Change direction. Make it not a thing. Does that make sense for where you're walking him?

It does make sense, but how much space should I take?

It depends on your dog and the situation, but I'd start with crossing the street or turning around well before he even notices the other dog.

That's that's wild. Did you have to record some of your voice for it to then obviously use it and put it into a response?

Which I'll probably do it again because it sounds a bit like me, but there's also I think it sounds a lot like you. Very strange moments.

Well, yeah, I mean that's that's AI though. I mean I think that's Let's ask ChatGPT the same question. So what did you ask yourself?

Uh, my dog's reactive, what can I do?

Okay. Hey ChatGPT, uh, mate, uh, my dog is reactive, what can I do?

Right, let's get straight into it. Reactivity is normally fear, frustration, or over-arousal, not dominance. First thing, don't force greetings. Don't let random dogs rush up, and don't yank the leash or punish barking. That usually makes it worse.

He sounds like a football hooligan.

It sounds like Adam from South End Dog Training.

Sorry, he might do. Sorry, he might do. He might.

What? Wait, mate, just stop. Stop.

Shh.

Quiet. Anyway, it seemed like it was doing an okay job.

Ask it, should I punish my— is punishment okay to do?

Oh, that is interesting.

That'd be an interesting one.

Hey, ChatGPT, is punishment okay when it comes to a dog? Am I allowed to punish my dog?

Right, straight answer: skip punishment. It suppresses the behavior short term, but adds stress and risk. Yeah, there you go. Management and positive reinforcement instead.

It sounds like a football hooligan, but actually in reality it's Zach George. Zach George. He should should sound like Zach George.

Zach George has commandeered ChatGPT for his own personal gain.

Okay, so fair enough. So it's not it's it's obviously positive only because again that is. online.

The most popular information.

The most popular information is that. And obviously, when you say things like punish my dog to ChatGPT, it just obviously thinks you're meaning I'm going to whack my dog over the head with a stick because it's being naughty. Yeah. So, I mean, these things are all very clever and all very smart and all the rest of it. Your one sounds fantastic. So, but as we said, like, use it in moderation and don't obviously use it as, you know, that this is gospel, what I'm being told here, and this is exactly what I need to do. It's a great thing to get some quick advice when you're in the middle of something. It's all very clever. It's all very fancy. I'm sure it's obviously going to get no doubt better and better as the months— I was going to say years, but I don't think it's going to be months— as the months continue on.

Yeah, quicker and quicker. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, any questions at all, as always, make sure you jump online. We've got the Dog People Podcast Facebook group. You can ask your questions there. And I promise you there will not be an AI answering those questions. It will be a human being, either Max or myself. So get asking your questions.

The Dog People Podcast is a Mashed Pumpkin production hosted by Jack Lawrence and Max O'Neill. Edited, produced, and audio production by Jack Lawrence.

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