Mau Lamas: Leading Propetech Management SaaS in Mexico With Over 75K Users at 25% MoM Growth

This episode is sponsored by Postalytics. If you're doing any type of marketing for your startup today, you're probably missing out on one of the most underrated marketing channels there is to grow your business, direct mail marketing. Finding ways to stand out and get attention for your prospects has never been harder. Business people receive over 120 emails per day. The average Gmail account contains over 8,000 messages. With Postalytics, start standing out by delivering personalized messages directly into the hands of your audience to form a deeper impression, The best part is you can integrate with your CRM to track, trace, and measure the impact of every dollar you spend. So whether you're an agency or startup founder and looking to build out your next direct mail marketing campaign, visit postalytics.com for a free account and start sending direct mail today. If you'd like to sponsor the SaaS District podcast or recommend any guests that you think would be valuable to be on the show, visit horizoncapital.com/saas-podcast today. Thanks again, folks. Hello, hello everyone. This is your host, Akeel Jabbar, and welcome back to another episode of SaaS District. In today's episode, we'll be talking about a leading proptech management SaaS in Mexico with over 75,000 users and now growing at 25% month over month. Today we have our guest Mau Llamas joining us. Mau is the founder and CEO at Kipperfy, a property management app and SaaS solution bringing transparency, security communication, and financial control to the space. He is a Mexican entrepreneur that moved to Mexico City to officially start the company in 2017, where they are now the leading property management solution across Mexico. He is also the creator of the Entrepreneurs Club Ultra Founder, a podcast and networking platform between founders, universities, and companies, as well as the— he created the foundation Mas Vida, which is helping homeless people reintegrate with their communities through physical, emotional, and economical evaluation. So welcome, Mao. Super excited to have you on the SaaS District show today.

Thanks, man. I'm very glad to be here.

So we always like to start off, share just a little bit, you know, summary of your background, past positions, ventures, up until, you know, the funding and running CEO of KipperFi. I think it was in 2014 that you actually first launched, right?

Yes, actually. Well, I started— I'm from Monterrey, Mexico. I always knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur since I was little. I was one of those kids that sold baseball cards and basketball cards and Marvel cards, and I knew I wanted to be in that space. And I went to study industrial engineering in Tec de Monterrey. I started my first startup there. It was a platform that was used to sell your homework to other students. And of course, it didn't work. It was my first try. And then after that, I created another one for financial services with an uncle and my mom that worked in insurance. And it was trial and error until I understood that I needed more experience. And I went on to work at a company, a software company, for 2 and a half years. It's called NASA in Monterrey. And there's where I actually began my career in product development. I started coding. And then after that, I became like a mentor for an app company over there in Monterrey. And I started everything on the legal basis for my future company. It was in 2014. But I didn't have a lot of money, so I started working as a consultant, everything I could do to gather money and funds. And I— it took about a year and a half for the first version to come out. And of course, everything crashed. Nothing was 100%. It was just web in those times. And it was a learning experience. And after that, I got my first clients and my first round of friends, families, and foes. And we started growing the company. I launched the official app on the App Store and Google Play in 2017. And by that, we were starting to get some traction. It was called Loft Admin at that time because we only give service to lofts, just residential. But I had the opportunity to move the office, the main office here to Mexico City. And we started getting a lot of attention internationally. So we changed our model to a SaaS model to international. And we, we, we created a rebrand based on an upkeeper or a gatekeeper, which the name comes from as KeeperFi. So you can, you can be a property management solution for residential or commercial properties.

Love it. KeeperFi makes sense. I didn't even think about that. Now it makes sense. That's cool that the trend of, you know, we have engineers, we actually had another guest Uh, who was also an industrial engineer, I think went to Tec de Monterrey. I think he's now the founder of Mi Refracción here in Guadalajara, and, uh, he was on the podcast, so if you guys want to check that out. But it's cool, it's a trend. I'm also a petroleum engineer. You see that a lot where engineers move to that entrepreneurial route, and I think it's just part of our mindset. Um, just to give people a little bit of background of where are you guys in terms of size today, I don't know if you can share, you know, team size, user growth. We said, you know, 25% month over month. And have you guys raised additional capital, more Money after that, or are you fully bootstrapped after that friends and family round?

We've grown based on our revenue and our income, direct income. We still have friends and family funding when it's needed, when we have a couple of new goals we want to reach, but we started to look at venture capital just before the pandemic, And we're thinking maybe for this year we can we can retake that area. You know, our monthly growth is twenty twenty-five percent, and we have more than seventy-five users thousand users, and we give service around Mexico. We have more than thirty-five cities. We have also international projects, as I said, in Colombia, Costa Rica, Peru, Guatemala, El Salvador. And right now we're just trying to grow, you know. Everything is based on our new launch. We made a launch event for our freemium model. After 3 years, we launched a freemium model so everybody can use the platform. It just depends on if you want to start using an app or a web-based solution. Cool.

And, uh, you know, so you mentioned you started with lofts. What was the opportunity you saw at the time in the market? Like, what was the problem you knew that needed to be solved? And what was that process from starting with working with lofts? You knew that they needed the solution and, you know, now to where it is with Kipperfy.

Yeah, sure. Um, there are 2 main pillars that are, uh, really the problem in property management. One of them is unclear management in Mexico in that time. We see that there's an antiquated management style and process, and this causes inefficient financial control, a loss of resources, among other consequences. And the other pillar is safety and community, where owners and tenants are isolated from the lack of communication and technology, and it becomes a process where you don't have any value, where you don't know what's going on. So So if you, like Steve Jobs used to say, if you implement a computer for the brain, it's like a bicycle for the brain. You can create much more value for everyone around that process. And that's why there are a lot of solutions. There were solutions before we entered with KeeperFi, but they were on the side of internal control. or financial, just strict financial control, nothing on the front side of the users that are living in the property or are renting the property.

Right. Um, and, you know, at the beginning when you first started, what was the mission and kind of vision? Were you looking to say, okay, we want to be a leader in the whole property tech management space, and you wanted to build like an international solution here? Or did you really start at the, at the focus of like a local, you know, the lofts that you're working with there? How did you approach that thinking?

No, no, no, I, I've always been a fan of technology. And I know the career of an entrepreneur in the tech space, and I've always been a fan of Tony Hsieh, those kinds of entrepreneurs that organically became such a force around their community that they became international. So that was the mission all along. And even before we had the app, I knew that we had a, a great solution compared to what was out there. And of course, it takes a lot of years and a lot of hard work and a lot of money, but we started always with the mission to become the leading platform, especially in Mexico and Latin America.

And did you already have a background in real estate, property management, or were you pretty familiar with it before getting into this, or was this something you saw just around you?

Well, actually, in my education in Tec de Monterrey, I was studying industrial engineering, and just before I graduated in 7th semester, I changed my career to architecture. And I also have a diploma in architecture. So my father is an architect, and I started working in PMP, Project Management Professionals, a couple of projects in Montreal. So I knew what was the hardcore work you do in construction. So I knew that there's— it's very, very old school. And just a little bit of technology is a great, great, great difference.

And so speaking about property tech, maybe somebody who wants to get into prop tech, what's important about this industry? Why is it falling behind? And what's your take in the market in terms of growth and opportunities moving forward?

Yeah, sure. Prop tech, there are a couple of tendencies that you can measure in the US, in Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, Argentina. The GDP is based around 5% to 13% to 15%. Mexico, the GDP in real estate is 14%. The US is 13%. And you know that the tendencies that this creates around a global economy, around a developing country, there's always gonna be a vertical new demand in cities where the city doesn't have any more space, so it grows vertically. There's a tendency for rent now. There has been a shift where maybe my parents or your parents, they wanted to buy a house. Nobody wants to buy a house now. It's giving your soul to a bank. You can rent it, you can move, you can work from home, you can travel. That's why Airbnb is such a great solution. And you see the new generations, for example, in Mexico, we have 120 million— Millennials. Habitants here in Mexico, and 95— 94 million of them live in cities. So of them, 84 million have access to internet. And that's, uh, that's a tendency, even if— even though we're a developing country, new generations grow up with a phone, grow up with new processes around technology. So if you want to enter any space, not, not, not proptech, any space in a developing country There's so much opportunity that, for example, here in KeeperFi, every time we grow to a new city, there's a new competitor there. They see our solution, hey, we want to be like you. Go for it, man. There's too much, there's so much available for our country. There doesn't have to be one, there can be thousands. So there's no problem.

And what would you say is the difference you've seen, like in terms of the growth, you know, of the industry, say, in LATAM, or say specifically Mexico versus you know North America or even Europe or other places you guys are.

Well, Mexico is very concentrated in in real estate. It's it's one of the founding the the founding growth powers for our economy. So you can see just residential construction in the main cities around you during Guadalajara and Monterrey, Guadalajara, Ciudad de México, the the three main cities that just keep on growing, and there's a lot of investment. And even though you see As a country, we are a developing country. There's a lot of money and a lot of investment in real estate, and that will continue to grow. I grew up in Monterrey, and when I was little, you could buy a house maybe for 1 or 2 million pesos. Right now, no way. You need at least, at least 7 or 8. So it just It's continuing, continuing. And you see a lot of development, well, especially in Monterrey, where it's really north to the US. There's a lot of tendencies as the city grows, very similar to the US, very similar to Texas.

So obviously, LATAM, Mexico, we understand it's a developing country, a lot more opportunity for bringing nice solutions in. On the other side, what are some constraints you have faced when building a growing SaaS in Mexico? You decided to move to Mexico City, obviously for a reason, but from building it compared to other cities, as a lot of startup founders are now building remote companies, I think maybe it doesn't need to be in those hotspot cities for specifically talent and capital, right? You see that in Silicon Valley, you see that in New York, people are moving to wherever to build their company because it's no longer needed. Do you still agree with that? And what are the constraints you're seeing now?

Yeah, one of the biggest constraints I see with my little experience in venture capital is We don't have that same mentality yet as in Silicon Valley, where you can see the potential in a product, the potential in growth in users, and investors in the US maybe say, this is going to be a goldmine, let's invest right away. And here in Mexico, I have revenue, I have users, and they say, no, how much is your revenue? How much is your— Your costs that you have to be a very profitable company is like what? I'm a startup. I don't have to be profitable right now. I'm profitable, but I don't have to be. And there's there's just that thing of the old school mentality, the old school financial system where it's it's too much it's too much risk for them right now. I think it's gonna evolve, but eventually I I can see. I can see us growing to other countries and probably going to the US to try to meet some of our investors.

So from the investor side, I agree with you, right? I've seen it here in Guadalajara, you know, talking to some family offices or some folks who actually got into tech and they invested. But you're right, they're looking for profitability. They don't understand the mindset of how startups work. And then they'll go back, they'll invest a little, lose some money. Or they don't know how to invest, what to look for in the founder, and then they go back to you know real estate and more traditional. So the way of thinking is a lot more you know old school. Maybe they don't understand it. And so I think it's just an educational thing, which is you know a challenge a little bit with you know older folks.

Yeah, and it's inevitable. It's it depends on the growth, the mentality growth. And as we say here in Mexico, we're about seven years behind the U.S. So just give it a couple of of years, and it will grow into that.

Yeah, generally what you'll see is that kind of recycle as, you know, some of the younger entrepreneurs who exit have some of their capital, and then they'll reinvest into the ecosystem, you know, like yourself trying to develop that in Mexico. Um, what about constraints on talent? So have you seen anything, you know, does being in Mexico City give you any advantage or disadvantage, and would you still, you know, do it again, uh, in terms for hiring teams?

And, you know, uh, I'm a very unusual CEO, I don't hire specifically on talent. I hire on personality and productivity. And a lot of people, a lot of our team is based on people that are trying to be better than their family, are trying to pay their tuition, are trying— I had a scholarship all my life and I know the struggles of not having money And just being trying to grind it out and see looking for opportunities. Even if you don't have the diploma or you don't have the skills right now, you can develop them. So I try to look for that type of people, people that are willing to do anything, anything to grow and and learn and position themselves to to get more value and of course more income here in Mexico. there's an advantage that we have a lot of diversity and you can see people from all over Mexico here trying to better themselves and better their opportunities. So yeah, we continually are looking for talent or people that want to grow. And if we see an opportunity, you can join our team. And we, well, of course we have an internship of 3 months and everything like that to see if it works. But yeah, our team is right now about 20 people and we plan to continue to grow it.

Very cool. And then you also, international solution provider, you decided you could have focused only on Mexico, but you decided to go into other countries who have different regulations, laws, tax rates, etc., different cultures. What have you seen in terms of the process every time you launch into another city or country building that SaaS solution for those Many different markets. What's the scope or what are points that you look at to enter and get into those different countries?

Yeah, well, not only different countries. Here in Mexico, there's a great difference between a provincia, a small city, or a big city. There's a lot of difference between the property manager using the technology. So you see, for example, people that want something specific, like we want to print reports, we want to print financial statements. Like, what printing? You can use it on your app. And they don't understand yet that they don't have to print it out like the old times, you know. And in other countries, for example, in Colombia, they are very used to— well, depending on the city, but in Bogotá, we have a couple of projects there. They're very used to apps, they're very used to technology. Rappi is from Colombia. And you can see that they are very willing to use and adapt a mobile phone. And maybe they want some kind of language that is expressed for their regional users. And that's very easy for us. You can register in Keeperfy and just select your country and you have specific words and specific modules that you can use in your country. But the main, main goal of property management is the same. So you have the same solution. For example, one of our greatest boundaries in other countries are the charging with a credit card and paying your rent through a bank in another country. There's a regulation there, as you said, and you have to pay some taxes, but we solve it as the community grows. So in When we start a new country, it depends on how many users, how many properties, and then I travel there and do everything around it so we can charge and just keep it going.

So does your pricing change depending on every time you move to a different city, or do you have a flat kind of pricing model?

Well, we have a flat rate, $5 for our premium version, $5 per unit. We call it a unit because it can be an office, It can be an apartment, a house, it can be any type of, of, uh, of building.

Got it. In terms of your, your product roadmap, can you speak a little bit, you know, what is, you know, some other product solutions or other integrations that you're looking to implement in the next year? Because I know you mentioned you're looking to raise— you were looking to raise, you know, before, uh, the pandemic. Um, well, what are you kind of, you know, from your perspective, what's on your pitch deck that you're looking to, to raise money Oh yeah, there are a lot of opportunities around our solution.

I went into— when the pandemic started like heavily, when everything started to shut down, I tried to channel myself into the great minds of the last pandemic that they created, like Isaac Newton created the formulas for physics in a pandemic. And it was like, I have all this time, I can get myself into one thing I want to study. And I came up with 7 new revenue streams around KeeperFi. And all of them could be profitable in one time, even analytics around our users, commercial services around our users. And there are a lot of opportunities But everything takes time, everything takes money. So it depends on how much capital we want. I also created a pitch deck and I have more or less about $1.5 million where we would be looking in the next year.

Okay. So that's for KipperFi. I want to talk about more generally, if you were, say, starting over again today and you're looking to get into this real estate space, Maybe in LATAM or not. What are some maybe other opportunities in the real estate industry that you see for a SaaS solution and how SaaS solution that, you know, can also be improved and maybe a founder wants to tackle who's listening in today?

Oh, I think there are a lot. The whole, the whole rent industry around Airbnb, around renting for a for a minimum space or a minimum time or a visit. It's so much opportunity here in Mexico. You can create a service around it very easily, I think. Another one around construction, around proptech, every process, even financial control around the building process, it's very antiquated. It's almost written by hand. And you don't believe it living in 2021 that constructions, like millions of dollars of constructions, they still use these methods. So there's a lot of opportunity around properties, around proptech, and not even in Mexico, all Latin America. For example, I was in Peru and everybody in Peru, said they wanted to come to Mexico. It's like, Mexico is the greatest, is the best technology. I was like, what? We look at the US as being one of the leaders, but everybody down our country wants to come to Mexico. So there's a lot of opportunity, and I think it's only gonna get faster, smaller. There's always gonna be a new solution. That's not gonna stop.

Yeah, I like that. So what you're saying is, you know, people who are managing, project managing, you know, a huge, you know, building, you know, millions of dollars, everything is just kind of, you know, not managed properly, kind of efficiently, all kind of paper.

And there's so much, um, so much money involved that if you don't have the correct process, you can lose or get robbed so much capital.

I can imagine that. Yeah, speaking of LATAM, yeah, I know I've been to— when I went to São Paulo, Brazil, I was actually— that was, I think, a place where I was super impressed. And I would say it's probably similar to kind of, you know, what, you know, you see in probably the US in terms of, you know, startups and, and kind of the energy and the amount of, uh, you know, hustle that you see, that you see in other places. So, uh, you know, there's different places, but, you know, lots of opportunity that I'm excited about to see what happens.

Definitely, definitely.

Yeah. So, um, what I want to learn, right? So you're, you know, SaaS being a tricky industry to market, being in real estate market, what have you done to have managed to grow your market? You mentioned launching into the Play Store. What other growth and marketing strategies have worked for you so far?

Well, there are a lot. Number one, I would think you have to have a great product. For example, the architecture around your product. has to be very, very well constructed. You, you have to focus yourself on the end user, and the end user is, is going to be your best client, your best referral. So one of those is, is that you have to see yourself as the end user. For example, I've said it a lot of times that my mom and her friends are one of my biggest fans because I make them use Keeperfy. And I want to know if, if they were living in a property, they know where to click and where to pay. That, that kind of experience for the user is one of the, the main goals that we, we try to, to maintain here in Keeperfy for our growth. And also our, our service around that. We as a technology company here in Mexico, we are in the business Of evangelizing. We're trying to convince people to do something different with something that I created from my head, and nobody knows what to do. So we're trying to teach and make them learn continuously for— I've been to so many properties, days and nights, sitting beside the property manager To help them clean their financial statements, help them upload their information to keep it fresh. Years, years, years, years. Because this is— the software doesn't do miracles. You have to be the customer service around the software so that your user knows, knows that it's a great solution and that you have their back. Because there's going to be a resistance and there's going to be a a learning curve at the beginning. So you have to be beside them to help them grow, to help them get comfortable with that, with the application. And, and then that's gonna be my, my best, my best salesman ever. She— he's gonna tell everybody about KeeperFi, and then our user base starts to grow. So I think that's, that's one of the, the main reasons why new companies here in Mexico don't succeed. They focus on their day-to-day. They want to spend all their cash on their new offices and great desks and great boards and TVs. And what about the user? What about the user? Go to the user. Don't eat for a couple of days. Be with the user. Help them and spend on only what's necessary. Your cash flow is the oxygen of the company. You can't spend it Just because you say I'm an entrepreneur, I have to get new suits. F the suits, man. Just go with your user, help them, give value, and then, and then, little by little, you'll see a couple of revenue. It starts building, but it takes a lot of work, a lot of patience. I work Sunday to Sunday, and I've been on this for years. But, but I think that's, um, that's one of our biggest, uh, one of our biggest, uh, powers here in, here in Mexico. We, we help our users. And since I have a background in project management, we help our users. I'm not kidding. We even with financial statements, not even in Keeperfy, just the financial statements of their job, like, okay, I'm gonna help you clean them and then We'll upload them to Jabberfy. It's not even my job, but I'll do it with you.

Yeah, yeah, it's funny you mentioned that. So, so it seems like you're focused on 2 things, you know, product-led growth and then referrals, part of that kind of virality and letting people kind of word of mouth drive it. But it's funny, you know, you mentioned those founders here in Mexico. I've seen the exact same thing, right, where, you know, they're, they're in the hottest part of the city, they rent the biggest office, buy all the equipment, desks, newest computers, a huge team, 3 months later, the downsizing, downsizing, downsizing, and then they're out. So it was all about the status and, you know, how they raise money. I'm like, dude, you haven't made any money and you're spending all that. So, and then you wonder why the investors are not, you know, coming back and, you know, investing more. They go back to real estate because like—

Yeah, there's a scary statistic here in Mexico that 7 out of 10 new companies in Mexico don't pass the first year. It's scary. Then Why? Because they all make the same mistakes. They don't focus on one thing, doing one thing only. You don't have to even have an office. I remember our first office, we already had clients before our first office, and our first office was an office in Monterrey. If you've ever been to Monterrey, it's 40 degrees outside. We didn't even have air conditioning. We had a Costco table. Oh my God. that I borrowed from my parents, and the one thing that we did every day was get clients. That's it.

Wow.

Just get clients, get clients, get clients. The rest will come, but first things first. You need to contain the oxygen of the company and then invest and reinvest. By now, of course, we have Google AdWords campaigns and we have a lot of things around, but But it took us years to get to that level.

Yeah, and I was actually on a podcast earlier today and the question was asked, you know, if somebody's looking to raise capital, what advice do you have? I said, use your, use your clients. That's your best source of capital. Like, get that revenue and then worry about, you know, if you really need capital to really fuel it, then you can worry about— they're your best. Your customers will provide your capital, they pay your bills, and they'll give you feedback and teach you on what you need to build. So like, I agree with that.

Bill Gates Says, um, thank your clients that they pay you to better your product.

Exactly. You're getting paid to learn.

Yeah, they're paying you for a, for a novel product that doesn't work.

Exactly.

Cool.

What would you say is like when you went to other countries, US, Peru, Colombia, uh, what, what works there? What's your go-to-market strategy for, you know, is it the same in every region or do you have something different that you have to adjust to?

Well, we have a growth plan starting with the countries that have a more tendency like Mexico in proptech, in property management, and that's especially in Guatemala, Colombia, and Peru. It's very, very aligned to our Mexican philosophy in property management, but as we grow, For example, we got— we have a couple of projects in Spain that haven't yet materialized or haven't yet become formal, but there's somebody over there that's saying, hey, KeeperFi could work here and I want to be your representative. Hey, look for clients and then you give me a call, you know. So we see that this could be a solution for all world. Of course, the US, it's very crowded, they have a lot of capital, and you don't want to go boxing in the ring with Mike Tyson, you know?

Mm-hmm.

You just want to stay away from them, let them keep the US, and there are a lot of countries around it. So I think if we maintain our growth, if we use our oxygen correctly, eventually And get funding from VCs, the sky's the limit. There's no, there's no reason why this, this will not grow into a multimillion-dollar company.

And so when you go into like Peru, has that just been organically, like people from Peru are finding you, or are you going to Peru and saying, hey, we're doing a Google AdWords or Facebook strategy targeting Peru?

No, no, our countries that are right now active have been organically because projects or referrals of projects have, have, uh, come to us. For example, right now we, we're starting, uh, about 20 projects in Guatemala, and that came organically around one of our clients. He was developing a lot of properties in Guatemala. Somebody heard about KeeperFi, so we started a process, but we didn't even look at Guatemala.

Nice. And then on the, on the opposite side, so in terms of marketing strategies you guys have tested, I think, you know, it's part of every entrepreneur's journey. What, what hasn't worked in terms of growth strategy that you hoped would work well for KeeperFi?

What hasn't worked?

Yeah. What failed? What would you say are failed experiments and you wouldn't do again?

What will never work is that users download it and use it forever without us. That doesn't work. We're still a small company with a small solution, small solution. So users that enter our platform They still want to be in touch with somebody. We haven't grown to that yet. So we've made marketing strategies so that it can be very self-user growth. They can enter our platform, register, and they can go to our videos, tutorial videos. They can upload their information. But that's, uh, 1% of our clients, there's still a lot of demand for people trying to be beside us as they grow. And I think that's gonna, that's gonna change eventually. Uh, if you remember, um, Brian Chesky, he says that one of, one of his, his duties at the beginning of Airbnb was to go help people set up their camera so they can set up their profile in Airbnb. their camera, and he went property by property to help. I remember you created an Airbnb profile, you need to take a picture. That's the beginning, you know, and we're very conscious of that. It has to be an effort at the beginning. If it were easy, everybody would do it.

And what was the— so, you know, with that, it sounds like, you know, you need demo, you need that more handholding, and it's less of a self-serve model. where you can actually go through it and upgrade. It's very unlikely that people will pay for that. Why the decision to go to the freemium model then?

Well, because we always try to have statistics of our sales team. What are the comments? If it's too expensive, why don't they like it? And one of our main Our main reasons why we didn't have enough growth was people thought it was very expensive without trying it out because they're not accustomed to using technology and they're not accustomed to paying for technology in that process. So if you're an old-school administrator or a property manager and you've never paid for this solution, why would you start paying now? You know, so at the beginning it's like, use our platform, we have a 14-day trial, and they were, no, I don't want to use it, just give me the cost. I was like, what? Come on, first use it. No, I don't want to use it, give me the cost. It's like, it costs $5. It's too expensive, thank you. I was like, what? You don't even know what it is. So I created the freemium model, To eliminate that, you can use it for free. Use it for free, and if you want to upgrade, give me a call.

Interesting. I wonder how that'll pan out. I wonder if the the demo model might work better. Like, look, we don't even give you the price until you sit on, and we'll show you how it's worked, and maybe that'll.

Yeah, well, we tried that. We tried not giving the price, and then we couldn't. We couldn't. Like people would stop, would stop us, and. I don't want to know more about the product, give me a price. Like, what? Let me show you the solution first, you know?

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

Oh yeah, it's been, it's been a month, uh, actually yesterday, uh, it's been a month since the freemium model came out. Uh, we have a campaign around it. We, we, uh, made a raffle for a video, a security video camera for everybody that registered their property for free. And we have users that we don't normally have. It's interesting. It's beginning to grow. So we'll see. We'll see how it pans out.

Hey guys, just taking a quick break here. If you guys didn't already notice, this episode is jam-packed with value. So what we decided to do is actually split the episode into 2 separate episodes. So stay tuned for later this week. We'll release the second part of this episode.

Thank you.