Peter Goldstein: How Tech Founders Can Successfully List on the Stock Exchange #234

Hello, hello everybody. This is your host, Akhil Jabbar, and welcome back to another episode of SaaS District. In today's episode, we'll be talking about how tech founders can successfully list on the stock exchange. Today, our guest is Peter Goldstein. He is the founder and CEO of Exchange Listing, a capital markets advisory firm specializing in helping emerging growth companies list on major stock exchanges such as NASDAQ and the New York Stock Exchange. Peter has over 35 years experience as an entrepreneur, investment banker, and strategic advisor. He has successfully led IPOs, uplistings, mergers, and private placements across a range of industries. Through Exchange Listings, he guides companies through the complex go-public process, with a focus on compliance, capital formation, and long-term growth. He is also the founder of MS Capital and the author of The Entrepreneur's IPO, offering a practical roadmap for founders seeking public market entry, which we'll talk about today. So welcome, Peter. Super excited to have you on the show today.

Super excited to be here, Akeel. Thanks so much for having me.

Yeah, so I'd love to hear just a little bit, you know, of your background, how you've kind of gotten into the space. You know, over 35 years of experience. You're now working with founders who are helping, you know, helping them get to the stage of IPOing. I'd love to hear, you know, where, at what stage, you know, are companies coming to you? What are they looking for? And, you know, what are the real challenges that, you know, you're seeing that tech founders are facing when preparing for an IPO?

Akeel, you know, it wasn't like my master plan to be an advisor to emerging growth companies around the world when I was young. I started my first company in my, in my 20s, and I had my first exit at 30. So I learned a lot. I learned a lot. Then that was a strategic buyer, and I started to really immerse myself as an entrepreneur in what are the different ways that founders can build their companies and then create an exit strategy or liquidity event for themselves. And even then in my 20s, I didn't even know what an exit plan was or the options that came. Just went out to have success. And so for, I'm now 62, so I'm— rounding 38 years of different activities, all related with emerging growth companies around the world. And my focus area, if you will, is inside of the capital markets and working with IPOs as a strategic way for companies to access capital and liquidity. I also work directly with CEOs and founders more as a coach and advisor for them, as I have all of this experience now. and have made, you know, had lots of successes and made lots of mistakes. So those are the things that when you get to a certain age of having, you know, the wisdom and the experience to be able to impart and share that with, you know, the younger generation of CEOs and founders that are imparting a journey, which is, I have tremendous amount of respect and appreciation for really anybody who's taking on growing a business that's purpose-driven inside of the complexities of the modern world.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, so you've had, you know, an exit yourself, you said around 30 years old, um, and now you work with companies who are looking to, you know, looking to, to, to seek liquidity on the public markets. You know, if a founder is listening in today and they're thinking about, okay, I'm at this stage, um, seeking liquidity, uh, on my business, but I'm kind of seeking, you know, maybe weighing out these 2 options, what would you maybe advise them or tell them on, you know, why they should choose maybe either of these paths? Because, you know, one is, you know, One requires a lot more, more, more, a different kind of skill set or maybe a different— I don't know, you tell me kind of what is required at that stage if you want to IPO versus, you know, exiting and kind of working with the strategic buyers you've done in the past.

Yeah. Where I start, Akeel, really is, is the mindset of preparing your company for an exit. Not even necessarily knowing which one you'll take, but there is a certain pathway and a mindset that comes with, organizing yourself, you know, as an example, if you're a founder and you're used to making all your own decisions, acting without oversight, without having an audit, without having the complexities of governance, that takes an adjustment. And so I like to kind of think about the pathway to getting ready for an exit strategy. It's like any other journey. A large portion of that preparation is the same until you get to a certain direct point where you have to choose a direction that you wanna follow. And then there are some specialized aspects that come along with that that would be slightly different if you were looking at perhaps, if you're staying private, maybe you wanna bring on a private equity or venture capital firm, maybe you wanna look at a merger acquisition or some type of a strategic partnership. You know, those all require a lot of the same aspects of governance and preparation as if you were looking at an exit strategy of preparing for an IPO. A large portion of that starts with the founder. And that's your audience, right, making that shift. And I can almost promise you, having done it myself, I've taken my own company public a number of times, I've advised many on both private and public transactions, that that's where it starts. It doesn't start with, hey, let me go do an IPO and then figure it all out. It starts with, hey, here's how I wanna think about growing my company, and I wanna be prepared. If you're, I have a saying, I'll share with you, Akeel, if you're IPO ready, you're ready for almost anything in business.

Really? Okay. So what does IPO ready mean? I mean, what are the, you know, what's the timeframe that you help, you know, kind of prepare founders to get listed? I mean, is it 6 months? Is it a year typically that you work with them to kind of get prepared? And then what are typical challenges that you see that, you know, they face and that you have to help them overcome? So, as you said, once they overcome that, then, you know, you said they can face anything, right? So what are you really helping them at that point?

Drink to that. Agreed. There are traditional timeframes for somebody who is seeking to go public. In this market, those are a little bit longer because there's a lot of challenges in the realities of the market. But typically, give listeners a framework. You wanna be 12, 18, even 24 months away from when you think you'd be getting to that point of doing an IPO. And that way you have the ability to prepare internally. The longest lean item is usually getting your audited financials. Going public requires a certain type of a financial audit that's GAAP compliant under certain regulatory components called the PCAOB. Means it's just an auditing firm that can prepare an audit that would be accepted for passing through the SEC and through the public markets.

Mm-hm.

And that alone can take 4, 6, 9 months, depending on how complex your business, what kind of shape your books and records are, you know, and how organized you are with a financial controller or a CFO.

And what are some other things that you've seen? Like, what are some big other factors? So aside from, you know, having your books and financials in order, um, what are important key, you know, things that are important if you're considering going public? Like, you know, let's say like ideal organizational structure or, you know, solid management team or What do you typically look for and say, okay, this company's now ready beyond setting up their financials?

Yeah, there's 2 pieces. So you talked about all the organizational, that would kind of form more into the qualitative side of preparing for an IPO as opposed to the quantitative side. And the qualitative side is critical. So you need to have a team no matter where you're headed in all this. My first and foremost counsel to everybody is understand that it takes a team. Going public is not an individual sport. It's a group sport, and you need professionals around you, and you need professionals who really would have a knowledge and understanding of all of the different aspects because they have to be intertwined. So we talked about audit, we talked about legal, right? What I do is I'm an advisor to those companies early on in the process, and then later on you bring in the underwriters and you bring in the exchange.

We work directly with.

But before all that can even happen, you really need— so that's your professional team, right? But then you need to focus on your internal team, which is what you're asking about.

Right.

The 2 critical roles that I like to see are CEO and a CFO. And if they don't have public experience, then at least they have acted as a controller, and then we can help teach them and educate and train them. And then as the organization develops to be public, you need an independent board. And this is one of the bigger kind of learning curves for founders is where now all of a sudden you have to be accountable to a board of directors.

Mm-hmm.

So typically, you know, we start with a 5-person board, and of that, typically 2 of those are insiders, you know, founder, CEO, or CEO and CFO. And then you have 3 independent directors, and those independent directors are there to really look after the interests of the shareholders and the stakeholders and to oversee corporate governance. It's one of my areas of expertise. I've studied it at 2 of the best business schools in the world and specialize in corporate governance as a board of directors for small to medium-sized companies, which is very different than it would be if you were a mid-cap or a large-cap company.

Right.

Because the challenges are different. And so when you're building a board, you know, from a founder's perspective, you're gonna need independent directors, but you wanna have independent directors that know and bring value to the specific area that you're working in, size, sector, you know, and the growth trajectory.

And, you know, if somebody's maybe, you know, listening in, they're kind of considering, you know, taking their company public, what are they— what should they be ensuring that they look for specifically? Let's say, let's talk about, you know, board of directors. What are— how can they best find the right people who would help them with that? And, you know, where would they look?

Yeah, I mean, look, it starts usually with your own network and your own Rolodex, and then you build out from there. I like to look for the cultural fit. You wanna bring people on that are aligned and akin with the culture, that they understand the mission of the business, the purpose of the business, and the sector of the business. So for me, I would be looking for somebody who understands the industry. I'd be looking for somebody who has experience on public boards. And one of the most important roles is that of the independent chair in the audit committee. So that is a person who works in conjunction with the company and with the auditors and will oversee that function. And that requires a bit of expertise. So it can't just be your neighbor down the street who is one that says he's a financial expert. You need experience and you need time. And you need a resume to be able to demonstrate that you have that because it's highly required and complex to be in that position. And I've done it. Most of the companies at the stage of where your listeners are, they're growing companies and they're not used to having these controls and they're not used to having all of these systems in place. So that person is kind of the bridge on the board between the outside, the governance, the reporting requirements, and then on the inside, working with the management team and working with the finance team to be able to make sure that they kind of satisfy and create these systems and internal controls that are needed along the way. So cultural fit, expertise, background, and specific knowledge that can really contribute. And then there's some intangibles I would want from a board member. It'd be nice if they themselves had a strong Rolodex, right? They had access to people that you wanna get to go to meet in whether the areas that you might have some deficiencies or wanna bolster up some of your strengths internally, that they have experience perhaps in going public or perhaps in raising capital or scaling a business, right? It's really almost look at them as an extension of management. That's what a good board is.

Okay.

And not just some check-the-box, you know, list of people that you have to be accountable and give a report to once a quarter.

Makes sense. And, you know, we're recording this here, you know, April 2025. You know, markets have been kind of all over the place. As you can say, it's kind of been chaos in the market, I guess, in terms of the finance market, and more specifically, I guess, in the US, but also kind of all over the world. And, you know, a lot of founders may be struggling from raising money or kind of considering different options of liquidity. And maybe this is a route that they haven't considered but could also be considering when you're working with founders, you know, also with AI kind of evolving now, kind of changing the game of how, you know, a bunch of founders are coming in now and building, you know, unicorns are kind of coming out of this, right? And I've heard, you know, this is the era where we're going to see kind of the biggest single founder unicorns in history, right? So billionaires are kind of going to come out of this with single, single founders and their team of robots. But, you know, I'm kind of curious from your perspective, how are you kind of seeing this and what are you seeing the effects of that on the markets today and maybe how our listeners can think about maybe considering this?

Well, I think the first thing is, is for your listeners to understand that you don't have to be a unicorn to enter the capital markets.

Okay.

All right, there are microcap and small cap companies, actually more microcap and small cap companies have listed in this market than they have giant unicorns. So you don't have to be a VC-backed or a private equity-backed company. And by definition, let's put some size and some parameters around that. Microcap would be, and these are all designated by what they consider market caps or market capitalization. Which would be the number of shares that you have issued times the price per share, that equals your market capitalization. And so from $50 million market cap floor to $300 million is what they would consider microcap.

Okay.

And there are companies, especially in tech, that would get high valuations that would be able to access capital even at that size and stage of development. So if you've done an initial fundraising, maybe perhaps you've done a Series A, And you're ready then for the next stage of growth, and you'll turn to private equity and venture capital. This is another form. And then the small cap would be $300 million to $1 billion market cap. That's a wide open range, right?

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, inside of that, there are alternatives to the traditional IPO. So now you're gonna see more and more alternatives coming, as you said, as technology and advancement is coming, and there's complexity around markets, the market timing. There's more companies in the pipeline wanting to go public than there probably ever has been in our history.

Wow.

Because capital has been on the sidelines and it is largely on the sidelines. It's dripping into the market. But going public through a traditional route is a big leap of faith for both sides, for the company and for the investors. So with that said, everybody's trying to minimize their risk, and that's why we're seeing kind of some challenges in— but here's what I can leave you with. The markets are open.

Okay.

Companies are seeking capital, capital seeking to invest in the right companies. So the difference between now and some other periods in time is just gonna be that the valuations are more sensitive and the investors are more selective. But the markets are open, they always are. They ebb and flow with the risk. You're talking about AI now. Well, I was around and I was an investor during the dot-com era, right? So we've seen this show before. We didn't have the same geopolitical risk, we didn't have the same exact technology, but there was a real quick opening of a window for companies to enter into the market. And a lot of great opportunities came and a lot of failures came at the same time. So obviously investors are much more sensitive now given the market conditions, given the geopolitical challenges, and given that AI, while it's got phenomenal upside and opportunity, also has its risks and its challenges to it.

Absolutely. So, you know, you mentioned, you know, valuation being one, you know, they're kind of more selective of what they're looking at in terms of what they're, what they're interested in, in terms of the investors. Um, what are some other, you know, what are you seeing as kind of successful companies that are IPOing right now? What are key milestones that investors are excited about? What are numbers they're looking at that excites them? Is it certain industries that you're seeing are more, more exciting? Or, you know, is it growth rate? Is it kind of typical kind of VC, um, metrics that they look at. I'm kind of curious to know what you've seen that's working well right now.

Yeah, I would say it's across the board, whether you're a VC, PE, or you're, you know, an open company, you know, I mean, an investor in the institutional markets, you want to see profitability, you want to see cash flow that's positive, and you want to see growth. Those are, you know, the very, very kind of fundamentals. And it doesn't mean that you need $1 billion in revenue. You know, we've got companies that are doing $10 million in revenue, but they're profitable and they can demonstrate growth. And even if as much as 30% year over year, you've got the ability to demonstrate growth and you want to obviously recurring model where there's traction. You know, I like to start with product market fit. Can the company demonstrate that they have a strong product market fit in a growth area?

Mm-hmm.

And that they're growing at the same time. And so investors are just looking for these fundamentals. It's not enough just to have a story.

Okay.

Right? And there are times when the markets have been open, as recent as 2021, where story stocks were getting invested in. Those investors didn't always fare so well because the stories didn't turn out to be fundamentally sound.

Right.

So I think that you have to look at marrying that up. You need a good story. You need to be able to position your company and communicate properly to the investors. investor community.

Mm-hmm.

But it really is about having some good fundamentals to go alongside with the traction that you're putting into your story regarding, you know, kind of the sizzle, if you will, about the innovation. You know, the companies that I work with are incredibly innovative. You know, they're bringing new and scaled solutions to the market. So obviously anything with tech, you know, is— you asked about the hot sectors— is hot. We see a lot of life science. and medtech innovations and healthtech innovations coming to market and the marrying of those. I'm particularly interested in more traditional companies that are utilizing AI to help them become more profitable and to be able to scale faster.

Right.

So, you know, AI to me, you can't just also sprinkle some magic, you know, AI fairy dust on your company and call it an AI. You know, I just hung up with one that's very real where they're utilizing AI inside of autonomous vehicles and drones. It's fascinating how quickly things are evolving. And the call before that was with a founder that is, let's just say, very forward-looking about his technology, but couldn't demonstrate the actual applications in real tangible ways. And that's how investors, that's what we look for. We're very selective about who we work with, but it's the same thing investors. So it's really a combination, I think, of a market entry in a growing sector, fundamental growth, with the ability to show how the company can continue with additional capital to be able to scale and give returns to the investors.

Right. And in terms of location of these companies, because from my understanding, you work with the New York Stock Exchange and then the NASDAQ, so obviously in the US, Do you work with companies kind of all over the world? I know when I was in New York and, you know, working with companies in New York, there was companies from, you know, Japan and kind of all over the place who came down and were there to help kind of list their company. So I wonder, you know, if you work with companies all over, and then what do you see as differences in why you should consider either of these options? Like, when do you tell them, hey, like, let's go list on the New York Stock Exchange versus the NASDAQ? I mean, what's the preference and what's the benefits of either one? Is it cost? Is it more access? Or— To pick up more investors, or what is it?

Well, let's start with the first question because I love that.

Yeah.

And I have my master's degree in international business. I've traveled the world, I've studied it all over the world. And so for me, I love working specifically with what they call FPIs, foreign private issuers, which are companies from all over the world that want to access the US capital markets. So, you know, I've currently in Europe, work obviously with companies here. We work with companies in Asia. We work with companies, you know, really throughout the globe that are able to meet the requirements to list their securities and trade on a US exchange. To give you some statistics, last year in 2024, there were more foreign companies that listed than there were domestic companies in the microcap and small-cap space.

Interesting.

Is they're looking for access to capital, they're looking for liquidity, and they're looking for the ability to get that opportunity to expand inside of the largest, most robust capital market in the world. So that trend I expect to see continuing. I'll be heading over to Asia later this year. I'm gonna spend a few months Working because there's cultural differences as well as there are business differences.

Definitely, yeah.

And so this is one of the areas that I'm quite interested in working with CEOs and founders, and we'll be spending time both. So I kind of COVID 3 continents. I'm in the US and currently in Europe, and then I'll be over in Asia. And each one has got its own unique set of challenges, but ultimately, The trend, I believe, will continue because you're seeing more growth in these sectors geographically, and thereby, you know, they want more access to capital. And so, you know, the investors that are also coming in into those projects are looking for liquidity.

Right.

And so not only are you gonna see private companies that are gonna do that, we also work with existing public companies. that wanna have a dual list or access to the US markets as they've exceeded or kind of reached the limits that they can in their local markets internationally.

Okay.

So as far as which exchange, you asked me about the benefits and the difference between the 2 exchanges. Truthfully, they both have incredible offerings, and we introduce our clients to both.

Okay.

And sometimes one will have, company will have an orientation for one reason or another around NASDAQ or the NYSE. And these are the lower levels, NASDAQ Capital Markets or NYSE American. And listing standards are very similar. There are some slight variations, but not material. The process is a little bit different. But one of the bigger things really is just about where the company feels most comfortable. And NASDAQ tends to be get obviously a lot of the tech orientation, but it's not limited. You have the same companies that can have the same orientation list on either exchange. So it's largely a preference of the management team and the founders. There are some regulatory rules that are a little bit different. There are some standards that are a little bit different, but those are nuances. If you're looking at it from an overall You know, it's chocolate or vanilla, you know, which is, which is your preference. They're both good, uh, they both have their benefits.

Got it, that makes sense. And then, you know, what about when it comes to costs? You know, so I, from my understanding, you know, it's not cheap to, to list your, your company on the stock exchange, you know, from, from the compliance cost to, to financial cost to, to kind of all the— and then also ongoing, I believe, you know, there's some, some ongoing compliance costs that you have to— and regulatory costs that you have to maintain. So Especially for smaller companies, maybe at the lower microcap level, you know, how do you suggest to them to help, you know, work, work, balance their costs, and then also look at the benefits of going public versus staying, staying private?

Yeah, listen, no doubt, you know, this is one of the challenges of then having all this extra burden of reporting and audits and, you know, staffing and, you know, a board and regulatory. It's expensive.

Yeah.

And a lot of these smaller companies are so focused on putting all their money to work in growth that they don't necessarily wanna take the money out and put that towards the cost of going public. So often, and I'm typically an investor in a lot of these situations where they will go and raise some capital to offset the costs of going public. And there are many investors, myself included, And who wants knowing that a company is committed to going down that pathway is interested in providing additional capital. But either way, the company needs to budget for these things. And part of what I do as an advisor is to help to manage those costs, to help negotiate and structure that budget. Because just like anything, you need to know who you're working with, what the current market is, what the complexities are. And spend that money in a wise fashion. And so there are ranges depending on the size and the scope and the complexity of the company. But yes, it's a material expense. And then there are the ongoing costs after you've gone public. So I'm typically telling companies, you wanna budget $1 million for the going public costs. And depending on the company, you could spend more than that. after the fact in the open market. Could be $1 million, $1.5 million, $2 million, 'cause one of the areas, and it's extremely expensive, is to properly market your stock to investors. You don't just show up, Akeel, and say, okay, I'm public now. I made this mistake when I took my own first company public. I thought all the investors would just be waiting there.

Yeah.

Ready to buy stock. Not the case.

Okay.

No, and so you need specialized programs to be able to attract retail investors, go on institutional non-deal roadshows. All these things take time, take money. And so the budgets are different based upon the depth and the nature of your business, the number of shareholders you have, the sector that you're in, so on and so on. So there's no one-size-fits-all. When it comes to budget, it really varies depending on the depth and the scope and the nature of your business.

That makes sense. So maybe if you can share kind of as a last question here, maybe share some examples or any example of companies that you've worked with, you know, under $100 million in revenue, maybe, maybe smaller microcap or so, that have, you know, successfully navigated the IPO process and maybe share what's been the results of, of kind of the aftermath of once they've gone public and how you've helped them. And where they are today?

Yeah, actually, this is really not my client, but I think it's a great example of somebody who's doing something different in, in the markets to go public. It's a company called Newsmax that just did a specialized form of an IPO called a Regulation A or Reg A IPO. And this is utilizing direct-to-investor program. So in the US, It's for US-based companies. They can utilize an exemption to securities laws that were created under Obama's administration called the JOBS Act, and that you can actually raise capital under less regulatory scrutiny without an underwriter and sell shares directly to individual investors under these crowdfundings. So Regulation A, I think, is a trend we're gonna see more and more of. It's great for a company like that that has a big following, that has subscribers and loyal followers. So they oversubscribed their Regulation A offering, and then they opened up, actually that was on the NYSE as well, and had tremendous success in their trading, and is kind of a demonstration of what is an alternative to a traditional IPO. You hear about direct listings, you'll hear about de-SPAC, right? Everybody knows about the SPAC craze. So the companies that are looking for options to an IPO, they exist. They all have their pros and cons, but I wanted to mention that one. While I didn't work directly with them, we are working with others on regulation Type A offerings as well as alternative types, because this is not as simple as a traditional IPO market anymore servicing all these needs. And so there are very unique alternatives that are providing optionality to both investors, the companies themselves, and a different route and way for those entities and those investors to be able to enter the capital markets.

Got it. That makes sense. Any last question or any last thoughts or anything you think we missed that you think is important for our listeners to understand if they're looking to consider this option today?

Yeah, look, it's not for everybody. So that's the first thing I'll say. It takes a very, very big commitment, and it's not something that you can go in kind of half-heartedly to. So do your homework, right? Get a good team of advisors, align your stakeholders, meaning you need the support of the people that are currently in your organization, including your shareholders and your investors and your management team, and then seek the advice of people that are current in the market. So, you know, there's a joke in the IPO sector that if you've done 2 IPOs, you're an expert.

Exactly.

Well, you know, that is just the joke, but if you really wanna get input from somebody who's gonna give you advice, make sure they're current. You know, they know what's going on in today's market.

Right.

You know, we just put on this big IPO summit at NASDAQ, and we had over 100 founders there, and, and everybody in the room were subject matter experts current in today's market. And, you know, it's different than what happened 3 months ago and 6 months ago. Just like the rest of the world, everything is moving so fast. So make sure that if you're going to go down this route, that you go with your eyes wide open, that you have, you know, current, really kind of true knowledgeable advisors that can give you the market intelligence, right, the access that you need, and to be able to help guide you through the complexity of the market.

That's excellent advice, Peter. Appreciate, appreciate you sharing all that. Um, so I want to kind of jump over to the, the second part of the interview, which is more of the, the personal rapid-fire questions. You ready for that?

Okay.

Yeah, you don't have to take it. You can take as long as you want, but they'll be kind of quick and we'll go with it. So the first question, Peter, is, uh, what's one activity you enjoy outside of work that gets you into a flow state?

Wow, flow state. Uh, I love it. So when I'm in, when I'm in, in the States, I live in South Florida and I live on the beach, and I love to go to the morning Sunrise. Okay, there's something about the ocean, uh, and, and, and being there for what's somewhat spiritual for the sun rising, uh, that sets my mind in a very open and flow state so that after that, I— whether I go exercise or I go to work or whatever I do right after, I find that I'm in a, a different flow state, uh, after that experience.

Beautiful. Peter, what's, uh, you know, over 35 years experience in the, in this, in this world, what's, uh, or in, in the specific working world, what's one piece of advice you wish you had known and would tell, let's say, your 25-year-old self if you can go back today?

Wow, just one? I think the one that I've learned that, you know, we're doing now, which is start building your network earlier, you know. Relationships compound value. And I think I was more focused as a younger man on building revenue and building profitability and driving my business and was less focused on network. So I would start building network early, earlier, and know that that will provide compounded value just like capital will. Right. So, you know, be— invest and give as much as, and actually more than you would expect to receive back.

Awesome advice. What are some of the biggest challenges you're currently facing in order to continue to grow your own business, Exchange Listing Today? Or, you know, what keeps you up at night these days, if anything?

Time. Like the most finite resource that we have. I, in addition to Exchange Listing, I Very vibrant. I just finished a book. I have another entity called Amos Capital that I'm the founder of. I'm involved in a number of businesses. I sit on a number of boards. I travel over 3 continents. So the biggest challenge that I face on a regular basis is the one commodity that we can't buy any more of, which is time.

You haven't replaced yourself yet. You haven't found a—

I don't have a bot. I'm working on it. Not yet.

Not yet. Peter, who or what are some of the best 3 resources? These can be books, mentors, or people you follow in the space who you'd say have been most instrumental to your success over these last few years.

Well, I just had a chance to revisit Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. I met with the grandson of Napoleon Hill. We had a mastermind event where it's one of the principles of success with Napoleon Hill. If you haven't read the book, read it. If you've read it, read it again. It was really phenomenal to be back in that space and to have met the grandson of Napoleon Hill and hear some of the stories directly by people all over the world that have engaged in that practice and mindset. Second person that comes to my mind is my mom. She's 96, she's a Holocaust survivor.

Wow.

She is the strongest, most impactful relationship I have in my life. She has taught me the critical importance of being antifragile, which as I define it is not just being resilient, but overcoming challenges that you have in your life and thriving. And so, you know, tremendous, you know, lesson for everybody. Um, you know, third really, uh, are my, my day-to-day business partners who hold me accountable and I hold them accountable, uh, to being able to produce results that are unprecedented.

Amazing. Oh, fantastic resources. Peter, what does, you know, success mean to you today at, you know, in your 60s today, you know, whether it's personally Business, financially, life? I guess there's no right answer, but how do you define it today?

Yeah, it's a great question. It changes over the years and over the decades, and it's less to me financial. I've been often— just recently I was with my daughter. She came to me in New York, and I was sharing with her that there are secondary forms of currency. And to me, a lot of that comes in seeing one's purpose experienced and being able to realize success that isn't measured by profit and loss.

Hmm.

People I can impact, people I can touch, and seeing my own contributions ripple out into the world, that's a form of success that's intangible. and incredibly rewarding and valuable, probably more so than the tangible ones that I can mention.

Absolutely. Love it. Love it. This has been great, Peter. Thank you for sharing all your wisdom, all your knowledge, and all your expertise here today. So, you know, appreciate you joining our podcast today and would love to ask you, where can founders get in touch with you, learn more about you and your company if they want to learn more? Where's the best place to get in touch?

The best place is really on LinkedIn. You know, I'm quite active. So, you know, I put up a lot of information on entrepreneurship, on entrepreneurialism, which are different to me, on IPOs. And I have a newsletter called The Integrated CEO. All of that can be found on LinkedIn and feel free to message me. I've got a new book coming out, which I'll be launching there about investing in IPOs and everything that I'm really doing. The only one platform that is centralized for me is LinkedIn. So look forward to people connecting and feel free to reach out. Have your audience reach out anytime.

Awesome. Awesome. We'll add your LinkedIn link to the show notes, guys. You want to make sure to check out and reach and connect to Peter. And once again, I appreciate you joining again today, Peter. Thanks again.

My pleasure, Akeel. Thanks for having me.

Cheers. Thank you all for watching this episode and joining SaaS District today. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the bell for future episodes where we interview top leaders in the SaaS industry. If you're a SaaS company looking to grow and unlock the true value of your business, get in touch with us at Horizon Capital and myself or one of our consultants will provide a free assessment to help you get there and hit your goals. If you have any feedback or suggestions for this podcast, please comment down below and help us improve our content for you all. Thanks again and see you on the next one.