In this interview, Ton Dobbe explains what distinguishes a remarkable SaaS company from a typical software business. He argues that remarkable firms generate buzz by deliberately choosing a deep, narrow market focus, creating a clear value proposition, and building a flywheel of customer advocates. Dobbe introduces his framework from the book The Remarkable Effect, which organizes ten key traits into three strategic levers: the Value lever (segmentation, positioning, and value proposition), the Viability lever (sustaining growth and staying ahead of competition), and the Volume lever (scaling through advocacy and exponential growth). He describes the Remarkable Index, a 30‑question self‑assessment that helps CEOs gauge their performance on each trait. The conversation delves into specific traits such as “be different, not just better,” emphasizing differentiation through empathy, precise messaging, and selling the outcome rather than the product. Throughout, Dobbe offers practical guidance for CEOs on how to apply the framework, assess their business, and cultivate a remarkable software company regardless of industry.
Chapters
What makes a remarkable software business versus just another, you know, SaaS company out there?
That's a broad question. It's those companies that we— it's It's the companies that create buzz, that people talk about. And it's not, it can be, of course, buzz in its own right, in its own context, 'cause you can create buzz about a payroll company where the subject is really, really dull.
Right.
But there are remarkable payroll companies out there that solve that problem in a way that people just keep coming back for. It's those companies that decide for themselves that they want to do things in a different way to stand out, that realize for themselves that they cannot please everybody and therefore they don't, and therefore they go deep and narrow, that creates something that's desirable and really focus on value. And once they get that right, it's like moving it from there. They create a flywheel, create ambassadors, and keep moving that. They also realize that not everybody needs to know about them. It's the right people that need to know about them. And once you start on that particular premise, it's much easier to start talking the right language, to solve the right problems that are really highly valuable to solve, super critical to solve, and also where you can do that little extra to, well, to create something that people talk about. And that can be a small feature at the end.
Right. So even if you're a payroll company, perceived as dull, hard to create buzz, I think basically we're saying any SaaS company can still achieve remarkable status.
Yeah, exactly. You don't have to be— I mean, people always think about the only companies we talk about are the ones that are really, really the big ones and that are transformative in a global space. I mean, we all know the names, you know, the Ubers, the Airbnbs, the Googles, of course, of the world. And in the past, the Salesforces.
Exactly.
Yes, for some reason, for some really, that takes off, but they all started small as well.
That's true. Um, yeah, we usually forget that, right? We all see the end effect and the end result, but we don't see the grind in the beginning. Um, so, so let's talk a little bit, you know, your book, The Remarkable Effect. You describe the 10 common trait framework, what makes a remarkable SaaS business, and you divide those 10 traits into 3 segments or levers, which you call— so the value lever, the viability lever, and then the volume lever, right?
Um, yeah.
Can you speak more of each of those 3, and if I'm a SaaS company, I'm a CEO, how can I look internally into my business and making sure I'm leveraging each of those kind of levers properly? And maybe if you can share an example of each.
Okay. Well, first of all, I mean, if you want to understand how you're doing ranking-wise, just do the Remarkable Index. That's an assessment that I have on my website. So it's 30 questions, 3 questions per trait. And it's those questions that really get you out of your comfort zone. It's those questions that, yeah, that you rarely ask yourself and you actually should do it because that reveals, it opens your eyes and you know where you stand. So the value lever first. The value lever for me is the foundation. It's all about the segmentation and the positioning and creating your value prop. That's the foundation of everything. And the reason why that needs to be— that's why that's first, is because it defines all the things that come after that. The moment you've got it 100% clear about who you're for and who you're not for, that's a very important thing. You can start to kind of carve out something whereby you can be remarkable. But the moment you do that as well and you get that— well, too many companies at the end are too wide. They say we are focus on professional service companies. Which ones? Well, everyone, because if you do a project, we can manage your project. Well, then of course, that's a wide open space. And it actually also means that you attract the right customers, but you also attract the wrong customers. And those customers will then start to ask you things, and it will pull you apart from a product strategy perspective as well, and from a sales perspective. The more you get it narrowed down to what are really the right ones are, it will help you with alignment of product strategy. And that will allow you to be far more precise and more curious about like what's really happening there to stay on top of things. It will help you to become more resourceful and focus on the short term, but also keep focusing on the long term, the things that are happening there.
Okay.
It will actually help you to focus and create more customers turning to fans. And that actually, of course, is also like helping you with your flywheel for then the last lever, which I call the volume lever. The one in the middle is the viability lever. The volume lever is all about like then creating the growth. So if you put the value lever and the viability lever, which is about getting there and staying there as a company, and then the volume lever on top of that, and you create that extra, which is essentially translated in the effect, the remarkable effect. It starts to go from linear towards more of an exponential thing.
Exponential growth.
Yeah.
Nice. So let's get a little bit more detailed on those 10 traits. Obviously, if people want to check out all 10 of them, they can check or get your book and read it themselves. But maybe I'd like to cover maybe 3 or 4 of these. that maybe are more useful, more helpful to our audience listening today. So let's go on the first lever where you have one, number 3, be different, not just better. In your strategy, how do you help them to stand out from the crowd and be different, not just better? Because I think that's what people think, right? They think, how can I be better? But I don't really think that, you know, also how do you be different?
Well, being better at the end is looking at who's next to you, like your competitor. So you're always starting to compare yourself against those that are out there. And I mean, no company, big or small, can outcompete every single one of their competitors. It's like, it's impossible. So I mean, I wouldn't say don't focus on what your competitors are doing, but don't let yourself be, well, led by them. So what I also see is that too many companies want to fit or sort of by nature fit in with all what the others are doing.
Exactly.
The same messaging. If you replace the logos, it's very often super hard to understand who they are because it's all so similar. The moment you focus on your ideal customers, the ones that you deliver that exponential value to them, then you can become super specific about what their problems really are compared to the others in that maybe that same vertical. That's where you can create something that's valuable and desirable, and you can start to do that in a way that's, yeah, that where those companies will say, hey, wait a minute, this is something different. This is— and I'm not saying that different needs to be like shouting branding, or it needs to be, of course, credible. It needs to be highly concrete, and it needs to do things in a way that— but people say, yeah, you build trust. I trust this. This is what I want to have.
So when people think of better, they think, okay, you know, I have to have better features, I have to have better pricing. and I have to have a better, you know, maybe service. Is there anything else you can do other than that and to be different?
Yeah, I mean, positioning-wise, they can be highly different. They, yeah, it's all about how you get things across and how you do that in a way that will stand out from what people, what the norm is. And that's, of course, something that's different in every vertical market because of the standards that are there. It's also the interesting part about the remarkable effect The norms are constantly changing. What we talked about last year isn't necessarily what we talk about this year because things have evened out. So now that we have to set the next bar, that's why it's also— that's why I've got these 3 levers. The moment you got your value lever defined and then your viability lever, with your viability lever, it's your ability to step up constantly, to constantly see and be one step ahead of what your customers really are out for and offer them that. And that's also about being different. It comes down to really nailing it, to talking in a way whereby your customers see you get me. That goes down to the other end of the traits, which is one of the ones that I always really like, is that remarkable software companies surprise. and hit the right nerve. It's especially in that area where you can create something that is perceived as different as well. Because where everybody is really vague on messaging, you can be very specific and just hit the right nerve for them.
Got it.
Where a lot of companies think that they have to kind of, yeah, prove everything with facts, like we are, and talk about themselves like they are the leader and the best and the biggest and the number one. You can focus on being different by focusing on showing empathy because you really understand your audience. And with the empathy, it's about how do they feel, how do you address it, and how can you help them from where they are today to a different world. Where, for example, trait number 9, I believe it is, remarkable software companies sell the idea, not the product. That's something, I mean, open up a B2B software website, 9 out of 10 are all about the product. It's what they do. Nobody's selling you the outcome and create that visual picture about what can be if you start working with them. So all of those little ingredients help you to become different, not just better.
Right.
So you can search, you can, you can search for those types of opportunities in all layers, in products, in sales, in marketing. Yeah.
