027: Alisa Cohn, Conversation 1: Progressive daily wins

One way to think about that is as a leader, to encourage people to think about what are small milestones and small progressive wins that you can declare victory on throughout the project to help them be able to sort of see their own progress. So as a leader, if you aren't naturally attuned to that, you might recognize I need to help my people find progress every day or every week. So a question you could ask yourself every day is, is, did I help the people on my team define and celebrate success or progress for themselves? And it's a yes or a no.

Hi, this is Joshua Spodek, and this is Leadership in the Environment. You're not the only one who cares about your impact enough to act. You're part of a global community undeterred by people saying, if others don't change first, then what I do doesn't matter, and other excuses. We've read the science. We can do this. This show is about personal responsibility, acting and improving your life by your values. As guest after guest says, the challenge was hard, but thank you for getting me to do it. I wish I had done it earlier. Listen on for leaders to inspire you, hear their struggles and then act. Go to JoshuaSpodak.com podcast to commit to a public, personal challenge of your own. You're not alone and you don't have to wait for others. Elisa Cohn is at the top of her field. She is one of Marshall Goldsmith's top 100 leadership coaches. She is one of Inc's top 100 speakers. And in this conversation she talks about how she became a leadership coach, how she became a speaker, not just how she became this, but how she reached the top of the field. I think this is actually probably the most laughter that I've had with any guest so far, which I think is related to her success. If you listen to her, she talks a lot about leadership practices and her views from someone at the top of the field. I'm going to call out one thing that perpetually I see leaders succeeding at, which is that she puts the other people's interests first. So let's listen to Elisa. So now we're recording, but we will.

Are we going to edit this part out?

Yes, we will. What about this? What about this? I like that, too. I'm that way also. Actually, one of the things I've been doing and this part might stay in because I like to keep the early part in. I don't know how many podcasts you've done, probably a bunch. But the. The most fun part is just the beginning. And just after the end is like, when people are, like, they let their guard down and just talk one, you know, person to person.

Yeah.

And not, like, trying to show anything off. I propose that we just talk person to person for a bit about leadership and then switch over to the environment.

Okay, great.

Okay. I gotta say, I met you a couple years ago through Marshall, right?

Yep, of course.

Oh, it's at his book thing at the New York Public Library.

If I remember right, is that where we met originally?

I think so. I think we were definitely speaking outside in front of the lines.

We walked outside, and I didn't even see you at the book thing, but we walked outside and you were there with your girlfriend, and. And we were all like, oh, my God. We didn't talk, and we just swapped cards and then we followed up.

Yeah, yeah.

And you had this beautiful card with a lot of, like, leadership principles on the card.

Yes. My meaningful connection and how to make people feel understood.

Awesome.

And let's see. So we met through Marshall. So it's not a surprise to me that you would be one of. Can I talk about you being one of Marshall's 100 coaches?

Absolutely.

So you applied, he picked you. Was there anything more to it than that? But what I really want to know is, like, what's it like doing it?

Well, it's phenomenal. I mean, it is really. It is just phenomenal. And as a sort of inspirational sort of experience, it is definitely that spending time with Marshall, just being in his sort of orbit is always like, a pleasure and inspirational and super helpful. He's built this incredible community around him. I mean, a lot. You know, there's a lot of members of the community, and then this marshals with 100 coaches is becoming kind of its own community. The mandate around paying it forward is so beautiful to have, like, top of mind for me, I think I've always been oriented in that way.

So for listeners, can you expand on what do you mean by this pay it forward thing?

Well, so maybe. Let me. Maybe if this will be helpful. Marshall Goldsmith and I was in the room when it happened. He was in a seminar led by another of our coaches. Ayse. You were there, too. That's right. Ayse Vercel. And she did this terrific workshop. And part of the workshop was around thinking about our heroes and who we want to emulate as heroes. And so at the end of the workshop, I walked over to Marshall and said, that was a great workshop. What did you get out of it? Did you get anything out of it? He said, yep, I'm going to adopt a bunch of coaches. I'm teaching them everything I know for free, and I'm going to have their only. Sort of. The only thing they're obligated to do is to, when they get old, as he said, pick another hundred people and pay it forward. And I thought, well, that's fantastic. I mean, I just, you know, as always, a very kind of a lofty goal and also a very great goal in terms of, you know, he is Marshall Goldsmith, and for those of you who don't know, he's top executive coach on the planet, and for him to also generously want to give to others his legacy project. So that was the genesis of the project. He then set about, you know, picking a hundred coaches, really leaders to be part of this. And so. And our mandate, you know, what he again requires of us, he said, I'm gonna teach you everything for free, and we're gonna build this community together. And what he always says, like, regularly says, I'm looking forward to hearing what you're gonna do when it's your time to pay it forward to pick other people and give to them.

Now I can't help but ask, even though I want to hear what's coming next, are you starting to think about that? Are you? I mean, he's got a couple years on you.

Yeah.

So you got a little time.

Yeah, exactly. Well, that's exactly it. So I got into coaching. You know, when I. When I first became a coach, the meme in my head, the sentence in my head, or the phrase in my head was to make a difference. To make a difference. To make a difference. That was really my. My North Star about becoming a coach. How can I make a difference? How can I really have an impact on this planet, in this world? And it was really through coaching, which is really where my natural strengths and talents lie. And I figured that out after I met a coach again a long time ago. So I go through my professional life, and I think also my personal life, and I think about making a difference, but I also think about everything. We also think about the muck and.

Mire of life, taxes, Got to go grocery shopping.

Yeah. And also. Right. And also my own professional success and, you know, making sure that I'm building my brand the way I need to. And, you know, we all have to make a living and also juggling the scheduling of all the clients and all those kinds of stuff. And when Marshall kind of came up with this idea of the Marshall goals with 100 coaches and then really began to you know, make sure that we remembered that our job was to pay it forward. For me, that definitely took that thought and put it in the front of my mind. And so I did a little mini project over the summer, which was called the Summer of Good Deeds. And so I, you know, inspired by this notion of paying it forward, I thought, well, I'm not exactly ready to, like, adopt 100 coaches myself, and I'm not exactly ready to figure out what my real pay it forward project is going to be. But I'm going to do a little mini project. And this summer, and this is what I did. I thought, how many good deeds can I do for people? And it's. It's not good. These, like, helping little across the street, not that kind of good deed. But how many proactive introductions can I make other people? How much sort of advice can I give someone to help set them on their way? How can I bring together a group of people who would all benefit from being together? How can I be more of a yes when someone asks me for help? And what Marshall has said was, is this is like an incredibly rewarding project for him. Like he always says, I think I'm getting more out of this than everybody else because it's so rewarding. And I found it in my Summer of Good Deeds that I got so much out of it. It was so rewarding to be able to be of service to other people. And again, with no expectation. This doesn't have to be payback, right? It's not about payback. There's no expectation of that. It's just, oh, yeah, this summer I'm going to orient myself around kind of doing good works and acts of service. And so I did. And also, I'm just reminding myself too, you know, I got more involved with my synagogue also as an act of service. There's a theater I'm involved with, a children's theater I'm involved with. I got more involved with the children's theater as active service. And so it just infused my world with a little more kind of proactive mandate around how can I do more acts of service? And that's really come out of, in part, being part of the marshallsmith100.

So can you share a couple of the. I feel like there's a story behind it. I suspect that the acts of service didn't come out of, like, sprung out of like Zeus or no Athena, or did it? Or was there a story behind how it happened? And then are there stories about any of the deeds?

Well, I would just say the Only real story is that I look at successful people who I consider to be successful, and especially certainly Marshall and others. And what I see is, in addition to doing the things they need to do and writing and doing good work, they also are focused on doing a favor for other people, doing favors. And so I just thought, well, that's cool. I'm gonna do more of that. And. But also, again, I want to just say, like, I was thinking, lyss, you got into coaching to make a difference. And so in the muck and mire of life, it's always hard to do that. So if you focus on this, this summer, let's just see as an experiment, if that changes the way you feel, that's all. And it was only that. And so an example is that there's a colleague of mine who said, I want to do more work in the Middle East. So she's a speaker. She wants to do more work in the Middle East. And I thought, oh, was it the Middle East? Yeah, Middle East. And so I thought, well, I actually have two contacts in Dubai. And so in the past, she's not a very close colleague, and they're not really great contacts, but in the past, I passed. I might have thought, well, I'm not sure if I can be helpful. But because I was really focused on this sort of summer of good works of acts of service, I just decided, well, there's no harm in asking. And so I said to her, well, I got two contacts that I can reach out to you about, that I can reach out on your behalf and see if they could be helpful. No promises. And she was so happy. You know, she was so thankful and so happy. Of course she was. And it made me happy that she was happy. And I reached out to both of the contacts, and one got back to me and agreed to be introduced. And so they got introduced, and we'll see if it turns into something. But I really, really made my day. It just totally made my day that I was able to make that connection. Whereas in the past, because I didn't necessarily feel I had a strong relationship, especially with the contacts, I might not have done it.

So people listening to this, hopefully they're thinking a couple things. One, I should do that, too. That way people can help each other out a lot more than they already are. And probably, hopefully, they're also thinking, if I get in touch with Elisa Cohen, then I can tell her what I need and she'll do it for me and I'll make her happy.

Well, I have no problem if anyone out there listening to this, could use something that I can be helpful with. My commitment to you, Josh, is that, yes, I will be helpful to anybody who reaches out to me if I can be. Now if they say to me, I'm trying to speak in, for example, making this up, Asia, I'm not sure if I have any contacts in Asia, I might. Okay. But off the top of my head, right this second, I'm not sure if I could be helpful. So I'm only going to be helpful if I think I can be helpful, if I can be helpful. But if. I promise you, if I can be helpful, I will.

And there must be some constraints in your time as well.

Yeah, yeah, of course. Like all of us. Right. But I agree. Can I just say, Josh, I really agree with your first point, which is that I would invite and I would challenge everybody listening to this right now to make this the winter of service. So right now we're, you know, it's January.

I don't edit as quick as maybe spring. I'll edit as fast as I can.

Yeah, right. That's great. Or spring. So you make it the season of service. Whatever you're in right now, make it a season of acts of service. Why not? And if you decide to do a month sprint on acts of service, fantastic. Do a month sprint. That's a great idea. But experience the experience of doing people favors, helping people out for the joy of doing it and see what happens.

And not just saying it, but doing it.

Saying not just saying it, but doing it.

Now I have a challenge that I, I see a lot of times. A lot of times people say, I'm going to help so and so, but they, they do what they think will help the other person. But a lot of times if, if we have different values, I might think I'm doing what, what I consider good and you consider annoying. That's. I mean, we've all had like parents come to mind as people who they, they want to help you, and yet you're like, oh, I'm really annoyed.

Yeah.

How do you protect against something like that?

When you say protect, what do you mean, protect?

Maybe I try to help someone. I really annoy them. They're too polite to tell me, and I feel like I helped someone and I actually bothered them.

Oh, that's so interesting. What I find in my coaching and really in my life, although it sounds a little clinical, sometimes I say it to my friends, I will say, so how can I be most helpful? And I think what that does is it actually, first of all puts the onus on the other person to be responsible for him or herself to really think, oh, yeah, what would be helpful to me here? Like, seriously, what would be helpful? I think that's really important. And then the second is that it helps you not just jump in and do the thing that you think would be helpful, but to listen to them and hear what they think would be most helpful.

I'm glad you said that because that comes up a bunch of times in these interviews. That leadership is almost always. It's the other person's interest, the other person's view that's more important when you're trying to lead them. When you try, and I guess I don't know if helping someone is necessarily trying to lead them, but really putting the other person's interests first and trying to figure out how you can understand them before you start acting.

Yes, I think that's true. And even so, that's a good question. How can I be most helpful? But then also I think in general, stepping back and reflecting. So what I hear you saying is, I'm trying to think of a good example. It's hard to do off the top of my head, but. So maybe even what I hear you say is you're having a frustrating time and you don't quite know how to network.

That's what you say to the person.

Yeah, that's, you know, and is that about right? And they'd say, yeah, that's right. And then you could say, great. So what comes to my mind is I could actually give you a recipe for how best to network. That might be something that'd be useful. Or would you rather talk out what you think are the right ideas and help me respond to them? Or is there another thing that I could do to be helpful people to you? Right, so it's just like just a pause. By the way, pausing is always a good idea. Right. Rather than just rushing in and doing what you think is the right thing, impulsively for us to always have the power and the space and the ability to give ourselves the space to put a little pause between impulse and action, then we can reflect on what's going on. We can be in better communication and check in with the other person. We can read the room better. Just slowing down helps us do that. And phrasing, you know, verbalizing, articulating what we think is going on.

Man, everybody, I'm like, rewind this and listen to this a few times. This is like a high level, you know, personalized, but high level. Really great coaching in My experience, great coaching stuff. Ask the other person, their interests first, after you. After you help them check in to make sure, like, do I understand you? Right. Did this work out for you to pause to. Like, if people just did that.

Yeah. It would be different, right? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I certainly like people doing that with me. I certainly like people asking me what's important to me first and checking with me afterward of how things went. And. Yeah, not like, but you know, pausing, taking their time.

Yes.

All right, done. Let's move on to the wait. Let's keep delivering value.

Well, I. I'm wondering, did we thoroughly talk about the Marshalls with 100? Because I do. I did want to kind of go back to say that it is really has been a pivotal experience being with that community and also being in the presence of Marshall. And I guess I would say I've learned a lot from Marshall. And maybe so one other piece of value I will deliver is his daily questions, which, you know, Marshall has sort of popularized this idea of asking yourself a set of questions every day and you can do any way you want. You can do it every day, you can do it every week, whatever you want to find to make sure that you're staying accountable to the things that you want to stay accountable to. Because I think part of what I think a lot about, from the point of view of coaching, what I just said, Josh, I think is valuable, this notion of checking in with the other person, of pausing, of reading the room, I think that's valuable. Now, what's in the way people doing it? Well, people are reactive. People don't listen, people don't make time. People don't think it's maybe important or valuable now, I don't know. I mean, it's really up to you to think about what will be in the way of those things. And then it's helpful to begin to practice your own accountability system to be able to do whatever it is you said you wanted. Right. So whether it's to be, you know, like a better coach or a better helpmate, but also to be helped better, you know, if you are looking for a job, there are some basic practices that if you're not doing, you're probably like denying yourself, like the networking process, like working on it like a job every single day in a certain way, if you're trying to be a better leader and you've decided that part of what you want to do is, and I think this is a very good leadership practice, is to be able to show help people define progress for Themselves. People, you know, they always want purpose and meaning. Progress provides purpose and meaning, but it's hard to make progress on large projects. So one way to think about that is as a leader, to encourage people to think about what are small milestones and small progressive wins that you can declare victory on throughout the project to help them be able to sort of see their own progress. Well, you as a leader. Sorry, should I keep going?

Is that where the questions come in? The questions are a way of checking your progress. Are they the milestones?

Well, I was going to say. So as a leader, if you aren't naturally attuned to that, you might recognize I need to help my people find progress every day or every week. So a question you could ask yourself every day is, did I help the people on my team define and celebrate success or progress for themselves and it's a yes or a no. And if on a Monday it's a no, that's all right, and on a Tuesday it's a no, that's all right. But if it's on a Wednesday, it's a no and it keeps being no. You might want to check in and see, have I made time to help them, you know, kind of define progress for themselves, or do I really think it's that important? Maybe I don't think it's that important or what's getting in the way. So the daily questions help you just realize, am I doing the things that I said were important to me and if I'm not, what's getting in the way? And I think that's very powerful as a process.

So it's a measure of accountability. It's something in between. Out in Silicon Valley, there's all these people who want to measure absolutely everything they do. And so it's not quite as intense as that. Because we're not all nerds. Well, I am. Maybe you are, but not everyone listening is. And so this is like something like that, but not so intense. But it's a wake up call if you need it.

A reminder. Think of it as a daily reminder.

Now I, you know me with my sidchas. Have I talked about sidchas?

No, what's that?

All right, so people listening, they might have heard this before, but a SIDCHA is my acronym for Self Imposed Daily Challenging Healthy Activity.

Yes, you have told me about that. That's fantastic. Like your, what's it called?

Burpees.

Burpees. Fosu. No, burpees.

So I don't ask myself, did I do my burpees today? Because I've done them every day since December 2011. And I don't ask myself, have I written a blog post? Because I just to me, the things that are essential. I guess when there's something in my life that I'm not sure about, if I realize this is something important, I just rather systematize it and never think about it. So I get the value of the thing without the mental tax of like, should I take the stairs or take the elevator? I just take the stairs.

Yeah. Yep. I'm the same way about things are important to me in my life.

Yeah. It's just like, it's just helpful that.

You don't have to think about it.

Exactly. I got that from David Allen from Getting Things Done. He was like, it's all about mental freedom. That's what it's really about. And I feel like the questions are kind of both a sidcha and a check on other sidchas.

Yes. I think that's a great way to put it if you know what sidcha is.

Yeah. If you're into sidchas.

Yeah. I was going to say if you speak the language of Josh.

Yeah. Which I do.

Right. Thank goodness.

Feeling inspired? Do you like hearing others acting that you're not alone? Go to JoshuaSpodak.com podcast to hear other interviews. But even more valuable, join the growing community of people who care enough to act, not just talk. Read the list of people who have taken on personal challenges and then commit to one yourself. Don't be surprised if you end up loving it, changing more and finding people following you without you even trying. That's what happens when you improve your life by living by your values. Now the way that you're speaking, so clear, so like not no mystery. It's like it's very easy to understand and follow. So now I have to give you more praise because you're also on this. I was reading this thing in ink about the top 100 speakers of the of the year and there you were again.

Yeah.

Thank you. And so can I ask how that came about and what, what prompted that, if you don't mind sharing?

Well, I think that sometimes, you know, how do you get chosen as one of the top hundred speakers? I don't know. I do not know. I will tell you this. I work every day on my craft, on honing my craft, you know. And so I work hard at writing for Forbes and for some of my startup newsletter. I'm sorry, my VC newsletters about startups and for worth. I do speaking. I hope I'm a good Speaker. I try to be. I've also this year I have tried to be on more podcasts this year. And so I think all of that so called brand building or maybe higher profile has helped me get more on the radar screen. If people like it Inc.

So I hear this every day. You work on it every day. You're working on it at this moment. You worked on it yesterday. I think that's so important because people, man, people are like, why do you do it every day? What about take a break every now and then? I'm like, you act like I don't want to do it. You act like I don't like it. Yeah, you act like I don't see the value in it. And do you enjoy it? I mean, is the work ever slog or is it, I mean, obviously, I mean sometimes it probably is annoying, like your flight's canceled and you got to get to something and it's.

Yeah, I think sometimes the work is a slog. And I think that, you know, there are a couple of things that I particularly like, you know, don't love doing, especially as they relate to. Not like I love being with my clients no matter what. Like I love my client meetings always and forever. I love being helpful. I love being a coach. That's always fantastic. And I love speaking. And I even have come to really love writing. You know, I sort of sitting myself down and doing it can be a chore a little bit like just getting myself to do it. But once I'm there, I really love it because to me, writing is an opportunity to synthesize my thinking. And sometimes I don't love the changes in my calendar, my schedule, and that can be a little draining. And sometimes sitting down and writing report of some sort can be draining, of course. But yeah, I think your point is I think that I'm blessed beyond measure to have found work that I love and so I can truly say that I love what I do and have for years. So I put, I have no problem putting extra time they call discretionary time, but extra time into honing my craft, into reading more and more books and learning more and more about the things that are important to me. And I. And it makes me better. It just makes me better. And I think I do a good job efficiently learning and building good relationships. And then over time, as you know, as you get better, you have even more infrastructure and architecture to hang even more sophisticated and nuanced skills on. And I love that too. I love succeeding and achieving.

Now when you talk about nuance, that to me, makes it sound like there's an art to it, that you're an artist. Because I feel like. Or mastery, I guess, is a better word. As you master craft people, at the beginning, it's all black and white. And then as you master, you get more nuance and subtlety and you can get much more fine tuned. And so when I hear you, I'm hearing someone who's mastered her craft, you have to be humble. I know, but I was going to.

Say that's nice of you to say.

Now I'll do it to myself. Let the record show that she reads all these books. And when I was at your place, my book was on your shelf.

That's right, because I read the masters in the field, so. Like yours.

Oh, go on.

Like yours, Josh. Like your book. And also, yeah, I mean, I think also, you know, you shared with me, you've. In the past, as we've known each other, you've shared some great wisdom with me. And I do think that that has been part of. I think all of us help each other on our journey. And certainly you've been part of that as well.

Oh, well, thank you. The feeling is mutual. And now I'm going to throw something in here that it may sound greedy to others, but I think it's not going to be. I think it's going to be helping you as much as it helps me. You want to help people and you know, the goal of this podcast is to talk to people about their environmental values. Well, to share, you know, their leadership. If they're a leader person, they share their leadership stuff. If they're an environmental person, their environmental stuff. But I want to get increasingly influential people on the show because I believe that while it's great to influence one person at a time, if I can get like a Jay Z or Beyonce or like a Bill Clinton or something like that on, then, you know, originally I wanted to be the Martin Luther King of the environment or the Nelson Mandel of the environment. Not that I wanted to do it, but I felt like that's what is necessary. There's not a lot of leadership. A lot of people want to change their behavior and they're not. And that tells me leaders help create meaning and purpose like that. And so then I realized there are people with a lot bigger reach and a lot bigger influence than me. And I want to make, not myself, the Mandela of the environment, but I want to make them the Mandelas of the environment. So all these people with super bowl rings, because Philadelphia's in the Super Bowl. I'm from Philadelphia.

So are the Patriots. They're the Patriots and I'm from Boston.

Oh, well, let's see you on the plane. Yeah. And so all these people with like, you know, Grammys and Oscars and successful entrepreneurs and stuff like that, I want to get them on the show and have them take on challenges. And hopefully you will have an experience like this, too, of enjoying the challenge.

Yeah.

So I'm going to ask you in a second, invite you at your option to take on a challenge. But also I want to put to you that if you know people who are really big, influential people who would like to share their values and act on those values, to bring their whole crew in and help their people, you know, the people who they influence, be more influential and so forth, then I'd love to be put in touch with them. So if you know any, like, I don't know, Marshall's already been on. Yeah. Francis has already been on.

Yeah.

But that's what I put out, too. If you have time for a good deed or to help, That's a direction IQD's help in.

Well, that's fantastic. I appreciate your asking me that. I'm going to definitely think about it and I'm going to. My commitment, Josh, is I am going to find and figure out and think about at least one person who fits that description. And what I mean by that is I am positive that I know somebody in my network who fits that description that we can ask. So, yes, I promise you that I will figure out who's a good person to ask and we will make that ask together.

Okay.

How's that for commitment?

Sounds great. I couldn't ask for more, and I'm going to put in something here that I've said this to others as well, is that if you can use this as an excuse to reach someone outside your network that you needed an excuse for, then this is designed to make people to showcase the guest as a responsible, thoughtful, active leader who cares enough to act on what they care about.

I love it.

And so it's designed to make you and whoever influential and look good. So I hope it benefits you more. Let's have a contest to see. I want it to benefit you more. Let's see if you can outdo me.

In laying self interest is always the right answer. Good. Okay, Josh, thank you. That's great.

And then readers or listeners will get to hear how it all works out and hopefully they'll think they'll see, oh, I can do that, too. And they can Help people more totally, or be available to be helped more?

All of the above. That's great.

And please let me know how I can reciprocate as well.

Okay, thank you.

Now, talk about the environment. Let's talk about the environment. Is it something you care about? What about the environment? And if so, what?

So let me talk about what I care about because I've thought about this. Here's what I'm upset about, like, really upset about. Our food system is poisoned. Our food system is a disaster. And it's so upsetting. It's like it's sort of big farming and big meat and big poultry and it's killing us. And we've let this happen. And how do we let this happen? And also, I guess I just want to be clear about what's so profoundly broken. It's like pollution, of course, more pesticides, which should be illegal. And I understand that farms have no, like, large farms have no way to, you know, mass produce food without using tons of pesticide. And meanwhile we're eating it and it's totally. It's terrible. And then also, of course, you know, our fish are like poisoned with mercury and with other disgusting toxins.

Yeah, or just disappearing.

Yeah, or just disappearing. Absolutely. And finally. So it's all bad. And then finally the nutritional value of fruits and vegetables has just diminished profoundly. And so we're just not even getting the benefit of, you know, I'm a very healthy eater, as you know, and I love my vegetables. And I'm so just distraught at just knowing about the sort of the degradation of fruits and vegetables and kind of all of our food source. And so I've been. I'm not exactly sure where this leads me because it's not exactly the most important area of focus for me. But every time I think about it, my blood kind of boils. I used to belong to a csa, which I'm sure you know what that is. Community Sustained Agriculture.

Oh, man, do I love my csa.

Yeah, exactly. I love that, by the way. I love that because you're supporting small farms. And also I do believe the nutritional value of the soil. They sort of care more. And so you're getting more wholesome food. And it's super fun to like, learn about different things that you would never buy in the supermarket.

And don't forget, the most important thing is it tastes delicious.

It tastes delicious.

My farm, they've been doing it for 20 years. For 20 years. From a business perspective, what's successful for them is someone who's joined this year to do it again next year right away. Because they don't have to worry about where the money's gonna come from.

Paying the money in advance. Also, you're buying into the share and you're kind of your fortunes rise and fall along with other people and the farmer.

My point is that they don't have to worry. They're not thinking, is this gonna withstand a truck shipment across the country? How's it gonna look on the shelves next to whatever their number one thing, what gets people to sign up again? Is it delicious?

Right? Is it delicious?

Is it like variety? Those seem to be like, that's what their motivation is. And so they don't want to tear up the farm. They want to make delicious variety of foods.

Right? It's beautiful. And those farmers, when you meet them, they're so committed. It's so great.

I go every year. It's like one of the highlights of my summer is going to the potluck thing up at the farm. They have this bus that goes up from Chelsea and people show up and they bring store bought apple pie. I'm like, how do you bring store bought apple pie to this far?

I'm sitting there, People are busy. You have to understand, right? I go to the, they're doing their best.

I guess I could understand them. But I spend time with the people who bring the fresh stuff that they made themselves. And I go over to like the tomatillo plants and just like eat. I don't have time to think about why they're doing their store bought apple pie. I'm busy, like stuffing my face with cherry tomatoes that are like right off the vine.

Yeah, I know. That's the best thing.

I have to keep commenting on what you said. You said our food is poisonous. You know, people who know me know I eat the peels of citrus fruit, I eat the peels of bananas, I eat the fruit, if the peels of mango. And across the board, everyone's first response is, it's poisonous. Oh, they don't say it's poisonous. What about all the, what about all the pesticides? I'm like, my first thought is, of course I wash it. Like, I'm not an idiot. But then I'm also thinking, how is it their response to someone eating the peel of an orange? Which is the healthiest part?

I know.

How is our response, don't do that because keep the poison, don't eat the healthy stuff. How is it not why we stop? Stop the poisoning, right?

Stop the poisoning. Stop the poisoning. And it's one step at a Time. What I'm really encouraged by is a number of. There's something called crowd cow. Right. Which is now helping you buy meat in a farm friendly, sustainable way. There's one also for fish. I think that this move to. I think that some of the mass producers. What I mean by mass retailers, like a Walmart, I think, or like a Whole Foods, are beginning to make organic produce more affordable. So I think that we are now beginning to see some motion on this. And there's no question we have to do more, you know, and we have to sort of vote with our feet.

And our mouths.

And our mouths. Right. And our wallets, most importantly, our wallets. I've been thinking a lot more about how I spend my money.

This is something you care about. And you've certainly. I'm forcing myself not to go on because you've certainly triggered something. It's certainly tapped something in me. So at this point, I invite you, if at your option, to take on a personal challenge, to do something. So here's the things. It can't be something that you're already doing, although by all means, keep doing what you're doing. Something that you have to come up with it, not me.

Okay.

It doesn't have to solve everything overnight. So if you're thinking, well, if I do it, no one else does, what's the difference? Well, that's. I'm relaxing. That you don't have to solve the whole world's problems overnight. And it can't be telling other people what to do. It has to be you doing it yourself. And it has to move the needle in some measurable way. So awareness doesn't count. It's not. The environment reacts to the results of your behavior.

Yeah.

And then some people, by the time I talk to them like this, they. They've thought of something sometimes before the conversation began, and sometimes they haven't thought of something and we just have to talk it out. But you don't have to do anything at all. So would you like to take on a challenge?

Yes, I would like to take on a challenge. And I'm a little torn because I just wax so lyrical on my concerns about the food system. And I do really worry about the food system. So I guess I'm trying to figure out what would I actually do. You know, the only thing I can say is that I really recognize that will be helpful to me would be to recommit to buying more organic. And so that's hard to. When I say more organic, I think what I'm going to Commit to. This may sound small, but this is significant for me. I think this is significant that when I'm going to, when I buy produce, whether it's at the supermarket. Okay, two things. I'm going to make a bigger effort to go buy produce at farmers markets. So for me that's really hard, it's time consuming. And so I'm going to just challenge myself to do that. I'm going to say once a month, but the point is to make, make it part of my consciousness. Like, okay, don't forget you said you were going to go to farmers market. So for like a three month period, I'm going to really focus on farmers markets, as in, I'm going to try to get produce there. And the second thing is that when I'm in a regular supermarket or using FreshDirect or something, I'm going to again challenge myself to buy organic rather than buying conventional.

Okay.

So those are two small things that I'm going to do that I think are going to retune my attention to this problem that I really see.

Okay. So I want to. Something I want to mention is that what I find the big thing is not how big the first thing is, but does someone act?

Yeah.

And because over and over and I can't predict what will happen with you, but over and over doing something. See, people see there's this big thing that they want to do, but as long as there's a little thing that they're not doing yet, they can't get to that big thing.

Yes.

This is kind of like a log jam breaking for some people.

Yeah.

So I've learned that you start with leadership, but you got to get to management. So I find that making it a smart goal is very effective. And so you said more, you want to be more conscious. Can we quantify?

Right. I agree with you that typically a smart goal is effective, at least to make it measurable. And that's why I'm a little bit struggling. But I'm going to say that I'm going to challenge myself to make it to a farmer's market once per month for three months.

Okay.

But the second thing is this may not be as quantifiable as you want it to be, but for me, I know what this looks like when I buy conventional produce, especially in the top 15, that list of like the dirty dozen or whatever it's called. I'm just going to ask myself, challenge myself. Encourage. Encourage myself. That's the right word. I'm going to encourage myself to buy organic instead so those are the two things I'm going to do.

Okay. For the second one I want to try because we mentioned Marshall's questions.

Gave the questions. Yeah.

What? This just popped in my head. Could you make one of your daily questions? Did I get organic for the Dirty Dozen?

Josh, I'm just going to be honest with you. I'm not going to raise it to the level of a daily question, but I promise you I will. I guess for me, this is really about consciousness. And I promise you just this conversation has already raised it more to my consciousness. And I promise you that I'm going to sort of again commit to a three month period. And during the three month period, I'm going to really encourage myself to raise it in my consciousness. So you're going to have to trust me a little bit that I find that to be measurable.

Okay, so then. And you're the one who's. It's your life.

It's my life. Yeah, exactly.

So now I'm going to go to my calendar and I'm going to get out. I'm going to look at three months from now. Are you up for scheduling our next conversation?

Sure. You mean you want to schedule for three months from now? Yeah, let's schedule for four months from now so I have time to process it.

Okay. So today, January 28th. So May 28th is probably memorial Day weekend.

Probably.

Maybe. Well, I'm just looking around.

Maybe Friday, June 1st. Or if we can do a weekend that'd be even better. How about Saturday, June 2nd?

Okay, Saturday, June 2nd, same time. Turns out I have nothing scheduled six months from now.

Yeah.

Amazing is the same time. It's 3:30.

Perfect.

All right, so I will, after we hang up, then you'll get a calendar invitation.

Love it.

So I'm inclined to wrap up. Although before I wrap up, I'd like to ask, is there anything I didn't bring up that is worth bringing up?

No, I think that that is great. I think we did a good job covering many, many topics. I guess the only thing I want to exhort people to do is what you already suggested. Well, maybe two things. I'm going to challenge everybody listening to this. Encourage. I absolutely think you should practice your season of acts of service. Season of service. And let us know how that goes. And can I see how they can reach me? Do they know how that goes? Yeah, please.

I mean, I'll put the link in. But also let us know so you.

Can reach me@alyssa lisacohn.com. so that's a L I S A at a L I S a C O H N And let us both know how your season of acts of service or your season of service goes when you just do favors for people with no expectation of being paid back.

I wonder if I can say if.

Yeah, go ahead.

Because earlier we talked about coming to you to see if you could help them. Maybe we say first you got to say what you're going to. What you did first do an act.

Of service, then come to me and ask me for some help.

Yeah. So. Okay, cool. So now it's this web started by Marshall, who himself got it from, I guess, 2,500 years ago. Siddhartha Gautama and spreading it all around. Sure, I want to hear it. Also, I wonder who's going to be the first person to do the next hundred coaches.

I know. Funny, right?

Yeah. So Marshall will have grand coaches.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Give birth and great grand coaches. How many levels can go out?

That's right.

And you also preempted the next question I was going to ask. Is there any message for the listeners? But I'll just put it out there. Even though you just gave a message to the listeners, but is there another one if I ask more, I just always ask.

No, I think. I appreciate that. I think that's great.

All right, so then when we hang up, we're going to hang up for real because I want to give the listeners everything.

Great.

So. Well, we'll probably email between now and then to probably share a meal or something like that. Maybe I'll run into a Union Square farmers market.

Exactly. Yeah.

So we'll talk before then, but I'll also talk to you in a few months and we'll get to hear how the challenge went.

Love it. Fantastic. Josh, how fun is this? This is great.

I'm having a great time.

Good. Excellent.

Thank you. And I'll talk to you again soon.

Okay, sounds great. Bye. Thank you. Bye.

Alisa had clearly done a lot of stuff with food before in terms of buying local and buying non political. I read that she looked at this challenge as an opportunity for her to enjoy even more what she's doing to augment that. And you can, too. I hope that when you listen to it, you heard the joy in this. One of my big goals with this podcast is systemic change. And to change a system, you can't just change an element here or there. You have to work with the leverage points in this case or relevant here, is that it's changing beliefs and goals. If you used to see changing your diet or changing your shopping habits as a challenge or I hope that her example shows that these changes can be fun. I think that fun that she has here is totally compatible with her leadership style and her coaching style. In fact, it looks like that kind of fun augments her leadership style. Living by her values, Thinking about others and how she affects others and helping others. Did you feel inspired too? Then act. Go to JoshuaSpodak.com podcast and click to commit to your personal challenge so you can inspire others. Value means better and worse, and living by your values means living better by your values. You may struggle at first, but it's the hero's journey from living by others values to living by yours. People say that little things add up. I won't argue against it. But what I find counts is acting. Doing something, anything, starts that mindset shift from the debilitating others should act first or making excuses to the empowering I can make a difference and living by my values improves my life. I don't have to wait for others to act first. I'm looking for leaders, people who will bring what works here in this podcast to communities I haven't reached. Billions of people want to change their behavior. There's room for leadership, from personal leadership of just yourself to whatever scale you want. Start by acting and changing yourself. Go to JoshuaSpodak.com podcast and commit to your personal challenge.