083: Alisa Cohn, part2: Gurus are people too

Those of us who have really focused on achieving a certain kind of thing in the world. It's not easy. It's not easy. I think it looks easy from the outside. I think definitely an overnight success is 10 years in the making. And I just want to encourage everybody that nobody is born special. Everybody is born with capacity. It's really awesome and beautiful to look and see what your capacity is and to try to do things that are out of your comfort zone and that make you uncomfortable and make you nervous and to have commitments around. Try trying again. That, to me, is the theme for today.

Hi, this is Joshua Spodek and this is Leadership in the Environment. You're not the only one who cares about your impact enough to act. You're part of a global community undeterred by people saying if others don't change first, then what I do doesn't matter and other excuses. We've read the science. We can do this. This show is about personal responsibility, acting and improving your life by your values. As guest after guest says, the challenge was hard, but thank you for getting me to do it. I wish I had done it earlier. Listen on for leaders to inspire you, hear their struggles and then act. Go to JoshuaSpodak.com podcast to commit to a public, personal challenge of your own. You're not alone and you don't have to wait for others. In this podcast. I don't share easy success stories, even among accomplished leadership gurus behind the edited books and media profiles. They're human. Personally, I think we can learn more from them behind the glossy profiles than just from the glossy profiles, however produced and edited. We had fun. After meeting at the Union Square Farmers Market, which we met in the rain, which turned into bright sun. It was hot and humid when we were recording, but we were swimming in what we got there. Tomatoes, cherry tomatoes, zucchini, basil, collards, chard. And I just made a batch of my famous no packaging vegetable stew with Great Northern beans. So we were about to eat. I read that she loved the experience, which wasn't new to her as it had been to me, that is the shopping for vegetables because she'd done a CSA when she was up in Boston, as she describes. But the big thing is that she took on that challenge last time and wasn't able to get through it nearly as much as she wanted to. So we're going to hear about a challenge and how someone handles not living up to their expectations and and what they do about it. Spoiler alert. She doesn't give up. Welcome to the leadership in the environment podcast. This is Joshua Sporak. I'm here with Alyssa Cohn. How are you doing?

Hi, Josh. I'm fantastic listeners.

Can't hear the smile that was on your face. And so I want to talk to you about your challenge, because a lot of people are listening, and they just heard the other one. They don't know that months have passed since we recorded the first conversation. But. But we just went to the Union Square Farmer's Market.

Yes.

And let's talk about that experience, because. Okay. I think I don't have to ask the question because it looks like you have stuff to say.

Well, first of all, I want to say I'm sitting here in your minimalist apartment, which is super fun, and we've already explored the intricacies of your kettlebell collection, which we share a passion for kettlebells. So I first want to say that. Second of all, I want to say it was raining today. Pouring, Pouring rain here in New York City. And I was all like, oh, my hair. I don't want to go to the Union Square Farmers Market. And Josh so beautifully and elegantly didn't force me to go, didn't push me to go, but continued to offer the opportunity for me to go, as in, well, I'm going to go, but we can meet later if you like. And then you were so nice about. I was like, okay, I'm going to come, but I'm going to be late. And you were so nice about that. So in the end, not only did it stop raining, which it did. My hair looks fantastic still. Thank you. And we. We had a great time at the farmer's market, and I got a ton of produce and tomatoes, which is tomato season.

And when you say ton of produce, are you gonna be able to carry that stuff home?

It's a good question. It's a good question, because when we.

Got there, I said to her, what I say to everyone, which is that I don't have it in me anymore. I go to the farmer's market and say to myself, I'm just gonna get one thing and whatever containers I have with me completely full when I leave. And you had no idea how much you were getting. Right?

Right. I thought I'd just get some tomatoes. It was fully full. And then I think also just to say, you're very chivalrous, and you put all my produce in your bag, Your satchel.

Yes, I carried a lot of.

So I didn't realize how much I was getting. And now here I am at your apartment being like, oh, God, how am I going to bring it all home? So it was a big adventure, let's put it that way.

Yeah. And I know that all will be forgiven when you're eating the stuff because I think it's going to be more delicious.

It's fantastic. Yes, exactly. So that was a very good experience, especially as it relates to my challenge, which has to do with farmer's market.

Wow, what a brilliant segue you had there. So when we spoke before, the challenge was that you now you live in the Upper west side.

I do.

And I believe that the units farmers market is like the big one in.

It's the big one. Yeah.

And there are ones up there, right?

Yes, there are right by Lincoln center on Saturdays and then up by. Up a little bit further uptown on Columbus Ave. On Sundays. Not like I don't know where and when are the farmers markets.

So I'm actually curious now. So compared to what we were just visiting, what are those? Half the size. A quarter?

No. Yeah, a quarter the size.

So it's smaller.

Yeah. The one in Lincoln Center I would say is maybe literally a sixth or an eighth of the size.

Oh, I was hoping it was filling up that whole area between the buildings.

Yeah, not really, no.

So when they have like the ballroom dancing nights, that gets filled. Yes, but the vegetables don't fill it.

Well, they don't do it there. They do it across the street.

And so how far walk is it from your place to those places?

It is a 10 minute walk to Lincoln center and it's probably a 15 to 20 minute walk, the one further uptown on 86th Street.

So now I'm curious. Can you walk us through what happened? How did it go?

Yes. Thank you. So you and I spoke in April, as you may remember. And I want to say that on April 29, I was running and I fractured my foot.

Ouch.

I know, it was terrible. I pounded my foot in the wrong door and the wrong side of my foot as I was running and I was in a kind of a walking boot for about eight weeks. And then after that. Yeah. When I was walking around, I really wasn't supposed to walk on it for maybe up to 10 weeks. So just to say that it impeded a lot of my activities, including walking to the farmer's market. That's number one. Number two, I think. And so the answer is that the first time I went to a farmer's market all summer was wait for it today with you and Union Square. And I just want to say that I thought that was really interesting because I made the commitment to you that I was going to go to farmer's markets more often and I immediately did not that. And so I was thinking to myself, it's so interesting that I made that commitment and, and what's my relationship to commitment? As in was that really a goal? Was it something I was really committed to doing? Because the honest answer is I was not committed to doing it. And I was thinking to myself, how often do you think you're making a commitment to pretend to make a commitment and are you not really making a commitment? So I've been exploring as we've been gearing up for this podcast, as the days have gone by, I have been exploring that inside of myself and just recognizing that even though I am really much better and I've really worked a lot on my own around setting goals and achieving them and, and being serious about the goals and milestones that I say are important in life. Exactly. And certainly with other people there are still little corners of my experience which I am just not committed to. Or that I'll say, yeah, I'll say yes, but I mean no.

Now one of the things I say, I think I said this to you not too long ago today is that one of the a not goal of this podcast is to present something like all you have to do is this thing. It's really easy, anyone can do it. And cause I want people to experience what things are for people. And when I bring leaders on and you qualify, you are several objective world renowned resources have put you as like a top leader in the world. You have to be polite and anyone other than you would be like, yes, of course. And you're being very humble. But the LECA records show that it's out there.

Thank you for saying that.

And so people at home, they get to hear something that is like this is the non edited version. It's not like if you wrote a book about this experience, you'd cut this part out and say this is how to do it. But I think it's valuable for people to hear these people who are like top in the field gurus and stuff like that. They're also human. And that's what I'm bringing to people. And first I thank you because there's some people who are like this didn't go, I said it would and it didn't. I cannot share this, keep this hidden because that's not my Persona and I'm embarrassed and stuff like that. And however you feel you're here and you're sharing and so people at home can say, oh, it's not this easy thing, and I'm a failure for not doing it. Yeah, People who are really good at the stuff, it's a challenge for everyone, and I certainly don't share it enough. It's like only recently that I started realizing how little I've shared about the process. You know, I say I decided to avoid food packaging. And then I say, six months later, I started. The six months in between is, like, ridden with guilt and helplessness and feeling of, like, feeling awful.

Yeah.

And I talk about after the switch how awesome it is, but I haven't talked about how I've started to share about the feelings that I don't really like. And I think people connect with that more. I think it's actually more valuable for people to hear that. Well, not more, but just as valuable.

Well, I think it's just as valuable. And I hear you and I appreciate your sharing that. And I think you're absolutely right about the sort of difficult emotions that come with, you know, it being hard or you're not doing it right or whatever. And I think we all have that. But I guess I also want to say that, yes, I am a human, and all of us, no matter how, like, well renowned or whatever, are humans. And I think all of us have to be in touch with. I really believe this, like, to be in touch with your humanity. And I think that one of my most valuable, I think, experiences as a coach is that I walk my talk. And what that means is I have trouble and I fall down just like everybody else. And I'm really committed to getting back up when I fall down. But part of that has to also do. So I talked about commitment just now and setting a goal and achieving it. And do I really mean yes, or am I saying yes? Do I really mean no? One thing that I have totally transformed on that I really say yes, and I mean yes is just telling my truth and telling the truth for me, and it's not always pretty. And also I've been reading a lot and listening to a lot of podcasts about people who are quite successful, who are clear that it takes work and it doesn't always go as planned. And that, like, I think for me, my takeaway on that is that the key to life is try, try again. And I really mean that sincerely. You can see my face. It's sincere.

So you want to try again?

Yes, I want to try again. And I'm also asking myself, what if we could just wind back to what was the epicenter of the challenge. Like, what was the genesis of the challenge? Being more healthy.

The listeners who just listened to you say it, like an hour ago. Like, don't you remember?

Don't you remember? I know I don't remember. I don't remember either.

And partly it's because, you know, one of my big points on this is I refuse to tell people what to do.

Right. It's not your challenge. It's my challenge.

Yeah. And on top of that, I refuse for it to be for my reasons and so other reasons. I love hearing other people's reasons, but I don't really. It hasn't been the case that their reasons have become mine. I have my own reasons.

Right.

When you think about the environment, what do you think about?

I think what it was was it was supporting local farmers and sort of taking. Spending my money to support local farmers, probably, and to some extent, being, I think, healthier for the planet and choosing more organic. And I definitely tend to choose more organic when I go to the farmer's market. I think that's probably what it was about. And I still feel committed to putting my money where my mouth is, and I still feel committed to local farmers. We talked earlier about the csa. You know, when I was in Boston, when I lived in Boston, I was a member of the csa, and I loved it. And it felt so good to give your money to a farmer before the season and to have the farmer use your money and then to reap the benefit of that or sadly, you know, pay the penalty for that. When it wasn't a good season, it really felt like connected to the community. And there's a small. I think when you're using your money and going to the farmer's market, I think you're supporting that kind of experience and that ethos. So I think that's part of it. So do I want to go to the farmer's market? Yes. Will I have the opportunity? I'm not sure between now and. Because I'm going to be a way off the rest of the summer. But I think the other thing that comes up for me is what we did today, which is that you brought your own bags. And my commitment that I really want to make is, yes, I will go to the farmer's market at least once or twice between now and whatever the end of the summer is. And more importantly, I'll bring my own bags.

Okay. So I'm still curious about when you support local farms. Yeah, part of it. I heard you say there's a joy in keeping the money in the community. Yeah, I see a lot of benefit to the farmers here. So what difference does it make to you if you support farmers? I mean, you can get food without going to them, right? Is the food better or is it the connection to community?

Well, it goes without saying that like the food in the farmer's market is delicious and amazing and so that is better. So there's a benefit to me. It's less convenient. And so am I willing to pay for that? Am I willing to sort of handle my time on that convenience or take the extra time maybe? And also it's a fun experience. But what I really feel passionate about, I mean, first of all, again, it is great to get those tomatoes. Okay, that's beautiful. But what I really feel passionate about is I don't like the big boxification of our country. I don't like the big boxification of New York City. I really like kind of local flavor and local context and local idiosyncrasy. I really appreciate that. These, I think that these farmers, these local farmers are probably like, you know, in danger of being extinct. I think it makes our lives much better to have them and I want to use my money to support them. That's the thing that I really feel principled about.

One of the things that this makes me think of is, do you know how they feed children in school in France?

No.

It would be considered gourmet meals here. Yeah, it's all local stuff. The point is not that it's local. It's like fresh vegetables, fresh fruit, you know, there it's going to be French fresh cheeses. And because it's France, it's probably like local wines for the kids.

For the kids, for the six year old.

And they're on the face of it, kind of overdoing it there. Like if you have X amount of money for education, you know, is that the best way to spend it? And then now I look back at thinking like, first of all, what is more important than the health of the, of our children? I mean, it's really tough to find things more important than the health of our children. And when I was a kid in school one day I remember my friend came and he said, I saw them loading up boxes into the cafeteria. It said, grade D edible.

Yeah, yeah, that's what it said.

Like, why are kids unable to pay attention to class? There's so many things that I can't really go into. But if I forced to, I could talk about how to me it seems like, yes, serve kids food that is the freshest Most amazing stuff that you can make and have them grow up with that. I remember when I was in France, every time I met a French person at their home and they threw together salad, it was delicious.

Yeah.

I mean, way beyond anything I taste here. And it was just throwing it together. Maybe because they grew up that way.

Yeah.

With a certain aesthetic and it's not unusual for them.

Yeah.

And that's what I thought of when you were talking about local farms and things like.

That's so funny.

That's normal there. And here it's unusual.

Yes. And here it's unusual. Absolutely. Yes. And not only that, I mean, not to get too carried away on this topic, but even your point about the school lunch. I guess I would just say that there are things that we do that they don't have to be that way. So they've made airports increasingly quite lovely and comfortable and even cozy with a lot of electrical outlets and conveniences for people. I mean, the San Francisco airport is wonderful. And we still have these airports that are just industrial and yucky and ugly and not convenient. And I just ask myself, I point to the San Francisco airport and I'm like, you know, it could be better. And the same is true with so called institutional food. You know, it's like, why do we even have school lunches which are not wonderful, you know, and even you, I mean, I'm not sure what to say about the grade D edible situation, but if you just applied a little bit of know how and a little bit of reflection, you could make lunches, even at institutional level, at scale, quite attractive and lovely and delicious. And to me, that's more of a point of view around excellence and beauty and wonderfulness. Much more than. I mean, yes, maybe the kids would benefit more from that. Maybe they'd be able to pay attention more. I think that's probably true. But I think that also experience what excellence looks like in a variety of different ways. And that's important. I think that's important for its own sake.

Feeling inspired? Do you like hearing others acting that you're not alone? Go to JoshuaSpodak.com podcast to hear other interviews. But even more valuable, join the growing community of people who care enough to act, not just talk. Read the list of people who have taken on personal challenges and then commit to one yourself. Don't be surprised if you end up loving it, changing more and finding people following you without you even trying. That's what happens when you improve your life by living by your values. You're making me think of a Guy who's going to be on my podcast soon. Tony Hillary, I'm gonna send you links. So in 08, business fell apart for him. And he started with spare time. He started volunteering at some school in Harlem and kids loved him. He was just supporting kids. Across the street from the school was an empty lot, and he got permission from the city and turned it into Harlem Grown, which is. He calls it an urban farm. To me, it's like garden. And the kids from the school come across the street and they all grow kale and grow chard and grow that sort of thing.

That's so great.

And he says, what is it? We plant seeds and we grow healthy children.

Oh, it's beautiful.

Yeah. And he, like, the UN just sent a whole delegation to go check it out. They're bringing him out to Silicon Valley. This is just what I heard because I overheard when I was talking to him.

Yeah.

And they. Because they're like, we do innovation, but when we think innovation, all we think of is technology. And you're definitely innovating, but the technology is like planting seeds. That's not technology. So they want to learn from him.

Oh, that's amazing.

And so many people want to lead and they think they're like, I can't work on this environment stuff. I gotta get ahead.

Right.

And they're getting ahead, is following.

Yeah.

Complying and doing what the system wants them to do. To speak a little too glibly, but I hope everyone knows what I mean. I could say that more nuanced. And please, if you're misunderstanding me, like, there's a nuance there of like talking about the system and so forth, but he chose to do something that he cared about, and now he's nationally known figure.

Yeah.

And I'm hearing in you, I think getting the food is one thing, but, you know, my sister volunteers at the farmer's market that we were, and she lives in Queens. Oh, so she volunteers at the one there.

Oh, I didn't know that.

And she leads tours and she brings groups around so they learn what to get there.

Yeah.

And then she does it here. She wasn't there today. And then Tony does the stuff with his farm and it's north of Central park and something like within one mile, 60 fast food joints, zero places to.

Get what they have there. That area is very short on healthy food.

And I'm hearing that something like, you might want to do stuff like that.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's beautiful. I just want to add something else. You know, it's Interesting. Like, there's so much what you just said, the notion of following your curiosity and making white space in your life to follow your curiosity. It sounds like it kind of happened to him. But we can all find ways to make white space in our lives to then follow our curiosity. And that's great. And the second thing I'm hearing you say is what he actually did was he cared for the kids and then brought them to the urban garden or the. Whatever you're called.

First to say he'd never planted anything before that.

Right. But I just want to say that I am constantly. I think a lot about if I had endless free time and if I had a lot of resources. What I have this commitment and passion about is taking kids and helping them build the skills of collaboration and leadership at that age. There's a lot of ways to do that. One is like theater. And I'm on the board of this organization that supports children's theater in schools in New York, which otherwise wouldn't have theater. Also music. Also there's a lot of the movies about chess. Right. Play. You know, sort of the teacher who. Yeah, the teacher. No, no, the one where the teacher had them learn. Like took an inner city school and formed a chess team and they became the champions.

Yeah.

I'm trying to think of the name of the movie. I can't remember the name of the movie. But anyway, the point is that every time you get kids to work together around common purpose and having to work together and building something together and making mistakes and recovering from the mistakes and having dynamics together and not liking each other and having to make up and having to work together and then building something, like in this case, a garden is exactly it because you plant the kale and then the little shoots of kale come up and then over time you have kale and they have to all work together and plan. And also about that is like the law of the farm, literally the law of the farm, which is you can't. You have to understand that you've got to first plant the seeds and you've got to nourish the ground and you've got to water it. And then over time it becomes really tidy. And then over time it actually grows into something worth eating and that you cannot rush that process. All of that is valuable for kids. And if we were teaching our kids that, especially our at risk kids, that the world in their adulthood would be completely different.

That's what he's doing.

I love it. It's awesome.

I'm going to add a Little bit to that. Because when he tells it, some of the kids, like the chard grew and they brought the chard home and they loved it because all the stuff you.

Talked about, of course, and they grew it themselves.

So the next day he says, how was the chard? And they say, my mom threw it out. Because I think a grandparent would know. But there's a generation that just doesn't know how to do anything. It's a two way thing. Why there's only fast food there. Stores will sell what people buy. And so if they're not buying it, we've lost the skill set. So one of the reasons why I could have interviewed Tony up there. Cause I was up there a couple times and I've asked him to come down here. Cause I want to make him some stew. Oh yeah. Because I want to work with them and I do. Let the record show that there's my windowsill garden over there. And it's green.

Yes, it is green. It's fantastic.

And I could probably help them with planting stuff, but not really. But with the cooking I can help a bit. Because this stuff, the ingredients to this could come from the garden. But the stuff that didn't come from the garden, the legumes, well, you won't have the nutritional use nutritional yeast. And usually the sweet potatoes or the carrots or the beets. Most of those, like the legumes, can be shipped to your door.

Yeah.

And then they will be on your shelf. They can be on your shelf for a year. I don't know how long beans can stand on your shelf. Dried.

Long time.

Long time.

Yeah.

And sweet potatoes, maybe not as long as the dried beans, but definitely a long time.

Yeah.

And then the fresh vegetables, that's all you have to get, which they provide. And so I want to do. I haven't told you about my idea for a restaurant, which I'm not actually going to do, but to have a restaurant where we make these fresh vegetable, no packaging stews.

Love it.

And it's really easy to make. And I want to pitch to him. Not pitch, but hear his thoughts on making that my restaurant. And now I can help them with entrepreneurship and leadership, which I think I can add more value to.

That's great.

Yeah.

So I love that. I totally support that.

And then there'll be a place within his, within the mile of there that has fresh cooked vegetables, Harlem grown.

Totally. And that's very in right now. Very artisanal, very local.

Yeah, artisanal. Although I don't think of myself as a Hipster.

Well, here you go.

Well, I'm gonna think of myself as helping. I wanna pitch in because he's doing such an amazing thing that I wanna help with that. And when you talked about going to buy food, I heard that would be something to keep it in the community and so forth. But I'm hearing something else, that maybe it's like the next step afterward. Cause it's more commitment to do something bigger like that. But I couldn't help myself. I recommend going to Harlem Groen and check it out. Okay.

I wanna come with you.

Okay.

Okay. We'll do it together.

Although next time he's coming down here.

All right. Well, I'm sure we'll find a time.

So I try to avoid doing this, but let's make that part of the commitment. If that's not putting into you. You said it first that you would do it. So I'm giving you a gimme of just visiting Harlem Grown and meeting Tony.

Yes, I would love to. Is Tony there on a Saturday ever?

I have no idea.

So I have to. Before I make this commitment, I've got to check into it because I just.

We'll just go to Harlan Grown sometime.

Okay. That'd be great.

Okay.

Right. Without making a big commitment. Yes, yes, I'd love to do that.

So are you up for a third.

Conversation after we go to Hartlem Groen?

Well, I mean also for you to go to the farmer's markets. Because I think if I remember right, by the end of the summer you're going to go at least once to farmers markets.

At least once or twice more. And I'm going to bring my own bags.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so I'd love to bring people a third conversation of. We could leave it at. I didn't go at all. And. Except I did just before, you know, an hour, maybe two hours ago. Yeah, we could leave it at that.

Yeah.

But you did say try, try again. And you do sound like you're going to try, try again. And I'd love to bring them a third time and see how it goes after you go to a farmer's market on your own.

I love the way you ask. Sure, I will. Yes, let's do that.

Okay.

I'd rather have a third conversation after we go to Harlem Grown.

Okay.

But that might be just being honest. That might take a little time to organize, including next season.

Okay.

I'm thinking about my calendar for August and September. I'm just being mindful and serious about my commitments. I'd love to go to Harlem grom with you. And it might literally be in 2019.

Okay. And it's right around the corner from you because it's above 14th street, and that's the same neighborhood.

Exactly. For you. Not in New Yorkers. I live way uptown to Josh, so upstate. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's see. We'll talk again another time. Possibly in 2019. 20. 20. 2030.

Could be anytime. Yeah, yeah.

And after Harlem gone has turned into, like, this giant farm that you're like, iron it.

I was early in on Harlem. Groan. That's what I'm going to say.

I'd like to close with a couple questions. One is, is there anything I didn't think to ask that's worth bringing up? And the other is, is there any message you want to give direct to the listeners? Would you combine into one or two separate questions?

I'm just gonna take the second question. Is there anything that you didn't ask? I'm not worried about what you didn't ask, but I do have a message. My message is always, no kidding, try, try again. And also for everybody, that the way to try, try again is to really think about. To step back and think about what you actually want. Like, as in, what's your real purpose? And how are you going to adjust what you already did to try, try again. And are you going to try harder or different? Are you going to involve more people? And I really want to say that what I know to be true is that a lot of people think about anybody that they point to as a role model. Oh, it was easy for him or it's easy for her. And I think that those of us who have really focused on achieving a certain kind of thing in the world, it's not easy. It's not easy.

So it looks easy often from the outside.

I think it looks easy from the outside. I think, like, definitely an overnight success is 10 years in the making. And I just want to encourage everybody that nobody is born special. Everybody is born with capacity. And it's really awesome and beautiful to look and see what your capacity is and to try to do things that are out of your comfort zone and that make you uncomfortable and make you nervous and to have commitments around. Try trying again. That, to me, is the theme for today.

Is that why we've been laughing so much this afternoon, even though I'm, like, getting you to do. Involving having to do things?

Yeah.

I can't help but ask this question. You said to take a step back and think of what do I really want?

Yeah.

I think for a Lot of people take a step back and they say, what do I really want? It's really hard to answer that.

It's really hard to answer that.

So you face that in yourself, your clients, a lot.

Yeah.

Could you go a little bit more into that? Like, how can they figure out what they want? Yeah.

I'll give you an exercise. Here's the exercise. So commit to doing some morning writing. So every morning. Every morning for two weeks or so, maybe three, maybe one. But every morning for a period of time. Like the notion of like a daily practice.

Sid Cha.

Yeah, Sidha, daily practice. Write down on a piece of paper or open a new document in your computer and write down my best possible life three years in the future. Colon. And then write down the date three years in the future. The date is 2021. Yeah. August 4th, 2021. And then write down your age on that date. Okay. And then just start writing and think about the areas of your life that you'd like to explore. Think about your career, think about your finances, think about your romantic life, think about your health, your emotional well being, if you have children. Think about every aspect of your life and then just start writing and then do the same thing tomorrow. And here's what's important. Don't cut and paste from yesterday. Don't cut and paste anything from yesterday.

The point is the writing.

The point is the writing. Exactly. And generate that every day from scratch and common themes will emerge and you'll begin to get a sense of direction of your own North Star.

All right, well, I'm glad I asked you. I feel like there might be a page on your website where this is available.

No, but you think I should put one on? Maybe I will.

I think so.

Ok, I will. Good idea. And I'll make it downloadable.

Yes.

Okay.

And then everyone will go and they'll be like, alyssa gives me this great advice and this is a great place to go to. Yeah, I'll put the links up. But can you say how can people find out more about you and where can they learn things?

Thank you. So you can follow me on Twitter lyssacohn. I'm gonna spell my name A L I S a C O H N Lyssacon. Or my website, www.alyssacohn.com. no E's in any of my names and a L I s a c o h n.com and you can say hi to me there and I'd love to hear from everybody. And I will put that downloadable, best possible life activity.

Well, Alyssa, thank you very much. Thank you for coming over. And it's funny, you braved the rain.

And now it's like, sunny, beautiful, sunny day out. Thank you, Joshua, and your encouragement always and for your role modelship in your life.

So what she said was, it's raining out. Should we still do this? And I wrote back, I think I said, I'm going to be there anyway, so if you want to meet later, we can meet later. And she was like, I'm going to be there.

Yes. Thank you for that.

Anytime. And thank you very much.

Great.

Some guests opt not to take on a challenge at all. Some of them, they act because they know that the second conversation is going to hold them accountable. And I know a lot of listeners hold back from looking at their values and acting on them because they know the transition is going to be a challenge. Alyssa shares how it works for even accomplished, practiced leadership coaches. She allows herself to be vulnerable in public. That's very hard, but it's important to note that it doesn't end here. Leadership work never ends, which is part of its challenge when you're just starting, but also its great joy when you master it. We'll see you again for a third conversation, so we'll see you back again then. Did you feel inspired too? Then act. Go to JoshuaSpodak.com podcast and click to commit to your personal challenge so you can inspire others. Value means better and worse, and living by your values means living better by your values. You may struggle at first, but it's the hero's journey from living by others values to living by yours. People say that little things add up. I won't argue against it, but what I find counts is acting. Doing something, anything starts that mindset shift from the debilitating others should act first or making excuses to the empowering. I can make a difference and living by my values improves my life. I don't have to wait for others to act first. I'm looking for leaders, people who will bring what works here in this podcast to communities I haven't reached. Billions of people want to change their behavior. There's room for leadership, from personal leadership of just yourself to whatever scale you want. Start by acting and changing yourself. Go to JoshuaSpodek.com podcast and commit to your personal challenge.