123: GiaNina Paolantonio Has Millions of Followers. Here’s the Business Behind Them
In this episode of the From Sharp to Grown Up podcast, host Alisa Cohn interviews 20‑year‑old Giannina Paolantonio, a dancer, singer, actress, and TikTok/Instagram creator with millions of followers. Giannina recounts her early start on Broadway at age nine, her breakout on TikTok in 2020, and how she turned spontaneous filming into a diversified business that includes brand partnerships, paid dance‑class teaching, label‑sponsored music promotions, and a self‑organized global teaching tour. She explains the role of her parents as "momager" and manager, the informal yet disciplined content‑creation workflow (no tripod, constant phone filming, cleaning the lens), and the negotiation tactics she uses to protect her brand. The conversation also covers the mental‑health challenges of constant visibility, strategies for staying present and organized, misconceptions about influencer work, and advice for other creators on authenticity, saying no to misaligned deals, and building a supportive network. Giannina shares personal highs (first apartment, touring) and lows (depression at 18, losing friends), emphasizing self‑belief, family support, and the cut‑throat nature of the industry.
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This industry is so cutthroat that people will wake up one morning on a random Thursday and be like, nah, she seems like she's doing better than me, so like, I gotta go. Or there's people that wake up every morning that are like, I wanna gravitate towards that person because they're doing so well. They must be doing something right. They must be a good person. They must be genuine and authentic and love what they do, and they must surround themselves with good people. I wanna know who that person's friends with. Like, there's two different types of people in this world. You always wanna go with the second option. I always think, why wouldn't you wanna surround yourself with people that are doing great? Because they must be doing something right. They must be doing something right on the personal end as well. It's not all about what people say on Instagram at all.
Welcome back.
This is From Sharp to Grown Up.
My name is Alisa Cohn, and today I'm thrilled to welcome Giannina Paloantonio to the podcast. Giannina is a dancer, singer, actress, and content creator, and also a savvy entrepreneur who's built a multi-channel business around her creative work. Giannina started performing professionally at the age of 9. Where she landed her role in Matilda the Musical without any prior acting or singing experience. Since then, she's been in the reality TV show Dance Moms, in the movie The Greatest Showman, and has built an enormous following online with millions of followers. At just 20 years old, Giannina is spearheading a growing enterprise that includes brand partnerships, social content across platforms, and a global teaching tour. That she and her family developed and manage together. We talked about the business mechanics behind all of it, how she monetizes her audience without compromising authenticity, how she negotiates contracts and evaluates partnerships, and what it's like to run a business where she is both the product and the operator. We talked about how Giannina thinks about her brand overall and how she's learned to say no to deals that don't work for her. She talks about what it's like to work with her managers who are also her father and mother and the business skills she's built to help her lead this empire. We also cover how she makes the choices that she does to keep her platform wide-ranging and not getting stuck in a niche. Giannina's clarity and self-awareness at just 20 years old is striking and impressive, and this is a thoughtful look inside of what it means to be a creator and an entrepreneur. Please enjoy my incredible conversation with Giannina Palantonio.
Giannina, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you.
I'm so excited to be here.
I'm super intrigued to talk to you. You're a Jersey girl. I'm in Montclair, New Jersey right now. You're originally from New Jersey, but right now you're in LA.
Right now I'm in California.
Yeah, got it. Well, as I was saying, you're a Jersey girl. You're a multi-talented American dancer, singer, actress, and content creator. You started your career at 9 years old. Oh my gosh, making your Broadway debut in Matilda the Musical. That is such an impressive and incredible, like, journey And now you are a creator and an entrepreneur. And so I guess I would ask you, just starting at 9 years old, how did you get that Broadway gig? Because if I'm not mistaken, you were like a dancer, not really an actor or a singer.
Yes. So I grew up as a competitive dancer. My mom's been a dance teacher for like 30 years, so I was born and bred right into it. And she tells me the story of this all the time because I was so young that it's hard to remember. But she told me that one of the other like dance moms that she knew at the time introduced her to casting networks. Which now everybody's on. And she was like, oh yeah, there's an audition for Matilda. And my mom was like, oh, like, I don't really think she sings. Like, I could always hold a tune my whole life, just having a dancer ear. And acting, I had never done anything prior. I was just a dancer, but very, very, very driven dancer. And so she took me to the open call audition. Just like anybody who wanted to go could have showed up. There was hundreds of people there. And after 6 callbacks of— one was dancing, one was singing, one was interacting— they were like, we would love to offer you the role on Broadway. And my mom was like, what? And I was so confused. Because I had never done anything prior other than dance gigs. And so I always say that I went straight from the couch to Broadway, literally just a dancer. And, uh, that changed my life. It taught me to be a professional every single day, always on, always doing the right thing. Taught me how to sing, taught me how to act, taught me how to do all of it. I took so many life tools away from that cuz I did the show for 2 years. So I learned a lot. I grew up with them. I grew up in that environment. That's another reason why I say I think I grew up so fast is because It was at that age where I was working every day and I loved it. And I still like love things like that. But it really came out of nowhere. That was not on the bucket list when I was 9, but that kind of like started it all.
I can imagine. I mean, it must have felt kind of like a natural thing to you, though. I mean, it's just you're 9 and you're like, la la la, and they just pick you and then you kind of jump into it. Was there any kind of trepidation at all or was there any even just a sense of like, wait a minute, this is unusual?
Not at all. I've always thrived a lot off of like pressure, under pressure, all the things. And so doing something that I'd never done prior whether that was being in the room auditioning and singing in front of a bunch of execs and things like that, I was so down for it. I loved it. I love a good challenge, and at that time I did as well. And so I was really, really, really excited to be doing things like that that weren't just dance. But then when I was able to dance, it was like comfortable, and so I was able to really shine in that aspect, which to this day I really do think being such a strong dancer at that age booked me that job. Because anyone knows when you're so young, you're moldable to all those things. That's why kids start gymnastics or tennis or dance. So young is because then that's when you like learn. Your brain is so fresh. And so I think they knew I had potential when it came to becoming a better singer and like kind of molding me to what they needed because I had such a strong background. And so I was so excited that they loved me for that and that they were like open to working with me.
Yeah, that totally makes sense. And I can imagine that, you know, when they saw you dancing, but also did you not have like sort of a confidence and a personality that probably came from dancing? They probably knew that you could be okay on stage and hold your own.
Yes, at that age and to this day, I have a very— I like to say loud personality. And I say that because people love to say loud and it means like obnoxious. I have a loud personality of very bright things. My parents and my friends and family, they've always said that I'm a very bright light, which I don't take lightly. I think that is such a compliment that I like will cherish forever. But as I've gotten older and the more like you learn things about yourself and you look back at things and reflect, I agree with that in a humble way because at that age too, I was so young to not even realize how my presence and aura was in a room. And I really do think the second that I got into an audition when I was younger, even now as well, I kind of light up because I love working under pressure, and auditions are scary, especially when you're young and you're doing something that you aren't always doing. And so at that age, I— the second I stepped in the room, like, shoulders back, I feel like the sun came out of my hair, you know what I mean? That's kind of how I felt. The adrenaline took over, especially from being a performer. It was like I was performing in front of a room of people I don't know. I was so excited.
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Well, you sort of then became a performer on this sort of all these new social media platforms. Like, you really started with Musical.ly, which got bought by TikTok, and that— you went viral, and that began your career as a creator. I guess what I'm curious about is like, when did it turn into this vision of like, I'm going to now build my career on social media, on these platforms?
Well, I started to gain a huge following in 2020 when TikTok really took off. My whole life though, I've had an Instagram since the year it came out. My mom, when I was 6 years old, was like, I'm going to make you an Instagram. My dad was so excited for that as well because they both had a name picked out. Like, my entire life has been documented on the internet since I was like 7 or 8. But then when it started to become bigger and bigger and bigger with Musical.ly and then with TikTok in 2020 is when I jumped on the app. As like a daily thing to do, not just for fun, because I saw everybody else doing it. And I, of course, coming off of the reality show I was on, had the heat. And so I was like, I gotta take advantage of it. It worked in my favor. And for the next like 2 and a half years, I was able to make money off of it and make it, you know, like a part-time job. And that's what helps me move to LA. And then from that, I just ran with it. To this day, I'm still running with it. I hope it never ends because my mom's very artistic. Whether it comes to making my flyers for me for my dance classes or building my room when she comes to visit, she's always been like that. And I've been, um, lucky to have that gift because she's given it to me. And so I love the editing, I love the filming, I love the process. And so it's not work to me, it's so fun for me. And, um, just from there I learned the avenue that you can go to bring the lifestyle and still make it monetized and like bring your everyday into something like that. And the best part for me is, yes, I love the everyday stuff, but my dancing and the other side of my singing and things like that, that is also something that my audience is excited to look at and see, which makes my life so much easier because the things that I truly love to do. I can just post my other side of my life that's work, and they also love it. And I still can monetize off making like a business. And it's pretty cool what it's become.
It's so cool. Walk us through— I want to hear about the business aspect, but like, you know, you are an influencer, a creator on TikTok and Instagram. And like, I've seen your content. I of course went down the rabbit hole on your content. You do a lot of the dance content, and then you do, you know, the makeup, a day in the life kind of content. Walk us through how you think about your shots, what inspires you, how you physically film it. Like, walk us through the details of what that's like. People are fascinated by that.
I wish I had details. Everyone asks me this and I'm like, I have no idea. There is no strategy. There is no plan. There is no, I'm gonna set aside 3 hours to film this unless it's a brand deal. Like, for my content that is mine and solely mine, whether it's me getting ready or it's me at a dance class, literally none of it, none of it is planned. There's no strategic way to do that on my end. I travel a lot. I'm currently on a world tour, so I just film everything I do anyway. I'm the friend that like teaches everybody how to take a million photos because I just love taking photos and videos. That's another reason why my job is so easy, because I'm already gonna take the video and photo, like, I might as well just post it. But yeah, even— I was at the beach yesterday and I came home with 50 new photos and videos, and I was able to make like a montage of how cute my day was. But none of that was intentional, you know? Like, none of it was actually intentional, but it just felt right. I have like a—
you're just living your life.
Yeah, it's just ingrained in my brain to film everything. That way I'm able to not just get stuck in a niche, which I feel like a lot of creators do this to themselves, and then years down the line it comes to an end and there's not a lot of longevity into it, which is because people can stuck in, oh, I'm a dancer, I'm just gonna post dance content. I love that, I love that for you, I love that for me, but you can't just do that because you have to pivot at some point, you know? And so I post my dance videos and stuff, but it's also fun to see me getting ready for my dance videos, or me getting dressed for my dance videos, or what I'm doing in the day before I have to head to dance. There's a way and an angle to go about it so that it's a well-rounded platform of you just singing and lip-syncing with your friends, or doing a cute dance video that's just like a TikTok dance But then I'm also going to do like real dance at the studio later. I've tried and I pride myself really hard on trying to make it a well-rounded platform. That way I don't get caught in a niche and I don't get stuck.
That's a very sophisticated way to think about it. But I have a very tactical question. You just literally pick up your phone and do this like anybody else taking a selfie, or do you have a more— I'm just doing this to show the video. Or is there a more sophisticated way to do it? Like you have a—
how do you do it? I hold my phone weird. Apparently everyone says I hold my phone weird when I'm even just like scrolling on it. Everyone has like the pinky dent. From like— yeah, holding your phone.
I hold my phone— show me this.
Okay, I film stuff because that's like the pinky dent, but I do that on both sides. I also have a jumbo phone for no reason. I feel like it's so heavy compared to anybody else's because it's the Pro Max. But I just film everything like this. But the one thing I will say I do every time I pick up my phone is I have to clean the camera because it's always smudged even if I don't touch it. So that's my one thing is I clean my camera, but then I'll just pull my phone out and that's about it.
But you do it like facing you selfie style, or you do it like this to show them this camera, the high quality camera?
So whenever I'm filming other things, I always do the normal camera like this way. I film like this, right? I'll never do 0.5 normally if I'm like filming a dance video or something like in my class because the quality isn't as good. So I'll film like this facing like normal. But if I'm doing like something where I'm trying to film myself, a lot of the times if I'm filming myself and it's like a day in the life video where I'm like there's different locations and stuff, I'd pick it, make it 0.5, and I go like that, you know what I mean? And I switch it. But other than that, if I'm doing like a selfie video, like just lip syncing or with my friends, I'll just kind of hold it like this. Spacing.
Hold it like that. Wow.
The hair lift. Right, right.
Exactly. I know you want the angle. I totally— I'm completely with you on that. I think that's fine. So you also don't have a camera crew following you?
No, I also don't own a tripod.
Oh my gosh, all these secrets you're spilling.
No tripod. Everyone gets a kick out of that. No tripod. I'll just like balance it on my tissue box or like stack up my setting sprays, or there's no tripod and nothing to hold my phone.
I love it. I mean, there's so much authenticity. I'm gonna get into that in a few minutes, but I actually would love to ask you what are the pieces that make up your business today? Like, you know, you've brand deals from TikTok and Instagram or whatnot. You have your dance classes that you teach. You probably are doing other kinds of things. Like, what are the different pieces that kind of bring revenue into that, create your overall business?
Well, of course, there's the dance class and the teaching aspect, which is the newer part of my job in the past year, just because I'm a new teacher. Yeah.
Tell everybody about that. Tell us about that, that part where you're a teacher.
Yeah, so I've obviously been a dancer for like 20 years. I just turned 20. I've been dancing since the day I was here, and I never thought I ever wanted to be a dance teacher, only because— or choreographer— because my mom is a dance teacher and I just grew up with her as my teacher. And so I never saw what she did and was like, no, like, I don't think that's for me. I love being like the center of attention on the stage and like the one performing. I don't think I would ever want to be the BTS. And I stuck with that heavy. I was like, I am going to stick to that. I don't want to be a teacher, even though people were like, why don't you teach? And I just was like, oh, I don't think it's for me. But about a year and a month ago, it's been a little over a year, I had a studio which was one of the biggest studios in LA right now, Millennium, and has been for so long. Millennium and Playground. I had Millennium reach out to me to try to sub a friend's class, and I was like, oh, I'm not really interested. And then they kept coming back, and it— by the third time, everyone around me was like, just say yes. Like, we're so over you saying no. Like, just say yes. So I was like, okay. But all my friends around me were like, we've been waiting for the day that you said yes. We all are so excited. And so I said yes, and from that day on it was a sold-out class. I had then had a slot like 3 days later for every single week. I'm still doing that. I teach tomorrow, every Wednesday. So that kind of took off, and from there the monetization standpoint of that, that I was able to turn into a whole business for me, was the working with labels and the working with artists to promote their songs and their albums and their EPs. Given I'm also on the music end and am releasing music this year and have been in that realm since I was a young girl. Having that now become part and work hand in hand is so gorgeous because I love that it worked out solely because, yes, I know the work, the dedication, and the business and the industry that the music is. I'm very well-rounded in the dance. But then also what people sometimes forget when I talk about this is that I also have the content creator portion of it, which is when labels do reach out for you to do a sound promo to an artist's new song. Over the years, my management, who is family my management has obviously kept ties and kept tabs on like who we worked with and all the things. And what's crazy is that when I started teaching, those labels would just directly reach out and be like, hey, like, we don't want you to do a sound promo, we want you to teach a dance class to the song, or we want the artist to come to the class. And so having that, all three worlds collide, I was like, this is crazy, this is crazy. And this is honestly a dream come true because it's so much more interactive, it's so much more fun for the community that I grew up and like had blood, sweat, and tears in my whole life. Because having the artist come to class and and working with those labels and having the labels make me book dancers for things. That is so awesome. And so we've been able to turn it into something like that, which has obviously made the business end so much bigger. So that's been my current life. That's currently why I'm on tour. My next stops are Europe. And so we've been doing this for a little bit now.
That is amazing. No, I know that you're on tour. What tour are you on? Like, what are you doing on tour?
So I'm on my own tour. So you know how artists go on tour for their album that they just put out or whatever the thing is? It's not something that a lot of people have done until, you know, recently, I would think, in the past few years because of social media. But I was able to put together my own tour all around the world to go to different countries and states and cities and teach, have like whole dance classes with artists, with labels, just by myself, at some of the most iconic studios all around the world, and meet a bunch of people from everywhere and like become so worldly. And be able to do this at such a young age was such an accomplishment that sometimes I have to like let process. But it all happened in literally the blink of an eye. And it definitely was not something that happened overnight because I've been in this industry for so long that it definitely was meant to happen when it was meant to happen. And it was a long time coming, but I feel like I blinked and all of a sudden I was like, oh, okay, so this is now taking over my life and consuming my everyday, which I can't complain. It's dance. It's what I've always wanted to do.
Yeah. Wow. There's so much in there. I want to double-click on when you said my management is family, right? So I know that you're a mom and maybe both your parents are pretty involved with your career. Is that who's managing you?
Yes, I do have management that is like a company that I work with as well. I have agents, of course. But if I'm going to be completely real, my entire life it has been my mom and my dad. My mom, like I said, is a dance teacher for however long, so many years. And so she's been around. When I grew up, she knew where to take me in New York and all the things, given I'm from Jersey. So we always were in New York. And so she's the one that was on casting networks finding auditions for me. But my dad is an IT guy for his entire life as well. And so he knows the business end. He knew exactly what to hop onto to grab my handle on everything, to grab my email and my website and all the things. They've had that on lock for years, which if I didn't have them, I'm not really sure where I would be right now because they've helped me through and just with so much. But yes, my dad is my manager. My mom is my momager. She always will be. She drives me everywhere that I need to go. She tags along. My dog will tag along. She also is always on the lookout for auditions and things. She is just as involved. But management-wise, who handles the brand deals, the labels, the calling the studios to book it, calling studios from London, emailing every single person— that is all my dad, Johnny.
That's amazing.
He is absolutely unreal at what he does. I have never met anyone, a manager or a management, that has ever done more for me than he has. For also for not being a manager, that's not what he does for a living. But I mean, now it is. I can tell you right now he will move into that space.
Yeah, it's so lovely to see you light up when you talk about your parents, and it doesn't feel like they pushed you in a direction you didn't want to go. It feels like you're all rolling in the same direction.
Yeah, my entire life I've never had like a set goal of like, oh, I want to do this. I've always had a million things, and they all land on different islands in my opinion. And so whichever one the boat takes me to first is the one that I'm going to end up on first, is kind of how I look at it. But I will end up touching upon all fall, but it's never in my hands. I always just leave it up to the world and the universe to tell me, simply because I truly do, and I've always believed that everything happens for a reason when it's supposed to happen. And so I was supposed to start on Broadway, but I was supposed to do this, that, and the other thing next. And I'll never take it for granted because everything I've done, I've loved, and I've learned so much from. I've learned that I loved it, or I learned that maybe this isn't what exactly I want to do for the rest of my life, but I definitely want to touch on it now, you know? Totally.
I think it's so fascinating the way you really talk about it. It's like organic, and it sounds like this tour came together a little bit also organically. Like you said, you didn't have a North Star, but like probably some things had to come together, like from your dad or from other suggestions from other people, and then it kind of like evolved. Can you tell us, like, break down how this tour happened? Because it is very unusual.
Yes, so the tour happened— it wasn't planned at all, wasn't supposed to happen at all. When I started teaching last July, I think, like a year ago, uh, July, August, and so I want to say 6 or 7 months into teaching, it started to build. Everything started to build from the second I started teaching, but it really started to build to the point where I had different countries and different states reaching out over email wanting me to fly me in and teach, which was bizarre to me. I forget social media is a bunch of eyes from all over the world. I forget that sometimes, and I'm like, I can't believe you know who I am, that's crazy. And it always will be. So they started reaching out asking, oh, like, we want to fly her out to teach in London or in Belgium or in Texas. And so my dad, of course course was like, yes, let's set it up. And so he started emailing and doing all the business things and obviously asking my permission if I wanted to and what the rates are and all the things like that. Once again, when you don't do something and you've never done something before, like, they ask you what your rate is, or they ask you what hotel you want to stay at, or they ask you what you want to teach, and you're like, wait, hold on, I've never done this before, like, I have to think about this, like, let me talk to my parents, like, I have no idea. Or they say, let me talk to my team, which is my parents. And so all of those had to come together and we had to like make decisions. They were obviously big decisions and they were scary, but we did it. We managed. And I made an Instagram post of 19 slides and the front cover said— it was a picture, like a dance picture of me, and it said like Giannina's World Tour for 2025. My mom is a— I like to call her the best flyer maker ever. She does all my flyers for me. She went to school for graphic design and so she's so good at everything. And so she made all of my flyers, but these were flyers For every single slide was a different state or country I was going to, and so there was 19 of them. My parents were so on me about posting it. They were like, post it, post it, like, this is not normal. You are only 19 at the time, and this is gonna turn into something crazy. Like, post it so people see where you're going. I posted it at like 7 PM on a random Tuesday night, and within an hour my dad called me and he was like, I've gotten 50 emails from all around the world of people wanting you to come and teach. This is crazy. And over those next 3 days, it got more and more and more. Like, I would say probably hundreds of emails. And from there my dad was like, okay, we have to take that post and make it a bigger thing. And so then we started to kind of get together and make it a whole entire tour. And I was like, this is crazy. And so it started in April of this past year. I started it in Australia. I was in Australia for like 2 weeks, and the second I came home it hasn't stopped since. I've been on the road for so long and I love it. It's definitely hard at times, obviously you're not home, but it's been— what a ride. But yeah, so we made another post about all of the international stops and then all the in-state stops, and it's just become this entire thing. But that was not supposed to happen. We were just posting it to let people know where I was going, and then it turned into an entire tour simply because people saw that I was going to travel.
Yeah, I mean, to say the obvious, it's so entrepreneurial. It sounds like you had like a few tentpole things, like we'll do this and this and this, and then you had your 19 slides saying I'll be here, be here, be here. And then it sounds like once you kind of announced your tour, quote unquote, people almost validated your tour by saying, oh, well, you're nearby, come and teach at our studio. While you're nearby, do this thing or in-person thing. And that's how it turned into a more robust world tour. But it's like you kind of threw it out there and then the market, if you will, spoke to you.
Yeah, they definitely grabbed it the second they saw it because I didn't think it was anything crazy at all. I was just like, oh yeah, I'm gonna travel a few times, but they literally latched onto it and were like not letting it go. I was like, okay, then this is my life. Let's go on tour.
Let's go on tour. Amazing. And you said this, and you're processing this, and I really want to like double-click on that. You're 20 years old now, you're on tour, you've been in the light, you know, since you were 9 years old. I would love to hear what's your inner journey on that, and in particular, what's it like for you to process all this attention, all this brouhaha, and doing a world tour quote-unquote, as a dancer.
Yeah, for me it's very hard to process still, just like my— what my entire life has been. My parents always say this, they're like, sometimes you forget that you're Giannina. Like, sometimes you forget that you are this center of attention. Like, young girls and boys like look up to you and idolize you and just want to fly to LA just to meet you or just take your class. And they're like, sometimes you forget that you change so many lives. Lives. And it's true, I really do, because I am such a normal person and I've always been. But even with the limelight being so in your face for so long, it's never changed my perspective on like who I am as a person. I still on the daily want to go get a matcha. I love Jelly Cats. I just bought 3. Like, if I could every day just go get a matcha, go to the beach, and buy Jelly Cats, I would. Like, I'm so still normal, which I still love about myself, because sometimes people let it get to them, especially people in LA. And I do think a lot of that comes from the way I was raised and who raised me and the people I surround myself with. Those are things that if I took away, I don't know, like, you are how you were raised. And I appreciate, and I tell my parents all the time, that I was just so lucky to have them in my life. But letting that affect and how I process and all the things as I get older, and the more you like analyze yourself and start to focus on yourself and reflect and all of the things, definitely can get into a deep dark hole of thoughts for sure, as it would be for anybody. But I've learned that you Ups and downs.
I'm going to interrupt you one second. When you say you would be in a deep dark hole of thoughts, like, what kinds of thoughts would those deep dark ones be?
A lot of the time for me, I get overwhelmed very easily. Not overwhelmed in the sense of, oh my God, I'm at the end of my dance class and I'm saying goodbye to these 100 people and I have to take a picture with all of them, or I have to say bye and thank you, I love you, hugs. I love doing that. Like, I love meeting everybody. That is not overwhelming at all. It's not like a public thing. Like, it's more of I lay in my bed at night, or I'm I'm on the plane and I get a text that I have this, this, this, this, and this to do, and I only have 3 days to do it amongst I still have to come to LA and teach, I still have to have writing sessions, I still like probably should get my nails done because I'm gonna leave again and they don't look great, or I would love to get a massage because I'm a dancer and I dance 24/7 and my body hurts amongst the things that I'm trying to like keep myself well, like my well-being. Because they always say when you dress good and you look good, you feel good. It's the same way as if your house is clean, you feel better. For me, it's— I struggle with that. I get overwhelmed with. I have to do all of these things for work, but I don't really have a lot of time to make my bed or do all my laundry and put it away or do the dishes and put them away or maybe cook a meal at home. Or a big one on putting my laundry away— can't do that one, struggle with that one because my suitcase is always full and I have no energy when I come home from doing all that to like put it away. Those are the things that I get overwhelmed with. Also just the fact that I just turned 20, I want to like go out and go to the beach and, you know, just be a— I like to call myself a kid still, like, just be a kid, just be a person. And so I get overwhelmed with things like that, less about work, more about how am I gonna make it all fit and all timing work out. And that's what I mean by deep charcoal of thoughts, is because I stress myself out to the point where I think about the things that I have to do and I shut down. That's something I'm trying to work on, which I think I've gotten much better with because of this tour. It pushes you so hard into so many different directions that you just have to figure it out, and at the end of the day, everything will work out the way it's supposed to. And so I just always say, you know what, that pile of laundry is gonna sit there for 2 weeks and I will get back to it when I get back. You know what I mean? The flowers that are dying in my living room, I should probably should have thrown those out before I left, and now my apartment's gonna smell funny when I get back. But I'm just a girl and that's, you know, I'm gonna have to figure it out. You know what I mean? It's those things. It's the normal everyday things that I struggle with, but we're getting there.
I think that's so powerful and just such a reminder. Yep, we're all just like humans and have our own, you things that have stuck in our heads. Like, I wouldn't— I don't worry so much about like that laundry coming out so much. I have other things that I obsess over. So I think everyone has their own things that they obsess over. But I am curious, like, considering that, you know, we're talking to entrepreneurs and coaches and other ambitious professionals, what advice do you have for people to get over their own deep dark thoughts when that comes up for them from overwhelm? Because we all deal with overwhelm.
I really just have been telling my telling myself recently, I, I need to like stop and stay present because I stress out so hard about everything. I overthink everything, whether it's the way someone said hi to me or the way they texted me, whatever it may be. I stress about everything, and I don't let it show a lot of the time, but sometimes I can't help it and it does show. And so I just have been telling myself I need to stay more present and do things every day that are easy tasks that I can do every day, whether that's like writing in my planner or writing in my journal, 2 things I'm grateful for, what I'm excited for tomorrow, like just things like that. Because those are the little things that I can do that are on schedule every day that I can bring with me wherever I am. Because I think for me, I love being on a schedule, and my entire life is different every day, which is the worst thing that you could ever think for someone who loves to be on a schedule, you know? And so yes, I'm very spontaneous, I'm super go with the flow, but like I do really love a schedule. I have a big whiteboard or chalkboard board that I write my schedule on every single week. And I don't mind that it's different every day, but I need to know it. And so just the little things that I can have control of even when I'm on the road are the things that make me feel better, like writing in my journal or just little things like that, like little simple tasks.
Yeah, I think getting something done in a little bit that is like satisfying to you is always helpful and grounding for everybody, and it gives you perspective. Yeah, and it gives you also a sense of progress and a sense of control. It sounds like it's important for you to feel like you have a semblance of control over your schedule and your routine.
I'm not a control freak, but like, I'm definitely on the verge of being that sometimes, in, in the right situation. In others, I'm like, where am I going?
What am I doing?
Just tell me what to pack. But some instances when I'm really like on my own and I don't have help around me, I'm also really bad at asking for help. But I've gotten better. I need to be in control of only certain things, and it's really funny what I choose to be in control of.
Yeah, what do you choose to be in control of in those cases?
Like what I'm packing, or I don't like like when other people do my laundry for me. Like when I'm home, I don't like when my mom does my laundry. Just, I like having that control. I like the control of packing my own suitcase or picking out my own outfits. I just don't like when that's done for me, even though it's a simple task that would relieve so much stress if, if I just had let her do it because she wanted to do it. But she looks at me and she's like, why do you care? And I'm like, I just care so much. I don't know, it's little things.
Yeah, well, it is funny what we sort of care about, what we decide we care about. But One thing that you talked about is kind of like if someone texts you funny, you know, or like if someone looks at you funny and it stresses you out, and that's also normal. But you're exposed to, gosh, 4 million followers on TikTok alone, to say nothing of like all the other, you know, cumulative followers you have. I mean, what's that like when you're subject to criticism or mean comments or that in such a public, you know, with, with such a scaled view?
Yeah, so, you know, that's the difference is because I don't know these people personally. A lot of them like want to say crazy things, don't even have a profile picture. And so I love to say like, I've seen this all over social media, but like this is my page and like my home. And I kind of think about it like, would I ever let anybody into my apartment that said anything like that or acted like that? No, because it's my home, it's my space, and you're not allowed in it if you're gonna act like that. That's how I think of my, my, my socials is like, you can't come on my page and talk like that and say things like that in my or make videos about me like that. It's my page, not yours, kind of a thing. Like, you're not allowed in this space. And so that's why there's a block button and a comment filter button. But yeah, I've been so exposed to everyone's opinion because everyone's entitled to their own, but I've been so exposed to so many opinions my entire life that I really could care less about people that I don't know. I value the people that I do know. I value their opinion, of course, because they're in my life because I chose for them to be in my life, and I obviously value them as well. So so I would love for them to have only good things to say about me. So the people that are in my life are the ones that I would stress out about. If like a text sounded funny or there was a period at the end of the sentence, like that would make me nervous, you know.
It's such a generational thing. It's so hilarious. I totally get that, up here at the end of a text. But I really love— I mean, you're so enlightened, my God. Like the idea that, you know, you are not going to really listen to other people who are frankly strangers, and that really what's important is like your IRL connections.
I was gonna say even thinking of the way of people that are in your life, but like not in your close circle, but that you have to see at work or something like that, or you see at the coffee shop, whatever it may be. I also always try to say when I see comments as well is like, oh, I might know them in real life and they're commenting things like that on a video, or they're acting like that, but like, would I take advice from that person? Because if I wouldn't take advice from that person, why do I care what they're saying about me? Because we are two different people, obviously, on two different— you know what I mean? Not two different levels, but we have different maybe morals or things like that. Like if I I wouldn't take advice from that person that's commenting things like that. Like, why would I even listen to it? Why would I let it affect me?
So enlightened. I really have to tip my hat. It's so enlightened. But on the topic of your people in real life, how do you maintain your friendships and connections with such an intense schedule?
It's actually been a very new thing for me to figure that out. In April, like, started, and it just has gotten crazier and crazier. Like, I just got back from a 7-day trip, but I taught 9 times. I was doing a news interview, I was seeing a friend's show, I was just trying to go to the beach one day. It was a lot only in 7 days. I left and my mom was like, I have to sleep for 3 days now, you made me so tired. But just balancing all of that has been something that I'm trying to learn, whether it's I have to balance my in-person work of teaching, but then I also have to figure out when I'm gonna make up the combos, but then I also want to see my friends, and I also want to see my boyfriend, and I also want to go home and see my family, and I also need to just clean my apartment. There's a lot of things for my time to be split up into. But also, you have to be respectful of others' time as well, because everyone else has so much going on in their life, especially in LA. Everyone's always on the run. And so having schedules align is something that I laugh at now, because I used to say like, oh, do you want to have a playdate later after school? And it was like, yeah, let's do it. Now as an adult, it's like, oh, when can I see you? 3 weeks from now? Let's put it on the schedule. You know what I mean? It's such a real thing. Like, I can see you in September but not in August. I'm sorry. Like, it's just funny things like that I just never thought that I would be a part of as a 9-year-old, but now I'm getting used to it. I'm trying. I also am now at the age where I've learned that you also have to make time for just yourself to do the things that you want to do. You can't just like let everybody else's opinions and, oh, I want to see you, oh, I want to see you, oh, I want to do this— you can't let anyone push you into doing things like that because you're only you and you only have one life. And if you're gonna let people push you into things you don't want to do just because you're afraid of saying no, you're not gonna love your life anymore. And so it's totally okay to text them and be like, hey, like, I actually really am not in the mood to hang out, or hey, I can't, I have work, or whatever it may be. You don't have to make it all work all the time. I think just trying to, within the chaos, only say yes to things and only plan the things that make you happy while still trying to be respectful of everybody else's time. Else they respect you is something that you learn in your 20s, and I'm getting there.
Yeah, I mean, you learn in your 20s, but again, like, in such a public way. It's very interesting, and it must be very challenging because there's also this aspect of, like, everyone wants a piece of you.
Yeah, for sure. Sometimes it does feel like that. It sounds, like, kind of off-putting even saying like that, but it's true. Sometimes— I'm not even talking, like, normal friendships, I'm talking even business stuff— like, sometimes everybody wants a piece, and you're like, I can only be in so many places at once and you don't want them to think something like, oh, you turned it down because— but no, it's because my heart is really pulling me to this, or I had this planned first, and so I really apologize, but I hope we can make it work in the future, or something like that. But that also relays into real life as well. Sometimes you feel like you're being pulled in 8 different directions. If you haven't seen some of your friends in a while, it's like, oh, I would love to see you all maybe at the same time, you know?
Yeah, finding ways to do that. When, you know, you talk about business, of course, and business relationships, what are some some of the skills that you feel like you've learned in the past few years that maybe surprised you or you didn't know you were going to have to learn those skills? You're surprisingly good at— what are some business skills that crossed your mind?
Well, I definitely now know how to like negotiate things. Obviously, if someone wants you to do something, you're like, oh, well, I would rather do this tit for tat. It's very 50/50 of someone bringing you on to do something. But if you're going to bring me on, I'm going to do the thing that I do best or do what I love. Like, we might have to like change that a little bit. So negotiating anything along the sorts of business-wise, but also negotiating rates and the monetization of it. It's always approved by me, and if not approved by me, made up by me, or like my team obviously knows my rates. But for anything across the board, absolutely anything dance-related, content-related, whatever it may be, I've learned to negotiate. And I think over the years it's been fun to see and learn and not be so heartbroken having to turn something down because it doesn't fit your brand. There are certain brands I will work with and there are certain brands that I won't work with, but that's because my image is my image, and like, it doesn't always fit everybody's mold. And it's okay to turn things down, to withhold the right image for you. You never want to be someone you're not or promote something that you would never do in real life. Yes, every content creator can say that they've been paid to promote something or a pair of jeans that maybe didn't fit them perfectly, but the campaign was that or something. Like, okay, everyone's been there, everyone's been there. Everyone also needs to make money, but I would never promote something that I truly was like, I would never use this, or Yeah, no, like it actually doesn't work. Like, I also just think that my image and brand isn't very like product, you know, it's not always product use, it's everyday lifestyle use. And so it would always be like useful or helpful or something that's very Gen Z, that's something that everyone's wearing or using. I try to keep it within the right realm. And so I've learned also to say no to things.
I think it's such a powerful thing to realize that you have to say no to some things because you're really focused, you're honing your you have, it sounds like a strong sense of your brand. Is there a time that you might have been offered like a lot of money or a lot of something that was like really attractive to you and you just kind of had to hold your nose and say, no, this is not going to work? And can you— you don't have to say the name of the brand, but like, can you give us an example of that?
Yeah, there's been a few times where people will just like throw money at you and I'm like, sometimes with these campaigns there's been a lot of moments in this specific like situation where I've seen that brand and they're throwing a lot of money at me to do slim to nothing because like filming a video is not hard. I'm very grateful for my job. I mean, and there are parts of it that are very stressful and hard of, you know, making it right and maybe like the questions and answers you're gonna get back from the comments and things like that. There are very difficult things to being a creator, but filming the video itself, not hard. And so I always will say more than grateful to do that for sure because the amount of money that come into this business business. This industry is crazy, the content creator industry. And so there's been instances where a brand will come and say like, oh, this, that, and the other thing, but I will look and be like, I don't really love the creators that you're working with that I would be a part of the campaign with. Whether it was like we had to do a conjoined thing, or I just see that a different creator has been promoting them and is obviously in another campaign with them as well, sometimes I just don't want to be associated. And that's also another situation that I learned, is that you don't always just say no because it doesn't fit your brand. You also say no because you don't like people surrounding the brand. And that is something that I had to learn, and that's something that I was taught by my dad, is because a lot of things are guilty by association. A lot of situations happen and people get dragged down because you're guilty by association. And that goes with anything, not even business related, that goes with real life too. And I always took that and thought about it with, yeah, I love this brand, but if they're gonna work with people that I know things about, don't like love or don't like what they post and it's just like not the right image that I wanna be aligned with. What if one day we end up doing a group shoot for something I don't wanna be associated? And so those are moments where I've had to turn something down where it might have been a lot of money or it might have been like a long year-long deal that could have brought a lot of money. I am truly in this for no money. I would be a content creator even if money wasn't involved and I had a normal job at one of my favorite stores. I have never been in it for money, ever, a day in my life. To this day, it's just like not what drives me to do what I do. I just, I just find it so fun.
Well, I mean, it's just so heartwarming to hear you say that, and I think it's very powerful and super important to recognize that you are the company you keep, and everybody sort of thinks of you in the company you keep. And so you have to think about not just the brand but those people as well. But then you also listed out a set of things that like it takes to be a creator. You've gotta, you've got to think about the brand deals, you've got to think about the people who are involved with the campaign. You've got to film the video, all those kinds of things. What are some common misconceptions you think that people have about creators or influencers that just turn out not to be true at all?
Yeah, people think that it's just like this everyday super easy thing to be criticized and put your life on the internet for everyone else to have an opinion on. I could brush my hair the wrong way and people are like, I don't think she brushes her hair, and I'm like, oh, okay, so now we have an opinion on how I brush my hair. But the hard part about the content creator life is one, putting your life on the internet for everyone to have an opinion on. Two, the editing process of things. Sometimes people go into depth and like are crazy with edit— I mean, I hire editors all the time because I just don't edit the way that they do because they are phenomenal at what they do. But there's that portion of creators as well that do the editing to a crazy extent themselves, which takes a lot of time. I was posting on YouTube every single week and it was so hard for me to keep up with. I was doing week in my life, which is like you film every single day and then the last day you edit it all and then post it the which is so quick turnaround. And with having slim to no time already, it gets to be a lot. But the other part of it is the business aspect of the creator part that people are like, oh, like you just get money thrown at you to do this, that, and the other thing. Like, no, you actually have to go through the contract as well with you or your team and look, well, how long does the link need to be in my bio for? Because I have another deal coming, or is this a competitive brand with another? Can I work with Adidas and can I work with Jordan? Or can I work with this coffee company and another within the same year. They might be 6 months apart, but that is in the contract. You can't work with another one for one year, for 7 months and one day. You can't post with this logo on because you're working with Nike. You can't post with this one logo that is our biggest competitor. You also have to like really go into consideration and like look and have your team read through and the legal things of all of it. Just because it's like, oh, I'm gonna have this post go on Instagram, but are you gonna take my content and put it on your TikTok? TikTok, you're paying me to post it on Instagram, but are you gonna go take it and post it on your TikTok or your Instagram or your story or your Shorts? Because that's also something that I would have to be paid for. It's really being aware of everything and not signing your life away and like the future being messed up now. Just very much like you have to keep everything into consideration, which is another part, and a lot of time and thought goes into that as a creator, especially your team. That's why you have to have such a great team behind you to have your best interest in your back.
Yeah, I I was going to say, does your dad go through all those contracts, or do you also have an attorney who goes through everything and then also kind of reviews with you, here's what you can do, here's what you can't do?
Yeah, if there are any crazy stipulations, my dad will be like, listen, you can't do this, do you still want to do it? Kind of things like that. But of course we have legal with us as well, but he's the one doing it.
It does a lot of— people definitely would not kind of recognize that for sure. Yeah, that makes sense. Some of what you just talked about is like you hire editors, and of course you have the relationship with your dad and your attorneys. Do you consider yourself— you're managing other people, and what's that dynamic like?
Having a lot of moving parts is stressful at times just because it's like, oh, I filmed the video but I sent it to one of my editors to edit, but it's like there has to be a deadline so I can send it to the brand on time. All those moving parts are still in the works of becoming more smooth just because every day you're growing, every day things change, every day a contract changes because you learn something new. And so I wouldn't say that it's me managing other people, but it's definitely a thing that I've had to learn with. Like, you can be punctual and you could be on people to do it on the right time and do exactly what you want and send the note of details and edits and things that you want. That's me definitely managing and being picky because I totally am. But at the same time, the more you work with your editor or the more you work with a brand, they start to know you better. And that goes with anything. The same way if we talked for 3 hours, I would know you better. It's just getting to know person and like the style that they like or the food that they like or the brands that they like. That's where like the managing comes in.
Yeah, I think so. But also, you know, you have to obviously be prescriptive on like, this thing needs to come back on this deadline, and you know, you probably other people doing things for you. And I think that it's an interesting journey again for all entrepreneurs, and you as a creator kind of getting bigger, the notion of like having to manage a process and having to manage people and having, as you said, different moving parts together. And I think that just sounds like it must be a lot, but you sound like you are handling it pretty well.
Thank you. I mean, we def— there's always room to grow with things like that and a smoother look at it and less stress on everybody's end, which I think comes and will come within the next year or so, which is having a bigger team and having more moving parts and more people involved. Because at the end of the day, the bigger you get and the more— as in not like popularity-wise, that comes with it, but I'm saying business-wise. I mean, the people that own some of the biggest businesses in the world aren't always famous, you know, they don't always have a huge following. They are just behind the big following, if that makes sense. And so having a team that you trust and would give anything to and fully are like, just please deal with it, I can't today, is something that I think needs to happen. But definitely in the next year.
Yeah, for sure. So for the moment, it sounds like you have a bunch of freelance editors and people who are doing some things, but really your team is your mom and your dad and you're on cusp, it sounds like, of hiring some more people to be more involved.
Yes, I do have, uh, management and agencies that also help with auditions and things like that, but the heavy lifting of the everyday is within family, which can also be stressful because they're also just your mom and your dad, you know. And so I don't— if I'm stressed out, they're definitely stressed out, and I don't need them stressed out over little stupid things or just me getting to the airport on time along with the contract that they just read. And so I I'm excited for when a little stress is lifted off everybody when it comes to the point where I do have to have like 5 other moving parts, right?
I can imagine. Who are your mentors or role models in this space that you really look up to and you think that they're managing their career and their lives in a way that really speaks to you?
Well, someone that I look up to on a personal level is Tate McRae, and I look up to Tate because she started out as a dancer. Another person I always looked up to was JLo because she started out as a dancer and she walked in into the acting and the singing, and it took over JLo's life, and now she's JLo, and she'll forever be iconic, you know? Like, that's just someone that I've always loved and idolized, especially being a dancer first. But Tate McRae, I also have a lot of respect for because of the way that she shifted her career, because she was one of the best dancers in this industry for so many years and still is. But she shifted and she did what she's been doing since she was a little girl, which was singing, and took it— and when she was on So You Think Kids, she kind debuted that a little bit, and over the years of just putting her life on the internet, it took off. And I mean, from someone who's not like a friend— like mutuals, of course, we've definitely crossed paths— but someone from a social media standpoint of watching her, even in real life, I'm not even like her everyday friend, but I'm so proud. And it's like saying you're so proud of someone that you're not friends with is such a funny thing to do. She's only 21. Like, I'm so proud of her just from being a viewer and a fan. You know, like not even like a friend, because that is such a hard transition to do, especially like she also has a family and a brother and was in a public relationship, or is in a public relationship. Like there's just so many things. And so watching that evolve and now watching her on Arena Tour, I can't wait to go watch her in concert. But I idolize her. There's so many dance choreographers that I idolize that I grew up taking from that now I'm teaching on faculty with. It's like been such a crazy journey and like a surreal moment for me.
Yeah, I can imagine. And I guess I'm curious, like, do you ever feel pressure because you've been so successful again from quite a young age, successful and then public, and you've built this social following? By the way, do you think you're more famous from your reality TV show or from this whole sort of social piece? Like, how do you think about it?
Really, it really came hand in hand. It really did come in. And I had a following before I was on the show, but the show skyrocketed even more. And then from there I took everything I had and ran with it and built 3 times of that. So really it was all my time. Yeah.
Yeah. So do you ever feel pressure like, uh-oh, I— this is gonna, you know, end in some way, or I've got to in some way come up with something new because of the success you've had at such an early age?
I haven't really stressed out about that one, only because it's been 10 years in the making. And, uh, I definitely though when I was 18 had a moment moment of like, what am I doing with my life, for sure. But I prayed, and it— whatever happened is what happened, and it changed my life, which was I was stressed out because I felt like I didn't want to just be an influencer, and I didn't just want to go to dance every day anymore. I wanted more for myself. I knew I was worth so much more. I knew that I could show and do so much more. And I love being busy, for sure. I've always loved being busy, and I love working. But there was a point when I was 18 where I was like, I'm bored, and I feel like I'm not doing enough, and I just like know I have potential to do so much more. And I prayed, and I just sat there and I waited for it. I did what I could in the meantime and bettered myself as a person and what— in my craft. And all of a sudden I looked and it was a Wednesday, and I was like, oh no, I'm teaching at Millennium, like, that's crazy. And I blinked and I was working with a label to make music now. And it all just kind of happened. But I did have a moment like that where I was— I felt pressure from no one but myself to do more. From the outside, it looked like I was doing more than enough, and everyone still loved me and was proud of me and idolized some kids, and I just felt like I wasn't doing enough. But at this moment now, I just know that there's so much to come. I can feel it brewing. There's so much in the works that people still don't know. There's also so much unknown that I have no idea, but I'm so excited for that because my whole life has been the unknown. I've had no path that's looked like this. It has been so up and down, side to side the entire time, that through a pandemic, through everything, all of the sorts, I just know that 10 years years from now I'm gonna look back and be like, wow, I had so much faith in myself. And it really does come from like just believing and trusting in yourself.
Where do you think you got that from? Is that from your parents who kind of instilled that in you? Is that from some sort of sense of like God, or where does that faith come from?
It comes from both of those things, along with my whole life my mom has always been the dance teacher and the mom to praise her children and lift up her children. She's never been the mother to be like, nope, can't eat that. Nope, probably shouldn't wear that. No, I didn't really like your solo. You I messed up. Like, as my teacher, I would come off from forgetting it or messing up and she'd be like, I thought you did great, shake it off, go put your next costume on, you know? And so my mom has— oh, and my dad as well, but I'm saying my mom because like a mother-daughter relationship is like no other, especially when you're a teenage girl growing up. But she's always been the uplifting parent along with my dad. They've always been obviously like held me to high standards and been hard on me, but I think I hold myself to higher standards only because I'm so hard on myself sometimes. But yeah, they've always been so uplifting and so positive and never been one to like drag me down. If anything, they've just grounded me to be humble. But yeah, I've always had a very like glass half full— is that the saying? I've always had that. Yeah, I've always had like the sunshine energy and aura. I've always had the bright personality, the loud personality, the very, very believe in yourself, faithful personality. And, um, it comes from how I was raised. That's where that goes back to. You don't wake up one day and you're not are not just like that. Some people are, but a lot aren't. And that really does come from like your home, your home, your home ground.
I think that's true. I guess I'm curious, do you have any advice for people who want to cultivate that more sort of, you know, faith-based— I don't even mean, again, I'm not necessarily talking about religion, but like your faith in yourself or your intuition leading you kind of like, like life.
It really does come with surrounding yourself with the right people. And that is a very— I say that vaguely because in every year of my life I have lost people and I've gained people every single year of my life, every year since I was 9. What's funny is since I started working, there's people that dip and people that come in when you don't even expect it. And I think finding people that make you feel the best after you're done hanging out with them, or when you work with them, or when you FaceTime them— the people that make you cheese like a little girl are the people that are like, oh, like, yeah. A lot of it is also like the nostalgic feeling of when you were a young girl, young boy, like That feeling is such a good feeling when you hang out with people that remind you of home or remind you of your mom, remind you of your dad, or remind you of one of your favorite parts of your childhood, or love the things that you used to do or currently do. It's really just finding the right people. And I say that as I still haven't found the people in my life that I can be like, oh yeah, like they're gonna be this, that, and my wedding and this. Like, no, I'm only 20. You're gonna lose people until you're 65. You're gonna lose people and you're also gonna gain people. And the people in my life right now, I love to pieces and I hope that they stay forever. But you just never know in this industry. People switch up on you like it's nothing, you know? They blink and they wake up the next morning, they're like, yep, no, I'm over it. And I'm just like, oh, like, let's just throw that away, that we— what we have. And so what do you mean, what do you mean switch up on you?
What do you mean by that?
This industry is so cutthroat that people will wake up one morning on a random Thursday and be like, no, she seems like she's doing better than me. So like, I got to go. Or there's people that wake up every morning that are like, I want to gravitate towards that person. Because they're doing so well, they must be doing something right. They must be a good person. They must be genuine and authentic and love what they do. And so they must surround themselves with good people. I want to know who that person's friends with. Like, there's two different types of people in this world and you always want to go with the second option. I always think, why wouldn't you want to surround yourself with people that are doing great? Because they must be doing something right. They must be doing something right on the personal end as well. It's not all about what people see on Instagram at all. Half the time it's not even real, you know what I mean? So like Instagram is a highlight reel, but if people are genuinely happy in real life, like, I want to hang out with you. I want to have a good time. Like, let's go country line dancing. Let's go to dance together. Let's go to Denny's together. Like, I'm so down, you know? People are forever going to come in and out of your life, which I've learned, and you just have to take it with a grain of salt because the people that are meant to be in your life will not leave.
Very wise. And again, very grounded, I have to say. Giannina, like, you are so positive. You have so much sunshine, and you obviously have such a— I just want to say wise beyond your years perspective. But what I also know, and what you know, is that careers and lives have ups and downs. And your career as a creator and as an artist, I'm sure, has had ups and downs. Could you describe like one of your highest highs and maybe one of your lowest lows and how you got through it?
Well, some of my highest highs have been just some of my accomplishments, but also some of my highest have been when I learned to drive and when I got my first apartment, or when I got my other apartment for the first time that I lived alone. I moved out at a very young age. I've lived in 3 different apartments starting when I was 9 until now that were my own, along with like— I love going home to New Jersey and like being in my home home. But some of my highest highs have been those simple things of, yes, of course, when I got the slot and like being on tour and being on Broadway and touring with this person and this commercial, but also just learning how to drive or living on my own for the first time, or I drove to New York City for the very first time by myself the other day and like walked around and went to work by myself. Like, that was a huge thing, that was a big accomplishment. But also the year that I turned 18 was a huge year for me, but it was also probably the hardest year that I've ever had to go through in like my personal life. It was the first time I ever experienced what it's like to be depressed. I had no idea that I even was at the time. I just didn't know what it was like to be sad because I thankfully Gratefully, growing up didn't have any like crazy traumatic things happen to me. But of course, the year that I'm legal, uh, like the year that I'm an adult, it all hits you. And, um, yeah, me living alone, such a big accomplishment, but it also was something that broke me a little bit because of what I was going through my personal life. I felt alone, felt lonely. So the year I was 18, I went through a lot. The year I was 19, I went through a lot. I lost someone in my life, a friend of mine that I thought was just gonna like be in my wedding, like things like that, you know, the personal ups and downs are worse than the work ones, truly, because I take the people in my life to heart, like ride or die. And so there's always gonna be up and downs with work, but also if you are okay as a person, that's all that matters. My parents say that all the time. If you're going through it, you can't do it anymore, it all comes to an end. We can stop it right now if you need to. You just say the words, you know, especially with a business that is all about me and ran by me. If I needed a second, it all comes to a stop, you know?
Yeah, I mean, I can imagine that. How did you handle your sort of, you know, being so visible when you were having this sort of upset and depression and sadness and maybe loneliness and isolation, but still you had to like post on social media?
How did you handle that? I handled it by obsessing over my apartment. I obsessed in the sense of I had no energy, or like I didn't want to get up and go to dance at the time. I just did not want to go to dance. I would sleep like 12 hours, and then I would wake up, and then I would get ready for the day, and then by the time I was done getting ready, I like needed a nap. I was like, okay, that's not good. And so I didn't want to go to dance, but instead I learned how to cook a little bit. I would go on TikTok and I would find cute little like breakfast recipes. I fed myself really well in that time. I started going to the gym. I loved— it was Christmas time at this time that I was going through a lot, and so I decorated my room. And like every Sunday, because I was like not traveling I made it a thing to film a video and the lifestyle video of me doing things around my apartment. Like I would clean my room, I would vacuum, I do laundry. I love doing all of those things. I really do. But the reason I don't right now is because I have no time. But at the time I had all the time in the world because I was so okay with being by myself and like just doing all of those things to make myself feel better. And that's really what did it was like cleaning my apartment or building something or doing an arts and craft or coloring, or I was scrapbooking. Scrapbooking a lot at the time. I'm a very artsy girly, and so I love doing things like that. Yeah, yeah, that's what made me feel better, were doing things around the house like that.
Yeah, I love it. Just a few more questions. Have you ever experienced imposter syndrome or severe self-doubt?
Um, a little bit, a little bit, yes, a little bit. I have experienced the self-doubt portion of it with, you know, I was really nervous to start teaching, or like singing in front of a bunch of people. I used to be really nervous to do or when I first started teaching, I was terrified because that's just something so new. It was never, I can't do it. It was just like, I'm really freaking nervous to do this. But I just always had to be like, you can't stop it from happening. It's gonna happen. So just do it. So just do it. Just get it over with. Just do it. And if you don't like, you don't have to do it again. The same way that people are like, just try the food because you don't have to ever eat it again. But it's good to know if you're allergic to it, and it's good to know if you don't like it. Um, it's true. And so I don't know exactly what imposter syndrome means, if you could explain that to me. I've heard it a few times, but—
right. Imposter syndrome is the feeling that you will be found out as a fraud, that you've accomplished everything in your life because of luck and your luck is about to run out. And it turns out that a lot of people have experienced imposter syndrome in their lives, but actually it turns out that high achievers, high performers, are even more susceptible to imposter syndrome. But you are the second person I've had a my podcast who have said to me, I'm not sure what that is, can you define that for me?
Um, your explanation, I could tell you I've never had that feeling ever. I can fully humbly say I have worked my ass off my entire life to be where I am right now, to be living in this apartment, to be living in this state, to have the life that I have, to live the life that I do, to wear the clothes that I wear, to be able to go to the beach any day that I possibly could. I truly have worked my butt off to be here, and I know that it will and has been paying off, and my whole life it's paid off. But, um, this is just the start. I can feel it. It is just the start of a crazy change, a crazy big life career. And so there is no way in hell that this happened just by luck, ever. It did not happen just by luck.
Amazing. So inspiring. I love it. What do you wish you had known earlier on your journey?
That I was gonna lose people that I loved, but you learn so much from it.
What did you learn from it?
I learned so much about myself. I learned boundaries. I learned self-respect. I learned evil intentions and people's motives. I learned people aren't meant to stay in your life forever. People are just supposed to stay for chapters. I learned that, as dark as that is, that nothing lasts forever unless it's really meant to be in your life. And that I sometimes tend to forget that I would be in college right now if I wasn't living the life I'm living. And the people that you see in college are also going through the exact same struggles of losing friends and making friends and having a boyfriend or doing whatever it is. Like, the only difference is that mine is public on some of those things. And, um, I have to give myself grace because I'm only 20 and I only know so much and I only can learn so much at once and handle so much at once. And another thing I wasn't expecting is— excuse my language— but how shitty people can really be in this industry. It is so cutthroat and people really only look out for themselves. And I saw a quote that said, some people never clap for others and they wonder why it's never their turn. And I couldn't actually say that better because the people that will not clap for others and then wonder why it is never their turn, the people that I giggle— I giggle at because if you really just thought about that and that was said to anybody, you really think yourself like, damn, that's a good saying. That's really— no, it is because it's true. It is because it's true. It's probably like this in other industries as well. Well, like in just a normal day-to-day, you know, you work like a business job, people are just as bad. But there's such a group of people in every aspect of life that you're gonna be like, I am just nothing like you. But then there are people that you're like, wow, I want to be so much like you. And you really have to choose the right one, because the right one, like I said, you're guilty by association. If you are with somebody that has a bad rep, or isn't— you hear and you see the things that they're doing, if you surround yourself with that person, you turn into that person. You are immediately put in the same bucket as that person. And so not only being public all the time with everything in my life being on the internet— like, I look on the bright side of everything and it always bites me in the ass— but I truly have to be reminded by my family, my friends, like, this is what they're doing, just be aware of it because you don't want to be associated with that or anyone in the realm of that bucket because then you're associated just by standing next to it, you know? And so I just wasn't expecting to have to be so tiptoe-y, and if that's even like a little word I wasn't expecting to have to tiptoe around things like that and be so careful with just like being a girl that's 20 and wants to make a friend, you know, or wants to talk to a guy. You really have to look on, well, what's the motive? Is there a motive? Like, what's the past? Like, what do other people know? Like, you really have to like scope it out. Yeah.
Wow.
Who wants to scope somebody out? Like, no one wants to do that. I don't want to do that. I just want to be a friend. Like, I don't want to scope you out. Like, that is not the vibe at all.
Totally. You just said so many powerful things, but it's so true that your whole life plays out publicly. So yes, you're going to run into that kind of ulterior motives, as you just said. But also, I just want to say that expression again: people don't clap for others and they wonder why it's never their turn. That's powerful.
That's powerful. Yeah, it's a good one.
It really is. Last question, Janina, what advice do you have for other founders and creators as they embark on their journeys to grow into leaders?
Stay true to who you are. My brand and my business, and everything I've ever done has been nothing but authentic. And whether that is something that's niche or something that is unusual, like just something that nobody is doing as a trend, it doesn't have to be the trendy thing to do. But if you're passionate about it enough, you can make it anything. It's just like magical to see what everyone's career and like life could end up looking like. But I truly do always say like the most authentic people are the most successful because there is nothing you have to fake. Because you can't fake things forever. My mom has always told me this, but people can't withhold a persona forever because it's not how you are. One day you're gonna give it up. One day people are gonna see right through you. All of the darkness always comes to light when there's things that aren't authentic and things that you're promoting or you're doing that aren't actually what you do. And the things that you preach, if you're not actually doing what you preach, everyone's gonna see through it. It might not be right now. You might be successful right now, but 3 years from now you're not. You know, it's the same way that people always say, like, just tell the truth. There's nothing better than just telling the truth. I have someone in my life right now that tells me this all the time, but they're like, there's nothing better than telling the truth about any situation because lying, it is digging holes. And I think that's the same thing with creating a business or creating a profile is like, just be who you are because you cannot withhold a persona forever.
I love it. Be who you are. That's amazing. Giannina, where can people people find you? Where should they go to find your dance content, your day in the life content, you're putting on your makeup content, your brand content? Where do they should go?
All my socials are the same handle, so every single platform that's probably already on is what I'm on. Just my name, my first name, Giannina, is everywhere.
Amazing. Go look her up, she's so fun. Thank you so much for joining me today. This was a great conversation. I really appreciate it.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for listening to From Startup to Grown Up. If you like what you heard, give it a review on Apple Podcasts podcast so other people can find it. And if you know of a founder or someone else who is meant to be on this podcast, drop me a line through my website, alisacohn.com.
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