Ep - 122 Alisa Cohn

Welcome to another episode of my Wake Up Call. You know the routine. I use this podcast as an excuse to reach out to people who are up to something. And what they're up to is making sure they leave the world better than they found it. In fact, they can't get it out of their head. It's not even negotiable with the people that I interview. And what we find out is what is that calling of theirs? If they've discovered what they were born and meant to do, we try and find out what that is and then we try and find out the backstory that led them there. And I got another winner for you. And I mean a real winner, like award winner, like prize winner. Let me tell you about Alyssa Cohn also. I have to tell you that I met her on a couple occasions at something called Renaissance Weekend. And I don't think, I think we spent more than a few nanoseconds with each other. But to ever meet someone and you just get these vibes that you'd like to build on, you know, but then you get whisked away by the event and you mean to get back to them. It just doesn't happen. Well, it's happening today for me, so I'm so excited. So Alyssa was named, Catch this, the top startup coach in the World at the Thinkers50 Marshall Goldsmith Global Coaches Awards in London. She's been coaching startup founders to grow into world class CEOs for 20 years. She must have a good plastic surgeon. She doesn't look like she's been doing this for 20 years. At any rate, she was a one time startup CFO, strategy consultant, and she's now an angel investor and advisor. And she was named a top 30 global guru. And she's worked with startups including Venmo, Etsy, the Wirecutter, Mack Weldon, Tory Burch. Marshall Goldsmith selected her as one of his Marshall Goldsmith 100 coaches, which is really a big deal if you belong to LinkedIn. You can't miss Marshall Goldsmith and his hundred coaches. They're really special. She's worked with such companies as Dell, Hitachi, IBM, Microsoft, all over the place. She's a guest lecturer at Harvard and Cornell as well as the Naval War College. She's the executive coach for Runway, that's an incubator at Cornell Tech that helps postdocs commercialize their technology and they build companies. And she's been on the board of Cornell's advisory council and she's coached public and political figures around the world. Her articles appear regularly in Harvard Business Review Forbes Inc. She's been featured all over the media. Bloomberg, BBC World News, New York Times. She's a recovering cpa. But don't let that fool you because she also sings and she's been a Broadway investor in productions and have won two Tony Awards. So, Alyssa, it's so honor, privilege, fun to have you on. Thank you for being on Mark, thank.

You so much for that really beautiful introduction and it's so great to see you again and be with you again. And I'm just honored to be here with you. I'm honored to be as part of your podcast. I know you have some really amazing people, so it's really a pleasure and an honor for me to be here with you today.

Well, you're up with, you're up with the best and the most moving and the most inspiring. But I will hit you with what I hit everybody with, which is, and it's the usual, it's the same 1, 2 question, which is what do you think your purpose in life is? And that you think at the end of your life you'll say, you know, I think it's still going to be the same purpose. So what would you say that is?

Well, I, you know, I thought about this a lot over my life and it just comes up for me, the resonant voice inside of me in my head and my heart is to make a difference. I hear that over and over in my head. To make a difference. To make a difference. And then I think that the work of my hands matters. That I think is my global purpose that I take with me in everything I do.

So something that I learned from my mentor, Warren Bennis, and he learned from Saul Bellow. The other thing I ask people, Saul Bellow had this great quote, be a first class noticer. And by that he meant that when we notice things, like I just noticed that you went, hmm, as if you. Like as if you just tasted the word noticer. Hmm. And noticing is different than looking, watching or seeing. When you're looking, watching or seeing, you're an observer. But when you notice, you just zoom in on that. So what did you notice along your life that called out to you to make a difference? And you can feel free to unpack a recovering cpa.

Well, I think that that is, you know, you hit the nail on the head. So I was at a firm, actually a fantastic firm, professional services firm. And I was in the so called rotational program, like fast track to partner program. And I did a bunch of different things and I got my cpa. So I did my audit hours and my tax hours and I was a strategy consultant and I did HR consulting. I did some marketing, I did some exit strategies. I did a lot of different things. And after two and a half years, I just thought, well, I'll tell you what happened. I woke up one Sunday and I thought, I hope I get the flu so I don't have to go into work tomorrow. And 18 hours later, I was rushed to the emergency room by my then, by then boyfriend. He rushed me to emergency room with a flu. And, you know, they took one look at me and they, like, took me before other, like, serious cases. I'm thinking, oh my God, I'm really bad. And they, you know, pumped me up with saline and they pulled me together and they sent me home. And there I was, two weeks flat on my back. And I just thought, oh, no, what am I going to do now? Because not only do. I'm like, oh my God, I can't do this anymore. I just can't. My body is telling me, you can't do this anymore. But not only that, it's like, well, what are you going to do now? Like, I don't know what to do. Like, washed up at 27, I had no idea what I was going to do. And when you're. When you have the flu and you're low energy, it's like very kind of hopeless to stare into that, into that abyss. And for whatever reason, every time I thought, what am I going to do? What matters to me? Because I've always been a seeker, so what matters to me? That voice came up to make a difference, to make a difference. And I don't quite know where that came from. I had done Landmark, the Landmark Forum, and I'd done a few other things like that. And I know that what resonates with me, I come back to, like, the work of my hands matters that I can have an impact. And I also know that, like, growing up in a family that didn't always feel like they could be proactive or energetic. I know that I was sort of like, like driving myself in many ways. I was driven to make a difference for other people and also for myself.

So I am a shrink. And I won't leave you in your childhood, but unpack a little bit when you say, so they weren't proactive. So you noticed. What did you notice from your childhood? And maybe notice that you saw life through a different set of eyes?

Well, right. It's an interesting question. And it's hard to know how you felt as an 8 year old or a 10 year old, it's hard to know what you noticed, but I know how I often felt. And how I often felt was, there must be more. And I was in a small town and my parents were, you know, they were great. They're very loving. And it's like nothing wrong with my parents. It was more like I needed something else. And actually back to noticing. When you notice people, when you notice things, you notice about people, they feel seen. And I don't think I got noticed as a kid. And so I don't think I felt seen for who I was and the things that were, like, relevant to me. So I was like in the suburbs and this little small town and nobody noticed that. You know, I was sort of, like, active, and I wanted to do sort of unusual things and I wanted to have more stimulation, probably. And I think that for me, I just think that I kind of saw in my family, there was a sense of like, the world's just handed to you, deal with it. And I began to seek out people who had a different frame, which was, you can change it, you can change your life, you can change. It's not like just the world's given to you. You have an ability to make an impact in the world. And that really resonated with me.

So can you. Do you remember transition from feeling unseen to seeking out? I mean, you could have just stayed there and felt sorry for yourself and eat candy and not do anything, but you did something. You went from feeling unseen to seeking out other people who could see things that appealed to you. So were there some key figures early on? A teacher, a coach, an aunt or someone which you can remember some where you felt either seen or you felt they resonated with you and you weren't crazy for thinking there must be something else or something more. Who was one of those people?

Well, actually, a big moment for me was my youth group. I discovered Young Judea. So again, I grew up this Jewish girl in a small town, and our synagogue kind of affiliated with Young Judea's youth movement. My parents made me go and I hated it. And they said, if you just go, go for a year, and then you hate it, you can quit. So I was like, okay, I went for a year and I hated it. I was ready to quit. And I went to this regional convention and I hated it. And at the very end of this regional convention, one of the popular kids, Mo Blaustein. Thank you, Mo Blaustein. He said off the cuff. Off the cuff. Probably meaning nothing. He Said, so we'll see you next year. And I thought he actually cared about seeing me next year. And so I couldn't quit. So I ended up going again next year. And I fell in love with young jdea and I got lit up by the. I began, by the way, like, sometimes you don't like something and it takes a little while to get used to it. And so I found that with my youth group, and then I found myself really fitting in. So I don't feel like I was. So I was not so social. I was a little socially awkward, and I wasn't the kind of kid who wanted to go to the movies or, like, go to dances. This youth group was about having intellectual discussions, and that really fit for me. And so it felt like it was a group of almost like other nerds who wanted to have intellectual conversations. It was so called peer led. I didn't even know what that meant. But what it ended up meaning was I was personally leading these discussions for I was like 13 and I was leading them for my peers and 14, 15 years old, and I found my tribe and I began to feel like there's a place that I can fit in. And that's what did it for me. That was one of the things that did it for me, helped me bloom and blossom and also gave my confidence. And then little did I know that I'd be facilitating, you know, here it is, decades later.

Can you unpack Awkward? I don't want to go back. Then something happened in your head because there's a lot of people and look, you're the top startup coach in the world. So there's a lot of people who really resist change. They if something feels awkward, they won't go back to summer camp. They won't try it. So rather than trying to give us a convincing case why you should try new things, can you unpack what happened to you internally, where you went from a, I don't want to do this know, I don't see why do I have to do this. Wah, wah, wah to something in which you discovered desire. You discovered I actually want to do something I want to do what happened in your head.

That's a beautiful phrase. Discover desire. It's so true. So why didn't I like it? I didn't like it because I didn't feel comfortable. I didn't fit in. I didn't have friends. I felt like, uncomfortable and out of step, which is kind of how I had felt in my whole life. So why should I go to this extra thing where I felt out of step. And when Mo Blaustein and I think was also. He was with Larry Alford again, there's two popular guys said to me, oh, we'll see you again next year or whatever, or the next one or whatever. For two seconds, I felt like I fit in. And so the awakening of a desire in me was like, oh, that's what it must be like to have friends. That's. And by the way, I didn't have no friends, but like, to fit in. And I felt, you know, I felt seen and I felt like I could not. I didn't. It wasn't. It was just like tight. It was a moment. I knew I didn't fit in because all of a sudden they said that. But it was a moment of, oh, they actually care if I come back. And that's what it was. It's like, oh, nobody cares. Doesn't matter. But it does matter. And I would just say what I learned, like how I felt in terms of desire was an invitation. And what I have learned is that people really benefit from an invitation. And sometimes the invitation has to be extended over and over again.

Can you. I don't know why I'm stickling on this. Probably because I can relate to it. What's it like to feel unseen and then feel seen?

It's like a blooming flower, Seymour. It's like. It's like a feeling of not fitting. And then suddenly. So it's hard and it's like an effort and like it's never going to work. And so it feels hopeless. And then if you feel first when you feel unseen, then you feel seen, it's like suddenly it's easy. And there's just like a lot of creativity and lightness, you know, again, especially for me, because I had felt so unseen in my life, and I wanted. I craved that feeling of being seen. So then it was like something beautiful and nourishing. It was like nourishing. That's how it felt inside of me.

Is it too far of a stretch to say? When you feel unseen, you can feel like you don't exist, you know, that you're kind of invisible in the world and you float around and you know, but you don't really feel that visible. But then when you feel seen, suddenly. I like your metaphor. Suddenly you bloom, you blossom. It's like you come to life from, you know, some sort of in between place or maybe that's too melodramatic.

Well, I don't think it's about being invisible. I think it's Almost the opposite. Like, oh, I'm so awkward. That didn't work. How embarrassing. You know, it's like you're. You're seen, but in a negative way. And it's more about self consciousness. Right. Versus being seen. Part of being seen is that you know that you're safe, otherwise you're being judged. So to me, being seen, there's an element of. And you're safe and you're appreciated for who you are, and you're liked for who you are. And you're, you know, you're somehow not being judged and assessed for what it is or who you are. I think that's an important element of being seen.

So let me ask you, have you learned to fall in love with the introvert that still lives inside you?

It's so funny. This pandemic has helped me a lot fall in love with my inner introvert. And I'm finding myself with less need to be so social. I had a very aggressive social life living, by the way. No surprise. I grew up not being sure if I had enough friends and feeling like, oh, what if I don't have enough friends? And so then, of course, I turned into this adult. He's got great social. I taught myself social skills. I taught myself how to be successful in groups. I taught myself different ways of being. And I really was. I was very. It was important to me to have friends around me. So consciously, unconsciously, who knows, I sort of developed this very wide circle of friends, which is great. It's beautiful to have, like, so many people who are eclectic and interesting and enrich your life and that you feel real connection and love with. And I had a very aggressive social life. So it's kind of relaxing to now be in our lockdown situation where I don't feel the pressure. I wrote a newsletter the last time. My newsletter was the Joy of Not having fomo. I don't have to worry about all these other activities going on around me. There's nothing going on. We're all in the same boat.

So can you relate to the case of fomo?

Oh, yes, yes. Everyone who knows me knows I'm a very big FOMO proponent. I mean, by proponent. What I mean is I am at the effect of FOMO a lot. And I spend a lot of time trying to be like, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. And it's part of my own personal growth around not always having to be in the middle of everything and it being okay that there are things in the world that I can't go to, you know, if I'm in San Francisco, I cannot go to this great party in New York. If I'm in New York, I can't go to this awesome thing that's being planned in la. That's life.

So you mentioned. Look, I think relatively evolved people, which I think I see you as being, I aspire to be, are always in a state of personal growth. So what is some of the personal growth that you're focused on now?

My personal growth? Well, that's an interesting question. I have to link my personal growth with my professional growth. So because, you know, I'm. I'm a coach, I have my own practice. And so. And part of my. I think my skill as a coach and my growth as a coach is because of personal growth. And my personal growth at times is borrowed from professional growth. So I would say there's probably three areas. One is around continuing to. I used to be very nervous. I write a lot for Forbes and for Inc and for hbr. And I've actually written a lot for HBR this year. And I've put other content out or I've been interviewed or something, and I get anxious. There's a tendency to hide myself. Then people give me this feedback, which is specifically, your articles are so helpful. Or I used your article and sent it to somebody. So helpful help. And again, I want to make a difference. So I have to get out of my own way increasingly to be able to show up and do the writing that I want to do to help promulgate ideas which I hope are helpful to people. So that's one thing. The second thing is, you know, my own. I would call it like a reflective journey. So it's like, I do so many things. It's easy to not always be so reflective. And even with the pandemic, I said I was going to journal every day. Well, now it's July. I just started. So just to really give myself that quiet time to reflect and also to feel centered. And I would say on the topic of feeling centered, to have a more regular meditation practice. By regular, I mean every day. And then the last thing I want to say is that I've already been on a really significant, for me and meaningful for me, fitness journey. You know, I grew up kind of heavy and I was out of shape. And, you know, coming from that girl, I remember one time I was like, okay, I gotta get in control my weight. Like 17, I gotta get in control of my weight. I gotta. So I put my little treat sneakers on and I'm like, I'm gonna go for a run. So I go for a run, and literally 90 seconds later, I was back home, lying on the floor on the shag carpet in our living room, going, like. Like, hyperventilating. So that girl then went on to run three half marathons, you know? And that girl now is, like, obsessed with kettlebells. And, like, I post my little kettlebell videos on Facebook, and, you know, everybody's like, oh, you're so strong. Which I am. I'm very strong, and I'm in very good shape. And that's something that you work on every day, though. And I think that that outer journey also feeds an inner journey of identity.

I want to share something with you, and it could be way off, and it could be. And I want you to be candid and say, Nat can't relate to that. So are you game? Are you game?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you say you're into personal growth because I'm flashing on someone I saw 15 years ago. And you remind me of her because she had all this energy. She was a high achiever. And as I sat with her and she talked to Blue Streak, but it was all good stuff. And at one point in the session, I said, shh. She said, what? I said, shh. She said, what do you mean? I said, shh. Shut up. What? I said, listen. She looked at me. She said, listen to what? And I said, I want you to listen to the quiet. It's located between the noise in your head and the noise in your life, and it is screaming out at me for you to hear it. And in fact, it's screaming so loudly that I'm sorry, I can't hear what you're saying because it is screaming out, tell her she needs to find me. And she said, what? I said, maybe I'm just imagining it, but I want you to listen to the quiet. It's between all the activity. And I said, close your eyes, and you can just breathe. And as you breathe, see if you can hear the quiet speaking to you. So, you know, she got a little fidgety, and then she closed her eyes, And I said, yeah, you know, just breathe slowly through your nose. She started to breathe. I'm reliving it now, Alyssa. And she started. And tears started to come down her cheek, and there were more tears. And then she collapsed to her side. It was on a couch. And she just collapsed. And she was just there, quiet. And it just screwed up her makeup big time. And the tears were coming down. And I kind of know this area because, you know, I am a therapist, and she wasn't suicidal, but I was a suicidal prevention therapist. And I know people when they go into the dark zone, they're alone there. And so she must have cried for about five minutes. When she got up, her face was totally bloodshot, and she had a huge smile on her face. She must have been about 10 pounds lighter. And I said, what's going on? And she looked at me and she said, I've been looking for that all my life. And everything I do, without exception, to take me there takes me away from it. And I love being energetic, but there's a part of me that is exhausted. And what she was saying is she wants to know peace. I mean, really feel peace from way down deep, because what she knows is exhaustion. So can you resonate with any of that, or is that just totally way off anything?

I have to say, it's a pretty extreme example. And I guess I would say this. I have. I had, you know, again, before this pandemic, I had an aggressive social life, and I have a lot of things going on, but I've never been the kind of person who couldn't be quiet and sit by myself and be quiet. And that's why I think I'm drawn to reflective journaling and meditation. Even my running kind of clears my head and helps me sort of be quiet internally. And I guess I would say that especially when I'm with my clients and with my friends, like, I'm a pretty good listener, and I'm very present with people. So I think that's part of the sort of, like, the alchemy of being able to hear yourself in your inner journey. And I think that takes a lot of personal development. Don't you, Marc?

Oh, totally. Totally. A lot of that's projection. So, you know, you can certainly reject any of that stuff, because sometimes I have trouble quieting myself. And when I listen into other people. And, you know, sometimes or frequently, I'm wrong, but when. When I can listen accurately into other people. A friend of mine gave me this wonderful term. He didn't come up with it. And the term is interbeing. It's a lovely term. And it goes back. You can look it up on people listening in. They can look it up. And I said, what is inter being? And you notice that just my saying it, just as I did when he told me, he said interbeing is the space between you and the other person. And it goes up when you let go of any particular personal agenda, and you're just totally Focused on getting where the other person is coming from and being curious about getting there with no other agenda. Without the agenda of I'm going to get there and then I'm going to give them the three steps to get out of it. And when you can be. When you can be. There's a term from a British psychoanalyst named Wilfred Beyond. And he said the purest form of listening is to listen without memory or desire. When you listen with memory, you know, we have an old personal agenda. We're trying to plug people in. And when you listen with desire, you have a present personal agenda. But often we're not listening into where they're coming from.

Yes.

So I agree with you. I think I'm probably at my calmest when I'm being most present with another person. And sometimes when I'm not doing it, you know, I kind of, you know, I'll get a little agitated and I'll get a little restless. Mm. So. So you can understand that.

I can definitely understand that. And I think that, you know, the inter. Beings are a great word. And I would just say the dynamics between people are endlessly interesting. And then also what you just said was, you know, maybe I'm project. Of course I'm projecting because I can be like that sometimes. And I'm really focusing. I'm noticing a lot more that people I kind of know, I saw. I know this intellectually. I know this. People are talking about themselves, not about you. And I tell my clients that when they get advice from other people, I said, well, usually people, when they give you advice, they're talking about themselves. Like, that's just the truth. Right. So, you know, you can. You can have advice and you can talk through advice, but, like, just recognize where it's coming from. Actually, it's not even about agenda. Like, I want you to do something, but it's about agenda. Like, this is what I think I should do. And that said, when someone. When you're having a conversation with someone and you're having a back and forth, I'm trying to remind myself that the other person over there is talking from their whole history and their whole story. Like, I'm looking behind you right now, Mark, and I'm like seeing. Peering into that past of yours that I don't have a lot of access to and none of us do. And so I think, as much as possible, listening from curiosity and from love and connection and from also, you know, wanting to create safe space and to let that, let it be is like the. It's a gift you can give to people. And also it's a gift you can give yourself because, you know, if you're listening with desire and agenda, it's very performative.

Mm, yeah, absolutely. So tell us about what you're living into, making the difference, and what's the future that you're living into. And can you unpack a little bit about, you know, Alyssa is about making a difference in the world by fill in the blank.

Well, one way to put that is Alyssa is about making a difference in the world by paying it forward. So part of being part of the Marshall goals with 100 and thinking about our, you know, sort of community in that way is that we're very, very focused on paying it forward, which has to do with helping lift up other people. So the future I'm living into, I have this idea in my head that I want to kind of convene groups of millennials and help them think about their careers now and where they're going to help them be a little more maybe intentional about how they're building their careers. Because I find that a lot of millennials are confused at how to build their careers, and I'm good at that. So I kind of. I have a lot of, you know, I don't have any kids myself, so I kind of think it's, like, great to help young people, really promising who to help them be on their paths. And then I'm starting to think about teaching some online courses to help people. You know, I just know that everything I do that works is self taught. So I'm about to teach a course on networking, how to know about networking. Because I was such a shy kid, I felt like I was socially awkward and I had to, like, teach myself social skills, teach myself networking skills. And people look at me like, oh, sure, for you it's easy. It is not easy. It was not easy. I had to be uncomfortable and. And try, try again and, like, screw it up and learn things. And I want people to know two things. One is like, here are some things that you can do to make it easier for you. And number two, yes, it takes a while to develop great skills when you're not already good at something and it's worth the investment. That's how I want to make a difference.

Oh, that's wonderful. I'm thinking of. Do you know Dan Sullivan?

Yeah.

So one of the things that I learned from Dan Sullivan is he said life comes down to habits.

That's so true.

And he said the habits of happy people are different than the habits of Unhappy people. The habits of successful people are different from the habits of unsuccessful people. And he says what a habit is, and it goes back to what you're saying is it's a discrete behavior that may not be natural, but you practice it over and over again until you internalize it. And when you start to internalize it, it becomes a habit. And it takes less energy to keep a habit than to change a behavior. And then if you're intentional about it, he says, you know, if you can do this, it only takes about a month or so to internalize. It becomes a habit. And then you pick up something else and you make that a habit. And lo and behold, you know, at the end of, end of a year. And I know a lot about Marshall's coaching is, boy, if you could. If there are three or four things that you're not doing that suddenly become part of your habit, you can fundamentally change your life.

Absolutely. Aristotle said, we are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit.

That's great. So I want to be sensitive to your time. So you are the top startup coach. So what are some of the habits? If people who are doing startups, they're listening in. If you were to say, what are the top three habits that they should cultivate that you think will help them be more successful, especially help them be successful early on so they don't have to go back to a corporate job and want to blow their brains out.

It's so true. It's a few things I would say two sides to that. One is about the business. So three sides. One about the managing yourself, managing others and managing the business. So in terms of managing yourself, the habit of self care, getting enough sleep, eating right, fitness, mental space. Right. People around you like making sure that you're protecting the asset and the asset is you. And so it's really about the habits that help you do this for the long term. Then there's managing them, the team. So a powerful habit. There is the habit of figuring out who people are and managing them as they are. Not like, oh, my management style. I do. No, no, no, it's not about you as a manager. It's about them finding out what are the keys to unlock their best and to have a habit of looking for it. And then the last is managing the business. It is just a habit of asking questions about where are we, where are we going and how are we going to get there? Let's measure how we did. So, for example, a lot of startups that I work with, you Know, they have great first quarter, they double. Second quarter, they double again. That's fantastic. But what if they could quadruple? Right. So you have to have something, a sense of what you're shooting for so you can know how to evaluate and assess how you're doing.

That is tremendous.

Thanks.

In fact, that's a sound bite. And when I send you the video of this, you better edit that little sucker out, because I think that deserves to be seen everywhere.

Thank you very much.

That's good. And what do you think? Maybe the opposites of those things. But what are the habits that get in the way? I guess when they don't manage themselves, manage others, and they don't manage the business. But anything else that you can add about these are the common things that can really bring them to their knees and be on the lookout for that. What would some of the.

So in the same categories, managing yourself, it's the opposite. It's that you think you don't need sleep. You think you can work forever. It's working, working, working, working, working all the time and not giving yourself the rest and relaxation you need to maintain your energy level for the long term. Then you get cranky and then you get moody, and then that affects managing others. So the bad habit of managing others is to assume they knew what you meant and to assume that they knew. Oh, I was just saying it. You know, I didn't realize they were actually gonna do it. You're the founder and CEO. Your suggestions are orders. And when you forget that, bad things happen. And then in terms of managing the business, it's about trying to do too many things and not focusing. And that is a very common. Because, you know, founders are so optimistic. And of course they are. I think they go to everything. But, you know, you really have to think about. Think big, start small, move fast.

Ooh, ooh, that's a. Say that one again. That is a key. I'm putting a ribbon on that. Say that one.

I got that actually from Sandy Ogg, so thank you. Sandy Ogg. It's think big, start small, move fast.

That's wonderful. That's wonderful. So tell people where they can find out more about you. I guess they just have to search because they're going to find you everywhere. But direct them where they should go.

To my website, alyssacon.com a l I s a c o h n dot com and just sign up for my newsletters. You may up to speed on all the things they can find me on Twitter, on LinkedIn, on Facebook. Come and say Hi.

That'd be great. Boy, I love how precise you are.

Thank you.

So you didn't lose the CPA completely, but you're precise, you're incisive, you're enthusiastic. And if you're listening in and you think, well, it's easy for her to say. She's got courage, she's got all these things. If you're listening in, you've got it too.

You've got it too.

Alyssa would say, if she could do it, you can do it, Mark.

That is so true. And we should all recognize that it is in all of us. Actually, I will tell you I'm right. But you will see, if you go to my website, everybody, in a few weeks, you will see on my website a little rap music video that I did, little 20 second rap music video, which I'm finishing up. But the hook to the rap video is the work is in you. And that is true for all of us, Mark. The work is in you, and you can do it.

Yeah. You just have to discover it. You're reminding me of something. There's a presentation that I give to coaches consultants about closing more business. And it always starts out this way. I say, how often do you meet a client for the first time? And at the end of the first conversation, they say to you, how soon can you start? And how do you like to get paid? The room goes quiet and I say, it never happens. So what you have to realize is that inside that potential client are those two questions. Your challenge is to find them and have them say it. And anything that gets in the way of it, don't do it.

That's very powerful, Mark. That's right. That's exactly right.

So thank you, Alyssa. We finally got this first date under wraps here. Go back to your bow already and go exercise. And to our listeners, thanks again for tuning into my wake up call. I don't know about you, but just Alyssa's energy has got to wake you up.

Mark, thank you again for arranging our first date and I appreciate it and I loved our chat and I loved all your questions.

Well, thank you. Thank you. And please keep tuning in to my wake up call, because if Alyssa can wake up, so can you. I'm a little older, so I'm gonna go take a nap. So until next time, take care, everybody, and stay saf.