From Start Up To Grown Up With Alisa Cohn

Welcome to the Business Strategist, the show that gives business owners and entrepreneurs game changing business strategies that can be used in scaling and transforming a business. Sharing deep dive conversations with industry experts, thought leaders and clients facing real challenges and uphill struggles. Brought to you by Business Strategist, former elite athlete, international speaker and best selling author, Adam Strong.

Hello everybody and welcome. And we have a rock star on the show today who's been introduced by our good friends Dr. Marshall Goldsmith. And we'll talk about Marshall in the show. And today we have a wonderful lady who's from the United States and her name is Alyssa Cohn. And Alyssa is one of the top, top startup coaches in the world According to the thinkers 500 Marshall Goldsmith Global Coaches Awards which was in London. Alyssa has been, has been coaching founders from startups into big CEO companies into rockstar companies for the last past 20 years. She's also got an amazing new book which comes out in October 21st from startup to Grown up, which we're going to be talking about as well. In the show she's been voted as one of the top 30 global gurus when it comes to coaching and startup. She's worked with some amazing companies from startup through to obviously well known brands of today, which we'll also mention as well. So Alyssa, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Adam.

It's wonderful to be here with you.

Awesome. So listen, it's been taken, I think it's taken us, it's taken us months actually because I remember Marshall introduced us probably about two, three months ago and then you were kind of traveling from Mexico, then back home and then some stuff happened. But listen, I'm excited about today.

Me too. Worth the wait. That's what I say.

You're working in the startup space and I'm always fascinated to know like what your background story was. Was it like did you work in corporate and then transition into kind of coaching? Love to get more of a background of that.

Absolutely. When I was very early, young in my career, when my second job out of college, I was the chief of staff to the provost at a university and I helped, I really ran the strategic planning process. And at some point the provost said you can't manage faculty because they have tenure. And I thought, well, that can't be that. People will only do what you want them to do if you can fire, because you can fire them if they don't. So I went off to business school to kind of think about that and to sort of study that. And then from business school I went into PricewaterhouseCoopers, which is of course, you know, like it was just a large, large professional services firm. I was on the sort of so called fast track to partner program, five years to partner. And then in the middle of all that I just realized this is not for me, it is too big for me. I didn't really feel that the work of my hands could matter and that's what was important to me, to make a difference at the work of my hands mattered. So I was like figuring out what do next. I looked into a lot of things and then I met a coach and I thought, you know, like violence played like brah, like that is what I want to do. But I was super young to be an executive coach. So that's when I joined the startup world. And I was the CFO of one startup and the head of strategy of another startup. And that all kind of, you know, fell apart in the day that things were falling apart with startups. And then I said, okay, I'm going to become a coach. So I coached it first I coach individuals and, and then I coached in large organizations. I worked with emc, with Dell, with IBM, Microsoft, Pfizer, companies like that. And then when I moved to New York, I realized that we were building an ecosystem of startups in New York. And I remembered I kind of came back to my roots. Like I love startups, I want to make a difference. Startups make a difference. And that's where I started focusing really on startups. Love it as a coach.

Interesting. Where did you discover this passion? Because obviously that's, you know, from executive coaching, you know, which is very different from I suppose, coaching startups and things like that because they're very, they're two very different types of coaching. Where did you discover that passion for working for startups?

Well, when I was in New York, I met the, I met the coo, the general manager of Foursquare. And he and I would have a lot of conversations and you know, I had my roots. By the end of the startup world, I'd been the CFO of one startup and so I knew that world. And when we would talk and talk about like the growing pains that they were experiencing as they sort of moved on their path forward, I just recognized it. I knew I could make a difference. I also knew that my experience actually in startups was very relevant. And when I started working with him and then ultimately with the whole Foursquare team and with Dennis Crowley, the CEO, that's when I just realized that I had a passion for this work And I realized, and then of course I got tons of referrals like they referred me to other startups. And that's when I just felt like I really fit into this world. The fast pace. I love the world changing dynamic. I love there's so many things going on all the time. And I love that I can make a difference inside of startups and that the impact of my work matters immediately.

I'm fascinated because what's interesting that you've got quite a spectrum of companies that you work with from you know, sort of your billion pound sort of Fortune 500 companies, Fortune 100 companies, right down to startup companies which have got very little in terms of maybe financial resources compared to the big boys, as I like to call it. What differences have you found, especially working with the founders or CEOs of companies that are billion dollar companies compared to startup companies? Have you found any differences between in terms of their mindset and the way that they kind of think?

Yeah, that's a very interesting question. The answer is definitely. So when someone's kind of raised inside of a big company and they move along instead of and they build their leadership inside of a big company, the way they think is in presentations and PowerPoint and frameworks. And also, and to their credit, for better and for worse, they think about making sure that everybody understands and moving people along down the path of decision making. Now the problem with that is it tends to be slow. You really need a lot of people to get by, to buy in, you know, to the thing you want to do. So things move much more slowly. And I guess I would add that the CEOs of larger organizations definitely to again, they have to really think about the impacts of what they're doing across a much larger set of employees and other stakeholders. With startups, again, for better and for worse, they're kind of thinking, let's do it. They have more conviction, there's more decisiveness. There's also at times more change. Right, more change in strategy. So what's great about that is it can be nimble and that they can move things forward quickly. And then what's difficult about that is not everyone knows what's going on. It can be crazy making all the changes that get made.

Yeah, some good points there as well. If I am having a conversation with say a startup, what actually makes a startup from your perspective? I'd love to know more about this because from my perspective, I'm still having conversation with someone that says, oh, you know, I'm still in startup stage. And yet they Started their company like over two years ago. And I'm like, what's your thoughts on that?

Well, that. Yeah, I mean, that's so funny because it's this question of like, what's a startup? I mean, startup, when we think about it, started from a Silicon Valley point of view. It really has to do with high growth. The idea is that it's meant and designed for hyper growth and then it ultimately reaches hyper growth. And so that is different from a so called small business. A startup has this connotation of it being prepared for hyper growth. But at the same time, you know, startups are startups for seven years, nine years, 15 years, because they're really still, you know, trying to form inside the right structures and processes and they're constantly growing and changing as opposed to having a steady state experience of, you know, like kind of predictability of how we operate the machine, which large companies tend to have.

Yeah, interesting.

Yeah.

The other thing I want to, you know, I just like to say one more thing. Like the truth is that it takes time to find your business when you're starting up a company from scratch and just sort of figuring it all out. It takes time to have the right people, it takes time to find the right business model. It makes sense that there's pivoting and changing inside of the first number of years of a startup because it actually takes a long time to find your feet.

It's a good point actually. I mean, I suppose different businesses are on different journeys, right? You've got, you got your tech and you've got your conventional consultancy sort of arena and whatever it is. Let's talk about the reasons why from your perspective, because you've been in this game for way too long. Why do startups get stuck? You know, they might get stuck at a certain point and then they can't, you know, break through the ceiling or whatever it is. Are there other common patterns? I love to discuss why people get stuck often in your book.

Sure. I mean, there's many reasons, but one, the first thing that comes to mind is that they just can't make product market fit. So we call this, this mythical or this, this sort of platonic idea of product market fit, which means we have a product that the market is asking for, the market is pulling. So it's not necessarily that we fulfill an existing need. Because for example, I'll just say like, for example, all social media companies, all of them don't really fulfill an existing need. Nobody was thinking, oh, we need Facebook. It's like they invented something which then turns into something that everybody wants. So there's either a missing piece in the market that these startups are able to fulfill, or they're able to create a category so that the customers understand that this is something they need. So product market fit can be very difficult. It has to do with again finding the need, but also building up marketing and awareness around that need so people understand what's out there. And then of course building a spiral, an upward spiral on that. That is one problem and difficult thing to crack. The second has to do with leadership is that the founder who starts a company is focused on her product or her service or the thing that she wants to make. She's not focused on building a team, understanding that actually the product needs, you know, sort of marketing and sales around it, not just the product itself. And over time, you know, she's not thinking about how do I lead this team and build this company to be sustainable in order to support the idea that she had.

That's very common as interesting. And I suppose people get also get stuck in cycles. What do you think about getting stuck in cycles in certain parts of the, that the business building stage, what have you found? I mean it's interesting because I, when I've studied business in particular, is that businesses go through cycles. Is there any particular cycle that you found, especially in the startup stages of say a company that might be, say less than 12 months old, is there a particular cycle that a lot of businesses get kind of stuck in? And then it's very hard to kind of crack the cycle.

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Yeah, I think with a business that's.

Less than 12 months old, they're still finding their feet. I think it's more like in the second and third year where what very often. So what happens is founders hire their friends because that makes sense. That's who they know around them. So they hire their friends. The first 12, 18 months is just figuring out what they're doing and then they suddenly have a real product, a real service and real business. And so suddenly it becomes clear that their friends don't have the experience that is needed. Take them to the next level or their friends feel kind of entitled or they can't have direct feedback with their friends. A lot of reasons. So what you have to do then is hire outside people who you've never met before. They come in, there may be friction and conflict with the friends. And so there's a sense of professionalizing at that stage, which is difficult to do. That's one normal pitfall that founders get stuck in. The second has to do with communication.

So you know, like basically the entry.

Level job for a founder is CEO, right? And they may not have gathered a lot of leadership experience along the way. So they don't know that they have to communicate broadly. Often they have to tailor their communication to the person that they're dealing with. They don't realize that like what's going on in their head is not like coming out. So everybody knows what's going on. So what that does is it creates confusion and that creates a lot of extra work because people don't quite know what's going on and what our overall goals are. Those are some of examples of where founders, entrepreneurs and companies get stuck.

I've been in, I suppose in the entrepreneurial ship game since the age of 11. Can you be too young or too old to start up a business and be an entrepreneur?

Well, you know, the truth is whatever works, right?

So there are, like you said, right, you had an entrepreneurial mindset from an early age. A lot of founders, 10, you can see in their backgrounds, you know, that they were entrepreneurs at an early age. Actually somebody I, one of the founders I work with, she in college, like rent, she, she bought a number of small refrigerators and then rented them to fellow students because that's what people wanted in their dorm rooms, right? The refrigerators. And it was not, it was not a big massive business. It was more, oh, here's an idea, here's a way to feed into a market that's like a normal entrepreneurial mindset. So that person certainly like it makes sense that that person at a young age would want to start a company at the same time. It turns out that even though we had this sort of myth, this idea of the young person dropping out of college, finding his co founder and building a company from there, that's like a well trod path actually. Most new businesses are started by people who are age 42 or older.

And so the idea of taking all.

Your business experience and bringing it into a new enterprise actually can make you much more effective. It's more, and I, and I would just say it's not even the age. It's more, do you know what you're signing up for and are you prepared for what you're signing up for?

Yeah, and I'm glad that we brought this up because for me, I always found, I think that entrepreneurship, it's tough and if anyone tells you otherwise, they're lying. I'm sorry. But I just call people out on that bs and, you know, it's interesting. I know that from experience and it's interesting, like, there's been many occasions, and I'm sure this is the same for our listeners, is that, you know, the thought that comes into your mind is also just throw the towel in. Right. You know, because that's kind of the easy route out type of thing. But from your perspective, what advice do you give to people or people that want to embark on a journey of entrepreneurship?

Well, first of all, you have to.

Really decide that you're willing to devote the next 10 years of your life to your company, to this idea. You're going to be whatever the idea is, that's going to be your area of focus for 10 years. Let's assume. So if that's true, do you love it? Do you want. Can you see yourself putting yourself into the hardship and the struggle of that and the ups and downs of that for 10 years? That's an important consideration.

And then the other is to realize.

Like, do you have it in you to develop the leadership skills and other behaviors that you need to, that were required in a constantly changing landscape? Because every, you know, every year, every three years, every five years, your company will require something different from you. And the best way for you to think about that is to assess, like, am I willing and able to do that kind of rapid growth? Because that's what it requires. A rapidly growing company requires a rapidly growing founder.

Good point. And we're talking about ideas. We will talk about startup. When you do coaching and mentoring for companies, do you work with companies in the idea stage, or is it that they've already got something that they've got to market and then they've done some, you know, they've done some testing and some market research?

I typically work in the latter stage. You know, when, when a group of people or founder or group of people are working together, putting together an idea, they got to figure out their idea, they got to figure out their market. That's not my area of expertise. My expertise has to do with building leaders out of founders and helping the sustainable, healthy, thriving company that can support the growth of their Product.

Very cool. I found one of the things that I. That I find completely fascinating is the importance of company culture. I absolutely love company culture. In fact, one of the very first books that I read was the Book of Happiness. And I always talk about the Book of Happiness by Tony Hyzen, you know, and we, you know, he talks about the Zappos story and things like that. And, you know, for me, it was just one of those books that really kind of gave me this appetite for looking at company culture and stuff like that. In your book, especially when you talk about leadership and when you talk about working with these founders, how important is it to get the culture right at the very beginning compared to if you was to leave it further on down the line?

Yeah, that's a great question. So my book is called From Startup to Grown Up. And when you're going from startup to grown up, company culture is like center. It's like the hot white center of a company. I devote an entire chapter to it. The idea of how do you build a healthy, thriving culture? And so, first of all, you should be recognizing initially, like, if you're studying a company, you want to build a massive enterprise, you have to realize that you need to start about thinking about culture from day one. And that has to do with what kind of company do you want to build, how do you want your employees to act? How do you want to show up every day when you show up at work? And really kind of thinking about that and embedding that into the culture. Now, when you hire people, your initial hires are your cultural co founders. So you've got to be really clear that they're fitting into the culture that you envision. And you need to keep sort of your antenna up and be looking for, are we meeting the standards of the culture or not? Do we? Are we? So, for example, everyone thinks about culture as, like, integrity and nice to people, and people like each other. Those are good things. However, you also want to think about problem solvers. You want to think about people who are proactive. You want to think about people who are data driven or who think with their emotions and their hearts and their intuitive. People who move fast.

People are who.

People who move carefully, whatever you want your culture to be. Those are the kinds that we want to hire, especially at first, because they're going to be bringing the culture forward. And the last thing to say is that very often entrepreneurs who are new CEOs will be uncomfortable handling, giving feedback, handling conflict, like they tend to be in their comfort zone in terms of some kind of people they can talk to and then other people they don't feel, feel comfortable talking to or giving feedback to. So the problem with that is that they don't realize that actually they're creating a sort of toxic culture around them where people can't talk to them or people think they're privileging and favoring their friends or whatever it is. So being very aware for what's actually going on in the culture. Even though you as a CEO get sort of, you get protected from the truth very often.

It's interesting because I mean, I was kind of conditioned to think that culture was one of the most important and you've kind of cemented that kind of to bed as such. But I know that, I suppose working with, and you'll know this from experience, a lot of the founders and sort of the founding fathers of a startup company is that they get very much hands on with the operational side of the business rather than the cultural side of business, which is kind of more the, I suppose the DNA within the company. Does that make sense?

Definitely that does happen and there's really a balance because in an early stage company, you as a founder, you as an entrepreneur must be very involved in the operations. You must be involved with hiring, with like understanding the market, hands on with the product. That is true. But also you need to be focused on the culture and the kind of company we're building, the product we're building alongside the company we're building over time. The best thing for you to do as a founder is to as much as possible delegate away as much as possible operations. Although you don't want to abdicate, you want to delegate and that means you still are responsible for it. You want to check in with people but have them do it so you can focus on to your point, the sort of the DNA of the company. That's where your highest and best use as a founder is.

One of the things that I find quite fascinating is that with a lot of, well, I'm going to call them solopreneurs for the time being just for, or if they've got a small team, is that you'll get a CEO of a startup company, right? And they're very protective of their baby, right? It's, you know, it's, it's mine, it's mine. It's like they're gonna steal my ideas and, and that kind of stuff. And it then creates this, I suppose, not just conflict, but this kind of uneasiness between the types of people that you want to bring in and then they get stuck, even if they get stuck as, as, as, as kind of a small business, and then you kind of make the breakthroughs because it's like, oh, it's mine, it's mine. What is, what is your advice about the power of letting go?

Such a good question. My first startup that I was, that I was hired into, the founder could not really share his idea even with investors, and could not really let go. And so I first saw firsthand the negative, negative effect of that. Right?

You cannot succeed if you cannot share.

Communicate what's going on and have some trust, some trust that it'll be okay. So back to your question. You have to hire good people who you can trust and who will have relatively good judgment and make good decisions more or less, and fix bad decisions as they go. And that way you can begin to let go. You know, one founder once told me, he said, when you're building a company, it's like a fire at first. You put little kindling and you've got to, like, be careful and be right there to feed it and to give it, make sure it has oxygen and keep feeding it kindling. So you can't go very far away. But as your startup grows, you put heavier wood on it, lasts longer, you.

Can go off and do your thing.

And get more wood and spend time away. It's going to go without you, and you don't have to give it as much attention. But just to say the issue with that is it's going to go without you. Right. And so you need to sort of make sure that you've directed it in the right direction because wherever it's going with momentum, it's going without you. So it's that balance between how much touch do you want to have and then how much do you want to let go? And also, I just would say that, you know, it's important for you as a founder to think about what's my highest and best use, what is the best. Because, you know, you're, you know, like you're rare, right? The, the entrepreneur, the founder is very rare. That person has the biggest view of the market, cares the most. This is your baby. But you can't do everything. So you have to find a way to delegate everything that you can't and don't want to do and figure out what your highest and best use is. That is the trick.

Very good. Excellent. Interestingly enough. And you probably would have got, you may have got this a lot from your clients, I suppose, especially from a startup perspective. And the Question is, is they're busy, they're working in their business and we could take it from maybe a small business or even a solopreneur. And the question is, is what should I, who should I hire first? Who do you recommend so that I can grow my business? What do you recommend?

Well, you should definitely set like in my first chapter of my book I talk about the importance of self knowledge and self awareness. And you need to assess yourself and see what you have and you bring to the table. And then what you're missing, you need to hire immediately what you're missing. You may be very data driven, very analytical. That's fantastic. You might need to hire somebody who's a little more people oriented, who's a little more gregarious and outgoing. You might be super salesy in a good way. You might be really focused on the product and design of the product. You probably need to hire someone who's more analytical, who can help you sort of take all your ideas and put them into a stream for operations.

Many.

And then it goes without saying if you're sort of extroverted, you want to hire someone who's kind of introverted to help get things done inside and help the thinking system inside. So there's many. And by the way, it's hard to work with opposites, right? So you've got to find the people who bring what you don't bring, appreciate them and respect them and then find ways to help you all together do better than just you could do by yourself.

You know, I mean there's some great models, isn't there, which are out there with regards to matching personality types with certain people. I mean you've got disc, you've got Myers Briggs. There's different ones, right? Is there any one in particular that you thought that you've come across that you thought, you know, this one is, is actually really good because it's kind of sets the ballpark or do you not really believe in them?

Well, I believe in them in a little bit, so I think it's very helpful. The key to those assessments is to realize that the thing that you think is the truth is not the truth, it's just your truth, it's just the way you see the world. So a classic example that Myers Briggs, I love Myers Briggs. There's like this, you know, the style in Myers Briggs, which is the J versus the P. The idea of like kind of figure out, you know, taking data and make a decision as opposed to the P who's like taking data, taking data, taking Data taking and then make a decision, you know, like that. That's a different rhythm. Now the way that can show up is that the J is always on time and the P is always late. And if the J is like, you're disrespecting me for being always late and the P is like, you're so rigid, then it's not going to work. Right. That's bad. But if it is a sense of like, try to be on time because like I'm sitting here waiting for you. But I appreciate the creativity, the ability to deal with structure under the ability to be spontaneous, take us off track or right for the P to say, not you're so rigid, but like, man, I just appreciate you're always there when I need you. And we wouldn't get anything done unless you set deadlines. That's the way to work as a team.

I want to talk about processes just a little bit because we haven't really talked about processes that much. When you take a company from startup and you put them into what I call hyper growth, so you take them from startup to growth, is there a process that you. Or is it kind of more of a bespoke type of approach and kind of analyzing and assessing to see what they need in terms of. To take them from where they are here to where they want to go here. Does that make sense?

So the answer is yes, it's both. Because the reason is this. All companies are different in terms of what they need. They have different strengths, they have different people around them, they have a different culture. So they have a different sense of what's needed to get from where they are to where they're going. Yeah, but there are some common themes that are going to help them scale, which means help them communicate to everybody what needs to be going on, help to help them find things which are easily or help them discover inside of their company what are things which should be easily findable. Regular handoff processes, documentation. Startups have not often figured that out. Again, the CEO has not thought about. So if the CEO has gone from 10 people to 50 people to 100 to 500 to 1000, usually the CEO is lagging behind in his or her ability to communicate to those folks. They may not set up the management team and leadership team in the way they need to to review the business and also have their leaders tell their people, their employees, what's going on. Those are typical things which are missing. And so I sort of have a checklist in my head about what we're looking for to Help get from where they are to where they're going.

Love it. Very good. I'm quite passionate about this particular question because in the world today, everyone calls themselves a coach, a mentor or a consultant. And for me, it drives me insane because I always go back to the question of what makes you a great coach. So my question to you is, when people are looking for coaches and mentors and the like, what is it that our listeners need to look for? What do they need to look for in terms of skillset, what they bring to the table? What makes a good coach in terms of a good coach? Between a good coach and a great coach?

Yeah.

So the first answer to that question is, what makes a great coach? You know, from my point of view, people says, well, what makes you a great coach? I say, well, the 20 year track record of successes that my clients have achieved through our work together. Right. So that is really what makes a great coach. The second thing is talking with the coach and figuring out where is he or she intuitive and where does he or she have systems and processes and understanding, Is that going to fit for you? It goes without saying that when you find a coach through personal referrals, that can really help you because you know that this person has referred this person and there's a vetting process there. And then the last thing to say.

And I didn't used to think this.

Was important, you have to get along with your coach. You have to be able to realize you're going to be spending a lot of time with this person. When you need this person, you want to be able to pick up the phone and call him or her. And I think it's really important just to recognize that, like actually liking this person, wanting to spend time with them is important. I didn't used to think that was important. And now from my own experience, having my own colleagues and coaches around me, the way I work with the founders I work with, I just realized, like, having a good chemistry is pretty important.

I agree 100%. I believe that the great coaches actually choose their students. Right. And I'm probably, and you're probably have the same philosophy, a little bit like me. And along with Marshall, what do you look for in a really good student?

Oh, that's a great question. So when I, when someone comes to me and says, I want you to coach me, what I like to do is I like to do a little coaching right there and then because I want to assess, are you coachable?

Right.

That's fundamentally what it comes down to is are you coachable Are you willing to engage in a dialogue? Are you willing to interrogate your own ideas? Are you willing to have a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset? Are you willing to listen appropriately and then express yourself appropriately? You don't have to be perfect, but you have to have for me the signs that you're there, right? That you want to there and you want to build your own sort of your own internal state so that you can be effective in your external state. And then I would add that like I care a lot about you, what your values are, what you're trying to get done in the world. And so we have those kinds of conversations as well. Those are the things that go into my own sense of when I'm going to choose to work with a client or not.

Love it. Very good. Now your book comes out October 21, October this year. Kind of exciting stuff, right? Tell us a little bit more about, because I know that you have kind of mentioned some bits and pieces in our conversation, but talk us a little bit about why you wrote it, who's it for, and a little bit more details about it.

Great.

I'd love to talk about my book. So my book is called From Startup to Grownup. And it really is about that journey from founder to CEO, somebody who's building a product to somebody who's building a sustainable, healthy business. It's divided into three sections, Managing you, managing them and managing the business. Right. It starts with you and the idea that you need to sort of have self awareness and build yourself, recognizing your triggers, your go to stances, your natural style before you can apply them with anybody. And then you have your employees, people around you. You've got to both figure out how to manage them and then also create infrastructure around you, managers around you who are going to help you manage the overall company. And then what I think people forget about is that there's a business we're running here, right? We're not just building a product, we're not just managing people, we're trying to build a business. So what are the metrics and tools you need to use dealing with your co founder, which is a very big topic for the people that the entrepreneurs that I coach and then certainly managing your board. And then I would just add that in the new world of work, I have a lot of tools for remote work because remote work is a thing which has come and it was anyway coming and now it's accelerated. So that's like super important to also deal with. And just the last thing to say is I wrote this book because for 20 years I've been coaching, and specifically with startups. I've been coaching for like 15 years inside of startups, and I walk into a new startup and I'm like, where's your leadership team? And they're like, what's a leadership team? Or when are you doing all hands? What do you mean, all hands?

Right.

So I just sort of see over and over and over the same pitfalls that founders come up against. And I really wanted to make a difference, to have kind of a guidebook for how you need to run your company to be successful.

Love it. I'd love to know more about what is your vision. Where do you see yourself in the next 10 or 20 years?

Well, I see myself continuing. You know, I have a passion for founders and for startups, so I see myself continuing that work. I'm very interested also in helping train other coaches to help them work in the startup world, because there's a lot of need for that. And then, I don't know, I guess I feel like I'm sort of open to seeing what comes out of this book and other opportunities that go in. You know, I'm not sure if I told you I created my pandemic project was I created a rap music video. Rap video. Yeah, I know, I know. We can.

I can share the link with you.

I created a rap video about executive coaching.

I love it.

It's called the work is in you because the work is in you. And, you know, I'm interested in maybe more creative pursuits over the next, you know, five or ten years.

Love it, love it, love it. I didn't know you had such a great kind of interest in music and rapping. I. Guys, if you want to see that, by the way, we're going to put the link below so that you're not going to miss out. So I just want to see that.

But.

But that's kind of fun. I'm looking forward to watching. I'm going to watch that straight after this. Anyway, so listen, great to have you on the show today. I think we've covered a lot of groundwork and I hope that you guys that are listening in today hope that you've had your notebook and pen and you've been writing frantically, you know, and listen, businesses are on different journeys at the end of the day, right? And one of the things that I find, you know, interesting is, you know, so many people compare themselves to where they're at and where they're going to other people. I don't know. Do you find that a common problem in the business world with people that trying to compare to. And it just kind of, I don't know, really. It's a bit of a. It kind of holds people back, I suppose, in a way.

What do you think it does hold people back? Absolutely. It's sort of inevitable. And it's human that to compare yourself to others. And certainly the founders I work with will often be like, oh, Jeff Bezos wouldn't do it this way. Or oh, Bill Gates would do this way. Or Steve Jobs. Right. And that actually contributed something else I talk about. My book is Imposter Syndrome.

Right.

So this idea that, like, they're going to find me out, am I doing it right? So for all of us, we need to have tools to help support our inner state so that even when we're down, we know it's going to be okay. Put one foot in front of the other. So I think comparison is the robber of joy.

Love. It is. That is a boom quote in the comments, so make sure you've written that down. I just want to say thank you so much for being on the show today. We really appreciate your time today. I hope you've enjoyed our show.

It's so fun.

Thanks, Adam. I loved it. I had such a great time being with you.

Very good. And we just want to say thank you amazing, very much. We love you, Marshall. And. And by the way, listen, guys, hope you've enjoyed today. Connect with her on LinkedIn. Tadloo. Take care. See you soon.

Thanks for listening to the Business Strategist with Adam Strong. Follow Adam on LinkedIn, YouTube and AdamStrong.net Leave a review on Apple or Spotify.