*Let’s Talk Sustainable Business* S7E1 - Sustainability in The News

You're listening to Let's Talk Sustainable Business. Hi, my name is Barbara Menes-George, and I am a sustainability communications expert based in Brussels, Belgium. It's a pleasure to welcome you to this edition of Let's Talk Sustainable Business, a series brought to you by the Conference Board. Today is the first of a two-part conversation with journalist and writer Philippa Nartel. Editor of Sustainable Views at the Financial Times. Sustainable Views is an ESG-focused service created by the Financial Times, offering a daily newsletter, analysis, and a policy tracker. It aims to help its readers navigate the ever-expanding rules, frameworks, and policy decisions shaping the ESG space worldwide. Philippa's work covers a range of topics including climate change, the energy transition, sustainable agriculture, biodiversity, and sustainable finance. Before working at the Financial Times, Philippa was Editor-in-Chief Environment and Sustainability at New Statesman. Now Philippa was also previously Editor-in-Chief at Energy Monitor, as well as Editor-in-Chief for Foresight Climate and Energy. This week's theme is sustainability in the news. I'm sure listeners would agree with me that both the general media landscape and climate change/sustainability-related reporting has evolved quite rapidly over the last decade or so. For example, when it comes to engaging younger people, a Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism study from 2021 says broadcasters and newspapers are struggling to reach or build relationships with under-35s. This is an age group that tends to access the news via social media aggregators and other non-traditional media. FT Strategies itself says news organizations in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa have already had to contend with multiple existential shocks to their business models. Including the structural decline of print in many markets and major changes in the dynamics of the digital advertising market. A more recent Reuters Institute study nevertheless found that the news media continues to be the primary way people access climate change information, ahead of documentaries, social media, and interpersonal communication, with television news at 31% and online news at 24% the most widely used media. Video is people's preferred format ahead of text. So I'd like to keep this week's introductions short so we can immediately get into these topics with our special guest. Welcome, Philippa. I'm really looking forward to talking to you about the ever-changing sustainability, climate change, and media reporting landscape with you today.

Thank you, Barbara. Nice to be here.

To get started, could I ask you to tell us a bit more about what you do at Sustainable Views?

Yeah, definitely. So as you said, I'm editor of Sustainable Views, which is a B2B publication from the FT. I'm based in Brussels. The rest of the team is based in London and we work with a network of freelancers. We cover the full gamut of sustainability policy and regulation through news analysis, interviews, and opinion pieces. In my role specifically, I'm responsible for reporting on what's happening in Brussels and then also commissioning and editing the stories from the other journalists, freelancers, and industry experts and bringing together the whole publication. I also write, as you mentioned, the daily newsletter that goes out to all our readers, host the Sustainable Views podcast, and also moderate events and panel discussions around sustainability issues. Another important strand of my job is working with the rest of the Sustainable Views team to develop the product and make sure that we create the best products and content for our readers. As you mentioned, we recently relaunched our policy tracker that tracks sustainability policies globally. And then we're also— we set up new products such as recently we set up a tracker Keeping an eye on the executive orders that are coming out from the new US administration and seeing how these executive orders are impacting sustainability policy and regulation in the US and in the wider context.

A busy time for you.

A busy time.

I mean, you mentioned that you work in Brussels and with Brussels politics, but you're also keeping an eye on the US administration. So is your focus kind of Europe and North America, say, or is it a bit wider? Do you look at like to receive news from other places as well? What's your geographical focus?

Yeah, so our geographical focus is very much a global focus. We're a small team, and so our main focus is the US, the UK, and the EU. That's where we're based. But we also keep an eye on what's happening elsewhere and report from various regions. Once a month, we publish a roundup of sustainability news from Asia and also a monthly roundup of sustainability news from Africa. So we really make sure that we keep an eye on on what's happening around the globe.

Great. Good to know. Thank you. So we've known each other for a few years, and I know that you used to previously work in the NGO space. You worked for organizations such as the European Environmental Bureau, the Global Call for Climate Action, Chemical Watch. So how did your time there influence your work now, basically?

Yeah, so I started out as a journalist and then went to the dark side, as some people say, for a few years and now back on the bright side again. I think working in the NGO space and for a range of organizations means that I have a wide understanding of policy, and it's very clear that sustainability isn't just climate change or nature. It covers the whole gamut from chemicals to agriculture. And also, I think it's this need as a journalist, which is extremely important, especially at the moment, that we speak to people across the board. So people from civil society, business, policymakers, and we incorporate those different views and try and get, you know, help the discussion rather than polarize it further, given the state of the sort of discussion at the moment, in particular around sustainability.

That's what I was going to focus on. I mean, obviously your audience is a business audience, but I imagine that you're not just looking for business people to input into your content. You're looking for, yes, like you say, civil society and others as well to make it more more complete, I imagine.

Yeah, very much so. So, I mean, our main audience is a business audience, though we also have subscribers who are policymakers or the bigger NGOs or people working in, in other areas. Um, and we very much want that rounded discussion so that we bring in policymakers, um, civil society, business, business organizations, different organizations that are lobbying around, um, the different aspects of sustainability and policy and regulation. So yeah, it's really bringing those voices together and seeing what makes sense for a business audience to understand.

Great, thank you. So in the introduction, I briefly outlined how the media landscape has changed over the last few years, and we'll come back to social media specifically in part 2 next week. But for now, I wanted to ask, how do you feel the sustainability or the climate and energy space in reporting has changed since you started working as a journalist?

Yeah, I mean, so I started work as a journalist well over 20 years ago. I've worked in London, France, and Brussels. I think the main change is that when I started out as an energy or a climate journalist, we were sort of the geeky group of a small number of journalists that were really covering the beat, whereas now whatever beat you're covering as a journalist, you need to understand sustainability and climate change. Given the impacts it's having not just on people or people's lives, but on the economy as a whole and on the policies that businesses are putting into place. So I think that really is the big change. There is obviously also a change in terms of social media, but the way we present the news. I mean, I was sort of the tail end as well where print media was still the source to go to and your website was sort of almost a nice to have, whereas obviously that is totally reversed now. And even media that still have a print publication, say a weekly publication, on their website, they've obviously got rolling news or articles that are changing constantly. So that has changed. Yeah, it's a much faster pace of news.

A question I actually hadn't thought to ask you, but do you feel now then, if you're a journalist coming in, that you need a certain knowledge of climate change, whatever beat you're covering, just because it is going to touch on whether you're covering agriculture or finance or crime or gender, you know, it's going to touch every aspect, isn't it, in a way that it wasn't seen like that before?

Yeah, very much so. And I think the, the research and the studies that are coming out from businesses, uh, the insurance industry in particular, are really showing that this is having an impact, um, on everybody, on all businesses, on all countries, and is having a financial impact as well, as well as a material impact. And so, yeah, I think, um, you know, all journalists should hopefully be trained, um, going forward on, you know, sustainability, climate change, and and why these issues are important to understand. They're no longer a niche issue that can be packaged on the energy desk.

You touched briefly on kind of the digitalization of newsrooms, right? Like you were saying, a website previously wasn't important and now it is. From a kind of not just time passing perspective, but a COVID-19 perspective, how have you seen that change in the last 5 years? Because I mean, I feel even as a consumer, I have to say, I think I do consume traditional media a little bit less. You— I was more on my phone, less on my computer, more on social media. So, um, how has that impacted the way that newsrooms operate?

Um, I think it's a, it's a very good question. I mean, I think one way in the terms of that newsrooms have changed is the fact that even though most people are now back in the office, there is still people are working remotely a couple of days a week. So it's a different relationship between journalists There is also a lot of desk-based reporting. I don't think that's just a result of COVID but obviously during COVID people traveled less. It's very clear now that those budgets that were there before are not necessarily there for travel from media organizations. So making your case that you can travel rather than reporting from your desk, I think, has become probably more difficult. 20 years ago, we just jumped on trains, planes as if there was no tomorrow and went off to every press event wherever it was. So I think that is really a big change which had started before but has really been sped up by COVID.

Are there kind of positives and negatives to that? Because the negatives, obviously, I imagine if you can't see who you need to talk to or interact with them in the same way, I guess that affects it. But does that mean people are going to come to you or you can reach people who previously you wouldn't because technology is just now, you can hop on a Zoom or something like that?

I think in terms of events, that's definitely something which has potentially improved is that we can bring people together online and bring these different voices together in the same space, whereas potentially before it was more difficult. So I think that is a positive. I think what's changed as a journalist is before you would just pick up the phone and speak to somebody on a phone, whereas now, 90% of the time you set up a call, you see that person. There's a bit more planning involved, but potentially that gives a better relationship because you can actually see the person. There's a bit more time spent. It's not just them. And we still, you know, pick up the phone and have quick calls when we need news and we need a quick reaction. But there is that kind of more of perhaps creating relationship with somebody rather than just, you know, picking up the phone. And I think, you know, the, the— as a journalist, what's always most valuable is actually going to meet people, you know, going for a coffee and creating those relationships. And that will never change, I think, because that's, you know, what human nature is. And building relationships is often made face to face with people.

As an elder millennial, I agree.

Yeah, perhaps the younger generation may not quite agree.

So that was kind of the media landscape. Now I wanted to ask you, have you seen businesses change the way that they talk about sustainability in the last few years? And if so, how?

Yeah, I mean, I think at the moment we're really seeing a big change. I mean, I think in the last 4 to 5 years, especially in the US and the EU, the UK, but also globally, we really saw sustainability becoming mainstream, as we've said. And for businesses, you know, all businesses create their sustainability or their ESG report. This idea of reporting has become quite mainstream that you don't just report your financial figures, you're reporting about what you're doing around sustainability. With Donald Trump in the White House, obviously we are seeing this pushback now in terms of, at least publicly, that companies no longer want to come out with perhaps claims that they were making before or to be very to stick their head up and sort of shout about sustainability. I do think some of this is green hushing rather than actually companies changing what they're doing. So behind the scenes, they're still carrying on, but perhaps not talking about it as much. And it's not just Trump that has caused that impact. I mean, we've already seen in the EU the first 4 years of the von der Leyen administration was very much, you know, green is great, we're going to be the greenest, you know, EU. And now that shift has moved because of geopolitics towards competitiveness. Obviously war, defense, etc., as well. So I think within that space, obviously companies are rejigging the way that they talk about sustainability as well.

I think we talked about before this recording the fact that I think an issue is that because businesses feel the need to talk about sustainability, sometimes they actually are not very good at defining what sustainability is. They're just like, right, we have to say something, we have to talk about carbon emissions or or something like that. Have you seen that improvement? Do you see that businesses are getting the messaging a bit more clearer and better, or is there still some work to do? And kind of like, you know, if they want to reach people like you to help spread the message further, are they being more accurate or, you know, not really? Is there still some work to do?

Yeah, so I think, um, things have improved because we do have standards in place now. So we have the international sustainability standards, which have— are not just being rolled out by companies in the EU or the US, but globally there are governments that are putting these in place and asking companies to report. That is mainly around climate. In the EU, we've seen the CSRD, the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Disclosure, which at the moment is obviously under discussion. But this has created an understanding that companies need to report around climate. I think what's interesting in particular is around nature, which is really something that we're seeing companies talk about a lot more than they were in the past and seeing it as a business risk rather than just a kind of nice to have, that they can understand in terms of supply chain, supply chains. If there are extreme weather events, if nature is destroyed, if it gets too hot to grow certain things, that this has big impacts on lots of industries, the chemicals industry, pharmaceuticals, etc., food industries. So I think there is definitely a change. I think there's still a long way to go, and we can see the discussions around the omnibus proposals and the CSRD in Brussels, that there is a lot of pushback, that businesses feel that it's too much, they've got too much to report on. But I think when you speak to people internally, but nature and climate are definitely both on the agenda.

Yeah, I can't fail to recommend our episode with Sebastian Leake from NatCap who talks about exactly that. He helps companies who are reporting on nature, some of them for the first time. And yeah, it's, I mean, my experience at the moment talking to companies about the CSRD that's up for grabs is, you know, I think companies, if you're talking to the sustainability teams especially, they still obviously want to kind of go ahead, but it's a lot more, yeah, it's a lot more tricky to know how to navigate it. And I think some people are like, well, we started doing the work, so we're just gonna carry on because it's gonna put us ahead. But I think as ever with companies, the issue is, well, what are our competitors doing? So if competitors, I think, start rolling back, then there's that domino effect. So hopefully, you know, that's not gonna happen in the same way, but let's see. One of the main reasons that I wanted to have you on the podcast is because, you know, I've been a communications person working on media relations and I know that many companies want to get media coverage on their sustainability stories, but they don't always know the best way to get their messages across to journalists. So I really wanted to have it from a journalist's mouth of what are your recommended dos and don'ts for reaching out to someone with your profile? What would you recommend for companies who want to get coverage in places like Sustainable Views?

Yeah, so first of all, know which publication you're actually contacting. So understand the publication. Is the story or the the press release or whatever you want to send actually relevant for that publication in the first place, because we receive a lot of press releases, communications every single day. And when somebody constantly sends you something which is not relevant, you know, you switch off after a while. So make sure you know the publication and understand who you want to contact. What's the outcome you want to get from your communications as a business? We're a business-to-business publication, so we're speaking to businesses. So, you know, bear that in mind when you're contacting us. Um, I think being timely is really, really important. So, um, if you have a report you want us to cover, don't send us it at 9 o'clock that morning when it's been published on your website already. You need to send it, you know, a couple of days in advance under embargo. Offer somebody as a spokesperson, and so that we can have our ducks in a row and it's ready to go live. You don't want to be behind the curve as a journalist. You want to be at least on time, and if preferably in front of it. Um, be accurate. Um, we've had a few situations where somebody sends a report and then a few minutes later in the day they'll send an email saying, oh, actually we've just realized, you know, some of our statistics are a bit wrong, or whatever else. So, you know, be accurate. Um, I think one thing with a B2B publication as well is that, you know, understand why you're speaking to the B2B media and don't see us as sort of second class. I mean, sometimes we'll get a pitch from a company and then say, well, if this doesn't, you know, if the Financial Times or the Guardian doesn't take it, would you take it? Well, that's a bit of a turnoff for us as journalists because we're different, but certainly not less. So really make sure you understand what you're connecting and don't sort of pitch it to us having already pitched it to somebody else you would prefer to appear in. And I think be proportionate in terms of how you're contacting journalists. So if you sent an email, Don't wait half an hour and then phone me and sometimes even WhatsApp me because information overload. I think WhatsApp has become almost a professional tool. It's great and a way to communicate with people when you want a quick reaction, you potentially want to speak to somebody off the record, you want to speak directly to a politician. I don't want a PR agency that doesn't know me from Adam sort of WhatsApping me saying, did you receive the press release I just sent you? So I think WhatsApp needs to be thought about, how you use tools like WhatsApp or similar means. And then once you've pitched something, make sure it's relevant, it's pithy, there's somebody who can actually speak about it. I mean, don't send out a press release and then when I as a journalist phone up and say, can I speak to your expert? Today and they say, well, actually, they're in the Bahamas for the next 2 weeks, then you have to be organized and ordered. And I think those are things that don't always come through. And I think also for businesses, what's important is make sure that either as a business you contact the journalist or you get your PR agency to do it, but don't you and the PR agency contact the same journalist within half an hour with a slightly different email, but it's essentially the same report. And I've had that a couple of times recently.

This is already wonderful advice because I think when you're working for a company and you have news, it could be, you know, whatever, it could be a joint venture partnership or, you know, a report with some very important information. I think people very much get ahead of themselves and I think it's good to aim high, you know, to want to get coverage in the mainstream media. But if you're just starting out, you know, starting with trade press or B2B publications that have a much more specific audience rather than a wider audience, I think is a much better way to start if, like you say, you do your research and know who to reach out to and be ready to kind of talk to people if you need to. Because yeah, I think I've had clients where they will be like, my goal is front page of the FT, and you're like, well, that's very nice, but if you're sending a press release about how you've created a brochure, I don't think that's going to make the front page news of the FT.

I think it's also very much in terms of outcomes as well, and this idea that actually If it's something very niche, the trade press might be actually a much better bet for you. Or B2B, if you want to speak to other businesses, then the B2B publication is actually much more pertinent than especially something like The Guardian, which is a very generalist newspaper for the general public. Exactly.

I think if you're, say, a startup, I think you're much better off in B2B or trade press because you— the investors that you might want to connect with are there more readily than, than those publications. I think that's That's really, really good advice to keep in mind. Are there any kind of particular situations, you know, we've said, you know, don't get in touch or don't get in touch in this way, but are there any situations in which you would recommend that companies reach out to you? So I'm thinking of as an example, if there's something happening in the news and there's someone who's a real expert on a topic who's like, you know, I have something to say about this, would that be a good situation? What other situations are you sometimes kind of looking for information and would appreciate it coming to you more organically, where companies could help in that respect?

Yeah, I mean, I think if something is happening, we— so for example, if there's going to be a policy announcement, um, from government, um, and you know it's going to impact your business or it's in your space, then definitely get in touch, ideally ahead of the announcement, especially if you know what it's going to say. Offer an expert, um, for an interview, send a pithy quote that is relevant, um, And yeah, I think again, it's this question of timeliness. So knowing what's happening or give me a quick ring and say, actually, we'll be commenting on that. But if it's a big event, you don't want 10 people offering the same quote, essentially. So it's really thinking where, as a company, where you're going to add value and what you've got to say. Yeah. And be very timely. If the European Commission comes out with something at 10:00 in the morning, don't send me a quote at 10:00 in the evening because the article will be out there. So, yes, we may well do follow-ups. I produce the newsletter, so if it's really interesting what you've said, it could then go into the newsletter. So there are often other opportunities, but don't expect to be quoted in the, the news story if, you know, you've sent it 12 hours after the policy announcement that we knew was coming, um, actually happened.

And I mean, I— my kind of last question was going to be, what advice would you give companies looking to reach you specifically? Timeliness seems to be the main thing, but I think, like you say as well, it goes back to building relationships, where I think companies who say have never been in touch with you and expect that you just want to take a quote from them without any contextualization or timeliness or anything, that's not from a human perspective, that's not very good. You need to build a relationship before then you become someone trusted, I imagine, that you know you can reach out to.

Yeah, and it's very different depending whether you're writing a news and news analysis piece. I mean, we don't tend to break news, but that we're in a news analysis Or whether you're writing a feature with a longer lead where you will actually want to speak to experts over a longer period of time and really dig into a subject in detail. So it's always good to have different people available and to know who's out there and who's really focusing on this space. But obviously, as you say, if you know and you understand where this company is coming from, then you're more likely to want to speak to them, use their quote, than if they've just sort of, yeah, come out of nowhere.

Well, thank you for your very practical advice, Philippa, and thank you for joining us today. This is the first of a two-part episode, so join us next time for part two. And thanks to our listeners. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to this podcast series and explore the entire catalog of podcast programming from The Conference Board by visiting our website at tcb.org/podcasts. See you next time. That was Let's Talk Sustainable Business.