Sustainable Views: Meet the green tech activists

Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to a new episode of Sustainable Views, the podcast. I'm Silvia Pavoni, your host. In the next few episodes, we will be focusing on entrepreneurship, how people's ingenuity, technical skill, and business acumen have flown into a lively and growing area, that of green startups. In Europe alone, there are more than 800 climate tech companies. Over the past year, here at Sustainable Animal Views. We have been speaking to some of those climate startups, and now we will have a few of them talking to you too. Today our guest is Matthias Wiligström, the founder and CEO of Doconomy. Doconomy is a Swedish impact tech startup. It was created in 2018, and since then it has partnered with a variety of organizations to deliver Impact, from the United Nations to Mastercard. What it does is very easy to understand, though rather complex to assemble in a meaningful way. It helps you and me and many others around the world to measure our carbon footprint and that of the products we buy. It has clients around the world, including many banks, which combined have 850 million potential users of Doconomist calculators. Its lifestyle calculator, for example, tells you the CO2 emissions resulting from what you buy and how you travel. I took it to, luckily, my the number wasn't too high. But enough from me, let's hear from Matthias.

So, Doconomy is all about climate literacy, really, I would say. Bringing awareness into the, to the blank spots around your own footprint and how you can act to reduce it, how you can inspire others, and how you can contribute to a trajectory hitting the 2030 and the 2050 targets as an individual, but also in any other role that you have as an individual. If you're a parent, politician, corporate leader, or, or anything else, you know, we need to know what is required in order to execute on it. We've been trying to lead by example. So to do economy, we need to walk our talk. And it's, it's incredibly important as a as a company shaping a new industry, that not only do you require others to, to, to do their part, but that you also show the way. So more than just a traditional company setting up around a service that might be disruptive, we also want to disrupt the way that people see us as a role model in this space. Now, that's big words, you know, and we need to think about how we how we contribute to reducing and how we also add value by educating others to reduce their footprint as well. And that calls for frequent follow-ups and also great contribution to the different organizations and different alliances that are being set up, bringing not only our services and our products, but also our experience and our passion to the mix.

So consciousness is part of it. Another crucial part is behavior, and financial transactions are a good place to work on both.

Yeah. So today we have 3 services live in the market. Doconomy was set up around the ability to enable every transaction to carry a carbon intensity score, making every purchase count so that you understood both the monetary and the planetary consequence of your purchase decision that is based on CO2 emissions equivalent. But we've also added the freshwater component in order to illustrate the interconnectivity of impact factors as well. But CO2 has the richest datasets, that's why we started there. Um, the reason for us going to market through banks, enabling banks to educate and engage all of their users, is that we think that we need to connect this insight to something that you already do every day. So in, in some parts of the world, transactions are part of the daily grind. And making the money the vehicle for this potential positive change, we believe, is a very powerful carrier of the idea, as a lot of people are very keen around understanding how much money they have and what they spend it on. We can't exclude anyone from this being part of the solution. So it's both bottom-up and top-down. And I think, of course, companies, large corporations, nations, and organizations have a great responsibility in enabling people to either consume low-impact products and services or to bring transparency to the mix in regard of what impact does what product and service carry. Now, we need to think about what is organizations and companies and structures built on? They're built on individuals, right? And we need to educate the individuals around their impact in order to act on it in any, any shape or form, any responsibility or context that they act upon. So if we build bottom up, we know that top down is going to work out quite well. But if we only build top down, we're going to need to have buy-in from, from the individuals. So to me, it's not an either or, it's a both. And there is a fair amount of conversation around we shouldn't put the blame on the individual, we shouldn't put the blame on consumption, we shouldn't leave people without the proper solutions to act on this. I couldn't disagree with those statements, of course, but I couldn't disagree more with the fact that any other entity is built of individuals. And if we have, if we, if we take care of the cents, I think the euros will work itself out. So Large institutions are going to be influenced by the leadership, and the leadership will always be individual. What we're looking at is we've been working with this since 2016, you know, making every transaction count. And now we're doing it also on product level with a 2030 calculator and on individual level to give everyone a ballpark idea together with the UN and UNFCCC through the lifestyle calculator. But what we also see is that The intention is greater than the action. So not only do we need to provide best-in-class data in regard of your climate impact, but we're also looking at accelerating our efforts in regard of behavioral change, using leading academia within behavioral science and, and expertise, investing in that over many years to make it work for good, using behavioral science to to do more in a good way rather than consume more that has negative impact in some cases. So the behavioral science component coming into the economy offering and assisting banks in becoming more relevant in their relationships in the financial services market with their users, becoming the platforms of, of change rather than just the platforms of transaction. I think is the— this is a bright-looking future for the financial services industry out of a retail banking as well as an SME banking perspective. We have a great partnership today together with Dreamstech, that is the market leader in the behavioral science space, and have a great track record around creating a more sustainable financial lifestyle for the many, de-stressing people around their financial situation and assisting them in regard of savings and debt management and investments, bringing, I'd say, financial inclusion and climate inclusion closer and making use of the power of consumption, but directing it for the good of both the individual as well as the planet.

It makes sense. Money focuses people's minds. Companies, governments are made of people, and it's individuals who have responsibility and agency over addressing climate change. You may even say that anyone offering and campaigning for climate solutions is a climate activist. Does Mattias feel like one?

I was actually thinking about this a few weeks ago because I really admire the activists. I really admire the passion and the grit. And sometimes I feel like I should be there side by side with them by the coal mines or the factories. And maybe one day I will see that as the most efficient, but I think for now my role is, is by enabling rather than protesting. So I wouldn't know. I think I would call myself a factivist. So I'm trying to get facts across so that people can act on facts that are reliable and best in class and comparable so that you can also see your, your progress compared to others. So if you were to refer to me as a climate factivist, that would make me very proud. And in all fairness, I'm coming back to media's role in this. I think you guys play pretty much the same role, right? You are also activists in the climate, in the climate space, bringing tangible data and true, true reporting to, to the many so that everyone can make their mind up and how I'm deciding on how to contribute. And that's where I think language are utterly important so that we're not creating a language that is disqualifying of those not socializing with, with, with the climate crisis every day. And I also think that data is a language that is a very efficient one, making use of the, of the numbers to bridge the intention-action gap in, in going forward. You don't need to know only what does harm, but also the effects of you trying to do good.

The media does have a role to play, and I hope we're contributing with our work here at Sustainable Views. But back to the startup space. The combination of financial technology and climate data seems like a pretty appealing destination for investors. Is money flowing in these types of companies?

I think you're absolutely right that in the observation that the climate tech and the climate fintech or impact tech category for venture capital is the most resilient. Right now because the need is obvious. And where the need is obvious, there is— converted to financial lingo, I would say there is a demand side, right? So people are keen to invest in the supply side. I think to economy, I'm proud to see that we are considered the market leader in our part of that ecosystem. But what does that, what does that mean really? Well, it means that we get to speak and interact with a lot of brilliant minds. We get to meet a lot of people of influence that can contribute to reducing the impact. And that is what brings hope to me as an individual that I see. And I understand that there is a lot of people that are by far smarter than I am that is working on this solution as well. So that brings hope to my heart. And, and that is something that keeps our energy going. However, we've seen now under 2019, 2020, 2021, when money came at no cost and carbon was like the new gold. Anyone with an idea could climb it on the ticket and said, you know, you better fund this. That is going to rinse away now. Unfortunately, there is still great ideas and great teams out there that will be, you know, impacted by this in a negative way. And at Toconomy, having the traction and the success that we've been fortunate enough to have, we see it also as our responsibility to help those trying to do good. So if you're a startup, you know, in an early stage and you're trying to, to get funded or to get out there and get reach and recognition and network in 2023, it's going to be difficult. But the economy will be there for you too, because it is part of our responsibility not only to, to act on our progress, but to enable progress of others. A testament to that was that during World Economic Forum in Davos the other week, We set up a Doconomy Stage of Impact, inviting a lot of different startups from around Europe to showcase their stuff, to get them in front of investors, regulators, and other people that can help them on this journey. This is not a man, one man band. This is not a one man show. This is something that we all need to, to contribute to together. And equally as much as it is important to reduce impact, it's equally as important to increase support of those trying.

Right. He's mentioned Davos. How does traveling to a big event abroad fit with the economy's climate goals? Matthias is based in Stockholm, not in the Swiss Alpine resort hosting the big annual gathering of the World Economic Forum.

Yes. So I have this, I have this promise to my, I have two children, one son and one daughter. And I promised them that I'm not going to get on a plane unless I can convince people that can reach 20,000 individuals and influence them to reduce their impact. Otherwise, it's going to be a video call or an email. And that's my rule kind of thing, my set of rules. But I'm not implying that anyone else should play by the same rules. But to me, that makes sense kind of thing. And I think it is important to to balance your impact in regard of what can reduce and what can influence and the negative impact from the very action that it has. Davos has been criticized by many, rightfully so, with all of the private jets flying in. And, you know, you're, you're utterly surprised that how can these guys sit around and discuss the climate crisis? But I think it's important also to remember what kind of powers that are put in motion when these people meet. I think that was my experience coming out of there, was I was extremely inspired and I was sort of high on hope because I met so many powerful and brilliant individuals that are working hard to make this, make this shift come through. And from many different perspectives, looking at what the UN Women are doing out of a out of a gender and representation perspective, looking at the climate crisis, looking at what DreamsTech are doing out of a behavioral science perspective. How can we assist people to change their behavior by, by hyper-nudging or by inspiring? And also looking at what I learned from Commerz Ventures and their Climate FinTech report. What is it that gets funded nowadays? Where does money go? Because where money goes, you know, attention flows and I think that is also an indicator of sorts what we as, as companies find important today.

There is something else that we should consider here. In addition to attracting funds, influencing decision makers and supporting others also trying to come up with solutions, climate startups need to attract people with the right set of skills and experience.

No, I couldn't agree more. And I think If you're going to a dentist, you might not want to go to the cheapest dentist. Uh, you want to go to someone that is skilled and experienced and know what they're doing. And that's exactly the same rationale around, um, the competence in the ESG space that we're recruiting. So the economy has always put an internal, uh, competence at core of what we do. There's two things that are utterly important. Our partnerships, because that's a strategy going forward. We don't believe that we can do this on our own. We need to have great partnerships in place, both out of a leading, leading science and an academia perspective. But we also need to invest seriously, invest in leading sustainability competence within the company. And we have recruited over time from, from the financial services industry, insurance industry, and pointing out where the world is going in order to drive their business. LCA companies and NGOs looking at creating the perfect mix in regard of datasets, in regard of education around those datasets, bringing the data to life. And that's where we meet our partners at a very skilled team within Doconomy led by Helena Kjærnæll, who is our Chief Impact Officer. I'm not sure that many other companies has a Chief Impact Officer. But we need to avoid the, the greenwashing effect. If you bring inferior data or inferior advice to the market, it's just, it's just for show, you know, it's just window dressing. We want to bring best-in-class competence, best-in-class investor-grade data, and put it at the fingertips of daily consumption for, for the private individual, bringing a climate democratizing rather climate action than anything else, because one of the concerns we see is that if we are not accessing best-in-class competence, there is going to be a divide. There will be a divide in the elitistic perspective on climate where there is a language, you know, that people can't relate to. So communication and climate is obviously critical skill sets in the economy. And the other part is that we need to rely on partnerships to bring this to life as well, working very closely with the UNFCCC as well as the World Wildlife Fund. They have years of experience and expertise. You know, we don't have to fix what's not broken. We just need to contribute with additional factors to bring the climate crisis to life in a way that makes you want to act on it and enable you to do the same.

What about its counterparts, established organizations working on climate change? Is there a role risk of competence greenwashing there, where any superficial knowledge around environmental issues is presented as real expertise?

Yes, definitely so, but not necessarily out of an evil kind of, you know, perspective. They might just not know better. And this is where academia and regulators come into play. So what brings hope to me is also when I see leading universities pushing for education that comes down to sustainability metrics or sustainability behavior in regard of reporting and, and calculations and bringing data to the very forefront of these conversations with, with credibility and with UX that makes you actually want to use it. So I think the academia has a very, very important role to play in this sense. And I also think that the regulators will provide comfort for those not knowing, you know, equally as much as everyone else. The regulators can say, this is what you need to do. And if you do that, you will know enough to get the conversation going. And that's where our SME tool is, is also part of the mix because we want to help companies that are, you know, working hard to survive to begin with, but also to give them an idea around their environmental impact, how to reduce it, and how to be relevant in procurement processes. If you look at the carbon taxes and the carbon borders coming into play, unless we enable the, the micro SMEs or the SMEs in, in emerging economies to participate in this market, we're going to widen the divide between North and South. Right. And we will block entrepreneurs in emerging economies from exporting to our markets due to metrics that they can't meet. So we need to make climate action inclusive. So I would say it's more about climate inclusion than financial inclusion from now on.

So it's about consciousness and inclusion and cooperation. We will continue to talk about all of this in the next episodes of Sustainable Views. But that's it for today's show. I will add links to any relevant articles in the show notes. Also, before I sign off, the figure I mentioned right at the beginning, those 800+ startups in Europe, that information is from Sifted, which is a media brand backed by the Financial Times and co-founded by FT innovation editor John Thornhill, a friend of Sustainable Views. I wanted to mention them as Sifted was launched as a startup itself and John is a true inspiration. Many thanks as always go to John Rogers, my producer. And we will find each other again in 2 weeks for the next episode of Sustainable Views, the podcast.