Breaking News: How Visa's Credit Card Changes Impact Small Businesses | B2B Vault | Episode 161

Yo, what's up everybody? It's Justin live from B2B Vault, the payment technology podcast sponsored by Nationwide Payment Systems, hosted by this guy, the Wayne Gretzky of payment processing himself, Allen Kopelman. And we'll be providing you educational information about fintech, small business payment processing and the technology businesses are using in the world today. And in today's podcast, uh, we wanted to talk about the 3 things that Visa's got planned for change in, uh, 2023. Uh, Allen's excited. He threw his vacation fiesta hat off, you know, his nice straw hat, uh, throwing that in the sky, waving side to side. Yeah, anyway, so there's some big changes coming to Visa, and, uh, Allen wanted to talk about it, and so here we are today talking about those changes. Yeah, what's up, man? What you gonna do this weekend?

This weekend, I don't know, we'll see. It's pretty muggy out. I don't know if we're gonna have rain.

It's supposed to rain all weekend.

It's not going to be good for any outside stuff. I have to find some movies.

There's a lot of good movies out.

Yeah.

Did you watch the new The Last Kingdom movie about the Vikings?

No, I didn't watch that.

It's supposed to be pretty good, I guess. I watched the series. I didn't— I haven't watched the—

I watched the new series that I finished up called The Diplomat. That was pretty interesting. I like that. Spies, you know, spies.

Oh, I love spy espionage.

Yeah, espionage.

One of my, uh, favorite movies is the one with, uh, what, the Bourne movies?

No.

Oh, those are good. Yeah, but Spy Game with, um—

oh yeah, Robert Redford.

Robert Redford. Yeah, Robert Redford is a great actor. Yeah, if you don't like that movie, there's something about you. There's—

you know what else?

You don't know what it is.

Binged was, uh, when I was sick a couple weeks, Night Agent. That was really good.

Yeah, my dad likes that.

Very good. I hope they come out with a season 2. Season 1 was based on a book. It was very, very good. Yeah, I was supposed to watch, uh, Mandalorian last weekend with my wife, but someone needs to figure out like all these pay channels and like Xfinity, Comcast, whatever. You need to come up with like a package like, oh, you want this, this, this, and this, just click it all off. Like, all this stuff is a mess.

It's never going to be that way. It's going to be the same. Each one is going to have their own subscription price, and that's what it is. And it's been— they've been building that up. I, I mean, we've been watching it happen for what, past 10 years at least.

It's nuts. But I was reading a blog about some guy, and he's like, oh yeah, I have a rotating thing. I do these 3, then I cancel them, then I sign up for these 3.

I do the same thing.

That's all right, for these 3, then I can't— I watch everything. Yeah, I cancel it, then I go back to the first 3.

Yeah, when Power is done On Starz, I cancel and then I wait till it comes back on.

Yeah.

Um, there's a couple of them that I do.

They're saying if they made this stuff like more affordable package, people wouldn't do— have to do all this stuff.

I think that would— at the end of the day though, what the real— what's going to end up happening is people are just going to— there's going to be no television networks. Yeah, well, there'll be networks, but they'll know there won't be like, uh, you know the, your standard TV, you're not going to have that. You're going to subscribe to whatever news station that you like. So if you get all of your information from Fox, yeah, you're going to pay that subscription and that's the channel you get. And then if you want, you know, Nickelodeon checkboxes, they should do it that way, like an à la carte thing. Yeah, that makes sense.

I want this, like I have to buy a special sports package because My— I like to watch SEC sports, Florida Gators, so you have to get the sports package to get the SEC channel, right? Because my daughter, God forbid she misses a Gator game. Yeah, can't miss the Gators.

Go Badgers!

Go Badgers! Yeah, we had the NFL Draft. I don't know what went on with that, we're not going to talk about it. I don't know who the Dolphins got. I don't care, no idea.

I know that there's a— I do know this about the NFL Draft. Yeah, there's a kid who is from Wisconsin. He's not from Milwaukee, but he went to North Waukesha and he got selected. He's going to be playing on the Jets with Aaron Rodgers.

Nice.

So that's, you know, it's a little coincidence.

I think that was the big talk, bigger than the draft, was the Aaron Rodgers trade from Green Bay. Did you see all the picks the Packers got? Yeah, they probably cleaned house. Yeah, they had almost 20 picks. Joe came out and he said, oh, if you want to play, wear 12, you could wear 12, but Aaron Rodgers said no, he's going back to his college, to number 8, right? Yeah, his college number.

Oh, that's cool though.

He didn't want to—

I'm excited to see Jordan Love, you know what I mean? Like, he's been sitting up underneath— he's the same thing that was with Aaron Rodgers with Brett Favre, you know? So what about— and what's really funny about that Where did Brett Favre go when he left the Packers?

Oh yeah, to the Jets.

And then where? He went to the Vikings.

Vikings.

The Vikings. Sorry, all the Minnesota Vikings fans.

Look at, uh, in New England, you know.

Yeah, I heard that they're just gonna trade him out to out west. So the Jets are trading him out west.

Who trade who?

Aaron Rodgers.

They're gonna trade him?

Yeah, because, you know, Aaron Rodgers is from out on the West Coast. Yeah, he's from, uh, Malibu area.

He's not even gonna play for the Jets.

I don't think so.

That's weird.

Okay, it's all a— it's all like a big, big, a big, a big, uh, shell game. Yes.

So let's talk about what Visa's doing.

Let's talk about it.

So the first thing is this thing, this subject matter is being talked about non-stop in all the industry groups that I'm in on Facebook and LinkedIn and emails nonstop is this whole thing where Visa came out, lowered the surcharge from 4% to 3%, and Mastercard came out after that and said, no, we're going to leave it at 4%, which that kind of like upsets the whole Apple Card. And then everybody's that said, you know, that And then there's a whole argument because I don't know why Visa just doesn't, doesn't like address the elephant in the room. But there you have this thing, the Durbin Amendment, that's a federal law. So how does what Visa wants to do trump the Durbin Amendment, which allowed for 4%? I can't make heads or tails of it. Is it going to go to court, not go to court? You know, and then you have this whole thing like people have this cash discount program. Non-cash adjustment, convenience fee, service fee, service charge, customer assistance fees, whatever you want to call it, right? And then businesses are passing all kinds of fees— 2%, 3%, 4%, 3.5%, whatever it is, right?— to the, uh, to the customer, you know. But Visa is not addressing that whole thing. Whatever you want to call it, cash discount, dual pricing, whatever, they're not addressing the elephant in the room. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, the genie popped out of the bottle a few years ago with this whole cash discount, and then, you know, the pandemic happened, and then the genie went wild. It was like it went— turned from like I Dream of Jeannie into the Green Genie because it just spread like wildfire. You know, and I think Visa make this move, maybe say, oh well, we're just going to scare people, right? I don't know. I don't know what they're going to do. They said they're going to find people. Who knows what they're going to do? They're going to send out secret shoppers. Is that true or is that just a scare tactic? We don't know. We're gonna have to see this all play out. I personally think it's going to play out in the courts eventually because—

so why would they even want to do it though?

Who knows? Because they don't like it. They don't like that merchants are passing the fee to the, to the customer. They don't like it for their brand image.

Do they not like it, or is it Congress put pressuring these—

Congress had nothing to do with it, because why? They could have just changed the Durbin Amendment, amended it.

You're not changing that.

No, I'm just saying they could have. I mean, Durbin has his other amendment, that thing he tried to stuff it in about 7 or 8 different bills. A couple of them were military bills. It was a big joke. That guy, they all got kiboshed.

That guy's hilarious.

I mean, you know, I wish Senator Durbin would just like call me on the phone, say, hey, Allen Kopelman, you know, come on up to Washington, DC.

You got some good ideas, you want to talk to me?

Explain the credit card business to us. We'll give you 2 hours, we'll go in the room, you explain how it all works. And then that so we can have a better understanding of what the credit card system looks like because they don't have no clue. I mean, based on the questions they ask like witnesses and stuff, that it just shows like their lack of understanding of financials, of a few things. Financial literacy, the financial system, financial literacy. How does credit card processing work? And it shows that they've never owned a business. It literally shows like these people have never owned a business.

This is not a 40 of Mickey's for everyone that's watching. This is Mountain Valley Spring Water. Uh-oh, it doesn't— it looks like a 40 of Mickey's though.

Remember they used to have that? They still have that, the Mickey's Wide Mouth.

That's what I'm talking about.

Looks like a pickle thing.

The Mickey's Wide Mouth beer, the malt liquor.

No, it's, it's Mickey's but it's a— has a— what?

It has a wide mouth bottle, right? Yeah, we used to call them grenades because they look like grenades.

So this whole thing is very confusing, you know. So if you have a question, what about what kind of program you're on? Are you using cash discount, dual pricing, and you don't understand anything about it? No one can answer your questions? We'll try to answer them.

Give us a call, man.

Give us a call.

Hit us up on the emails, go to b2bvault.info. There's some forms for you to fill out. Go ahead and do it.

Yeah, and we'll answer your questions. We always give a free consultation. Now here's one that doesn't surprise me, but I've seen it on a bunch of statements lately. Non-EMV transactions. So all of a sudden EMV went into effect 2015. Now they've been cracking down on like the ATM machines, giving us fines for the last year on non-EMV transactions. I mean, it's a joke because like we don't have control. Someone walks up to an ATM, they put their card in there, and then for whatever reason the chip is damaged, right? And then it reads the mag stripe. I mean, there's no chargebacks because the person has to put in their PIN number. But for the first time last week, we got 2 EMV chargebacks. They didn't win them because the person tried to claim no EMV was read. You can see it all, whatever. They can tell right in the machine.

So why?

It's so— it's stupid for 10 cents, bro. Yeah, then we get a 10 cent— no. So that—

what would they get for—

oh, they would get their money back that they got out.

Oh, I get that the person would.

Yeah.

So But now that— but you would think the company like would be like not trying to give money back.

Yeah, exactly. Like, I don't know.

I don't get it.

It's the banks that are sending through the EMV chargebacks, which is stupid because we have to show that we have EMV readers on the machine. They can see that there's an EMV reader and they can see it's an EMV transaction, yet they send through the chargeback. Just doesn't make sense. And then because one of them was the guy first complained he didn't get his money Then he tried to do an EMV chargeback. So we had sent this paperwork in twice.

People are douchebags.

Non-EMV transactions, they're saying that there's— if a merchant has more than 10% of their transactions non-EMV, meaning that they read the mag stripe, they're going to give them a 10-cent fine for each one.

So every time I pay them, they're going to get So if it's $3.50, they're going to get $3.40.

No, well, they're going to get a 10-cent additional fee, but that's if they're—

oh, they're going to take their—

oh yeah, if it's 10%. But if you have a merchant, right, let's say he only does 100 transactions in a month, 10% is 1. So if the guy gets 2 or 3 in a month, which is not a lot, all of a sudden the guy's got a 30-cent— but some banks are taking it farther. And adding like a 10— adding like extra basis points.

It sounds like they're just doing whatever they want to do.

Well, I guess some of the credit card processors are, you know, putting out more, you know, adding on to that fee to make it a profit margin. That's not the other thing is, you know, you know, so I would say check your bills, make sure. We had somebody come to us and I said, hey, you guys got cameras over there? So they found out that people were going up to the pin, the the customer-facing PIN pad, and instead of sticking the chip in, they were just slide— sliding their card. And then at another place, people were sticking the chip in and it wasn't working, and then they had to slide the card because something wasn't programmed correctly for debit. They weren't a client, so I said, hey, have somebody check this. If you're not happy with what they did, call us back and we'll, you know, apply to us. We'll take over the processing, make sure everything's programmed correctly.

Did they?

Um, yeah, one guy did call back because they told them that they couldn't fix it. We fixed it.

There you go.

It was not a big deal. The guy applied to us, we sent out new equipment.

So if you need some equipment, if you're still sitting there letting people swipe your card, bro, like, come on, it's, it's a wrap for that.

NationwidePaymentsystems.com. Yeah, I went in the doctor and let me tell you, doctor's offices, they're famous for this. You go to the doctor's office, they got old software, they still use a magstripe reader, right? They don't even have EMV. I'm like, what are you guys doing? So now they're going to get fined for that. So welcome to the fines.

Well, I will say most doctors I know are really frugal.

Yeah, well, they're cheap.

We could just say cheap, right? So once the new stuff— they got no choice, then they're gonna upgrade.

No, they're gonna have to upgrade now.

So let us know, man, we can help you out.

We can help you out. We're, we're working on a solution for—

what else you got for this?

Uh, that's something you should be checking your bill on.

And then number 3.

Number 3 is chargebacks. So, so they may— this is cool for some e-commerce merchants, and it'll stop a lot of friendly fraud. So they're calling this compelling evidence 3.0. What is it? This is a new way for e-commerce merchants to fight friendly fraud or illegitimate chargebacks by proving records of previous transactions to counter the claim of fraud.

So actually, this is cool, right? So because I know somebody that actually just— they were able to do this.

Yeah, well, this just started this month.

Well Maybe it was through PayPal.

Oh, okay.

So this was a way that they were, they, they were able to provide evidence that this person was buying the same product every month, right?

So this gives you the chance. So let's just say Justin sells, has a website, and he sells socks. And I come, the whatever customer comes to Justin's website, they buy socks in January, they come back in March and buy socks. They come back in April and buy socks, and they come again at the end of April, buy more socks, and then they go, "Oh, this is a fraudulent transaction. I didn't— I never bought socks. It's fraud." Then Justin now can go into his records and prove that Customer A bought socks from him 3 previous times, and he shipped it to the same address all 4 times. In fact, no, you know, now Justin's going to win that transaction. Whereas before, they would— the bank would just say, "Oh, it's fraud. Sorry." Give me my money! They would take and give the money back to them, to the cardholder, which I didn't agree with. Or let's say another situation, you have Allen's special Rocky software, you know, named after my dog, and it's a SaaS product, right?

Because he's sassy.

Because it's— and let's say it's $70 a month and You know, Merchant Customer B signs up for it, they have it for 6 months, and then all of a sudden they claim fraud. Now I could go back and say, well, they paid for it for the last 6 months, and I can look at my records and make sure they accessed it, they accessed the software. So did they access it?

Gosh darn it, that's my, that's my one thing where I, if I'm trying to get out of something, yeah. I always say that, like, man, how did I— when did I sign up for this?

Yeah.

So, and then they'll be like, well, you signed up this—

when did I log in? Right.

That's the—

right. So if they— if you— the person logged in every month a bunch of times, they're going to be able to show that. They're going to win the chargeback. So this is going to— because a lot of times what happens is people will end up charging the transaction like that back on a SaaS company to charge back 2 or 3 months. Now that's not going to be so easy, especially if they're using the software. I was talking to a guy the other day and he goes, oh, we have people that buy SaaS software from— we have a SaaS product and it's $55 a month. So I said, well, what do you do? You know, how do you control like chargebacks? Because, oh, if somebody doesn't log in for 30 days, we cancel their account to stop chargebacks.

That's really smart.

And I was like, wow, that's a really good idea.

That is a good idea. Yeah, so because, because then the person's not going to trip about the, the, the— what it was, it's $70.

It was $50, $55 a month.

It's $110 for, you know, like—

yeah, well, they used it for 2 months and then the 3rd month—

but that's what I'm saying.

So they paid for the 3rd month anyway. So they, they don't log in, so they cancel it. They don't charge them for the 4th month.

That's really— that's, that's a good business model.

So I like that, you know, and, and also the FTC is putting some rules where they want anybody who has a SaaS product to have an easy way for people to cancel. Because that's one thing, if you have a SaaS product and you don't have an easy way for me to cancel my thing, I have to send you an email and you don't have a button on your website to go cancel it, uh, you are going to get 3 chargebacks. And this rule is not going to work for you because that's, that, that's what Visa says. Visa's— the Visa card rules say you have to have a way for people to cancel. If you don't have a way for people to cancel, then you— we had a situation, we had something we paid for and they kept charging us and we told them to cancel it because it was just—

yeah, that was, that was a pretty interesting—

credit card and I canceled it and they gave me back 3 months because, you know, of it because they didn't have a way to cancel it.

The visitor— what, the, the place, the visitor thing? Yeah, that's funny because the one woman— anyway, I'm glad you got all the money back because I like the—

I like the, the idea, the concept of it.

It was nice, you know, like, but what you guys were selling and what you were given were two different things.

Yeah, I don't like that.

And yeah, so I'm glad that you got your money because I canceled it. You were in the room with me when I canceled it. Yeah, we canceled it, and then we— you got billed again the following month. And I'm sitting there like, didn't you— you asked me, like, I thought you canceled this. I thought you said— I thought we canceled this.

Yeah, we did. And I'm like, we did. You told me you had to fill a form out, right? And then they get— they didn't cancel it. So no, being that they didn't have a cancellation button on the site, the credit card whacked them for 3 months. So you have to follow the rules as a merchant.

See, they were, they were that company. Come to find out they're not a United States company.

No, it's not.

No, that was a UK company.

That's weird. They have a U.S. merchant account because they didn't— there was no foreign transaction fees.

It's probably smart. Well, they probably got an office.

That's the whole thing. You want to make sure how to fight chargebacks effectively. Make sure that on your checkout page You have checkboxes. And also, when you're fighting chargebacks, don't be sending in pictures of your website, what it looked like 3 years ago, if you changed it. Because there's our lawsuit where one of the chargeback companies being sued because they're saying they sent in checkout pages that people didn't use because maybe that's what they had pictures of from when the guy first signed up. And then go check that maybe they changed the checkout page.

Wow. So that's a little petty, but whatever.

Make sure your checkout— I tell people all the time, listen, you, your website has to have terms and conditions, privacy policy, return policy, refund policy. On the checkout page, have people check a box, I agree to the terms and conditions. Make sure you have shipping times on your website. Make sure there's a way for people to able to track their package so they know when they're getting their package. That way you cut down on chargebacks. Also have a phone number that's answered all the time. You get an answering service, they're cheap. I, when I first got in business, I tell the story all the time, I got a doctor's answering service. It was really cheap, was like 20— it was like $30 a month. They answered the phone. We were never in the office in the beginning, right?

Right.

Answered the phone all the time. And then back then, you know, there was not really texting. So we had a beeper and they could type a message to the beeper and then you would see, hey, this guy called from this business, call him with his phone number. You just call the person on the phone.

For those that don't know how a beeper works.

Right. So it was pretty cool. Yeah. Listen, that was—

hey, that's a long time ago, man.

2001, man.

And then, and also back in those days, You were using a beeper in 2001?

Yeah, because the text messaging— there was not really text messaging. So the thing— this was the other funny thing. Well, when you had to send a text, it wasn't like today where you got a keyboard on there.

Oh yeah, no, no, you got to do all that weird stuff. T9, baby.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's way over y'all millennials' heads right there.

Exactly. Like a rotary— show a millennial rotary phone, they'll be like, what is that?

I seen this one kid, there was a video, I don't know, and they could not figure it out, like how to use the phone, how to dial out. Yeah, they were counting, they were like, no, you gotta count how many times it's cir— I was like, yo, the numbers are on there, man.

Yeah, they could not figure out how to make a phone call. Anyway, that was a crazy video. And, uh, the So yeah, so you just got to make sure everything on your website is in order. That way you can win chargebacks. And also, speaking of chargebacks, I'm going to tell two sad stories about chargebacks.

Uh-oh.

If you have a business, okay, so I'm going to talk about the first one is auto repair, okay? So here's the auto repair place. When you go— let me ask you, I'm just going to throw the question at you. If you're going to get your car repaired for $4,000, you're gonna— you gotta come to the car place to get your car, right?

Yes.

Okay, so the car place, I guess they wanted to get paid earlier, so they key-entered the transaction. Now the guy's doing a chargeback. I go, because they don't even have a signature. Of the guy or anything.

Why did they do that?

I'm like, man, you guys cannot do that. The guy's coming— it doesn't even make sense. Even in the visa rules, they're going to say you're not an internet business, you're supplying a physical service, right?

So that was just dumb, right?

So you can't do that. I told them, I says, you could try, but you're not going to win the chargeback. You have to take the guy to court. That's— but that's kind of—

why would the guy do that though? Just to get off, just to get over.

Yeah. And then another one was a guy brought two cars into a place, asked how much it was going to be for repair, paid the deposit. You know, he ran— they ran the card while the guy was there, then he paid over the phone. And then that guy also is beating that, did a chargeback, and it's complete outright fraud. That was two auto repair places in the last week.

So the— I would say the people that are doing that are just straight scamming.

Yeah, they're scammers. They're straight.

So they're getting their car fixed for free?

Yes.

And they figured out a little gray area.

Yeah, they say, oh, I can't come, I'm gonna send my son to come pick the car up, I'll give you my credit card number over the phone. No, don't do that in any way. I don't care what business you have, do not do that. You have a business where someone has to come there physically Then this last one really upset me. So it was one of my clients and they sell commercial kitchen equipment. And I see the chargeback and I go, is there a delivery slip? No, the guy came and picked it up in a truck. And I, I'm looking at the receipt and I'm like, are you guys kidding me? That first of all, I Googled the name of what the business was. I couldn't find it on internet. I went on Sunbiz, which is the state of Florida website where you can look up corporations and DBA names. Couldn't find it. Then I looked at the address and I highlighted it, hit Google search. It was some old-ass house in Winter Haven, Florida. Then I looked up— then I took the guy's phone number. He had a 786 phone number. So what's a person with a 786 Miami phone number Some restaurant in Winter Haven, but the address is a house, not a business, gets 2 brand new stoves, almost $8,000, commercial Vulcan stoves. Those things are probably sold to somebody for cash, and they're not winning that chargeback. There's no way to charge that. They, they have no signature of the guy, no nothing. I mean, why would you do that?

So then what, the guy just walked in there and he just used the card?

No, they paid— the guy paid in advance and then he came to the warehouse and picked it up with a truck.

And now he's doing a—

oh, those stoves are gone. Wherever they went, somebody got—

yeah, that's terrible.

You can't do that if you have a business.

Well, they ain't getting them for free. I'm sure the guy sold them.

Yeah, he sold them, but they, they lost two stoves for sure. So they're out the money. But you know, I'm like, why would you do that? I'm like, If the person's coming there to pick it up, tell them to bring the card, run the card in the machine. That's what you got a machine for.

Listen to Allen.

I mean, that's why you have a machine. The machine, you get the chip in there even if it's not the guy's card. But you know, you got to make sure, like if somebody walks in and it doesn't look like the right name, it's a woman's name, I mean, you have the right to ask people for ID. I mean, I always tell people, go into Brandsmart, go to City Furniture, Rooms To Go, go by.

I don't care where you— at Target, if you make a big enough purchase, they're going to ask you for your driver's license.

They ask for your driver's license. They want to make sure the name on the driver's license matches the credit card. And why would somebody who has an address in Winter Haven drive all the way down to Miami to come pick up two stoves? And there's so much used equipment. But, you know, I don't know, that was not— I was not happy.

I was like, did you tell the guy, the owner, like Yeah, you gotta do a little better.

I was like, I think I said, you guys have to check things more.

How much are they really out of with that?

Probably half the money and probably a good markup.

No, I'm just saying, like, how much were those?

Who knows? They were— it was like almost $8,000 for two stoves. They must have been some— they were nice, man. I looked at them. Vulcan, 6 burners. I mean, that was just like, you know, top of the line stoves with the convection.

The business owner, you guys.

No, but I'm just—

some people are like nuts.

I mean, I would be like— I asked myself, you guys got cameras? Like, I mean, I would be checking like the camera, the, the license plate on the truck. Let's say the guy rented a U-Haul truck, man, I would be down to U-Haul.

Oh yeah, what truck is that?

Who rented it? I'd be calling the popo. I mean, I told them what I would do.

I'd call my friend who's still got Security clearance in the United States Air Force.

I'm just saying, like, you can't do this kind of stuff. You just can't do it. It's this recipe to get your money stolen from you. We're in a bad economy. The thieves are out. They're out thieving and trying to steal money from everybody. Just like, don't fall for the ERC scam.

We got a call today for the ERC scam.

Do not fall for that. The IRS put out a notice about it. Do not use third-party companies. The FTC put a notice out about it.

Just—

and don't walk by my booth and ask me to refer clients to you.

Allen was going to knock this guy out yesterday, man.

That was hilarious. I asked him nice to go away from the booth once, then I came over and I said, I'm not asking you again. I was like, just go away, we don't want to talk to you. So here's another thing with chargebacks that's kind of new. It's been around, but now there's been a few changes. So RDR, what is RDR? RDR is a Rapid Dispute Resolution. So this is a really cool product. What's good about this product is this is a way to keep your chargebacks down, especially if you have a, uh, you know, you're a software-based company, you know, not physical product, maybe physical product, but let's get into like the whole thing about what it is. So RDR used to have to go get a third-party, third-party chargeback company that they run the RDR for you. But now guess what? We can give it to you. We have it through our credit card processor.

Nice.

So through one of our processors, they offer it. So it's great, it's awesome, save you a bunch of money. You don't have to use a third party for it and save you bunch of money on chargebacks. It's awesome.

I like it.

Literally awesome. So how does this work? RDR. RDR is a new method to reduce chargebacks. Do you need a special company to do this? Yes or no? If the credit card processor you work with has integrated this into their system, then you don't. But we have it, so if you want it, talk to us. So, so If the— this is how it works. If a transaction is disputed, it's refunded. A chargeback is no longer needed. You decide which disputes you're willing to accept and which ones you are not. So you base it on reason code.

So this guy, you'd be like, yeah, he didn't get his stuff, so we're going to send his money back. Or this guy, he got his stuff, but he's full of shit. He's not getting his money back.

It could be based on reason codes or dollar amount. So here's some examples of where it would work well. Digital products, let's say a SaaS product like you charge a monthly fee for, maybe some insurance, recurring orders, things like that. Now chargeback fees are $25, $15 to $20, or they could be $35 to $50 each.

$50?

Yeah, if you're a high-risk merchant. So let's say you have a product and it's inexpensive— you have an inexpensive product like we were talking to those guys, the dropshippers, right? They're perfect for RDR. Everything they sell is like $10 to $20, $30 the most.

They should be—

or somebody doesn't like it, they do file a chargeback, the RDR button, boom, RDR that, RDR, RDR, RDR. So you set up a rule for RDR, everything under, let's say, $30, $35, you you just RDR it. You don't even fight it.

Nice.

That way, they—

even though they filed, it's got to save a lot of time.

They didn't— they filed the chargeback with their bank, but it went into the RDR system first, and then the rule said give them back the money. Boom. You don't even have to deal with it. Then you just take them and put them on your—

so then the bank would be like, oh, you already got your money.

Where— yeah, there's no chargeback. Doesn't count towards chargeback. Backs. So it's awesome if you have a low-ticket item. This is an awesome way how to reduce your chargebacks. We can save you a ton of money because you don't need a third party to do it, right? So that's awesome things. And the RDR, you know, hopefully more of the processors put it into their system, but right now we have one of them that has. So that's the one we recommend people to use for e-commerce, especially for SaaS things, so they can save a ton of money.

So that's it.

So that's what's going on. So we talked, we covered the cash discount surcharging issue, which is up in the air. We talked about the non-EMV. If you don't have an EMV reader, you need to get one because probably the fines are going to get worse.

I would, I would imagine that the fines are going to go And people are gonna get more wiser to this, so then you're just gonna get—

well, it's an automatic chargeback.

That's what I'm saying. You're just— people are gonna start getting more smarter and smarter and knowing that, oh, they can go into your business and do a chargeback.

So get an EMV. If you don't have EMV readers, get EMV readers. No, medical, that— they're probably the one that has the most non-EMV transactions because it's a low chargeback business, except for dentists. People scam dentists all the time.

I wouldn't scam my dentist, but I just—

no, there are— I know a bunch of dentists that got scammed.

That sucks. I don't like to hear about anybody getting scammed.

I've heard lots of stories.

My daughter just tried to buy a pair of sneakers online and she sent the guy almost $300.

Uh-oh.

No sneakers.

That's why you got to use a credit card, not these alternative payment methods.

Yep, that's what I told her. I said, you know, as soon as you sent that money via Cash App, it was gone.

Yeah.

So she said, well, I, I canceled the transaction. I said, it's gone. There's nothing you can do about that.

Yeah, the only thing you can do is complain to Cash App and say that maybe they'll cut the person off if they're a scammer.

Maybe.

And then we talked about chargebacks, the new rule with Compelling Evidence 3.0. And then we talked about the RDR, which is also a little bonus.

RDR.

Yeah, the bonus. RDR discussion, because if you didn't know, now you know, right? So that's what's going on. There's a whole slew of more stuff, but these were the more interesting things that can— that's gonna either help or harm businesses. But I think these were 3 important things, plus I threw in the RDR as a bonus.

Bingo!

So thank you for listening to B2B Vault today. Carpe diem.

Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube. Please subscribe to the channel, turn on notifications so you never miss another episode. Um, yeah, head over to b2bvault.info if you want to sign up or have any questions, you want to be a guest. There's some forms on there. I fixed the forms. They— shout out to the person who wanted to be a guest on the show. They said that It was telling her that she was not a human. So if that's happened to anybody else, you are a human. We believe that you're a human. We love you. Thanks for listening. Try again, it's fixed. So, uh, yeah, man, that's all I got.

That's it.

See you soon.

Peace. Okay, there we go.