Hans Skillrud Makes Creating Company Policies EASIER | Biz To Biz Podcast

Welcome to the Biz to Biz Podcast, your number one source for all business news. Hey everybody, welcome to today's episode of B2B Vault. B2B Vault sponsored by Nationwide Payment Systems. And today we're going to be talking about crazy stuff with Hans Skilrud of Termageddon, which sounds super, super scary, right? This is like a scary name. But he sent me— I don't remember if we connected on LinkedIn or something. I saw this guy's website and I was like, I have to talk to him. This sounds so cool. Well, you know, it's a lot of things involving the payments business, and business is not always fun to talk about. This is a really cool product, and this is something that can help many, many, many business owners who struggle with website things. So, Hans, welcome to the show. And why don't you just tell us a little bit about your business.

Well, thanks for having me, Allen. We had just a nice chat prior to getting this recording going. I'm looking forward to today's chat. So, so yeah, my name is Hans. I'm one of the co-founders of Termageddon. We are a website policies solution. So privacy policies, terms, cookie policies, cookie consents, disclaimers. And don't hang up or, you know, don't, don't end this podcast right away because I promise, although it may be a little bit of a drier topic, I will try to make things as entertaining as possible. You know, it's kind of wild what's happening with privacy lately. A lot of website owners don't realize that demand letters are coming out for $50 grand in damages or even more. So I feel like getting educated on policies and understanding what you as a website owner can do to protect yourself is a really good move. Obviously, I, you know, I have Termageddon to offer, but there's other solutions out there and I want to share them all and hopefully help people just make a good decision for what makes the most sense for them.

Yeah, we, you know, we work with a lot of e-commerce merchants and a lot of times someone will come to us and they'll be like, we'll be like, well, you need to do a few things to your website. And it's always the policies. And then they ask us, where do we get these policies from? Listen, we're not attorneys here at Nationwide Payment Systems. And I don't, you know, I know that people will get stuff out of ChatGPT, but that's also not necessarily a, you know, that's not a solution because ChatGPT is not really a legal— and they're not a lawyer. I mean, they could give you some general information, but, you know, if you're going to put your business on the line and you're going to trust everything to ChatGPT, that might not be the best, the best idea.

I think what I hear, yeah, when people are talking about, I'm going to just use ChatGPT to generate my policies, I, what I hear is, hey, I'm trying to get something up. I don't really care how it gets up. You know, I'm just looking for an end result. I'm not really caring about protecting my business. And, and that's one of the big questions you have to ask yourself. Like, look, like, let's, I think everyone's probably in reasonable agreement, like an AI-generated policy template probably is not the highest likelihood that you're providing all the disclosures you're specifically required to make under each applicable law. But does it get you something really fast? It absolutely does. But yeah, I certainly after Hiring a privacy attorney, I've changed my outlook quite a bit from back in the day. And I'll admit, back in the day, I was running a web design company. I ran a 12-person web design business in downtown Chicago. We were copying and pasting other people's policies all the time. So like, I promise I get it. And, you know, is it the best idea? No, I think everyone can agree. No, it's not the best idea. And really where I think a lot of website owners don't realize this is that you can't just get policies up today and think you're good to go forever. At the time of this recording, and 60— in 59 more days, two more US privacy laws go into effect requiring new disclosures for applicable business owners. You can't just create a policy, a set of policies that comply with today's laws. You have to have a strategy to keep up to date when those laws change. That's a huge benefit to a tool like Termageddon and to hiring an attorney. You know, if you can hire an attorney, that's excellent. Nothing beats hiring an attorney. But if you don't have those types of funds laying around, $119 a year solution like Termageddon could be a good plan B. Yeah, that's super affordable.

That's not a lot of money to spend. I mean, even, you know, like, you know, we have to deal with like GDPR. There's like all these laws involving ADL, which also is kind of weird, but with it, and then you have privacy policies, terms and conditions. It's super important that all of this stuff is on your website because if you do get a chargeback, right, and you don't have policies on your website, you know, covering all these things, privacy, terms and conditions, return, refund, cancellation, right? If you don't have these policies and you don't have checkboxes on your checkout page, you know, you might not win the chargeback because the person is going to say, well, they didn't have a— I didn't check a box agreeing to their policies. So that's why. And they're going to get their money back. And I've seen that happen to businesses. They'll be like, oh, I got all these chargebacks. I just keep losing. Yeah, you're losing because you don't— you didn't set up your your policies correctly and you didn't set up your shopping cart correctly. You know, you have to be— it's important. It is.

Yeah. The fact is, whether we want to face reality or not, the web industry is regulated just like the payments industry. It's right. It's getting— and it's getting more regulated. So what do we as website owners do? We either keep our heads in the sand and hope we never get in trouble. And trust me, that's a strategy I lived with for many years. Or we embrace it. And you're like, you know what? I actually kind of believe in privacy rights. I want to respect the privacy of my website visitors and I want to get ahead of this and represent myself professionally. Also, not to mention, it wouldn't hurt to comply with some laws in the meantime, you know, and really what's happening here is that governments are passing laws to protect and regulate people's data. What does that mean? That means your name is your name, your email is your email, your phone number is your phone number. This is your data as an individual, not company's data. So when companies collect that data, if you're protected under privacy laws, they need to possibly comply apply under the laws that protect you. So I'm in Chicago. However, if I'm collecting data from Californians, for example, 3 of California's privacy laws can apply to me. Um, and, and that's such a big thing to take away as website owners is that privacy laws protect people. They don't care where your business is located. What matters is whose data are you collecting, what privacy laws protect them, and then what disclosures do I need to make under within my own policies to comply with those laws. And a tool like Term Again helps figure that out. Find the laws that apply, make the disclosures under those laws.

And it's like a lot of different things intersect with each other, like privacy policies, privacy laws, and then you have states and federal laws. And then on top of that, you know, you have to deal with like cybersecurity, right? Yeah. And all of these things are intersecting with each other. And one thing that I do notice is when California comes out with a very strict law. The federal government usually follows behind it for some reason, and probably just because of the size of the population, it's like, okay, well, maybe we need to toughen up our law. Or like you saw, California just came out with this click-to-cancel law.

That's right.

And then the FTC turned around and said, okay, well, we have this rule that was a suggestion. And now it's not a suggestion anymore. And it carries a $55,000 fine if you're not complying with click to cancel.

Yep. Yeah, that's so nice talking to someone who knows about these things because not a lot of business owners know that even. Yeah, you need to make it— what is it— make it just as easy to cancel as it is to sign up. And I mean, let's be real, as human beings, that's what we want. When we visit a website and they make it difficult to cancel, like, ugh, like that doesn't feel good for anyone. So I mean, I, me personally, I support that law. Like I think that's fair because as a consumer, I don't want to feel like I have to jump through hoops and call 15 different support phone numbers just to cancel a subscription that took 2 seconds to sign up, but now it's taken 2 months to figure out how to cancel. So, so yeah, I'm a fan of it. Whether you like it or not though, providing that to ensure that you don't get penalized is certainly a good goal for sure.

Yeah, we've gone over with quite a few business owners that we have. We're like, you know, you have to comply with this. And I'm like, it's even worse for you. You're located in California.

Yeah.

And they can come after you criminally for it. They got some pretty stiff— they've got some pretty stiff penalties on it besides what the federal government's going to do. I mean, you know, I look for them— that law goes into effect, I think, in April, and which is today, goes into effect sometime this month. And I look for for them to make an example out of somebody. Well, they let, um, they let a telephone company, the utilities— you can't cancel your utilities bill— and insurance and a few other like companies where like, okay, you're, you know, you're not, you know, you know, you have to do something more than just to cancel. I think the cable companies got a reprieve and the cell phone companies and like that, but everybody else, all these SaaS products and all this companies have to comply.

Well, I'm bummed to hear that the utility companies might squeak out because those are the kind of groups that, man, the last thing you want to do is get on support with one of those groups. And not to bash them all in one, in one swoop, but I've had rough experiences personally dealing with the support of these more like, um, massive, you know, type utility, electric, like your electric service. I mean, if I was ever moving from a, like, an apartment to a home or something, I remember that those time periods and it being rough. Um, and, and yeah, maybe I remember when it was worse.

You had to give them a deposit and you had to pay to get it hooked up. Now it's all just free. You just go online, oh, I'm moving from here to there. I think they make it pretty— I think they make it pretty easy if you say like, oh, moving out of this house, cancel my service. As long as you pay your final bill, you're good to go.

Because that's true. If they have a blog or an article like exactly how to do it, then that— then it becomes a lot easier. Yeah, but 15 years ago, for sure, it was a nightmare.

15 years ago was a complete nightmare.

Yeah.

Oh, but I think like, you know, like I got in into it with my bank the other day. I'm like, okay, so I had a CD at the bank and then it's coming due, and then, you know, they didn't— they— I didn't know that they can just— they wanted to charge me like $50 because I didn't tell them what to do with my money. I'm like, well, I can't transfer the money out of the account, and, you know, I was out of town and they wanted the $50, and I was like, I'm not giving you $50, give me my $50 back. You know, I called the bank and you guys want me to come in now? They made it. You don't have to go to the bank anymore, like, to renew or, you know, you can tell them, okay, I don't want that CD, go stick it in my money market or whatever you want them to do. But I think it's wrong. You know, I think a lot of these companies are starting to get the, get the picture, like, hey, we can't do all this stuff. Another thing, like, we run into with merchants all the time, which I try to explain to them, one thing the credit card companies do not do is they do not They do not enforce contracts. Okay. So if you sign up for a gym membership for 12 months and then you cancel it, you can have whatever rule you want on your website. You can make them agree that they're going to pay for 12 months. But if the person cancels their credit card because you keep charging them, you're probably going to get in trouble for that. And yeah, you can take people to small claims court and send them to collections. Definitely. You cannot keep charging people's credit cards.

Interesting. I never even thought about like taking someone to small claims court over that. But it's funny, it reminds me when I was living in downtown Chicago, I was— I rented an apartment and I joined a gym right next door. And this was before I married a privacy attorney. So I signed whatever they put in front of me. Turns out I agreed to like a 3-year commitment and I was only living there for a year. So I tried to leave and they made it really difficult for me to, to get out. And I forget exactly how it ended, but I remember I paid for some months. I wasn't, you know, actually using the, the gym. So I mean, therein lies the importance of, you know, terms and like making sure you know what you're getting yourself into. I find myself throwing terms into ChatGPT to understand like, okay, what are the things I need to know at least to get like an initial assessment of like, is this company sketchy or not? Like, is this, you know, give me some insights on refunds and everything, just summarize it for me. That's kind of been interesting. You know, don't rely on that. And that's certainly not legal advice. If it was, it'd be bad legal advice. But like, as a starting point, I've done that. Couple of times.

I've tried out stuff like that, like stuck to a PDF document someone sent me. Maybe it's a contract. Oh, do you see, you know, oh, here's a PDF contract. Please look through here. Are there any like minimums, any requirements, anything, any language where they could stop paying me my commission or whatever it is? And then, you know, and then just go from, you know, and then, and then, you know, see what it says. A lot of times, you know, you, if you read enough contracts, you know what to look for. What sections, or do they see any sections in there where one paragraph disagrees with the other paragraph? For sure. Those are ones that I love to read. And I see like, oh, paragraph A says this, and then you go 7 pages down and you go, yeah, but this thing doesn't match with what the other thing says.

Yeah. Or where it says like in all caps, insert company name here or something like that. Like, whoa, they forgot about this one. And I do want to note, you know, of course the best thing you should do is always have your attorney review contracts because they're the ones who are going to sit you down and talk about risk and like what risks you assume when given them this stuff.

But yeah, I mean, I've gone on websites before and privacy policy, insert company here or some other company that's not their company.

Yeah, yeah.

Because they just copied it off somebody else's website. I really—

I genuinely think 10 years ago that was the industry standard. I want to know who was the number one attorney to write the first privacy policy because I'm pretty sure everything else was a derivative from there. Um, uh, but, but, you know, fast forward to today and, and it's just different. And, and, and that's what I always try to share with people. Privacy is not becoming less important, it's becoming more important. Like, it is— the number of lawsuits are increasing. It's not just Facebook and Google getting, you know, fined $4 billion. There are one-person companies I personally have spoken to, one-person website owners dealing with demand letters for non-compliance. And, and that's why I feel like embracing this stuff is a much better move than to deny that it exists and that you're required by law to have it. Like, why not just comply with laws and move on in life? It just, you know, why not? Like, you're going to respect your privacy rights of your website visitors, you're going to help reduce your chances of getting into penalties for non-compliance, and you're going to be transparent about your own practices. Like, that's a win across the board. Might as well get in front of it.

It's like the new thing. Everybody has that cookie thing that pops up on their Oh, we're collecting cookies. Do you agree or disagree? You know, some of them have, oh, select what cookies we can collect. I mean, that's a little annoying, you know.

I'm not denying that they aren't. Yeah, those things are annoying. But if I so may, and I'll first state, restate, yes, cookie consents are annoying. They're a pretty rough user experience. But the reason why they exist is before cookie consent banners, people building websites, they installed analytics tools behind the scenes. They installed IP intelligence technologies behind the scenes, advertising technologies. And when you visited a website without you really agreeing to it, your data just got shared with all these third-party companies. That's why companies like Google and Facebook have built billion-dollar businesses, because they gave us web designers free tools to install into our website. We got free analytics, free ad tracking and stuff like that. But in exchange, they built billion-dollar businesses aggregating all that data. So So, you know, I guess if there was any benefit to a cookie consent, it is giving users the option to say no, I decline having you take my data and just share it with whomever you wish. And so I would encourage anyone reading or watching this, you know, when you see a cookie consent, first and foremost, there should be a deny button. If there isn't, they are not compliant with GDPR, as you mentioned, Allen, UK DPA, Canada's PIPTA, Quebec Law 25, California's COPPA, and the list goes on and on. So make sure there is a deny button, otherwise that site isn't even setting up a proper consent banner and use your privacy rights, exercise your rights, click deny whenever you can. Your data will get shared with less companies.

I find it interesting, like, you know, I always talk to tell people, I go, you guys just don't understand, like, what, what are all these companies do? Stripe, Square, Google, Microsoft, you know, these companies, while, you know, some of them are in the payments industry, some of them are not in the payments industry. One thing they all have in common, they all collect data. And sell your data. That's, that's just one thing that's just crazy that maybe people don't even understand. Like, I have a website, you have a website, and at the— and customers are coming to our website, and meanwhile, Big Brother Google is over there collecting all your data.

Yeah, yeah. And then therein lies why privacy laws became more and more important. Um, governments kind of woke up to what was going on, and, um, and, and, you know, it's in it very innocently, at least for me, you know, installed analytics tools, not really even thinking much of it. But I was— and then you step back and you're like, oh wait, the reason why it's free is because it's free for me, but all my website visitors have now gotten all their data transferred over. And, and so yeah, again, cookie pop-ups, they are definitely annoying, but they serve a very valid purpose. A properly built one will properly block third-party technologies and only allow your data to get shared if you accept. And, and that's what I think is pretty cool, because let's be real, we've all visited websites, whether intentionally or accidentally, we're like, whoa, I, I don't want to on this website for whatever it's discussing. Do you want to be tracked now and start receiving ads to that website again? Absolutely not. And so things like cookie consents can help ensure that doesn't happen.

Yeah, it's kind of funny, you know, my— I have like one friend of mine, he's like, oh, I think everybody's spying on me, my phone, my Alexa, everything spying on me. Because if you go and you look up, oh, I need a beige bath mat, rectangular.

Yep.

The next time you go on social media, you're seeing ads for exactly that. And I— why? Because of all these pixels, you know, Facebook pixel and Instagram pixel or this pixel or that pixel. All these things are installed on these websites. Yeah, it's all designed to retarget you when you go on social media. And what do you think about— here's the thing that I've been reading a lot about lately. And, you know, if I always talk about AI, I love AI. It's like the coolest thing. And, you know, I tell people, like, if you don't know how to use AI, get a paid account on whatever AI platform you like so that you can start to learn about it. But one of the new things I see on ChatGPT is, is literally, it's insane. Okay, so because I pay, I got— and I use it a lot, you know, they keep sending me these, like, beta test things that they're doing. So now they have, like, some their own— they have like literally their own web browser. So, oh wow, huh?

I did not know that. That's awesome.

Yeah, they have like their own web browser. I clicked the button the other day, I was like, whoa, what is this? And I punch it all in and, and I'm like, yeah, there's no ads. There's— you get Google results and some ads pop up, but you don't get— it's not like an advertising landscape in there. And you can, you know, in the regular ChatGPT, there's just a little world symbol down on the bottom. And if you hit that and you ask a question, it searches the internet and then gives you an answer to a question. It's, it's pretty crazy. And then there was another new thing down there the other day, and it said it can do research. So I said, okay, here's—

I use that one a lot—

3 POS systems, you know, this one A, B, and C. I want you to tell me the advantages and disadvantages of these systems and then put it in a, in a, and then put it in a, um, in a table, right? That thing was working for like an— I don't know, I walked away because it was like going to town on the right-hand side, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna leave this alone for like a half an hour. I came back, man, this thing compiled a report, okay, then put together a table, and it gave me like all this like crazy insane information, right?

Right, profound.

Yeah, like, man, that's just insane. I mean, to— for me to do that by myself, I don't even know, that would take days, maybe even a couple of weeks of just spending a few hours doing that amount of research. I mean, that's— it's, it's literally crazy. Yeah, the kind of things AI can do for, for the, you know, to get you information that you It's been outstanding.

I've myself have gotten so interested in it. And, um, the example I'll give you, this weekend I— or last week I bought a really crummy golf cart, um, just a real, you know, 30-year-old golf cart. I wanted to figure out how to restore it. And, um, lo and behold, I had a couple issues here or there. And I was in, in the year that I bought it, it was like, okay, if it's early in the year, it's this type of engine. If Later in the year is this type. Well, long story short, ChatGPT was saying, upload a photo of the engine bay and send it to me. I sent it and they're like, oh, you have this engine. And it's because you have this right there in this corner. And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. And like, it was absolutely able to validate the type of engine I had through a photo I took. It was absolutely, it was remarkable. And anyways, the research feature that you're mentioning, I've used it a couple of times and I don't know any other word than profound. I was just I was utterly blown away with the results that I got from very advanced questions that I would ask it. So it's really cool. It's really exciting.

No, there's a lot of—

A little frightening too.

Yeah, well, you know, the part that's frightening is somebody, some ambulance, you know, listen, you know, data is like always discussed and they have all these new data laws involving calling people on the phone and sending emails and opt-in and opt-outs. If you send out unsolicited emails, you have to have opt-out buttons and all this different stuff so that people don't continue to get email from you. And it's just, you know, it's, it's literally like insane, all the different things that are transpiring. But let's, let's go back to like what you guys do. And yeah, and so like when the business owner is like making a brand new website and, you know, instead of— and, and even like some of these sites now, like I see on Wix or I even see on GoDaddy, they have like an AI tool that'll just spit you a website right now. Who knows what's in the policies or whatever, but, you know, they're not necessarily policies that are geared towards your specific business or specifically what you're selling or specifically what you're collecting right from your customers. So it's super important to have a product like what Hans is offering. And I mean, at $119 for a for a year and to keep up with all the legal things that keep popping up, you're going to be able to have really good protection for your business. And do you guys give somebody like a certificate like that goes on their site so somebody knows, oh, it's from Termageddon, then leave it alone, right?

You know, we talked about having a certificate and it's just not our style. Like we're just like, We're called Termageddon. Like, we're meant to be fun and just like not— and try, you know, and we can back it up, you know. I mean, we— you look at our credentials of our president, my wife, you know, she's the chair of the American Bar's ePrivacy Committee. She was elected the— by the American Bar to be the representative to the United Nations. Um, she's an absolute rock star. Yeah, she's helping write privacy laws in developing countries. So, so, so you're working with— well, you know, obviously I'm biased in my opinion, but world-class policies. And, um, and I think I feel like with that comes the fact of it always goes back to what are we trying to do? Are we trying to get policies out of the website or are we trying to avoid a fine or a lawsuit related to our website? And if it's the latter, you should invest something into like pursuing proper policies. And you know what, I'll give you a good example. Just, I don't know, it was maybe 2 months ago, Rhode Island's privacy law passed. Question number 1, do you know if you need to comply with Rhode Island's privacy law? Not a lot of people know that. And on top of that, if the law applies to you in one way, you have one set of disclosures to make. It applies to you in another way, you have an entirely different set of policy disclosures you need to make. And there lies the complexity. That's just one law. There's also Oregon's law, Colorado, Virginia, Texas, Nevada. California has 3 privacy laws.

Delaware— like the federal government said, hey, we need to—

that would make life easier for us, that's for sure.

Pick one and, and, and go with it. That's, that's the thing that, that, that's the thing that like disrupts tons of industries. I agree. Because you have like CBD industry or nutraceutical industry or any type of industry, all of a sudden, oh, you know, and you talk about Chicago, they have all kinds of rules for Chicago. Certain items cannot be shipped to Cook County. Yeah, certain, you know, things like that. New York has rules. Oh, you can't ship certain things to New York. You can't ship certain things to California. And it's involving, you know, wine or ammo, firearms, or CBDs, nutraceuticals. It's crazy. And it's hard for, you know, I tell business owners all the time, you know, You got to figure out, you know, what you can do and what you can't do all the time. You know, you do.

And privacy, unfortunately, is no different. Where do I stand as an individual? We need one privacy law for all of America, and that's it. Like just one law for us all to abide to. We all get privacy rights as individuals, but unfortunately, that's just— yeah, it hasn't played out that way. We have these individual states proposing one or multiple laws requiring specific procedures and all that stuff. And on top of that, they're constantly changing and new ones are going into effect. 2025, we had 8 new US privacy laws going to effect. We have 2, 6 that went into effect in January, 2 more that go into effect in, in June. And, and so you can't just get policies in this day and age and think you're good to go forever. You have to have a strategy to keep up to date. And how do you keep up to date? You get a good privacy attorney to monitor privacy laws for you, or you lean on a technology solution for a more like affordable alternative.

So how does your, like, somebody goes and enrolls, they tell you like, okay, here's your website. You do you like scan their website? Do you have— is there like a questionnaire onboarding the questions that you have?

Yeah. So it's a pretty extensive conditional logic questionnaire. It starts off by figuring out what laws apply to you. Only then can we determine the disclosures you need to make. So and it's not just about scanning. We do have a scanner, but there's questions like, do you make $25 million or more in revenue? No scanner. I mean, unless people on the website are saying that, which I doubt they would, that'd be a kind of an awkward thing to brag about. But, you know, there's revenue thresholds, there's data processing thresholds. So there's questions we would have to ask you that no scanner would be able to know because they're questions about your business. Also, just speaking of business, are you a for-profit or a nonprofit? That will dictate how many laws apply to you. So the tool first and foremost figures out the laws that apply, and then our questionnaire adapts and asks the questions necessary to make the respective disclosures under those laws. And we do have a scanner to help with like the cookie consent banner and stuff like that as well. So what's nifty about our tool is after you generate your policies, you don't copy and paste our text into your website policy pages. You copy and paste our embed codes into your your privacy policy page, into your terms page, and so forth, so that when new laws go into effect, we'll notify you by email, and then we'll just push those newly required disclosures to your policy pages.

I was about to ask that next.

Nice, nice.

That makes it really easy to maintain your privacy policies and other policies on your site because they're being updated constantly. You know when they're being updated, and you can go in and review the changes. Exactly.

And, you know, don't get me wrong, like every now and then a government will pass some law where we could have never predicted ever predicted. Some of them were disclosure requirements. My favorite was California CPRA, otherwise known as CCPA, requiring a toll-free telephone number to opt out of online tracking. That to me, that just doesn't— I don't connect the dots on that one. Like, why do I have to call a phone number to opt out of online? But anyways, if we ever get those types of questions and they impact your specific license, we email you with a link to answer the new questions. And the moment you answer the new questions, then we can schedule out the auto updates in the future. So, so yeah, Yeah, but we strive for auto updates without you even having to answer questions. And that's why we have like kind of like a, you know, we store your answers to our questionnaire so that we can just push those auto updates.

No, that's really awesome. I mean, any business, if you want to make sure you're compliant, you definitely need to get in touch with Hans at Termageddon. Go visit the website. We'll post a link when we do the pod, when the podcast is published so you can get a discount.

Yeah, yeah. Anyone still listening, if you use the promo code MPS, Allen and I just created that because I was like, can I give your audience like discount. So you'll get 10% off your first payment if you use the code NPS at checkout. And thank you for anyone still listening about privacy policies on a podcast. That's awesome.

If you are, you got— let me tell you, I bet you attorneys probably get requests for this all the time, and they're— they don't— they probably struggle with it. I mean, I know a bunch of payments attorneys, and I'm going to send this podcast to them and make sure that they listen to it because this is a super thing that they could, you know, partner with you guys also and and help their clients with, with these type of policies, because they're the ones that are probably dealing with any kind of lawsuits that happen from this. So this is, you know, a really good tool for any business owner out there. I definitely would recommend this. I mean, we're going to go check it out for our website, and I'm telling you, when I looked at this, I was like, wow, this is a really cool product. I thought it was so awesome.

For the attorneys out there listening that are contract, like, business contract attorneys, uh, click the Law Firm Partners link in bottom of our website, we have a special offer for law firms. At first I thought law firms were going to hate us. Turns out even law firms don't want to— the pricing of a privacy policy in this day and age is just outrageous. So they— a lot of law firms will leverage our technology to help expedite the process and keep the costs relatively affordable for their own clients. So if you are a law firm, feel free to consider us. And if you're like, hey, you know what, I can provide custom legal services please let us know that too, because we have clients that ask us for legal services, which, which we can't provide being a technology company. So we try to refer them out to lawyers for that. So for no commission, like just send them to you because we can't provide the legal services.

So no, it's really great. I mean, you know, e-commerce is growing and growing and growing and it's not going to stop and businesses are going to keep creating websites and people need to know that they have to have these type of policies on their website so that they can run a business and not be worried about the government coming after them or some ambulance chaser attorneys, which I'm familiar with, who go after businesses all the time for all kinds of just stupid things that, you know, maybe business owners aren't paying attention to. But policies are super important. And I want to thank Hans for coming on the show. Thank him for giving discount to our customers and Um, they— I really enjoyed the show. And thank you everybody for listening to B2B Vault. Carpe diem, which is seize the day. You can catch us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. And if you want to get in touch with Hans, he's on LinkedIn. You can go to his website. You can find him everywhere. And I hope everybody enjoyed the podcast. Peace out, and everybody have a great day.

Thanks Challen Kopelman.

Oh, thank you.