National ATM Council 2022 | NAC 2022 | ATM Managed Services | ATM | B2B Vault Episode 111

Yo, what's up everybody? It's Justin live from B2B Vault, the payment technology podcast with your host Allen Kopelman. And we'll be providing you educational information about payments, business, fintech, decentralized finance, and the technology businesses use in today's world. And in today's podcast, we're going to be talking about our adventure at the NAC 2022, or the National ATM Council. Yes, which was pretty cool. Yeah, it was, uh, you know, there was a lot of ATMs there, uh, uh, a lot of different, uh, companies selling different types of support that support the ATM for certain industry, you know, different services, add-ons, things that you— I mean, there was things that you could do to it with an ATM I had no idea. So we're gonna get into that. We had a really cool opportunity where we were able to actually shoot the podcast live from the Hard Rock Cafe where the conference— the Hard Rock Casino, sorry, the Hard Rock Casino where the conference was being held. We're waiting on approval from the conference to publish that. We had 3 interviews from different companies, one from Pocketbook. Yeah, we had PAI and Hyosung.

Hyosung.

Hyosung.

I've been saying that wrong for 10 years.

Allen will get into that a little bit further about the actual, the people, the guests that we interviewed. So that was cool. There was, you know, no hiccups, nothing crazy about it. You know, I mean, it's, it's pretty simple for us. We have a mic, a camera, and a laptop and hit the ground running. Um, so yeah, man, that was thanks to the, you know, the—

yeah, shout out to Bruce Renard, that's the president of the NAC. They do a great job there. You know, that's a— it's a very important organization for the ATM industry. There's two organizations. This is one of them. This particular organization is very focused on ATM deployers, which are people who put out ATMs and load them with cash. And also, they also protect merchants who load their own cash in their ATMs. So it's a very, you know, they're very involved in, uh, and making sure that, um, you know, Congress is behaving and banking laws and stuff like that. And they lobby the financial committees. And we'll get into that. We had a speaker from the House of Representatives, and we're going to talk about the meeting. So the meeting started off day one. It was a 3-day event. I attended 2 days. And the 2-day event, the first day— I'm sure maybe you hear a little thunder in the background. We're having a major, like, thunderstorm.

Welcome to South Florida. Um, the past couple days we've had some super major weather. So if you're a listener of the podcast, be sure to check out on YouTube and Anchor. If you're getting the links from, you know, Facebook and all that other stuff, you know, bear with us. You know, we can't work really when there's no internet. So we're doing our best.

We had an internet outage for like 3 times every day this week. So the conference started off with a big bang and, um, You know, Bruce came out and introduced everybody to the conference, and then we had 3 speakers from the 3 main ATM deployers, and it was very, very cool. So first, Hyosung spoke, and Brad Nolan, who we got to interview for the podcast—

shut up, Brad—

and they went over all the things that they're doing at Hyosung that's going to help The— basically the theme of the whole event was, is how, is how ATMs are evolving into more than just dispensing cash.

Yeah, man, I was blown away with some of these things.

So how it's going away from that, and then they show— every manufacturer got up there and kind of showed like what are they doing as part of that. So Hyosung, you know, showed all the different types of things that they're doing. They have a new software coming out where they're going to be able to put a little small machine that can accept bills next to the ATM and then linked on to the ATM, which is really cool. So you're not taking up more— that much more space in somebody's store.

Deposit—

well, you, you're going to be able to probably deposit money. Let's say once open banking starts to happen, you would be able to make a deposit there because basically with open banking, you you don't really need— you could put your money in any bank or in any ATM and then it would make its way to your bank account, right? You know, that's the whole thought behind open—

when ATMs are like a regular ATM is able to make deposits, that's going to change the game, right?

And you know, right now it's just at your financial institution. You can roll up to the ATM and you can make a deposit of cash, checks at the Which isn't the most efficient thing to do right now.

It takes a little bit of the time, you know. I, I've done that before where you deposit a check to the ATM, right?

I mean, now you can take it away. Now you can take a picture of it.

Yeah, it's easier to just take a picture.

It's pretty cool. Like, they were talking about that, making a deposit at the ATM by basically taking— somehow linking your ATM up to an app. Link— you would be able to use an app on your phone and it would be linked to the ATM. It was pretty cool. We saw a bunch of like stuff like that at the show.

Some banks have like drop boxes too, like, yeah, well, yeah.

You have a lot of cash, you just walk up to the bank and do the Dropbox. Yeah, but I think a lot of banks, you know, don't like to accept that much cash anymore.

So the— that was another thing Hyosung showed at the show was so crazy that you just said that, like, banks don't want you to bring in their cash anymore, bro, right? Wants you to stash that.

So Hyosung— so Hyosung was showing a new machine there too for cash deposit. So let's say you have a lot of cash at your business you're able to have this special safe at your business and then linked up to— I don't want to give it away, but there's like— we also met with an armored car group there and they were telling me like, oh, you're going to be able to go— let's say you have a— let's say you had a bar at the end of the night. Let's say you got $10 grand in cash. So instead of taking that, sticking in your safe, you would have this special safe You would put the money in there, and Justin saw these machines. Instead of like a bill acceptor, one at a time, you just like drop the money on a tray.

It's like a money counter almost.

Yeah, a month, like a tray. The thing opens up, takes the bills in, counts it all, right? And you don't even have to have it separated by denomination. It separates it by denomination— ones, fives, tens, fifties, and hundreds. It was nuts. I couldn't believe it. And so that money would go into the special safe, that it would be— you would prop— then you would go to your computer and you would open the program up, and then you would basically hit a button and it would take whatever you just put in your safe, and they would electronically deposit that to your bank account. Then the armored car comes by because they're the only one has the key, open it up, take the money, and take it to the bank. Take it, you know, they take to take it to the bank, but they're basically like advance. You don't have to go— you won't have to go to the bank anymore with these kind of machines. So it's crazy, yo. And we saw these like bill recyclers where you go recycle it. That thing was crazy too, crazy. And then we— so that Hyosung was showing all that. They were talking about being able to pay a bill at the ATM, being able to redeem like a redemption from like let's say, you know, DraftKings. There was a whole bunch of different stuff like redeem, you know, maybe redemption of a coupon from a business. All sorts of stuff was going on with that. Then Triton spoke, and they've also, you know, Triton has also been around in the ATM space for a ton of years, and they were showing their new ATM lineup, right, and what they're doing. And Genmega got up Wes Dunn, who I've known for years, got up and they were talking about their new ATMs. And they apparently have like another ATM that's coming out hopefully this year or beginning of 2023. They did not showcase it at the show. He was saying, look, oh, we're bringing something sexy to the show. And they actually showed this— Justin actually saw it at the show. It was a jukebox combined with the ATM in one unit. I thought it was pretty cool. It was a little bit on the expensive side because it was about 8 grand.

I can see, right? Yeah, I mean, but I could see, like, if you're in a— from where I'm from in Milwaukee, yeah, like, we have like corner bars still, right? Like, it's so— that's super popular. And within the community, you know, people go to those places and they, you know, not every one of those places lets you control the music because we're, you know, Music is weird nowadays, you know, it kind of incites violence if you play that.

Well, you don't want to— you know, everybody doesn't like that.

You just got to be careful what's loaded on.

Genre of music is wide today, right?

So a lot of places are really strict on the type of music.

I guess they can— you can decide what song—

preload them, right?

You decide what songs you want on your jukebox.

It would be a great— I mean, because the same jukebox that they had, right, I've seen in— what I'm saying is like in almost every corner bar, right, right, that where I'm from. And so you know, like having the ATM right underneath there, one, is going to increase revenue for the bar because people are going to be able to get cash to put into the jukebox. Or hopefully the jukebox takes—

no, the only way you could pay for the jukebox was— sorry, they had an app and you could pay for a song through the app on your phone, so you didn't need— if you didn't have cash. Oh, okay. But so that was pretty cool.

Yeah, man, I mean Technology.

Yeah, technology. We always said technology is the great equalizer, right? I mean, you know, let's say you have a diner. Oh, let me put that in my diner. Now I have a jukebox. Someone can go put a song on the jukebox and sit at the table, listen to the song, and there's an ATM, and I don't need a giant footprint for each two machines. It's one machine, right? It was pretty cool. Neon around it.

Oh, it was really— I mean, it looked like a video game.

Yeah, it was a pretty cool thing. You know, that was pretty cool. So that was like the big kickoff to the show. And then we got to go into the, um, into the ballroom where they had all the, uh, booths set up.

He was there all 3 days. I, I didn't— I went on Tuesday.

Yeah, so, you know, one of the things— well, hot, you know. So one of the really cool things we saw was this company called Jar Tracking, and they actually had this device that was like around $300, and it was magnetic, and you could put it inside your ATM so you could hide it like in the back of the ATM and, uh, in the vault. And then it had sensors, and then it also had money tracking capability. So it had this, you know, tracker in there. So if somebody was trying to steal your ATM or trying to insert, um, let's say they drilled a hole in it and they were trying to like push, um, gas inside it to blow it up, which is not— I haven't seen many stories about that happening in the US. Over in Europe they do it a lot. And, um, most of the time here people try to, you know, like they'll try to smash the ones that are outside, like the drive-through by the bank.

Yeah, everybody down in— I don't know why in America we just think that we're gonna just take this thing out of the wall, right?

In Europe, the thing is, I was telling Justin, I go, they put an ATM on in some old building that's like 150 years old. Okay, well, the concrete is not made the same as the concrete here. Here, these guys are putting cinder blocks, then they're putting rebar, then they're pouring concrete inside.

Literally, that machine ain't going nowhere.

I mean, those things, that thing's inside of a a, some serious, you know, that's, it's beyond what you would do on a regular building. Concrete tomb, right? That's what I mean. It's like, yeah, they built like a tomb. So you're not getting in there. And then the door is, the door is like some door you would put for like a hurricane. Yeah, steel door with a, with special locks on it, right? There's no key lock. It's got like a special lock. You have to have a fob to open this thing up, right, to get in there.

Have you ever seen Breaking Bad?

Yeah, I've seen that show.

Do you remember when the lady and her husband were trying to break into the ATM?

It's crazy. Oh, I've seen videos. Like, we could post some videos of people that bought an ATM at an auction, and then they're sitting there, they just wreck the ATM. One of them, I sent the guy money for the parts that you get.

No, because there's probably nothing in that thing anyway.

The guy pulled like a couple of grand out of it. So I found out who he was. I said, I have to call this guy because I saw the guy like tear up two ATMs. So I called him on the phone. I go, you know, I understand, like, you know, social media, you got like a lot of people, blah blah blah. But I go, dude, you like wrecked out two ATMs, right? You could have sold the locks worth about $70, $80, okay? The inside of the ATM where you drilled holes through the the door and all that. Okay, you ruined the door, no big deal. But the dispenser inside's worth anywhere from $1,000 to $2,000, plus the cassette drawers inside. You smash them all, that right there is over $1,000 in parts. You wrecked out the keypad. Keypads are worth $300, $400, the newer keypads. You got a printer, you know, you got the whole top where the screen is. You could have parted the whole thing. You could have just called the ATM guy that knows how to get into an ATM. They could have got into the— showed you how to get into the ATM. Although I saw another way how to get in it recently. I was like, that was crazy.

And, uh, yeah, I'm not disclosing that.

Yeah, I'm not disclosing that information, but, but it was— somebody had shown pictures You know, people, you know, the ATMs are normally not— they're not easy to get into.

People are creative, that's all, right?

People are creative. And I mean, you could have sold it, could have sold it for parts, you know, you could have busted the door open and then sold the rest of it for parts. Probably over $2,000 of parts, almost $2,000 of parts. ATMs are the, the main parts are the, the main parts, the keypad, the screen, the printer, and the cash dispenser. Cash dispensers are really expensive. So having, having like a tool like that for $300, if you have an ATM like in a high-risk location or maybe outside, that would be a really great tool. Because if someone even tries to move the ATM or cut the ATM, that thing will go off the alarm, right? And they can just go to a call station and call the cops. So that was pretty cool. You know, they talked all about how to— at that conference, you know, some of the— you know, they had a lot of education sessions. So they talked about, you know, how to attach a sidecar to the ATM, how some of the new softwares are going to work. There was a lot of talk about Bitcoin, how to sell Bitcoin on the ATM, Bitcoin ATMs, uh, selling Bitcoin using the sidecar. I think the sidecars are going to be a big— what's a sidecar? So the sidecar is just another little piece of equipment, small, it's like small, very small, you put next to the ATM machine that's going to be able to provide multiple services very soon, like paying bills. Yeah, paying bills, we talked about, you know, redemptions, redemption, transferring money, transfer money, get money. Like we saw a guy, we interviewed his those guys from Pocketbook, and it's an app that connects financial companies so that you could get money out of the ATM. So I was asking them like what types of financial companies. So different companies that are not fintechs, that where people are using them to like have, they have money there, like Acorns, Betterment, Robinhood, PayPal, Venmo, maybe Cash App. And then— but you want to get cash at the ATM. So you're going to be able to— you, once this Pocketbook gets installed onto ATM machines, it's going to be exciting. You'll be able to have this Pocketbook app, then connect all the different financial tools that you use, right? Financial tools that you use at your— Rocky, I know you— he doesn't like the storm. So the financial tools that you use, then you'll be able to go to the ATMs let's say you have money in your PayPal account, right? Right.

Well, that's a bad example.

Or let's say you have a savings account at Robinhood, right? Well, you don't need your card. This is a cardless transaction, right? A lot of these places— Coinbase— they all have cards, but this would be a, a cardless transaction. So let's say you have money on Robinhood in your savings account. They offer savings accounts. So let's say you got $1,000 in there. You want $100 at the ATM, you know, the only way to get the money from Robinhood is to send an ACH from Robinhood. Rocky, stop that. Okay, sorry about Rocky, Bart.

Taking a brief intermission.

No, okay, somebody's gonna comment that instead of, instead of transferring ACH your money from Robinhood to your bank account, sending an ACH, which can take a couple of days, you'd be able to go to them, right? Takes 2 to 3 days sometimes. Let's say it's the weekend, then it's longer, and you're screwed, right? You could just go to the ATM, go get $100 out with you, with Robinhood, by using this Pocketbook app. That was pretty cool. We saw another company there, and they were like, uh, Wells Fargo has cardless money from the ATM. So if you bank at Wells Fargo, you want money from the ATM, you can go to your banking app It'll give you a QR code, or it gives you the ability to open your banking app and scan the QR code on the machine. You scan it, and you already told that your banking app you want $200 at the ATM. You put in your PIN code, boom, the ATM spits out $200. So there was a company there, and they're trying to get banks to— instead of them developing that, they already developed it. Now we can just give it to the banks, they can stick it in their apps.

Smart.

Yeah, because banks— why? I mean, if I was a bank, someone came and showed me that, okay, I'm not gonna— I don't need to go hire a team and spend a couple million bucks developing that. We just partner with them. I mean, some banks might spend the money, but cardless is definitely the way it's going. I've talked about on the podcast before, one day I left the house without my wallet and I had no gas— I had very little gas. And I was like, oh, I need to stop at a gas station. I said, Oh, my phone. So I just pulled up, I said— I never tried it before, and it worked. I put the— opened up my Apple Pay and filled up my tank. Apple Pay worked great. So, you know, everything is going to the phone. The phone is becoming the most powerful tool that we use, you know, for everything. Keeping your contacts are in there, your email is in there, all these apps are on your phone. Getting a payment, sending a payment, literally everything, everything is going on on your phone. So there was a lot of—

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So date— now we'll talk about day 2 of the conference. So day 2, which—

how was their day 2?

Was very interesting. We had a big luncheon and there was a lot of speakers. So I'll go over some of the speakers that, um, they talked about, you know, an update on PCI compliance, cashless ATM enforcement that's going on. I mean literally like Visa and a lot of the banks are trying to put the kibosh on those, uh, yeah, on those, you know, universal deposit acceptance on retail ATMs. That's what we were talking about with the sidecars and the open banking. Um, then, you know, Hyo Song made another— Hyo Song made another presentation about, you know, what's the state of the business. Everybody literally believes the ATM is going to become the, um, more of a kiosk type of a thing and offer more services than just dispensing cash in the future. And, you know, we're going to see that grow in the next 5 years and then accelerate.

I would say, like I said to you, like, the Hyosung brand has always been ahead of the curve, in my opinion. I mean, I Like, when you see the stuff like that, that's one of those ATMs that has always had the language you could set, you know what I mean? Oh yeah, like the language. And not that all of— but they've had like, you could have— you could speak German, you know what I mean? Like, had every language.

Oh yeah, like some of the services on the ATM now, like Justin was blown away. Like, we saw a company, DCC. Like, what is that? Dynamic Currency Conversion, which allows people to come to the United States from a foreign country. Let's say you come from Europe, you have euros, you want to take money out of the ATM, it lets you convert it to— from— to you, you know, does a conversion on the ATM.

I would—

saves you money.

Yeah, I mean, because my daughter was in Japan, right? Right. So out there, to go to the ATM, the fees were ridiculous.

Well, yeah, they probably didn't have DCC on.

That's what I'm saying, right?

So if you had DCC, then it does a currency conversion on the ATM, and then that saves you on your banking fees. Then they also had speaker from— speakers from the Atlanta Federal Reserve, which is really interesting. Uh, David Lott, who I was on a panel with at another convention at the MPC Digital Commerce event, and he's retiring soon. And then the woman who's replacing him, Dr. Scarlett Einbusch, I met her there., and they talked about cash trends and in the United States and, you know, the importance of cash as a payment option for consumers.

And they keep seeing like, were they talking about the cashless society at all?

Well, they, they, they talked about, you know, the cashless society, and we're going to get into that with like the next speaker that we have, who was the first speaker, the Honorable John Rose. Who's in the House of Representatives from Tennessee. He also serves on one of my favorite committees that I watch, the U.S. House Financial Services Committee, and he's a leading cash advocate on Capitol Hill. So he was explaining how he was one of the people who, who was pushing for the, the, that bill, the CAT Act, to keep cash in society, that requires businesses to accept cash. And he even made a joke that Maxine Waters told them that She goes, oh, I'm supporting this bill because it's very important. Because, you know, ATMs— people don't really understand, like, ATMs provide a convenience, but ATMs also provide a, a financial link to many people in disadvantaged communities, man, and rural communities as well.

So the ATM is some places is like the family bank.

Right? Like, so, because people get paid and they might have a payroll card, but then they need cash, and then there's no bank, or the banks don't take those cards.

Some people can't get a bank account, right? You know, some people, some, you know, yeah, the unbanked and underbanked.

So ATMs serve a really big purpose in society. Most people don't even understand that the non— you know, I remember saying this before, Justin was like He was a little bit in shock, I think. Non-bank-owned ATMs outnumber bank ATMs.

Yeah, I was tripping.

So the not, you know, the biggest companies, the two biggest are Payment Alliance International, PAI, which now is owned by Brinks, right? And I believe they're like, if they're not the, the other largest one, which I showed Justin at the show, that they actually had a bunch of booths, right? And as Cardtronics. And between those two, they're the two largest of, of, you know, because lots of ATM deployers— like, we would be considered an ATM deployer because we deploy ATMs, and then we use managed services through Payment Alliance and Brinks to, you know, get the machines loaded for the, for the clients, which makes it a much safer experience for the merchant because they're not taking, like, going to the bank, getting cash, putting it in the ATM, right? You know, rinse and repeat and doing that every week or every couple of days. So by having armored car do it, right, that, that basically makes everything more secure for the business. Rocky, no! Or you have Rocky and he comes—

Rocky's not happy about the ATM episode. Enough is enough.

So, and then, and then we, you know, so that was the really— that was a really exciting part of the show, to listen to the Honorable John Rose from Tennessee speak. I got to ask him a couple questions. I actually invited him to come on the podcast. We're going to reach out to him next week and schedule him to be interviewed because I would like to— because I asked him about Durbin 2.0, and we also want to hear from him more about What'd he say about Durbin 2.0? He said he wasn't aware of some of the things that I brought up to him about Durbin 2.0, and that's why I want to have him on the show, because I would like to have my chance to explain that with Durbin 2.0, that part of what they're discussing—

cell phone number, ladies and gentlemen—

part of what was being discussed, what I asked him, and the question was, I said, are you aware? I asked him if he was aware that part of what Durbin is proposing was already decided in a lawsuit back in 2006, which was the Visa versus First Data, which is now Fiserv. You know, that went to court 2006 about this on-us transaction thing and creating this third network to eliminate Visa and MasterCard. The second part of the question that I asked them was, I said that there— that Durbin says that there's no competition. So there is competition. I mean, just like for the ATM business, there was, I don't know, more than 1,000 people there, right?

Easily.

Okay, over 1,000 people at this event. All of those people sell ATMs, deploy ATMs, load ATMs. You know, there's even some merchants there that have their own ATMs, right? And things like that. They So that people have a choice who they can do business with when it comes to all types of payment products, right? And I explained to him, I said that competition does exist in the credit card processing realm.

Well, you have—

he says merchants are complaining about interchange. I said, okay, well, you have PayPal, Square, Stripe, Shopify, Toast. I mean, we could probably— I told them, I said, I probably can name a dozen more companies off, right? What's their market share versus the other credit card processors? And Visa and MasterCard have nothing to do with that. And in fact, when it comes to the pie, like, and I wanna— and I'm gonna explain this to them, hopefully, when we interview him, you know, we talk about the pie of credit card processing. Visa and MasterCard make a very minor amount of money. The people who are really making the money are the banks. Yes, the card issuing bank, the bank that issues the actual credit card. That's it.

Make it understand, they're the one that set the fees, right?

They set the fees, the banks do.

So the bank where you got your credit card from, right, is the people who are responsible for the ridiculous APR rates, whatever they are.

Well, no, the interchange— the interchange fees, that's what I mean, right? It's not Visa and MasterCard, they just provide a vehicle to serve us, to service the whole industry, the whole financial industry. I mean, I look at it, they created this, right?

Let's not forget, this is an educational thing. Without Visa and MasterCard, you, you, myself, your great grandma, she wouldn't have been able to buy you your uniform for Sunday school from the JCPenney catalog if it wasn't for these people, man. Like literally, right? Am I right or am I wrong?

Yeah. And then when you look at what Visa and MasterCard did— so starting in this business, when I started in the business, and, you know, and I told them I've been in the business for 20 years, right? Over 20 years.

I wish I'd seen you send him—

when I, I was thinking, I was like, what? I wish Justin was there so he could have grabbed my phone and videotaped that.

That sucks.

It would have hopefully It— they did video, they did tape it, so we will get that. Maybe we can cut it out because it'll probably be on YouTube. Nice. I'm sure they're going to post all the conference videos on YouTube. I definitely want to cut that, get that, get that, that out of there. But the thing is, is that, you know, when I first got into the business, merchants would receive multiple deposits, and I— that freaked me out. I was like, man, this is complicated. You're gonna get it. And I had a restaurant, so I remember you get a deposit for Visa and MasterCard, a separate deposit from Discover, a separate deposit from American Express. And if you did pin debit, you would get a separate deposit for that. When I started selling, we would sell it and you would get Visa, MasterCard, and debit in one deposit. And then it took many, many years, years, I don't even remember how many, before Discover and American Express integrated into the Visa MasterCard network. So that merchants could just get one deposit.

Meaning like, so throughout the day— no, no, selling my pies and everyone's coming in with different cards, right? And I go to cash out—

well, you would, you would batch out, but then you would have a separate— you would—

no, I'm saying you'd batch out and then you would get a deposit from all these other different places, right, to your business account, right?

Now you just get one deposit.

Boom. That's nice.

Yes, you just get one deposit. So what's crazy is, is that, you know, that, you know, so why does Durbin say there's no competition then? Well, he doesn't understand how much market share like PayPal, Stripe, Square, all these companies have versus the regular credit card processors. So there are choices out there when people want to process credit cards. They have choices. I mean, we're launching a platform that's going to give people You know, basically 3 levels of pricing based on retail, e-commerce, and invoicing, and then key-enter transactions. And I think it's, uh, the way it's set up, it's very fair pricing. You're not gonna have to deal with a statement fee, a monthly fee, a monthly minimum. You're not gonna have to deal with PCI compliance fees, non-PCI compliance fees, regulatory fees, annual fees, like all these fees that most of the credit card processors charge, right?

Why and why not?

Well, because the way that it's set up, it's just set up differently. So just set up in a— set up in a more—

we have to, we have to work on that answer, right?

Well, it's set up more like Square, PayPal, and Stripe, and not set up like a traditional merchant account. There you go. So basically, we're taking what they're doing and combining it with what we do, and then making it so that, like, if you have a per— like, I talked to a merchant yesterday, he's like, oh, I have this huge problem with Square. I said, what happened? Oh, I did a transaction and Square, uh, had a problem and they didn't let the transaction go through, and blah blah blah. And then I try to, you know, reach out to them and there's no chat. There's no email. There's an email, the customer support, and there's not really a phone number to call up. And if you do get a hold of somebody, they say, okay, great, and they'll give you your— there's nobody to talk to. So what we've done is we combine what we do with a company that does sort of like what Square does and PayPal and Stripe, and we combined it all together. So when we sign up a client, they have our phone number for customer support They have a support phone number 24 hours a day. They have a chat support. So there's all kinds of support that they can get. So we're providing, you know, same type of service, but with a better level of support. Mm-hmm. So something new is going to be launched in the next couple of weeks. It's very exciting. The ATM business is very exciting. We got, like we said, we're going to be posting our another podcast about the NAC National ATM Council show. Um, and we did some nice interviews with the 3 companies. Everybody's going to really enjoy that. We're looking forward to contacting John Rose and, and inviting him onto the podcast.

John Rose is going to get into Dick Durbin's ear so that he can come and be on the show.

Yeah, because maybe, because maybe John Rose will invite me to Congress so I can present the evidence I would love to referee a debate between Mr.

Durbin and— no, is it Dr. Durbin?

No, it's just Senator Richard Durbin.

Senator Richard Durbin.

Durbin. Yeah, that guy wouldn't— no, I would love to just testify before their committee. You know, they get out those big signs, everybody, they put them on a thing. Yeah, I'll get up, I'll put my sign on there, I'll show them a couple of pie charts. Where they need to understand where does the money together—

a whole presentation.

Yeah, they need to understand where does the money go. That's all they need to understand. I just don't think Congress understands where does the money go. The same thing with—

I think they think that like Visa, MasterCard are the ones that are like— when they look at their, their receipt, yeah, I think they think they're the ones that are setting the prices for those They— and they're wrong, right?

They just don't know. They don't know because they're not— haven't been educated, right?

I mean, that's it. The business—

it's called an expert.

The business itself can add a fee to it, right?

Right. But I'm just saying, like, business that, that, you know, like, they have these hearings, right? So I watched the hearing. So they call up a bunch of businesses, right? So whatever, some lady that she represented a bunch of grocery stores, I don't really consider her to be a small business. I guarantee it's more than $5 million a month. She's in a bunch of grocery stores.

Yeah, that's not a small business.

I'm just saying, like, they're complaining about— they're complaining about interchange. I mean, listen, the price of gas is causing prices to go through the roof, right? And we talk about this all the time because that's what drives the economy.

A lady complaining about that who owns a chain of grocery stores.

Right, I'm saying they're complaining about interchange, grocery stores, and herself gets a special interchange level and all that. Maybe she's not set up correctly.

She's probably not.

Maybe she doesn't have grocery interchange.

Go to interchange secrets.com.

Yeah, check it out. We'll tell you, we'll explain interchange to you if you want to learn. We'll explain it. But it's, you know, it's educational for businesses to understand what's actually going— I want Congress to understand that there is competition. Where the money goes, who decides it. I want them to understand. That's why, well, I walked over to him, I asked him if he would be on the podcast, and he gave me his information because, you know, and I'd like to discuss with him also the bill. You know, he's trying to push that bill through, the Payments Choice Act, through Congress. And, you know, everybody, you know, I've written, we, we posted, uh, a few times petitions for people to sign to to get that Payments Choice Act because we want to keep cash in society. It's very important. Cash is important. Cash is never going to go away. I hope— I might not be here when cash goes away, you know.

Don't talk like that. I hate—

would— I know, but I don't think it's going to go away anytime soon. So that's the podcast for today. That was our, you know, review on the NAC 20 minutes.

So heavy, bro. I'm not gonna be here. Come on, man. All right, so on a lighter note, Rocky has calmed down. He's not in shock from the storm, so that's positive. I had a good time at the show. I met a few people.

Um, yeah, one of the guys, they like to party. Yes, whenever you put salespeople At a convention and free drinks at a casino. At a casino, there's gonna be a party.

I only have one— there's one thing, the cigarette smell.

Oh bro, that's the one thing I don't like about casinos.

I will never in my life ever— if that's Vegas, what it's like in Vegas, I have no aspirations going to Vegas.

It's worse in Vegas.

I will go to— I will go to the state of Nevada to see the actual outside side of it, but I'm not going into a casino unless it's like legit smoke-free. Yeah, because no, I know. Uh-uh. Well, thank you to everybody. Shout out to the people who are at NAC 2022. Hopefully everyone got home safe.

Um, you know, you didn't party too hard down here in South Florida because you could come down here and get sucked up Yeah, and watch, watch for updates on the ATM business because as soon as some of this new technology comes out and we're able to start actually deploying it out to businesses, I think a lot of business— you're going to want one in here, you're going to want, you're going to want to get these, one of these sidecars put onto your ATM and your business because this is going to drive traffic, put more customers in your business because all these apps that they're going to link into the sidecars into the ATM. Those apps are going to be in people's phones and they're going to tell them, oh, go to this place to pay your bill. And all the places who have that is going to appear in the app. And that's, and that's going to drive—

that's what drives how much foot traffic is going to come into your corner store, right?

Foot traffic into your corner store.

Yeah.

And the, uh, the, the app for the jukebox had the same thing. Like, if you got the app for the jukebox, you could see where one of those jukeboxes was. And you know there's an ATM there too.

That's—

it's pretty cool.

Shout out.

Yep, shout out, shout out to everybody. Thank you. Peace out. Carpe diem. Peace. Keep trucking. Oh, today I forgot this thing. Today is Truck Driver's Day or something.