Payment Trends October 2022 | Buy Now Pay Later | Electronic Invoicing | B2B Vault: The Payment Technology Podcast | Episode 116

What's up everybody, it's Justin live from B2B Vault, the payment technology podcast sponsored by Nationwide Payment Systems, hosted by Allen Kopelman, and we'll be providing you educational information about small business fintech, payment processing, and the technology businesses use in the world today. And in today's podcast, we're going to have a payment trends episode. It's been a minute since we talked about the payment trends. We were trying to do it monthly, but, you know, we kind of changed up the format of the show a little bit, you know, to, to focus on certain niche, uh, topics, um, and we strayed away from the payment trends, and now we're back. So the payment trends and how consumers want to pay. There's so much change constant in payment processing, especially over the past couple months. Just new fees, Congress changing laws, bills trying to get passed. Dick Durbin's in the news constantly. Allen, I had to tell him to not talk about Dick Durbin today. So Hopefully by me bringing him up right now won't spark a fire under his arse, um, in any way. So yeah, man, uh, what's up with the payment trends?

So, you know, so I decided to look at like what are the different payment trends, and I was reviewing, you know, some different articles that came out and they were talking about— and also I wrote a recent article that was all about, you know, alternative payments and how businesses started using alternative payments in, um, in their businesses, you know, in the pandemic. And then that kind of, you know, people started taking Venmo, Cash App, you know, P2P PayPal payments, Zelle. And then, you know, the government came in and said, oh, hold on, we gotta have you, you know, if you're gonna do that, you know, you got to have a business account. And then those and you got to pay taxes. And then those companies reacted. And actually, you know, those services are either as expensive or even more expensive than credit card processing, right? So it doesn't make— it's not, you know, when you look at the— and, and I also reading recently where PayPal, um, they came out with a really complicated payment rate matrix whatever matrix of, you know, what the rates are. And they've literally like raised up the rates on e-commerce. They raised up the rates on key-entering transactions and sending out invoices. They raised their rates significantly. You talking about PayPal? PayPal.

Yeah, PayPal was also just in the news for their little—

yeah, PayPal was also in the news where they made this— they made a threat about this $2,500 fine. Then they said no, but then it came out in the news, I think yesterday, that they actually shut down a bunch of accounts that were related to free speech and something else that they didn't like, comments that—

that's terrible—

made. And they cut their— one of them was called something free speech.

You see, Chase tried— is doing the same thing to Kanye.

Yeah, Chase didn't like what Kanye West had to say on the Tucker Carlson Show. I mean, I don't agree with what everybody says. If you don't agree with what they say, you just say, I don't agree with that, and express your own opinion, right? You know, I don't agree with, uh, Justin's, uh, the person Justin mentioned before, and I tell— I speak out about it that I don't agree with them.

Okay, Durbin, he's talking, right?

Dick Durbin. I don't agree with Dick.

I don't agree with Kanye West either, but some of rap that he's been saying, but whatever.

Yeah, like he's just spewing whatever, you know.

He's just bipolar, man.

Okay, he's saying what's on his mind and that's it, you know. Some of it makes sense and some of it doesn't make sense, you know.

He needs to watch what he says, and if his mama would probably slap him in the back of his head for half the stuff that he says on, in, on, in public, you know.

And I don't even know why.

Always told me, you know, like there's a time and a place for everything. And your opinion is your opinion. No one cares, right?

No one cares what anybody's opinion is.

It's keep it to yourself.

No, but I don't think that— I don't think that PayPal or banks— and I mean, I've heard of other bank Chase shutting other people's accounts off and PayPal shutting accounts down. I don't think it's right. I mean, we're a pay— we're a payments company, right? I don't care what your party affiliation is. I don't care what you sell. You have a legal business, business license, corporation bank account, we're going to help you, you know, period. That's it. You know, if it's legal, right, we can do it. And the bank, you know, has to decide. And we work with a— we work with a lot of different banks because not every bank wants to process everything. The same thing happened with the firearms. All right, CBD, CBD, you know, marijuana. You know, I had a lady contact me the other day about CBD and she's like, oh, I can't get a bank account. I don't know, she's in California, she's having a hard time, which doesn't make sense to me. I told her to go to a credit union, they're going to give you a bank account. She's like, oh, there's not one nearby. And I'm like, well, you know, you got to do what you got to do to get banking. Yeah, you know, or go to online banking and get an online bank. So there's a lot of online banks, that's a growing, growing trend, online banking. That's part of what Congress doesn't understand, because open banking is coming to the United States whether they like it or not. Innovation is—

what's open banking again? For those—

open banking is where you're going to be able to move money from your bank account to, um, a business's bank account without using the— basically without it passing through the Federal Reserve. So it's a bank-to-bank type transfers. Also, you'd be able to go to an ATM machine, even a third-party ATM machine. Let's say you had cash, you could put it in and deposit that cash to your bank account.

Why does the United States— why are they fighting it? Why don't they—

um, the government's not fighting it. They just don't know what to do about it because I find most of the time they don't know. They don't, they don't call on people like me, like, okay, Dick Durbin, you want to understand credit card processing? Why don't you call up 5 guys who have been in the business for 20 years? Okay, I had somebody call me the other day. They said, we think you're one of the most knowledgeable people. We're starting a new project and we want you to be on the board. So I said, yeah, let's have a meeting and I'll come on board on the board. But I'm just saying, you know, you gotta, you gotta understand, like, what is the, you know, what is all, you know, you know, they have to understand how the payments business works. They don't get it. They don't understand how banking works. They— you see what they do. I see these hearings, they're questioning the guy from Chase, but the, you know, the, you know, like the CEO of Chase Bank, he doesn't know anything about it.

He doesn't know how to run a business, right?

No, no, but I'm talking about like they're talking to the, to the, the CEO of Chase Bank or other banks and they're asking them questions and asking them specific questions like, oh, you know, how come you don't allow ATM operators to open up bank accounts at your bank? Okay. You think that they, they know? They're the CEO of the bank. If you want to know what's going on, go call the ATM operators up, get someone from the ATM Association and have them come before Congress and testify and read off a list of people who can't get a bank account. Now, I know for a fact that there are banks that bank ATM operators, right? And that, and they know how to monitor the bank account. Well, maybe some of these banks find that the people are not doing it, not operating correctly. Well, you know, there's got to be rules. But open banking and, and these banks where there's, you know, not— no physical bank, it's just, it's just growing, growing, growing, growing, growing. It grew— I think we talked about on the podcast— in the last 3 years, it's like more than doubled, right? More than doubled the amount of people using it and doubled the amount of banks. So let's get into payment trends. So in today's episode, you know, I went and I looked up a report that was done by Mercator. They collect a lot of data. And so they did a report. It's from 2021, but that's okay. And they're talking about, you know, how we talk— we always talk about with businesses, like, you, you need to be prepared for how consumer wants to pay. Okay, and so you have two things: in person and then online. Then, you know, and then, you know, and then also, you know, what do you want to deal with? We talked about before, like, if you were taking all these apps from these payment— from these payment apps, then you're getting all these deposits, and they don't deposit in a batch like credit card. They deposit one by one by one. So if 10 people walk in and give you Zelle, then you're getting 10 Zelle deposits. And then you— 3 people pay with Cash App, you got 3 Cash App deposits. It's a, it's a complete accounting nightmare. But so, so they were talking about, you know, what kind of technologies have been emerging in the last, you know, year or two. You know, consumers tapping or waving their card, right? 19%. I think that's definitely gone up because I've gotten several brand new cards. They all have the tap and pay on it. So I think that's becoming very, very popular. You just take your card and go, you know, tap it on the terminal and you're done. You know, go to the gas station.

How come at some places it makes you sign and in most places, in other places, it doesn't when you tap?

Well, signing is basically optional. So basically Visa, all the card brands say as long as you're using EMV, you don't need to sign. Now some businesses want people to sign because maybe they feel like it's a higher risk.

No, I'm not saying that. So like when you go to a store, like sometimes it just— you just tap it, it goes straight through.

You don't have to put your card like that.

You don't have to put your number in, your PIN, or nothing, right? Or sign, right? But then if you go like to certain gas stations or something, you tap, either it makes you put your PIN in or you have to sign.

Well, sometimes they might—

they don't give you an option like credit or debit, like, you know, it's because that's—

well, they might have— they might have routing set up on there, like we talked about in our video where we talked about the Durbin Amendment and we talked about what are— what capabilities do businesses have. So if you're a big gas station company, obviously you have capabilities to route some transactions the way you want them routed, right?

So, okay, so like because in my brain, this is the way it works with tap. I wouldn't— if I'm paying with tap, I shouldn't have to touch the— right, the terminal again.

Exactly.

So when I have to put my PIN in there, it's kind of frustrating because it's like, what did I even—

I think if I educated that business owner and they actually knew that the, the, the tap and pay was cheaper than you putting in the PIN number, I think that they would be shocked. Oh, but it's actually cheaper because there's no network fees. And especially when you're paying— let's say your card is from a, um, you know, they, they might route it from— they might route it by different cards, let's say, because you have regulated banks and unregulated. So the regulated banks are banks like Chase, Bank of America, Truist, you know, the biggest banks. And then the small banks like credit unions, community banks, and stuff like that, they're they're unreg— they're, they're not, they're not regulated, so their rates are higher. But still, I would say in general that most swipe debit is cheaper than pin debit. But some places prefer pin debit because they think that they're not going to get any chargebacks, which you can't— next to impossible to charge back a pin debit because you put your pin in, right? I mean, unless you reported like, oh, your card was stolen, a guy had a gun to my head, made me give him my PIN number, right? Yeah. So, you know, so tap and pay, that's just, just growing and growing and growing. Everybody's doing tap and pay. And the next thing is, you know, paying with your wallet, right? So this morning, a guy— we'll talk about this later— sent me, you know, one day I forgot my wallet at the office. I was I was out and I was like, oh, I need gas. And I got, I got gas using my phone.

Nice.

So that was great. But then I had a problem. I was eating at a restaurant, I didn't have my wallet with me, and they didn't take Apple Pay. And I'm like, in 2022 you don't take Apple Pay? That's a problem. You need to have an NFC terminal, which stands for near-field communication. Near-field communication enables everything— tap and pay, Apple Pay, Google Pay, any kind of wallet payments, any way that you can get it paid, man, right? Because, because especially younger people, they don't even care. Most people don't even carry a wallet. They won't— they just won't come back to the restaurant again. Somebody— maybe they'll have to pull a card out of their wallet. I had to get a friend to pay, and then I had to pay the friend back. So at the restaurant, because I felt bad, I said, oh, I'm gonna treat. I figured like, oh, they have Apple Pay. It's 2022, no Apple Pay. So Yeah, wallets are becoming bigger. Like, someone sent me an invoice today. They sent it to my email, and then I don't know, I didn't— I don't think I hit the button fast enough, so I re— I closed it. I went back, and then it let me pay with Apple Pay because I like to use my Apple Pay card because it gives me, uh, cash back. And the way they do it, it's pretty cool. It goes like the next day, it goes into your wallet. The cash back, and then you can just credit it to your account.

Really?

Yeah, it's pretty cool how it works. I didn't know, and I had amassed over $100 in there. I was like, where's my rewards? And I looked around, I was like, oh, then I just put it in there. Then you can spend the rewards. It's pretty nice. It's pretty nice how they do it. I like it. And then retailer-specific app payments. Okay, this is interesting. So I've noticed like Publix came out with an app. You can put your credit card in there and then you can pay with the app.

Oh yeah, that way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Publix, I think that's a bit— while that's really, really convenient for like maybe somebody ordering at home and then paying like that, right, and their card saved, that's cool. But now you're paying non-card present, you're paying It's, it's, it's, it's not scanning it to the— it's not scanning.

I don't know, like an e-commerce transaction, right?

I think it's an e-commerce transaction even though you're like at the store. I don't know if it's going into the credit— into the POS. I don't know how they did that, but that's interesting. It would be interesting to find out.

I have to research that.

Yeah, like I'm—

I want—

I asked the people at Publix, even the manager, he said he wasn't sure. But I think I'm gonna put my card in because if your phone—

if you're— you know, the way my mind works is that if your phone—

you—

so your device is connected to an app, right, which would be Wi-Fi enabled, it's going to charge— that app is going to charge your—

right, it's not card present. Yeah, so now you're paying a higher rate. I don't know why Publix doesn't want to do that. You would think, hey, we want to reduce—

or for people like you, people who are running, you know, they're jogging, they don't carry their wallet, it makes sense because, you know, Well, they have Apple Pay, so it's fine.

You can just wave your phone on the machine there.

What would be the point? What's the—

not sure. I think it's for the shopping, like a lot. I noticed that grocery pickup, maybe for the grocery pickup.

But then why would you have to pay at the—

no, they also— you can pay through the app when you're leaving the store too. I don't know. I don't— I didn't really get really weird. So it said I have to reach out to the tech guys. This one I didn't understand. 14% of consumers began using chip cards since the start of the pandemic. Now that's been since 2015, so I don't know where that data came from. 13% of consumers started using a wearable, so like their watch. Now I'm not a watch person because I used to be a chef, and you can't wear a watch, you can't wear rings, right? Because you'll just, you know, you'll kill yourself. Well, forget, forget that. You could just— it could get heated up and melt onto your skin.

Oh yeah, so a lot of different stuff.

So a lot of this, it's very dangerous feeding somebody a Rolex. So I guess, so I guess I kind of got used to not wearing a watch, right? Or wearing, you know, wearing—

I mean, I'm a watch guy, but I'm not gonna put the Apple Watch. No, I don't want to be looking at— I don't— a friend of mine said this really cool line in a, in a, in a rap. A little poem. What? What? Time is of an essence, but the clock does not concern me, right? Yeah, you know, like, time is so— like, your, your time is very important, right? But the clock— staring at a clock for me is what always was like, okay, it's good to know what time it is, but I'm not restrained by this clock, right? You know, the 24 hours in a day.

Yeah, I got a Fitbit one time and it was sending all the messages and all that. No, man, I was I took that too distracting. Yeah, it's too distracting, the things going zip, zip, zip.

Yeah, my wife been asking me to buy her Apple Watch for, for years. No way, I don't like it.

It's not for me.

When we're home together, sometimes you're staring in your phone for hours.

I don't— yeah. And I, you know what's cool is on the Apple phone now that at the end of the week it'll tell you like, uh, how much screen time you spent. And I like it when I look at it and says, oh, you're screen time went down. I'm like, okay, cool, because I don't want to be on the phone.

We're monitoring the— just side note, if, if adults are monitoring your screen time, and if you have small children, monitor your children's screen time.

Yeah.

Steve Jobs didn't give his kids Apples or iPads, phones, none of that.

So just— that's important to know.

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It's definitely like taking over everywhere.

Yeah.

And then he talks about that the QR code made a comeback. We started using QR codes probably like 10 years ago when we started making apps, and you can scan a QR code and download an app.

I can, I can—

and it wasn't popular, but then all of a sudden I started getting phone calls from people that remembered that I knew how to do stuff with QR codes. Like, oh, we'll pay you if you can make a QR code for our website. I was like I feel really— I told them, I said, I said, why are you calling me for that? You know you can make that for free, right? Because I felt bad. It was the pandemic, right? And there's a bunch of restaurants calling me on the phone. They remembered that I did that, right, with the QR code. I was the QR—

I mean, the QR code was like state-of-the-art technology when, when it came out. Yeah, man, when you're able to like go to the store and like scan the QR code and get something for free because you had that technology, right? That was the talk of the town, right?

But then it faded away.

Super phased out. I got so annoyed with QR codes. Yeah, can you— we need a QR code here and a QR code here. No.

Then it made a comeback and it's great. Like, you go to a restaurant, you want to look at the menu, you don't want to touch the COVID Well, they figured out the, you know, a good— a better use case.

Uses, right?

Better use case. You know, it can link to a payment. They can print a QR— a unique QR code on the receipt. You get the receipt, you scan it, you pay with your Apple Pay or your Google Pay or whatever you have, or you key enter your credit card, or you got it saved in your Chrome browser, whatever you got, right? You can make payments with it. It's pretty, pretty cool. People know what to do with it now. And also, one of the things the phone companies fixed is you don't need a QR code app. Yeah, you can just use your phone. So they fixed it. They fixed the— that was the smartest thing they ever did was fix the phone to scan the QR code.

I'll never— I had one of those. And I'm a tech guy, right?

Yeah.

So I had one of those. I'm sitting there like, man, when— this is when QR codes first came out. I started sitting there, nothing's happening, nothing's happening. My guy comes up to me, he's like, yeah, man, what are you doing? I'm like, man, I'm trying to scan the QR code. With my phone and nothing's happening.

He's like, you got the app?

And I just looked at him like, what?

Yeah, you needed a nap.

I need— you needed a nap. You know, this is a long time ago.

And that was also weird, like I would go to conventions and they would put QR codes on people's convention, uh, thing because they wanted to be cheap. And then you had to, you had to, you had to download a QR code app and you would scan it and then you would get their contact information. That was kind of cool.

That was all right.

I think that's— but it was kind of difficult to deal with because then you had the leads in your, in your phone, in this app, and then I don't know.

Yeah, that's a lot to deal with.

So let's talk about some other, some other cool trends that are going on. So one trend, like, so this morning I'm watching the news and it was on ABC News, it's been on some other channels, they're talking about the buy now pay later And Buy Now Pay Later has been in the news with Congress trying to figure out how to regulate these companies. In fact, they called a bunch of them before Congress. Yeah, and some of these companies now started keeping tabs on people, putting people on their blacklist, um, checking people's credit, you know, which they weren't doing before. Really? Some— one of them recently just went out of business. That was, that was doing some B2B stuff. They went out and another company went out, but other companies are coming into the market. Maybe they're going to figure out a better way to, you know, a better way to do it. But, you know, it's definitely like a lot of companies are putting it on there, like especially Shopify merchants, right? And other merchants who are on other platforms, you know, they're starting to add that onto the platform as a checkout option. And people need to be careful with that from a consumer standpoint. Like, is, is it interest-free or not? How often do you have to make the payment? Is it once a month, every 2 weeks? Is there a longer period of time? How long do you want to make, make it for? Do you really need to do that? Is the total for, you know, like, did they change the price of the item?

Because I was gonna buy some the other day, it was $80 a month, but they charge you 4 months at a time.

Yeah, well, some of them reserve it on your credit card.

So I was like, wait a minute, they reserved— today it's not $80, it's $320, right?

Yeah, but you're not gonna— they're not gonna put it on your card. They're just reserving the amount on, on, on— so you can't spend it on your credit card. So they're reducing your spend. Um, some of them were taking debit cards. They stopped doing that because people turned off their debit card and they didn't get their payments because they collected automatically. So there's a lot of different stuff going on with that, and a lot of those companies— I mean, we talked about Afterpay, and another company posted some multi-million dollar losses. So we'll see how that's going to play out. I mean, if a ton of people— with it the way inflation is, if a ton of people start using this during—

well, I always had a question for you.

Yes.

So my wife, um, has like this really bad, uh habit of— well, I wouldn't say a bad habit, right? Like, she's, she's, she's hyper-focused on her checking account, right? Making sure that charges go through. And she can't understand why it takes certain companies longer to process the payment out of her— like, so, like, when you see your available balance, right? Yeah, it says whatever.

$320, right?

And well, you know that there's— it says pending is $80, right?

Right.

I can— I know, right? Like, okay, I have $240 left, right? Right. For whatever reason, she can't get past that. Why does it take so long?

Because what happens is when you go into a business and you have your debit card, so you use credit Or you paid instead of—

and you instead of clicking debit, you click credit.

Doesn't matter whether you, whether you click debit or credit, doesn't matter. When they, when they do the transaction, it's basically authorized. Then they have to batch out, the business does. When the business batches out, then the charge goes through, but the money is held. So they're holding it with that pending. So a lot of times, especially if you're shopping like on a Thursday night or a Friday or Saturday or Sunday, you're just gonna see a whole mess of pending.

Oh yeah, I mean, I'm used to every weekend. Yeah, you're just gonna see pending in your bank account, especially if you pay a bill on a Friday. That's why I always tell her, never pay your bills on Friday because they're not gonna—

that, that, you know, well, they credit you if it's due, but I'm just saying it's going to be pending, right, in your account, right?

Yeah, you pay your bill on Friday, whatever, but the money's right, it didn't leave yet because they got a batch out.

The credit card processor has to batch it. Some credit card processors batch on Saturday. Like, we use one, they batch on Saturday, which is really good. That means they send a file over to the Fed, you know. So that's really good for merchants because then they get Friday and Saturday in their bank account on Monday instead of Tuesday. So that's, that's good to know when you're shopping around for credit card processors, or if your credit card processor does daily settlements.

How much does that cost though?

That's usually free. It's just how they operate. Oh, some don't operate that way because they just don't— they want to hold on to the money because they make interest on it, like every other bank, right? So buy now pay later, this could be the holidays. This holiday season could make or break that whole business because if they post a whole bunch of losses I don't know what's going to happen.

Yeah, they've been almost talking about that almost every day. And also the way home, right?

And the government is going crazy trying to figure out how to regulate these people because now some of them started checking your credit. So now you get a ding on your credit when you apply for a—

when they would have had to have like signed—

well, because some of the buy now pay later is giving people like 12 months for big purchases, like Synchrony and those other ones. No, that's been around, that's consumer financing. But some of the like Afterpay or one of them.

You pay up to $1,200.

Yeah, 12 months.

Oh, I guess you're right, because Klarna was right, because— and Amazon just started doing it too, right?

Yep. Amazon, Shopify's put it in their platform, buy now pay later. So it's growing, it's not going to go away. I want one of those row machines. What, rowing machine? What, the Peloton rowing machines?

Not the Peloton. Oh, the one that You remember the one that, uh, Chuck Norris— the cards?

No, I don't know. Chuck Norris had a rowing machine with the water in there. Yeah, I don't know. Oh yeah, you need to give up. You can get consumer financing for that. You know, another big trend is the, is the ability to send text messages to your customer, like a text message to your customer, and get paid through a text message. We've been offering that for years now. We have a lot of tow companies that use it, all sorts of different companies. It has a— even has a tip feature in it. Yeah, you were talking, which works real— which works really great in service businesses. You know, we also have, you know, electronic invoicing. So we had a couple of people signed up for our new electronic invoicing product, which is awesome, on nationwidepaymentsystems.com. Go to the Solution Finder, choose Service Business, can sign up for that. So when they send the invoice out, the customer gets the invoice and pays, then they can go into the Message Center and say, oh, thank you for paying. And then they, they can also put a link in there to get a review, right? And then they can also communicate with the customer back and forth. Oh, did you have any additional questions? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's really awesome product. To use for two-way communication. You know, like for— let's say you're a plumbing company, air conditioning company. I got an air conditioning guy, he fixed my air conditioner. I said, oh, do I need to be home? No, what I need to fix is outside. So he fixed everything, he texted me, it's all fixed, sent me the invoice, I clicked it, paid with Apple Pay, boom, done. And I got 2% cash back, which is awesome. So, you know, that's the whole, the whole thing. So like for service companies or companies who use invoicing, Here's 3 reasons why you should switch to this. Number 1, convenience. It's very convenient. So you can send your customer an invoice, they can see the details, there's a link in there, they can pay it. And here's the best— I always rate products by works for the business and the consumer likes it. Because if it works for the business and the consumer doesn't like it, it's not going to be— not going to be great, not a great product. So, you know, So that's a great product because consumers like that. They don't have to give you the credit card number over the phone and feel like, oh, somebody's got my credit card number. Fast. It's fast because you can send the invoice. Let's say you're busy all day, then you can send the invoices out at night when you get home, or you send them as you go during the day. And then when the person—

finish the job—

then when the person is free, they can click on it and make their payment. Because not everybody's sitting there staring at their phone or has time to call you up and give you the credit card number over the phone. And then from the personal— personalization level, right, a customer now has a record, right? They have the invoice and have the record of what they bought and that they paid. That makes it really cool. And you have that conversational messaging, right, platform within our platform. So I always rate everything by good for the business, good for the consumer. So let's talk about the ones that we talked about earlier, and then we'll end the podcast on a good note. So tap the phone, it should be— it's good for the business because now you don't have to hand the card, it takes away a whole step in doing a transaction. Good for the business. What about it? You're the consumer.

Yeah.

Uh, being able to use your Apple Pay wallet at the business. I say it's great for the business. Again, less handling, faster transaction, good for the consumer. Okay, um, payment retailer-specific payment apps— I don't get it. I don't think it's so good. I think it's good for— I think, I think it's good if you have payments incorporated into your online ordering, right? But I don't think payment-specific I'm not gonna put 10 store apps in my phone.

I mean, I guess if you're loyal— is—

no, but I'm just saying, I'm only shopping at Publix forever.

And then—

no, but I'm saying you're not going to put 10 of those in your phone. I don't think it's a winner for businesses or consumers. That's chip cards, that's a winner, except for a couple of things. One, the card brands need to stop letting people who do chip transactions do chargebacks. And Dick Durbin should address that instead of the bullcrap he's addressing. And number two, they need to stop with— they need to come up with a solution. You know, pay at the table is the solution for tipping. Tip at the time of the sale. We just did a whole podcast about that. But that, that need— they need to just make a hard and fast rule so restaurants and all these places that take tips know that they have to do that. And don't be so wishy-washy with the rule. Just make a rule and say, no, you need to do it this way, not we recommend. Right? Say, that's it, you're done. You're gonna have tips over 20%, you're gonna lose the money, or switch. I think businesses need to just upgrade their technology and, hey, stop— find a company that— if the company you're with is not helping you get the right technology, you need a different company. Money.

Absolutely.

That's it. I mean, we have terminals. You can take it to the table, they can pay, or just switch to pay at the counter. I mean, a lot— I've seen a lot of businesses do that. Like, they don't want to pay for all those pay-at-the-table machines. So what do they— we have one restaurant that did that, and they switched to pay at the counter. So now you just— they give you the bill, you go to the counter, the girl opens up the check, boom boom boom, then they have the tablet there, you put in your tip, and you walk out the door.

A little old school, but it's, it's, it's the tried and true, right?

It's tried, true, and efficient. Yeah, you have an extra, maybe extra employee. So what? You have the hostess do it. You figure, you, you figure it out. You figure it out. It's either pay at the table or pay on the way out. Figure it out. Get it done. Stop suffering with the over percentage tip thing. You know, chip cards. Good. But Visa, MasterCard, Amex, Discover, you guys need to stop with the chargebacks on those, on those transactions. The person stuck their chip in there, they did a tap and pay, they did this, they did that, they use their Apple Wallet. No, they need to pay and there's no chargebacks. Sorry, you guys made the rule saying there would be no more chargebacks with chips, but that's not what's going on right now. You guys are playing games. Uh, that's why if Dick Durbin called me, I'd tell him like, these are things you need to address, not what you're addressing now. QR code, I just say 50/50.

Yes, I mean, the utility— they're starting to figure out the utility of it, right? It's kind of like an NFT. Like, it's— well, NFTs were so early and no one knows what they're doing with them now, you know. But now they're like, well, oh, it's a QR code. We can do this, we can send them here, we could get— we can make a thing. Voice—

well, you know, I think it's good. You just need to be careful because you don't want to scan a random QR code you're not sure who it's from, and then all of a sudden you have some, uh, you have some kind of virus on your phone or something like that, especially if you got an Android phone.

Never put your debit or credit card information into something you don't—

right, you don't know. I mean, I get so many scam text messages. Oh, go to this website, log in now, your debit card is at risk.

All right, no, I got this morning and said, uh, yeah, claim your $100 Home Depot card. I'm like, dude, first of all, why is this link happyformeorsomething.com? Like, get out of here. No thanks.

Yeah, gotta be careful of scams. We've done a bunch of podcasts about fraud and how to protect your personal and business credit from fraud, text messaging and email phishing. I would say like now text message phishing is over email phishing. You got to be really careful with text messages.

I mean, they're getting smart because fake Zelle, because the numbers are like local. They're like, they, they find your phone number and then they use a local phone number with the same area code, or they use an 800 number. And they're very, you know, they're, they've gotten slick. Like, hey, how have you been? Where have you been? I haven't seen you in a while.

Oh, your Zelle is blocked. Log in now. Yeah, I know.

No, no, this money I've been trying to pay you.

Yeah, or I paid you. Oh, I sent you money on— like, I saw a bunch on Facebook. Oh, I sent you money through Facebook by accident. Send me my money back. No, people don't do that.

People are getting—

do not, do not fall for fraud payment trends. Like, listen, we talked about fraud a bunch of times. We've talked about the Dick Durbin thing, and, and, and, you know, one of the things I want to cover, not today but in another podcast We'll decide when we're going to do it, but it's going to be more consumer-based about not just why Dick Durbin's thing is bad for, bad for businesses. We're going to discuss why it's bad for consumers because people really need to know what's going on. I don't think they know what's going on, and, uh, I'm trying to inform people. So if you like the podcast, share the podcast episode, tell your friends about it.. I think we give great information for businesses and we give a great outlook. We talk about it from the merchant service side, from the merchant side. We talk about what's good for the business, what's good for consumer. We cover it all. So thank you for listening to B2B Vault. Peace out. As we always say, carpe diem, seize the day. Oh, sleepy boy. That was a good podcast.