Products VS. Experience | The Experience Economy | B2B Vault - The Biz To Biz Podcast | Episode 263

You are now watching the Biz to Biz podcast with Allen and Justin. Yo, what's up everybody? It's Justin live from B2B Vault, the Biz to Biz podcast sponsored by Nationwide Payment Systems, hosted by this guy, the Chevy Chase of payment processing himself, Allen Kopelman. And in today's podcast, we'll be discussing, uh, products over experience, um, products versus experience, you know, basically, uh, touching on what's hot in in that economy type of style. So how you doing, man?

Doing okay.

Good for you. How you— what's, what's shaking with you, man? Nothing much, man. Let's hop into it.

Let's hop into it.

Yeah, man, let's hop in. So what you think, man, products or, or experience?

Well, I definitely see, you know, we've seen a trend over the last few, you know, probably the last decade of people opening a lot of businesses that involve services. But I think in the last couple of years, we've definitely seen a big explosion of businesses that provide an experience. So, you know, versus coming in and buying a product from them, like indoor skydiving, escape rooms opening up.

I was going to say, like, for people who don't know, like, when we're talking about, like, an experience, we're talking about, like, paintballing, escape rooms.

Um, yeah, people like go in and smash stuff.

Touring, you know, tours, axe throwing, kind, you know, the, the axe place, that type of stuff. Like, so yeah, keep going.

Yeah, like indoor, like a place opened up near my house, indoor golf. So they have indoor, one place has indoor miniature golf. I mean, it is hot in Florida, so if the rent's right, that makes sense. Indoor.

Yeah, every indoor miniature golf I've been down here is terrible. But I mean, I get it, you don't have that much space.

So, well, I mean, I think that, that a lot of them, they have to make a choice, like, okay, is this going to be geared towards like kids? Is it going to be geared towards like family? Or is it going to be geared towards like adult?

You know, I mean, it's miniature golf, so it should be geared for families and kids, right?

But I'm just saying, like, you have to kind of—

I don't know many adults that want to go miniature golfing. They want to go golfing on a golf course and drink beers.

Well, I don't know. They had one place— I don't know, I could be wrong, but when I lived in Dallas, there was a place and they built it inside like a 4-story office building, so it was pretty cool. And you—

I would have built a paintball thing in the office building if I had that kind of money. That would— to me, that would be way more successful than indoor golfing. In 4— dude, that would be the shit. It'd be like Call of Duty. It'd be like a map on Call of Duty.

They had that too in the same area. Yeah, it's like near downtown. They had all these warehouses. There was pool halls over there.

That would be one of those things that if I had unlimited income, I would definitely do some cool shit like that.

For sure.

Buy a bunch of buildings, let the homeless sleep in it so like they could be like innocent bystanders and shit of the paintballs.

I don't know if they would like that.

Oh no, it'd be— they'd be on— they'd have to agree to it, of course. Okay, be super real, have junkies in there and shit. That'd be the shit. No, I'm joking.

Be out of control. No, but there's like indoor golf, this place near my house, ParFit, I think it's called. And they have like walls set up and then you pick the golf course, then you bring your golf clubs in there and you're just hitting the ball against the screen. Kind of weird. I don't know, people are doing it.

They practice their swings.

Yeah, they practice their swing. I mean, it's like, you know, guy on Barstool Sports, like, set an Olympic—

I mean, a Guinness record for, like, the most— I don't know, whatever. He— but he was up for, like, some crazy-ass amount of hours, like 38 hours or something.

Like Dave Portnoy guy?

He worked for him.

Oh, worked— some guy that worked for him. Okay.

Yeah, I'm— I don't know, I, I'm not into golf. I mean, I could watch golf. My grandfather, shout out to Grandpa Eddie, he would sit down and drink his whiskeys and smoke his cigars, Dutch Masters.

Well, it's like a cigar store, right? So like in the old days, it was just like a small little shop. You went in, got your cigars. Now when you go to a cigar store, they got a smoking lounge.

Not in Milwaukee, bro. I don't ever remember walking into a small cigar store in Milwaukee. Like a, like a real cigar shop. Like, every one of them was just giant humidors. They had the back ducked off so you know what they were doing back there. They had the bottles of whiskey and shit. It's one right on Wisconsin Avenue. I'm terrible, I can't remember. I'm gonna— Hülls, I think it's called. But it's, yeah, literally Hülls, U-H-L-L-E-S.

I can't remember.

But yeah, it's literally— that place is the shit. It's like But you could walk in there and smell like the 1800s because that's how long it's been there.

No, I'm saying, but like a lot of places have gone to like that kind of concept where it's not just— oh, absolutely not just a smoke shop. You go in, it's a cigar lounge.

They got a bar.

Yeah, they got bars in there. In fact, I saw some guys opening a barber shop, and inside the barber shop they had, um, beer and wine, like they had a bar set up. So when you come to the barber shop, you can get—

Which is weird to me because all the tattoo artists that I know, yeah, like that are like hardcore tattoo artists, they don't like tattooing people who've been drinking.

Well, it's not tattoo, it's— this is haircut.

Oh, haircuts. That's right, that's what you said.

Yeah, haircut place.

Yeah, but I— the reason I said that is because that wouldn't be good. No, the other day I, I see it It's all over South Florida. It's like a barbershop and a tattoo parlor. But you always see these guys getting drunk inside of the fuck. It's like, yo bro, like I wouldn't want, I mean, I've been tattooed drunk before and I literally lied to the tattoo artist, one of my homies. And he got, he stopped doing the tattoo mid through the tattoo because I was bleeding so much.

Oh.

You know, you, it's like, you know what I mean? He's like, bro, like, I can't see what I'm doing. That's why I asked if you had been drinking, right? You know what I mean? And so, yeah, but yeah, the barbershop, my home, you know, in the barbershop, that was always the thing. You bring some liquor with you and chill out at the shop or whatever was your poison.

Yeah, like I was in Plantation the other day and there was like two new restaurants that opened up in this plaza, and one of them was called Rockin' something. It had like a whole rock and roll theme with album covers on the ceiling and all around.

Nice.

So, you know, it was like a theme. And then next to it was this place like Ford's Garage. So I'm assuming like Ford the automobile. Then the whole inside was all like auto with sports, with, you know, sports bar.

Oh, nice.

You know, kind of place. And I think like, you know, when people go out to eat, like, they're not just, you know, I saw somebody post online and they go, oh, is this the— they went and they went out to eat in a restaurant. And when they sat down at the table, the hostess sat them down and then there's no menus. And there was just a sign on the table and it said, step 1, scan the QR code. Step 2, order your food. Step 3, pay. And then the guy— then someone's going to bring the food to your table.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of that.

And somebody wrote like, is this going to be the future of restaurants?

You know, I mean, that the, the experience of like going out to dinner is, I don't know, very seldom for me. So the last time I did go out, It was on my daughter's birthday, actually, um, and we went to a Mexican restaurant, and that's how they ordered the food. I mean, it was a different vibe though. Like, it worked for them, right? It worked for the— because it was so busy, right?

But, but you had to order it yourself?

No, no, no, not, not that, not that part. But you did have to like look at the menu on your phone. Yeah, and it was kind of a pain in the ass, you know what I mean? I'm like, this is— what if the— anyway, so yeah, I'm not a real big fan of that. This other spot that's in Hollywood, they make you look at the menu. Oh yeah, no, you did have to order on, on from the app.

Oh, you did?

On that restaurant, right from there. Yep. And that's how they— the other restaurant, you didn't. You looked at the— you scanned the you had the option of either just scanning the thing or they would bring you a menu, right? That I—

that—

because the whole experience, I mean, growing up like I did, bro, I didn't like, you know, like, shit, going to Ponderosa, bro, was like a— it's funny, big thing, right? So like, that experience was amazing. Like, it didn't matter if it was your birthday or not, you felt important, right? You felt like Oh, this is cool.

Think about like all the restaurants that were like Ponderosa, like used to have Sizzler, used to, you know, what was that other one that— but Golden Corral, but that went out of— they went out of business.

Golden Corral went out of business?

Yeah, they closed a bunch of them around here. Oh no, I mean, when I was a kid, there used to be—

that shit is so big, bro.

There used to be a place down here when I was a kid called Sweden House. And it was a giant Swedish smorgasbord buffet.

Nice.

You know, but I'm just saying, like, you know, it's just like the restaurant business, like, changes and has to adapt to, you know.

Yeah, I mean, and not just to stay on restaurants, right? Like, you know, products have to heighten the experience of someone's life, right? Like, so When I think of like making a purchase, it has to be something that's going to be very useful, right? Like something that is going to make my life better. Because I can't afford just to be, oh, I want this. I don't have that luxury. So it's very important that the product is marketed with the experiences that you're gonna get with, you know, after you purchase, you know what I mean? Like, um, like I was looking into tents for when I go camping, right, right? And it was very difficult because one, you can't just test the damn tent out, right?

Well, you could go to like over in Boca, you can go to that REI.

I don't have money for REI, bro. I'm saying you can see The tents there, the tents there aren't going to be the tents that I can afford. Okay. So I mean, yeah, so like, oh, does it— like, it was very— so it was like important for me to like do like read the reviews, look at the website, see if they have a website, etc., etc., and stuff like that.

So they don't have tents in like Dick's Sporting Goods?

I can't afford— I can't afford— I don't—

I mean, I don't know what they— I don't know how much tents cost.

I've been into Dick's Sporting Goods twice and my life, and I walked out with nothing.

Okay.

Yeah, our, our office has an ant problem.

We have to get the guy, and he just squished it on the soundboard.

Good for you. I mean, this— whatever.

I don't want to jump it on me anyway, man.

Yeah, so like, for me, like, the product has to, you know, come with some, right? So I mean, I feel like that's— people are like businesses, and you know Operators are in a tough spot when it comes to having the same old, same old thing. Like, I see, uh, what's a good example of a product with an experience?

Uh, drones, right?

You know what I mean? Like, um, there's so many different brands and, you know, everyone's experience is different.

Well, it's like shopping has changed. Like, instead of like going to the store and going shopping, most people are buying most of their stuff online. So when you buy stuff online, especially like clothing, I know I'm very particular with clothes. I know you are too. But I'm saying like when you go to the clothing store, sometimes I'm surprised that to the— whatever it's like shopping experiences. It's not that it's like it's not just that it's trash. I'm about like a lot of the clothes is just made with this like weird material now.

Polyester.

Yeah, and you can't get like 100% cotton t-shirts. Yeah, you can't get a cotton—

you gotta spend the money on that.

I mean, no, but they're hard.

Shout out to Hanes. Shout out to Hanes.

Yeah, but they're hard to find. They're not sold like everywhere like it used to be.

Well, no, I mean, for 100% cotton twill t-shirt, just a plain t-shirt, you're still going to be spending $30.

Yeah, it's crazy for a blank tee.

Yeah, so I mean, it is what it is. Shopping experience though, like, uh, you know, I don't know what it's like to go shopping at Fifth Ave and shit like that, you know what I'm saying? I don't go in those stores, so I'm just saying, like, you know, that experience is probably way different from what I'm talking about. But like going to the mall and, and just in general, that whole— since you can pretty much purchase anything and everything that you need online. Like, when I go to the store, it's more so for me to check the fabric, the material, see how the pants fit, and then I'm gonna go buy it online.

I'll even go get— I'll even go try on sneakers sometimes, especially the ones I walk in. And then once I try them on, I know, okay, I like this brand, I like this particular style, right? Okay, now I'm just wearing them to walk Rocky, so I don't need— not making a fashion statement at 6 AM, right? And I wear those sneakers out like, uh, all the time because he walks 2 or 3 miles every day, right? So, you know, I'll just go online and buy the ones from like last year and they're $50 less.

Absolutely.

You know, so a lot of people do that. You know, they call that like showrooming. You're going—

yeah, like when you go to those boutique type— oh, well, you're talking about that, but yeah. I mean, so the experience like going to like a boutique shop, like down here, what's—

No, but I think— I don't know.

But you know, I can't remember the name of the spot that I'm thinking of. Kicks, I think it is. And you know, it's cool because it's like, you know, it's a whole different environment in there. It's collectibles and shit like that. That type of experience is cool. It makes you, not have so much buyer's remorse if you are going to purchase something.

Right, right. You know what I mean?

So I like that type of stuff. But, you know, products coming with an experience is, you know, it's kind of tough. But I do think that people tend to pick the experience over just the product, whether that experience is good customer service or an easy checkout experience or, You offer buy now, pay later.

I mean, even paying all those different, even paying a bill for a business, right? So, you know, like I deal, we deal with some wholesalers, right? So some of them are like, okay, you got to have a credit card on file to place your order. You know, then you got to place the order. Some of that, you know, one of my, one of the vendors we have that have like It's horrible. Like, you would just think, like, they're a technology company. You would figure like, oh, there's an online, instead, online, like, order process. Instead, it's like, oh, print these papers out. They change them all the time. So you have to constantly go to their website, print out the right document, send it into them, send them over your credit card authorization form, right? And you know, it just makes the process difficult. And you know, like I was, had to pay like this company we buy paper from, right? For the ATM machines and stuff. And we keep in stock a little bit for so that we have it. But like with them, we call, you know, we used to have to call them on the phone, give them the credit card over the phone. Now they don't want to take the credit card unless you pay them like 3%, which, I don't really care, but they want you to— they want you to give it to them. They want you to sign a paper, then give it to them, then send it back.

That experience sounds terrible. I would not want to— I wouldn't do that.

So then I was like, okay, how else can I pay you? And they were like, oh, you can send us an ACH. So I sent them an ACH from my bank, then I printed out the paper, then I sent it over to them. It's done. But a lot of businesses don't have that outgoing ACH set up on their bank account.

Yeah, I don't know.

But I mean, it cost me a dollar versus probably $30.

That's a horrible buyer experience though.

Yeah. And I don't think businesses think about that enough. Like when they're getting, when they're trying to pay, when they want customers to pay their bill, I think you have to think about like, okay, I'm trying to get paid. Like I have someone, you know, we're trying to get, I'm trying to get my customer to pay me, you know, set it up easy. Like send them a link. Click this link, pay by credit card, pay by check. Boom, boom, boom. You know, try to speed up your cash flow and, you know, speed your cash flow up on the bill. Like a lot of companies, I mean, I've been in business a really long time, but companies that would give you credit would say, oh, if you paid within the first 7 days, we'll take off, you know, 2% or 1%. They would deduct it off and whatever. You may throw a check in the mail. I don't want to deal with checks in the mail. I don't want to deal with writing a check out. I don't even have it. I think I have like 10 checks.

I don't have any checks.

No, I mean, literally, because every once in a while there's just something that I have to write a check for. I think the last time I bought 50 checks. Yeah, I don't know, because that'll last more than a year.

I have no idea. I've never— I haven't had a purpose for a check.

And it's funny, like 10 years, you would think like even for like like when we're setting up somebody with credit card processing, we need to get their banking information, right? So a lot of times people don't have, especially the younger folks, they don't have, they don't write checks. They're totally off checks, younger people. So I just tell them, I go, well, you got to give me like something, you know, either a bank statement or the paperwork that you set your bank account up with, which is going to have your name of your corporation.

Yeah, because I mean, I'm not going to have a check, right, at all, right?

Exactly. So I, you know, so I tell them they have to get— give me stuff, like, give me like that information. And then it's just funny, like, that they sometimes—

and this is the reason why we have a hard time signing up the younger generation, because one, they don't want to give you any of that information, and they don't feel like they need to, right? They feel like that's why it's so simple for them to go to the Big Three. PayPal, Square, Stripe. Right.

And we gotta do better with that, better with that. Give them, you know, the credit card companies need to hook up Plaid into the signup system. Although we have it on one of them and then the customer called me and goes, oh, what's this Plaid thing? I don't wanna do that. And I was like, it's just, you know, and then they selected the wrong bank account. I had to go back and redo it. Because it pulls up like when you link up Plaid, it shows you all your bank accounts and then you tell them which one you want it for. So it's, you know, but everything's about an experience today. Paying a bill, you know, you're going to do—

paying a bill is an experience. No, that shit is tragic.

No, no. But what I'm saying is, is, yeah, if it makes it— if a company makes it easy for you to do business with them, you're going to do business with them.

Absolutely.

So, you know, the same thing, like, and people, what are they spending their money on today? Like, even like, even like vacations, right? When people go on a vacation, like a cruise is an experience vacation, or a tour is an experience vacation. Do I want to go just to the beach, or do I want to go to Alaska and go on like an adventure? You know what I mean?

I want to buy groceries this weekend.

Okay, but I'm just saying like, Those are the choices like people are making. Listen, even buying groceries is an experience. When you go to the stores, the store—

It's painful.

It's definitely painful. That one guy posted a picture and that made my stomach sick that we saw when guy said, oh, in 2020, his grocery bill was $100 and what, $16, and now it's over $400 for the exact same items in the cart. At Walmart.

Then nonetheless, anyway, man, yeah, the experience at the grocery store, I, I don't know, like the way that they self-checkout. I'm not, I, I've never been a fan of self-checkout, only when I need to borrow things. Um, so yeah, I don't, I like to, I like the experience of talking to someone.

Yeah, there's a lot, some of the stores took the self-checkout out of there because they had an enormous amount of, uh, borrowing. Yeah, borrowing. People borrowing stuff from the store.

Well, you know, I don't know.

Shouldn't make it so easy. It is what it is.

You know, this is why people— this is why, you know, humans can't self-govern themselves. It goes back to like the simple task of putting your shopping cart back into the—

are you one of those people that leave your shopping cart in front of your car? No, I always walk, take the extra time and put it in the I've asked you this question before. The bin thing. I've even walked it up to the front, or if I see somebody with a cart, I'll take their cart and they'll say, oh.

Sean, do you leave your cart by your car or do you walk it back?

Walk it back.

All right, thank you. You're a good citizen.

Yeah, I don't like that when I go to a parking lot and you see carts everywhere. I mean, most parking lots now, they put those little areas where you can go stick your carts up. In there, but still some people just throw it in front of their car.

I wonder if the shopping cart police guy is still around.

Shopping cart police?

Yeah, his ass almost got shot one time. Wow.

Yeah, I mean, some of the shopping carts, if you look on the bottom of the wheels, they have a little thing down there and it's so people can't take them off the property.

Yeah, it's stupid.

Why does somebody want the shopping cart?

Because that's all they have.

To put all their stuff in, I guess.

But yeah, man, uh, shopping experience is, uh, now it's that whole— the whole grocery store vibe, energy, experience is nothing from what it like when I was a kid. You know, it used to be like so welcoming, and you used to want to go to the grocery store to get these you know, you would— there would be people set up, you know, giving you items to try. And, you know, just a lot of— it was just a really— I just remember really enjoying going to the, to the grocery store.

Costco does that.

That's—

but not—

but, you know, members only, man.

You don't see that in Publix or anything.

No, not very seldom.

Yeah, seldom. You know what I mean?

And, you know, it's like the people who Anyway, you could just tell that everyone is going through it, man, and no one is happy, and everyone is just pretty grumpy, and no one wants to, you know, even clock in and do their job.

So if you're going to start a bit, you know, somebody who's going to start a new type of experience business today, let us know what that kind of business would be. That we— what type of experience would you provide for cut— for people that they would want to have.

Smash the subscribe button for us, man. We appreciate y'all, the listeners out there who tune in, all 8 of you. No, I'm just kidding. Anyway, man, subscribe to the channel on YouTube for us, please. We would greatly appreciate it. To all the people who do listen to the podcast, that's it, man. Peace out.

Peace out. Carpe diem.