The Dream Job Whisperer: Josef Stetter on Helping 11,000 People Get Hired | Biz To Biz Podcast

Welcome to the Biz to Biz Podcast, your number one source for all business news. Hey everybody, welcome to today's episode of B2B Vault, the Biz to Biz Podcast sponsored by Nationwide Payment Systems. I'm your host, Allen Kopelman, sometimes referred to as the Merchant Maverick of South Florida. And Nationwide Payment Systems, we help people, you know, get merchant accounts and figure out how to keep your merchant account. We love working with all types of business, from startups to large companies, doesn't matter. That's, that's what we do. And today we have a special guest for the show, Joseph Stettler, and he is from a company called the Celebrate Group. And I want to introduce Joseph to everybody. So Joseph, introduce yourself to the B2B Vault crowd.

Let us First of all, Allen, thank you for giving me the opportunity, and I'm honored and excited to be part of your podcast. So in terms of who I am, I personally didn't know what I want to do when I grew up, so I switched careers 9 times and jobs over 18 times. I've been in recruiting for over 20 or close to 20 years. I've worked with small to global companies such as Deloitte and Touche, Apotex Pharmaceuticals, Tata Consulting Services. So I've been a generalist in recruiting for 20 years. I've also had the honor and the pleasure of helping over 12,000 people land their dream job in as little as 2 days. I've written 10 international bestselling books. I've— I'm a keynote speaker and yeah, working on a few other projects at the moment.

So tell you, when we were talking earlier, you were mentioning an AI project. Tell us a little bit about that.

So what I'm noticing right now is that HR as a whole is broken. We are building newer systems to try and automate and screen at human, but we're eliminating the human experience. And what's happening is the AI platform right now for job finding is such a wild, wild west show where one platform says, for example, if you need 10 years of experience but you only have 8, we'll give you partial points, whereas another one will give you zero points. And one says you need to have this sentence, and if you don't have this sentence, we eliminate your resume completely. Another one says let's say you need 25 skills that are technical related to your job, but you've only written 20. So some will give you partial points, some will give you no points. And so because we don't know which system what company uses, it is happening right now where a lot of brilliant people are being passed over because they're not coming close to matching on the AI scanners. So I'm building something that will match people not only on their technical skills, but also their character or soft skills in terms of behavior, in terms of personality, in terms of cultural fit. And so that, you know, the right people are getting promoted into the job. So people like, for example, engineers that work for 10 years might be very good technically, and a lot of times when they get promoted because they are the most senior in the company, they find it as a punishment because they don't want to deal with people, they don't want to delegate. So now, I'm building a system where leadership can actually see who wants to get promoted, who doesn't want to get promoted, who wants to be told they're doing a good job, who wants to, you know, let's say, learn new things. And so instead of just giving them the generic 2 to 3% bonus, I can come to you and say, Allen, you've done a great job. We can either give you your standard 2 to 3% raise, or we will pay for development, whether professional or personal, for you, and you get to choose which one is of more value to you. And that way, unfortunately, right now turnover in North America is costing $1.4 trillion a year, and one open position in a company costs on average between $100,000 and $180,000 per month. So if a company's got, let's say, 10 open positions for 6 months, we're talking $100,000 on the low end, times 10 positions, that's $1 million times 6 months, that's $6 million in losses of revenue. So my system will allow for engagement, reduce turnover by more than 70%, increase engagement by 50%, hire the right fit people, and then also help the organizations groom internally the people that will grow with the company to leadership, you know, and also, you know, small to medium-sized businesses, you know, have issues hiring too.

And, you know, you're dealing with platforms like Indeed and—

right. So Indeed, so I'm targeting the small to medium that want to become giants. Indeed, for example, one job posting on Indeed gets between 350 and 5,000 applications. Most companies look at the first 100. So if you're 102 and you don't know, for example, these simple little tricks. Number 1, Indeed, CareerBuilder, Monster, most of the big job boards or applicant tracking systems refresh their database between 11:45 PM Eastern Standard Time and 2:45 AM Eastern Standard Time. So depending on when you go to sleep, go into your resume, press spacebar anywhere on the resume, and press save. The moment that you do that, you've made a change to your resume and your resume is now fresh in the daily recordings of new emails that come to the employer. If you posted your resume in January and we're now in May, you're probably on page 7,000 of the database. Nobody sees you. The other problem with Indeed and so forth is we've been taught for the past 100 years to populate our resume with action words like managed, directly, ace, coordinated. But the applicant tracking system measures the technical words associated with your job. So they're measuring if you're an accountant accounting, financial statements, general ledger reconciliation, not manage directly. And so people are writing the, like, a lot of fluff because people that write, I'm hardworking— how do you measure hardworking? You know, what's the standard? Every company has their own style or definition of that. How do you measure—

we just had a, we just had a job opening, right? So we got over 150 people applied, and then You know, it's a more of an entry-level type of a job being an administrative assistant slash sales assistant. So you're answering the phone, following up on sales leads, working, you know, in the CRM, things like that. Right. And it amazed me like how many people just, they just click, but they don't write anything like why they want the job, why they should get hired.

Again, unfortunately, we've been programmed to have autoresponders. So for example, in an interview, Most employers say, "Tell me about this job." Most people auto-respond with, "I know how to do this," or "I have experience in this." So using the example you just sent to me, if you're hiring someone to work partially as a receptionist and someone says to you, "I know how to answer the phone," I hope, Allen, you look at them in shock and go, "Really? A receptionist that knows how to answer the phone? We did not know that." Because unless they live in an igloo, a cave, or practice Faith of Mennonite, my 2-and-a-half-year-old son can press the green button, go, hello, and it's very cute. Now, if someone says to you, I know how to answer 60 calls a day with 12 different lines, you can measure 60 calls a day in 12 different lines and compare that to the volume of work that you might have and therefore kind of judge that. But if people kind of just tell you that they know how to do something rather than the results that they produced, rather than the significance of the work that they do, Nobody cares because it's a dime a dozen to have someone. I mean, everybody knows how to answer the phone, you know.

So we had like checkboxes. Do you know how to use Adobe? Do you know how to use Microsoft? Would you know how to use, you know, do you know how to write emails? Like, you know, little questions, right? And then very few people like answered the questions. I get it. Like people, we, I talk to people with 20 years experience of working in an office, right? And I talk to people with very little experience, but you know, you want to hire somebody that kind of fits into your business, especially when you're a small business. Are they enthusiastic? Do they want to learn? Are they willing to learn? I tell people all the time, they ask me like, well, when you're hiring somebody, what's one of the things you ask them? We ask, oh, you have any experience using, you know, like OpenAI or any of the AI tools? Like, you need to learn how And if you don't, most people I talked to didn't, didn't really even say that they used it or even experiment.

Right. So here's where I would modify, and this is again for small businesses, very important. Instead of saying, do you know this, which is kind of a yes or no, ask them, like, for example, what is the most creative email you've ever written? And get them to describe that because then you can kind of sense their flavor too. Or what's the most complicated conversation you've had with AI because AI is not, yes, AI can automate some of the tasks and make them simpler. But for example, Allen, you have a certain personality. So if you're trying AI like ChatGPT to write your emails and you have certain mannerism in terms of how you speak, certain kind of jokes or sayings that you have every single time, you need to teach your AI that you say those things, whether it's at the end of the email or at the beginning of the email or in the body of the email, so that your AI kind of matches who you are. So once you've taught it how to communicate the way that you do, then yes, your life becomes a lot easier. But even hiring an administrative assistant, if they're going to kind of message for you, they also need to be able to kind of get your essence. And this is what's missing a lot of days right now. And most resumes, they don't write their essence, they just write I have experience and I have knowledge, right?

It's kind of hard, you know, it's, it's so difficult, you know, in hiring people. Sometimes I, I'll hire somebody because I like, like, their attitude and their enthusiasm over somebody that just tells me, oh yeah, I have all this experience, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but then, you know, they have very little enthusiasm or creativity, you know, doing things because everything like from a technology standpoint, things are moving so fast, you know, technologically, probably in every type of job that there is. Right. And that kind of also creates, you know, you know, like also instability in the economy. Right. Somebody says, oh, the economy's looking a little unstable, they're going to maybe get rid of a few people maybe they feel are not productive at work, and they're not going to replace them for a while. And I think right now there's a lot of job seekers out there, and I don't think they, like, you know, pay attention to, like, what's on their resume. Like, how many years do you need to go back?

Because the maximum, I would say, is 20 years. Don't put the dates that you got your education, because then I can figure out your age exactly, uh, in terms of hiding it. Because there's a catch point too, where Yes, the younger new graduates potentially are cheaper, but you cannot pay for experience. So understand that, like, like, I'm a resume writer. I've helped 12,000 people land their dream job in as little as 2 days. And so I've earned the right to say I know the nuances, I know the algorithm. Just because someone goes on ChatGPT and says, write me a mechanical engineering resume, right? What ChatGPT will produce and what I produce are very different because I explain the essence of the person. I explain their, you know, their, the significance of their works, not just I've done this technical things and say just jargon. And so, there even, let's say for this podcast, there's a difference between someone who's done 10 podcasts versus someone who's done 100 podcasts versus someone who's done 500 podcasts where again, I'm not disrespecting anybody that's, doing their thing and getting their message out. But when you've done 10 podcasts, you might have more technical difficulties. You might have certain things where the equipment is more basic. When you've done 100 podcasts, you've done 500 podcasts, you start investing in best, better equipment. You start investing in better marketing. You start investing in certain, the way that once the podcast is recorded that you share it with them. So like, here's a short reel, here's a long reel, and depending on the service that you offer. But again, that comes from experience and knowledge, not just prompting an AI and saying, okay, do all this for me right now. And you don't know anything about me, for example.

Right. And a lot of people, you know, like when you're looking at employees, people don't realize the employer is going to probably, you know, they're either going to search for your social media accounts, they're going to look for your LinkedIn. And for sure, that's the first place they look. Yeah, LinkedIn. And they want to see like, okay, does this person have their LinkedIn filled out? Is there a picture there? And they're going to look at your social media because I was talking to a friend of mine that has a pretty, you know, they have like over 100 employees. And I was like, well, what do you guys, what do you do when you're looking, look, looking to hire people? You know, do you look at their social media? And he was telling me, goes, oh yeah. He goes, we don't want to bring anyone into the office that is a lightning rod, whatever, one way or another, you know, is, is going, you know, constantly posting on social media because they're probably not going to get their job done. It's like one of my friends is IT director for a big company and he was telling me, he goes, yeah, he goes, when you come into the building, he goes, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're on your phone or you're on their computers or your own laptop from your house because you can't access dating sites, you can't access Amazon to do shopping. He goes, you can't get on— there's like a whole— they have a whole list of sites like NCAA tournament, like you can't get on there and do all that because they found that like employees were just wasting hours a day on these websites. And it was pretty funny. I was like, how easy is it to block? He's like, yeah, he goes, uh, you know, he goes, I made a list of them and they're blocked on the network.

Right. I mean, there is layers of blocking because obviously people can use VPNs and things like that. But at the end of the day, this is kind of the problem with the workforce as a whole. We have so much— I'll use the word fluff in job descriptions where, you know, other duties assignment, excellent communication skills. But because we don't define them, people don't know what the expectations are of the job. And so there's a level where right now If I were to line up, let's say, 10 different jobs from an engineer, from a marketer, from a salesperson, from an administrative assistant, from an accountant, from a lawyer, 70% of the job description is exactly identical for all of those jobs. And so the problem is that people kind of go, oh my God, they said we need someone who is spectacular. Let me add the word spectacular to my resume because that's going to be the customization that they're looking for. No, it's not. That's just wasted energy in essence, because you're not doing anything to help your scoring on the resume if you're not putting the technical terms, you're not kind of quantifying the results. Because here's the thing, I don't know the level of work. So, you know, I can say to you, I'm an excellent salesperson, Allen. I know how to do B2B, B2C, account management, relationship building, lead generations. I've worked in retail, I've done door-to-door sales, I've done car sales, I've worked in private education. I've worked in recruiting. I know how to do sales. Now, everything I just said is important for the scoring of the algorithm in Indeed or LinkedIn for a sales job. However, just because I've had a lot of jobs does not mean I'm good at it. However, if I give you an example that says— and this is a real example— I work for a private college that when I came in generated $530,000 in sales for the entire year. In one month I was able to generate $860,000 in sales for them. Which one would convince you that I know how to do sales? All of my experience or that story?

No, the story is much better.

How do you think—

here's another question for you. How do you think the, like, VAs, virtual assistants, right? I must get 20 emails a week or more. Oh, we have the best virtual assistants. Hire virtual assistants, save tons of money. Me, stop paying people these high wages in the US, wherever you— Canada, wherever you are, and hire all these— hire a virtual assistant. I mean, how do you feel like— I mean, between that and like the hybrid workplace, how do you think that's, um, you know, affecting, affecting the job market? I mean, I, we— I've had a lot of people come to me, they're like, oh, I want to— they're in another state— oh, I want to work at home. I mean, right. So here's the thing, it's probably harder to manage that than somebody with a larger business.

Yes and no. I mean, again, if you set up the expectations and standards and the level of work from the get-go, then it is. Obviously, with the fact that people on virtual, you have a wider workforce. So there's a lot more competition. But understand that there's a reason that, for example, most car manufacturers yearly recall cars, you know, various technological products are being recalled because we've kind of cut corners and stopped having standards in terms of ethics, morals, you know, quality control. And what's happening is that we're saving money here, but we're paying for it 2 years later when you know, we need to fix all the mistakes that have been done. So if you're going to have a virtual assistant, again, it's how you screen them. So it's not enough to say, do you know how to do emails? But can you create an email campaign for a week and show me the different emails and explain to me why you chose to focus on this or why you said this rather than this? So if you start asking more open-ended questions, you can screen out the level of work. At the end of the day, I mean, for example, most psychiatrists and psychologists have virtual, have had virtual assistants way, way before the pandemic because they usually have an office where they have a, a waiting room and then the actual office where they do this therapy. So they've had assistants that are virtual ongoing. Again, I think the biggest problem is that we are not defining properly the expectations. Of the top 10 reasons— like, sadly, 80 to 90% of people in North America hate their job. And of the top, of the top 3 reasons why people hate their job, salary is actually number 7. The top 3 are extremely toxic work culture, number 2, lack of understanding what leadership wants or expects, and number 3, lack of bringing new ideas. To help the business grow. So at the end of the day, here's the thing. Like you said, you're looking for energy, you're looking for this. I mean, it's the same thing where you go to a restaurant and you have a waitress or a waiter that are smiling and positive and checking in with you where they're not bothering you every 2 minutes, but they're kind of walking by and go, oh, your water's empty, let me refill it. And you don't have to call them and ask for that, where that energy, you're gonna give them a better tip than someone that just does the bare minimum. Here's your food kind of thing. They smiled at you and they gave the food. And so it's the same concept right now. And this is something that I deal with as a corporate culturist a lot where organizations preach culture, but they don't practice it. My friend, my friend got hired at a bank as a senior director. When they interviewed her, they showed her this beautiful state-of-the-art yoga room. She's like, okay, they get it. It's a young CEO. They understand mental health and wellness. I'm excited to work here. As soon as she got hired, there's no yoga instructor. There's no incentive for her or anybody in the, in the bank to actually teach yoga. She doesn't even get an extra 10 minutes at lunch to go do yoga by herself and still have time to eat food. So you have this beautiful empty room that no one's using for the sake of showing people that you care, but you're not actually caring. And so part of the conversations that I have with companies is to go, you gotta stop the lip service. You gotta start leading by example and doing what you preach, not just saying we're doing it. But because let's say I'm a big kid at heart, I love Halloween. And so if the company says, let's, let's do a Halloween costume party, but none of the executives dress up, it sends a message of, yeah, yeah, whatever, we don't care, just go do your thing. This is the difference between people following you and trusting you to people doing just enough not to get fired, but, you know, disengage completely. Because if the leadership doesn't care, and I don't care if you have meetings all day, you have podcasts all day, come in for 15 minutes, wear a mask from the dollar store, go shake hands, take some pictures of people that actually dressed up, acknowledge the effort that they put in, take off your mask, go do your meetings. But If you don't even care to do that, then why would your employees care about working harder and being more productive for you? Why would your employees care about giving you ideas that can help your company grow? And so this is a massive disconnect that's happening in pretty much every industry, with a few exceptions, because obviously companies like Meta and Google, um, have gone out of their way to make sure that they treat their people really, really well. And so You're seeing that, but you don't need Google money to create a corporate culture. Corporate culture is not just buying pizza. Corporate culture is what people whisper when the leadership's not around.

No, I get it. It's— listen, I worked for— I worked in the hotel industry. I worked for a mid-sized, you know, hotel management company. And then, you know, I've had my own businesses for like over 30 years. And, you know, it's You know, you try to be like a good boss, be understanding, listen to what people have to say. I mean, ultimately, the owner, the ownership has to make decisions based on what they can afford to do, not, you know, so, you know, all of that comes into mind. I'll never forget when I was in the hotel business, you know, one time I— the owner of the hotel company came and he's like, okay, you know, you're going to come into this new hotel. And we need to revamp everything. And he said, okay, well, you know, I want a list of suggestions. And then I remember, I don't know why I did it. I said, okay, well, I'm going to give you a list of suggestions, but you know, what's the budget? And he said to me, he goes, what do you mean, what's the budget? I said, well, you know, I could come with you with some crazy idea that, oh, I want to read, I want to, the dining room is ugly. And we need to remodel the dining room. Like, okay, well, is there a budget for that? Is there a budget for— what's the budget? And, you know, so they sat me down and they sat me down and they go, listen, we'll go to the hotel and do a walkthrough. And, you know, you tell us what you think is wrong, you know, and then we're going to come back and tell you yes to this and no to that. And.

Right.

You know, and I think a lot of employees get scared because they go, how much will they, you know, how much will they spend? Will they spend $100 grand? Or if it's a small company, will they spend $5,000 or will they spend $1,000? I think you have to, you know, when you, when, you know, if you're, you have to just ask and go, okay, well, what are you willing to spend on this project? You know, right. And, and kind of like go from there because, you know, people have their risk tolerance. It's like either group of young men the other day that were waiting for the company next door, and it's hot outside in Florida, so they were all standing around outside. I said, come in the AC, right? And we were having a discussion. They were asking me about investing. So I said, well, if you're going to invest money, has to be money you're not afraid to lose. If you, if you can risk $100, then you make, you know, you invest. If you can't afford to lose $100 because you won't be able to pay your rent, then you shouldn't be investing. So it's the same for business, you know, and people need to, you know, I think employees sometimes get worried or let's say you're looking for a job and they're hiring you and they say, okay, well, you know, we need to redo our website. We're going to do this and we're going to do that. You know, you should ask, hey, what's the timeline? You know, you, you know what, how, how fast do you think, you know, are you looking to get this done? What if I need someone to help me? Is that in the budget? You know, you have to not be afraid to ask those questions.

You know, right? And this is where I'm going to tie it back to job seekers, because job seekers need to stop sending a resume and waiting for a response. They need to be a lot more proactive and say, hey, here's me, here's what I do, here's how well I do it. I need you to notice me, you know. I had a friend that graduated mechanical engineering and started applying for a job. Every entry-level job that he was looking for was a 5-year requirement to, like, you know, you need 5 years to have an entry-level job. And he was like, okay. And so he sent out a couple hundred resumes, never got a response. So he picked about 20 companies that he really liked and printed his resume, went to the first one, said, I'd like to speak to the director. The receptionist was like, do you have an appointment? He's like, no. They're like, well, he's busy. He's like, okay, I'll wait. And he waited there until 2:30 in the afternoon. At 2:30 in the afternoon, the director came out and said, how can I help you? And my friend said, I know there's no job postings right now, but I just graduated. These are the projects I did in mechanical engineering. I'd love to work for the company because I've researched you and I think you're like an innovator. And literally within 10 minutes of him just introducing himself, a position that did not exist was created just for him because he sat there from 9 o'clock in the morning until 2:30 just waiting for an opportunity to speak to the director, for example. And we're not doing that anymore. We're not.

Oh no, people are not doing that. They're not showing up at your front door. They're just pressing the button, apply, apply, apply, apply. Not even taking time to write a note. Oh, please consider me for this job.

But they're not even reading. They read the job like, I'm looking hiring right now, like physiotherapist and occupational therapist and behavior therapist in, and speech pathologist in Atlanta, Georgia for a client of mine. Do you know how many resumes I've gotten of like, I'm a barber, I think I could be a good physiotherapist. Like, did you even read the word physiotherapist on the job description? Like, if you don't have experience, but you got the education, great, I'm willing to talk to you. But you don't even have the education that requires for the license. So how are you gonna be a physiotherapist if what, you watch YouTube videos kind of thing? It's not, you know, there's liability, there's more than just there. And a lot of times I'm like, okay, like I understand you're like, you're open to relocate because my job post says my client will pay for relocation. But in the same respect, like I love people that have transferable skills and resources and as someone who switched careers 9 times, I get it. But I can't bypass the regulations. Like, you can't just call yourself, you know, you just can't call yourself a physiotherapist or occupational therapist. You can't say you're a lawyer because you watch Law Order. So, or Suits or something like that. Exactly. And so there's a level where you have to own that you still need to follow certain protocols.

So let's wrap up the podcast with this for job seekers. And another thing I want to tell job seekers, I tell this, I told this to my son one time when he he was interviewing for a job. When you go, they're interviewing you, but you're also interviewing them. Remember that. But I want you to give me 5 tips for job seekers today as we finish up the podcast.

Okay, so to optimize your job search, 10% of your time— sorry, uh, sorry, sorry, alarm. Sorry. So, uh, 10% of your time should be spent on job boards like Indeed, and Career Builder because it's still a resource, but it's statistically against you. 25% of your time should be spent on LinkedIn and other social media because most companies now have a business page. And if you start engaging in the business page, make comments, ask questions, the companies will start following you. And on LinkedIn, you can also see who works there and maybe build a relationship with them. 25% of your time should be using employment agencies, staffing firms, recruiters, headhunters, whatever you want to call them. Because they already have relationships with the companies that you're trying to get to. 25% of your search should be networking and going to events, not the free events that everybody can go to, but the ones that you actually have to pay out of pocket to go to, because usually when there's a cost to it, it's higher caliber of people that show up because there's skin in the game. And then the last 15% should be pick companies that you're interested in and target them specifically. Now, this is something that now more than ever, even if you don't have an official podcast, if you use LinkedIn InMail, which costs about $45 a month and you can get up to 30 people that are not in your network, you can message, let's say, directors, VPs at a company that you're trying to work for and ask to interview them about their genius, about what made them so successful. You know, so ask questions like, what made you so successful? What are your 3 biggest accomplishments and why? You know, what strategy are you most proud of that you've implemented that produced results? You know, if you were mentoring somebody that was in this industry, what would you focus on mentoring them on?

Would you also put in there, don't be afraid to go apply in person?

No, but I'm saying, but if you do this as a podcast and say, okay, when you hire people, What are the characteristics that you want? What are the key kind of technical expertise? Because now they're also hinting to you that this is what they want. Now here's the beauty. If you've done the podcast interview, you can say, you know what, I'm also in this industry, I'm relatively new. Don't ask for the job right away. Ask, would you mind giving me feedback on my resume? Because when they give you feedback on your resume, they're writing the perfect resume they want to see on their team. So after they wrote their resume, if you kind of go, sit, you know what, I learned so much from you, Allen. I was so impressed with your examples. I would love to be part of your team. I would love to make you look good and give you a better, bigger and better bonus, right? Can, can I join your team? Now they've just written the resume that they want to see. You've given them an opportunity to brag about how great they are. And so they're excited about potentially having on the team because you're in a different energy than everyone else that's just using Indeed, to apply for a job, for example.

That's an interesting approach. I've never had anybody try to do that before, but that's pretty cool. So if people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for people to get in touch with you?

Joseph, sorry, one second.

Uh-oh, you're muted.

Sorry, technical. No. So Joseph Stetter everywhere on social media. Nice and easy. I'm very active on LinkedIn, but I'm pretty much on all the social media platforms.

All right. So if you guys want to get in touch with Joseph, look him up on LinkedIn. We'll put his link in the bio and watch for his new AI tool that's going to probably be coming out soon. We'll be looking forward to when you launch that. Let us know. We'll get you back on the podcast. Thank you, everybody, for listening today to B2B Vault. Hope everybody learned something about, you know, what to do when you're out there looking for work and employers learned about what employees are dealing with and maybe get better ideas on how to interview and write job postings and things like that. And hope everybody enjoyed today's podcast, B2B Vault. We're on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, everywhere else you can listen to podcasts. And also on YouTube. And you can follow us on LinkedIn. You can get in touch with me on LinkedIn as well. Everybody, peace out. Carpe diem. Seize the day. Thank you for being a guest today, Joseph.