Trade School vs College! Which is Better? | B2B Vault - The Biz To Biz Podcast | Episode 250

You are now watching the Biz to Biz Podcast with Allen and Justin. Yo, what's up everybody? It's Justin live from B2B Vault, the Biz to Biz Podcast sponsored by Nationwide Payment Systems, hosted by this guy, the Mike Rowe of payment processing himself, Allen Kopelman. And in today's podcast, uh, we're going to be discussing going to traditional college, 2-year, 4-year university or trade school, getting a, you know, a certification or, you know, whatnot. But yeah, it's a good— lots of debate to go back and forth about.

I know it could also be discussion about business too, because, you know, if you're opening a business and entrepreneurship, of course, entrepreneurship with with that too. Doing well, getting ready to head out on a— to the Southeast Acquire Show in New Orleans for a couple days.

Office is going to be very quiet.

You'll miss Rocky. No, I won't. You will. You'll miss me.

Yeah, you know, stuff— this— when Al Allen is gone, the stuff that I put off because, "What are you doing? What is that?" All of that, you know, just the— The technical stuff, the little nerdy technical stuff. I dread doing that when you're around, so I'm gonna— there's some technical work that needs to be done for sure.

Okay. I know you started on something the other day.

See, I didn't even tell you about anything, but yeah.

Well, that's because I got an email about it.

Oh, there you go.

So I knew about it.

What did I do?

Something with— something with GoDaddy fixing some links.

Yes, absolutely.

Um, I'm not totally unaware.

Well, I mean That's only because it was a chat. Okay, whatever. That's not even what I'm— that's, that's on them.

I'll tell you what, they gotta fix that. Whatever they fixed on our website, one of the things I'll tell you, one thing, it blocked a bunch of these scumbag people who've been emailing me all kinds of stupid emails about, oh, you're—

no, they didn't do anything for the website. They They, they finally enabled the security protocols that I've been asking about for a year.

Yeah, because they didn't have that, that they weren't compatible with something.

You didn't like the way that it would change your email. I get it, Allen. But we got it done and it wasn't that painful.

No, it wasn't that painful.

So it happened. Yeah.

Next step is getting away from more third-party things and then I'll be super happy. Well, that's something you got to work out. I'm not—

that's your— Yeah, but it's more of a— you have to be willing for change too. But anyway, yeah, man, it's Friday, June 7th, 12:38 PM. Thanks to Rocky, he's letting somebody have it.

I don't know. He's protecting us. Rocky, come over here.

Yeah. So, yeah, man, headed for the weekend. But by the time you guys see this, it'll be Wednesday or Friday next week, something like that. So, yeah, man, what's your thoughts on going to trade school or I think college—

I mean, I think college is good if you're going into certain types of professions. You know, you want to be a lawyer, a doctor, an engineer, a biologist, things like that. I think there's a big— there's a lot of people that you talk to and you say, oh, what did you go to college for? And then they're not even in that profession. They're not even in any related profession.

Right.

And I think that, you know, we have a big problem with, um, we've had a big problem with student loans, obviously. And, um, I don't think I should pay for people's student loans.

Yeah, you'd be surprised how many lawyers are flipping burgers.

Yeah, well, you know, not everybody could be a good lawyer.

I don't know.

Um, it's, you know, it's— I just think it's a I think that— I think there's a— there's a misconception about how much money you can make in certain jobs. So if you went to college— if you didn't go to college, and let's just say I have like one friend of mine's son, right? So he didn't like— he didn't go to college. He went to work for an air conditioning company, started as an apprentice, got certified, to fix air conditioners. Then he got good at the sales part of it, became— now he's, now he's like the one of the sales managers, goes out and helps the, helps the technicians make a sale, you know, and does all that. And he's, you know, and he's making a decent living in his late 20s, knocking down a six-figure income. So there are jobs. And, you know, like I have another friend of mine, son, he decided After a couple of semesters at college, it wasn't for him. One of his friends was making a lot of money doing welding, so he became— took the— took the— went to the school, became a welder, and he's making six-figure income for sure. So, you know, there's lots of jobs— roofers, plumbing, electricians.

I mean, there's a lot that's, you know, when you're young, that the trades are a great opportunity for people. Like, uh, school isn't for everyone. I keep trying to tell that to all my, you know, my kids. I've raised a bunch of, you know, entrepreneurial-minded, um, right? The oldest, not so much, but, um, but it's just like trying to, to, to, to steer them down a path to where You know, they have freedom of what they want to do in life, you know what I'm saying? And I think it really depends on what it is that individual has planned for its life, right? Like, you know, trade school isn't for everyone, college ain't for everyone, you know, maybe a regular 9 to 5 is just what, you know, that person is gonna be doing for the rest of their lives, but, um, I think it's sad that the trades aren't promoted or looked at like the doctors and the lawyers because the trades guys are the guys that keep the doctors' and the lawyers' offices cool or hot during the winter or the plumbing not leaking shit water from the ceiling.

Making sure your computer works.

Or the tech guy that's, you know what I mean, running the internet, the, you know, the infrastructure. And so, yeah, there's a lot. I think that, you know, my dad always, you know, emphasized when I was a shorty that to be, you know, treat the janitor like you would the CEO, you know what I mean? The guy that's cleaning the toilets is just as important as the guy running the office.

You know, it's true. You know, the guy like you introduced me today, Mike Rowe, you know, he was the guy, dirty jobs guy. And I see them on TV shows all the time now discussing like there's a big shortage of people in trades.

Yeah.

I mean, you go call somebody to do roofing and, you know, they don't have enough roofers.

I mean, if I wouldn't have in a different multiverse, right? In a different universe, I would have been doing I was a power engineer, so like Homer Simpson, right?

And this is the barking podcast.

Yeah, this is terrible. It's terrible.

Rocky, who's here? Somebody came here? Just shush, stay here.

Whatever. What were you saying?

We're talking Homer Simpson.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, you got hurt on that job, right? Yeah, I got hurt on that job. And so yeah, like, that's, you know, I had my, uh, high-pressure boiler license so I could, you know what I mean? And then I had a bunch of pesticide license and all that other happy horseshit that you have to have, right? You were like a building manager.

Yeah, let me tell you, there's like, when I was in the hotel business, that these, you know, that, um, guys that were like the chief engineer of the hotel. Yeah, that'd be certified in like everything— plumbing, electrical, elevators.

Uh, I was actually thinking about getting the elevator guy. Those guys make bank. Yeah, they make so much bread fixing the elevator. Yeah.

Yeah, it's crazy.

They make a lot of money.

Something—

so, so, you know what I mean? Like, don't get it twisted. The guy that's, you know, hopping out his car, you know, full of grease, or, you know what I mean, like paint, whatever, sewage, plumbing, water, dirt— those guys are making money too, man. Like, trust and believe that.

Yeah, that, you know, and that's a business where like Maybe you start out working for somebody and you learn the business and then you decide, okay, well, you know, I'm gonna start my own business.

In your community, you can help your people in your community.

Yeah.

You can make it affordable.

Right, and then you hire people and, you know, you be late, you know, become more of a manager of the, you know, down the road.

Yeah, there's this one kid that I went to elementary, middle school, whatever. His name was Julian Coleman, right? And word is bond, ever since he was like a little kid, he would say that he was going to be a plumber, right? And he owns a huge plumbing company in Milwaukee, Diamond Plumbing. Um, yeah, he executed everything that he said he was It was, you know, it was crazy because like everybody else—

Is his family in the plumbing business?

No, no. He, uh, you know, he grew up tough, you know what I'm saying? So, uh, he, uh, I guess like it was like one of those days, like MPS, the public school system used to be real big on trades. There was like two schools, the tech, you know, like you would go and learn carpentry, whatever, electrician.

Yeah, they have in Broward County two technicals. High schools, McFatter and Atlantic. Yeah, I think one of the— I think some of them you have to be over 18.

I don't think McFatter is the one. Yeah, my daughter was something.

Some of the programs, yeah, to be over 18. I don't like that.

This, you know, it is what it is. Shout out to Julian, man. You, uh, that was always inspiring to watch. I guess like somebody came to talk about being a plumber and I'm like, he's like, oh yeah, that's what I'm gonna do.

I'm gonna be a plumber.

And he was literally a plumber.

Like, he probably started working for somebody and then he started his own company.

I don't think so.

I think he just went to school.

He went and got his license. Like, you have to go through an apprenticeship, right?

You have to work somewhere.

Yeah, right, that, that way. Yeah, of course. But then after that, nah, he hit the ground running. I remember that. Like, he was pumped, man. Like, So yeah, I know now he does a lot of commercial stuff. So but yeah, I mean, it's cool, you know, plumbing, carpentry is a lost trade. My, where I'm from in Wisconsin, like that's kind of like a big thing, right? Because you got to build shit like it gets cold and you got to be able to know how to fix your car when it shuts down on the freeway and it's 40 below zero. You know what I'm saying? Like, you just got to be multitalented, I guess, you know what I'm saying?

Like, yeah.

And, uh, my uncle, um, he, he's like a master carpenter. He could build you a house right from his hands, like, no problem.

Okay.

Like, and, uh, so yeah, he used to try to get us into that shit. And like, I painted houses for like, for many summers. I would paint houses for the summer to make money when I was in college. Little kid. But yeah, I think the college route, man, like if you talk to a lot of successful people, like, you know, whatever, you know, I've talked to successful, a lot of, you know, fairly successful. None of them really went to college.

I mean, Mark Zuckerberg didn't finish college. Bill Gates didn't finish college.

I mean, you can go on and on and on and on.

I mean, basically, if you have an idea and you have the— you have an idea and you have the drive, right, you can do whatever you want to do. Listen, I went to— I was working in restaurants and I wanted to be a chef. I had gone to college for like a year and a half, right? One of the jobs I wanted to do was— my dad thought was dumb. He's like, I want to get a job at Turner Broadcasting. When it was first started, TNT. And I was like, oh, I can get a job there because I was— I did television and radio stuff in high school. So I was like, oh, so I was— I went there to get a job. And my dad was like, you're not taking a job, cable TV? He goes, that's dumb. No one's going to watch cable TV.

Right. He was wrong.

And then, and then I thought about being a DJ and I had a friend of mine that was a disc jockey. And he said, I met when I was getting a haircut one day, and this guy goes, I said, what do you do? He said, I was a— I was assistant manager at a restaurant at the time in my early 20s, and this guy was a disc jockey. He was just starting out, so he had that midnight shift.

Okay.

So he's like, oh, you want to come hang, you know, hang out? Because I'll show you what it is. But that— now you don't have to have like a the FC license, you can be a disc jockey and then they have another guy that's the, you know, has the broadcast license so they can shut you off, you know, say a curse word.

Oh, okay.

Right. But back then you had to have the license to be a DJ. You couldn't be unlicensed. So I looked into going to school for that. But whenever I became a chef, I became executive chef. And, you know, then I was 38, 39 years old and I decided it was time for a career change.

Yeah. So do you think like, is college really worth it?

I think it's worth it if it's a profession.

I think it's worth it if you want to be a doctor. But what were you saying?

No, like it's worth it if there's a perf— you have to look at it like, I think some of these colleges should be ashamed of themselves. Like you're gonna have all these people in there getting a liberal arts degree. Okay, what are they gonna do with that? Like what, what in the end, like if they're gonna spend 70 grand a year, right? Going to this college, what's the job look like? Like you can't give somebody a loan for 70 grand a year times 4, right? And then the job they're gonna do, they're gonna make like 40 grand, 50 grand. Yeah. That doesn't make sense. So you can't do that. I mean, my daughter— one thing is in Florida you have— there is a lot of opportunity to get money for college through Bright Futures, through having good grades, doing volunteering. Um, if you go to a state school in Florida, if nobody in your family's gone to college before, sometimes there's scholarships for that. If you have lower income, there's money for that to get yourself—

Money, that's all over the United States.

Right, but I'm just saying, like, but you have to know how to work the system is my point. But, you know, like my daughter went to college. First she went for chemistry and then she said, no, I want to be a meteorologist. I was like, you want to be on TV? And she's like, yeah, I want to be on TV. And she did it. She went to school, she got on TV at school, she got on the radio at school. And now she's on TV and she became— after 8 years, she became the chief meteorologist. But she didn't go into massive amount of debt, you know, at school that, that, you know, I helped her a little bit. But I mean, even if she had to get loans, it wouldn't have been a massive amount of money.

Right.

But I think that some of the times these loans are predatory because if you change your major, then you got to get another loan. And it doesn't make sense to me. I think like, oh, if you got a loan to go to school, that's it. You got a loan to go to school. But I also think like there needs to be— it needs to make sense from the standpoint of, oh, you're going to get this degree and then here's what you're going to do. Like, I know one of my friend's kids— no, stop it— went to school. Went to school in Florida for music, but the whole deal was that she was going to be a music teacher after. And as long as you became a music teacher, basically the state of Florida pays off your— if you teach for X amount of years, they pay off your college loan.

Oh yeah.

So there's different— there's a lot of programs if you look into them to do that. In those cases, it makes sense. In other cases, it doesn't make sense. I think, you know, you got, and I think a lot of kids that see pressure from teachers and school and the administration and what they're hearing.

Well, I definitely, I wouldn't say pressure, but I've always, you know, I think that, you know, coming up the way I came up, the misconception was Oh, I can't afford to go to college. I might as well just get that out of my head. Right. So I've always taken the opposite approach of like, you know, just trying to— if you want to go to college, that's one thing, right?

Right.

If you're like my daughter Mariah, she's good at school. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, she just got into the National Honor Society for high school. Congratulations for that.

Right.

Um, but the, the pressure part of it, I get, you know what I mean? Like, I, cause you don't want to be like poking constantly, like you got to do this, you know? But I think it's important to pick a career that's going to provide the life that you want to live. And I, and I can't explain that enough. Like, You know, like it goes into what you're saying. Like, you know, these kids got a liberal arts degree, but they're not going to be able to afford a two-bedroom apartment in downtown Miami on that wage.

You know what I'm saying? But the thing is, see what's like when I was a chef, okay, there wasn't at the time when I was a chef, it was still, there was a lot of European guys working in the kitchens with me. Okay, at a lot of the hotels, especially the nicer places, a lot of Europeans. And when I would talk to them, they were cooking for like a long time. So I was like, wow, you cooking for like a long time? I didn't start cooking till I was like 18, 19 years old, right? And you know, they told me like the whole school system over like in Europe is completely different. So I met a lot of guys, they were from France, from Germany, Italy, Austria, all different countries. And over there it's much different. When you're like 13, 14 years old, they have you doing things so you can figure out like your career path. Like, oh, are you gonna be good at fixing cars? Are you gonna be good at cooking? Are you gonna be good at being a biologist? And they put you in the, you know, they give you tests.

I mean, they're doing that shit in Japan and China when they're in kindergarten.

And they don't— we don't focus on that in the US. We're focused on a bunch of weird stuff.

Standardized testing.

Yeah, but not just that. We're also focused on all these weird things, social blah, blah, blah, instead of focusing in on how are these people going to survive life, you know, life, you know, like, you know, how are these people going to earn a living? How are these children going to earn a living later? We have to give them life skills. And those life skills include things like, you know, you don't see—

Knowing how to wash your clothes. Yeah.

Do dishes. Home Ec. Yeah, Home Ec class. Like, I remember I had to take that. And in Home Ec, you had to learn how to make like simple foods, do it, start the dishwasher, load the dishwasher, run the wash, run the dryer, hang up the clothing. Like, you got to show the teacher, you know how to do that stuff. Typing, how to take a typing class. I had to take an economics class. You had to learn how to balance your checkbook and you had to learn about money.

And I feel like I'm the last generation that had to go through that. Yeah.

And like, my kids didn't get any of that. I remember I sat them down one day and I was like, no, you guys got to understand how money works. I sat them down. I go, here's your— here's amount of money. And I gave them like a spreadsheet Sort of. I wrote on there rent, gas, food, everything.

Oh yeah.

So they could kind of understand like what I was talking about.

My kids look at me, they look like a deer in the headlights when I'm trying to explain that shit.

And I'm like, this is important stuff. This is important things to know. You have to know, like, oh, I'm going to have this money, you're going to have this money, and what are you going to do with it? You have to understand how that, you know, how it works. It's not— money doesn't grow on a tree. But, you know, I also remember in my high school we had shop class.

Yeah.

We had auto mechanic stuff where kids were fixing cars.

I mean, that's that good— I forget what the terminology they use, but—

Vocational.

No, that's not what I'm talking about. But like—

Well-rounded.

No, I'm not. Relax.

Okay.

It's just like, you know, They're, it's called tracking.

Right.

So like what you're saying, like, you know, oh, okay, these kids, they're good at the arts and music. We're gonna put 'em over here. This, these guys are good with their hands and building. These guys are the super smart kids. We're gonna put 'em over here. They don't do that no more.

No, but what I'm saying is, is like we had elective classes. So you had to take these—

That's what I'm saying.

Like, you had to take these electives to kind of figure out if you would like any.

You had to take them to pass high school.

Right. Yeah. You had to take shop. You had to take the— you had to pick one of them and you had to take it. So I remember I had to go to like a shop class. They're showing you how to saw, use a screwdriver, how to fix a toilet. It was like basic.

Man, I loved our shop teacher in high school, man.

No, but I'm just saying, like, kids need to know how to do all this. Stuff and they don't learn a lot of these life skills.

Everybody's worried about weapons and someone being stabbed and their head being chopped off in the, you know, with the saw. You know what I'm saying?

That's a little crazy. No, I'm just saying that's what ours is.

We weren't thinking about that when we were in shop class.

Exactly.

That's all I know. Yeah, we were having a great— like, I remember building a bird Yeah, the have you built a birdhouse? Yeah, a boat. I had to build a boat, like, to really show that, like, you understand, like, geometry, because it's like there you learn a lot in that. It's not just, oh, I'm in shop class cutting some wood. No, man, like, you need to learn your mathematics, learn how to measure.

Yeah, it's not just all cutting wood and using a screwdriver. There's math involved and yeah, and all types of things.

So creativity.

Yeah, but I think now, like, I think this, you know, a light's being shined on college with this, you know, they want to give all this money back to people. I don't agree with that.

College should be free.

Well, I think that they need to figure— first, I think they need to figure out everywhere else in the world, right? I think they need to figure out, like, the education system is trash and is broken, and they need to, they need to, they need to figure it out and get it off the federal level. And put it back to the state levels because, you know—

Well, you gotta pay the teachers to make the people want to even go to work every day, right? So that's where my wife's been in education for 15 years.

Right.

And I'm gonna tell you firsthand, the reason why the teachers and the way that the education system is the way it is is because they can barely afford to live themselves. So on top of them dealing with, you know, just trying to raise the community's kids, right? Because you let your kids go for 8 hours a day with this person, right? That person is an extension of your family at that point. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And that's, that's the difference in, in, in America. Like, there's just no connection. It's like, oh, I'm dropping my kid off at this school, I expect them to take care of them, and they're supposed to teach him all of this shit, and I don't need to do anything but to make sure that he's got food clothing and shelter. It's very much on the opposite. And then, you know, the burnout that that gives the teachers, yo, like, I mean, I literally watch my wife cry herself to sleep some nights because of how a kid comes to school every day.

Right.

You know what I'm saying? Like, and it's, or, you know, I don't, you know what I mean? But whatever, you know, like, It's, the education system is broken. It needs some serious love.

It's not focused. There's not a focus on providing. It's broken, man. Providing education.

You can't make it any other, there's no other way to sugarcoat the shit, bro.

No, bro.

You're right. The public system, look at our youth, bro, comparison to all the other youth that are around the world, man.

Yeah, but they take away stuff like phys ed. The kids need to go outside and run.

Especially young men.

Yeah. They need to get outside. You can't have people sitting in a classroom all day.

Young men are not meant to be sitting down and stationary like— do you know? That's not how men learn.

Right.

It's just scientifically proven.

I know. I'm just saying, like, all these things and they just— they took all these things away. Some schools don't even have a music program anymore.

I mean, it's sad. 'Cause they can't afford the— my daughter went to New River and they were talking about closing the, shutting the music program down unless the parents started providing the instruments for the children.

I mean, it's just crazy. It's just wrong.

And that shit is expensive. But anyway, I think for like, as far as college and trade schools go, Um, it is definitely up to the person and like what you, you know, the experience of going to a 4-year university like is really cool. I didn't finish, you know what I mean? I went to university and that experience, you know, living on campus and you know what I mean, being around all the different types of people like that experience is, you know, you know, I'll remember that for, for my whole life. You know, I met some cool people around that time. I'm still in touch with a few. But I'm not a journalist, right?

Okay.

Like, that's what I was going to school for. And, you know, I ended up getting certifications. I think society looks down upon the people who, you know, every time we talk about this, I think of the movie Fight Club.

Right.

Because it's like those guys are the people that actually run the country, right? They run the, you know, the garbage man, the, you know, the city bus drivers, the school bus drivers, the, the electricians, the cooks at your, you know, children's school, electric, plumbing, air conditioning people, the building maintenance manager, you know, like all these people, you know, like, you know, Uh, I don't want to say like— Want a part 2? Let us know in the comments.