What Happens When Business Pros Try Mac and Cheese? | Biz To Biz Podcast

Welcome to the Biz to Biz Podcast, your number one source for all business news. Hey everybody, welcome to today's episode of B2B Vault, the Biz to Biz Podcast sponsored by NPS One and Clickbiller, our new smart invoicing product. And today we have a special guest, Miles Powell. And look, we're going to be doing something new. We've never done like a taste test on the podcast, but we're going to be trying Miles Comfort Foods macaroni and cheese today. Rocky's very excited. He smells food cooking in the office, although I think it might be a little too spicy for him. So Miles, introduce yourself to the audience.

Well, hello, Allen. Hello, audience. My name is Miles, CEO Miles Comfort Foods. You know, we're all about just great tasting food, real food. You know, our mission is to change how we think about frozen foods. An aisle that is typically full of preservatives and just things that don't really taste like food. We're keeping it simple. You know, our mac and cheese is clean label, all real ingredients, and it's naturally high in protein. So just a pleasure to be here, and I'm looking forward to this chat and then your reactions, of course.

Okay. No, so it's always interesting, you know, to hear, you know, like, I, I, I'll get on podcasts and talk about like my business journey, you know, and I read about your business journey and it's really interesting. So I know like you invented the hot sauce first and barbecue sauce, right?

Yeah, that was the first product line, uh, fresh out of college. I, I knew food was my true passion and my first product that I created was a raspberry barbecue sauce followed by pineapple buffalo sauce, which It's still a cult favorite, I will say, even, even in my own household. But, you know, we have since moved on to mac and cheese.

Okay. So, you know, everything, you know, like when you're, you know, everybody always, you know, talk, you know, starting a business, maintaining a business, growing a business is always, you know, it's like when you're the business person, it's like your passion, it's your thing. I'm doing this. You know, so tell us a little bit about like, how did that, you know, some, like, how did it all like come together for you?

So, yeah, so I, I'm an engineer by trade, believe it or not, civil engineer. And I graduated from college, you know, uh, diploma in hand, just super excited to be an adult, like go out, make some money, do all these great things. My second day on this new job and I just was like, this ain't going to happen. There's no way I'm doing this for the next 40, 50 years. And so I naturally gravitated towards the kitchen because growing up, you know, the dinner table was such a special place in the house. I mean, it was everything to the point where once I started this job, my place of solace was my kitchen. And when I started really getting into culinary and just cooking, For myself, of course, I realized that, hey, this is my outlet. And I knew at that point that to express that outlet of mine, I started doing a food blog and actually ended up on the Food Network on a competition series called America's Best Cook. And I came home from that show and went, yep, it's this, this, this is it.

Yeah, that— so were you on any other TV shows besides that?

Years later, did Shark Tank. Um, this actually happened a couple of years ago. Now we didn't get any airtime, unfortunately, but was able to actually pitch the Sharks in person, which was a really cool experience.

So tell, you know, I know like people always, you know, they come up with food products and then you're, you know, then you have to get on the shelf, right? And I'm sure that that's one of the toughest things to do because, and then if you don't make sales, obviously you don't stay on the shelf.

Yeah, and you can kind of break it down into part 1 and part 2. I always tell people getting on shelf is like getting to first base, right? It's kind of the beginning of the actual journey because, all right, you've broken through this long list of competitors that wanted shelf placement, but great, now the clock is ticking because now you got to sell through it or else you'll be right off the shelf again. And so that, that process of getting people to buy your product is like getting from first base to rounding the plate to get to home. And that's where your time and effort really comes in because now you're talking about, you know, go-to-market strategy, branding, marketing, sales, it's everything. And that's where a lot of us spend most of our time is how do I raise brand awareness to get people to actually buy my product?

Yeah, it's very, it's, it's interesting. So You know, you know, so tell us about like a big win. Like, what was like your big win with the— with macaroni and cheese?

Oh man, there's been a ton of wins. I mean, there's been a ton of losses too.

The first one.

Yeah, you know, the first— the first big win was getting into Whole Foods. That was, you know, because at that point we have been in a couple of smaller retailer chains, mostly regional. Whole Foods was the first national chain that was like We want you on shelf. Now, they didn't roll us out nationally, but they obviously, they're a national brand. And so that made us feel like, okay, now we're not just some random small-owned idea in, at the time, DC. Now we're getting notoriety by one of the biggest players in the space. So right then, that was like, it felt really good. You know, it felt like we had made it, quote unquote made it, even though we were kind of just getting started.

Right. And what, what else would you say, like, you know, as part of your journey that you learned about, you know, business? Like, you know, everybody— what people always talk about, oh, I want to start a business. So what, what did you learn about, you know, starting a business that's really— that, that, that's really important that people should know when they're start any kind of business, even if it's a food business or whatever you're going to do?

You know, the number one thing that I've learned, and I continue to relearn it, is it's audience over product. I think it's very easy early on to just focus solely on your thing you're creating and kind of do it in a bubble and just say, this is going to be great for this person or this audience. You kind of want to work the other way and say, and talk to the audience first and say, hey, what's going to work for you? What's missing in your life? What problems do you have? And build a product around that. 'Cause if there's not an alignment there, it's not gonna, it's either gonna not sell or be very expensive and hard to sell. The best products, the best companies that identify a pain point, whether that's in food and technology, and they say, I'm gonna build something to solve that pain point. And they're very specific about it. That's something we had to learn through a lot of sleepless nights of like, why isn't my product selling? Well, because you haven't identified who you're solving a problem for. So that was, that's got to be the most important thing that I've learned since starting this company.

Yeah, that's, you know, we talk about that in our business with technology and it's always got to be, you know, is it a win for the consumer and a win for the business owner? So, you know, if we have a product and the consumer says, oh, I want to pay with a payment link, I want to receive a link and make my payment. Well, businesses, if you're not paying attention to that's what people want, people will gravitate to somebody who's taking their— doing the payments the way they want to pay.

Exactly right.

So it's the same thing with any kind of product, like a food and things like that. People want, you know, people want what they want.

Yeah, I think you have to ask as a brand owner, kind of put yourself in the position of a consumer and ask yourself, so what? Let's say you do, you make this thing, then, and then ask yourself, well, so what, right? What is this going to do for somebody that's going to consume your product? Is it going to make them feel better? How does it fit into their life that benefits their life and not just the cool thing on the block?

So, you know, I looked at the map and like you're on the East Coast, the West Coast, everywhere, you know, Texas. So how does that— do you— have you ever thought— I know we talked about this when we were, you know, getting to know each other, or a few weeks ago, you know, as you know, have you ever thought about like, oh, how can I get this product so I could, I could ship it to people, or anything like that? Because now it's crazy how many food items I see that you're able to buy and get shipped to you?

So being that we're a frozen brand, the logistics behind shipping frozen get really tough. It's very expensive for the consumer and for the shipping, on the shipping front too, if you eat some of those costs. So for us, we figure, okay, we have to have a rabid fan base that's going to be willing to pay X amount for shipping. I'll give you a prime example. Uh, Jenny's Ice Cream, it's one of the, one of the many ice cream brands that people really love. It's not cheap to ship their ice cream to yours, to your house, and they can, and people can go to their grocery store and buy Jenny's Ice Cream. However, people have such a love for Jenny's and they want the flavor they want, they're willing to pay extra for shipping and get it in bulk. But that's because they have this rabid fan base. And until you have that, it's very hard to get someone to pay for shipping, especially, you know, obviously Amazon runs the world and free shipping is the new standard.

So, yeah, it's—

so how do you convince someone to say, hey, don't, don't worry about free shipping, right? Or you bake it into the price itself, right? So we're just— we're, we're direct to consumer is for us is a future iteration once we build the brand up to a higher level, right?

Yeah, it's, it's very interesting how we've seen consumer behavior change. Especially during the pandemic, that really we saw like a shift that was so hard, right, to especially in the direction of delivery, you know, getting stuff delivered. You know, it became very interesting. Yeah.

I mean, just, just think it wasn't that long ago when free shipping was like a perk. Now it's standard. So how do you— and that's not— you're not going to be able to change the consumer's mind easily on that, right? That And so that's what, like I said, you now build it into the cost where it looks like free shipping, but it's baked in. But now you're paying a lot more per unit. So that's just a balancing act.

So tell us, you know, we got two flavors. What are the all the flavors?

Yeah, so we got three in total. The Homestyle is that is the one with the little blue accent that you're that you're like your entry. Let's get to know you product, right? Traditional mac and cheese, got a little Gruyère in there. Once again, the all real ingredients, 24 grams of protein.

Get the first, bring the plain. Yeah, the homemade. That first one, not the spicy one. We'll get the spicy.

We'll save that. Yeah, yeah. And then, like you mentioned, the spice, that's our buffalo chicken. It's got real chicken in there, a little jalapeño. It's not spicy spicy. It's got a little kick to it, just enough. And then we do a third flavor, which is our Philly steak and cheese. Oh, so I'm from, I'm from Philly. Yeah, I, yeah, I was like, you know, because that box that we ship it in, it, it gets really tight and I don't want things to get smashed. I was like, let's start off with these two.

Okay.

But the Philly steak and cheese is our third one. That's got, uh, steak meat, peppers and onions, but provolone cheese. But yeah, those, those are the, the top two right there.

Oh, you should come over here. I'll move over a little bit. So this is Samantha. She's my graph—

Samantha, to meet you. Good to meet you.

We're gonna try it. We'll give our review. I'm just here to try the mac and cheese.

Listen, that's the best job. Just— I know, right?

Yeah.

Let's see. So you notice it's a mildly but classic flavor. Um, it's got the cheese you need, got some seasoning in there. It's going to taste different than like a— like your other frozen, which is like a Stouffer's, which is more of a gummy feel to it. The noodles should be fairly al dente, but yeah, this is really good.

I love it. Yeah, delicious. Rocky likes it. He's over here going, what is everybody eating? I don't think you can have mac and cheese, Rocky. Okay, now let's try the other one. Okay, I'm sure Samantha is going to be eating the rest of that for lunch today.

I don't blame you.

Yeah, Samantha is the one that does like all the graphics for our company. She actually created this Rocky up here. We were one time going to turn it into an NFT and give—

got about that craze.

But the NFT thing, like, it was funny. It started and then all of a sudden it just like went boom.

Like, whoever like sold millions of dollars, it was a select few that did really well, right? Um, yeah. A lot of people lost a lot of money, don't get me wrong, but a few, few folks did really well.

The people who bought and then sold them, like bought in and then sold them— like Gary Vee had an NFT for some restaurant that he never even opened, okay?

Yeah.

So the people who bought those and then resold them, those people cashed out big time.

I sure did. Rocky, you wanna—

oh, got a spoon. Okay, Rocky, no. No buffalo for you. That's too—

definitely not this one for Rocky. Yeah, no, that would end up poorly.

Yeah, he would not be feeling good. And I like spice.

I just— Dave, you, you'll find this to be pretty mild. I had this for, for lunch yesterday. Rocky, come here.

Come here. You got to get out of the way. No, this is really good.

That one, that one seems to be my favorite one. My boyfriend will love this because he loves mac and cheese and spicy food. Like, so easy. It's so good.

I wish they had it in our stores soon. Florida?

Yeah, we're working on Florida for sure. Okay, because right now we're, we're in, uh, the Panhandle. Thank you.

Oh yeah, it's very delicious. Really good.

Thank you, thank you.

No, I like the pack. Like, when you're going out, you know, and you're deciding, like, okay, packaging— like, how, how long did it take you to decide on packaging?

We've gone through a couple of iterations, right? Because there's a, there's a, there's a, a balancing act when it comes to packaging, because as you know, the shelves are really crowded, right? As a consumer, you're all— you're, you're always overwhelmed with how many things that your brain's receiving. So as a brand, you think to yourself, well, how can I stand out on the shelf but not be so obscure that it confuses the consumer? So that's the balancing act. And our first iteration of packaging, it didn't stand out enough. So we said, let's reinvent this a little bit. And then you've got FDA restrictions too. Like there's certain things you have to do and have to place on the pack. So like I said, it, it becomes a challenge, but then over time you start to recognize what the, what the consumer consumer is attracted to the most, right? And typically it's pictures of the food, it's, it's various callouts, right? So it's, it's, it changes often. Even the big brands, they always are changing too.

Oh yeah, I noticed. Like, when you first started out, did you go to the grocery store and like hand out little cups of macaroni and cheese to get people to buy it?

Still do it to this day. You know, the power is in how it tastes, so we still do demos to this day.

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's interesting. Like, I don't see it too often, and like, when I go to Publix or Whole Foods, you don't really see too often. Costco, on the other hand, you can go in there and have lunch.

Yeah, people— I mean, that's people's end game. People are like, we're gonna go eat lunch at Costco today. We're gonna get a bunch of samples, and then we're gonna buy a hot dog, and that's our lunch.

No, I don't eat— I don't get the hot dog. But no, but they're passing out, constantly passing out samples, and Yep. In Costco, it's unbelievable of everything— coffee, this, that. It's, you know, and I see crazy— and I see lots of different, you know, sometimes I see the same brands, you know, they'll introduce a new product and boom, they're handing it out to get people to buy it.

Yeah, those— they call them road shows. And with Costco, for a new brand, that's your bread and butter, right? When you want Costco, it's like sometimes they'll use that to evaluate bringing you in to more stores. They'll say if you sell a certain amount during these road shows, that gives us the green light to bring you in full time, right?

Yeah, it's very, it's very interesting. So what other, what other things like, um, like you're over here, the hidden side of CPG. So what's that about?

Oh man, so I mean, as a consumer, right, you, you just don't know what happens before it hits your shelf, right? I'll give you a prime example. You know, with, with the way inflation is, people, and rightfully so, when prices go up, they go, these brands are raising prices. It's a lot more complicated than that. So let's say I've got a product, mac and cheese, for instance, and noodles are a big component. Let's say the price of noodles doubles. I, as a brand, can say Okay, I'm going to eat that, right? I'm just going to pay more and just not pass it along to anybody, which is going to impact a lot of different things about the business. And if you're a small business, that can cripple you because your margins are pretty tight already. The distributor is not going to increase. Well, let me backtrack. You can pass it along to the distribution partner. Now, the retailer, they're going to jack up the price on the shelf, right? Which is bad for the consumer because normally the retailer is not going to eat it because they are also working on tight margins. This is an industry where every part of the supply chain has a pretty tight margin. And as a small business, you're the small man in the totem pole, which means you're more than likely going to have to eat at least part of that. So it's not, at least on the small side, it's not that the, the business is being greedy. It's that this, the supply chain itself is just squeeze. It's just putting a squeeze on the entire model. And so it's like whoever's initiating that and whoever's making the price of noodles goes up, which is typically name it, right? Environmental, political, whatever the case might be. The consumer doesn't think that way, right? Because they're just looking at what the price on the shelf. Um, so that's a big piece of it, right? Now, when I mentioned hidden side of CPG, it's, it's, it's why you see small brands getting on the shelf and exiting, because it is a fight to the death, right? We're battling billion-dollar brands who can do a lot of things easier than we can. It's why we don't get prime placement all the time. It's, it's just, it's a, it's a fight. And most consumers don't know how much of a fight it really is.

Yeah, I think, you know, you have to, you know, when I'm buying, you know, like when I'm shopping, you know, in general and I'm buying something, I definitely looking at quality, you know, over, you know, the price because I'm not that price sensitive. Other people might be more price, price sensitive. You know, type of shopper. So you have to, right, you know, you know, who's the audience for, for doing that? Do you do like any large packaging, like a family style, family size?

That's in our roadmap. You know, launching a new product is— takes a lot of time. It takes 6 to 9 months, right? Sometimes up to a year. So, but we've got some prototypes of that that we're sitting on until we're ready.

Okay. Yeah, because it's a You know, it's a super— I always watch, you know, when I'm in the grocery store, I'll look around and see like, oh, what are they? You know, what do they have? You know, what new products do they have? Or if I saw something on Shark Tank or even on TikTok, you'll see people with food products. I go, where are these things? Are these things around or they're not around, you know?

Yeah. You know, and that reminded me there's another thing that people don't necessarily think about. It's really hard for a brand is understanding consumer psychology because a lot of us are subconscious shoppers, meaning we buy things on autopilot, right? Especially legacy brands. Like take Bounty, for instance. You'd ask me why I buy Bounty paper towels. I don't know, I just do. There's certain foods that I buy that I'm sure there's a better version that exists. I'm just trained to buy this brand for this reason. And depending on my mood, depending on the day, depending on how hot it is outside, I'm gonna switch what I'm buying. So as a, as a brand owner, I've gotta dig through all of that and say, how am I convincing a shopper to purchase me when they don't even fully understand why they buy what they buy? And that has gotta be the most difficult part of, of owning a CPG brand.

One, one of the things that, like, that I, that I notice is, you know, where I grew— I'm older than you, so I'm 65, okay? So I grew up with TV, okay? Now today, most kids or younger people don't even watch TV the way I watch TV, okay? They watch TV like, oh, I can see that show, it's on Hulu, or this thing or that thing, or whatever. And sometimes I watch TV on those, you know, those other channels, right? Paramount, Hulu, this and that, you know. And it's not— the commercials are not the same commercials, you know what I mean? You're not getting the same, the same kind of commercials. And then where else do they get their information from? It's all from social media. So what do you like? Do you guys have— are you guys out there all over social media?

Yeah, so we're on all the, all the popular platforms. The difficult piece, like you mentioned, is that it's not just us out there, right? It's a million other brands, right? And to your point, growing— I grew up in the TV era as well. I would see what you watch a TV show, you'd see, I don't know, in a 30-minute segment, what, 16 ads, maybe 20 ads, right? At least, right? Over a 30-minute period, right? Now with the advent of TikTok and Instagram, you're seeing hundreds, not thousands of ads in the same period. So the consumer's brain is now shifting through a lot more information, which means their attention span is lower, which means if I put an ad on TikTok, I've got 0.5 seconds to grab your attention. And if I don't, you're swiping or you're being distracted, right? So the, the notion of, of being on social is very important, but it's very difficult these days as well.

Oh yeah, it's definitely, you know, social media is a challenge. Like Even in my business, we're a payment processor. There's huge payment processors out there, right? And, you know, they could spend more money in one day than I can spend in a whole year, okay, on ads. So we have to be very careful, very targeted, very, you know, precision. You got to really watch what you're doing because, you know, going marketing, you can go down a rabbit hole. So deep, you know. You can't— like, you know, Stouffer's frozen macaroni and cheese, they have more money than we'll ever have. Yeah, they have an endless supply of money, right?

Yep.

So, you know, that's how that goes.

So it's hard, man, huh? Yeah, it's hard.

And—

but the best brands that do it, they find a way to be entertaining. They're like, we're going to do this thing that we know Stouffer's isn't going to do, which sometimes is very aggressive. I don't know if you remember, but a few years ago, I forget which brands did it. They were doing like they were back and forth on Twitter when Twitter was Twitter. Right. And they were swinging pretty hard against one of their competitors. But it, it, it causes like viral moment of all these funny comments and things like that. And that's how that brand started to blow up. So you start to think of how can I present myself as bigger than my actual company so that I can kind of gain this attention, right?

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, um, you know, that's one of the most challenging things today. Another like big challenging thing that I talk to business owners about— I see all these things, you know, oh, about your website and SEO, and then everybody talking about AI and how can you get listed on ChatGPT. I, I don't believe like Anybody can get listed on ChatGPT unless you're like, I know Perplexity, like you, they're working with some large brands. And if you type something in where you're doing shopping, you're going to get results from them. And some of them are their sponsored results. I just did a podcast that we released. That's about AI and agentic commerce and how people, when you go to Google, you're searching for a specific website. If I'm going to go shopping, I'm looking for— I'm gonna go maybe on Google, but then I can go ask an AI agent, and it's kind of crazy. So I've made a short video of I asked Google about some headphones, and then I went on ChatGPT and asked them about headphones, and instead of me having to go click on a dozen websites It just gave me all the answers, showed pictures, told, said what you said, showed the sales, all kinds of stuff. It's, it's really interesting how we're seeing this shift in the internet, the shift in marketing, all these different things in our lives.

Yeah, you know, it's just, it's a sensation of it. I'm, I, I can't imagine the next 20 years is going to be because we are just shrinking this time between question and answer, right? Where the notion— and it's kind of like you're eliminating the need for patience anymore, right? Where you're expecting instantaneous gratification or answers right now. While it's great, it makes it so hard. Like your attention span is shrinking. So once again, as a brand, it's like, how can I just— how can I convince someone in so little time that I, I'm a need in their life. That just— it gives you something to think about.

Yeah, it's, it's definitely an interesting thing. I mean, the macaroni and cheese was excellent. We liked it. It was really cool. I look forward to putting out the podcast and yes, making some reels. Maybe I'll make another reel eating some more macaroni and cheese before Samantha eats it all.

I might have to eat my own mac and cheese. I'm hungry now.

Yeah, the office smells great today.

I bet.

So any final words? So if people want to find you, milescomfortfoods.com, you can go on there, you can hit the locations, you can read about his story, you can see what stores it's in. And he's also on LinkedIn, so you can connect with him over there. Maybe you say, hey, I want to get some of this in my store. You know, and, uh, let us—

yeah, let us know. We'll make a phone call.

All right, any last words before we go today?

Yeah, my last words are, you know, we— I feel like every— we say this like once a year or every 5 years, man, we live in pretty chaotic times right now. You know, think of what things you can do to take a break from chaos and just enjoy the moment. And for, for me, it's, it's food. Right. I yesterday warmed up a bowl of buffalo chicken mac and cheese because I needed a moment. Right. And I ate it. And I— for that 5, 10 minutes, I— things kind of felt better. Right. Things slowed down. I was me and the mac. I encourage everyone out there to find that moment for themselves, too.

All right. Find your moment. Have some Miles mac and cheese and some mac. Chill out. Yeah. Get with the mac. I like it. Gordon— I think Gordon Ramsay would like it. He would approve.

I think so too.

All right, everybody, thank you for listening today. Uh, B2B Vault and our special guest Miles Powell, I appreciate you coming on, on the show. And I'm going to be keeping tabs and watching out and find— hopefully I see this in my local store soon down here in South Florida. And, um, Check it all out. Carpe diem, seize the day. Peace out, everybody. Have a great day. And again, thank you to Miles for joining us on B2B Vault and telling his story and his journey about getting this onto the store. And, uh, if anybody wants to learn more, you can reach out to Miles. Find B2B Vault on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, anywhere you listen to podcasts, and YouTube. Everybody have a Great day. Peace out.