EP: 2. Founding an Integrative Care Practice with Dr. Amanda Swan, DNP, APRN, IFMCP

All right. And don't forget that we can around and edit and. Yeah, whoever's listening, sorry, this is not my regular editing team. This is editing team. So I'm sorry. Amanda Swan. I'm so excited to have you here.

Thanks. I'm happy to be here.

Amazing. So could you just tell, first of all, Arla, NPS or aspiring mps, where is your practice right now?

Yeah, I am in Glastonbury, Connecticut. Glastonbury is east of Hartford, so right in the middle of the state.

Amazing. And so you own your own practice. But before we get to the practice part, what in the world made you decide to become a nurse practitioner?

Yeah, good question. I wish more people asked me this question, actually, because I think the answer to this for all nurse practitioners is really important, and I think people need to hear these answers. Um, when I was in college, I knew I wanted to be on some sort of a healthcare track, and I thought about being pre med, and I quickly got to know the pre med kids in my class, and some of them were my best friends, but I just didn't feel like they were my people in some way.

Interesting.

I feel like their intentions for going into healthcare were a little different than mine. They just seemed like a little more competitive than I was. There was just something about it that I was like, I don't know. I don't know if this is, you know, if this is going to be my. My tribe. I don't know that this is it. So there's that. And the other piece of it is I've never been much. I'm a rule follower, but I like to think outside the box. And I've never been one to do what everybody else does. And I almost felt like for someone that was, you know, pretty smart and on a track to do something important, like everybody goes to med school or law school. Like, it seems like the easy decision to make, and that was kind of unappealing to me. And I thought, maybe there's something cooler. There's another way to do this. Then I had some really great experiences with nurse practitioners within the health center at my college. I went to Bates College in Lewiston, Maine, and I was like, man, this lady's awesome. And she's listening to me and she's teaching me, and this is something I really want to explore. And so you knew right away that.

You want to be an np, not just an rn. Not just an rn, but you want.

Yeah.

Level.

Yeah. I actually thought I wanted to be a nurse midwife.

Interesting. Okay.

Really interested in childbirth. And. And women's health care. But then I realized that I didn't actually want to deliver babies.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Process.

But, like, I learned that quick during that rotation. I was like, oh, God, I don't want to do this. For those of you who do it, God bless you. Thank you for doing it. I just can't.

Absolutely, absolutely. Like, sleepless nights. Not my jam. So the nurse practitioner program that I did had a women's health nurse practitioner certification that was coupled with an adult nurse practitioner certification. So I could still, like, you know, do the women's health stuff, but not on the.

So you knew pretty early on you want to be a nurse practitioner. For some people, they discover it after they do nursing for a while. So you knew pretty. But then there's a different level of crazy, which is the level of crazy. It says, you know what? I am done with the safety of working for someone else. I am going to completely and utterly, potentially blow up my entire life and open up my own practice. And I'm saying this with so much love as a. As a. As a practice owner myself. So what was your aha moment? You're like, okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna go crazy.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's when I realized that I had all these ideas of ways that I would. That I would practice or wanted to practice, but I wasn't in charge. You know, I wasn't working for myself. So I could put these ideas out there, but they weren't necessarily going to go anywhere. And I felt a little stifled and realized, give an example of, like, the.

Type of thing you want to do but you couldn't do well.

I was in a practice, a conventional women's health practice, where I wanted to start recommending more supplements to people and educating them about that and getting some, you know, inventory in the office so that we could offer them to folks. And, you know, it was an idea that was. That the. The practice owner was open to. But I knew that I was never going to be able to really run with that or, you know, create a cool nutrition program to put people on. I needed to have my own gig in order to really make those ideas fly. And, you know, it was important for.

You to have a little bit of that holistic, integrative piece.

Absolutely.

Clearly does not drive in most practices because it takes.

Right.

Takes some time. So you were like, okay, how many years were you an NP before you decided, hey, I'm doing this crazy thing?

10.

10. Okay, 10. Good. So then 10 years, and then who would you turn around, say, to, like, your partner, your. Who'd you turn around and say, listen, I had this crazy idea.

Would you say, yeah, it was my mom, actually.

Okay.

Yep, Yep. Because.

And mom was like, I met your mom. Mom was like, okay, baby, let's do it.

Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong at all. She's medical. She's a medical biller and was seeing me work.

She's not likable. For those of you who. Obviously, many of you don't know Amanda, who are listening, but Amanda's mom is a force to be reckoned with. So there is no question that Amanda's mom was like, okay, baby, we're doing this. And by the way, Swan is the. Really their last name.

Swan. So cool. It is indeed. Yeah. She.

You told mom, and mom was like, let's go.

Yeah. She was like, we can help you. You know, you're gonna have to pay me, but we can do your billing, and we can help you get credentialed and you can do this.

Look at Mom. She's like, you're gonna have to pay me. See, that's what I'm saying. Mom. Is mom. Okay? Love her.

Yeah. So that was really what I needed to hear, because all those things, the billing, the credentialing, the business piece, we don't learn that in NP school. And you can learn that along the way, especially in a big health system where all that is happening behind the scenes, sort of like the wizard of Oz. So to have somebody that I trusted say, let me guide you through these pieces, was really instrumental in me taking the lead, because otherwise, I don't. I think I would have stayed. Stayed put.

Yeah. So you decide to do this. Did you have to, like, secure funding? Did you. Or do you just, like. Did you keep your other job at first? What was. What. What was it like in the beginning?

Yeah. I was fortunate in that the practice that I worked at was flexible. The practice owner was an entrepreneur herself. It was her practice. I think she was very. She. She just supported me. And I slowly but surely pulled away one day a week from my schedule there and started my own practice. I. I had to do that, too, because I was a single mom at the time.

Yes.

My son was 4. And it was, you know, my income alone that was supporting me and him and paying my mortgage and paying for my car and all the things. So although I was ready to take a leap, I couldn't take a leap. That was too risky and have us on the street. So I'm grateful That the scenario I was in was one in which I could slowly take one step away and one step forward.

And that I think that's really important learning for anyone listening, because I think that's something a lot of starting entrepreneurs grapple with. Okay, how do I do it? I still need to pay my bills. And I think almost everyone shares a variation of that theme. So I'm glad you're bringing it to life, because it's important for other people to know. Most people keep some form of their day job while they transition. And they do a day, and then it becomes two days and they let it go. And then one day like, oh, wow, I could do this. So that kind of slow and steady as you let go, one foot in one door and one foot in the other, seems to be very much a pattern because nurse practitioners tend to come to this profession later in life. They usually are in different stages of family, already in commitments. And, you know, I think it's a common. A common theme. So I'm glad that you shared that because I think it normalizes that for anyone who's like, well, how do I do this? So when you first started, what was the thing that keep you up at night? And then I'm going to ask you, what keeps you up at night now? And maybe it's not the same. Maybe it is the same, but when you started, what was the thing that you're like, what? I can't. What.

There's always been something that's kept me up at night, and that certainly has evolved over time. I think the financial piece has always been the common thread there. You know, how do I make more? How do I support bringing on some staff? How am I going to balance seeing all these patients to bring in revenue, but also find a way to run this business if it's not just me? That's a big challenge. And that's one that no matter how hard you, like, think about it in your brain, you really come up with the answer. You just kind of have to do it, do it, take some risks. Yeah.

No, you said two. Two things that actually three really important things I want to surface. One, if you're going to open up a business, you're not going to sleep at night, not because you're working, because you're just worried. So it's kind of like having a baby. You're not going to sleep for a while. I still wake up till this day, so many years later, just about different things. Two, is this idea that, you know, a lot of us, like, think about what you said, you said I wanted to go into this because I wanted to provide patient care a certain way. And I. Almost every NP universally that opens up our practice says that and it's true. But what they don't know is that they're going to be so busy running the business and being able to manage that lofty ideal of this is how I want to take care of my patients. And the most, you know, whatever theoretical approach you have and the reality of like, well, is the air conditioning working? Does the ramp to the office building? Is that, do I need to, like, is, is this, can a wheelchair get through this door? You know, what software do we use today? Have I paid my taxes? And that is an awakening that no one can prepare you for. So anyone who's struggling with that, just know that that's normal. We're here to normalize all the crazy something we do it. So you started off saying, I want to do I want to give a little bit more holistic care to my patients. So what, what, what does your practice look like now? What makes your practice different than a typical primary care practice?

Yeah, so we are an integrative health practice. I have some extra training in integrative and functional medicine and so do my colleagues that work for me. And you know, my initial intention was we're going to spend so much more time with everybody. And that's, I think, what we all want to do.

We all want to do it.

But when you're in the insurance model, which we are, you quickly find out that that only works to a certain extent if you want to, you know, if you don't want to pay yourself or pay yourself only a little bit, that might work. But in order to have a really, you know, well oiled machine with good margins, you have to either be creative or, you know, be a little bit flexible with the time that you're spending with people. So I do think we still spend more time with people than the average primary care office. But that has evolved over the years. I used to spend a half an hour with every follow up and now that I know my patients better and, and you know, thanks to conversations I've had with you and other colleagues, I've recognized that, you know, I can still give really good quality care and really connect with my patients and be really comprehensive and holistic in 20 minutes, it just might shaving a little fat off the visit. You know, we do a little quick chitchat to catch up about each other's, you know, personal life and then jump into the nitty gritty. And I've actually found a lot of satisfaction having a little bit more faster pace to my. It feels really, I feel really accomplished when I've had a really busy day. We're still. What's that?

It's solution oriented. I think sometimes we conflate more time with, with more clinical, you know, decision making skills. But that's not necessarily the case, especially as you get to know your patients. You can be a really astute clinician. You know, obviously it's case by sometimes it is really. Sometimes that patient really needs more of your time. But I do agree. And then the reality is what it is. And to your point, if you're going to be insurance based, which I think just about everyone else listening is that. And some people might say, oh well, then I just won't be insurance based. But that brings its own host of problems that is like, you know, marketing and how do you convince people to pay out of pocket? So that's not necessarily the solution. Being creative in an insurance model, it also allows accessibility. It allows people, regardless of their demographic and their economic ability to be able to access great care. And I think, I think that says something. Finding a way to provide great care for people through insurance is a generosity. I really do think so. So kudos to you for figuring that out.

Yeah, that's sort of been a mission of mine. You know, coming my early days as a nurse practitioner, I worked in community health centers taking care of people who had HIV and aids. And it was really ingrained in me that health care is a right and not a privilege. And although the integrative care model, you know, tends to be a little bit more fluffy in terms of time spent and resources, if we want to spread the good word about integrative health and being more holistic and more comprehensive and paying attention to lifestyle, then it needs to be accessible. To your point, we need to make sure that everybody has a place to go where they can really be heard and really learn about the foundations of health.

Absolutely. And as I travel the country through duet, meeting MPs, as I met you as well, I'm seeing that NPs, we are at the forefront. We are where no one else is doing the things that no one else wants to do, taking care of the patients and no one else is taking care of. So, you know, thank you for, for that. Now, at this point, how many MPs work for you?

There's four of us.

Amazing.

Two of us are full time and then two are pretty part time, mostly remote. They're People that I brought on early in my practice when I needed some help. But they both were pretty firmly established in other practices they haven't wanted to step away from. But they have a nice panel that's been following them for many years and we're, we're almost ready to hire another, you know, full time practitioner. Yeah.

So the time it took from first. Hey, mom, we're doing this. To now contemplating a fifth np. How much time passed?

It's been nine years.

Nine years. Nine years. Nine years is not a long time for that kind of growth.

Yeah. You know, like it. I think we all think we're just going to open the door and we're going to be profitable and crushing it in, you know, a year. And I think going back to what used to keep me up at night, I was really frustrated the first couple years because things weren't just like falling together. You know, it wasn't just this like, I jumped out of bed.

What do you mean? Everyone's not coming?

Yeah, yeah. So it's taken a long time to realize that business growth takes time and it's a journey and you have to let it play out and learn along the way. And you know, this is a long game.

This is the long game. So how initially, how did you attract patients? How do people find out about you?

It's all been word of mouth.

We take time.

Yes, it does, it does. And it was a really nice organic growth. But when we got to the point where we needed to really step, step on the gas there and try to attract more patients, that's when we turned to social media. And that's been really helpful in getting the word out about what we do, letting people kind of get to know us through our different social channels. And that's been a nice driver for new patients in the past year or two.

And do you run your social media? No. Okay, someone else runs it for you.

Yeah, I tried. And then this is, you know, the other thing that we learn in business. Right. Like we can't do it all. We're not good at it all. I'm very much an introvert and would not be on social media at all if it was up to me. But we found a wonderful content creator who loves what she does and is brilliant at it. And we just put this all in her hands and she makes it happen 100%.

I love that you said that. I also don't run my own social media and I have robust social media, but you have to know what you're good at. And my social Media people cannot diagnose, and I cannot do their part. But recognizing, I think a lot of NPS make the mistake that because they, like you said, I'm an introvert, because they are not comfortable, they feel, therefore it is not necessary. And that's not true. It may not be your jam, it may not be your skill set, but recognizing that that is the reality of this is the commercials of the day. And hiring someone to do that for you is really strong. I'm glad you did that. And anyone else listening, please reconsider your stance on social media now. Don't do it yourself. It's too time consuming. This is the conversation of working at the top of your license. The top of your license is seeing patients not posting. So have someone do that. And I agree with you, it is so helpful and it gives flavor. One of the things we do, we also do patient spotlights, and our patients love being featured. And then every so often, I'm just putting this out there. And then every so often, if it's a great picture, we actually put that picture on the walls of our office. So our office has our patient spotlights from Instagram. And it's just I just recently had a patient that he was a little munchkin back in the day, and now so many years later, we repeated the pose and it's side by side and it's just.

Love it.

It's so good. So social media can be really, really impactful.

Yeah.

So other than finances, what other challenges do you feel like you face when you're starting a practice or, you know, in the beginning days, then how did you overcome them?

Yeah, well, I think in any business, you get to the point where you can't do it all yourself and you have to hire somebody to help. And it's. Especially when it's patient care, you know, bringing on another clinician. How do you make a carbon copy of yourself? Because you want everybody that walks through your door to get the same type of care that you give. And, you know, you can't. You. You can't multiply yourself. You have to trust somebody else and trust that, you know, they may do things a little bit differently, but they're still going to, you know, get your brand, understand your vibe, and maybe do things better on. On some level.

Yes.

So finding the right.

Isn't that a hard one? Like, because you said carbon copy and actually you don't want to carbon copy. And I don't know if you've experienced this. Tell me if you experienced this. But like, now I also have several MPs who work for me. I was just yesterday in the office, it wasn't my day, but I was like, hey, she's a little backed up. Let me just hop on this virtual. So. And they were like, nope, we'd rather wait for her. And I was like, oh, okay. It's just my office. That's fine. And, you know, I was actually so happy, all joking aside, that this patient loves this clinician so much much that she would rather wait in the virtual waiting room than come in. And that's success, even though it's, you know, differently. But was that hard for you at first?

Yeah, absolutely. I was used to knowing everybody, and now people come in and I don't. I don't recognize them, and they're not there to see me.

And they don't know you, and they're like, no, we don't want to come on Amanda's day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it's amazing to see other clinicians succeed and develop their own reputation and their own following. That's really gratifying. And when you hire good people, that happens naturally.

I love that. So I know what makes your practice super unique in your area is the fact that it's integrative. Is there anything else that makes your practice unique?

I like to think that we are also innovative, right? Not only in the care that we give. I think integrative health is innovative by nature. But one of the things I love about having my own practice is how creative I can be. I'm a creative person in general. You know, I spent a lot of room in the art room, a lot of time in the art room in high school, and always thought I would do something creative. And I realized not too long ago that what I do every day, although it's scientific, you know, it's. It's very creative. I'm solving problems for people. I'm helping them to find their own solutions. And I'm having to think creatively about the business every second. You know, how do we stay in the insurance model, but maybe have some cash services that support the bottom line? How do I, you know, do things in such a way that we can be more efficient and see some more patients without feeling like we're killing ourselves at the end of the day? So I think that innovation, that's what keeps me excited about running the business. And I think it's what keeps our practice special, too, because there's always something new coming out.

Always something new coming out. You always have to kind of be on top of it. What about your community. We talk about the practice. We talk about your experience. What about the community? Do you feel like your practice is impacting the community in any way?

I hope so. I do think so. I know just based on who's coming to see us and how word gets out. And when patients fill out the new patient survey, which we have on our website, we ask how they found out about us. And it's almost always through somebody else or through, you know, a colleague or another local business. So I think that the community around us does know who we are and knows what we do. And I'd like to think that we are really making a ripple effect there and helping all these people to live a healthier life.

You clearly are, because they all keep coming. We're good. I'm gonna go into the section called Words of Wisdom, where we now help the people listening to us see what they're thinking. So what's the best piece of advice you've ever received about running your own practice? We can edit the pauses, so take your.

Okay. Okay. I think the best piece of advice I've gotten is to get comfortable with the uncomfortable praise.

I say that all the time. If. If you're looking for it to end. So you could be like, if I just do this one thing, it'll be better. No, it's not, sis. No, it's not. Because the next thing's coming. It's right there.

Yeah. And I was waiting for that for a long time. I kept thinking, okay, this will be the year. I'll get everything all lined up, and I'll be able to breathe, and everything will be clockwork, and I'll be good. And every time that didn't happen, I got really frustrated, and I thought I said something wrong. And finally I realized, like, listen, girlfriend, this is how it's going to be forever. And this is actually the sign that things are going well. You know, you always have to be pivoting and thinking outside the box and changing things. And once, you know, you kind of breathe during the quiet moments and things are going well and get ready for something else to change, it doesn't mean that things are exploding and going wrong. It's just that something's going to shift and you have to adjust. And if you are open to that and know that it's part of the process, it really takes a lot of anxiety and stress out of the picture.

It's so true. And it's kind of a litmus test, because when I teach in class and I kind of tell people what it's like, to own your practice. And I'm like, if what I'm telling you makes you nervous, then it's probably not for you before I'm telling you, actually gets you excited. But if you're looking for calm, like, if you're like, I want to start my own business, I could have more days off. No, don't do that. And also, like, yesterday I came home and I happened to have a really, really good day. So I was like, oh, my God, what a good day. This happened. This happened. And as soon as I start saying it, not that I took away from it, because I still celebrated, but I immediately took a moment and said, sister, this too shall pass. So don't get like a celebrate, but don't get too excited because just like the good days, like, you have bad days, but, like, it goes up and down, you can't celebrate too much and you can't get too down. You have to be like, okay, let's just ride this roller coaster in both directions. Yeah, so funny. Okay. What are some common misconceptions about owning an MP practice that you, you know, think we should put out there?

I think a lot of people still think that NPs are just, you know, the middle of the road kind of providers. I really get angry when people call us mid levels. One of my least favorite things, they think that we're not qualified enough to have our own practices or to give good care. And that really grinds my gears. And, you know, I think most of the patients that come to see me and come to see you and your colleagues know that we are the cream of the crop and we know what we're doing and we're very qualified and we give excellent care. But there's still people that just assume that we need to have a doctor overseeing everything that we do or that we need to be consulting with the doctor every time we make a clinical decision. And I think, unfortunately, there's still a lot of work that we need to do as a profession to really prove how qualified we are.

Yeah. Um, you know, that's all right for them, right? Isn't it for the people who need that? God bless. One of the best pieces of advice I got very early on was from an MD who was very, very pro mp. And he's like, there's enough patience. There's enough patience for everybody.

Yeah, that's so true.

They don't like you, they'll like me. If they don't like me, they'll like you. And like, just getting to that. So it's fine. I'm not for you. It's fine. I remember when somebody came in million years ago, like, screaming because there was no doctor. I'm like, I don't know which part of NP being written everywhere on the website, the sign in the door led you to think that there was any MD anywhere. But, you know, reading comprehension is an issue. But, yeah, I get it. It's still a misconception. But you know what? It's is their loss. Not.

Yeah, you're right, there's somebody for everybody. And yeah, there's plenty of patients to go around. And yeah, those are not the things we should be spending too much time worrying about.

Yeah, exactly. All right, what's. What would be a piece of advice you give an NP who's thinking about starting her own practice or his practice, just generally her. I'm sorry.

It's okay. I would say do it, do it, do it. Don't wait. Don't wait till everything's perfect, because it's never going to be perfect.

Never, ever, ever.

Start small. Start with low overhead. You know, you can do with just a little exam room and a laptop and a stethoscope.

Great advice.

Just start and let the pieces fall into place at the same time as you're starting. You know, be doing the work, the research to really know how to do it right. And early on, you know, get people on board who can help you with financial projections, really knowing how many patients you need to see to support yourself and anyone that you bring on, you know, there needs to be some planning. And there's amazing organizations, you know, like Duet and others that can help with that type of projection. And, you know, you don't want to dig yourself into a hole and then not be able to do what you set out to do in the first place.

Absolutely. You know, you brought up Duet. Well, I'm going to come back to Duet in a second because I have a question there. But in that advice is something I say all the time. And I just want to. I want to surface it for anyone listening. Start small. Like, it doesn't have to be your ideal office. It doesn't have to be the one with the four exam rooms that you can't afford right now. Sheesh. My first office was a hot mess. You just start somewhere. You could always expand. So I think some people think that it has to look a certain way right off the bat, and it really doesn't. Your first house, I imagine, is not where you are right now. Maybe it is. God bless. But, you know, it doesn't have to be. So tell me about. When did you. This is not on the list of questions, but I'm so curious and I'm probably gonna ask everybody on this podcast, so. Sorry, but when did you meet someone? Who did you meet from Duet first? And what made you decide to, like, start working with them?

It was you.

Oh, yeah, it was me. Yeah.

Hi. You had reached out sort of cold call email. And I remember seeing your email and not being sure if it was, like, spammy or not. And, you know, in the midst of a billion other emails, I think I was like. And then you emailed again, you know, weeks to months later, because that's what you do. And this time it just resonated. You said a couple things that helped me to realize that you were a real person and that we had some common connections. And that kind of hooked me and led me to the website and got me thinking, you know, let me just feel this out. Maybe this is really what I need. And, boy, am I glad that I did. I can't tell you how beneficial all the support I've gotten from Duet has been and how it's changed the practice and my outlook and our bottom line and. Yeah, I'm just.

I love that. You know, it's interesting because you said, like, your practice is growing from word of mouth, and I think that's how Duet is. I don't want to spend too much time on this, but I just want to say, like, I got a phone call from Wendy Wright and she was like, hey, you should check this out. And I was like, of course. If Wendy Wright calls, of course I'm going to. I'm going to listen. But this really has become a network of, like, friend reaching out to friend and. And word of mouth. And like, your practice has such good standing because, you know, people check you out. If there's no integrity, they're not coming back when they see how, you know, the integrity behind it. So. Thanks. I didn't realize I was a person that makes me really happy. My person that makes me happy. Okay, looking ahead, what's, like, what's. I'm just going to say five year plan, but it doesn't have to be fair. What are the future goals for your practice?

Growth, for sure. You know, another practitioner, maybe two. I'd like to step back a little bit from clinical care so that I can be doing sort of more of what. What my personal, bigger mission is, which is to improve and enhance integrative health education in the world. Right?

Yeah.

Nursing school. Nursing schools. In the community, globally. And, you know, I have some other projects and other gigs where I'm working on those things. And I think, you know, when I think about my personal mission, the practice is a piece of it, and then there's another piece that they all sort of feed into one another and. And one feeds the other. So to have a practice that's really running so well that I can step back a little bit, have the right people in place and continue to work on. On sort of my mission, in addition to keeping my hands in. In the care.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's what I do right now. Also, I'm in my practice once a week. I don't think I would ever want to do less because I just love. First of all, I still love it and I love kind of knowing what's happening every once in a while. I have to miss my day and never feel quite the same. But it allows you to help others in different capacities.

Right, right.

Whether it's. You mentioned something about education or something, but there's so much that the world needs and. And it's not like you're. You're still providing patient care through other delegates, as it were, and being able to do more. I love that. The reach. To continue the reach.

Yeah.

Um, okay, so now we're going to do a little Amanda centric questions like, okay, facts about you. So what is a fun or surprising fact about you that most patients and maybe even your colleagues don't know?

Well, I was a hockey player. Ice hockey.

What?

And you probably wouldn't know it looking at me. I'm not the biggest person. I tend to, like, wear high heels and I love getting a little dressy. But I played ice hockey in college and really learned how to, you know, throw elbows without the ref seeing me.

I could see it now. That's where you get the toughness from. This is. Oh, it's all lining up for me right now.

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Is that still a current hobby of yours?

No. Although I'm a hockey mom now. My son, who's about to be 13, is a hockey player. He's a goalie. So I kind of am living vicariously through him and.

Are you giving advice? Yeah, yeah, of course. What are you talking about? Of course. That you do now.

I'm a knitter.

No way.

Yeah. I love. I love knitting. If I. Yeah, if I could do it again, and if this wasn't my path, I'd probably own a little yarn shop.

No way. I was going to ask you if you were an np what would you be doing? So that would be it?

Yeah, I think so. I think that would be it. I also think in another life, I might have been a surgeon. It's that, like, fine motorcycle. I think it goes along with the knitting I love, you know, just using my hands to. To fix things. And so sometimes I wonder, you know, okay, if I had gone the MD route, maybe I would be in an or somewhere stitching people up.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. So, wow. So, like, do. Are you the person that gets people, like, knitted sweaters for Christmas?

More like hats and wraps and scarves. Knit sweaters take a long time.

Yeah. And then you. Sizes and.

Yeah, the construction is really complicated. I like, you know, to be able to bang things out and gift them. And I like chunky yarn. It's really something.

I'm putting in an order.

Please, you just let me know what you want. Tell me your colors.

Black yarn.

Black.

Okay.

Done. Done.

Like samurai color. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. Amanda, is there anything else that maybe I didn't ask or that you want to tell our audience of NPS and would be nps?

Yeah, there is, actually. I think one of the. One of my biggest takeaways from this whole journey so far is the importance of personal development and personal growth. I have been stretched and pushed in so many ways because I've taken this path. I've had to face a lot of my own issues and barriers and traumas, and I've had to do a lot of hard work to, you know, become who I am now. And I know that there's still a lot of work to do.

But you.

I think anyone that decides to own their own practice has to be ready to do the work personally, because it's hard. You know, hiring. Managing other people is really hard. Dealing with difficult patients is hard. And when you are the top and you don't have someone that you can say, hey, this patient's being really whatever. You know, it all falls on your shoulders, and it really brings all those lessons that the universe wants to teach you. The universe really, really uses your practice to teach you those lessons. And if you can take advantage of that and do the work, it's, like, really transformative. And I feel like I'm becoming the person that I'm meant to be. I've had to face so many of my own barriers.

So what you're saying is, like, at least this is what I'm hearing, maybe because it so resonates with me, is, like, you. You kind of open the practice for the other, for. For the patient. I want to give patient this, but the process and what you learn and owning your own practice forges you into. If you roll with it and you kind of take the punches and figure it all out and work and roll up your sleeve and do your thing, you. It forges you into the human that you feel like you are meant to be.

That was beautifully put. Yes.

Oh, my God. That's amazing. I like that. I really like that a lot because I could. I could see that myself, like, from everything you have to learn, managing people and things that you didn't think of because you come in clinically, then you discover this whole other aspect of it.

Yeah.

Brings out the. It can bring out the best in you.

Yeah.

Oh, my God. I love that so much. Amanda Swan, thank you so much for being on this podcast. I always enjoy talking to you, too.

We should do off the camera.

Yes. We should do this more often. And another trip to Connecticut is warranted.

Good.

Check out Amanda's website. Check out how awesome she is. Check out her reviews, Check out her socials. You know, we learn from each other. And. Yeah, thank you for being here.

You're welcome. I love connecting with other nps and helping other nps that want to do what we do. So. Yeah, hit me up.

Thank you. Thank you, Amanda.

You're welcome.

All right, this is a quick intro. Here we go. Unsung is a podcast sponsored by Duet, a network dedicated to celebrating the NP heroes who are brave enough to open their own practice. On today's episode of Unsung, we meet Amanda Swan, who owns Swan Integrative Medicine in Connecticut. Like many of you listening, she opened up her practice to do things differently, and she shares her story. And then the outro. Thanks for tuning in to Unsung. Let me do that again. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Unsung, the podcast where we celebrate nurse practitioners. For more information on how to join Duet, just go to join duet.com. see you next week. Is it next week? See you the next episode. See you on the next episode.