Embracing Adversity and Choosing Yourself

I was not pursuing what I knew I was meant to do in the world as a storyteller. I had been hosting a podcast for Microsoft and fallen in love with this medium. And I knew that was the new way I was going to tell stories. It was that wake up call, and then also the wake up call of, okay, not only do you need to leave your job and pursue this purpose, you need to leave this person and this relationship that's not only not serving you, it's harming you, but all of that put me on this path. And so you hate to say that you're grateful for a health crisis, or you're grateful for cancer, or you're grateful for an abusive marriage, but it really put me on the path towards myself. And I've had people say, you know, you should have left the marriage sooner. You should never have married that person. I don't agree with that. I think you stay in things as long as you need to to learn the lesson. That lesson is now cemented. And, you know, it's obviously wasn't terrible all the time, but I will say he gave me the gift of myself, which is truly the greatest gift anyone could give me.

Hey there. Have you ever experienced a moment in your life where you thought, I think this might be a sign? Whether it is something you're feeling, whether it is something in your health, whether it's something you read or something you hear someone say, this is the essence of right on time. And our incredible guest today, Nicole Christine has a story for you. Body was screaming at her and desiring to point her down a different path. And Nicole is a writer, podcaster, entrepreneur, an incredible storyteller, the founder and CEO of Tula Productions, a storytelling studio that connects leading brands and notable people with their audience through human centered audio, visual and print speakers stories. And she's the creator and host of the Here for Me podcast. That means here for me as in you are here for yourself. I am here for me. I'm gonna take care of me. And she dives into that and stories of people who are on a journey taking care of themselves. On her podcast about the power of choosing yourself. She's been a storyteller since she could string words together and it's her passion to bring tales of courage, impact and utter badassery to life. And in this episode, there is likely a nugget that is going to feel a little bit like, oh, that message, that quote, that experience, that's what I needed to hear right now. That was an affirmation that I am on the right track that I need to take, take the next step. You are going to go on a journey with us today in this conversation with Nicole. And I can't wait to hear what is unlocked for you after you listen. Definitely feel free to leave us a review wherever you are listening as well as feel free to connect with both myself@amber McHugh on Instagram and Nicole on her Instagram and her podcast as well. It's going to be a beautiful conversation and I am so glad you are here for it. Nicole, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Amber. It is such an honor to be here.

It is such a gift. I am so grateful for this time we're going to have together. That we are all going to have together. And I got to say, as I was prepping to. For our conversation, I went and got a sweater and I got my. I have a little bit of coffee left for the day. It's a little late for me to be drinking coffee, but I'm gonna do it. And I was like. I felt like I needed to feel cozy and comforted because just in preparing for our conversation, I started to feel a little emotional. This has happened a lot when people are around you and connecting with you.

Yeah, I mean, I, I think, you know, we'll get into the story, but it has definitely, you know, I've had especially friends, but certainly, you know, when I've talked with other people on podcasts, you know, people start to cry when I share parts of my story. People tell me I need a break for a few minutes because I'm nauseous. So, yeah, it's. It's definitely intense. So I. Yeah. And I, I've. It's earlier for me because I'm in San Diego. You're. You're on the Ivory coast, but we've got our coffee together, so cheers.

Yeah. Take a step. Take a step. Good call.

Yes. We gotta, we gotta. We gotta have it. We have to drink after you toast or it's bad luck or something. There we go.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Well, before we start diving into the heart of the conversation, will you tell us a little bit about yourself and your story and. And what you do in the world?

Sure. Yes. So I have been a writer my whole life, and then my, My career has been as a writer, primarily, like my day job. I've had two corporate chapters, both at Microsoft, a couple of other smaller ones in between there, but then. And then also two entrepreneurial chapters. So as a writer, as a communicator, that's Been the, the bulk of my career and day job, not that I'm identifying with my career. And then also as a writer, kind of like on the side essayist, comedy sketch writing, features journalist. Like just kind of anything that involved words, I pretty much did. I did a playwriting program at the Seattle Rep when I was living in Seattle. So kind all over the place. I'm a words person and a communicator. So that's, that's, you know, the bulk of who I am. And then I now have a podcast called Here for Me. I started podcasting in my second lifetime at Microsoft, which was 2017 to 2021. Then I went out on my own to produce here for me and also my production company, Tula Productions. I produce podcasts for others as well, organizations, branded podcasts and also, you know, notable individuals as we say. So. And I'm a storyteller. That's, that's really, you know, the, the, the gift that I was given that I feel compelled to put out into the world. And on Here for Me, which is a podcast about the power of choosing yourself. We talk about how the best self care comes from the inside. So as much as we all love our facials and massages and pedicures, which we all love, I really learned through some very hard experiences that it's about self respect, self compassion, self awareness, self integrity, and really what it means to show up for yourself in the world. That also aligns to my purpose now. So that's kind of my, my little quick and quick and dirty intro about me as a storyteller and what I'm doing. We can dive into more specifics as, as you would like. But that's kind of the, that's kind of the overview of who I am.

Oh man, I am already getting tears in my eyes. Essence of your work and your journey and your story and how you are living on purpose with your gifts. Because not all of us can see and appreciate our gifts and then step into them and live in alignment with them.

Yeah, yeah, that is definitely. It's a, it's a journey that I share on the podcast. Some of the episodes I tell my own story and then I have people come on the show who have been through life altering experiences who learned how they weren't choosing themselves, they weren't aligned with their purpose and how those experiences led them to that. Which is always inspiring to hear.

It so is, and already, I mean, I know not everybody can see this. We do have a recording over on the YouTube for people that are watching, listening if you are listening to this episode, I already have tears in my.

Amber's tearing up. She's literally, like taking her glasses off and wiping her eyes.

It's because I'm sad my mic isn't working. That's what it is. Oh, my. Guys, I. You know, it's interesting. I'm going to share this. And one of the reasons this is hitting so powerful for me just as you talk, is I have been on a journey of self care. I mean, lifetime, right? Like deep healing, as so many people are. But this last year, I got really good at it. Like, I took some pauses in creating and marketing, like I usually do. Like, I slow things down from a professional perspective just a little bit. Yeah, okay. Maybe a lot. I don't know if I reflect back on that. I have to. I have to reflect more to give it the appropriate scale. But this summer, I had a really beautiful summer of presence and laughter and alignment and just listening and learning and flowing with it and taking things in. And I came back and I said to someone who's been on the podcast before and someone I work with, Amanda Lynn, she's a kinesiologist. I said, I can't go back. I see a new, new opportunities for my business emerge in the space between and for how I want to live my life. But I won't go there if it means sacrificing my self care and the routines I put in place in this last year. And that was big for me.

That's a revelatory moment. And to know that you can't go back from that. I'm sure you feel that in your body. I mean, I can relate to that too, where it's like, no, it's not possible for me to return to this other way. And did you find that, you know, in sort of feeding, you know, kind of filling your own cup, essentially, that you are better? Because a lot of people think that when you go and do that, you're going to be like, you know, everything's going to fall apart. You're going to lose the momentum and it's. But did you find that it actually made your business stronger?

We're gonna find out.

Yeah, I believe it. I believe it does. I'm just gonna put that out there. I'm gonna plant that seed of intent.

Yeah, I think the answer is yes, I believe that. But, like, we will have evidence right. In coming months. Because I took such a pause and put so much space in there that I don't know, like, we had foundations in place that I could Slow down. But I'm seeing a different way of working and living and we haven't fully brought it to life yet. And honestly I don't what will be because there's that season of evaluation and I'd be so curious as your, your survival story. How did you discover what came up for you that helped you discover and see. Okay, I am out of alignment here. What was that for you?

Yeah, it was really. I had two health crises back to back. So my life from 2019 to 2022 went 180 degrees. So in June of 2019, my now ex husband and I had been long distance for seven and a half years from Montreal to Seattle. He was in Montreal in Seattle and we'd been trying to get back to the States and for what he does for a living, he had a very lucrative job in Montreal. It was hard to get back here, but he ended up getting a job in San Diego. So we were moving here together to be under the same roof in the same city for the first time in our entire relationship because we got married during that time and a week before, about, well eight days before we were supposed to move, I got hand, foot and mouth disease, which probably parents know about. Nobody knows how I got it. I don't have kids, I hadn't been around kids and I was so worn out and exhausted and burned out from. I was working at Microsoft at the time, which I've always loved working there and I had a wonderful job. But it's stressful, you know, and many industries are, but big, big tech is pretty stressful. So there was a lot going on in my job. I was in a nine month memoir writing program. I was at the end of that and finishing my manuscript and getting ready for graduation reading and then we were coordinating this move from one country to another, from one city to another. It was just a lot happening at once and I, my immune system attacked itself. The doctors believe what was an autoimmune, a stress induced autoimmune response led to a secondary condition called erythema multiform, which I had never heard of. But essentially all those blisters from hand, foot and mouth disease turned into these big target shaped lesions that were all over my body inside my mouth. I lost like eight pounds in a week because I couldn't eat. I was in tremendous pain and it started to eat through multiple layers of my skin and into my connective tissue. So I couldn't really use my hands, I couldn't walk. I was turned away from the ER twice and the third time I Went. The doctor was like, we're admitting you. Because I was dehydrated, I needed nutrients, I needed painkillers. I sat in the ER for eight hours and then was admitted to the hospital where I ended up staying for a week. And I couldn't move. You know, they literally released me from the hospital the day before. I was finally well enough. I needed to be able to take my meds by mouth. That was the biggest thing. And they're like, okay, you're ready to go. And it's like, I have to move tomorrow. So my now ex husband and my parents had come up to help, you know, get everything out of my place. And I had to go to my parents house in Oregon and rehabilitate for a couple of weeks before it was safe enough because all of these sores started to open. So it was, you know, I couldn't be, I couldn't move. I couldn't be in the middle of all of that. And my husband at the time, you know, wasn't in a place to really care for me. So that was very eye opening. As that healed, I lost multiple layers of skin. All my toenails turned black and popped off. And I realized, huh, you know, like, I had two really good friends who are both healers who said, I would encourage you to think about if there is a metaphor for what's happening to your body. You're literally purging and your skin is your ultimate boundary. Does it mean anything? And I realized I am not setting good boundaries at all. I put everyone else's, literally everyone else's needs are met before mine, and maybe mine don't get met at all. So that was kind of this wake up call essentially. And I got through that. It took ultimately nine months to fully heal before I looked normal, before I could walk normally again. It took two full years for my toenails to come back normally. But, you know, it was like a nine month journey. And I kind of just was like, okay, I'm better now. I need to set better boundaries. And just continued on without really letting that integrate. And then in March of 2020, we all know what happened in March of 2020. The pandemic, the shutdown, the lockdown, all over the country, all over the world. And I discovered a lesion in my eye in the, in the lower left eyelid in the inside corner. And I was like, what is that? It was like a skin tag. And no one could see me because of the pandemic. No doctors were seeing anyone unless it was life threatening. You were having you had Covid. No one could see me. So that grew rapidly. And finally, In July of 2020, I was diagnosed with. Ultimately, was I diagnosed with ocular cancer, which there had been a 20% chance it would be cancer and a 5% chance it would be the kind of cancer that I got. So that led me on a. I had to go to an ocular oncologist. There are only 300 in the world and none in San Diego, where I live. So I was being treated up at USC in LA and had, over the course of September 2020 to April of 2021, had three surgeries and six months of immunotherapy, which is kind of. I call it chemo light, because it's not as intense as chemo. It's not an infusion. It was interferon directly into my eye, which is also super fun. But I felt like there were plenty of people going through much worse than I did. So that, you know, again, a metaphor that really, truly opened my eyes to the fact that I was being mistreated in multiple relationships in my life, including my marriage, which I had seen shades of what ultimately I realized was emotional and verbal abuse. I went to a therapist who informed me of that when I would tell her verbatim what was happening in my life. And, yeah, In February of 2021, at my last treatment, the night before, I realized, this cannot continue. I don't know when I will be. Well, I'm still in this, you know, I had one more cancer treatment the next day. I don't know when I'll be physically well enough to figure this out, to figure out, you know, this marriage and. And when I'll be mentally strong enough. Ended up finding out the next day. They were suspicious my cancer was back. I had a biopsy a month later. They confirmed it. And then at the end of April, I had this radical surgery that we'd been trying to avoid, where they removed half of my lower lid. And. And interestingly, the cancer had also wrapped around my tear duct, which I thought was really interesting. So half of my lower lid was removed. So my eye is actually open now. Right. And your tear duct being a major form of how we express emotion and particularly grief and sadness. Right. And. And sometimes joy and all of that is, you know, being moved. But I thought it was an interesting metaphorical, metaphysical representation of what was happening in my life. And at the same time, April 2021, I had two surgeries within three weeks of each other, and my last two. And then I started seeing a therapist. I'd started meeting with therapists about narcissistic abuse, which is what I suspected was going on, and spent 10 months working with that therapist to get strong emotionally, to build an emotional toolbox. She said, whether you want to leave or not is not my job to tell you. I give you the tools to either get your needs met within the relationship if you don't want to leave, or aren't able to le some people aren't able for financial reasons or children or whatever, or if you leave, I give you the tools to help you leave safely and be strong. And ultimately I did decide to do that, but it was a whole year and a half of building that emotional strength, building the physical strength. Like, I actually went and got my body really strong. And Then September of 2022 informed my husband that I was leaving, that the marriage was over. So between June of 2019 and September of 2022, and in that time, by the way, in 2021, I also left Microsoft, started a business again and started my podcast. So literally everything was 180 degrees. But that those two health experiences just made me realize how I was abandoning myself. I was not pursuing what I knew I was meant to do in the world as a storyteller. I had been hosting a podcast for Microsoft and fallen in love with this medium. And I knew that that was the new way I was going to tell stories, whereas I'd always been a writer, an essayist, whatever. So it was that wake up call, and then also the wake up call of, okay, not only do you need to leave your job and pursue this purpose, you need to leave this person and this relationship that's not only not serving you, it's harming you. It really kind of dissociated from the person that I was, which was horrifying to realize in retrospect, but all of that put me on this path. And so you hate to say that you're grateful for a health crisis, or you're grateful for cancer, or you're grateful for an abusive marriage, but, you know, it really put me on the path towards myself. And. And I've had people say, you know, you should have left the marriage sooner. You should never have married that person. I don't agree with that. I think you stay in things as long as you need to to learn the lesson. That lesson is now cemented. And, you know, it's obviously wasn't terrible all the time, but I will say he gave me the gift of myself, which is truly the greatest gift anyone could give me.

Oh, my goodness. Nicole. Oh, I mean, come on, everything that was being thrown at you and the.

And the pandemic, all of this was happening during the pandemic. And we were in a new city and we didn't have a support network. You know, we. My husband had colleagues who were lovely, but it was not safe for anyone to come, you know, take me to LA for my appointments or something. Like, we. We were isolated and isolated in what was a very toxic dynamic while I was working full time in a crazy job and battling cancer. And it was tough.

That. I believe it. And I can't even say I can relate. I understand. I believe it. That is a lot to go through all at once. And as you were navigating it, what was going through your mind? Were you thinking, like. Because as I'm here, I'm thinking, what? Wtf? Like, slow down life. Like, enough, I call uncle. Which, you know, there are those moments, but. Or are you like, okay, no, right. Because right now it's all, like, comes together and you've got the metaphor. Okay. I could see.

Yeah.

Could you see when you were in it with.

What happened with my skin? I did understand. Like, oh, I think, you know, there's something about boundaries. I think my friends that suggested that. I was like, you're right about that. I was much calmer and not really seeing the lesson of that at all. I was just like, I know that I. People were like, you don't deserve this. I was like, I know I don't deserve this. I just have to get through it. I was like, we just got to get to the other side of this. When I found out that I had. And I wasn't even angry, I was just like, well, shit happens, you know, to people. Like, it's. Good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people. I. Whatever, you know, it's just. This happened to me and it's something I have to get through. So I didn't really think anything of it. When the eye cancer happened, which ultimately was like 13 months later, from June 20, 2019 to July of 2020, I was pissed off. I screamed, I asked for a second opinion. I was like, nope, you're going to send it to another pathologist. This is not true. I mean, I was. There's no way. Like, I just went through a very rare. That thing that happened to me with my skin. They told me something like 200 people in the world had experienced what happened to me. That's why they didn't know what it was and kept sending me home going, you have hand Foot and mouth disease. Just go home and, you know, take these. Take like a steroid or something. So I was like, there's no way another rare thing is happening. What do you mean, a 5% chance? So I was furious. I was in denial. I went through, really, those stages of grief. And then, you know, I kind of went through a bargaining phase in August of 2020. Took a month to get into my ocular oncologist. And during that time, I lost £10 in a month. I don't. I just. From stress and probably not eating enough. All I was doing was reading about my condition and informing myself, and it was like a bargaining, like, if I just know enough about this. So it was a very different reaction, you know, to the eye cancer. And then ultimately I settled into. Okay, second opinion came back. Yeah, you do have this. And I realized, oh, I was in denial. And I just settled into it. I definitely would say I felt my way through that pretty consciously, because the other thing I could write off as a fluke, this was like, your body's really talking to you. What do you think? Yeah, is going on? So I definitely was super, super thoughtful through the eye cancer piece of it. And then, as I mentioned at the end of that journey was when I realized you're in an abusive marriage. Oh, my God. And there's so much shame that goes along with that of realizing, looking back and seeing you really do. You know, you hear about trauma bonding. You know, you really do trauma bond and dissociate from yourself. And I look back at that woman, and I think, I would never do the things that I was doing. I would never have, you know, put up with that. But in that, you know, I. I was in complete denial that that's what it was. And so you just behave as if you're in a healthy relationship, even though you're not. And then you kind of pan back and see how damaging that was.

You mentioned that the therapist that you were working with and the toolbox that you filled up as you were navigating this change, what were the approaches, the ideology, the tools?

Yeah, the modalities she used. Yeah, yeah. So she is trained in narcissistic abuse and went through a narcissistic, abusive relationship herself, which is what led her to this work. She uses something called schema therapy, which was really fascinating. So there are 18 schemas that the test for. It is long, very lengthy, and intensive. But she identified some of the schemas that I have. You know, one is, you know, abandoning yourself, subjugating your needs Subjugation. So, you know, I think there were, I don't know, something like seven or something that I. And they're formed in childhood, and they're. They're formed when, you know, needs are not being met. And how do you replicate those things in your relationships throughout your life? Not just romantic relationships, but friendships, work. And that's why I noticed that this was a pattern through many relationships. This was my first romantic relationship, interestingly enough, that I felt like that was really being activated. So is diving into those schemas and understanding where did those patterns come from and how do I show up differently? As my therapist said, you just want the schema to get out of the driver's seat. It's not that you necessarily get over it or it goes away. You just go back seat, you know, back there. Thank you for pointing that out. I don't. I don't need that anymore, but I appreciate you pointing it out. Right. So that was one really important piece of it. And the other modality she used was somatic experiencing. And that was really useful for me because somatic experiencing teaches you how to go within your body and listen to what your body is telling you when you're having an emotion or a thought. And obviously, it was very obvious I was at the end of this cancer journey. I mean, I started seeing her in April of 2021, and I had my final surgery a couple of weeks later. So she's like, your body clearly talks to you and you're not listening to it, so how do we tune in? And she was kind of triggering that by identifying old memories and then saying, how's that showing up in your body where you feel it? And at the time, I had a sound booth. My ex is a musician, so we had a sound booth and a recording studio in our house at the time. And I would do my therapy in the sound booth so I could have privacy, which was a gift during the pandemic. And she would say, nobody's in your sound booth. As you're feeling these things, I want you to go through whatever scream, hit the sides of this. It was like a padded cell, basically. Like, just lose your mind as you're feeling things. And I would feel, like, buzzing in my lips. I would feel numbness in my hands. I would feel tightness in my chest. And she'd say, what are you feeling? Where do you feel it? It's like, that's how your body's going to talk to you when a need is not being met. And just teaching me to tune into that that mindfulness now has been such a gift in so many ways. So between those two things, and then also there are certain techniques, and they're useful probably in lots of relationships, but when you're in a narcissistic. Narcissistically abusive relationship. Not sure to say that, but things like what therapists call gray rocking or disengagement, which is where you just go uninteresting. I'm not going to react because they feed off of whatever emotional reaction you have, even if it's negative. I'm going to start a fight with you. And then they feed off of that energy. You're drained. Or you take on their stuff, and then they're fine, I unloaded it on you. You're crazy. Now you're the crazy person. So it's just, don't engage, don't engage. That's very hard for probably anyone. For me, as someone who is a communicator and a writer at heart, and that's been my profession for over 20 years, it's like my nature to want to talk about something. And couples therapists teach you that, right? Communicate. Communicate. You. Actually, I had to learn. I can't communicate. That actually doesn't help with this person. I have to go completely like and, like, barely engage. Walk out of the room, not answer the email, not answer the text, hang up the phone. That was probably one of the most helpful techniques she taught me. And. And it starts working immediately. I realized, oh, I've always been engaging in this thinking, oh, I'm just not saying it in a way that you understand. Let's try again. Let me say this one more time. And so learning that was a big part of my emotional toolbox, was learning how to shut things down. And then, you know, the other thing that they teach you, and this is how it unfolded when we separated, I pretty much had to go. No contact. So anything that was related to filing for divorce or our final tax return, yes, we can talk about that. But I had to just put up a wall. And that is all done now. There's just a wall up. And that's hard for me because I'm not, you know, I'm a person that likes to let go with compassion and grace and gratitude for what I had with someone. And, you know, have had exes who are friends. And I was like, I can't do that with this person. It's actually kind of, you know, it's dangerous for my mental health to do that. And that was really difficult. But an absolute gift.

Something she taught me Your perspectives and the way that you look back on this and reflect on it and the way that you've processed it are really beautiful. Does this come naturally to you to see, like, the gift in really, really hard things, or is that something that came over time?

I think it's a natural. I'm naturally, probably as a writer, a very reflective and introspective person. And I'm also not afraid to shine the light on all my dark parts. So I go through that. Certainly, I think the key to this, honestly, the way that I get to this point, it's not immediate. I have learned through other less traumatic experiences, but trying times in life to feel my way through every moment. And I. A phrase that I've said before is, you know, you can't see the silver lining until you acknowledge the cloud. So you have to look at the cloud and go, this is a big shitty mess. And I hate everything and I hate everyone. Which is, you know, what I experienced with the cancer. I didn't feel that, like I said, with the skin. But when I went through the cancer, I was like, I am so pissed. This is not fair. Fuck all of this. Like, just. I was screaming in my house. My now ex husband was gone one day and I just screamed and sobbed and cried like my neighbor. I live in a high rise in downtown San Diego. I'm like, I'm surprised no one called because they thought I was being murdered. But I allow myself to feel that and not be ashamed of it. Another technique I use, which I learned from Nicole Sachs, she has a great podcast called the cure for Chronic Pain is called Journal Speak. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. So you essentially, whether you're writing it down in a notebook or I do it on my laptop, opening a document and you just barf horrible things for 20 minutes. I hate you. I hate this. Like, you just, you know, she talks about when she did it for the first time. She wrote, I hate being a mother. She has three children. Our culture teaches you, don't say that your children are a gift. Ignore that. That's how you feel in that moment. I hate being a mother, right? So I did a lot of that through the last few years of just sitting down and daily, like just barfing out stuff on a page. And then. And when I would do it, I look off into the distance. So I don't even look at what I'm writing because the whole point of it is when you're done, you close it without saving it. You don't read it. It's not something that's intended. It's just intended to clear the cobwebs. So whether I'm talking to someone, whether it's a friend or a therapist or I'm journal speaking, or I'm talking to myself in my house, just screaming and raging, I let myself feel that through every thing that I go through that is challenging. And then I'm able to get to the. Okay, now do you see the silver lining? Now can you have the gratitude? So the perspective comes with time and definitely using those tools.

Yeah, we. I speak a lot about the power of reflection and like that there's a process that you can go through to reflect and process and translate it and. And use all of the energy. Oh, man, that's really beautiful examples. And through all of this, all of the health, all of the relationship, all of the personal discoveries, you've got career and job and business and how. Okay, so how did you navigate all of this personal with all of the professional elements too?

Yeah, I kind of did it in phases. So, you know, I went through the thing with my skin. 2019. I took some time off from Microsoft. I was very blessed to be at a company, by the way, that had generous benefits and time off that I could take time off to heal. So I took a few months off and then, you know, continued to work there through the cancer. So start all this starts June 2019. I'm declared cancer free. June of 2021. So still working at Microsoft, super supportive leadership. And then, you know, at the end of that cancer treatment in 2021, that's when I realized, oh, God, this marriage is in a serious state of disrepair and I don't think I can stay. But the first thing I wanted to do was the summer of 2021. I hadn't had a proper summer. 2019 was ruined with healing from my skin. We had just moved to San Diego. Couldn't even go out in the sun all summer. 2020 was all about the eye stuff. So I was like, I just need a proper summer to rest and relax. And I use that summer to think about what do you need to do now to serve yourself? What's next? And it's like, you know, you need to leave this marriage. Although I'll say I still had hope and there was still like, you know, recommitting to each other and talking about what was happening and trying to make it work. But in my gut, I knew this is not going to last. It's just a matter of time. Right? But the first thing I wanted to do was I knew it was time to leave Microsoft, and that felt very nourishing. So I thought about it over the summer of 2021. What does this look like? What am I? I knew what I was going to do. I knew I was going to go out, start here. For me, I was going to start doing, you know, producing podcasts for others and doing storytelling in new and different ways. So I knew I'd start that business. But it was three months of just enjoying the summer and letting that marinate in my body. That's kind of how I think about it. And then October of 2021, I told my manager, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna start my own business. Super supportive. Picked up two clients at Microsoft within a week. So I felt, like, beautiful. You know, I feel like this is very affirming. But I also told everyone I'm taking three months off to just recalibrate and take care of myself and enjoy the holidays, kind of get my business set up. And everybody was like, great, we'll see you in January of 2022. So I did it kind of in phases, just paying attention to what feels warmer, thinking about leaving the marriage in 2021, even knowing at a gut level, I was like, I feel like I'm collapsing just thinking about that. I was like, I don't have. I don't have the strength yet for it. So we focused on that. Felt great to, like, leave Microsoft on good terms, start this business, start this podcast. And then January 2022, excuse me. I'd been working with my therapist for 10 months, and I told her, I feel like it's time to take a pause. I don't think I'm done. Nobody's ever done. I've been in and out of therapy for 23 years, but I feel like it's time to take a pause and integrate everything. And she was like, great. I support it. And I sat with that for. Until August, from January to August, whatever that is, like, eight months started here for me. It was when I started producing Here for Me in April of 2022 that I realized all the messages of Here for Me started to really become part of my DNA, if you will. And I was like, it's time to go. You cannot have a podcast about this and not live it. Not that it's because you need to check a box and be concurrent with what you're preaching, but because I actually, as I was writing the first two episodes, which I tell this story on the first two episodes of the show, everything was sinking in. And I was like, I respect myself too much to be in this. I really believe this. This is. I'm embodying this message, and I can't stay. And at that point, I was ready for whatever was ahead. I was like, yep, I'm strong enough to say no more. You know, there had been five really, like, what I call coming to Jesus meetings over the years with him, and I was like this, no, you don't get another chance. This is not. Honestly not serving either of us. So I. To answer your question, I handled it in phases. You know, first thing was the job feels like it needs to be fixed, and I'm. That feels nurturing and nourishing, and I'm ready to go. And then the next thing was, when am I going to feel like I am ready to leave the marriage? I didn't know when that was going to be. I just knew one day I just knew. And then it was like, okay, now it's a matter of what day I'm. And how am I going to do it and what's my plan? So, yeah, just tackling it in little chunks.

Little chunks.

I love.

You know, so often I. And in conversation with other people and just in society, I feel like there's a pressure to do the thing. Like, what? You got the question. Why didn't you do this sooner? Yes or no? You know, it's not like, you know, something's not right, but there's an unfolding that happens. And this is why we talk about the idea of right on time. Like, yeah, yes. Let it unfold. And you knew and you listened and you. You knew when it was time. Like, you know, when the moment appeared to change jobs, to change first, to start the podcast to. As well as in your personal life.

Oh, totally. Right on time. I mean, it is. That's exactly it. And I sometimes say you have to be ready to not be ready because people are like, you're never ready to whatever, you know, leave a job, get married, have a baby. But, you know, right on time is like, yeah, this is time. I'm. It doesn't mean you're not scared. I had a friend recently say you have fears. What? I thought you were fearless. And I was like, no, dude, it's courage. Like, you. You have fear and you do it anyway because you. Because you know that you need to go in that direction. You need to go towards that. Yeah, that was exactly what it was. I. And I definitely did have friends. I didn't talk, you know, super broadly with people about what was going on in the marriage, other than, you know, what I would say is my inner circle of, like, about five friends, and a couple of them were like, when are you gonna go? Like, great, you're done. You are declared cancer free. Let's go. Come on. Like, get out. And I was like, you guys. And I think that people. There were people that were, you know, most of my friends were very good about saying, whatever you do, I support you. But I think there were definitely people that are like, I think she's gonna turn another. Here comes a metaphor blind eye to this and just sit in it for the rest of her life. And, you know, if I did, I did, right? But, yeah, there were definitely people that thought, I think, thought that I was never going to do it. And I knew that I was, but it was going to be, when is it? Right on time.

When is the time, man, I love that.

I love. I. I love that, that phrase. I mean, I. It's. It's beautiful.

Of course, Kudos to you. There's so many layers to that phrase and that story, too. So when I see the parallels in right on time moments, like, oh, that's it. Like, it was all of it. Like, you're getting signs. Okay. Like, it's coming. It's like, okay, yeah.

And just, I think the. The power of mindfulness and just tuning in and not forcing yourself. Because I think sometimes people force themselves to leave something, whether it's a job or a particular relationship, and they're. They're doing it because they feel the pressure from society or what they believe they should be doing, and then it doesn't stick because they really, truly. I knew last September of 2022, when my now ex husband and I had this conversation, I knew there was no way. There was nothing he could say or do. I was like, I am done, period. And I. Yeah, I don't think that even six. We'd had kind of a recommitment six months prior, even then, I was prone to being reeled back in. Not that he was reeling me. It was a really great, honest conversation. But, you know, had I tried to walk away in March of 2022, it wouldn't have stuck.

Oh, nope. And actually, as you were saying that, like, okay, if I have those conversations, I'm like, I. I asked myself, like, I wonder if she would have had it earlier if it wouldn't have stuck. And there it like, no, yeah, no, it wasn't the right time. And, you know, in your being. And that's the other thing. I think that the mindfulness and that you were so in a season of listening to all of the clues and all of the things reflecting, processing so that you could show up for yourself. And you actually shared a quote recently in a. In an interview that you did, the five Big Questions interview with Caroline, which we can link up this interview as well. But you shared a quote. Oh, my gosh. Let me get to it by. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, wait. There are a couple layers to this. The quote that you'll probably recall and remember, as I say it is from the poet Warson Shire. And you shared this quote. I'll only have you if you're sweeter than my solitude. Yeah, I think that's what I was like reading.

I have chills now.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's. It's a guiding. That's a guiding. That's a beacon for me. A guiding light for sure. Yeah.

I. Your story and what you are doing and what you've created and who you are and what you are becoming is. Is so inspiring and so beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for sharing this with us.

You are so, so welcome. Thank you for having me on to share the story.

Unbelievable. I am moved and I'm inspired. Where do people get more of you?

You can find me on Instagram and Facebook at Nicole J. Christie and my website is nicolecristie.com and the podcast is called Here for Me. H E R E. Because you're being here for yourself the way you know you're here for others. We launched season three September 27th, so I encourage everybody to listen and share it, rate, review all the things we ask people to do with the podcast. But hopefully it resonates with people on. On, you know, whatever level they are experiencing in their life currently.

That's my hope here for me. Go. Listen, everybody. There is a reason you heard this episode today with Nicole. It is so right on time. There's a nugget in there. Keep following it. Head on over to check out and connect with Nicole And Nicole, I cannot wait until we get to talk again.

Thank you so much.