Episode 61: The Secrets Behind the Modern Coaching Industry

Get ready, because everything is about to change. There's a new way of living life and doing business that will blow your mind. This is a podcast all about the timing of life and the timing of success. It's what we call the Right on Time Life. And you are listening to the Right on Time podcast with Amber McHugh.

Hey.

Hey. Welcome to the Right on Time podcast. I am your host, Amber McHugh, and we have a special interview coming up today with the one and only Lee from coach with clarity.com and, you know, the first time I had a conversation with Lee, which we'll talk a little bit more about in this episode, I immediately knew that she was doing something unique, and she had some incredible perspectives that I wanted to share share with you. At the time I would talk to Lee, we were not even doing interviews on the Right on Time podcast yet. And I knew. I'm like, okay, we got to start interviews. And I got to talk to Lee because she's got some unique perspectives on the coaching industry. A former, actually an active therapist herself, she differentiates between coaching and therapy as well as coaching and consulting and other lines of work. But, you know, coaching's a little bit of a unique thing that can weave through a lot of the different work that we do. You know, I use coaching strategies with my children to get them to adapt behaviors and get where they want to be going and as well as clients, team members, family. So coaching is a skill that can be leveraged in many different areas of our life. So with Lee, we're going to talk a little bit more about what exactly is coaching and how can you leverage this, and how can you differentiate between coaching and other lines of expertise and skill sets? And how can you weave this into your lives and potentially benefit your clients in a big way as well? Let's dive into this episode, and at the end, we'll circle back and do a little debrief. Can't wait to hear what you think. Leigh, it is so great to have you here on the Write On Time podcast. Thank you for joining us. Hi, Amber.

I am so excited to be here. Thank you for welcoming me.

Oh, my gosh, absolutely. And we have known each other for about a year now, and from the moment we started talking, I was so excited to learn about your approach to coaching and your background and how all of these elements of coaching. And then we dabbled the first time we talked, even we went into the consulting and the differences, et cetera. So I'm really excited to share this episode and this conversation with people today. But before we dive in, tell us a little bit about your background and your journey. So everyone is up to speed on what I know as well, because it's super special.

Absolutely. So before I became the founder of Coach with Clarity, which is a training and education company for life and business coaches, I started out as a psychotherapist. So I'm still a licensed clinical social worker, though I'm no longer practicing as a therapist. But I spent the first 15 plus years of my career serving individuals, couples, and families. And during that point, my husband was also in the Air Force. So we moved around a bit, and I was able to serve a wide variety of populations. I did inpatient psych, outpatient psych. I worked in the neonatal ICU for a few years. I worked for the va, I worked for the Air Force. So I felt really grateful to have such a breadth and depth of experience. And then in 2015, my husband and I decided together that our time in the Air Force was done. And so we transitioned from Germany, where we had been stationed, back to the United States, from military life to civilian life. We had a lot of big transitions going on. So I took a beat. I focused on helping my family make that transition. And after about nine months, I started getting the itch to return to work. Though I knew that I didn't necessarily want to do mental health as I had been doing it for the previous 15 years, I was looking for a different way to support people. And while all of this was going on, my husband had bought a dental practice because he's a periodontist. And I started noticing in him the unique tension that happens when you're really good, actually, in his case, exceptional at what you do, which is being a periodontist. But you've never owned a business before. And he had a lot of on the job training in the art of business, you know, having a staff and running payroll and handling hr, all while still operating as a clinician. And so when I saw him trying to navigate this territory, I thought, ooh, this is really interesting. I think I could help people like him navigate this. And that's when I started exploring business coaching. One thing led to another. The more people I coached, the more they asked me about coaching and becoming coaches themselves. And that's ultimately what led me down the training and education path.

Wow, that is incredible. There is so much there. There is some nuggets that I did not know before. So I'm so glad that you. And thank you for sharing your story and your journey, because, wow, you've a lot of things, you've been in a lot of different spaces and when you started your coaching practice it was focused on business. Did I understand that right?

That's right. And because of my background as a therapist, most of my early clients were therapists themselves in private practice or looking to transition into private practice, wanting to have profitable, sustainable businesses in addition to their client work. And I had a few other health care professionals in there as well. But largely I focused on therapists and business coaching for therapists when I first started out.

Oh my goodness. Phenomenal. Now fast forward to today. What does the business and how you serve and connect with your clients, what does that look like today?

Right now the focus of my business really is on training and educating coaches so that they are not only serving their clients powerfully, but they're doing so from an informed, ethical perspective. So I have a full certification program that's accredited by the International Coaching Federation, or icf. That's the Certified Clarity Coaching Coach program, which is very exciting. And then I also run the Coach with Clarity membership and that's accredited for continuing education. So for coaches who already have their credential, if they want to keep it up to date, they can get the renewal hours they need through the membership. So those are the two main programs that I have.

So phenomenal. Now there is so much to unpack here. I mean, because I hear people talking about, okay, what's the journey I need to go down if I want to get my program, make it a certification, what do I need? Coaching versus consulting, what are these differences? And then there's this element of coaching applies in so many areas of our lives and what we do and the relationships we build with people. So let's start there. Let's start with what is coaching and what is the difference between coaching and consulting? For example, in your eyes, that is.

Such a fantastic question. And I want to start by saying while I'm about to provide a clear definition, I really empower people to come up with a definition that's going to work for them. And so I'll share my definition. But like, let's use that as a springboard because there are all sorts of different ways that we can talk about what coaching is. But the way that I define it for Coach with Clarity is that coaching is a dynamic, client centered, co creative process and a partnership that really empowers our clients to define and explore and embody the fullest expression of themselves. So that's a pretty all encompassing definition. But I think really the key takeaways are that we are always centering the client. It is their agenda that takes precedence in the work that we do. So while I may have thoughts and ideas, those come secondary to really honoring the client's own wisdom and experience. My role as the coach is to. To help co create that container in which we can explore these ideas and talk about what comes next. So I'm the expert in the process. The client is always the expert in themselves. And so coaching then is the process of kind of marrying our two wisdoms together in order to help the client really figure out what's going to be the best opportunities and the best path forward for them.

How beautiful. And it makes so much sense to me because when I started down this path as well, I was in the consulting field and I was wondering, oh, do I want to do coaching? Should I explore coaching? And it's funny because I went through an MBA program at Hopkins that focused on organization development. And I was looking at the coaching path at that time because I wanted to get more connected to the individual because as we're running companies and organizations, you know, people make up these companies and our organizations. It's not strategy doesn't just happen on its own, but people create these strategies and bring visions to life. And I, my, the program director in that MBA program was also an executive coach. And what I found as I was exploring this, I'm like, oh, I love weaving in coaching elements to what I do, but I consult. Right. That was what I realized about where I was on my journey at that time. Like, no, you are a consultant. Like, let's be very clear. And yes, we'll pull through coaching. So is it, is it your belief that people who are in roles like consulting, like being a therapist, like, right. Being in a consulting thought leader space, any role. Right. There's so many different roles. We have thought leadership happening. Is it your belief that we can pull through that coaching into those other roles?

Absolutely. The thing that unites coaching, consulting, therapy, mentoring and the like is that we really do care about our clients and their outcomes. It's the process that we use that differs ever so slightly. I will admit that sometimes when I'm working with my own private clients because I still see a few people one on one. And in a small mastermind that I have, sometimes I'll take a hybrid role where it's one part coaching, one part consulting. I'm always clear though, about where those boundaries are. I always ask permission before I move from one role into another with my clients. I think that's really Important. Making sure that we have consent from our clients before we switch gears, before we offer guidance, is critical. And one way that we can do that is by pulling in some coaching techniques, like active listening and powerful questioning to ensure that we're all on the same page and that it's really the client's needs that are being centered.

So, beautiful.

How.

What is the way that you would phrase that? Ask, when you're shifting from one role to the next, what does that look like for you?

I'm pretty transparent, and I'll even say, you know, I'm noticing that I'm having a thought come up right now or an idea. Would it be okay with you if I took off my coach hat and put on my consultant hat and shared it with you? And my clients are pretty open to that because, you know, we've established that kind of relationship. That might not be something I do right from the start with our very first meeting together, but once we've kind of developed rapport and we've established that trust and those expectations, simply being really transparent and asking permission is typically the best way to go. I don't think I've ever had a client say no, but I'm also really careful when and how I ask.

So beautiful. What are some of the specific coaching skills? Like, if someone went through learning to become a coach, what are you learning? What does that look like? What are the skills that you are picking up as you go through that process?

Well, first and foremost, a good coach listens more than they speak. And so we need to be really clear on what listening is. And listening is one of those skills that's fundamental and it's simple, and it's okay. If people are listening right now and thinking, I know how to listen, you do know how to listen, I hope. But there are different levels of listening, and there's different things that we can do. Sometimes we're listening strictly for content, what the person is saying. Sometimes we're listening more for the underlying beliefs or emotions or the values. We're listening for what the client is not saying just as much as what they are saying. So. So we're exploring the different levels of listening. And while we're listening to the client, we're also very much attuned to what's going on within ourselves, because each one of us has been gifted with an intuition. Each one of us has been gifted with that sense of inner knowing. And often when I'm coaching someone, they'll say something, and I'll get a sense inside of, oh, that's important follow up on that. Oh, you should maybe explore this piece. And so it's this balancing act between really dedicating our focus to the client, yet also being aware of what's going on within us so that we can take that and allow that to inform the experience we're co creating with our clients.

So beautiful. So how, you know, active listening. Right. And you said. You said from the jump, and I was totally chuckling as you said that. That like, yes, of course we know how to listen. Like, we know what these things are. How does practicing and learning to become a coach enhance these skills? Like how. And how does this different from just being human and being an incredible consultant or being an incredible mentor already? What's going to differentiate us on a coaching path?

I think part of it is in how we frame our contributions. Oftentimes when I'm working with a really terrific consultant, they come in and they're like, here's what I'm hearing you say. And so based on that, we can do this, this, or this. And oftentimes they're spot on. And again, I love, I love working with consultants. I think they are experts in their field. They know how to assess a situation, provide some insights and some suggestions, and there is a time and a place for a consultant, I would say, in anyone's business. The difference though, between consulting and coaching is that when I'm wearing a consultant hat, I am going to be more directive. Hopefully. The client always feels like they have the right to say, thanks, but no thanks, but I'm still coming with, this is what I see. And this is what I would recommend as a coach. Rather than being quite so direct, I'm more likely to ask questions. I'm more likely to ask the client to start with their own ideas, their own possibilities. My job is to kind of pull that out of them. Only once we've really kind of exhausted their pool of ideas, might I then suggest one? And that's really just to serve as a springboard for them to continue to come up with their own strategies?

Yeah. You know, listening to this, it becomes so evident to me how coaching can support any. Any role where you're working with humans. Right. Because change is hard for us as individuals. And I can think of so many times in my consciousness consulting role where someone just tell me what to do. I just need to know what to do. Okay. And we can lay out that path, no problem. We lay out 10 paths for you to get to that destination. Got it. And sometimes there really is a not knowing. Like I'VE totally said to a coach before. I'm like, this is what I know I need. I don't have a clue how to get there. I need the path, right? So there are times that this is so valuable and then there are times when I've been in a relationship with a client and like, I know the path. We've talked about the path. Yeah, I know you know the path, but it's not happening. And this is where I think we go. I go back to change management. I mean, I'm, I'm sitting in the dining or across from the dining room right now and I just thought of a moment a week ago where my husband and I were talking about a project that he's got going on and he's got to get some serious buy in from his organization, the team that he's working with, because they're doing something different, they're doing something new. I'm like, this sounds like it's a new project, babe. Has your team ever worked like this? Have they ever done any? It's like, no, never. This is totally new. This is totally foreign. This is totally different. Yeah, it's very new. And like people, there's resistance that comes up because change is hard for us. We are human. Even if it's good change that we're bought into, like, yeah, that's a great recommendation. I should do that. So I can hear a lot of value in what you're saying. Like it's a co creation process. It's where are you in this process? What do you think? And guiding to a solution versus here it is. Because we can Google, here it is.

Yeah, I think you've really hit on something too. And this is kind of the next phase of coaching. So we've talked about listening and we've talked about centering the client and helping them brainstorm ideas. What happens though, when a client has a fantastic idea? They've got the roadmap, they've got the vision, they know what they're doing and they don't take action on it. That is where some really deep coaching can come into play. Because typically if a client isn't taking action on something they really want that's connected to their values, it's sometimes because of an external block and you know, external blocks, we can, we can address those. Whether that's not having a resource that you need, not having a particular skill set or knowledge base, we know how to find those, but usually it tends to be more of an internal block. Whether it's a belief that is holding them back, whether it's a schema that they've just kind of played out for probably most of their lives. And so it's in the examination of those processes that we can go even deeper in coaching. And I think this is where coaching and consulting can really enhance each other because the consultant piece helps create that roadmap and that workflow. And then when it's not working as well as we want, the coaching piece can come in and really take a deep look at what might be getting in our way.

Oh my goodness. So powerful. I'm still just kind of playing through what you're saying. In that conversation I had with my husband. He's not a consultant. He gets. He consults, right? He. He does have that skill set, but that's not his role. And he is on a team and he's executing a project and he's got expertise and, and leadership that he's playing. But boy, would consulting skills be so. Or coaching skills be so helpful for getting that buy in to move people forward toward where, yeah, we all ultimately want to be there, but the way to get there is sometimes not so straight line.

I think you're exactly right. And I think at the end of the day, coaching really is about people management. It's about understanding how to manage our own thoughts and emotions and desires and values and also those of others. And what do we do when they come into conflict with each other? What do we do when we have those value clashes? And how can we address this in a way that's not manipulative or exploitative, but really honors what each person brings to the table? I think when we're looking at that and we're bringing in those coaching skills, it can help make a complicated situation a little more streamlined. And really we're looking for ways where ideally everyone can win so that everyone feels heard. Everyone feels like their contributions matter.

Yes. I love the Woodwind. So beautiful. Oh my gosh, Lee, there is still so much here. Okay, another question I have for you as we build upon this and take a mini shift here, is related to do we need a certification to do this? Do we need training period to step into this role of coach and to build this relationship with our clients in this way?

Oh, I have so many thoughts on this topic. I love talking about this topic. I think it's important to acknowledge from the get go that coaching is a self regulated industry. Now that's a term I use. I know other people call it an unregulated industry. It's fair to say that in Most countries there are no licensure requirements or regulations for coaching. Anyone can call themselves a coach and open up their business tomorrow. But to say that it's unregulated I think is a little unfair because there are organizations like the International Coaching Federation, like the center for Credentialing and Education that do provide credentials that have a code of ethics, that have core competencies that we follow. And so some coaches choose to opt in to those and that is something that one has to opt into because it's not required. But that's that self regulation piece. So I want to start off by acknowledging the fact that no one has to get a certification or a credential or training to become a coach. I am a proponent of every single coach exploring a path of coach specific education that works for them. Now for some people that will be a full on soup to nuts certification program. For some people it might look more like creating their own self study program where they are reading books, they are listening to podcasts, they are working with a mentor coach, they are seeking some supervision that can be equally as valid a way to really deepen your mastery as a coach. Other people may look for at workshops and continuing education programs. I'm not here to say one track is better than another, but I am here to encourage every single coach to really invest in their own education and to choose a path that works for them to ensure that they're staying current on coaching techniques and they're really providing the best service they can for their clients.

Oh Lee, that was beautiful. I'd never heard that differentiation of unregulated versus self regulated it before and I think you're spot on. It is a little bit unfair. It's unregulated. There are structures in place now, whether we choose as individuals to step into that coaching certification space or to your point, there could be another path for you to acquire the skills and build these skills. How beautiful. You know, and we've talked about some different professions that could benefit, right? And really, and from my perspective, anyone who works with humans could benefit from write some learning some of these skills and enhancing our skills to coach. Because there will be a point in all of our careers, in all of our lives and all of our businesses with our families where we want to guide someone to a different place.

Absolutely.

Even with my kids, like I can tell them to do stuff, but man, it's exhausting. Like, pick up your shoes, pick up your shoes. There are a bunch of shoes by the front door right now.

That is exactly what my my house Looks like right now too, my 15 and 12 year old boys do not understand what it means to put their shoes away. Drives me crazy.

Oh my gosh. My husband tries so hard to at least get them to go in the back door to kick off their shoes. Like they're not going in the back door. They get home from school, they're exhausted. So we can use these skills in so many different ways. And one area, you know, where coaching, we talked about coaching and consulting, there being an overlap. Right. And there being some question around how do you differentiate between these two? And another area that comes up is coaching versus the therapy space. How do you differentiate those?

Yes, that's kind of the million dollar question. That's something that I get asked quite a bit. And as someone who is both a therapist and a coach, I've seen it from both sides, both as being the therapist and the coach, but also as being a client. I've been a therapy client, I've been a coaching client, so. And I've also been a therapist supervisor and a coach supervisor. So I kind of see it from all perspectives here. And what I would say is that when we are talking about someone who has a diagnosable mental health disorder, someone who is actively symptomatic, so really struggling with depression, anxiety, trauma, you name it, to the point where it's interfering with their ability to function on a day to day basis, that's really the purview of therapy where a trained and licensed mental health professional can step in and provide support so that that person is able to get back to baseline, maybe even get a little above baseline as well. Now coaching, on the other hand, it's not that we can't work with people who have a history of mental health illness or anything like that, but our role is not to treat, it's not to diagnose. That really belongs in the purview of therapy. What we can do though is once someone has worked with a therapist and they've resolved some of those past issues and they're looking to really excel, so to move beyond baseline, to move beyond what's been their norm and into more optimal behavior, that's where I see coaching can really come in and kind of take the baton from therapy. So I don't see them as competing with each other at all. I see it more as what is more appropriate for you in your timeline. If we look at your personal timeline, your personal journey, there may be points where therapy is more appropriate and then points where coaching is more appropriate. There may even be a little bit of overlap. And I do work with people who see a therapist for one need and work with me for another need. And so with careful coordination, that can happen as well. But as coaches, we need to really understand where our boundaries are with treating limiting beliefs, which is certainly in our purview versus kind of intrusive thoughts or any sort of trauma related beliefs that have not yet been fully resolved. That's definitely therapy territory.

Fabulous. That makes a lot of sense. And I could see where it could be like, okay, which space am I operating in? But when you have training, right? When you have the knowledge and you're able to separate, okay, now we've, we're crossing into a territory that I should not. Right. And I do the same thing in consulting. I'm like, okay, I can get you this far. Like SEO is the one I always bring up. Like, I can get you this far, teeny tiny bit. And then let's bring in the pros. So in all of these areas, recognizing and I think that you're going through a coaching training, going through understanding this can really help write different. Oh, okay. This is when I'm playing this role. This is when I'm playing another role. And what is this role and where do I need to disclose to the client? Which you brought up at the beginning, which I think is so powerful to create that transparency with our clients.

I think you're right. I think this is one area where having training or education can really benefit the coach. And one of the questions I get a lot, because so many of my clients are therapists or former therapists. They really want me to define the difference, like what do I do differently in a coaching session than a therapy session? And it's more nuanced than that. And that's why in the certification program, so much of the work we do is peer coaching. It's coaching labs where I can observe and then sometimes I will do the coaching so they can observe me. And there have been times where issues have come up and I have responded not as a therapist, but as a coach. And then we debrief it later and the comment is always, wow. My initial tendency was to ask these kinds of questions, but I can see how those are more therapy oriented. You, on the other hand, Lee, you asked these types of questions and that's more coaching oriented. And so sometimes some of these questions we can talk them through. But it's not really until you observe them or experience them yourself that it really starts to kind of click and it's like, okay, I got this. It's really about the lens through which I'm viewing the client and their issue. Am I viewing this as a therapeutic issue? Am I viewing this as a coaching issue? And as I mentioned before, some issues are very clearly therapy issues and that's where they stay. But when we get in these gray zone areas, that's where making sure that you've got the training and the supervision, it can really serve you in knowing which way to move forward.

Oh, that's so neat. You mentioned supervision. Which led me to another thought around a coaching certification process, which is, you know, and I'm just kind of thinking through all of the objections I have. Right. I would have. I did get some coach training in the MBA program because of the benefit of the director's experience. But when I think about like ICF going through a certification program specifically over there, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm already so busy. What is this going to look like? I've done observations, I've done, you know, practicums before. Is this going to feel like school again? And so, and what is time commitment? All of these things that come up? What does going through a coaching certification program look like? What could we expect if we stepped into that space?

Yes, well, certainly it's going to depend on the type of certification and credential that you want. But I find that the most successful training programs do have some sort of formal learning program. So it's that didactic piece where, you know, you're learning the skills. So if we were back in college, it would be the lecture. And then we also need the experiential component. So if we were in college, that would be the lab. So we learn all of these things, then we need an area where we can practice them with our peers and certainly with some oversight from the instructor. And then we've got the supervision piece or the mentoring piece piece. And when I work with my students or with clients who want mentor coaching, I actually have them coach me. So I'm the client.

Love that.

Yeah. I bring a real world topic to the table and they coach me on it for 20, 30, however many minutes. And then at the conclusion of the session, I start by asking them, so tell me, what was that session like for you? What did you notice? What did you feel went well? Where did you feel any sticky points? And then we debrief it. But I let them lead again. Again, it's that client centered focus where they're leading and then I'll provide some feedback. Of course, as the mentor coach, that's my Responsibility. But the goal really is to help them refine their skills as a coach. So it's not to shame or denigrate them. It's not to point out all the things they're doing wrong. It's really to shine a spotlight on the things that are working well and to provide some suggestions on these might be some areas that you might want to focus on a little more.

Wow, that's incredible. I love that you step into that role of client first to fully experience, to provide feedback. Um, that's beautiful, because I could imagine it may be a little intimidating. I mean, I know my first client relationships, like, am I going to say the wrong thing? What's this going to feel like? And I would think about the same thing. Going into a coaching space. We're getting training, they're going to be watching me. But you just step right into the role instead of observing. First, do you observe at some point a client coach relationship?

I do. So my students are matched up with each other for peer coaching. So they'll have a fellow student who's their client, and then they'll have a different student who's their coach. And they conduct coaching sessions, they record them, and I observe a certain number of them throughout the entire experience and provide written feedback and so forth. So there is an observational component there in addition to actually live coaching me and getting feedback real time time.

This is beautiful. I love your process and I love how much you've shared with us on this. One other question on the certification process, because I've heard from so many people who've wondered, should I turn my program into a certification? What made you decide to go that route?

That is a wonderful question. It's something actually that people kept mentioning to me for a few years, like, oh, Lee, have you ever thought about running a certification? And I kept saying, no, no, no, no. There's 8 million certification programs out there. The world doesn't need another one. And then in 2020, when the world started falling apart with coronavirus, also with what we were seeing in terms of racial injustice, I started getting really disillusioned by what I was seeing from other coach training companies out there. Not going to name any names, but I will say, on the whole, some of the larger ones were pretty quiet with regard to what we were seeing in terms of just social unrest. And it was in stark contrast to their values. And I started talking to people who had gone through those training programs. I went through one of them myself. I was talking with my colleagues, and we were all feeling really really frustrated. And it was like, someone should do something. And finally I was like, well, maybe it's time for me to kind of put my program out there. And I don't mean to suggest that I have it all right, because I don't. I'm still learning, I'm still making mistakes, but I'm also doing the work. And another thing, too, is I wanted to make sure that when I had a certification program, we weren't just paying lip service to the importance of diversity, equity, and inclusion in coaching, because that is a central part of creating safety and of centering our clients, is ensuring that we understand our role in viewing their culture and their beliefs in total, like how it affects who they are as business owners, as parents, as spouses, as human beings? Within the certification program, I compensate other trainers, people of color, people representing marginalized communities to provide that training. Because, honestly, I don't think it needs to come from a white woman. I think it needs to come from people who are experts in the field and have lived experience. That was one of the motivating factors as to why I finally decided, I'm going to do this. I'm going to put this program out there, and I'm still learning, and I'm still figuring out the best way to do that and the best way to amplify voices that are not mine. But I just feel like this has to be a part of coach training and education moving forward, because if not, then we are doing a huge disservice to the global majority.

Lee, that was so beautiful. And, you know, as soon as you started sharing that journey, I thought, man, how stinking. Right on time. Like, you saw something that needed to change and could be done different and better, and you stepped into it. Was that a hard thing to do? How did that feel as you were navigating those decisions and moving through that?

It was incredibly hard. It still feels hard. It feels very vulnerable to say this matters to me. And yet I also understand that I don't need to be the person centered in this either. So how can I use my gifts and talents and resources in a way that serves the greater good and also places the spotlight where it needs to be? And so that's what I'm still figuring out, you know, how to. How to bring people in and compensate, you know, women of color in particular, so that the entire coaching field benefits from their knowledge and their knowing. So both kind of like that information that they have to share, but also their lived experience, because that's so important. And so that looks like Ensuring that on my own podcast, I'm interviewing a diverse range of experts, centering their expertise because that's really what matters, but also ensuring that we're being representative. It looks like as I continue to build and grow my certification programs and the membership, my guest experts are equally representative. And also continuing to do my own work, meeting with my own DEI coach and. And asking for help with my blind spots and that sort of thing, too. So really committing to the work and being comfortable with being uncomfortable, because that's the other thing, too. There's a lot of discomfort, really, in entrepreneurship in general. If we're growing, we're going to be pretty uncomfortable. This is definitely a zone of discomfort for me. And so it's not shying away from it, but continuing to try to just take one step forward. So it feels very vulnerable, but it also feels really important.

Important. So important. And again, right when we're out of values alignment, okay, there's a discontent that happens there, a discomfort. And also when we're in values alignment and going down the right path, there can be a discomfort. But you. We're choosing values alignment and staying in an authentic relationship with ourselves and who we want to be and how we want to show up in the world. Even though it's going to be messy. I mean, he said, even though, like, I'm still messing up. Yes, yes, yes, we will. But we got to show up. We got to show up in alignment with our beliefs.

That's exactly right. And I think, and I'm guilty of this as well. You know, we don't want to make mistakes publicly. We don't want to be called out. It's scary. And we don't want to be canceled. But if we allow that fear to take the lead, then we're centering ourselves, then I'm centering me. And that's not going to help anyone. Anyone. And so it's understanding that when we are corrected, it's a calling in. I love that phrase that we're being called in. We're being called to do better. And that when I make a mistake, which I have and will continue to do, so it doesn't mean I'm a terrible, horrible human being. It means, oh, this is something I haven't learned yet, or I haven't really integrated that learning on a deeper level. And so here's an invitation to do that.

That so beautiful. I love that calling in as well. And it reminds me of a quote from a mentor of mine, Jen Quinlan, who shared in an article I was reading once that I reserve the right to get smarter. Like, we're gonna mess this up. Full permission. We. When we know better, we do better. Maya Angelou. But I am reserving that right. I'm gonna say what I know now. And, and yeah, I'm going to hold on to this right to do better constantly. And for someone who's hearing this interview and is thinking, okay, maybe I need to improve, enhance, step into this nudge or this calling I've been hearing to move down a coaching path or to add that skill to my toolbox to serve my clients better. Where do we learn more?

Well, if you're interested in learning more about my program, you can certainly check that out over@coachwithclarity.com but I would also encourage you to do some research on the different types of certifications and credentials out there to determine which one's going to work best for you and also work best for your clients. So really, I would say the International Coaching Federation is a fantastic place to start. They are responsible for credentialing coaches and accrediting programs. So if you're exploring a coach training program, you can look to see whether it is ICF accredited. And certainly in addition to icf, there's some other organizations as well. The center for Credentialing and Education, the International association of Coaching, they're also at the forefront of ensuring high quality coach training and education. So you can kind of explore what options are there. And then certainly, if you want, you can check out the Coach with Clarity podcast. We've got a couple episodes on coaching certifications. What you need to know. I think that's episode 25. So there's a lot of information out there to help help you really make an informed decision about what's going to serve you and your business best.

Oh, my goodness. Lee, thank you so much for being here. We always on the Right on Time podcast, go unexpected places, but it's always so very right on time. And before we wrap up, I want to make sure I ask, have we missed anything? Are there any final thoughts? Is there a stone we did not turn over? Is there anything top of mind for. For you still?

Oh, my gosh. I think we've covered so much in this conversation and I hope the takeaway that people hear is that while coaching is a profession and it can be a business, it's also very much how we choose to live our lives and how we choose to communicate with others, to take the needs of others into account, and how we live out our own values. So while coaching can be a profession. It can also be a lifestyle. It certainly is for me and I think it really is for the people that we really love to work with as well.

Oh, so beautiful. Leigh. Thank you for coming on the podcast, Amber.

This was so much fun.

Oh, my goodness, what an incredible episode. We covered a lot of territory and I was just going to keep on rolling through and into that conversation. I had to cut myself off there. And in fact, that's exactly what I did. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm just going to stop recording right now, Lee, because I was getting ready to roll into more conversation with you about that incredible conversation we had with Lee. You know, as we stepped through that conversation, the ahas I was having were pretty clear and evident, like, oh my goodness, my husband needs to grab some coaching skills resource, beef up his coaching toolkit because there are so many different areas of our business and lives where we can leverage coaching to move things forward. So I really hope that you got a lot out of this conversation and that it sparked some things for you. Whether you're thinking about going down a certification path for coaching or it helped you simply see some of those differences between what is coaching and what's happening in the coaching industry right now. Because there is a place for you in this if you feel that nudge and if you feel that calling again, Lee can be found@coachwithclarity.com and I want to thank you for being here on the Right On Time podcast with us today. It's been a joy to hang out with you. It's always a gift. And if you got a nugget out of this, like, subscribe, give us a review. We would love to hear from you somewhere on the Internet, even if it's over at Instagram @ Amber McHugh is my handle. I love connecting with you, I love hearing from you, and I wish you the very best in the rest of your day. Until next time.