Amy Osmond Cook

Hi, I'm Nisha Deghering, host of Good Things Utah, and I've been a longtime supporter of Todd's Beliefcast. I hope you find inspiration in the courageous stories shared by the amazing people Todd features on his show. The guests serve as shoulders for us to stand on, allowing us to see a little further and cultivate belief in oneself. Remember, you have the dignity and power to change. I encourage you to keep striving and believing in yourself. Enjoy today's podcast.

All right, welcome back everybody. This is Todd Sylvester with the Todd Inspires Beliefcast. Today I am honored to sit down with Amy Cook, the powerhouse CMO and co-founder of Fullcast, and a platform transforming how revenue teams plan, perform, and grow. With a PhD in communication and a deep background in marketing and revs op leadership, Amy has helped scale companies, align teams, and elevate voices as especially those often left out of the tech conversation. From building multi-million dollar strategies to mentoring women in leadership, Amy brings heart, hustle— I added that one, that was mine because you're a hustler— high impact to wisdom to everything she touches. She does not just make— she's not just a marketing expert, she's a visionary bridge builder between people, performance, and purpose. So I, you know, I've known you for a while now, Amy. Uh, we met— gosh, has it been 10 years? 8 years ago?

Yeah.

And I've always admired you. Um, you, you've worked with Forbes magazine. You're just this high-powered person. You have a light about you that really shines when you walk into a room. I think many people say that about you. So anyway, I just always admire your work, and I just am honored to have you on the show today.

Well, it is such a pleasure. I really appreciate it, and I love what you're doing. I think that—

thanks—

you know, to spend your time in your days lifting other people up is like the highest calling ever. I think it's amazing.

Oh, I appreciate that. I really do. Well guys, we're in for a great conversation today, so thank you for tuning in. Thanks for always, you know, supporting the show. It means the world to me. So Amy, why don't you help us and our listeners, you know, get to know you a little bit. Tell us where you grew up and maybe some information about your family.

Sure, you bet. Um, I grew up in Provo, Utah. I'm the oldest of 5 children. And something that's a little unique about me is that I am the daughter of an entertainer. Wayne Osmond was one of the Osmond Brothers. Had a career starting at age 6 and retired at about 63. So he had almost, you know, a lot of years behind him of work. And he recently passed away. And so he's been on my mind a lot.

Yeah, lately.

But it was a fabulous time growing up. I felt really lucky. Um, one thing that was impactful to me, in at first a negative way and then a positive way, was that when I was 6 years old, my dad and his whole family found out that they lost all their money. What was originally—

oh wow.

Um, you know, in today's dollars it would be around probably $500 million. And one day my grandpa came to my dad and said, "It's all gone, every single bit of it, and we're in deep debt." And my dad was just absolutely crushed and had a lot of health challenges resulting from that. And at first, for me growing up in this, it was really hard for me to watch my parents struggle. And it was especially hard to watch them struggle when from the outside perspective, they wanted— they and, you know, others wanted everything to seem fine, right? And they were lucky because they could still work and everything, but it was a real blow to them.

Yeah.

And so that was, that was something that impacted me kind of early, especially me and my two brothers, um, where we were like, you know, we're gonna just work as hard as we possibly can. And my, um, my dad always said, hey, the one of the reasons I struggled so much financially is because I didn't have a college education. So I want you all to go get college education. And so, you know, a lot of— there are many ways to get an education these days. Yeah, at the time that was what my parents wanted me to do. So, so, uh, so we did that. Um, the CliffsNotes version were, um, was that I got married, um, I got divorced about 5 years later. I had 2 little kids, and, um, I had no idea what I was going to do. My plan was to get married and never look back.

Yeah, right.

And just raise kids. And that's what my mom did. That's what I was planning on doing. And, yeah, and I just didn't have that option anymore. And so I thought, well, I don't know what I am gonna do. And so I— luckily I did have a college degree, and I thought being a professor would be a good way to, you know, get back into everything and be flexible for the kids. And so I went back to school, and while I was trying to finish my doctorate, I got remarried. And I thought, oh, my problems are over. He was the problem solved, cutest guy. Yeah. And, and he was a finance guy, and we had, um we had two other— two— so I had two for my first marriage and then, um, two from my second marriage. And Jeff got a job with Lehman Brothers, uh, one month before they went bankrupt. So then all of a sudden he had no job and he couldn't move because we had a custody situation in place where it was going to be difficult to move.

Yeah.

And, and I thought, oh my gosh, well, it's time for me to go to work. There, there's really no other option, right?

This is what we're going to have to do.

Exactly. And that is just You know, even though it was not what I had planned on, I started, you know, trying to do that and I needed flexibility. So I started a marketing agency and started just trying to pick up whatever work I could get. I, because I was getting my doctorate in communication, I knew how to write. And so I would go to these businesses and say, hey, is there any way I can just like write some articles for you? And so, you know, at first they were like, all right, I'll throw you a bone here. Here's an article to write. And then they would say, well, um, I see that you can write, can you design? Well, no, I couldn't design, and so I hired someone to design, right? And they said, okay, well, you can write and design, can you do web? Um, you can write and design and do web, can you do business strategy? And so I learned very organically how to do marketing just from trial and error, really, with the content background.

And so winging it.

You know, just went, yeah, just kind of like, right? I had the Richard Branson quote in my head. I was listening to him one day and he said, when I was first starting my business, I told everybody yes, no matter what. And then I figured out how to do it later. I thought, well, that's good enough for me too. That's what I'm gonna have to do. So, you know, after that, I don't know if this is too long of a story.

No, no, this is great. I appreciate it. This is helpful.

After that, I started picking up some fractional work. So I was very grateful to, first of all, start off as a marketing director for a healthcare company. And then I was very fortunate to work with Ryan Westwood, who was running Simplest at the time. And I was helping him ghostwrite some Forbes columns. And I let him know one day that I was looking for something a little bit different. And he was looking for a marketing lead at the same time. And so it was just the most amazing opportunity. I basically put my marketing business on hold and went over to be his CMO at Simplus. At Simplus, we grew the business, we sold it to Infosys, and then I thought, wow, that was really fun. Let's see if I can do it again, you know? And so, uh, was fortunate to work with a guy named Dan Lambert, um, as his CMO. We grew a business called PathologyWatch and sold it to a company called Sonic Healthcare. Oh, and then I was like, oh, that was so fun. What now? Now what can I do? And so then I was fortunate to work with Ryan Wells, and we built, um, Onboard, and it was sold to Conservus. And so now Fullcast is it. I sold my agency and I'm all in on, on Fullcast and trying to help this grow in Silicon Slopes.

The next challenge, right?

It's the next challenge. But through that, I learned quite a few important lessons about how not everything goes right all the time. You know, you have to be able to pivot. And sometimes your greatest blessings are things you never expected and didn't even look for.

Yeah. And I love how you said, you know, you didn't— you were kind of winging it like, okay, I got to figure this out, you know? And anyone listening to this starting something new, that's usually what it looks like. You're like, I got to just figure this out to the point where, if I'm not mistaken, you were named the 2024 Utah Business Leader of the Year, correct?

Yes. Thank you.

So congratulations on that. And I remember seeing that and I was like, wow. And that's not an easy thing to get. Because there's probably so many people that they could pick from. And so congratulations on doing that. But going from that to that, right? And all the things you've learned, and to hear you say, this is— it was so much fun, you know. I'm sure there was a little tears in between there sometimes.

There were a lot of tears. There are a lot of tears. A lot of, what am I doing? A lot of like, I hope nobody knows I don't know anything. Yeah, you know, a lot of that all the way through. But I feel very grateful and deserving. But I'm just very grateful to have had the opportunities to grow and learn. And even the really challenging times were really good moments of growth.

So. What do you think of this statement? I'm just curious what you think that, sorry here. Um, life happens for you. What do you think of that?

Oh, I've never heard that before.

Let's see, it's the opposite of life happens to you.

Oh, I love this actually.

Yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Life happens for it. Well, I do think that— so when I was getting my PhD, there's, there's a guy named Kenneth Burke that I used to study, and he was widely known as the greatest philosopher of the 20th century. And he had something pretty profound that I, I fully believe, and that is that we have so much input coming in at us. It's been— it's that way more than ever, right? We have so many things in this world.

Yeah.

That we could turn our attention to. Our brains literally cannot process it, right? So His famous statement is, any representation of reality is a deflection of one reality in favor of another reality. I've bastardized the quote, but it basically is that you're not experiencing reality, you are selecting reality and deflecting another reality. And I think that that is really powerful because— and I think it's true.

Yeah.

And so when people say like things like, you know, I'm going to manifest this to happen, I'm going to will this to happen, what I look at it as more in terms of instead of them conjuring it up in thin air, what I think they're doing is selecting certain experiences, using those to define their reality and finding meaning in the experiences that they select.

I like that. I've never heard of it said that way either, and I think that makes sense. I like that a lot. You know, um, obviously you grew up, uh, in a family who entertained and things like that. What were some of the big lessons? I mean, I know it's a tough question, but some of the big lessons you learned from your family growing up?

Well, there are a few things, a few sayings that we always would say to each other, and the first one is the show must go on. I remember, you know, I used to do 12 shows. I was the violinist in the show back in the day. Yes, and so I would do 12 shows a week, um, 2 shows a day, 6 days a week while I was in high school and going to school. And didn't matter if you were tired, it didn't matter if you were sick, the show must go on. And that's kind of life too. The life goes on, show must go on. You have to pick yourself up and, and get it done you know, regardless of how you feel.

Yeah.

And so I think that was a really, really good lesson that I've taken throughout my life. Um, another one was, you're only as good as your last show. I think that is so true.

Wow.

It doesn't matter how many accolades you have, it doesn't matter how many times you've been successful, you're only as good as the one that you're doing right now.

That's amazing. I— yeah, I like that a lot, actually. Well, you know, my perception of you is that you're, and everyone's I think, is you're a hustler. We said that in the beginning. And that's a total compliment to you.

Thank you.

Did you learn that because of that? You know, like, hey, the show must go on. Hey, you may be tired, but hey, we've committed to doing this show. We need you.

I think it's a personality thing as well as a, you know, it was probably a personality trait that was emphasized by growing up in the family that I did. I remember when I was 6 years old, I was swinging on the swings in my backyard and I had this like fear overcome me. And I was walking— it's one of my core memories as a kid. I'm walking back into the house and I thought, it is 1982, I am 6 already, how am I going to get everything done in my life that I want to get done?

Really? Yes, at 6.

6 years old, and I thought, something's clearly wrong with me. Looking around at my friends and my cousins, my brothers and sisters, and I'm like, something's wrong. But I do think that, you know, there's— I've always had that kind of hustle mentality.

Yeah.

And it was definitely emphasized by my family.

Yeah, for sure. Makes sense. You also, I, you know, you're also a very optimistic person, very positive, right? You really are.

I think so.

But you obviously have tough times as well. I mean, we're human, and I know you're human. We have our rough times. Talk about that for a second. Like, how do you handle those days or those weeks or months or years even that you're— it's just a struggle, it's a battle. How do you kind of keep your head up in those situations?

I think it's really hard. I remember you know, like, I battled some depression, especially after I got divorced. And I was so lucky to have a mom that would just sit there and listen to me. And she probably listened to me cry 4 hours a day for 2 years. Yeah, you know, and being able to have her was so important in my life. And not everybody gets that. But if you can find a friend or a therapist or somebody to, to help you get through that, I just think it's so important to process your emotions and to help you kind of frame how you want to be and who you are. I remember, um, when I was divorced as well, I was— I'm going to a therapist every week, and I was in the middle of a rant, and it was my typical rant, and I remember, and I stopped in the middle of it, and I was like I'm done. I'm done talking about myself. I'm so tired of hearing myself rant. I'm done. Yeah, I got it all out.

I got it all out finally.

I got it all out finally. And I learned that I didn't want that to be my story anymore, you know? And so then I started focusing on other things. But I do think it's really important to process your emotions and to like let yourself feel things. And I am grateful that I feel pretty like positive about life, but I don't always, you know. And you have— I'm sure like you probably have people that you trust that you can just say your innermost feelings to.

Absolutely.

Um, my husband is that for me now, and we like to walk the dog every night and I'll just like dump on him, you know.

Yeah, buckle up, here we go, right?

Yep. And so that's, I think, just even having it. And my sister, another, is another one. I saw her on Tuesday and we both had had just a day and we're like, you go first. No, no, you go first. Yeah, that's great.

Well, you mentioned something, sorry, about the power of the story you were telling yourself. Obviously, I work with a lot of clients who have gone through divorce or they're currently going through it. And it's, it's, even if it's the right thing, it's a tough, as you well know, it's so hard. It is so hard. It's like, it's like going through a death.

It really is, right? In some ways it's worse than a death because at least for me, I felt so rejected that it was just, it was like, it's like they died, but then they're still there and it it just makes you feel worse, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So I agree with you, it's a tough time.

So obviously you got to a point where you were just done with this current story you were saying, you were just like, I'm done. What did the new story become? Like what were you starting to tell yourself about you? Do you remember?

That's a really good question and I'm trying to think about that. Because I think for me, this is the Beliefcast, right? So I'm okay to talk about my beliefs.

And absolutely, yeah, this is your story. Please do.

I'm a pretty religious person, and so, but, um, and I grew up a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, and, um, I always tried so hard to do everything perfect, right? And let's— like, it's so silly. It was a totally, like, losing battle because it's impossible. School. And I remember when I got divorced, it was literally like my whole entire life was a failure.

Yeah.

And yeah, like, I had no money, I was living in the basement with my parents, I had— I had failed in the one thing I wanted to succeed in. And, um, I just remember one day just feeling like God loved me, and I thought, wow, yeah, he still loves me. I screwed everything up and he still loves me. And, and, um, it would just open my world. I thought, wow, well, I've completely botched my original plan, so now what am I gonna do? What can I do now? And it really actually opened up a lot of Uh, opened up my mind a lot to think, you know, let me rethink through this. And some of the things I thought about trying to be perfect, trying to be good, trying to be right— I had to rethink a lot of that. And so it reframed my perspective, and I feel like that is the time when I really, like, truly became a Christian. So I think that that was a It was very meaningful to me. So that was kind of like the story that I started telling myself was different at that time.

Gotcha.

Because I was able to let go of the perfectionistic tendencies.

Yeah.

That hold a lot of us back, right?

Right, for sure.

And it doesn't have to be religion that allows you to like let go of that. However you can do it, right? But I do think that when you can let go of that and you think like, perfect is the enemy of good, or whatever that is.

I love that.

Yeah, you know, that you can start just going in a new direction.

I love that. Well, I love what you said too, where, you know, even though I made mistakes and maybe screwed some things up, God still loves me. And you had that, uh, that awareness, that aha moment, if you will, and it woke you up to like, oh, I'm still, I'm still good.

Yeah.

I'm fine even though this happened.

Yeah.

You know, the other thing that stood out, you know, I often share with my clients this truth. The most powerful force in the human psyche is the story you tell yourself about yourself.

Mm. So true.

And that's why I was so curious because, you know, going through what you did, really difficult obviously, but you changed the narrative about you. And I think knowing that you could lean on going, hey, you know, even though I'm not perfect, God still cares about me. You know?

Yeah. And I think, I think that is a really good one too. And I also think we set so many limiting beliefs on ourselves, right?

Oh yeah.

I think so. I think feeling like I'm okay even though I make mistakes, that was the first thing for me. Second thing for me was like, pain is pain, right? And it doesn't matter if it's, you experience it through divorce or addiction or death or whatever it is, like, pain is pain. And once you, once you really experience something like that to the level of, uh, like the death— like, I mean, I feel like kind of bad saying this, but like, like, like, it was really bad. Like, my— the pain and like my depression was really bad. And so But, and so once you experience that, like, you just want everyone to feel better, you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't matter what anyone did, doesn't matter what— you just want everyone to feel better. And you can empathize a lot better because you can understand, even if your pain is different from their pain, you can understand what that feels like, and you can try to help a little bit, you know. So I think that was the second thing for me, Jack, kind of helped reframe the story a little bit. And then I think the third thing is like, why? Like, if you can just kind of like say to yourself, like, why not me? So many of us are like, oh, I could never do that, you know? But why not?

Yeah, but why not?

Why not? You know? And I really believe I had an advantage because my dad always told me that I could do anything I wanted. That was my advantage, right? Because I was too little to believe anything else. Yeah, than what he told me, you know, and I'm very, very grateful for that. And then I had a mom who helped me do it, you know. She's like, well, if you really want to learn how to play the violin and be in the shows, you're gonna have to take some lessons.

I had to put in some work here, Amy.

I'm gonna have to put some work in, you know. So I think, like, I don't know, I think that those have really contributed to, to help— helping you tell— helping people tell a positive story about themselves.

Yeah.

And then also, even if you don't believe that you're worthy, even if you don't believe that you deserve, um, if you can surround yourself with people who love you, who are positive influences, like, even if your family is not that, you can find friends that are— will support you. And, uh, you know, a group that will support you or whatever, like get yourself in the position where you're, you're feeling positive vibes from other people and you can give positive vibes. I feel like that's— that can help you change your story.

Yeah, I love that. Well said. Thank you for sharing that. Well, so you kind of go from, you know, you go through this really tough divorce and, you know, your life's kind of feel like it's going in the wrong direction, but now here you are, you're the CMO of Fullcast. And if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong, you've helped lead 34 million, 34 million female-led seed round for Fulcast. Did I say that right?

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. And wow.

Thank you.

Right. And I know you're an advocate for women and helping them and, you know, because obviously look what you've done. But to go from that to this.

Well, I have to give credit where credit is due. Ryan Westwood did the lion's share of that.

Yeah.

But I did have a lot of friends who are women want to participate. And not— women are not always given the opportunity to participate in some of the best deals and some of the best rounds. And so I feel very grateful that, um, that we're able to start participating a little bit more fully. In the business community. Yeah, I think that it's a real opportunity for us now to be able to take a stand. And even, you know, some people look at, um, the, uh, the current political environment and the anti-woke, uh, stuff that they're, you know, and people see that as a negative toward women. I don't see it that way because I, I believe fully and have always believed that, that all women needed was a fair shake. They didn't need— like, we don't need special treatment, we just need a fair shake.

Exactly.

And so I actually think that this could be a very great opportunity for women in business because there is not the mandate to prioritize or tokenize women. And I think that that's what's been happening a little bit in the business community where You know, a lot of us are working as hard as we possibly can and doing, doing a lot of good, and yet oftentimes we're tokenized and, oh well, she just got that because she's a woman in business and they had a quota to fill.

And yep, you know, they automatically just assume that because of the culture and what have you.

I think that there's a lot of that.

Yeah.

So, um, I do think that's an opportunity for us.

No, I love that. Again, it goes back to, you know, you're, you're the hustler and you really, you really work hard and you really do command the room, honestly, when you come into it. And I, I must— so talk a little bit more about, you know, what, what your, I guess, goal is in your mind with Fulcast, and where do you see it going, and what do you want to, to accomplish, especially with women?

With women?

Yeah.

Thank you for asking. This is a really great question. So, um, with Fulcast, there is a lot of opportunity within the sales performance management market. And this is—

I want to take a moment to express my heartfelt gratitude to the incredible sponsors of the Believecast podcast. First, Craig from Craig Swapp and Associates. If you need an attorney, he's your guy. Trustworthy, compassionate, always there when you need him most. Next, Wasatch Recovery, the greatest university on the planet. Transforming lives one day at a time. Sandy from Minky Couture, the creative genius behind the most comfortable blanket you'll ever wrap yourself in. Comfort like no other. Special thanks to the award-winning pianist Paul Cardall for his beautiful music that brings inspiration to every episode.

This is getting kind of technical, but like, you know, marketing and sales and revenue operations, They're all in customer success, are all kind of siloed in their own little things, right? And so between marketing and sales, there can be so much pain and chaos in between there, right? And you hear these stories about marketing and sales leaders hating each other and you like, and the emotions are real, right?

Sure.

The emotions are real. There's a lot of frustration. And the opportunity that we have here in front of us at Fulcast is to help smooth it out, to streamline it, to provide a platform where everything from the first lead to the end result and from a customer success output is, is smooth and visible and transparent and easy. And a lot of people don't really think about the emotional impact of that.

Yeah.

But there's great emotional impact, and for— and a lot of people's main ambitions, um, for Fullcast are, are, are wonderful. It's to grow the company, it's to provide opportunities for especially our women investors to get 10x on their money, to be able to provide a solution that from end to end, from plan to pay, gives you the visibility, the transparency, the automation that you need. For me, I'm so excited for the day when marketing and sales leaders, like I feel so lucky to work with the sales leader that I have. His name's Pete Shelton and he's just absolutely phenomenal. But like that could become the norm for everyone. You know, where there, you know, you reduce the misconceptions, you reduce the blaming, you reduce, you know, and you just look at everything transparently in business and you go and have a great day at work.

Yeah.

That's what I want. I want for everyone to go to work and have a great day.

Right? Hey, I love that. That's, I'm always looking forward to that here. You know, I want to have a great day.

That's right.

No, I love it. I think your work there is amazing. And I know you haven't been there for very long, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, just a little over a year.

Yeah. So, and I'm sure you guys have big plans and things like that. And You know, is there anything else that you're working on? I know this is your baby right now, but is there other stuff that you have on your mind that you're working on on the side even? Or— Well, I just kind of—

I have had a really fun time with my kids this year because my son's getting his master's degree and my daughter just graduated from BYU. My second daughter, she just graduated from high school. My fourth, Jenny, she is going to be a senior. And my youngest Haley just graduated from 8th grade. So we just had a really big year.

Wow, you got the wide range there. It was a wide range, and my son just got engaged.

And anyway, so it's been a really great year. And then Jeff and I are, are, um, going to have our 20th anniversary.

Congratulations. I appreciate that.

It's, it's awesome, and I love it. And it's a— I feel very, very blessed to have the family support, you know.

Yeah, you know what I love about your story too is that despite the hard things, you prevailed. And it reminds all of us the power of the human spirit. Like, we are powerful and we can go through some really tough things. And, you know, and as we know, and we have family members and friends, and we see stories of people who have gone through some of the most horrific things, but to watch them rise above it— and everyone's challenges are relative, right? They're just— your challenge Your challenges were your challenges, mine are mine, and we might look at them differently, but they're the mountain we had to climb.

That's right.

Right?

That's right.

And to see you do that and to, to rise above and to be where you're at now, where 20 years in marriage successfully and amazing kids who are all doing good things, it sounds like. Thank you. You've got an amazing job. You've done some amazing things in helping people, especially women.

Thank you.

I mean, that's gotta feel pretty good.

It's— it feels wonderful to have committed to do things the right way.

Yeah.

Um, be honest, work hard, lead with love. Um, and I do feel very, very fortunate. And I love what you said about Everybody has their own mountain to climb, right? A lot of people go through what I go through, what I went through. I'm not like— everybody goes through stuff. Sure, you know.

Yeah.

And it was really hard for me, but life's hard for everybody, you know. And I think that the more that we can give each other grace and help each other, I think the better off we're all going to be. You know, and my goal is that I can somehow give back in some way all of the great help that I've been given along the way. I'm so grateful for like key people who came to my life in just the right time, you know.

Yeah.

And, and helped me through a challenge and made me feel like I was worth something, you know. I'm super grateful for that. Um, there was one really like flashbulb moment that I had a couple of years ago, and again, getting religious, but, um, I was in the car working on a video screen, and like I just had my background on, so nobody knew I was in the car. So there was this— I was in a parking lot in Salt Lake City, right? And I saw this and I heard this knock on my window in the car, and I look over and there's this guy that's like knocking on my window. And I was like, he looked like kind of distressed. And so I was like, okay guys, uh, total transparency, I'm in a car, I'm gonna be back in a minute, someone's knocking on my window, right? And so, so I rolled down the window and I'm like, are you doing okay? Like, what, what's the problem? And he goes, 'Can I have $75 because I need a hotel room tonight and my mom's going to Venmo me some money, but she can't do it until tomorrow and I have nowhere to sleep tonight.' And, and I was like, 'Sure, no problem.' And he immediately burst into tears and he said, 'Why do I even doubt? I was over in the corner and I prayed that God would help me and the The first person I came to gave me the money I needed to sleep. Wow, isn't that amazing?

That is amazing.

And it wasn't like I had some like big revelation or anything to— oh, you should give this person money. I just— I did it because it was the right thing to do, right?

Right.

And I felt super grateful. That's— that for me was more impactful than it was for him because I was like, my gosh, like, yeah, I hope that God trusts me enough that I can help when I can help, you know what I mean?

Totally. Well, it's as if God sent him to you knowing that God knew that you would give the money.

I hope that's what— I hope that's what it was, you know. I hope—

no, I think so.

I want to be trusted to be able— that's how I want to— that's how I feel. I'm like, I just feel so grateful that I've been given so many blessings in my life that I hope I can be trusted.

Yeah, I think you are.

Oh, thank you.

I really do. Thank you. No, that's just who you are. Well, I wanted to share something with you. I've shared it a few times, but I want to get your thoughts on it. Okay. And it has to do with kind of like you mentioned, there's these key people that showed up right when they needed to and go back to even when you were going through the maybe the darkest time of your life. Right. So I'm going to share this with you. It's by a guy named Alan Watts. It's kind of long, not too long, but I want to share with you and I want to hear your thoughts. Is that okay?

I love that.

Yeah. Here it goes. It's titled "Isn't It Curious?" So, isn't it curious that the moment you begin to grow, the people around you begin to vanish? But when you were reckless, lost in the noise of indulgence, you were never alone. But now, as you strive for something more, silence. You see, human beings cling to familiarity, not because it's good, not because it's right, but simply because it's known. And when you begin to change, When you step beyond the version they once knew, it unsettles them. Most friendships aren't built on deep connection, but shared habits. If you drink, they drink. If they complain— if you complain, they complain. If you fear, they fear. Misery, after all, loves company. But the moment you no longer entertain the drama, the gossip, the self-destruction, the crowd thins. Not because they dislike you, but because they do not know you anymore. And truthfully, they do not wish to. So what will it be? To stay the same, surrounded but stagnant, or to walk alone for a time and discover the rare few who resonate with your higher self? Because the irony is, the loneliest path is often the only one that leads to true belonging.

That is so beautiful, right? Wow.

Yeah. And I—

so true.

I thought of this this morning. I was like, what could I share with Amy? And I just felt really strongly to share that you, and I just love to hear your take on that.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

I don't think you know how impactful that particular story is to me today. That is just absolutely beautiful and, and so meaningful. Thank you.

You are so welcome. Yeah, I, I love that, and I, I came across it, I don't know, a couple months ago, and I was like, what? And it was a time when I needed to hear it. I was like, oh my goodness, it was so impactful to me as well.

It's amazing, right? There is a— there was an inaugural speech that Nelson Mandela gave a couple of decades ago, and it's become very popular. And, and I'm going— again, not going to quote it correctly, but it's very similar, um, where that talks about where people will say to you, who are you to think that you're wonderful, beautiful, you know, valuable? But really, who are you not Like, how, how can you not think that? Yeah, you know, like, God made you the way that he made you and, and made you beautiful and perfect and wonderful. And, and, and to believe that is the truth, you know, that's the truth.

Yeah.

And to not— the familiarity and based on shared habits, I think that is so poignant and real. And I think that a lot of us fall into that trap because We want to be liked. We want to be approved of.

We do.

We want to, you know, I think— I'm right, don't we all? Most of us anyway. I do.

We do. No, I, I'm— we're all there, I think.

And I think that that is, um, that path of self-reflection and evolution is a, is a lonely one, and it's the only one, and, and you can't take it with anybody.

Yeah.

It has to be an— it has to be a lone path for you.

Yeah. And I would imagine when you were going through that dark time, you felt alone until you had that moment of like, you know what, God still actually loves me even though I've gone through this. Like, that one person was God at that moment, right?

Absolutely. And it was, it was really hard because like, like it happens with a lot of people, you know, a lot of times people don't want to get involved, they don't want to pick sides, and so they withdraw. And it makes that pain that you experience going through that separation more poignant because you've not just lost your life partner, or your spouse, you've lost all your friends too.

Yeah.

You know, and then families take sides and so it just causes a lot of havoc, but I really love that. And I really do think that that path to really knowing who you are, and that path to self, you know, evolution and growth has to be taken by yourself.

Yeah, well said. Thank you.

Thank you. That was a really great quote.

Thank you. Um, I want to ask you, if there's someone listening to you right now who's in a dark place and they're struggling and they're lost and they've tuned into this episode to listen to Amy, what would you tell that person right now?

Oh, I would say you're not alone. People who you might not think are experiencing exactly what you're experiencing and have felt exactly as you have felt. And it doesn't matter what you've done. It doesn't matter if, if you are 100% entirely to blame for your pain. You're beautiful and wonderful and you're worth it and you are so valuable. And you need to believe it. You need to believe that about yourself because that's the first step on the way to recovering from the pain that you're experiencing or any habits that you, that you have that aren't, are not like going to be conducive to you being happy in the future.

Yeah. Wow. Beautifully said. And I, I, that, that touched me too, seriously. And I think anyone listening who is struggling, that's, those are some really powerful words. So I appreciate you sharing that. Um, I, if, if someone wants to reach out to you and get to know you better and, you know, learn more about what you're doing and, and understand better with, uh, you know, all the good you've done, what would be the best way for them to do that?

Thank you for, thanks for asking. Well, um, I'm very active on Facebook. And on LinkedIn. Yeah. And I'm really good at responding to messages, so you could just find me there and you can have a chat. Um, I remember, uh, going through— like, after I went through a divorce, um, I compiled a book with a, a lot of women who had— were going through it with me too. And one woman reached out and said that that she put the book on her bedside every night, and that was how she coped and how she was like, like, you know, how she survived. And it made me feel so grateful. Yeah, that, you know, when we, when we reach out to each other, when we communicate, when we share our experiences with each other The burden is lifted by all of us, right? By sharing. And so if, if anyone would be, you know, interested in, in sharing that with me, I would definitely be listening here.

I love that. Yeah, thank you. I'll put those links in the show notes so people can click right to you and get to you.

Thank you.

Um, thank you for being here. Honestly, I, I wish we could talk longer. I could Talk to you all day.

Me too. I love chatting with you.

Yeah, this has been great. And I always say this, when I do a podcast like this in an episode, in an interview, when it feels like it went 5 minutes, I'm like, I know it was a great episode, a great interview, because it feels like we've been talking just for 5 minutes.

It really does. I'm like, oh, let's do it. Joe, do you have another hour?

I know. I know. No, it's wonderful. And again, I've admired you from the first time I met you, and I've been following you ever since. I just, I had this, just this feeling I'm going to reach out to her and see if she'd come on my show.

So grateful.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for having me. I, I just feel so like blessed to be here and I feel like you've really taught me some lessons that I needed to learn today. Thank you.

Well, awesome. Thank you, Amy. Well, there you go, folks. Amy Cook, uh, please reach out to her if you want to know more about what she's doing. Follow her on Facebook and LinkedIn. Again, thanks for tuning in. Again, thanks to my sponsors. I couldn't do this without you guys. I can't believe I've been doing this for 8 years. It's kind of crazy, but I wouldn't be able to do it if the people weren't listening. You know, it started with one listener, it was my wife, and now we're coming up on 600,000, and it just blows my mind. It's so cool. So thank you guys, I love you so much. And Amy, one last thank you to you. Thanks for being here.

Thank you for having me.

You bet. Take care, everyone.