The Riveter - Amy Nelson

And I'm like, hey, what's up? Hello. Is that Fetty Wap? I think that might be Fetty Wap. Oh, man, what a. Oh, wow. What a classic. This thing's gone off the rails already. I have this minute to fill. At the beginning, it'd be great if you just rated and reviewed the podcast. People say, billy, how do you market the podcast? I say, I don't really. It's mostly word of mouth because my wonderful listeners. But it'd be really great if you rated, reviewed, and maybe told a friend. Maybe told, like five friends. That's all I have to say. I hope you enjoy the podcast. We had a great conversation with Amy from the Riveter. Enjoy. Thanks for listening as always. Love you all. Music, music, music, music, music.

There you need to get into a way that you're forcing the momentum upon yourself, if that makes sense. Because you can kind of sit and think about a business idea for a really long time while you're working your other job, while you're taking care of your kids and all these things. And so I said to myself, if I do this pitch competition, win or lose, at least I will put everything together in a place and really flesh this idea out.

Welcome, everybody, to the Making the Brand podcast. My name is Billy Draper. I work in early stage venture capital. And on this show, we're going to be talking about brands. We'll talk to founders and leaders of growing consumer companies that are finding ways to stand out, differentiate, and delight their customers. On today's show, we have Amy Nelson, founder and CEO of the Riveter. She teaches us about community building and the first steps to starting a business. So today on the show, we have a very special guest. We have Amy Nelson, the founder and CEO of the Riveter. Amy, thank you so much for coming on.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

So first off, I always like to start off by simply asking, what is your company? What is the Riveter?

Yeah, absolutely. So the Riveter is a modern union of working women. We have workspaces, activation spaces, experience and education.

So what? So you have. So people rent a space.

So really the Riveter is a community. So we have thousands of members across the country who come to the Riveter for work, for experiences, for education. We have Riveters across the country. We have 10 spaces, and there's a lot going on in them.

Is there a primary use or is it pretty sort of divided across the use cases?

It's really divided across the use cases. So we have members who do just work in our spaces. And then we have members that are recurring members who pay every month and who join us just for our experiences and education. And then we have digital members as well.

What do the digital members get?

Yeah. So this year the Riveter launched a content platform where we're sharing content about working women and issues that are relevant to working women today.

Okay, so you have 10 locations. So you started, as I understood it, you started as sort of a WeWork esque concept, but now I'm. Now I'm caught up and it's more than that. So you're building more of an experience. And how do you. So several people do use it as an everyday office, right?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting. Right. So we see ourselves as really a new category with community as a service. And I think it's interesting. When we started with the physical spaces, people really slotted us into the co working category very quickly. But from the beginning we've had members who do not work in our spaces. So from the beginning we've had this more expansive concept and we do have a lot of members who come for the workspace. To answer the question.

Yeah, yeah. Is there a different membership tier for people who don't use it for work? Is there sort of like four days a month versus 30 days a month?

So, no, we have a membership that has nothing to do with work. It's called the Riveter Ally. And it's simply for people who want to be part of this collective that we've created and believe that work should look different for women. And they experience our programming. We have programming every single day and across all of our spaces in the United States.

And they can come as much as

they want to the programming. Yes, it's like an all access pass to the experiences.

Okay, what's an example of awesome programming you've done recently?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, one we have coming up is we're doing a summit in New York where we have Stacey Abrams, Robin Roberts, Abby Wambach and dozens of other speakers talking about women building the future of work. Recently we've had Maria Shriver come speak with our community in Los Angeles about her career and her pivots as a journalist, as an author, as a change maker. We've had, interestingly, in the past couple of weeks, we've had six presidential candidates come through our spaces to talk to our community about what policies they believe in and are pushing forward that will better the scenario for women and work in America. And then we do Lots of kind of everyday programming around things like Social Media 101, how to put together financial projections for your business. We have office hours with venture capital investors. So lots of different examples.

And is the membership female only or is it everyone? All shapes and sizes.

All shapes and sizes. So the Riveter, our tagline, is built by women for everyone. And we do truly mean that. It's not just something we say. Our membership today is about 30% men. So it's important to us that that is part of what we're doing. And we believe that if we do want to change the future of work for women, it's incredibly important that all genders are on board with that discussion.

Okay, so now backtracking a little bit. How did you. What were you doing before? And how did you decide to start the Riveter?

Yeah, absolutely. So I was a lawyer for a decade, so I went to law school in New York, practiced as a litigator in New York and in Seattle, and I was also involved in politics. So from a young age, I've been involved in that side of the world. I interned at the Ohio State House when I was a high schooler. I worked for Jimmy Carter's the Carter center when I was in college and after. And then through my 20s and 30s, I raised money for candidates I cared about. And for me, you know, I really thought I would be a lawyer forever when I went to law school. But when I became a mother, I felt the world kind of shift underneath my feet. It was actually when I was pregnant with my first daughter and I told my colleagues I'd be having a baby. I felt like the professional world's perspective and perception of me just changed on a dime. And it was weird because I didn't really feel any different, but I got really different questions about how I wanted to work and what I wanted to work on. And. And I don't think that my experience was unique. I mean, we still live in a world where, like, almost half of women who have college degrees off ramp after they have kids. And so I started looking around and saying, well, where are mothers in senior positions above me? Where are peers of mine that are mothers? And I realized pretty quickly that I didn't see many of them. And I think there are a lot of reasons behind it and systemic issues that we need to work on. So I started thinking about what that meant for me. Right. And did I want to stay in a world where I didn't really see a path up because I didn't see people like me running the companies around me or running the law firms. And so I started trying to talk to other women who'd been in my shoes, who'd had kids, who's changed careers. And as part of that thought of starting a small business, really thought of starting my own law firm. And on that path, I started going and taking classes on, like, how to write a business plan. And those classes were in coworking spaces. And it was in those coworking spaces where I went to classes that I started looking around and thinking, I am also not seeing myself in this place and in this community. Because the coworking spaces I went to were both dominated in terms of male members, but then also just kind of the amenities. Like, it was, you know, in one co working space. It was beanbag chairs, kegs, ping pong, video games, like, all in one room.

Right.

And so I just really couldn't find a community of working women that. That I wanted to learn from and learn with. And so instead of starting a law firm, I thought perhaps the thing to do would be to start that membership network, that community of women.

And this was in 2017?

Yes. I left lawyering in 2017. So it has been a quick journey to where we are today.

Yeah. That's incredible. Good for you. And how. Okay, so you go from this class and you're thinking, okay, I'm gonna totally sort of shift my thinking. And I think this is a much better opportunity for where I want to be and for what I want to build. How do you go from that to actually taking it on?

Yeah. So one of the things I did, which I think is super helpful and I would recommend to anybody, if they have a business idea, is that I entered a pitch competition. And I did it because I started thinking about the idea. But there's this. You need to get into a way that you're forcing the momentum upon yourself, if that makes sense. Because you can kind of sit and think about a business idea for a really long time while you're working your other job, while you're taking care of your kids and all these things. And so I said to myself, well, if I do this pitch competition, win or lose, at least I will put everything together in a place and really flesh this idea out. And through that pitch competition, I wrote a business plan. I hired someone to help me with financial projections. I put together a pitch deck, and I learned to talk about my idea in a really succinct way. And that process was over two months. And then I did the pitch competition and won. And that really Kind of put me on the path to thinking, okay, maybe this idea does have legs. And that's when I quit my job and took the leap.

It's also really powerful to find the flaws early. And I think going and just going straight into the pitch is so helpful because you're like, okay, now I know the hundred questions that people are going to ask me and I have answers to all of them.

It's so true. And the thing is, like, the more feedback you get on your early idea, and even today I seek feedback constantly. But the more feedback you get, the more you learn how to tell the story to get past the objections before they even arise. And I think that's incredibly important too.

Absolutely. I talk on this podcast, but also to entrepreneurs in general, and I think stealth mode is such a silly idea. It's like, oh, you're just losing customer feedback all the time in your daily life by trying to protect this idea. And I think it's so important to just bounce it off of everyone because they could be customers and they could refer you to customers they could give you feedback on. You might have a big blank spot that you're missing, a big blind spot. But I think, yeah, and so many startups just think stealth mode, the idea is so important, but really, I think that's not always the case. And I think that execution is important and the way you execute is figure out what people want and how to get there.

Yep. Yeah. And you can do really informal customer research from the minute you have an idea. Right. By talking to people you know or people you don't know. One of the other things that I did early on was I told everybody about my idea. And not only did I get a lot of feedback on kind of how we should shape the community and what we should offer, but I also got really important connections out of it. My very first investor was the father of one of my two year old daughter's preschool classmates. And he ended up on my cap table because I was talking to his wife about my idea and she said, oh, you should talk to my husband. He's a student entrepreneur. I had no idea that he was a serial entrepreneur. And you just don't know who lives next door to you or who you'll meet at the coffee shop. And so if you're not talking about your idea, you're going to miss out on those opportunities.

Right. And then that person turns into three more people who are interested or could be customers.

Oh, yeah, no, that investor was a $25,000 check. But he connected me to $250,000.

There it is.

Right?

Yes.

That's the thing. It's exactly what happened.

And especially in this kind of business where it's like everyone could be a customer. Right. This applies to everyone. That's like a lot of the value of the business you're building.

Yes.

And where are you based?

So I am based in Seattle.

Okay.

I've been living in Seattle since 2012 when my husband joined a small startup called Amazon.

Heard of it.

And so we live in Seattle and there are Riveter locations in Seattle and Bellevue, but also in Los Angeles, Portland, Denver, Minneapolis, Austin and Dallas. So really a large part of the country.

What are the, what are the sort of metrics of success you look at? What are the things you think about where. Obviously occupancy is probably a big piece of the business, but what are the, what are the indicators where you feel like this is something really special, let's keep growing this, let's start opening new locations.

Yeah, I mean, we look, we do, you know, obviously our unit economics are incredibly important and I'm glad that they have always been important to us because I think in the current climate that will be super important as we grow. And then also our membership growth and our membership retention. So our members are everything. They're our entire brand and movement. And so how they interact with us, how they stay with us, why they stay with us, all of those things are really important and also go beyond the members who use us for workspace. So in the broader membership context, we're looking at our acquisition of digital members who live all across the country. And one of the reasons that's important and interesting is our broader digital membership will someday tell us where to build our physical spaces. And then in terms of, we also look at the success our members are having. So we ask our members, what are your goals and how can we help? So we have a lot of incredible startups that have started as an idea at the Riveter and grown. One is named Lana Learn and they just launched the other week, which is really exciting. And that happens all across the country.

Do you. So are you thinking about getting into sort of value added services? Would you ever start investing in businesses that are there or providing accounting for them or doing anything like that?

I think there are tons of opportunities there. I mean, we do kind of add value with our services already through the office hours we offer with different kinds of experts. So I mentioned we have venture capital office hours, but we also have diversity, equity and inclusion office hours that a lot of Corporate employees attend and we're starting to have office hours with attorneys. So kind of looping our members into those ancillary services.

Do you do enterprise deals as of now? Do you do, like a lot of big companies have remote workforces. Do you ever go to them and say, hey, you should get four rooms or you should get four desks here because you have a lot of employees that want to work here?

Yes, we do. And I will say I think it's important to note here that in terms of our physical workspace, we have a really different model than a place. For example, like WeWork. So WeWork is about 90% private offices. So you go in and I'm sure you've been in a WeWork and it is, I think their core business model is powerful in many ways. But it's, you know, it's a number of offices at the Riveter because we think of women first we looked at how women work and almost like 80% of women who own companies work alone. And so we said, what kind of a space would these women want? And we lean toward providing more open and flexible space. Most of our members join us not every day for eight or nine hours a day, but a few days a week for two or three or four hours. And so we have about 30% of our space divided up as offices and the rest is open, flexible space. And then within that open, flexible space we can use it in many different ways. So we have the co working space during the day and then we also have the experiences, events and programming and we also do retail pop ups with really cool female founded businesses. So we're really just trying to find different ways to integrate the women owned ecosystem into the Riveter.

And how did you come up with the name? I guess it's some, it's, you know, I can make assumptions, but I want to hear your story.

You'll be right about your assumptions. So the Riveter is named after Rosie the Riveter.

Right.

And so Rosie is kind of an iconic American figure. During World War II, when most men of working age were fighting abroad, the government needed women to go to work. And so they put together a propaganda campaign asking women to show up in the factories, to build the ships, to build the guns, to build the tanks. And women did. And I look at that time as a really interesting period in American history because women made up almost half or the majority or slightly the majority of the workforce for a few years. And I think that women are in the same position today by the numbers. Right. We're almost half the workforce. We're 40% of primary breadwinners in America right now, and yet we don't have the power to reflect our standing. And I would like us to. I mean, I think there's a world where women do define the workforce again, like they did during World War II.

Yeah, I mean, it's a really great name. I think it's easy to remember. It gives you a little bit of the sense of what you're building and. Yeah, I don't know. I think.

Thank you.

Yeah, I think it works.

I appreciate it.

How do you like. Two questions. Yeah. First, because we were talking about it before. How do you like Seattle as a sort of startup community?

Seattle's fascinating. I think the startup community is ramping up in a really exciting way right now. We have a lot more capital in the city than we've had before. And I think that's interesting because for a long time there wasn't a lot of venture in Seattle, but now we have more and it's a really supportive ecosystem because it is a somewhat of a smaller city compared to New York or la. There's just a ton of support in terms of talking to VCs, talking to angel investors, talking to other founders who've built really powerful companies. I have access to so many different founders in Seattle to say, what did you do right? What did you do wrong? What's your advice? And I think that's super important.

Yeah, Seattle is just a delightful place and I think the start. I think there are a lot of. For a lot of reasons, people are going to keep moving there or spinning off from the Amazons and Microsofts of the world and starting things. And I think as a startup community, it's just going to get stronger and stronger. You know, it's. People always think of Seattle as like, oh, it always rains there. But I feel like it's just really. It's like. It's like San Francisco with. With worse marketing because San Francisco has like 7 less rain days than Seattle. It's not like a. It's not like you go there and it's just so funny, raining and gloomy every day. I've. I don't know, I guess it is very seasonal and it is cloudy a lot of the time. But it's just a delightful place and I'm seeing more and more great companies out there.

Yeah, it is an amazing place and I'm happy to get to live there. One of the things that is really interesting though, that I didn't know. So I think I was the sixth woman in Washington state to ever raise over $20 million. So it's a newer place for female founders who are scaling quickly with venture and that's interesting and I hope it changes.

Do you know what you were nationally? Because I bet that's still a sort of sadly small number.

I know, I hope I'm not one of few, but it is still a small community.

Yeah. Well, you'll be at the top of the next list. Maybe whatever. The first to raise a bajillion dollars or first to. No, no, no, you don't want to be on that list first.

I don't want to be on that list.

First to build a bajillion dollar company.

That's right. That's the list we want to be on.

Do you. Who was your first hire or employee or did you bring on a partner?

So my first employee is actually still with us. She was a mother who had taken a 14 year break from the workforce to raise her three daughters and came back to join us on a part time basis when we opened our first location.

And what was the role when you. Because I always think about an entrepreneur when they're starting their business, they're like, I need to fill this specific job. Like I can't do this. And what. So what did she do?

She ran the front desk. Because you know, we were. I was building a physical space and I needed someone to really help do the day to day operations. So you know, my background is as a lawyer and I didn't have business experience. And when I look back to how we started this, I didn't spend a dollar on marketing for the first 18 months.

Wow.

Which is an interesting thing. Right. So we really leaned into kind of community organizing principles with a team of how do we go out in a very kind of hand to hand way and let people know about what we're doing, why we're doing it and why they should be there. So when I launched in Seattle, I built a very basic Excel spreadsheet of all the different organizations in Seattle that touched women in some way. And that was everything from the Junior League to women in Tech to crew, which is commercial real estate women. And I went out to all those different organizations. I sat down and had coffee with someone from the organization, told them what we were doing and invited them to use the riveter in some way that would be beneficial to them and that built a funnel. And I think it's interesting because I think as a culture we've moved really quickly into the idea that like we need to spend a lot of money on acquisition digitally and all of these things. I think there's still a ton to be done in terms of just meeting the community around you in a very organic way and it's also a very cost efficient way.

Yeah, it's almost like people don't want to talk to each other anymore. Like this goes back to our slightly earlier conversation. I think there was someone else I talked to. I think it was Ollie or Barkbox. It was one of these companies in the pet space and they said their early customers, they like went out in Central park and like talked to dog owners and like people don't do that stuff enough, right?

Totally.

Who do you think you know, who do you think is going to be using your space? Oh, let's go call them and let's have a conversation with them and then that'll inform so many of your product and in your case your space decisions. And I bet that was so valuable for you early days. And I bet they're all still customers of yours.

Yes, they are. So it's pretty amazing that they've been with us for this whole journey.

Yeah, they feel like they helped you build it.

I'm sure they do and they did. Right. Like that's a very real thing. They did help me build it and so I'm really grateful for those first customers that we had.

What are you're still early days, although you've done a lot within in a short amount of time. What are some of the of the big challenges you faced sort of in the early going or continue to face?

There are so many. I think the hardest thing going back to the first person I hired, Kirsten. Building a team is really hard, especially when you're scaling quickly and especially when you're distributed. So I've got all of these different challenges in team building and that's a constant pressure. Especially Seattle has an incredibly low unemployment rate right now. So there is. It's hard to compete for talent and we're still a series A startup so it's hard to compete with like the Amazons or Facebooks of the world. So I think building team is difficult. It's also, you know, it's been somewhat difficult to build a consumer facing brand from Seattle because Seattle isn't a media market and I didn't know that when I started that like that I, that it would be easier if I were in a media market. Although that seems in hindsight like something that should have been very obvious to me. And so it's been hard to Kind of get the national press to pay attention to us. And press isn't great for just the sake of itself, but it helps with brand awareness and growth. It helps create a funnel in and of itself. So we've really had to kind of find different ways to get into the conversation, you know, the national conversation. So that's part of it, too.

And when you. When you put up shingles in a few different cities, did that start to help the press conversations?

Yes, it did. It did. I think at a certain point, you become so noisy that people can't ignore what you're doing and what you're building, and so they invite you to be part of their conversation. And since in the past year, you know, we've really seen our profile gain momentum across the country, which is great because it just helps us build faster, and that's what we want to do. I mean, I think I'm very connected to the mission behind this and my. Why? And I think that the cause is really urgent, that we need to change the paradigm for working women in America. And so we want to build and move fast for that reason so that we can make change happen.

And how are you doing the location scouting? How are you picking locations when you do move into a city you're not as familiar with?

Yeah, absolutely. So we spend a lot of time getting familiar with the city, I think is the first. Is the first answer. We have a very specific way that we think about where we want to be. And one of those things that we really consider is we want to be part of a community that already exists. We want to open spaces where people live, where they spend time. We do not find ourselves often right in a downtown area. Actually, we aren't in any downtown area in any of our cities. We're kind of slightly outside the urban core in neighborhoods where people spend more of their life. So that's a big part of it. And then we also are looking for spaces in our model of thinking about our real estate play as being real estate light. So we don't go in and engage in extensive tenant improvements, which means if you're not in the real estate world, tenant improvement means, like, when you go in and you build more offices and put up walls and remodel everything. We like to go into spaces that we can really take as they are as much as possible and make it riveter.

Yeah, that's a great cost savings. That probably allows for a lot of your growth also.

It does, Yep.

Yeah.

I'd like to think we're very efficient with Our capital. So that's how we look at things.

Yeah, I think a lot of brick and mortar startup companies sort of spend the first nine to 12 months building out their first location of whatever it is they want to build. And that could, I don't know, has varying results, I guess.

Yes. And it's, I mean, one result is that it takes a lot of time. Right. And so if you want to move quickly, that path is hard.

How big is your team now?

We are 80 people.

And how many are in Seattle?

40.

Okay. And the rest are managing the offices at the other places?

No, mostly people are working in the spaces who are around the country, but we do have some hires that work on, you know, broader picture issues. So we have our head of partnerships, she lives in Los Angeles. We just brought in someone in New York. We have an engineer in Chicago. I mean, I think I'm a believer that you kind of should think more broadly if you find the best talent. And because we're distributed by the nature of what we do, I believe we can also be distributed in how we work as a, as a kind of remote corporate headquarters.

So you've gone from zero to 10 locations in two years. Do you have a, are you, are you sort of letting that simmer for a bit or are you continuing to push forward?

So we'll push forward more locations next year, but right now we're, you know, we opened, we doubled our footprint in a six month period. So we're working on kind of, and we're working on, you know, building the digital community as well right now. And then we'll get back to building more physical spaces next year. But I also think we think there's a right time of year to open physical spaces for us. And since we're not like in a land grab, we like to lean into kind of opening at the best time of year for us and for our community. And that is not right now.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, you gotta make sure everyone's happy at the 10 and then go to the 15. And now that you are at scale, are you starting to have to face some of those marketing challenges? Are you starting to test some digital stuff or are you still finding ways to do boots on the ground?

So we test digital stuff, but I think we are really focused digitally on our content. So we launched kind of this media arm which I mentioned, and we've been working with really amazing female writers from across the country who work for publications from the New York Times to the Washington Post and cnn. And so focusing on growing our community through sharing content about issues that are important to us rather than just doing like Facebook ads and.

Yeah, and your events probably pull some content as well. And that's very smart.

It's like a flywheel because we can do the events in our spaces and then we can share content from those events, like written articles that talk about the event or talk about issues discussed at the event or video. So it's a really interesting thing to think about how our in real life experiences can be shared digitally.

And has the entrepreneurial journey so far met your expectations? What has been different? What has been what you expected?

I mean, I don't think I, I don't think I knew what to expect. It is the hardest thing I've ever done and it is also the most rewarding thing I've ever done. I think. And I mean that in my professional career because I should caveat that I have four children and they are amazing and that has also been an incredible part of my life. But just professionally, it's just, I don't like, I had no exposure to the startup world. I didn't have any friends who'd started scalable companies. And so it was very new to me and there's so many steps to it. Like when I go back and I talk to people who are thinking about starting a company, I think the thing I talk about the most is that initial decision and when you make a decision to start a company, the type of company and whether you take investment, because if you take investment, you're walking through a one way door like you're in the room and you can't leave. You can't leave when it's hard. You can't leave when you're working at midnight, you can't leave on the weekends or the holidays. Like you're there. And that is, it's a huge commitment. It's a ton of responsibility. And now, you know, I have 80 people who are amazing that I get to work with every day, but who rely on me for a paycheck and healthcare and they have families and like that's just, it's a lot, right? Like it's a lot to think about that I never processed before I started the company.

Yeah, getting out of the room gets even harder and harder when you bring on more and more people. You have, you have more and more at stake. You have more. These are your friends, these are your colleagues. Was there anything, I'm curious, was there anything when you, because you came from the legal background, was there anything when you were building this in the early days, you were just, like, either shocked by or you couldn't believe. Some piece of the. Of the fundraise or of the hiring. Was there some part of it where you felt like it was just, like, crazy?

Yeah. Fundraising is broken and crazy. Like, it's just.

It's true.

I mean, right. It's brutal. And I had, like, before I started, I didn't know that only 2% of venture capital dollars went to women. And I often wonder, like, if I had known that, would it have impacted my decision? Like, I like to think it wouldn't have. But I do wonder how many people that deters at the beginning. But, like, fundraising is just nuts. Like, the whole process, you know, you go out and you are pitching your business idea over and over and over again to dozens of investors all across the country, and you really don't know where your yes is going to come. It's a brutal process. It requires a lot of honesty with yourself. It requires a lot of stamina. It requires the ability to face rejection repeatedly. And I've learned all of these things pretty quickly and adapted to it, but it is, like, it's a hard process, and it's not one you could understand until you've done it.

Yeah, it's good to. I got good advice to sort of reframe that into. Hey, when you're out pitching, think of it as an incredible opportunity to meet someone who's doing something really interesting.

Yeah.

And then when you walk out of there, the worst case is there's another person who knows what I'm doing.

Yes, I think that's right. And the other thing, I mean, there's a lot of pieces to it. Right. Like, people who've turned me down for investment have made introductions to me for key hires. They've brought me members. They've been cheerleaders and supporters.

Yeah, you don't want a bridge.

There's huge opportunity there. And I do have incredible investors. And listen, also, I've been incredibly fortunate. The Riveter is funded. We've raised $21 million. We've had a very fortunate path, and I'm grateful for that every day because a lot of people don't have that. That opportunity. But it is. At the same time, it is hard. And I definitely, you know, I mentioned to you that I have four kids. My kids are really young. So I have raised all of the money I've raised while either pregnant or with a baby under the age of 6 months old. And so I am constantly asked about my kids when I am pitching. And that's hard. It's hard because I don't know if my husband would be asked the same thing. And it's, you know, it's interesting because I try to think about it. Like, I didn't see a lot of women when I go look around now. There aren't a lot of women who are starting companies after they've had kids or while they're having kids, like in those childbearing years. And I really hope that we see more of that as we move forward as a society and with a more evolved startup ecosystem. But that's something I think about a lot as well.

Right. Yeah. That's incredibly challenging. That's two full time jobs.

Yes, it is.

And a fundraise. So I don't know. Three full time jobs.

Yeah.

Did you raise 21 million all in one shot or was it over a few rounds?

It was over three rounds. So I raised a $600,000 pre seed round and then from angel investors, and then I raised a $4.75 million seed round and then I raised a $16 million Series A. So. A very big Series A.

And that was like a year ago.

It was a year ago. Yep.

Awesome. Okay, now we're gonna get in. Oh, I have one more question. It might be something you've already said, but what if you could go back two years in time and give yourself some advice from when you were just getting started, what would it be? And you just, you gave great advice about you're locked in the room when you decide to take fundraising.

But I think the other piece of advice I would give myself is that you have to learn very quickly to take the lows and the highs the same because they come in the same day, they come in the same hour. And you just have to realize that you're going to get through both, that the situation is always going to be changing, and that you just have to kind of remain calm in the face of a lot of constant change.

That's great advice. Yeah. I think you want to be a ship captain. You just have to sort of take it all as it comes and keep everyone steady and, you know, keep everyone safe and, you know, worry about the stuff as it comes, but worry about it the right amount. Yes, do. Okay, now some fun ones. What's something on your bucket list? Unrelated to work? What's something on your bucket list?

Something on my bucket list that you haven't done? Related to work that I haven't done. I really want to go to Bhutan. It's this country. It's an amazing country in Asia that's called the Land of Happiness and it's got amazing mountains to climb and it looks incredible. And that's somewhere I want to go.

You're not going to believe this. You're the second person who has said their bucket list item is to go to Bhutan.

That's unbelievable. Who else said that we should be friends?

I need to. I need to look back and I'll. I can send you an email, but I forget who it was. And the reason I remember this is because you're really not going to believe this. So my grandfather was one of the. Ran the UNDP for the United States. So he basically traveled to all these different countries. I think while he was there for six or seven years, he traveled to something like 109 countries. His favorite was Bhutan.

Oh, my gosh. So I'm right. This is somewhere I should be going, apparently.

Absolutely.

That's so funny. I've been to a lot of countries. I've been to 60 countries because when I worked for the Carter Center, I traveled a lot working on international elections. But then also I just, I deferred law school for a year when I was 23 and traveled to Asia for six months backpacking. And it's always been a passion of mine. But I've never made it to Bhutan and I am excited to get to do it someday.

That's a great one. Yeah, I guess Bhutan is just next.

It's just next. I think you need to go there.

I do. I mean, now. It's. Now I've had enough inputs that I'm like, all right, I gotta start considering this. And then last question. If you had a 30 or 60 second Super bowl ad and you could choose anyone to represent your business, who would you choose and why?

I would choose Michelle Obama because she is someone who has shown a very deep commitment to advancing women across this country.

Michelle Obama is just leaving so much money on the table. You are the, you are the third. You are the third company that said Michelle Obama. And I think, yeah, she would. She is sort of the. She'd be a perfect advocate for any business.

Yes, 100%. She's incredible. So, I mean, there's like, there's no way around her power and voice. It's something we should all listen to.

Well, Amy, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate you coming on and best of luck with everything.

All right, thanks so much. All right,

Thank you, everyone, for listening. Please rate and review the podcast. I'm not begging, but I'm not not begging. So takes 30 seconds. Give me a rating. Give me some feedback. I will try to take that feedback and make the podcast better. Thank you very much. Love you all.

Sat.