Nobody in Church will tell you this about Money

And there was the first time scarcity came was when the devil spoke to Adam and Eve and he said, you can't eat of that fruit, that one tree. So he had them focus their attention on the one tree that they couldn't have in comparison to the thousands of trees that they could have. And I think that's the mindset in the church. Focus your attention on the lack, on the little, but not on the— your attention on the abundance that's all around you. And I think that's where people are missing it. Today, you know, they view the pastor or the preacher or the minister or the missionary as the leftovers. Just give them the leftovers. They're beggars can't be choosers, you know. They should live poor and look poor and act poor. I think that poverty mindset— if you have to make excuses for why you buy what you buy, there's a problem there. Everyone brings up the famous scripture about the rich young ruler, the camel.

Eye of the camel.

Eye of the camel. What that's really speaking about

Hey guys, welcome back to Bottom Line with the Baldovinos Podcast. Today we're going to be talking about a little more of a controversial subject. It's money. What does the Bible say about money? What does the Bible say about wealth? How should we steward it? How should we think about it? How should we go after it? And even with my own journey, I have my dad here today. Even with my own journey, I came from a missions background, church background. I was an MK and a PK. I was both. So just growing up in the church, money is kind of a controversial, not talked about subject. And I was in full-time missions for 7 years, so I was always fundraising. And I remember when I got into the business sphere and I got into the business world and I started my own business, I was actually at, uh, he's a Christian businessman's mastermind is what they're called. They're essentially just business events where they teach you about what they've learned in business. And I was in the mastermind and he was talking about what the Bible actually says about money. And I think he was referring to a verse in Ecclesiastes or Deuteronomy. I can't remember. But he was— I always said, I even said this to my wife all the time. I was like, man, we just need to fundraise enough to cover our bases, to cover our expenses. And I always thought that was like totally fine. Like, oh yeah, I'm just like trying to provide for my family. Like that was always the subconscious thought. And I'm sure a lot of you guys have even thought that. And, um, and the business guy, he goes, actually, a lot of people always say— it was like he was talking to me— a lot of people always say you just need enough to cover your bills, cover your expenses, maybe have a vacation once a year, be able to give, be able to save for a vacation, stuff like that. And he said that is actually inherently selfish because you're only thinking about yourself. And he was like, God's desire for the kingdom and for business and for money is to actually be a river and someone that you can freely give, freely donate, freely do whatever you need to with your money and use it as a tool rather than like a not talked about topic in the church. And from that moment I was like, oh, I actually have been thinking about money in a way of poverty and it's actually not biblical how I've been thinking about money. And I've even been thinking about money selfishly. I've only been thinking about it for myself. And so that's been a little bit of my journey and we're gonna go into it a little bit more in this podcast. But I want to hear, what has your journey been with mindset, the Bible? What does it have to do with money and wealth and all that kind of stuff?

Yeah, it's a big subject. It has been a big subject for my entire life since I was young. And you're thinking about money. I mean, everyone is thinking about money from the time they wake up in the morning to the time they're going to bed.

Especially guys.

Yeah, for sure. Men are thinking about money. That's what you're doing for a living. You're doing for a living, not because you really necessarily like it. You're going to work because you're putting labor in and exchanging hours for dollars because you want to provide for your family. So it's a big need. It's a prerequisite to being a man, if you will, providing for your family.

Yeah.

And you kind of do it with pleasure at the same time because you want to take care of your family. So everyone's thinking about this. And, uh, but in the church, not— it's, it's rarely talked about.

Yeah.

Unless 2 things are happening: you're fundraising for something, or you're talking to the people about getting out of debt. So a special thing is happening, a special training is happening. So it doesn't teach you about money, the mindset about money, how to grow it, how to make it, how to multiply it, how to invest it, how to give it. It's mostly teaching you how to get out of debt, which Americans need that information. So I'm not downing it. A lot of people are in debt. They're mishandling money. And, but it's really what I have found even in my own life, my own journey. It's a mindset. How do you think about money? What, what kind of relationship do you have with wealth or money? Is it, is it bad? Is it good? Is inherently neutral? What is it? Yeah. A lot of people have to wrestle with this, and I did too, because I came from, you know, my, my dad, you know, worked all his life as an architect. So I saw the business side of making money, and I saw him as a giver. I also was involved in church and ministry, and I went into the ministry side as well. And, you know, there's support and finances and donations and all of that that came along with it. And I was always thinking of big things that I was doing when it came to events and marketing and all of that. So maybe I did a little bit better than other people when it came to ministry because I knew how to speak publicly or things like that, and I knew how to grow things. So I probably did a little bit better than everyone else in ministry, but I still did not have a good view of money. And I didn't have a good, uh, abundant mindset about money. And that's the difference. And I think people need to figure out, where do I fit? Do I fit in the abundance side or do I fit in the scarcity side? Is money available to me, accessible to me? Is it easy for me or is it hard?

Yeah.

Or is it going to go away? Do I have to— as soon as I get it, do I need to spend it because I barely have it? That's poverty mindset. Or poverty mindset is, it's just I need enough for me. And for my family, that's a poverty mindset. It's not abundant. Or I better grab a hold of it and I hoard it and I gotta, you know, store it. It's not about how much you have. It's about how you— what you think about money.

Yeah.

And the relationship that you have with it. So you can hoard it. A person can hoard it if they have a ton, or they can hoard it even if they have a little. So it's not about how much you have. It's about your mindset with it.

Yeah.

And so for me, it was kind of like, unwrapping an onion. There wasn't one specific moment, but there was a requirement and a need to change my mindset about money. You and I started a business, um, and the first thing you went to that same— I went to the same mastermind that you did, and I didn't have that thinking where I just wanted enough for my family. I had the thinking where I'm already older, I'm an older man. And maybe I missed it. Maybe it's too late to make a lot of money. Maybe I just, because of my age, I should not fight to get a whole bunch. And I struggled with that because I thought making a lot of money needed more time. And if you're in your 40s, man, how am I going to make it? How am I going to create this business? Am I just gonna make it by, barely make it by? And I just saw in the Bible that abundance, from the, the point of the Garden of Eden being created, there was an abundance. God created the Garden of Eden, put Adam and Eve in it, and he said, you can have all the fruit, all the— all these trees are yours, this garden is yours. And there was the first time scarcity came was when the devil spoke to Adam and Eve and he said, You know, you just can't have— you can't have fruit from— you can't eat of that fruit, that one tree. So he had them focus their attention on the one tree that they couldn't have in comparison to the thousands of trees that they could have. And I think that's the mindset in the church. Focus your attention on the lack, on the little, on— but not on the focus. Don't focus your attention on the abundance that's all around you. And I think that's where people are missing it today. They're focusing their attention on the little and the lack rather than the abundance that's all around us. And we have to change our mindset to thinking abundantly, overflowing, that is available to me and that I can make a lot of money. Now, the motivations of making that money, that's a totally different conversation.

Yeah.

And for me, I want to make an impact. I want to take care of my family. But I do want to make an impact with money. And I believe that God wants us to, people in the kingdom of God, people who are believers and Christians, I believe they should make a great impact. And if you don't have money, you can't do much. I was just recently in a conference last week we were both at. And while we were in that meeting, we were having lunch with a businessman.

Yeah.

And he was saying, you know, that he's doing things and missions and doing things overseas. He goes, man, I want to make more money so that I can do more stuff. You know, I, I could only do this little bit because of the resources that I have, but if I had more, I would do more. I believe that's the right heart. That's where it does begin, the motivation to do more, not just to have more because I want more cars. And I have no problem with more cars or nice houses or go on more vacations with your family. I, I appreciate that very much. Because I do too. I just think that that's an entry-level motivation and that's not the eternal motivation that we should have.

Yeah.

So, as far as for me, I've been on a journey unwrapping the onion of poverty, of scarcity, of lack, and killing it in my life. And I didn't know how bad I had it. I had to repent of it, but I had to keep looking at it to to go, oh my goodness, where did this mindset come from? I believe this mindset of lack and poverty comes from 3 main areas in our life. Number one, it's our words. Words that we heard other people like our family, our parents, coaches, teachers, media, you know, they're bombarding you. Even the media right now is bombarding you with lack and scarcity, inflation. And if you don't get a house right now, you're never gonna get a house. And you know, gas prices and egg prices. It's, it's just all around you. Lack, lack, lack, scarcity, scarcity, scarcity. It's like bombarding your mind. But I don't see that in the Bible. I don't see scarcity and lack in the Bible. And I don't think that poverty is a good thing. In the church, we believe the lie that poverty is piety, that poverty is holy in some way. It is not. Living in, living in lack, barely making it by Living in debt, living in poverty is not God's best. And so I think we have to get away from that as fast as we possibly can. We have to hate it, to go, God, you have given me the ability according to Deuteronomy 8:18 to create wealth. So how can I create it? What do I have? What's in my hand? What do I need to learn? What rooms do I need to be around so I can change my mindset about money? What, what kind of relationship do I have with money when it does come. Because a lot of people can't invest, they won't save it because they have a really bad relationship with money. They use it as a crutch to fix something inside them.

Yeah.

And so I wanted to look at that too. Like, I view people who go and spend it right away as soon as they get it as they hate money. Because if you liked it, you keep it a little bit longer. If you hate it, you got to get rid of it. And that's what most people do. They get rid of it as soon as they get it because they don't have a good relationship with money. So first thing is your words and what you heard your parents, your family members say. And we can jump into that one. Number 2, it's specific moments in your life that you saw money as hard, maybe.

Traumatic events, maybe.

Traumatic events. And the third thing would be maybe your dad, even your dad. Like, I remember this one moment when my dad lost his job and I saw lack in my home growing up. You know, the air conditioning unit in Minnesota just broke down. So for an entire month, we did not fix the air conditioning unit. We went to bed every single night in really heat with the windows open and mosquitoes coming. It was hard. So that traumatic moment, I had to go back and look at it. Where did this come from? Well, there were specific moments. Not like— I'm not blaming my parents. I'm not blaming my dad. He did his best all his life. I'm so grateful. I saw hard work. And then, so that was a traumatic moment. And the third thing is also how you view it is affected by Your words, dramatic moments, and someone modeling it for me. So, you know, did you see your parents argue over it? Did you see your parents stress over it? Um, how did they view money? You know, all those things play a part in your programming, in my programming. And so, uh, even spiritual leaders. how they view it, how they talk about it, and you become, you, you become in agreement to their mindset too. So it does matter, these 3 things, and I think that's where people need to begin to look at their lives, look at their mindset, and go, is this good? Is this healthy? Is this biblical?

Okay, and you were talking about with the, the words thing. So what do you mean by the words thing? Like, what is some examples of what that actually looks like in someone's life?

Yeah. So in growing up, I heard this all my— I heard this with friends. And, you know, I remember the first time I ever heard a friend say to his daughter, his daughter came to him, we were watching a UFC fight. His daughter came to him and said, hey, Dad, I need $20. Can you gimme $20? And he goes, what am I made of? Am I a tree? Did you just come and shake the tree? Am I made of money? And, you know, I'm like, wow, I never heard that before. And I kind of like took it as my own, like, yeah, I made a tree, you know, just come and shake the tree and I'm just made out of money. And, uh, those phrases can really affect the way you think about money. Here are some other phrases that we say kind of like inherently as part of nature, uh, and it becomes second nature to us. Like, here are some phrases. Um, save your money for a rainy day. Time is money. Rich people are greedy. You have to work hard for your money. Money doesn't grow on trees. Or, we can't afford it. That's a pretty common one. We can't afford it. Money doesn't buy happiness. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. We hear that on the news all the time. There's never enough. Or, boy, that guy's filthy rich. Like being rich is filthy, you know. Or beggars can't be choosers. I remember in New Zealand, someone, you know, we were out for dinner with this couple and they gave us tea at the end of the dinner. And at the end of the dinner they said, oh, save your tea bags, after we had already used them. And so I saw them all putting it in a napkin and they wanted us to grab our tea bags that are already used and they were going to save them. And I said, oh, you're going to save them? And they said, yeah, we send them to missionaries overseas. I said, you give these tea bags, these used tea bags, not new ones, used tea bags that were already used to missionaries overseas? And she goes, yeah, you know, beggars can't be choosers. I was kind of surprised. I kind of, kind of was taken aback by it. She meant well. But I cannot believe that you're sending The leftovers of tea bags, and they're not that expensive.

Tea bags are like a dollar.

We're not talking 1920s here. We're not in the Great Depression. We're talking like it's 2010. You know, it's crazy. And, but that's how people even view giving too. You know, they view the pastor or the preacher or the minister or the missionary as the leftovers. Just give them the leftovers. They're beggars can't be choosers, you know? They should live poor and look poor and act poor. I think that poverty mindset, if you have to make excuses for why you bought what you buy, there's a problem there.

Yeah.

You shouldn't have to.

Okay, and you brought me on a little bit of a train of thought here. So like, even someone listening to this, they're like, okay, I'm, I'm breaking down the thought mindsets of like, okay, maybe money isn't bad. But now I want to see like, okay, in the Bible Maybe it was Abraham, maybe it was Jesus, maybe it was his disciples. What did those guys think about money? How did they have money a part of their lives?

That's a great question. So everyone brings up the famous, you know, message, the famous, uh, scripture about the, the rich young ruler, the camel, eye of the camel. What that's really speaking about is who's on the throne of your heart. And I've been quoted many times by Christians, and they quoted the scripture verse wrong. You know, don't you know that the love of money is the root of all evil? Don't you know that money is the root of all evil? They would say, don't you know that the money is the root of all evil? And I would say, well, that's not what the Bible says. 1 Timothy says that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And so they miss a couple verses, a couple words there in that verse. It's the love and it's all kinds. And so really it's about who's on the throne of your heart.

Yeah.

Because I can see a poor person loving money just as well as a wealthy person loving money.

Yeah.

It's not how much you have, it's what you view it, how you view it.

Yeah.

And so I see in the Bible that wealth and riches can really deter you from your calling and your character.

Yeah.

But also, lack and poverty are bad. We want to run away from lack and poverty and debt. Those are bad. That's on the wrong spectrum. We don't want to be a part of that camp. But we also want to be cautious that the love of money can grab a hold of our heart. So the real question is, who's on the throne of your heart? And it doesn't matter how much you have. Or the lack. Is God enough? Is God your provider? Is God your source? And do you glorify God with your money? If you have a hard time tithing, if you have a hard time giving, you might have a love of money.

Yeah.

So, and it's not about how much you have, it's about, can you give it away? Can you donate? Can you partner with people? That's the goal. I don't want it to be stuck in my heart. I remember talking to a friend of mine who was in professional baseball. He told me at the time his rookie contract was $200,000 and he told me how challenging it was. He's 18 years old, his contract is $200,000. He had never given $20,000 away. He wanted to at least give that.

Yeah.

He had never given $10,000. He never had $10,000. He was 18 years old in high school.

Yeah.

All of a sudden you're in the major leagues. And, you know, he knew the principle because he went to church, but he had never done it. And, uh, I believe that God spoke to him that if you don't give what you have right now, you will not be able to steward more when you do have more. And so he started giving that $20,000 away. And for him, that was hard. He ended up— and I remember talking to him years later when his contract was $9 million. So now he's almost giving $1 million away every single year. Where he came from was $20,000. Now he's almost giving $1 million away. The difficulty and the challenge would have been way harder for him if he had not gone through the process of Not allowing that money to take a hold of your heart. So it doesn't matter how much you have right now. What matters is I want to be able to not just steward my money so that I can have more, but I want to make sure that this is God's money and I'm a steward of that money, and I want to make sure that it never has a hold of me. So I believe that giving and tithing are a main part to not allowing that money grab a hold of my heart.

That's good. Okay, and what about with— so in the Bible, I was even thinking like Abraham, for example. It says that he was wealthy. Jesus was a businessman. A lot of the disciples were businessmen. What, what does it look like in the Bible with those guys in terms of money and finances? And how did they think about it? And how they did— how did they use it?

Well, I'm not going to go into all the scripture verses, but what we see in the Bible is we saw a lot of people wealthy. We saw a lot of leaders throughout the Bible that were wealthy. Boaz was a businessman and wealthy. Uh, Adam, the first thing that happened in— I think it's in Genesis chapter 2 or chapter 3, where gold was in the garden and God said that it was good. That it was the 8th thing that he said. And 8 times you see it in the book of Genesis that money was always a part of God's people. Wealth was a good thing. I mean, the, the father of the faith, Abraham, the Bible says that he was rich, really rich. And it described how he was rich. He was rich in gold. He was rich in all sorts of ways, silver and animals and, you know, cattle. He He was very, very rich. And so it's not a bad thing to be rich or wealthy. You can do a lot more with it. And, uh, you see it in Solomon, you see it in Joseph, you see it in Boaz, you see it all through scripture that money stewarded well is a good thing. It's not a bad thing. So I believe God's biblical view of money is that it's good and that he wants God's people to have it. And he wants God's people to expand his kingdom with the resources of money.

Okay, and that even opens up another train of thought for me, is the parable about the— what was it? The 3 people that got the money?

Talents?

Yeah, the talents.

The parable of the talents.

Yeah, so maybe expand on that one a little bit more even.

Well, if you look at it from that, it's also based on money. It wasn't just—

Stewardship, yeah.

Yeah, it wasn't just my gifts or talents. That's what I hear preachers do. It's actually about money. And he says, it's not yours. You know, you're a steward of it. And the person who, you know, hid it, put it under the ground because he was either scared, didn't multiply it, didn't grow it, didn't invest it.

It'd just be like putting it in your savings account. Totally. And letting it sit there.

You'll never become rich by having a savings account. You have to invest it in some way. I believe the greatest investment that you should have is an investment of you. The first place to invest your money is in growing your mindset. That's— and number 2, I believe that we should develop and invest in skills to grow money, to manage money well, to make sure you understand taxes, to understand investments, to understand how to multiply my money. Yeah. You should learn how to invest, be an investor, be a multiplier. So if I have $10 today, at the end of the year, how can I make it $30? How can I make it 40? How can I make it 50? That's the difference between a poor mindset and a wealthy mindset. A wealthy mindset, uh, thinks about money. When I get it, how can I multiply it? How can I live off the interest of assets? Because money follows assets. So what kind of assets can I create to make me more money? And then once you know how to grow it and multiply it, you want to learn how to keep it. You want to make sure that you're not just giving it away to the government. So, I want to give it to the kingdom. I want to make sure I'm being a good steward in taxes, but I also want to learn how to grow it and multiply it. So, learn how to grow it in your mind and learn how to grow skills because skills compound.

Yeah, that makes total sense because I even remember actually listening before Charlie Kirk died. He had an interview on the podcast. It's called the Iced Coffee Hour and they're like a financial podcast. And so, they were asking him all these questions about like, How he makes money, how he invests his money, what he thinks about it. And he actually said he gets a $350,000 a year salary from Turning Point USA, but he donates $400,000 a year to Turning Point USA every single year. So he essentially just gives his salary back because the money he's made from his books, his podcasts, he would just take that money and put it into investments, and then he would live off the dividends and the returns on his investments. So he never had to essentially work ever again. He's living off what he made. Just like the parable, the guy multiplied instead of put it in the ground and just left it. And even the thing you said about skills, I actually remember asking one time, um, a Christian businessman who'd made a lot more money than me, and I was like, okay, I have this amount of money. What should I do with it? And he was like, he's like, either one, buy more books to read. Buy more courses or just save it. Because if you don't know the, the mindset of even saving to a certain income level, you're always going to want to just spend it the second you have it. So he was like, you can either save it to this amount because then you learn the value of savings and putting it in a certain amount and the patience of it, or buy more books, buy more courses, attend more things to learn more. Because he's like, you're only really as valuable as your skill sets. He's like, everyone thinks go to college, everyone thinks do this thing and then I'll have this job handed to me. But if you are infinitely valuable because you have all these skills and you have those tools in your tool belt, then you're valuable to anyone. And I actually even remember another business guy saying, he goes, money actually isn't that hard to make. He goes, all you have to do is just find a problem for someone who's wealthy or a group of people who are wealthy and solve one of their problems and you'll make money. He goes, that's really all you got to do.

Right.

And then once you have the money, then you just learn how to steward the money, and it's kind of just a circle. And I liked and appreciated how he even talked about it, and it was almost like— it's how I feel like we should think about money. It's almost just like it's just a tool. It's valuable, it's good to have, and it's good to be kingdom-minded in your money and how we can spread it and grow it. But it's all just— it's just the utility at the end of the day. It's something that we can use for, and we shouldn't be obsessed with it. But we should know how to grow it, create it, and steward it well. And so maybe you have more to add to that.

Oh, that's really good. Uh, but I think the mindset of money is so critical alongside how to grow, how to have the skills to grow and make money.

Yeah.

But if you learn how to grow and make money without the mindset and a proper relationship with money, you'll end up broke.

Oh, for sure.

Think about the sports, all the athletes. They build their lives from a little kid, their skills on becoming great athletes. They even have the mindset to be great athletes.

And learn a skill.

And they learn it and they develop it and they get better. They, and they get notoriety, right? They build the skills to become wealthy.

Yeah.

Except the mindset, if it doesn't grow with it, the wallet follows mindset. So if the mindset doesn't go alongside the skills, you'll end up broke.

It's almost like with a person who wins the lottery as well.

Right.

They usually just end up broke 1 or 2 years later.

5 years later, they are broke. They end up in the same place.

Yeah. And I actually even remember this the first time I made— I remember it was when our business first started. We had like a big contract come in. And I made a big chunk of money for the first time because I'd been in missions my whole life, low-income jobs.

What did you make?

I don't remember. It was like a 5-figure contract.

Okay.

And so then I make this money and the money comes in and immediately within 2 months, pretty much all the money was like gone. And I was like, I looked back and I was like, wow, that was so dumb. Like I just wasted all that money on stuff. I didn't really need. It was vacations. It was random things like coffee machines and stuff we wanted. I was like, that stuff was cool to buy, but now there's no multiplication. It was just as bad as just putting it in the ground. I just wasted it. And so I think just like you're saying, if your mindset is not there, even if you somehow get money from a lottery or maybe you're an athlete or something lucky happens and you get a bunch of money, if you don't have the mindset to steward it, and even know how to use it at your disposal, it will be gone in 2 seconds.

Right.

And so, that's kind of like what you're saying as an example.

Yeah, 100%. And that's why I'm really leery about teaching people how to make money first.

Yeah.

But that's what everyone wants to learn.

Yeah.

How do I make more money? I would rather teach people in depth how to view and have a good relationship with money first before I teach them how to make money.

Yeah.

Because, Allah, you know, they can make it and then it's gone.

Yeah.

And that's so sad. Or they could get in trouble.

Yeah.

You know, they'll never give it, they'll never go and spend time properly with money. They'll maybe even ruin their lives because they have a bunch of money.

Yeah.

So I want to make sure that money— I was just— we were just with Lance Wallnau and we had lunch with him.

Yeah.

And we got to talking about this subject, and he was in his fatherly way telling us, we want to make sure that we don't derail people from their calling.

Yeah.

While we teach people how to make money.

Yeah.

And he was 100% correct.

Yeah.

Because it can be a real distraction from their calling, and when their entire desire was to serve people and expand the kingdom. So I don't want to be one of those people that help people get in trouble or derail them from their calling.

Yeah.

I want to help people make money so that their calling can be expanded. They can reach more people, influence more people, help more people, serve more people, save more people.

Yeah.

That would be the goal. And it is a motivating factor for me.

Yeah.

And the older I get— I remember I was in a mastermind, and in that mastermind, this lady said that her husband was an Uber driver. You were there. Her husband was an Uber driver. And 2 years later, there she is making a lot of money. And she said what it would— she made $1 million in a day. And I was— I just couldn't wrap my mind with that kind of money making in a day. And, um, she said, what would it feel like to make $1 million in a day? And in that room, some people— I just started, you know, some people started, you know, clapping, some people started dancing. For me, I didn't— my body did not respond like that. For me, I responded with tears. I'm like, the overwhelming weight of making money. You can do it. If you can do it once, you can do it again and again and again. So my mindset went like, boy, if I could learn to make $1 million in a day, I could do it again and again and again. That was the overwhelming freedom that I was looking for, not just to take care of my family, but what else could I do? Who else can I help? What missions could I be a part of? You know, so I just, I had an overwhelming desire to help people, and I wanted to learn everything I could about money and to get rid of scarcity and poverty because I just don't believe that it's the right place to be.

It's really good. Well, I think, okay, so as we're closing here, someone listening to this, what is like— they finish the episode, what is one thing you would say? Maybe it's a belief they need to shift, maybe it's a phrase they need to stop saying. Maybe it's an action they can do. What would you say is like one thing they could walk away after this podcast and do to maybe help them with the mindset or the action of money?

Success leaves clues. So I would get around people. I would either buy books or be part of coaching programs, but I would definitely get around people who think differently than you about money. So I would read all the books I could. I would be around coaching programs because you want to be in that room. I believe that belief and mindset is not taught, it's mostly caught. So, if I can be around environments, around people, a way of thinking, and I can change that, I do that by being around the right group.

Yeah.

You want to be around eagles. Eagles fly together. They Maybe rare, but they fly together and you want to fly with the eagles. So success leaves clues. Be around those people, buy the books, or at the very least put them in your ears so that you can start changing the way you think about money because you don't have to be broke.

That's good. Well guys, thank you so much for joining us for the episode. If you guys like this and you are listening to this and some of it is clicking, Share with someone that you think maybe has a poverty mindset, or maybe they have an interesting take on the episode, and have them comment down below. Share with them. But till next time, see you guys later.