STARTING YOUNG

Welcome to the inaugural episode of Building Resilient Futures, the podcast where we explore what it takes to thrive in an ever-changing world. I'm your host, Aryan Vedhara, and I'm thrilled to introduce our very first guest, Ahana Banerjee, founder of Clear, the groundbreaking multi-million dollar YC-backed startup. That's transforming the way we approach skincare and social networking. In this series, we'll dive into the big ideas shaping our world, from sustainability and entrepreneurship to the challenges of adapting to AI and navigating a shifting job market. Together, we'll uncover actionable insights, inspiring stories, and practical strategies to help you not just keep up with change, but lead it. Let's start with what's your personal story, what's led you to where you are today, and how has the theme of resilience played a part in your professional career?

I think resilience is really the common thread at every stage of my career and my life, really. How I've ended up here as an entrepreneur It's, it's not been a straightforward path. When I was younger, I really believed that I would be a physicist, and I think going back even further, that stemmed from the fact that as a child I was mainly brought up in the UK. I lived in Cheshire, and then at the age of 14, me and my family moved to New Delhi, India. Now, this was a huge move, not just geographically, but also as somebody of Indian origin but brought up in the UK. In my story, I think resilience has really been a common thread all the way from my childhood to where I am now in my career as an entrepreneur. I was brought up mainly in the UK. I lived in Cheshire till I was 14, and then at the age of 14, me and my family moved to New Delhi, India. That was a huge move, not just geographically, but also being British Indian but not that culturally Indian, it was also a massive culture shock. And I think what made it even, even bigger transition was the fact that I went from a regular state school school in Cheshire to an international school in New Delhi. So I had gone from experiencing a very ordinary life in the UK to suddenly being in a country like India where there's such huge, huge extremes in socioeconomic class, and I was experiencing the absolute best of it. I was experiencing the most privileged life. My school in Delhi was far fancier than my school in Cheshire. But at the same time, I was seeing poverty like I had never seen it before. And so I think those 2 years had a huge impact on me personally. And I remember, you know, every day we'd be driving to our fancy school in the fancy car, and there would be girls my age begging. We'd be stuck in Delhi traffic and they'd be knocking on the car windows. And I think there was that aspect of being of Indian origin, I look like these people, and I'd always just question, why am I on this side of the car window and why are they on that side? And I think it was from that point that I realised just how lucky I was to have the kind of life that I did. And yes, my life in Delhi was extremely privileged, and, you know, I think when I look at privilege, I view it in the sense of I have a great family, I am blessed with good health, I've had access to a great education. And so for me, that was a real turning point at the age of 14 where I knew I wanted to give back somehow, and I thought that the best way to do that would be through academia and science. I always felt like— and so I really geared the rest of my academics around physics. I wanted to be a physicist. And so, you know, I, I moved to Singapore when I was 16, again with my family. That was another incredible experience, and I was very academically driven during those years. And I applied to study physics at Imperial College London. And to be honest, you know, talking about resilience at every step of the journey things went wrong. Even well before you'd consider, you know, career. When I was moving from Delhi to Singapore, the school in Singapore had an entrance exam. And at this point, as I mentioned, I already knew that I wanted to study physics at university. And in order to do physics, that school was an IB school, so I knew I had to do higher-level maths and physics at the very least. I had never had any problems with these subjects academically. In fact, maths was probably my strongest subject. However, at the school in New Delhi, it was a completely different curriculum to the school in Singapore, and I was a little bit naive of that, and I'd never struggled with a maths test before. So I rocked up to my entrance exam from my school in Singapore, didn't prepare at all, 'cause I thought, well, I've never done badly in a maths test. My mum asks me, what were the questions about? And I said, I don't know, I only really answered about 30% of them, but it was probably 'cause the test was just really hard. Turns out, the test was hard, but I'd also done exceptionally badly on the test. So the school in Singapore, they called up my family and they said, 'Look, we'd love to offer Ahana a place, but we can't give her higher-level maths at the IB because her entrance exam has shown that she's actually more maths studies level, so it's even a stretch to give her regular standard level maths.' Now of course we were flabbergasted, and I think my maths grade at my previous school was like 106% or something stupid because of extra credit. I was so set on studying physics at uni that I couldn't really accept an offer to a school that wasn't going to offer me higher-level maths. So I told the school this, that I needed higher-level maths, is there an alternative? And I ended up going through the maths paper with the head of maths in, in the department there, and what came up was the fact that I just hadn't been taught a lot of the topics. And maths is one of those subjects where you kind of need to be taught, it's hard to just figure it out. So he said, okay, it's clear that you have the potential, you've got these gaps in your knowledge. So we will give you the whole, um, IGCSE curriculum. You can learn it in this summer between grade 10 and 11, and we'll give you another maths test on your first day of school. And if you do well, we'll give you high-level maths. If you don't, we're gonna have to keep you at standard-level maths. So I ended up having that maths test on my first day of school. Fortunately, I did well. And they were able to give me high-level maths. But even for something that, you know, now it's been more than 10 years and I've had so many challenges in my professional life and my career that, you know, that was kind of only really the start of it. But even with something as seemingly trivial as being given the opportunity to do higher-level maths, I had to fight for and I had to prove myself. I had to learn the entire curriculum in just 2 months, self-taught over the summer. And so You know, I think I was used to having to work really hard for things, and this just continued throughout my journey. So I went to— I ended up studying physics at Imperial College London. I was delighted to get in. That was sort of my dream. I was on track to have my impact on the world. Fortunately, really from the first term of my first year, it wasn't quite what I expected it to be. And I think there were several reasons for that, but the overarching one was that I think when I was at school, I hadn't really considered the realities of a career. And so I didn't really know what to do. And so I decided, well, if it's not physics, I better figure out how I'm gonna have my impact and not let my education go to waste. And so I just started applying for any and every internship in every industry. And again, this is sort of resilience coming in again. I received more rejections than you could possibly imagine. I did about 50 applications for spring weeks. I'd do about 100 for summer internships and I'd get one. And you know, the one is what you see on the LinkedIn, the one is what you need to get you to the next step of your career. But I would just apply, apply, apply, apply, and be faced with 99% rejection, but I'd get that one acceptance. And so slowly I started building up, uh, experience. My first internship was in software engineering at an investment bank, it was at Morgan Stanley, and that was a great insight into what is software engineering, but also what is finance and investment banking. These were worlds I'd never delved into. And then from there I realised maybe I'm a bit more interested in the finance side rather than the software engineering, so I applied for more banking internships. And then from there I really stumbled across entrepreneurship by way of another student at a different university reaching out to me cold on LinkedIn saying that he'd come up with a startup idea and my profile matched what he was looking for in terms of I had the skills he needed. And at this point I really hadn't considered entrepreneurship as a career. I was at this stage much more focused on a graduate scheme So I did my first job in this startup alongside my third year of university, and this was the first job that I completely fell in love with because it was the first job that, on a selfish level, let me do everything I wanted and learn as much as I could. Some days I was writing code, some days I was doing marketing, some days I was running events. I just loved that I could learn about everything. But the second thing was that impact piece. I could so directly see the impact of— I built this platform and and I can see how it's helped somebody else. So I think that was another real key turning point for me when I was 20 years old, that this is what I want to do. I want to build a tech company.

Um, you've spoken a bit about taking a leap, doing something you weren't even heard of. Yeah, a little earlier. That can be really daunting to start something new and go into something that you have really have no experience. What gave you the courage to take the leap into entrepreneurship?

I think what gave me the courage was just the way I've been brought up, and really my parents. I've always been brought up in an environment where I've believed the sky is the limit. I've never had the closest people around me question my abilities. They've, they've pushed me, and they've always kind of reaffirmed this message that you are capable of achieving whatever you want as long as you work hard, as long as you're disciplined. And I think it's just small micro interactions like this in your childhood where you're heard and you don't feel the need to have to prove yourself because you have that deep security within yourself. It's what gave me the confidence, frankly. I think, you know, on a practical note, I also hedged my risks massively. I put myself in the best position possible where I knew even if I took this leap and it didn't work out, I'd have a great backup plan as far as taking my graduate job. I'd still have a physics degree from Imperial College. And so, you know, the risks were hedged.

You found it clear? Yeah. Where was Clear born out of? What was the idea? What was the spark?

So Clear is a skincare routine tracking app. It works very similar to a period tracker or a diet tracker, but it's a skincare tracker. You can download the app for free, you log the products you're using, you can take progress pictures, and we analyze how your skin changes in those pictures, the parameters like your skin type, skin concerns, skin color, and we use all of this data to make unbiased product recommendations for consumers. This is something personal to me because I have suffered so badly with my own skin issues. And, you know, in those years I mentioned that I was growing up and moving in different countries, these were also the teenage years that I was experiencing acne at its very worst. And it's really sad to reflect on because those were the years I had some of the best adventures of my life. I used to have pictures taken because I was so self-conscious of my skin, and what I was seeing in the mirror did not look like what I was seeing on social media. And so I really, really struggled with self-confidence in my appearance, especially as a young woman, because of the skin issues that I was facing. And I was just fed up with the way that I was getting recommendations, going in these cycles of hope and disappointment. So actually, when I was growing up, because I would move around from different countries and see different doctors and dermatologists, they wouldn't have a unified health system, so they wouldn't know what I'd been prescribed before. And I remember that first move from India to Singapore, and the Singapore doctor asked 'Well, what have you done?' And I'm like, 'I don't know, I'm a kid, how am I supposed to know these medication names?' I realised, well, no one else is gonna keep track of this, so I have to. So I started just making very simple Excel spreadsheets tracking: these are the products I'm using, these are the medications I'm on, and I'd link a Google folder of, 'This is how my skin looked when I was on these.' And then as I went through university, I learned how to code, I learned how to build apps. I just thought to myself, I have an app to track my period, I have an app to track my diet, I I still have an app to track my fitness? Why do I still have 30 Excel spreadsheets to track my skincare routine? And that was really the genesis for Clear.

If I jump back a little bit to your journey of building Clear, you were involved in Y Combinator.

Yeah, that's right.

And could you tell me a bit more about that? Were there any challenges? What were the real highlights of that program?

Y Combinator plays a really crucial part in my entrepreneurial journey, and frankly, it's what's allowed me to build the company at this early stage of my career. I mentioned to you that I did, um, I worked in that first startup in my third year of uni, and I had that revelation of I want to build a tech company. The only thing I didn't do in that company was raise funding. It was a family-funded business. But doing that first job gave me the confidence that I could do this. I, I realized I had the tech skills, I had the business skills, I was ready. The thing that I didn't have was capital, and I wasn't in a position where my parents could fund the business. And so I thought, well, I'm a university student, I don't know any students that have raised external capital, so the best chance I have of basically acquiring money is by taking my graduate job. It's a well-paying job. I can work for a few years, save up, and one day use that funding to fund my own business. And that was my career plan. That's why I secured graduate jobs upon graduating. And it was when I entered my final year of university that I, that I thought, okay, I've got my grad job secured for when I finish uni. And my final year coincided with COVID That's sort of the important detail. That all of a sudden my extracurriculars and societies were cancelled and I had a lot more free time on my hands. And I just thought to myself, if one day I want to start a company, why not start working on something now in my final year of uni as a side project? And it doesn't have to go anywhere, it'll just be a learning experience. And as I said, when I'm a bit older, I've had a— got some money saved up, properly start this full-time. And so I started this alongside my studies, and in the process of just applying for funding opportunities. Again, this is where resilience comes into it. I probably applied to about 200. I knew nothing about fundraising. I hadn't really spoken to any investors at this point, but I just wanted to learn. And I don't mind rejection. I've experienced it at every stage of my career, whether it's that first maths test, applying for the, you know, software engineering jobs, the banking jobs, um, and so, you know, for me it was kind of the same thing, but now just with funding opportunities for my company. None of them materialized except for one, and that one was Y Combinator. And they took a chance on Clear when it was just a 4-day-old idea. I'd had very, very little to show for what I'd done, but it was unbelievable in the way that they invested, how quick their process moves. And that was the funding that enabled me to actually drop out of my master's program, turn down my graduate jobs, and commit full-time to building the company. The thing I needed was capital, and they solved that problem. They invested $125,000 while I was still a student. And it's a fantastic program. It's 3 months long. It culminates in what's called Demo Day, which is essentially a convention of the top Silicon Valley investors. All the startups pitch. And in the 3-month program, you get the most incredible mentorship, guidance. And especially for somebody like me who is, you know, my first day of work as an adult was through YC, which is probably the most privileged insane way to start one's career. So it's an unbelievable program and it's done great things for the ecosystem.

So the program is 3 months old, but your idea was just 4 days old. Was there a major setback, or was there something that happened in that period?

What happened is I actually applied to Y Combinator with a different idea, and this was based on some advice I had been given from an investor saying that don't do beauty, stay away from anything beauty-related, lifestyle-related as a female founder, because it will just make your life harder. I don't really know any better, so let me take on this advice. And so I came up with an idea called Quill, which was an AI note-taking app. And that's actually what I submitted to YC on the online application. Now, I did the interview with YC for Quill, for the AI note-taker company. And it was the interviewers, the YC partners, who came back to me the night of my interview, essentially saying, we like you, you've made a lot of progress, on this AI note-taker, but we don't like this idea, so we want to talk to you again in a week, come up with something better. And so it was actually only 4 days between my 2 interviews, and it was in that 4-day period that what is now Clear was born. And what I asked myself in that time was, what have I learned from my entrepreneurial activities so far? And I think the first thing was, I want to solve a problem I've experienced, because one, it will make me better at solving the problem because I understand it well, and two, it gives me the sense of satisfaction. I'm feeling the impact that I'm having. But the second criteria I had was, what is a problem I can solve better than anyone else? What is my skill set uniquely good at? And as I mentioned to you, I had suffered with skin issues for so many years. I knew the industry inside out as a consumer, but I also had the tech skills. I'd done app development before, and I kind of got the mechanics of building a social tracking platform, again, as a consumer of many of apps like that. So I really just thought, well, there's not that many software engineers that are also skincare enthusiasts. Let me just go for it. And so, you know, in those 4 days, I think I made more progress than I had in the prior 4 months that I'd been working on the AI note-taking app. But I think it was incredible of YC to invest at such an early stage of the business.

And if I go back to Clear now a little bit, as we continue to move through your journey, how do you ensure your brand continues to remain true to its mission during growth?

Yeah, it's a great question. I think there's, there's some practical things that you can put in place, like how set up your board. To put it succinctly, I am my board, so nobody legally can tell me what to do. Nobody can tell me that you must take on ad revenue from brands. And I think the second thing is, in the way that I, I lead, I'm very transparent with everyone. And it's kind of a subtle reason for why the company is called Clear. As you know, all the things about clear skin and transparency when it comes to skincare. But I think even transparency as a founder and a leader is the— is my approach. I tell my team very honestly how things are, what I'm thinking, why I'm thinking what I'm thinking. And the third is I am my own consumer. I have suffered with skin issues while I've built Clear, and it's only really within the last year that my skin has cleared, and in a large part that was down to Clear. I used my own app through that journey, and because I am a user of my own product and seen the benefits of it, and it's a community-based product, so every day I interact with other people that are on similar journeys and I'm helping, just from a purely, a pure motivation standpoint, it's so hard to not want to continue to help people like that when you can see the impact of your work.

You mentioned how you are your own board. A lot of people who are starting their own business, when they secure capital, will have a lot of pressure from where they're getting their capital from. How did you push back against that?

You know, I think it's all about how you present yourself when you're fundraising, and also being clear in the expectations. I was very lucky that I'd gone through Y Combinator, and for the first funding round that I did, the pre-seed round, generally you don't give away board seats. That, that wouldn't be considered the norm. What this also meant is I was generally dealing with slightly more experienced investors who would know not to ask for it at this stage. I recognize that sometimes when you're dealing with an inexperienced angel investor, for example, they might ask for these things when really they shouldn't, but they don't know any better and they think that they're entitled to it. And as a founder you're so desperate for capital that you kind of say yes on bad terms. The best-case scenario is you find investors that are incredibly mission-aligned and want to give you capital, and that way even if they do want a board seat, you know that you will have the same kind of rough method of making decisions and have this— have a shared value system, which is really important. On the flip side, if you, if you index too heavily on that, you may never find the right investor, and you actually risk not being able to build anything because you can't secure your capital. So there's certainly no one-size-fits-all answer. It depends on how effectively you can raise capital, which, you know, comes down to your storytelling, the narrative that you show to investors, how well connected you are, how easy you're finding it to secure meetings, you know, who else has invested. Unfortunately, all these things matter in the dynamics of fundraising. It's all down to how much leverage you have. And for me, because I'd gone through Y Combinator, that was a huge amount of leverage that I could use push back.

If we talk about your experience as a CEO and running your own business, have you engaged in much hiring so far?

I've engaged in my fair share of hiring, which I would say after fundraising is the second biggest challenge of building a company, because again, you need real values alignment, you need mission alignment, and you need the technical competency in the day-to-day. And I think finding that balance of culture fit with the technical acumen for the the job can sometimes be, be a challenge. I think sometimes you have to be very conscious of things like company culture. Our first full-time employee, who's now our CTO, Charles, in his interview process, you know, things were going really well and we made him an offer. We're going through some of the logistical details. He said, so just, um, by the way, what's the holiday policy? Holiday policy? I hadn't even thought about that. And then there's these small things that, again, when you're so caught up in the excitement of starting a company, that you don't really think about early on. But as you grow and scale, you realize that a normal companies need things like holiday policies, and you put things in place like that. So, so I think, you know, it's been an amazing learning experience, and I've made many mistakes with hiring. On the flip side, when you find great teammates, it's the absolute best feeling in the world. And one of the reasons, again, I consider myself very lucky is the fact that I literally get to choose who I work with, and I get to say how we work. We, we work with Transparen— so I think that's just such a real privileged position to be in. And yes, it's a big pond out there. Yes, you're gonna kiss some frogs in the process, but when you find the several Prince Charmings, it's, it's the most amazing feeling to build a real powerhouse of a team.

And we're talking about hiring and finding people to join your team. What steps can young people take to stay relevant in their changing world, and how can they make themselves more attractive hires for both internships and full-time roles?

I think it's all down to personal brand building, because unfortunately just being smart and having good grades and going to a top uni is not enough anymore. I think in the past there was this notion that, well, if you went to a Russell Group uni, you'd be fine, you'd get a job. That's not the reality of the job market at the moment. You have to go above and beyond, and in fact have a track record of going above and beyond. And that's not just when it comes to your academics. It means that you have to do things like starting a podcast, like you know, running events, maybe charity fundraising, sport, whatever it might be to make yourself stand out. It's kind of a given that in this day and age that you need good grades and you need the brand name of the institution that you study at. But on top of that, I think it's just about visibility and putting yourself out there and meeting people, reaching out to professionals on platforms like LinkedIn, asking for coffee chats, asking to learn about their stories, and just as a student learning more about the professional world. When I was 15, 16, I had no ideas about the realities of the working world, which is why I had such a shock when I went to university and I thought, well, being a physicist isn't what I thought it was. Whereas if you can learn about these realities earlier, you'll be much better equipped to make an informed decision. When you're older, you'll know much more what sort of environment you will thrive in, what your career values are, what's important to you. Is it how much you're learning? Is it the people you're surrounded by? Is it opportunities to travel? Is it work-life balance? You know, these are things that are different for everybody, and you won't know until you try. And the best way to do that is by talking to people in different industries when you're young, and ideally by gaining experience. And that means internships, it means work shadowing, it means, again, coffee chats, or just trying to find— even, you know, watching a day in the life videos on YouTube of people in different industries. Just to get an insight into what they do, because the working world is very different to the world of education. So the more you know about it, the better equipped you'll be to sell yourself to it and to build that personal brand around what employers are looking for in your industry.

We're talking about personal brand. What are the key ingredients outside of doing the specific things? What qualities can people show, um, which really helps them adapt and overcome the challenges they will face when they get out into the professional world?

I think, I think it's consistency and it's a track record of overcoming things. You know, we all love this one hero narrative of 'I conquered Everest' or this one big story, but really people want to see this in every action, not just the one big thing. So I think it's sort of consistency around values. And making it really clear what your values are. You need to first build up that self-awareness of what is important to you. Who am I and what do I stand for? And what do I want for people to notice about me or say about me when I leave the room? If somebody has to describe me, what do I want them to say? And then it's about acting in accordance with those values. Aim for the stars, but if you have to boil it down to 3 key traits, is it your kindness? Is it your intelligence? Is it your storytelling ability? You know, what are the 3 things that you would want people to remember about you? And really double down on those in your messaging, whether that's through posting on LinkedIn, whether that's through your day-to-day interactions with people. Just showing up consistently as who you are authentically, that's important as well, I think is really the best thing that you can do.

You've talked about a lot of overcoming the challenges and the setbacks and showing discipline. How do you prioritize your own mental health? And wellness as well while running a fast-paced business?

I've used the word values a lot, and, um, it comes down to that. It comes down to knowing what is important to you. I'm certainly guilty in the early days of starting my company of not paying a lot of attention to that because I was so focused on this huge responsibility. I practically went overnight from being an undergrad student to now I'm a startup CEO in a YC-backed startup, so I didn't really have the time to process what that meant for me personally, and I was just so intensely laser-focused on building the company. And so, so I think for, for me it was more of a wake-up call about 2 and a half years into building my company. And it doesn't sound like a huge thing, but I just noticed I was getting ill all the time, just with a common cold. Almost every month I was falling ill. I thought, gosh, like this— I'm working so hard and this is taking time out of my work because I'm just too ill to do anything. This is counterproductive. So it came from like a business thing of like, I am less productive, so what can I do to improve that? But then it made me realize, well, I'm less productive because I'm falling ill because my body cannot cope with the hours that I'm working. It cannot cope with the amount of inactivity that I'm having. And I think personally I'm actually more mentally resilient than I am physically resilient, and I think it's because I have such a great support system. But the body keeps score of when you've worked these incredibly late nights, when you've not moved a muscle, when you've eaten all of the junk food because you've not made time for meals. So a little over a year ago, I kind of had that realization of, gosh, I'm only, you know, 24 years old. Hopefully I have a long career ahead of me. I love what I do, like, I love my job. I love it too much, which is probably why I work too much. But if I want to make this my career and be in it for the long game, I cannot live like this in this unhealthy way. So for me, it was more of a physical thing of now I actually schedule meals into my calendar, I schedule workouts like they're meetings in my calendar, and I don't feel guilty about blocking the time because again, if, if this is going to be my career for the long term, then I have to. And for doing that for a year last year, I didn't fall ill even once. I'm not perfect, I'm still getting there step by step, but for me now, I know that the most important thing to me is my family and my closest relationships. I know the second most important thing to me is my health, and the third is my work and the impact that I'm having. And so just having that clear mindset of these are my values, these are my priorities. And on the flip side, also knowing what I can live without. I can live without my gaming, or maybe like my music, or things like this that I enjoy. And I love hanging out with friends, but at this stage of life, I can't afford to have everything. I have to make some compromises, and I know that I can still be mentally and physically happy without these things, whereas I cannot be mentally and physically happy without my fitness and without my family. So that's why I've prioritize it.

If we go back a little bit to Klairs, if you don't mind, how do you balance short-term success with the long-term resilience of your business?

Yeah, I'm certainly a more long-term thinker. I've never ever really optimized for short-term wins because I believe so deeply that Klairs can be a billion-dollar business. I believe that we can build a huge company. We can be the Strava for skincare or the Flow for skincare. With that in mind, I've I've always been playing the long game, and that's kind of how I approach most challenges in my life. It's, it's about the longer-term wins. You know, in the short term you get accolades, you get recognition, and it feels nice, especially because, as I've kind of touched on, the day-to-day of a founder isn't glamorous. It's a lot more rejection than I think most people realize, and that most people are willing to deal with. You may see the awards or whatever is posted on LinkedIn, but to get there you don't see the 199 rejections and the things that you don't get. So, you know, it's nice to have short-term wins, but for me, I tend to have my long-term goals and then I work back. I can say, for Clear to be a billion-dollar business, these are the steps that we have to take. And then I focus on those shorter-term steps to get me to the longer-term goal.

I've just got a couple more questions for you. We touched a little bit on how you only allow, um, users to take their own photos within the app. On that sort of ethics kind of topic, What ethical considerations should entrepreneurs, and have you as an entrepreneur, kept in mind when leveraging AI?

It's a great question. And, you know, coming back to my personal story with acne, I was so deeply affected by the social media platforms that I was using when I was growing up, and unfortunately they had a real negative impact on me. And so I knew that when I built my own tech company, I, I would be mindful of that, and the ethics would be front and I think at the end of the day though, it's, it's a personal choice. And I don't know if this is necessarily the right thing to say, but people have different reasons for becoming entrepreneurs. Not everyone is impact-driven. You know, some people are purely financially driven, and who am I to make a moral judgment about that? You know, we live in a capitalist society. Some people are more driven by money than by other things. And then once we've grown to this scale, we're gonna start like going back on what we've said. It's about being dead clear that as we scale, we will continue to have these firm boundaries in place. And if that means I'm not going to secure your investment, then you are the wrong investor for me, and it was nice to meet you. Goodbye. And so I think just, you know, from the outset, communicating that is, is important. And when it comes to AI, of course we have things like data privacy, and regulation will always take more time to catch up with the tech. So for a lot of us founders, it's kind of like the Wild West using AI because it's not properly regulated. And you as the founder have to make a lot of these executive decisions on what is ethical as far as it comes to handling the data. And so that's where I'd say, like, even just talking to other founders— and it doesn't have to be formal, I'm not saying that you need to sit down at a formal roundtable and discuss AI and ethics— it's even when you're just catching up with a founder friend over dinner, asking about their approach starting conversations, just talking about it openly so that you can get ideas for what other people are doing and how they are handling this sort of contentious debate and problem.

Perhaps I'm going to finish with two questions on legacy. What's the legacy you want to leave behind as both a leader and an innovator?

I think on the, on the innovation standpoint, something that I am extremely passionate about is this sort of notion of using education as a tool to empower. So, so I think, you know, if I could inspire others who have been born with similar levels of privilege, who have great supportive families, access to a great education, to just think about their careers as an opportunity to have an impact, I think that that's really one thing I'd like to, to leave behind. And the second, from a more leadership perspective, is more focused on female entrepreneurship. I think one of the biggest challenges of my founder journey also has has been being a female founder, which is not something I envisaged when I was much younger. I was always of the opinion— I'm not even much younger— when I started my founder journey age 21, I always thought it doesn't matter that I'm a woman, you know, which we should be judged on the output of our work. And what I realized as I navigated my journey, particularly through the experience of raising venture capital, it's not the same experience and it's not a level playing field. And no matter how hard I try, I will not be perceived in the same way that my male counterparts are received. And when you put human society into perspective, it's only recent that women even came into the workforce. It's amazing what women are achieving given how recently we've had rights to do things, but there is so much more room for improvement. And I think as a woman, I know that you experience even more challenges when you go into business. So again, if my story can inspire even one woman going through a tough time hearing no after no after no from investors. If they can hear my story and know that I heard the same thing but I kept going, I stayed resilient, and that's why I'm here talking about my company, talking about the impact that we're having, and frankly building the company of my dreams, then that's also a success to me.

How do you hope your journey inspires the next generation of young entrepreneurs?

Yeah, it's, it's really what I just alluded to about resilience and hearing directly that it's not It's not easy. It's not easy for anyone. As a young, specifically female, entrepreneur, it will be even harder, and that's normal. It's not hard because you're bad at it. It's hard because it's testament to the fact that what you're doing is hard, and you should expect it to be, to be hard. It's hard to make a change. It's hard to have an impact, but you've chosen to do something hard. That's admirable, and you should keep going.

Thank you for listening to the very first episode of Building Resilient Futures. If you enjoyed this, there's lots more to come, so please do keep an eye out on our socials. Thank you very much.