The Joy And Doom Of New San Francisco - EP 55 Jayden Clark

to me it felt like that, you know, the hype was around media. Everyone was spinning up their new interview series. They were, you know, whether it be like a fund or even startups at this point, right? Taking on a whole media team. And it felt very samey, you know? It's like, I'm not gonna go ahead and like name like startups or whatever, like with media arms that do this. But to me it just felt, I felt like I was seeing a pattern of like the same interview with the same founders saying the exact same thing. Because these founders, they go and they're raising and they're saying the exact same thing to the exact same VC.

Yeah.

And they're going to be doing the podcast rounds in the lead up to raising funds or, you know, a product announcement, all these sorts of things. And I think with that, you also kind of, you get locked by comms teams, especially if you want to go after like bigger and bigger guests, right? Like you're having to run things by comms, like all of these sorts of things. And again, these are all just people that are just doing their jobs. So definitely can't fault them. But I felt like it was a— Oh yeah, you can.

I can. Yes.

You said it, not me.

Hello, I'm Kiley Robinson, a writer for Core Memory. This is a very special episode because it's my first time hosting alone, and I brought the best person to do it with, Jaiden. Jaiden, how are you? Please introduce yourself. I'm doing okay.

I just walked through an entire construction site, uh, and I was escorted off the site by a construction manager. He was very, very nice, by the way. But we're pretty good.

Perfect. Good.

I'm feeling pretty good. It's just a great day to be alive in the center of the universe.

In the center of the universe. And for the listener with a keen ear, you sound otherworldly, perhaps Australian. Yeah. Please tell me more about that.

Tell me— tell you more about Australia.

Perhaps, perhaps that, or, um, How an Australian Ended Up in the Center of the Universe.

Goodness gracious. I mean, my, my story is fake, really. I mean, it really is. Like, like, I feel like if you were to sort of, you know, ask somebody, how can you build like the fakest kind of character? Just like, just the most sort of— I don't know, my, my, my, my story doesn't really make sense. Uh, but like, I moved here just straight up out of high school. This is like, went to performing arts high school in my little town of Wollongong. Wollongong, Australia, so 2 hours south of Sydney. And yeah, just kind of wanted to play saxophone for a living. So people, I don't know, people on X.com, the everything app, I think they've probably been seeing little glimpses of this, this other alter ego or what would have probably been my original ego.

Yeah.

But yeah, that's what originally got me to the US was actually playing saxophone. So moved to San Francisco at age 19 to go to the Conservatory of Music.

Which is crazy. And a little bit more about you. You're a podcaster.

You—

it's such a slur.

I wish, you know, I, I, I like to call it like a glorified consultant. Yeah, that's kind of what I tell, you know, that's what I like to tell women if I ever, you know, make a, you know, get the, get the urge to even speak to one. But as people probably know that I only, I can only really do this on podcasts. Uh, what people probably don't know is I was actually non-verbal until, uh, we started recording.

That's exactly right. Um, So tell me more about how you got into podcasting from playing the saxophone. How did we get here?

Yeah, I think it was like, you know, it's like a very, very natural career path of, you know, jazz saxophone, did a little bit of time at a hedge fund, you know, straight out of music school. So go figure that it's just pretty stereotypical career path. You know, then went to back to music publishing, did a lot of content, you know, with my old teacher, sort of like worked with his music publishing startup making what's called jazz lesson videos, a really, really nice YouTube channel. Still, they're still going, still going like publishing digital resources, all of those sorts of things, like making a lot of jazz tutorials. Then naturally decided to do a B2B SaaS startup. And so, you know, built that in both Sydney and, you know, moved back to San Francisco at the beginning of last year permanently to build that. And then, yeah, so, and then, you know, naturally leads you to podcasting. So just again, stereotypical career path, pretty just straight out of the book. But I think like, I think how I, ended up starting it, right? Or like even thinking about wanting to do it was, you know, just like doing little bits of work, you know, like helps TVPN a little bit in the early days, you know, working with guys like Brent Liang, obviously close with guys like, well, I mean, obviously he's at A16Z now, Eric Torenberg. And it was sort of got to the point in which I had sort of all these people in my ear. It's like, oh, maybe you should do a show. Maybe this is like a better fit for you. Like I know Eric was always saying like, man, you should have a show. Like you should do a show. And I always felt like a bit kind of embarrassed imposter syndrome. It's like, it's like, what have I really— like, what have I done? You know, I'm like this 27-year-old, you know, single, now unemployed basically, guy. Uh, like, what, what would I even have to say?

That's every podcaster ever, so you're in great company.

Just to join the club.

But you're, you're really underselling yourself actually, because I was fishing for that, right? Perfect. So you were just featured in The Times. You've had like a slate of other like features in big publications. Can you remind me?

Oh, there's The New blocker. That was, that was a, that was a funny one. Kyle, uh, Kyle's article. Yeah, speaking to him a bunch, uh, that was on the, the permanent underclass, which, you know, I, I can't say that I necessarily coined. I think, um, and, you know, it's kind of funny, like, I had a few people sort of yelling at me. It's like, oh no, like, like, this was you, this was you, like, please, like, uh, but I, I think my, my contribution to that was more sort of along the lines of, like, you know, you have 2 years to accumulate capital. Yes, right. And so, like, the whole idea of, like, AGI 2027, and so I just thought it was would be really funny to just like post a series of tweets for weeks on end just referencing like, you know, you have 2 years to accumulate capital to escape the permanent underclass. And now of course, now with Claude Code, all of these sorts of things, that discourse has kind of come back actually.

Yeah.

It's kind of interesting how it comes in waves.

Yes. You are really good at a consistent format, which I love. All right.

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We met at, I think it was the 4th of July party last year, and that was also in the Times, the peptides. Cool. And we're just a part of this, like, being in your 20s San Francisco world where you can end up in the New Yorker because you made a meme. And I just wanted to dive into that more because I think it can be really insular. And sometimes when a legacy publication covers it, like, for example, uh, the Arena or Cerebral Valley, uh, it's sort of this bird's eye view of what we're doing out here. And I think it's a lot weirder and dumber and more fun in all the ways. So I just wanted to explain that. Um, going back, TBPN, tell me what you did with TBPN. Yeah.

So I mean, like really just like honestly tried to help them, Brent, you know, work directly with Brent, just, just, uh, you know, just doing, just helping them with their clipping strategy. Right. And any other, any other help that I could give, you know, just, just in the, in the very early days. Um, so, you know, I mean, I, it's like, I guess I'm sort of like vaguely associated with them for, for a period. Uh, you know, I think to take to take much credit for, for, you know, what, how, what they've become and, you know, what they've turned into. That would, I think that'd be wrong to do. But, you know, obviously, like, just, just happy to have, you know, played a, played a really, really small part in, you know, in sort of what they have become because they are a juggernaut now. And, you know, and as, as you know, they're great guys, like, like big, big, big fans. And, you know, I hope to go down to LA and just, just catch up with them, like, see, see what their studio is like now.

Yeah.

Lots of things. But yeah, just kind of, I think like You know, and I think from then it was sort of, yeah, just, just people reaching out. It's like, okay, well maybe. And then it sort of made me believe like, oh, maybe the media thing is the thing that I should do. And again, it's only been 4 months since I've been doing it.

So 4 months is crazy. It was like 4 years. 4 years. I bet. I mean, we were unemployed at the same time and real and watching you and partaking. I went on an episode of MOTS when I was deeply unemployed. It was really fun.

And it was about unemployment.

And it was about unemployment.

Thank you.

Now we're doing it. I mentioned you on the last podcast. I said Jade responded to my tweet, unemployed light. Uh, but yeah, so tell me more about your podcast, Members of Technical Staff, MOTS. Uh, what do you do on the podcast? What do you talk about? What's the goal?

Yeah, I think the goal, the goal is to be neither timely nor timeless, right? It's like, like some, somewhere in between, uh, because I think, you know, I, I think like, like I was kind of mentioning, I mean, I, I, I don't think I've I think I've done enough in which I can have takes on stuff, but I've also not done enough in which I can necessarily, in which I feel confident in being like a source of truth all the time. You know, obviously you can do your own research and I think you can, I think it's good to be overprepared as any host of any show. But, you know, I think that the cool position that I'm in, especially, you know, with my Twitter account, these sorts of things, is that I've managed to build up a decent following. With some just really, really great minds. And so, you know, I know an audience is there for my antics. Yeah, whatever you want to call it, mental illness. So there is an audience there for it. And I think, you know, I think for me, I really thought about it. To me, it felt like a lot of tech media especially was just kind of fitting into like a— it was like a box, right? It's like, to me, it felt like that, you know, the hype was around media. Everyone was spinning up their new interview series. They were, you know, whether it be like a fund or even startups at this point, right? Taking on a whole media team. And it felt very samey, you know? It's like, I'm not gonna go ahead and like name like startups or whatever, like with media arms that do this. But to me, it just felt, I felt like I was seeing a pattern of like the same interview with the same founders saying the exact same thing. Because these founders, they go and they're raising and they're saying the exact same thing to the exact same VC. Yeah. And they're gonna be doing the podcast rounds in the lead up to raising funds or, you know, a product announcement or all this. Those sorts of things. And I think with that, you also kind of, you get locked by comms teams, especially if you want to go after like bigger and bigger guests, right?

Yeah.

Having to run things by comms, like all of these sorts of things. And again, these are all just people that are just doing their jobs. Yeah. So definitely can't fault them. But I felt like it was a— Oh yeah, you can.

I can. Yes.

You said it, not me.

But I think that's coming from like a traditional media background into this new media environment. And you're joining like the rooms of podcasters and as you mentioned, this box. So tell me more about like making this new thing and making it something you enjoy because you're putting like everything into this.

Totally. Yeah. I think for me, I don't know, I just, I thought what TVPN was really, really awesome because I, and I actually find my favorite bits of TVPN is actually when just John and Jordy go back and forth and they're like, have their takes. I actually think that is the magic of it. So, you know, I think their integration of the timeline, That is magical, right? That they were the first to even do it. And I'm really, really glad that they still have that as sort of like a core part of their show, right? Really speaking to their, their core early audience, if you want to talk about it like that. And obviously, you know, I've taken some elements of that, again, not necessarily timely, like I might go ahead and pick a topic that I find funny or I find culturally relevant. And of course, you know, that's, that's why I'm always trying to say it's like this is San Francisco niche technology culture podcasting, right? It's trying to make it like the longest run-on sort of like sentence descriptor possible.

Yes.

But, you know, I think, you know, to really talk about that and, you know, I'm really just going after like a few thousand people that also happen to control a large amount of, you know, just represents a large GDP.

Yes. Yes. It's kind of weird. Like you've seen the joke where like, oomph is in office.

Yeah.

Like when JD Vance became the vice president, people were like, that's oomph, which is one of my followers. It's who's in control, which it's like, it's so funny for us. And we were talking about this in the Peptides pod. It's just sort of like Oh wow, it feels so funny and stupid. I'm going to parties with people and then they're like heads of state, uh, which is just bizarre. But okay, going back to the, the podcast, what are some topics you've dove into in like the niche world of San Francisco?

Yep. So the very first one was San Francisco parties, right? It's just like, just one that you— that's just— that is a timeless topic, right? I say timely nor timeless. I would say that that is a timeless topic, again, in a city with about 800,000 people. And so, you know, you got the stereotypes, like, you know, everybody taking their shoes off, right? The girls ruining their fits because they like to pair their fits with particular shoes. Um, half empty, like, sparkling waters, like, yeah, Coriol Spindrifts. Nobody really drinking, everybody just kind of asking, what are you building? Really just trying to, like, tap into the stereotypes. Of course, that was with Madison when she did the Enforced Ratio party.

Yeah.

And that's—

that— explain that more because I don't think our audience is going to know what Enforced Ratio is.

Pretty niche already.

Yes, that's important, but please, what was Enforced Ratio?

Yeah, Enforced Ratio. So, so it was, uh, you know, organized by, by Madison. So she had just moved to the city and You know, she had a group chat called the Seven Girls of SF, right? And obviously, like another one of those San Francisco stereotypes is that there are quote unquote no women in SF. Now, of course, a bunch of us, we like to debunk this on the timeline, right? The X.com, the everything app timeline all the time. But it was one of those things in which, again, you go to a technology-centric party and oftentimes it's like, you know, the ratio is like 9 to 1 men to women, right? And then obviously you go even deeper, technology, mostly male-dominated field, etc., etc., all those sorts of things. And so, you know, Madison tried to buck that trend, but very, very, very deliberately by calling it enforced ration. So that's what she did. She enforced a 50/50 ratio, carefully calibrated. And yeah, it ended up being really, really cool. And so, you know, I think that legacy kind of, kind of lives on, right? It's like, and now like the 7 girls of SF has become a meme of its own, right? It's like just a big group chat of all the girls. Well, not all the girls.

Yeah.

A couple of hundred. Again, Madison can speak to that a little better than I can because I'm not in the group chat.

I think one of my signals is in that group chat, but, um, one of your—

one of my signals, one of my military-grade—

exactly, to talk to girls in San Francisco.

Yeah, that's what I need actually.

Yeah, so like the parties thing I find really fascinating. I guess I wanted to dive into that a little bit more. You, you also make great content, you, about these parties because you did the, um, the all girls and just you and Theo.

I wish I did that. I must say Yeah, I've got to add a disclaimer.

Please.

That was, uh, so, so, so, uh, Madison, uh, wanted for that to happen. She messaged me, thought it'd be really, really funny.

Yeah.

And I said it would be very, very funny. Um, and I just kind of like made as like many sort of cautions as possible. I was like, just, you know, check with everybody. If you want me to come, I'll come. Obviously I don't want to be, I don't want to be intruding on a space, all those sorts of things. But, you know, ended up being there and it was hilarious. I, I, I'm glad it was, you know. I feel like, I feel like it's, it's one of those things in which, uh, I, I've, uh, I've tried to be very, very careful with timelines, like just playing into like the, you know, I'm terrified of women, it's like how do they let me in, all these sorts of things. But yeah, very, very funny. Um, turns out it was really great for my career. Yeah, so perfect. We take the wins.

Perfect.

The wins. Uh, but yeah, very, very timeline native.

Uh, you know, we'll see if that bit lives And, you know, you've lived many other places. You are a very storied 27-year-old man, honestly. Appreciate it. So what makes San Francisco parties so unique and weird? Or are we just in a bubble and we think we're so important? Like, what makes it so sort of bizarre?

No, I think it's weird.

Yeah.

No, I think it's totally weird. I think it's like, I mean, again, I think the obviously like the, I think especially the ones that we find ourselves.

Yeah.

Right. If we're going to sort of like stand on it, like, like sit on our high horse for a second.

Sure.

You know, those that are especially those that are all like very Twitter native. Again, it is, I would say the, the, the, the Twitter circle is a bit more of a bubble than necessarily, uh, say the whole of SF, right? Because again, we've got like, uh, it's going to be sort of like the same 50 to 100 people. And kind of like you said, there might be some people that are actually kind of important. Maybe they're actually talking to heads of state, or, you know, they're, they have, uh, you know, they've already had like 3 or 4 exits, uh, or, you know, it's just people with a few hundred thousand followers on X, and they might go ahead and say something that's to do with that particular event, and then other people that were there. And it's just like, we— like, the people that we end up hanging out with at these particular events, they have like this pull on the timeline, this cultural pull.

Yeah.

Um, and again, it sort of comes back to that, that, that audience, right? It's like that audience capture. It's like, okay, well, maybe they're only speaking to a few thousand people, um, or a few thousand people, uh, will only get it. But those few thousand people, they tend to be pretty wealthy and they tend to be making decisions. And so with all that, you have kind of like neuroticism.

Yes.

Maybe some autism. You know what I mean? It's sort of like a buzz term now. I think like everyone, everyone's autistic now, right? Or self-proclaimed autistic. Yes, exactly. More importantly. But, you know, you end up, you end up with some interesting characters, right? It's like maybe those that are not so great with with, with, with social cues, right? Uh, or, you know, all of those different things, the shoes off, all of those different stereotypes. So I know, I think it is, I think it is particularly weird. Oh, another one, uh, is the themed parties. Oh yeah, like the peptide rave. Yeah, like, um, you know, I, I have friends that are throwing like fruit-themed.

Yeah, yeah. Well, the kiwi party where you had a kiwi party dragged on the timeline. Yes, it did. I was only there briefly. So for an explanation, uh, I'm trying to decide if we can say whose party it was. Did Dylan Patel tweet about it? Okay, sorry, editors. So we were at a party at Dylan Patel's house, which is also Dwarkesh and Sholto's. These are, you know, AI people, Twitter people in the space, and they have this very nice house and they threw this party that was Kiwi themed and it got dragged on the timeline because people were like, this is for toddlers, right? People— I saw it and I was like, my God, once it escapes containment out of our little bubble, people are like, what the fuck? Oh, another one. Performative. Coding at the bar, performative, doing math at the party on a little sheet of paper. Once that escapes containment, that's what people think they are.

You get the classic, you know, the classic quote tweet dunk of nuke San Francisco.

Yes.

Right. It happens over and over again.

Yes.

And so, you know, I mean, that seems to be the sentiment when these sorts of things escape containment. But, you know, we've got to find a, we've got to, every single time we seem to just find a way to make it kind of weird, but I don't know, I have a good time, you know? I mean, I spend a lot of time on, on, on Mott's sort of, you know, either maybe, maybe slightly dunking, but I do remember actually vehemently defending the Kiwi Party.

Yeah, right.

Because I was like, wow, like people seem to be going unreasonably hard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it was an easy dunk and very much so. I don't know. I personally, having been to a bunch of these things ranging from really fucking weird to just sort of someone doing math in a corner or Legos or whatever.

What I wouldn't give. Capitalitism.

Exactly. I find it really endearing. I think that people really mean well. I'd take that over like some sort of LA influencer kind of Hollywood vibes. That's the sort of range in my head. But yeah, there's like this very endearing energy and these people also tend to be building really weird shit. There's biotech, AI, robotics, all sorts of stuff, and they love to talk about it. And yeah, it's just a different scene now than perhaps perhaps somebody's listening who lived here 10 years ago, which was like, you know, some dot-com bubble burst post.

Yeah, like, I mean, I was here during the cloud time. I mean, even, even, even, you know, just, just, just pre-COVID, right? It's like I was living sort of like in that mid-market corridor near where the Twitter headquarters used to be, right? Uber, Square, Dolby is still there, I think. And it's just like, you know, I was obviously I was at art school, so everything kind of felt all fresh and whatever. But basically, you know, like, like it kind of felt box-like, you know, it was the same sort of thing with like the prompt engine, like prompt engineers a couple of years ago where it's like, oh, you know, if you just, if you, if you become good at prompting, you can go ahead and make like $300K at say XLab or whatever.

Yeah.

But it was a similar sort of thing in the cloud time where it's like, oh, you know, if you just learn how to engineer the cloud or some shit.

Yeah.

You become a cloud guy. You can go ahead and make $300K at Google, right? There were like courses on like cloud or cloud engineering. And, you know, like, like sales, like, like Dreamforce was like the hot thing. And, you know, like there's sort of like these like mid-level executives walking around. It's like, it was very, it felt very, very stale. I mean, I, you know, I would say that now feels much, much more exciting, right? Like the AI thing, I don't know. Seems like there's optimism in the air. Obviously, you know, I'm going to much more events than I was when I was in art school. But at the same time, right, it's like, I think, you know, to even bring it back to the parties, right, it's like everybody's doing some cool thing. A lot of the people tend to be, wealthy or even those that are unemployed. Again, it's sort of like what we spoke about on MOTS, right? It's like, it's more like, oh, congratulations, you're unemployed, right? It's not like a, like this bad thing. It's like, oh, you must be exploring something. Like, oh, what are you like, what are you checking out? What are you thinking next?

Right? Yeah.

It's like, you know, everybody's either wealthy or unemployed or, but, but I guess where I'm going with this is like no one really has anything to prove, at least, at least at the events that I try to go to.

Right, right.

Maybe it might be different if you go to some like corporate Luma thing.

Yeah.

It's like corporate Luma.

Luma thing. That's also like, it's so funny because I'm thinking of all the niche bullshit that I would love to explain. Uh, the Luma versus Partyful. Uh, Partyful invites tend, they tend to be more fun, and Luma invites are corporate. Uh, the Peptide Rave was a Luma invite, and, um, Burb, the, the host, she was getting dragged for it on the timeline. She's like, she's like, I couldn't, you know, uh, do this many people with a Partyful and blah blah blah. It was very funny. So it's just like sort of niche stuff like that that make up this, this town and you skipped town from the pandemic era, right?

Yeah. So I was, I left right at the end of 2020. So I actually, I was here sort of for the brunt of it, right? You know, and yeah, like ended up going back to Australia for a little bit and sort of, you know, spent a few years spending more time in Sydney, Australia than San Francisco. But I mean, I think, yeah, I managed to spend enough time in the city to sort of really see this sort of AI wave bubble, whatever you want to call let it really come of age. I really thought like 2022 was particularly interesting, sort of that pre-ChatGPT era, because I think you had to be a little strange to have stuck through San Francisco through that period.

Yes.

You know, there was some, you know, there was some, it was just interesting times. I don't know, every time that we live in, it seems to be interesting times now, but that time in particular where the city really felt, I don't know, just down and out.

Totally.

2021 felt down and out even. A lot of 2022, the city felt down and out. Um, so yeah, for you to stick around San Francisco, you had to chip on your shoulder, be a little strange. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah. I, I moved here in 2021 and— right, yeah, pretty strange. It was— I'm pretty strange. Uh, I think like, yeah, it is different. I was young, you know, I was real. I had just turned 23 and, you know, it was COVID times. I didn't really know much else else could happen. People were always complaining that there wasn't any parties anymore. I was like, I don't know, like, this is just— this is life now. But now it really does— it feels like there's multiple party fools every weekend, all the time, constantly. Yes. Um, and yeah, I don't know, you, you've bounced in and out of San Francisco, but I really feel like no one understands it. And I don't want to say you take it seriously, but you do, like, sort of like—

well, it's my— it's my full-time job, whether you want to call what I do a job. It's my full-time job. I know I have to. It's like, like I've, I've, I've, I've tied myself to the timeline in this city.

Yes.

I don't know whether that's a good thing.

We'll, we'll get to see. I enjoy that. But I think like that's my pet niche, which is sort of documenting the weirdness of this time. And I can never tell if it's like I'm on my high horse and it's not that interesting, but then you're in the New Yorker, you're in the New York Times, all this weird stuff, like people actually want to know. And I'm curious, like what's the weirdest party? What's the weirdest gossip? Like what's the weird, true weird shit you've seen? And it can't be peptides, unfortunately.

I know.

Well, it's the, it's the the first one.

It's the first one that comes to mind, really.

It was good.

God, it's, it's such, it's such a good question. I mean, you know, I think there's like a lot of really easy ones where, you know, if you maybe you get into like, I don't know, the, the polyamory stuff or whatever, like, but even then, like, I feel I'm so far removed even from that. I mean, not a rationalist, they're gonna come after me, but I feel like that's more of an East Bay thing, Berkeley thing. Yes, yes, not really my thing. I don't know.

It's—

it really is so hard for me to go past the peptide thing because, you know, I was sort of a part of those conversations even before, say, July 4th, right? Which is what, you know, Jasmine and I spoke about, obviously what Jasmine, you know, wrote about in The New York Times. And, you know, I think I do feel like that will continue to get weirder. Yeah, I do think it will continue to get weirder just because it's like, you know, we're always looking for shortcuts in Silicon Valley. We're always looking for shortcuts. We like— we believe in like that magic magic pill, right? It's like, like, you know, so many people here have grown up, uh, or, you know, and continue to read, you know, the sci-fi stories, all of these sorts of things. Um, I do think, you know, I think on that, I, I've always thought that the whole discourse around the, the AI thing to be really, really strange. That's where I feel like it is a bubble.

Yeah.

Um, and I've been thinking about it like a lot recently because, you know, obviously going back to Sydney, Australia, especially a place like Bondi Beach, for example, she's like the hottest people in the world.

Yes.

Um, and they all tend to be like relatively successful.

Yeah.

Um, you know, Sydney, it's, it's an expensive place, right? You gotta be doing something to stay afloat in Sydney. But, you know, it's not like, you know, Claude Code is AGI, like no one cares. No one cares, like, right? They're like going to the beach, they're jacked, like super, super fit. You know, they might be like working, I don't know, like Big Four. Maybe they're like a lawyer or a doctor or something. But like, there is no such thing as like Claude Code is AGI, right? There's no such thing as like, oh yeah, permanent underclass in 2 years. That is what feels like the bubble here. And, you know, I always like, I always think about how these labs especially have like, you know, whether it be like marketed themselves, like the AI leaders coming out and saying like, you know, 1 to 5 years, everybody's like 20% unemployment. That's what Dario has been saying along those lines. Or, you know, Sam Altman posting the Death Star. And then obviously all the rhetoric in San Francisco, you know, whether it be like, you know, groups of researchers. Yeah, I hang out with lots of research friends. We have lots of researcher friends who are at at these labs. Um, and you know, like, I think, I think they're, they're honest and I think, and I do think they're all like doing their life's work, but I do wonder how productive it is to sort of be talking like that, whether it's like, you know, whether there's an agenda behind it. You know, I don't necessarily want to like lay claim to that, but that to me has always felt like the weirdest thing because I just don't think that that's how the real world works. I just think the real world always takes a really, really long time to catch up.

Yeah.

And things don't happen, you know, like that. Yeah. So a bit of a tangent, but I think aside from peptides, that's always the thing that I'm thinking about is, yeah, how far off the rails have we gone here? And maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm wrong and everything changes in 6 months and like, I don't know, we're properly unemployed because we have permanent underclass, you have podcasting or some shit.

Exactly.

Could happen.

But yeah, I, you know, in my slight doom era, I was quite concerned about the automation of the workforce. And I think that's something that's really escaped containment because it's talked about by these leaders on world stages.

Yeah.

Constantly.

Davos, what, is this still happening right now?

No, I, I don't know. Check the timeline. They're gonna be tweeting about it. Yeah. I met Matt Damon. Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think like that is sort of like what you're speaking to. I don't know if you experienced this. Once you leave the bubble, people are like, is AI gonna kill us? That's something I get all the time. Yeah. Once I leave the bubble, is it gonna kill us? Is it gonna take our jobs? And it's sort of like, like, you know, a Will DePew tweet making it to my grandpa's phone for some reason. And I'm like, dude, I, I don't— it, it continues to shock me how much this little bubble impacts the rest of the world.

Yes, exactly.

Um, so yeah, I think that the permanent underclass thing was a perfect thing for The New Yorker to write about because it's a really great joke, really great bit. But man, things, things are weird. They continue to get weirder. We got Cloud Cowork now.

Yes, yes. And, you know, and the resurgence of the permanent underclass thing, right? Because it's kind of like every— I mean, you I don't necessarily want to put a time period on it because I do think 2025 felt, you know, there was some cynicism starting to creep in, right? There was some, there were doubters, right? There were, you know, like from the crypto era, there's some FUD, you know, fear, uncertainty, doubt. And, you know, obviously Claude, Claude Code, Claude Opus 4.5 and Claude Code being AGI, you know, people not being able to shut up about it. So, you know, shut up, babe. You know, I'm just vibe coding my, you know, one person, $1 billion B2B SaaS app. You know, we can do that now. Or something. And it's like, you know, that it's just another, yet another step change. And, you know, odds are that, you know, the rhetoric ends up dying down. People get used to it. You know, obviously TBPN, you know, they famously have the goalposts now. The goalpost prop. So the goalposts continue to get moved.

Yeah.

AGI, the definition changes. And then we all go back to sort of being a little bit cynical, fear, uncertainty, doubt, whatever.

Yeah.

It does feel like, it does feel like a, you know, continuing cycle, right? It's like, and then, you know, like, like fucking Deloitte or somebody will go ahead and add 3% to their headcount.

Yeah.

You know, it's like, oh, cool. Well, we've expanded the Deloitte headcount. Everybody was saying that they were going to be automated. Well, no, they're just consulting on AI projects now.

Yeah.

Right. And they need more because some Fortune 500 CEO has been, or some Fortune 500 board has been like, cool, we need to do the AI thing. Let's get in KPMG. Let's get Accenture to do to it, right? And so I don't know, this is my cynicism starting to creep out. But yeah, I'm actually just concerned that, you know, you're going to have both sides of, especially in the US, you're going to have both sides of the government really railing against AI and technology.

Totally.

Just because I just don't think we in Silicon Valley are doing a good enough job of conveying it to the layperson.

Yeah.

So we're getting pretty technical, getting—

Look at us.

God forbid, God forbid a niche San Francisco technology podcast to have a take.

Wow. Good for you. Good for you for having a take. And you entering media at a time where permanent underclass, you could be totally fucked with me.

Yeah.

Which is great.

I could think of worse things, but worse people to be, to be, to be screwed with.

Thank God. I need some buddies out here.

Since day one, the Core Memory Podcast has been supported by the fine people at E1 Ventures. They are a young and ambitious VC firm in Silicon Valley investing in young and ambitious companies and people. People. Thank you so much to E1 Ventures for all your support.

You know, new media is sort of this buzzy term in San Francisco right now. We have the YC New Media, A16Z New Media, everything's new media. And you were just adopted into the first class, right, of A16Z New Media? Um, it was so funny seeing that list. I was talking to a girlfriend because I saw like someone I know from OpenAI Comms, uh, Logan Kilpatrick on the Gemini team. I was like, what actually is this. So can you tell us, um, why you applied, what, what this even is, all that?

Yeah, so I mean, obviously, like, my, my selling point with that is Brent and Eric, right? Obviously, like, Brent Liang and Eric Torenberg, um, those who are sort of spearheading this effort at A16z. Of course, you know, Brent did God's work at TBPN as well. Like, really, really, I do think, I do think they are some of the best to do it. Um, and so, yeah, my, my thing was like, oh cool, they're doing a thing anything will probably be good.

Yeah.

And it's as simple as that for me. I think, um, you know, like, it's, it's funny because, yeah, I mean, I saw the list too and I was like, wow, like, you're putting me with these guys? This guy runs Gemini. Like, I'm just the guy that, like, well, now has been posting girlfriend posts who doesn't have a girlfriend on the timeline.

Wow.

Um, great bit. And so, you know, and it's like, is this technology? I don't really know. Um, but, you know, I think what, what it really feels like is that is, is sort of, again, kind of, kind of what we've been talking about, right? It's like, um, those with some sort of cultural pull and sort of trying to collate them, right? Collate them into some sort of cohort, right? You know, talk about this sort of stuff. I mean, obviously they're making the joke where it's like, okay, the fellowship for the terminally online.

Yes.

You know, I've sort of been making that joke too.

Yeah.

But yeah, no, I'm just really, I'm really excited to just kind of, well, communicate and collaborate with those that are in the same spaces as me, really. Yeah. And I do think a lot of companies, a lot of, you know, even companies that, you know, that I work with, you know, even, even outside of MOTS, right? Or even, you know, some of the MOTS sponsors, right?

Yeah.

You know, they, they, they want to work with me because they're taking X, X.com, the everything app, super seriously, right? It's becoming, you know, as much as we all have our critiques of the algorithm, I tend to prefer, you know, a lot of what, what Twitter or X was as opposed to now. But in terms of, you know, releasing your product, right? If you're a tech company releasing a product, if you're a tech company selling to other tech companies, if you're somebody who wants to quote unquote build in public or whatever the hell we call that now, it's still a really, really good place to do so, especially if you're going for other people in tech, right? I think, you know, if you're selling to like a business, right? If you're going for some brick and mortar mom and pop businesses or whatever, maybe you're selling to some like middle manager at a, you know, at a, I don't know, at a slightly larger company. They're probably not spending much time on X. They're probably spending more time on LinkedIn. But the cool people seem to still be on X. And I do think that's what this effort is about. It's like, okay, well, all of these companies, A16Z, Portco's, you know, and beyond, right? They're taking X more seriously because they realize that is a viable channel in order to go after other people in tech, other tech companies, tech startups as well.

Yeah.

So, you know, we both have friends properly working YC and A16Z New Media. And I've asked multiple times what they actually do. And I've been told, I've been told, and I still don't I don't think I know what they do. So you're gonna share Portco stuff? Like, how does this work? Do you even know yet? So fresh.

Um, you know, I, I think, I think it really is just a means of collaboration, you know? I, I think it's just a means of collaboration with those that are also on the timeline. At least to me, on the surface, that's what it looks like. That's honestly as much as I can really say, just because I don't really know. I mean, I do think it does feel to me kind of like what I was saying, right? It's like there just seems to be this effort, right? Whether it be startups themselves spinning up a media arm. I don't think that that's the right way to go, but you know, we see it happen all the time. Or, you know, a VC fund spinning up a media arm, right? Like this idea that attention, right? It's like everybody can build the thing now, or, you know, so people are saying. I would still debate that as a former engineer that I don't think everybody can vibe code a billion-dollar business right now with Claude Code. I still don't think that is the case. You can get a leg up for sure. Um, but, you know, the idea that, okay, well, if software is being commoditized, if everybody can build this thing, then it's going to be about the distribution. And so it's just about, I think startups now, uh, VC firms now, they're making a bet on X. They're making a bet that X is the way to do it if they're selling to other tech companies. And so I think that's really what this sort of effort seems to be, right? So cool. We're just, we're just here riding the wave.

Yeah. And as someone who's joined like sort of this new media, independent media life. I am sort of trying to rack my brain. This was also an article, if you recall. I think it was The Journal that was like, you know, hiring journalists as storytellers. Do you remember that discourse?

It got shot down so quickly because we started— we just started making fun of it.

Exactly.

Started ripping it apart on the timeline. Like, storyteller just became, you know, it went from the article to becoming a slur in less than 24 hours.

Yes, very natural.

Nobody's heard about about it since.

And I'm not gonna lie, I did not read that article, but I saw all the— yes, the worst people in the world.

Yeah, but it would never be caught dead consuming content, only creating it.

Um, but you know, the— this, this world we're living in, uh, the new media world, I'm trying to rack my brain for like why this transition happened, why people want to own a little media arm. And I think it's like grabbing for that attention, seeing these independent creators like, you know, on YouTube have these big audiences able to tell of like a very compelling story in a way that like traditionally you have to go through rooms of comms people and then reporters and editors to get like some version of your story out. So now it's like more about owning it, I think.

Yes. Yeah. And I think, you know, I mean, I'm starting to get into like pseudoscience-y kind of stuff, but I mean, I do think there is a bit of a correlation to sort of like Meta ads falling off, for example, in terms of a strategy for distribution. And, you know, there is just, there's so many software companies now. There's so many VC-backed software companies now. So, you know, and there's, so much VC money floating around, right? And so more startups, more software, also a lot more people willing to pay for software, right? Which is also, you know, a great thing for software companies. And so, you know, I really do think, I mean, part of it's just like differentiating yourself, right? Part of it's attention, right? I think, you know, the whole, the whole Clue.ly thing, right? I mean, we kind of, we kind of saw how that strategy played out. I mean, it turns out you still do need a, a working product for the attention thing to actually work.

Right.

Um, but you know, I think, I just think we're still sort of in that, in that exploration phase as to like, okay, well, does the startup spinning up the media arm, does that work? Is that the right way to go?

Or are we better to, billboards are making a comeback, you know, big, big comeback, huge comeback. Yes.

And so it's like, okay, and then what does, what does the pricing look on say like a billboard campaign, you know, coming from SFO to San Francisco?

Yeah.

Like what is, what does that look like? Or maybe maybe if we're going after X, maybe you end up sponsoring somebody like me who just says a bunch of shit online. But, you know, like, you know, Dylan Field, for example, like, I'm just listing off one of my best friends. You have to know that he's my best friend because it says follows you on X.com and everything out. That's how you know we're best friends. But, you know, like, you know, I mean, I joke, but it's like, you know, people like that will follow accounts like me for whatever reason. That's their own problem. But, you know, if people know that they can get in front of those decision makers, maybe part of their budget is better spent. With someone like a Moz, someone like a Core Memory, right? Something like that.

Yeah.

And so I do think we're sort of in this like exploration phase. It's like, what does— what is the most useful attention for us?

Yeah.

When there are so many software companies being spun up and so many people willing to actually pay for this stuff.

Totally, totally. It's like a real attention grab, as you're saying. And I'm curious, like, you're 4 months now for Moz, which is so strange. It feels like it's been so much longer.

Why not?

You've gotten so much shit done. Um, tell me, tell me more about building your own new media company in San Francisco. Tell me about your guests, how you find topics, like tell me the process.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I, I definitely, it goes kind of back to, you know, early conversations that I actually had with, um, Brent and Eric, right? Again, I, I probably wouldn't have had the stones to even try this if it hadn't been for, for people like that pushing me in that direction. So, you know, really, really grateful for those early conversations. Brent especially was somebody who was like, you know, he's sort of like, I remember we were having dinner at an Indian restaurant just downtown. And, you know, he, I said, I was like, I was like, oh, like, here's what I would do for a show if I were to do a show and sort of just like told him the, you know, what ended up becoming members of technical staff. I had the name in mind as well because I just thought it'd be so funny to just call it member of technical staff. Everybody at AI Labs, they're called a member of technical staff, whether they are actually like a staff engineer or whatever, it doesn't matter. Kind of like A16Z partners. Everybody that works at A16Z is a partner. Yeah. You know, nothing wrong with that. It's just kind of funny to me.

Yeah.

But basically, you know, so I gave him that pitch and he's just like, yeah, I think you should. I just think you should do this full time. Yeah, you should do it yourself and you should try and get the first thing out in 2 weeks.

Wow.

And so I was like, okay, cool. And so, you know, I just thought about it. I got, got our mutual friend Lan.

Yeah.

You know, as the first, the first Mott's co-host in the first couple of episodes. Episodes. And yeah, obviously got to, you know, locked in like a first presenting sponsor as well. You know, the cool thing about just like being in the city and just having friends— did a recent episode on just like, you know, the social scene in San Francisco and how it just pays to just have friends, right? Just to be nice to people and not actually ask totally of anything. But I digress. Basically, you know, was able to go to, uh, you know, a company like Inference. Yeah. Um, and yeah, like gave him the pitch, said, hey, I've been rocking your badge on, on Twitter for the last year, just generating them impressions. They thought it'd just be funny to give random schizophrenic accounts like me a badge. And that was a really, really easy sell. So they came on and then sure enough, cool, have revenue, great. We can— I can start doing this. Gave me an excuse to do it full time. And yeah, yeah, the show topics, basically stuff that I've probably tweeted about.

Tell me more, because I really— I mean, I'm sorry, audience, if you do know what we're talking about, but I just feel like it's so insular that it's like worth explaining because once it escapes containment, we've known for several months. So what are some of the topics we're going to see on the New York Times?

Be careful, switch off on my day once.

As you should.

I would know.

As you should.

One must earn the right. I don't think I've earned the right. No, but basically, yeah. Yeah, I think, yeah, the, I mean, the topics. Yeah, I do think it's really just about like like, uh, it's, it's really about sort of, again, not being timely nor timeless. It's like something that I have posted about. Obviously, it was, it was the Peptides thing was a layup for a very, very early show. The, the, the San Francisco parties was a layup for a very, very early show. And then obviously the guests, they just end up being my friends. Yeah, that's the cool thing about it. Like, obviously I was really easy to just like, oh cool, Kylie's unemployed. Yep, yep, probably she'll have some time.

Totally, exactly.

It's kind of funny because actually kind of hard to get a hold of you during that time.

Yeah, yeah, I hate responding to anything ever. Um, And meanwhile, now I'm employed slash unemployed podcasting. I'm like, Jaden, come on, come on.

And you're like responding straight away.

Now that I have a job and I have to look at my phone, unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, very unfortunately.

Totally.

But yeah, we talked about unemployment and that as a status symbol, which was something I definitely experienced during that unemployment time. And yeah, I think you just tackle some of the stuff. Of course, you go through the timeline, the tweets, and TDPN does this too, which I I just fucking love because, yeah, I mean, because I'm on Twitter too much is really what it is.

Of course, of course. And people love having their stuff read. You know, I went on a date once. I went on a date.

Really?

Violation.

Violation.

Who would have thought? Yeah, maybe cut this one out. No, basically, basically, I do remember going on a date and, and they were actually going through my favorite tweets, right? Just in front of me verbatim. I was like, what kind of fever dream is this? I was like euphoric. I was I was like, well, this is, this is sick. I mean, I was also a little bit cynical. I was like, what are you trying to get from me? I see what you're doing. Like, you're doing the exact right things right now. You're saying the exact right things. I started to get a bit cynical. I was like, right, what are you— anyway, it's an amazing feeling. It's an amazing feeling every single time I get like, you know, even just a mention on TBPN. Yes. Uh, like there's just this feeling of euphoria that is very, very hard to describe. And I think, you know, playing into that, obviously, like TBPN, um, it is always like very— again, VPN, they do the timely so well, right? And of course, like, they're on 5 days a week, they cover— they're literally covering, covering the news. They were able to get timeline, collate timeline reactions according to the, to the news. Um, whereas, you know, for, for Monts, right, it's very, very topical. And I can do, you know, I can go through the various Twitter searches and basically look up the term that I'm wanting. Chinese peptides, easy term, plenty of tweets there. Uh, San Francisco parties, easy term, a lot of tweets there. I hope to, I think the next episode that I'll do will be something along the lines of like, you know, the X timeline or the starter packs that came out yesterday.

Oh, the starter packs. Please explain the starter packs.

A lot of controversy.

Do we dare explain what TPOT is on this podcast?

Goodness gracious, yeah, this part of Twitter? Yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, as much as I've been around for a little while, I'm probably not the best person to explain it, but it did start, you know, come around 2021 really, right? You know, like another mutual friend, Brooke Bowman, right, to come up with this concept of like vibe camp. And, you know, we sort of had the, the sim clusters of Twitter, right? And that's over the last couple of days what people have been yearning for, you know, like they've been wanting the sim clusters back. And I do think the starter packs, they're almost like this last ditch effort to sort of revive some of it. Um, but you know, I think, yeah, Teapot kind of ended up evolving into like, like the anonymous accounts of late 2021, early 2022, where a bunch of us, that's when my account came of age. Not, not sure I would necessarily classify myself as teapot. Obviously, go, go all the way back to 2021, it was sort of that, you know, that post-rationalist sort of— can we just getting into terms where if you were to try to explain them to a child from the Victorian era, they would blow up?

Just give them a Sprite and, and it quickly self-destruct. No, you, you're explaining exactly how I would describe it, which is a bunch of buzzwords that we both half understand, but we know everyone everyone says at these parties.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, so I would just describe it really as, yeah, it's a post-rationalist thing. There's like a lot more structure and people get very, um, it's like kind of like goes back to the bloggers, right?

Like the East Bay bloggers, like, you know, Slate— Scott— Slate— Scott— Slate Star Codex, right? Scott Alexander. Um, those kind of writers. And so, you know, I really do think that that's probably, you know, if we were to really trace the etymology back, um, it really does come back to that sort of like East Bay thing.

Exactly.

Um, but, you know, again, it's hard for me to— it's hard for me to really talk about it because I, you know, I've, I've actually never lived in the East Bay. Yeah, I've always been in San Francisco.

So yeah, no, it's definitely a very East Bay thing. And I just like to say it's a bunch of shitposters that technically have a lot of influence in different ways. And, uh, yeah, so they released these starter packs, and I think one was Teapot Thinkers.

Teapot Thinkers, modern day Aristotle. Yes, he's growing Daniel. Yes, uh, Rune.

Right, exactly. A bunch of Anon shitposters that— yeah, Nikita Beer, the head products, aka kind of Twitter CEO making these starter packs. Yeah, that's, that's something you should cover on your podcast.

Definitely. I really want, I actually want to do this next week. If I can get Rune on next week, it'd be perfect. But, you know, it's funny, like on the Caltrain, the way down here, you know, from, from San Francisco down into the peninsula. But basically I was, I was actually, I was on a roll, you know, doing like all of these, all of these tweets, right? You'd be able to look at them afterwards, maybe.

Perfect.

But basically, you know, just sort of like making the joke where it's like, you know, on a first date, you know, maybe the date asks like, oh, you know, like, like, what do you, do you like 'You like to read?' Like, yes, of course I like to read. And she's like, 'Oh, I'm into, you know, I'm into like Jack Kerouac. I love, love poetry.' Be like, 'Yeah, you know, I'm like a more like modern-day thinker kind of guy, you know. Yeah, guys like, uh, you know, like Growing Daniel, uh, Rune, Squirtle.' Just list off like anonymous accounts. I don't understand. These are my friends. So like, the idea of trying to explain to my mum or someone who's like, you know, it's like, 'What are these weird little friends of yours?' like, like, I was like, oh yeah, that's, um, that's Squirtle Says. But, you know, don't, don't worry. He's actually like a, he's like a quant.

A quant.

Or it's like, it's like, like these are like really successful people hiding behind these anonymous accounts. And that's sort of been the case for a few years now.

Yes. Do you think that like the, the feeling we have of like everything, everything being so busy and sort of frothy is the bubble like that, the proper AI bubble? I mean, and I'm thinking like, man, how fucked do we get if this bubble pops? Like, do the parties just stop? Does the LaCroix stop running?

Like, it's hard, it's hard to say. I mean, I, I think, you know, my only personal experience with it was sort of COVID Yeah. Um, but then it's, it's really, really hard for me to even comment on it because again, I was at art school. I mean, I saw everything fall off. I saw everybody leave the city. I saw those that stayed just kind of like, you know, they're in their like one-bedroom apartment on Zoom all day.

Yeah.

Um, and so, but yeah, like, I mean, what, what does that look like without mass lockdowns? You know, what does that even look like? It's hard, it's hard for me to say. Um, you know, I, I wouldn't be surprised if you do sort of have a flight, right? Because I mean, I do think part of, part of, uh, San Francisco's revival, of course, you know, God King Levi's heir Daniel Laurie. Yeah, we need to host a Daniel Laurie party. But you know, he's, you know, he's been, you know, like, like he's like very, very pro-business, right? He's doing the short-form content, going, making Instagram Reels with like, you know, new businesses opening up. He's doing like Instagram Reels with freaking like BlackRock.

Yeah, it's like I'm at the BlackRock event.

And so He's like very unapologetically pro-business. It's giving a lot of people confidence in the city. But where I'm going with this is that also, you know, the AI labs, right? They've decided to headquarter here in San Francisco, right? It's almost like San Francisco is just the luckiest city in the world. Luckiest city in the world. Time and time again, gold rush, silver rush, the railway roads, right? Tech bubble one, right? The dot-com bubble. Maybe you say tech bubble number two, or, you know, just before the housing crash or whatever, right? The point is, is that it's just lucky over and over and over again. And we've struck gold again with the AI labs, not only like, you know, coming of age, right? ChatGPT becoming a thing and this is in just this flood of capital into this technology, but the labs making a conscious decision to headquarter in San Francisco. And so, you know, if a few of them go bust, I mean, I doubt it. I really do doubt it. But if a few of them go bust, I mean, I could, you could, you could see a flight out of San Francisco again. But again, I just think it's like one of those places in which it's It's not really like a Detroit. It's like, it's a very, very livable place, right? There's water on every single side. It's beautiful. You have Marin County up north. You got the peninsula down. Like, there's just so many amenities.

Yeah.

You know, I just, I don't ever see it going away. Doesn't matter what the politicians try to do. If they try and, you know, pin everybody against the billionaires and they get a tax pass. I mean, you know, I do, I would like to say that I doubt that that's happening, that it was going to happen. But yeah, Mott's gets political.

See if we can—

but basically, yeah, I just, I don't see San Francisco going anywhere regardless of what happens.

And where I want to end it is, uh, I really do think stuff we're going to see on Mott's or DBPN or on our timeline, we're going to see in the New York Times in 3 months.

Yeah.

So what can we expect? What are you looking at? What are you seeing? What's the big trend right now? I'm going to say cloud cowork, uh, is going to be blowing up in about 3 months in mainstream media. What are you looking at right now.

Yeah, well, it does, it does feel like, it does feel like, again, there's, there's been that step change, kind of like what you mentioned, like with Claude, Claude Code, Claude Cowork. There does seem to be this, uh, renewed sense of fear amongst everybody here. It does. Like, I mean, even I feel a bit more angsty. I mean, I don't know if that's me, maybe it's just jet lag. Sure, maybe it's just artificial stimulants. Yeah, coffee right here. But basically, you know, it does, it does feel, you know, everyone feels wangsy again, right? You know, the permanent underclass is coming back. I do think, you know, when the New Yorker article came out on the permanent underclass, sort of like, you know, the latter half of last year, you know, it was pretty easy to just kind of laugh it off and like, okay, well, maybe Leopold. And again, hey, Leopold, I really like Leopold. He's awesome. So, you know, wrote Situational Awareness, that's Leopold Aschenbrenner's book. And obviously, you know, that's all AGI 2027, right? Like very, very aggressive timelines. But, you know, the discourse around the permanent underclass or 2 years Accumulate Capital, it all felt very sardonic, very sarcastic. Everyone was kind of like, you know, kind of like laughing about it. But now Claude Code is here and Claude Cowork, everybody feels a bit angsty again. Yeah, that is the vibe, um, at the moment, I feel. I do think there's a lot of optimism. People are still moving to San Francisco, they want to build the AI thing or the next AI thing or whatever. Yeah, um, but it feels a little more angsty now, right? That feels like a step change. Whenever that happens, there's always that angst for months.

Totally.

We'll see what happens after that.

That's a really good guess because just before you got here, I think I was scrolling past a tweet that was like, I'm feeling really down because it's like, uh, I could be actually fucked as a coder, an engineer, a writer, or whatever. I saw this tweet and you're right, this is bubbling beneath the surface, but I'm like scrolling, I'm like, okay, right past. But yeah, I think that, I think that's right. Like, um, I don't know. And you can feel it here. You can feel like sort of this nihilism about about this change because it, it, we get used to it so fast, but then when it really is in your face, like it's happening, we're automating, you know, like regular work you didn't think we were going to touch yet. Like we've gotten there that quickly. It's, it's happening. So yeah, I think that's a good guess.

Yeah, I think it's the same. It's the same thing with like the X timeline, right? It's like, I mean, the whole thing in this past week, I mean yesterday, right? When the starter packs released, everybody was furious, right? And the thing is, and I say everybody, I mean, it's the power users. The power users are serious. And, you know, I do, you know, I tend to be not as worried about X.com, the everything app. I just think network effects are too strong. But, you know, like, I do feel like it's like, it's like that, it's that same, it's the same energy, same vibe, same whatever. Yeah, we're getting kind of wee-wee with it. But like, everybody is angsty, right? It's like, oh, big X algorithm change. You know, like maybe we're verging into some, I don't know, like hyper slop algorithm, Right. Like AI-generated video is, you know, you can't, you can't tell what's real anymore. Right. Like, like real sort of nihilism. It's like, and yeah, we got the same thing with the X algorithm. Right. The starter packs came out and like all the power users were totally furious. I think at the end of the day, it's probably not going to matter too much. You know, like I might not like the algorithm changes, but at the end of the day, I'm still going to spend 16 hours a day on the fucking app. I'm going to shake my head, you know, to let the algorithm know that I disapprove.

Exactly.

But yeah, that is the feeling, right? It's like, like everything, like it's almost like a feeling that we're going into a bad world. And I'm kind of like, my brother in Christ, we're the ones building it.

Yeah.

Wow.

You know, it's like, if it's so bad, like we have, we have some control over this. We have some control over the messaging. I think the messaging is really important because it's going to be a thing in the midterms. And at this stage, both sides don't like AI. They don't like technology, you know, whether it be a data center thing, electricity electricity thing, a fucking water thing.

Yeah.

Oh my God, you know, there are so many, there are so many nails, right, that can be hammered here.

Totally. Thank you, Jayden. Thank you so much. Please plug all of your things, your X the Everything app, your podcast, please, for the user, for the audience at home.

Goodness gracious, it's like, I feel like whenever I plug my Twitter handle, it's like, it's like, oh, you know, I made that when I was like a 14-year-old kid, PlayStation Network gamertag or something.

It's so good.

Yeah, but, uh, you know, my handle on X is @creatine_something Cycle. So I don't know, for those watching, hopefully you can tell that I work on my arms because, gosh, I've been non-verbal, not feeling the touch of a woman for 8 years. I've got to have something to show for it. But yeah, uh, creatine_cycle, um, you know, I post full, uh, MOTS episodes onto that account. Um, you know, my— one of my recent little projects, of course, is Swole as a Service. So, you know, like the gym interview with, uh, with Sultan Dorkesh. Gonna be making a lot more of them. You can find that on YouTube. Um, and Yeah, like if you want just more extra little bits of MOTS, you can also check out @MOTS_pod. I'm just kind of like, you know, shitposting from the MOTS account, posting other little clips. So if people ever want more of this thing, right, so people don't get exhausted on my account, they can also follow that account. Um, and yeah, that's, that's sort of, that's, that's, that's where I am mostly.

X, but you know, perfect.

Do some gym interviews on YouTube too.

I love Jayden. I love MOTS. I think you're doing great work and there's no other better place to like look at this sort of weird world with someone who's so funny and so Australian. Oh, actually, I do have one more question. Yeah, I forget. Uh, bench press.

Oh, what's my max? Please don't ask me that.

What is your max bench press? And then explain why I'm asking that.

Oh yeah, yeah. So I mean, I guess the explanation as to why is because I got TVPN to ask Brian Chesky. I'm so proud of that. I'm so, so proud of my pull on the timeline that I can get, um, you know, guys that are my friends to ask sort of like the pinnacle of like the technology gym bro, right? You know, you can see him working out at Fitness SF. Uh, that's, that's a regular thing. I'm not like doxing him. I won't say which one, just, you know, to respect the man's, uh, semi-privacy. Um, but yeah, my, my one rep max, um, keep in mind that I weigh about 160 pounds. I kind of fluctuate.

Okay.

Uh, important disclaimer for those that actually lift, but my one rep max is 290. So wow, not up there with Chesky's 315, but I do weigh quite a bit less than him.

Uh, locked in, locked in. We'll get you to the TML rack as soon as possible. Oh shit.

God, please let me in the Thinking Machine. Please let me, please let me squat in the Thinking Machines.

They don't have 45 plates. It's over. It's so over.

Okay, to be fair to them, I really like the, the people at Thinking Machines. Um, John Schulman, actually, he's a fan of jazz, right? So we bonded a little bit on the timeline over jazz music. Uh, and so, you know, and plenty of friends them at that lab, like we have at a lot of these labs. But no, obviously, clearly the 45s are going to be slightly out of view in that picture.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Funny, funny jabs. Hopefully they see it as funny. If not, I'm sorry.

We'll get you in there. Go follow Jaden, go listen to MOTS, and thank you again for podcasting with me.

Oh, thanks for having me.

The Core Memory Podcast is hosted by Hosted by me, Ashlee Vance. It is produced by David Nicholson and me. Our theme song is by James Mercer and John Sortland, and the show is edited by the John Sortland. Thanks as always to Brex and E1 Ventures for making this possible. Please visit our Substack. YouTube and podcast channels to get more of what Core Memory makes. Thanks, y'all.