#14 Breaking into Established Markets and Scaling with a Great Brand Story, with Amanda Kimes & Lindsay Perraton of Kimes Ranch.

Get ready for episode number 14 with two of my favorite girl bosses. From Kimes Ranch, meet Amanda Kimes and Lindsay Perrotin. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works. From mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts, and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub, and I can't wait to chat. Have you ever felt like all of a sudden, out of seemingly nowhere, a brand pops up and has massive popularity and brings new life to the market? You feel like you're watching this overnight success story happen and unfold before your eyes. Now, it's extremely rare to see or experience, but when you do, it's pretty hard not to buy into that excitement yourself. Right? So how do these brands do it? The marketing, the manufacturing, the growth, the scale, the team. What does it take to build a brand that breaks into a competitive market and takes off like wildfire? Well, behind every seemingly overnight success story, there is a story 10 plus years in the making. What you don't always see is what happens in the business behind the scenes. You and I both know it's the late nights, the founder struggles, the products that flopped, the fears that had to be overcome in order for that business to finally take shape and find its place in the market. Now, those overnight success stories, 10 years in the making, they're the ones that actually last. You know why? Because it's the companies that understand that most times in business, it's not the first product that you take to market that hits and sticks. But instead, it's the process that you go through. The process to test and evolve and to finally come up with what the market really wants most from you and then to run with it. Success is about having the tenacity to keep going even when it's hard. And that, my friends, is how you create a magnetic, electric brand that finally hits and sticks. Now today on the podcast, I am so pumped to be joined by two girl bosses, or we should call them boutique bosses or brand bosses. Maybe we need another great word for them. Regardless, these two are a force to be reckoned with and to follow. Amanda Kimes joining us today, and her husband Matt started Kimes Ranch and have developed this denim turned lifestyle company, Peter, based on a need that they saw in the equine market. And let me tell you, that's a pretty competitive space to break into. From traveling to horse shows and selling denim out of their van to building a global company serving all equine disciplines. Kimes is definitely a household name when you walk a day in western culture. Along with Amanda today on the show is Lindsay Perrotin, the director of marketing for Kimes and probably one of the most fashionable ladies I know, complete with sassy side, shaved head, and always a statement hat or a great pair of shoes. Lindsay is actually a former model, accomplished equestrian, and hailing from Canada, now makes her home in Arizona working at the Kimes headquarters with her best friend, Amanda. You may have met Amanda and Lindsay either at our NFR meetup for boutique bosses this last year in Las Vegas, or Lindsay was on our influencers panel at the 2018 Western Summit held in Denver last January. Now, these two ladies are changing wins in a male dominated industry. So we're so excited to have them on the show today. And as a brand member of the Hub, I can't wait for you guys to hear today the story of Kimes Ranch and how you can take action in your own business to build a brand that listens to the market take shape and takes off like wildfire. Welcome back to the show, guys. We have two creative, inspiring and, and might I add, powerhouse women in the house this week. And we're not only going to cover the story about building a business that's a true lifestyle brand, but this week we're also going to get into the technical aspect of operating a business of this scale, from marketing to balance and how it's all done in between. So, Amanda, Lindsey, you guys, thank you for being here. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having us.

I'm so glad it worked out. This is, this is going to be great. I just admire both of you so much and enjoy our time when we're together in person, getting to catch up. So this is going to be a real treat to have you on the podcast.

Well, we're very flattered that you asked.

Us, so thank you. Thank you for that.

You're welcome. You're welcome. So we have a lot to cover today as we were kind of visiting before we got onto the show here. So let's start with Kimes for what it's known for today because there's a lot of backstory to cover. You guys broke into a fiercely competitive and established market, the denim market in the equine and western space with monster companies like Cinch and Wrangler and Panhandle, all these powerhouses. And that's not an easy feat. I can't imagine taking that on. So, as the three of us have joked before, we've always kind of talked about that perceived overnight success five years in the making, where no one really knows how long it's taken to get here. So let's talk about the backstory. Amanda, talk about your background and Matt's and how this whole wild idea took shape.

Oh, man. Well, we were much, much younger and very naive, and I think kind of that worked in our benefit because we didn't understand what failure meant at that time. And so we weren't afraid to really, like, dive into a space we absolutely knew nothing about. I like to state that right off the bat, we had no experience in fashion or in clothing or in marketing or in any of that. Matt, my husband and partner, was in the financial world, and I had a struggling wine distribution business, and I worked odd jobs. And we always had this dream, you know, if you had endless amounts of money, what would we do together? And for whatever reason, we landed on denim. And we think that that's because we showed horses and met showing horses in that world where we rode all day, every day in denim. And I think we were unhappy with what we were wearing subconsciously. So it kind of transpired into wanting to create a denim line. I don't think we even knew what that meant, to be honest. I think we wanted to make some jeans and be cool with it and watch it grow, but I don't really think we understood what that meant at that time. We would talk during those early days, and a brand that came to mind repeatedly was Nike, because we were very impressed with how the Nike brand, the Swoosh, was so synonymous with Nike. You didn't even have to say the word. You could just see the swish. And that always really meant something to us as far as finding a brand. So when we started the business, we needed a brand. And prior to that, Matt and I had just purchased two longhorn cattle. We were going to be cattle barons. One cow has died, now we have one. So that dream obviously did not come to fruition. Barney still resides, but we had created a brand to brand our cattle with when we were going to be rich and live in Montana and do all those things. Well, the brand was really cool. It's the brand we currently use now, and I thought that would be great on a pair of jeans. And so we liked its simplicity, and we had hoped that it would be similar in the fact that it would resonate like the Nike swish did. Where people could just see the logo and think Kimes Ranch or at that time, Longhorn jeans. And it worked, thank goodness. I think that was. Lindsay mentioned earlier when we were discussing before we went live that there was a lot of tenacity and some dumb luck that took place. And one of those dumb luck moves was that logo. So Matt and I quit our jobs. At this point we have no money. That was smart. We had no bank funding anything. I think we sold a horse. So we had a little bit of, you know, startup capital of very limited means. We drove to LA and you know, my first jeans I was gonna sew. I had this dream that I could make the first pair. I don't sew, I don't even own a sewing machine. So how that was gonna work I'm not sure, but that was my dream. So we go to la, we buy paper and tools to make patterns and all of that. Well, obviously that was a disaster. So we have those first pair of jeans. They're in our closet hiding. We don't like to show them to the world, but someday I will. Lo and behold, we finally, after knocking on multiple doors and being told that we don't have what we need at certain buildings, we found our current existing pattern grater, pattern maker and pattern or denim cutter. And those people have been insurmountable for us in helping us find other manufacturers in Los Angeles. So Matt and I are loyal to those people for various reasons. Obviously they helped get our startup and they should have laughed us out the door with what we brought them. I also have to mention that that was in 09, so the recession had hit, so LA was a ghost town, there wasn't anybody working. So we couldn't do that today as LA's booming because we'd walk in with the minimums we were asking for at that time, which was like 50 pair and we would have been walked out the building. But now or at that time, I mean, people were desperate for work so they were willing to take our 50 piece minimum. So that is kind of how we did that. We went over there and started, knocked around and figured things out kind of the old fashioned way. We stayed in Malibu on a beach, in an rv, commuted into town and just kind of became locals, if you will, for a few weeks while we learned the ins and outs of the industry. I think that in May or June, our first production run of like 50 men's pair, 50 women's pair was ready. So we did that all in a very short amount of time from March till June. We created a style which our. Which one of those styles was the Betty, which is our number one selling jean? Created a few sample pairs, created a small production run, had jeans loaded up the motorhome, drove to a horse show, offered our jeans to the world. Our success story was in the making. We told the world our jeans existed, and the world slapped us in the face and promptly told us that they did not care. So there we are, jeans in hand, not a pot to pee in, and. And jeans that no one wants. That was really hard for us. So it wasn't as simple as creating a great product and taking it to the market. The market didn't care. They didn't care that we spent all of our hard efforts on this product that we'd been dreaming about. They just looked at us like, well, you guys have no experience. What gives you the right to tell us we need to try your jeans? Back to the drawing board we went, and we literally hit the road in an rv. I was pregnant at that time with our first child. We sold our jeans at swap meets. We sold them on the side of the road in a motorhome with a sign that said, come try jeans on.

Not creepy.

Probably one of our creepiest moments, even though we thought it was so innocent, we drove to ranches where we didn't know anybody and asked them to buy our jeans. We went to horse shows. We went to, like, swap meets at the state fair. I mean, we went anywhere and everywhere where anybody was willing to look at our product. We started to figure out the world at that point and then started finding markets to go to, which then started help build the brand.

How did your family react at that time? I mean, that had to be a really trying time for you guys. When you were in hustle mode, how did your family and friends react to.

What was going on?

Our family was amazing. Our family, I don't think, understood what we were doing, but they believed in us, and they knew that if we were passionate about it, we would achieve it. And. And they were amazing. They helped lend us money and helped get us on the road and would then start taking care of our children. Our family was amazing. Our friends, Lindsey being one of them, was amazing. We have several that were right on board right off the bat, and then several that weren't, and it took time to convert them. Not having all of your friends on board when you first start is really kind of humbling because it hurts. And then you have to have thick skin and act like it doesn't and that they're entitled to their opinion when you really just want to tell them their opinion's wrong and they need to love what you're doing. You know, we've overcome all of those challenges, but then we, like I said, we had a handful of core people that believed in us right off the bat, and a lot of our team now are those people.

Awesome. So how long did it take? Or how. What was the time frame where you guys were out on the road and you were inviting people to come in and try the denim? At what point did you say, there's got to be a better way? Was it when you started to go to markets that things started to shift for you or what happened next?

No, none. That didn't make it easier either, because now you're actually dealing with retailers, and they have certain expectations that we were unaware of, you know, how the product should arrived and that your tagging should always match. And, you know, their variance and washes between runs was not acceptable. And, you know, being out of stock for months on end wasn't a good thing. So, no, that made it harder. I don't think things got easier until our relaunch in 2014, when we were able to start having a team around us, because Matt and I were just doing it all and making it up as we went. We learned a lot of very valuable lessons the very, very hard way, which I think was good in the long run, but really hard in the short term. But those first years as Longhorn Gene company were very, very challenging. We, you know, we weren't making money, and even though the jeans were selling, they were selling in such small quantities at that time that, you know, that was hard. I will say this, though, that there was this moment for us where we took the jeans to the horse world. The horse world kind of turned their back and we pulled them away. But then we would strategically place them on influencers. And probably in 12, 2012, we started hearing demand. And that's when we really started setting up these great booths and going hard to horse shows, specifically AQHA events. And then we started to push for us at that time, a significant amount of volume out. And that's where it started to become easier, because people were very receptive and excited seeing their friends wear them, seeing all their other influencers wear them, and then wanting to wear them so that I think once you get them on the right people, and then they become cool, if you will, that's where things started to become easier.

So what happened right before 2014? What pushed you then to make the rebrand and the relaunch and turn into.

Kimes, we had a little bit of a hiccup there. We had just some partners that came in, and they weren't a right fit for us. And then to get the brand back, there was just some litigation and things like that that went on. So 13 was just a year where we were just unable to work. And that was crushing, crushing, because we weren't sure if we were going to get the brand back. And, you know, years for us at that time, it was like losing, you know, your baby. Not that we all have children, and I understand that, of course, but, you know, something that you worked that hard for, it was very emotional time. Luckily, we were able to get the brand back. And then when we relaunched in 14 and Lindsey came on board, you know, that's really when things started taking off and moving fast. And I think that looking back where it's not so raw, I can say that that year hiatus probably helped us because we were getting this strong foothold in demand, and then we took it away. So it's like taking a drug away, and then nobody could get it. And then when we relaunched in 14, I think people were just so happy that we were back, that it really kind of started to escalate us to that next level.

Awesome, man. So when you relaunched, did you go right back to the horse shows that you were having that demand in right away, or did you go back to wholesale markets as. Or how did that launch go?

When we first relaunched, we went straight back to horse shows and straight back to the few retailers we had before we stopped in 13. So we went right back to the customer that was asking for it. They were excited, they were happy. There was no questions asked. They welcomed us back with open arms, which we were also very grateful for and lucky for, because sometimes being gone for that long can harm you.

So let's talk about the size of Kimes today, because I want people to kind of get a picture, an idea of how fast you guys have grown and what's happened since this rebrand. So let's talk about production facility, where you're at today, staff, how that's growing, and just that percentage of growth year over year, so people get that idea.

So when we came back in 2014, we had myself, my husband, Matt and Lindsay. Lindsey was just working a few days a week, and we still keep all kinds on our ranch in Scottsdale, Arizona, so keep that in mind. So we. My husband's previous business, he had. We had, like, a modular that everybody worked out of for that business. Well, when we came back in 2014, it was just his dad in here. So we jumped right back into the modular, which is where we all now. All are now. Now, we had three people at that time and it's about a, what, 1500 square foot modular.

Yeah, give or take.

Three bedroom, two little baths, a kitchen. Like it's a. It's a double wide in that. In its true form. Now we have, let me count, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. There's 10 of us in here on any given day. Plus there's four people out in the warehouse and then a series of road reps. Now, when we first started, the back office, which is now my husband's office slash sample room, was our actual warehouse. We had racks in there and all of our jeans fit in one, like 400 by 400 room.

I don't even think it's that big. It's like 250 square feet.

It's tiny. So all our jeans fit in there. We're so proud when we had, you know, lots of jeans in there. So then we had a third party warehousing for just a moment, and then we brought all the product back here and then we had these Conexes, these shipping container on property that we already owned that had just memories in it, is what we call them. So we cleared out the memories and put in racks. And so then all of our jeans fit into one shipping container with a man door in it with no ac, with one light and a computer. And that's how Matt and I shipped every day. Then it turned into two shipping containers. Then it turned into a roof over two shipping containers. And we just built and started using last August, a 50x50 building on site. We kept the two old shipping containers with the roof over them. And I think currently we can house anywhere just denim. From 16 to 22,000 units of denim at any given time. I think on hand there's like 13,000 caps in stock today. That doesn't include all the teas, fleece, outerwear, etc. That wonderful building that we put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into last August was supposed to last us for two years. I was told yesterday by my father, who's also our warehouse manager, that we have no more room because all the shipping containers are full. The mobile warehouse, which is our semi, which many of you have seen on Facebook, is no longer a mobile warehouse. It is stuffed. And when I mean stuffed, it looks like one of those hoarders closets where you open it and stuff falls out of just boxes. Now we know where everything is, and it's all semi organized. It's just literally stuffed to the gills. So we have outgrown our new facility. Mind you, we're all still living in the same double wide.

So which each bedroom is an office. And then the. What would be a dining room is the sales table. And what would be the living room is the marketing area with all open concept giant tables that we all sit together.

Oh, my gosh.

I love it.

I love it.

You know, and this goes right into what you guys were. What we were visiting about before we started recording this show. I think people's perceptions of growing and scaling a successful company like yours, I think sometimes people think it has to be so pretty and so perfect. And you build this big, mighty beautiful, perfect warehouse with great lighting and all of this. But really, like you said, sometimes growth is just a shit show. You just do what you can with what you have and you make it happen, right?

Well, yeah. And you want to keep your costs down. So for us, staying at the rent keeps our cost down. Moving somewhere and having to pay the rent for what we actually need is chaos. We're lucky that where we are, it could be astronomical.

Given like, that we're in Scottsdale.

Yeah. So it's just. And then there's this, too. You know, Trish, who many of you have met, she staffs our booth going down the road and fits most of you. She still has horses out here, and Lindsay and Garrett bring their dogs out, and it's. You know, Lindsay never gets dressed. I don't know if y' all know that, but she lives in, like, pajama pants. Yeah.

She's like, one of the most fashionable people that we know. That's hilarious.

She's so calling me out right now. I wear comfortable stretchy pants.

Okay.

Not pajama pants. Stretchy pants.

It's a complete difference. But if we move, we would have to wear clothes to work.

I'm fully wearing jeans today, and I did my hair, so.

So there's, you know, moving comes with its own price to pay, so it doesn't always seem glamorous. So. Yeah, but we also get opportunities. Like, we have taco Tuesday here, where Dougie, one of our sales guys, lives next to the most amazing taqueria, and he brings in this amazing meat that he grills up. And we do taco Tuesdays. We do barbecue Wednesdays where we have a grill on our porch right here at the double Wide. And we grill brats and hang out.

I mean, we're also a good 20 minutes from any food source. So if we don't bring food or make it here, you pretty much just go on a diet for the day.

Perfect.

That's a team retention strategy right there. As you scale. So let's talk about marketing and brand and kind of how this scale has taken off. And when I say overnight success, five years in the making, I think we were all talking about this at the NFR together, about how you started in the horse show world and you guys have moved multiple genres. You're now in the rodeo world and have blown up in the rodeo world. What's it been like to find that ideal customer in each of those new markets as you've continued to grow and scale?

I would say extremely exciting for us. So I guess in, you know, in 2014, when I started with Matt and Amanda, you know, and we had a very, like, classic clean product, you know, and that's always and will always be, you know, the essential image of Kimes Ranch is, you know, that crisp and sophisticated take on denim. But when we started at that point, obviously that was a really nice fit for, you know, that AQHA performance horse customer, you know, less rodeo. Right. And our perception of rodeo at that time, you know, we both come from showing quarter horses. So, you know, that's our foundation. We know what that industry looks like. You know, it's very apparent, you know, what they wear. That environment to us is second nature. So for us, creating, you know, those initial products to cater to that customer was, you know, was easy.

Right.

You know, and the products that we created at the time fit very well for that. And then we had this breaking into that industry, and people are loving us. We're taking market share in the performance horse industry, and we know that that is a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of what is western in the United States.

And in the world.

Right.

Having that market share is exciting and, you know, it's giving us this. This foundation. And we're looking at Rhodio and we're going to. Does that, you know, does that really work for us? You know, does. Is that a market that. That we actually cross over into? You know, and we didn't do anything to change the brand by moving over into, you know, that rodeo. I think what happened is just amazing circumstance is what we were creating and what rodeo was becoming, you know, bringing on influencers who took on more of a mainstream fashion into their wardrobes, you know, gave us less of what we used to call, like, trade show chic was something that I don't we thought we would never fit into, you know, for that rodeo customer. And then, you know, as we started to grow and as the rodeo industry and the influencers started to, you know, modernize their style is how I would put it, that seemed to start to match up with what we were creating and what we wanted to be and where we wanted to go.

Now to.

Make our transition from performance horse, what I did on the marketing end was really focus on the overlap. So those customers to us were ropers and barrel racers, because those showed in AQHA and at performance horse shows. So they were seeing our product already, but then they were going to their weekend rodeos and barrel races with the knowledge of our product. So our marketing, then, instead of just scattering dollars all over and trying to hope something sticks, we really focused in on that group because we knew we were already hitting them on one end. So then if we could kind of focus directly on them, then they would move into their rodeo side, and then we could start eventually moving dollars over to that rodeo side for marketing.

So did that look like print media? Did it look like Facebook ads, sponsorships, endorsements, specifically? Like, what strategies did you use to speak to team ropers and barrel racers when you did that?

So we did a lot of everything. You know, we. We did a lot of focus on, you know, we did some print ads.

We.

We took on some, you know, some indoor C's and some influencers. I think a big portion was, you know, our fashion influencers and really kind of getting product in their hands, you know, and really validating that our look was what they were looking for, you know, by seeing it on those pivotal people that, you know, that the rodeo side is watching, you know, having our product on those people and them going, oh, okay, well, I've kind of seen that here, you know, and now I'm seeing it on my favorite influencer. Well, then that relates to them, and they go, okay, well, maybe that's something I want too. So, yes, we did some print to back it up. I don't think that the print was converting, but I think that's just building brand awareness, right? A lot of it was. We did a huge focus on Facebook ads, and I'm glad we did it early, because that was, I think, pivotal in our growth of market share in the beginning, because when Facebook ads in 2014 and 2015 were a lot cheaper.

Than they are nowadays.

So to get a conversion was a lot less than it is now for us, but it allowed us to really grow that market share quickly and affordably. So we didn't have to put a lot of money towards it to get a huge gain. And then I think just in combination we were doing all those things at once, kind of hitting them from every end so that we really felt like we were everywhere, even though we were really only where they could see us. So ropers and barrel racers. So we kind of tried to just come at them from all angles.

Absolutely.

Let's talk about your Facebook ads for just a second because I know there's going to be a lot of people listening, whether they are wholesale brands, designers themselves, or boutique owners that we have listening. Everyone's talking about Facebook ads and it's something that we coach on quite a bit within the boutique hub as well. I'd love to know specifically what are some of your favorite ads to run and how many ads do you have running at any given time? I'd love to hear kind of some of your strategy behind it.

Well, I mean that changes all the time, obviously. Budgeting changes all the time, just depending on what we're doing, what we're launching, if we have new products. I do focus right now initially, I'm self taught on Facebook ads. Initially in like 2014 when I was just learning, I mean I was just kind of going for clicks, right? I'm just like putting money on there and trying to get likes and clicks. That's all I wanted. I wanted to grow our Facebook page and you know, have people have people like it and you know, just kind of put ads in front of people. And at that point, you know, our website was quite primitive. They didn't even, I don't know if they had the pixel, but I wasn't using it. So I didn't even know what the conversions were. I just knew. But we were small enough at that time that I knew if I was running an ad we were selling more stuff. So that was kind of my initial look. Now four years later, I'm a lot more strategic in that I do some which I find are one that started as a redirect ad for our flagship product, the Betty Jean. I run this ad and I mean, I hope somebody uses this and it's as successful for them as it has been for us, but it's quite simple. So initially I put it as it was anyone who had gone to our Betty page and had not been to our checkout page.

Right.

So you can create your custom audiences based on like, you know, they have been to this URL, but they have not been to this URL. And that was working pretty Good. And I use, you know, my copy is kind of like, this is our bestseller. This genius is magic. It fits and flatters all types, which it does. I mean, these are all kind of why it's our best seller. And it has a little fun video on Betty. And I usually find videos aren't as good for me as far as conversions, but for this ad, it seems to work. So then I took off the has not been to the thank you page and started running it just as have you been to the Betty page. I think I set it at like a dollar a day. You know, Maybe it's at $5 now, but my conversion rate on this ad is A$50. That's my cost per conversion, which is so unheard of right now, you know.

Oh, my gosh, that's awesome.

Right?

So, I mean, like, this ad pays out like a slot machine. I mean, if the house didn't always win on slot machines, it's seriously, I just leave that running constantly.

If you can get under $5 for cost per conversion, that's pretty amazing.

So for us, I think what benefited of taking off the thank you page is that people reorder the Betty. So, you know, it's one of those jeans that you can have in your closet, and then when you wear it out, you want another one or you want a couple pair because you're gonna wear them all week. So for us, taking off that, it's been, you know, they've purchased it already because some of these people are, you know, frequent buyers of the Betty, and they just want to be reminded, oh, I should probably buy another couple pair. But for a boutique customer, you know, maybe it's a shirt, their best selling shirt or something like that, and they can relate it to that. And then someone's going to go, you know what? I really love that shirt, and still click on the ad, still go through and still buy something else. So I don't know why, but that seems to be a really good asset.

Right now.

For other ads. I mean, I run based on conversion for the most part. I always make sure that my cost.

Per purchase.

Is much, you know, is a percent, a lower percentage of, you know, that I'm not eating into my profit, right? So that, you know, say the cost of my product is, you know, 25% of, you know, of the total price of my good. Well, then I want to make sure that, say that good is $100. Trying to, you know, lay this out. So $100 purchase, you know, I have to make sure that, you know, the Cost of my ad is always going to be, you know, I put in like the 20 to $25 range. That's how I, you know, so that I'm making 50% on that product every sale.

Absolutely.

So looking at your ratio, like 2 to 1, 3 to 1, that sort of thing, if I put in a dollar, I get back two. How about, how are you layering that, like your ad strategy around big events that you guys are going to like? If you say the nfr, we'll use that as an example because you guys had multiple locations, distribution points during the nfr. What's your ad strategy look like around a big event?

So I do run ads. You know, we're all dealing with that, that algorithm right now, taking away our organic reach. And so I do run ads just to inform, here comes nfr. I usually target my audience to a lookalike audience of people who have purchased from our site. I find that that tends to pay out best. And it depends if I'm trying to kind of cultivate new business or new market share, I might interest target a little bit, you know, based on, like, disciplines. So roping, barrel racing, cow horse, you know, Aqha, things like that. I might do an interest target ad for that. And then depending on what it is, you know, nfr, we have booths, you know, location targeting, obviously within a range of where that's going to be in Las Vegas. And then, you know, anyone who's visiting or anyone that's in that location. So, you know, if they're looking at their Facebook while they're, you know, in Las Vegas, then they'll go to that location or they'll, they'll see it while they're, while they're in town and potentially go and visit one of our booths. So, yeah, I do run ads like that. I always try and make them pay for themselves. So I'm always watching the, you know, the conversions on them as well if there's been any purchases through that ad. And, you know, that helps me if I'm like, oh, okay, well, that ad's paid for itself. You know, I can boost it a little bit more because I'm basically having no out of pocket to run that ad. So, you know, I try and be strategic like that.

Absolutely. One more thing I want to chat about kind of on that note is when you go to your guys's homepage, you guys have done a really great job with the blog and clearly the SEO that backs that blog up. Right. So part of it, as I read your blog, is kind of Going back to that strategy of using endorsers and giving your customers kind of a look into or endorses, giving your customers a look into the lifestyle of some of the endorsees that you guys work with. Can you talk kind of about the blog and how you guys approach that strategy?

Yeah.

So, I mean, obviously we come from a difficult position because, you know, to do a fashion blog, you know, we want to. We want to have like, freedom of expression for, you know, our influencers or what have you to talk about other products. You know, we don't. We don't need it to be like, you know, Kime's Ranch running down your throat. We would like to have like an open expression of what is, you know, Western fashion and what you think is applicable. And so we've used influencers in this regard to give their perspective on fashion and to bring that in. And for indoor seas as well. So sometimes we'll have indoor C's. Just interviewed by. What we have is like some blogging interns that we use. So we get some from the universities and things like that who are looking for internships. And then we have them reach out to our, you know, our team of indoor Cs and try and find, like, unique moments that are interesting, you know, not just like the hey, here's so and so. They're from wherever. They're this kind of horse trainer. Da, da da, da da. That's stuff anyone knows. You know, I try and look for, like, more interesting stories about them that we can capture and that, you know, one show kind of why they're a part of the Kimes Ranch family, because that's really important to us is our essence of family. You know, Kimes Ranch was built on family. You know, we're still on the ranch. And so all of those things are really like, part of what we, you know, hold dear. And so we've chosen our industries, you know, based on. Based on that type of character and quality. And, you know, so we feel that they have something that's unique and that people will find unique. And so we tell those stories to kind of inform and to build our culture more so than anything. And then, you know, if somebody reads that article, loves what we're about, and happens to, you know, click through to purchase something, I mean, great, that's, that's a bonus. But in the end, you know, it's that 80, 20 rule we'd like to put out. 80% of our content that is just. Is not selling to you, is just, you know, telling the story. And Building an environment that means more than just, you know, our product. You know, our product is great, and we're proud of that, but we're proud of so much more at Keim's Reg. I mean, there's, you know, there's so much essence to what we do and feel. And a lot of that, I think, is kind of why we've been successful, is because, you know, people can see that in our branding, in our marketing, and see that there's more than just we're just trying to sell you a product.

Yeah.

We're trying to build a culture and a community.

I love that. And you guys have done such a great job at that. I look at it both from the angle of, you know, the man on the ranch or the man in performance horse industry on that angle, but also kind of going back to that woman and that high fashion angle. I'm even thinking about your collaborations with, say, Livewire and how Megan's taken some of your pieces and put, like a unique high fashion spin on them. Just your openness to collaborate with people like that and put your stamp on what you think Western fashion is today. That's very unique. Not a lot of people have done that, right.

Well, I think a lot of people are so protective about, you know, it has to be their way. And you can't, you know, you can't take their product and make it different. Well, why not? Megan has a unique take that is something that Heims Ranch coming from our, you know, our classic. Our classic feel. We would never be able to do what Megan does. I mean, yes, we can, but it's not really what we're about. And Megan does it so well. So why not let her escalate our great foundation, which is our great fitting product, and make it something totally different? We love that in the respect that it only gains us more market by having other people see our product in a way that maybe they wouldn't have before. And maybe that's their jam. They love just what Megan does with our product. That's fine. We're not. We're not trying to be everything to everyone. We are what we are. And, you know, and we're really happy to kind of allow artists to do their art. And that's really what Megan does. And some of that comes from. I had a reworked vintage western wear line, like back in 2006, before reworking was even, you know, a thing. And, you know, so that's. That's, I guess, something that I see in her. And I'm like, well, I Mean, that's great. You know, so we love to collaborate, and really, it's. You know, I think you said the quote of, you know, rising tide lifts all boats.

Right?

We're in this together, and it is really, you know, collaboration over competition. And so, you know, the more that we can do with other brands and build together and kind of enjoy this ride together is super exciting for us.

Oh, man. I just want to mic drop right there, because our whole motto with the boutique hub is community over competition, and that's exactly what you just described. So amen to that. I have to ask you guys both this question, though, because we're speaking about fashion, right? And that's kind of the core of what we all do and what we love. When you're not wearing stretchy pants, either of you, I want to know what are the favorite, like, must have pieces that are in your closet, personally, because I'm thinking about Lindsay wearing the red hat at the Western Summit on stage. Like, it's always statement pieces with you. So I want to hear both of your takes on your favorite fashion pieces right now.

So we're very different. I don't think we ever do anything alike at all.

Yeah, no, I think we're. I think we're pretty much opposite in, like, all respects of being human, to be honest. Which is why it works.

Which is why it works. I'm wearing it today, and this is one piece we do agree on. It's one of our own pieces, actually. It's a men's piece that we launched in the fall. It's called the Bison flannel, and it's a men's flannel shirt. And I think I've lived in this for, like, the past two months after I saw Lindsey rocking it so well. And I think that it is just a really great piece to rock and to kind of put a street spin on any of your western pieces. I don't. I think it's. I think. I think our fashion for both of us changes based on where. What we're doing, what we're attending and kind of what we're feeling.

Yeah, I always go for that, you know, one key piece. Like, I'm pretty, like.

I guess.

You know, I think if you're gonna go for a big hat, then the rest of what you're doing should be pretty simplistic. And to make that one piece pop, you know, that's always been my thing. Have that, like, one thing, whether it's, like, a, you know, flashy pair of heels or, you know, a big Hat or something. Like, I make, you know, tone down the rest of what I'm wearing and, you know, make it very, like, monochromatic or whatever. I like black. It's my favorite.

You like gray and dark gray and.

Yeah, and sometimes white, but that's only. That's only come because I moved to Arizona and you can't wear black when it's 110 degrees. But otherwise it would be my staple color of every day. So, you know, I like to keep basic, you know, my shirt and jeans simplistic. If I'm going to go with the big bold hat or if I'm gonna go with a really crazy pair of, like, heels or shoes or, you know, boots or something like that, then I like it to be like, oh, look at those boots or look at that hat. You know, it has to be, you know, for me, I don't wear, you.

Know.

You know, three pieces that are. That could be that essential key piece at the same time.

Yeah. Don't let them fight with each other. Right?

Exactly.

Yeah.

So that's basically my motto for dressing for anything. But I love to have fun with fashion. I mean, it's been a key part of my life for a majority of my life. I remember when I was a kid and my parents took me to London and I came back from London and this would have been. I guess I was in grade 11 and I bought these, like white diesel pants that were like skin tight and bell bottom, like huge bell bottom, and a pair of four and a half inch platform, like mules where you like step into them. But then they looked like sneakers on the top. And I mean, like, I think I've saved them. I think they're in my tickle truck, which.

That's such a.

Okay, we fight about the tickle trunk. Tickle trunk in Canada. Canadians, you know, tickle trunk. Mr. Dress up, who was like a child, a child star, like it's a children's show, had like his dress up trunk was called a tickle trunk. So you know what?

This goes right along with selling denim out of an RV on the side.

Of the road and getting people to.

Stop and dry it up.

So we go fully, like, awkward moment where we looked creepy. Okay, I feel you. I will hold back on the tickle tank.

So is this where you keep all your. Your favorite vintage pieces?

Yes. So they. I store, you know, all those kind of like key pieces that. And they have moments where, you know, they'll make an appearance. I have another platform pair that I bought in Montreal in like 1999. And they make an appearance too, once in a while. And I mean, they are ridiculous, but there's a time for them. And so, you know, once in a while I pull out these key pieces from the tickle trunk. So I like it. You'll see them all.

Good.

Fashion makes a return. Right?

Right.

Yes. Hey, let's talk about the wholesale industry today. Because you guys were talking about earlier with Longhorn and getting into wholesale back then, and as we were all together at the Western Summit this January, you know, a lot of the conversation there was just about how the wholesale side of business is changing and evolving so fast with, you know, in person, apparel markets versus online sales and these things. I'd love to hear kind of your take on that market today and where you see wholesale going in the future.

Oh, I think that's a million dollar question. I think that everybody's, like you said, everybody's talking about it. I think that the way the entire world is purchasing is evolving. Whether you're buying from Amazon or you're going direct and buying on your phone, or you still visit your favorite boutique, or you're a boutique owner looking to buy product for your store, how the world is purchasing is changing so very fast. In person markets, Dallas market, the WISA market, I think they're struggling. I personally think that they're struggling. I think that for someone to have the expense of missing work and flying to a market, granted all of their favorite vendors are in one spot showing them the line. But it's expensive. It's expensive. You've got to rent a car, you've got to get a room, you've got to pay for food. You've got to bring in all your buyers, whether you have one or two or five, and you have to go in and commit to these stores. It's just as efficient anymore with most brands, they have amazing websites. You can go and view everything you need online and place an order via email. So I think that the way that the wholesale market is buying is changing and it's changing fast. And I don't believe that Western is keeping up with it. That might irritate some people. But I say that because I truly believe. This goes back to a comment earlier about collaborating and working together. I believe that as Western retailers as a whole, and I mean myself as a wholesale supplier, we need to all find ways to work together to figure out how we can all better help our vendors who are trying to purchase from us, what that is. You know, we have a couple ideas here at Kimes Ranch on what we think we could do to help aid that and help it grow. But I think that it's got to be an open dialogue with even competitor brands. I'm not afraid to talk to other denim companies and figure out what we can do to all help, you know, our favorite boutiques or even our large box retailers. I think that something has to change. I think something needs to change. I think that the in person markets are a dying art. They're probably going to disagree with me over that and that's fair. But I don't think that they're as beneficial as they were 1512 years ago.

What do you think is one thing, other brands, other wholesalers who are listening to this today? What do you think is an action item that as an industry could be taken maybe just within their own individual companies, I guess to continue that collaborative effect or you know, to work together to help grow the industry as a whole, to build the community.

Do you mean coming from like how to kind of like save the in person market or how, how to innovate by, you know, becoming more online?

I think to, I don't know about when you say save the in person market. I think that there's always going to be a time and place for an in person market with several different types of brands.

Right.

Because there always has to be some kind of element to touch and feel and to build relationships. But is it going to be as frequent as it is today? Probably not in the future. So how do we make the industry stronger? Right. With the infrastructure that's there now? What do you think that looks like?

I know something Lindsay and I spoke about at this year's market after your summit, actually having a little more. It's not just product. I feel like if you're a new boutique and you go to Denver Weiss as an example, you are bombarded and it's overwhelming. And if you're new, you don't even, you're not even off the ground yet and you're trying to spend a ton of money on products and then if you don't have guidance then now what? I've got product in my store and how do I help sell it? So having more educational summits as you threw, I think that was incredibly beneficial because you talked about things that I was there listing. These boutique owners, they're just thirsty for knowledge on how to use, you know, Facebook and social media and all of that. So if you wanted, in my opinion, if brands would collaborate and not be afraid of one another. And we do denim 101 things to help fit your customer better. If companies could explain how to wash your caps and make them last better. If marketing directors from all brands could come together and talk about key points. And then on that same note, if we, the wholesaler would listen to the boutique's needs and not just preach to them because they're going to come to us with what they're seeing out in the world. And I don't think that all wholesalers want to listen to that necessarily. So I think that there's got to be a lot more open communication and open education to help make it all work to keep the whole industry growing and thriving. Western is hot right now in the entire world as far as fashion goes. And if everyone could get on that and help exploit it, we could grow it. It's so large and wonderful. And so I think there's a lot of opportunities there if everyone was really.

Willing to work together, creating more of an experience and environment than just the selling. Everything we do in marketing is trying to build culture, trying to not sales. Why is it that market is, you know, is heavy hitting all sales when, you know, people need that kind of environment to, you know, that you bring with the education element and, you know, networking events and to be able to make it more of like a holistic approach to running your business so that it's not just like, oh, you're going and you're going just to buy. Because now that's not really a necessity. Buy entirely online. So unless there's some other things that are pulling you to come to market. Other things like education, meeting people, collaboration, new contacts, all of that in one place, I mean, then, yes, I feel like there will be maybe even more, maybe more on a smaller scale, but more places for people to come and be educated and have an environment where they're doing more than just buying, I guess.

I love it. My wheels are turning as you guys are speaking about this, because I think this is just the beginning, like you said. I mean, having the Western summit and then we have our main, our big boutique summit in June in Dallas, that is just the beginning and it is exactly what you're talking about. But I think we can even replicate that experience and bring it even more online. So we'll have to talk more about that after the podcast, but some good collaborations in the future for sure. So let's talk about something we kind of talked about before we got on this podcast. Kind of moving away from wholesale and back into what's happening inside of the company. So many people who are listening are in hustle mode. They're trying to build their business, they're trying to scale their company, but they're also trying to find this elusive creature called balance. And some people say balance doesn't exist. And I mean, I'm a mom, you guys are both moms, and you've got your families at home and all these things happening. You still want to have a hobby, you still want to have your horses. What does that look like for you guys to maintain healthy relationships at home plus build this business?

Wine. It looks like wine.

Insanity.

There's lots of things. Amanda does it better than I do.

You know, she has like workout appointments that she does, so she makes sure she has like balance there. I don't. But no, the struggle is real. And for me, my main thing is being present. When I'm with my kids, they can feel it when you're half paying attention to them and when you're answering an email or if I'm frustrated about something with work, you know, they read that all over you. With my kids, it's a direct acting out, knowing that you're not paying attention or you're not being present or they're not getting the nurturing that they need at that moment. So instead of allowing that to happen, really trying to be present, like setting my phone down when I get home and making sure I'm asking about their day and that we're having our moments together and playing and then I can readdress issues or things that I need to deal with after they're in bed. They deserve that time. You know, we spend a lot of time in the office and so, you know, when I am there, they deserve me to be present with them. So it's, you know, it's hard, but, you know, work will be there in six hours when they're asleep. And that's just really important.

I think it's also about having help. Lindsay made a comment about my balance. Well, that's an unfair statement, meaning that I can say I have balance. I have an extreme amount of help around me, so my balance is probably easier to come by because of that. So I'm very fortunate that I know how much help I have. I live on our ranch with two sets of in laws. I do have a live in au pair who's amazing. I have someone that helps clean my house. I do have a very attentive husband because he's in here with me all day. So we don't both get to go home. And. And I think one did more than the other on that. Day. We both are very active at the helm. We have someone that helps take care of our yard. So I have a ton of help being on the ranch. So for me, coming by a balance is sometimes easier. If you don't have a lot of help, man, that is a struggle. I think that's where you rely on your friends, and you rely on that bottle of wine, and you rely on those girls nights, and you rely on whatever you can to find your sanity. Because, you know, I know Lindsay doesn't have family here like I do, and I see her struggle with childcare and when her kid's sick and all that, and my heart just breaks because that's something I don't have to deal with. And knowing that she has to deal with all that, it's just a whole other level of balance. So for those of you at home listening that are wondering where the balance comes from, it's just finding your little wins, I guess, is what I would say. Find your little wins throughout the day and try to get your moment's break. And don't be afraid to take time off. It's okay to have a day for yourself or where you're not with your husband or kid. I'm saying that as none of us do that, but I think that that really is beneficial. I think that that's key. I mean, you have, if you're not taking care of yourself, no position to take care of anyone else.

Amanda has, like, a very hard rule because we are friends outside of work, and so we're always in the same social circle. And there is absolutely no discussing work on weekends or in social settings. So which is really great. I mean, it's part of the reason that we can, you know, maintain sanity and still be.

Her and Matt don't have that role. So we're all out, and they start, I will leave. I walk away from group discussions. Everyone's like, why is Matt like, she just won't talk about this like it's Saturday.

Yeah.

So she does a really good job.

Of, like, making us kind of maintain sanity by, you know, leaving work at work sometimes.

So that's great, man.

Good for you that that's so important. I want to go back to what you said, too, about if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of anyone else or the company. I was at a conference last week, and I think the best way they describe that very thing back to us was when you're on an airplane and they tell you you have to put on your oxygen mask. Before you put on anyone else's. Right, right. It's because you're gonna die if you don't, and then so is the person next to you. So such good advice. If there's someone listening who's in that moment or wanting to be in that moment where you're at really, you know, building a successful company and scaling, what do you think? You know, there's moments of, oh, crap. And there's huge moments of celebration. What's the one thing you think people should focus on as they're in that moment of scale and they're trying to get more help around them? What's that area of focus you think that's top of list.

Wow.

You know, it really depends for each person because I feel like what makes you successful is what you're best at. Where you put your passion is what's going to make your company thrive. So I guess the best thing is self assessing and looking at, you know, what is my strength, and then hiring great people around you that don't have your strengths. Your strengths that can fill the void where you need it, you know, and really pushing forward on what you're good at, because that's going to be your best asset.

That's great advice. That's perfect. All right, couple of quick lightning round questions for you. You ready?

Ready.

All right. Favorite books? Favorite books or podcasts?

Okay, well, I read a lot of books and I just finished AskGaryVee, obviously, the one book that I always go back to. And I don't know why this book resonates so well with me. I think it's like, you know, that creative person in all of us. I think if you're in this industry, you have that creative vibe within you is Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. And I've only ever listened to the audiobook on it, and she reads it herself. And for some reason, whenever I need that, just like that little push or, you know, I have anxiety about something and I just need to know, you know, to, like, follow your passion and to, like, you know, do what you love and love what you do. I read that or I listen to it, and she does such a great job of like, of narrating it, I guess. And I just find that that's my go to inspiration book. She's the one who wrote Eat, Pray, Love, so people may know her from that, but that's just like my get into your creative zone and do it book.

Great one.

Are you.

Are you waiting for a response for me?

Yes, of course.

Okay. So I don't have a podcast or a book, I'm going to say something, so just bear with me. I am fascinated, and I have been for some time with monarchies throughout time, whether it's 12th century, 13th century. And I love learning about them via television because I am not a huge reader. I can say that. And what I like about them is it's fascinating to me how monarchies are run, and it puts my life in perspective. When I think I can't handle it anymore, I think about how these monarchies had to behead people for treason. I don't have worries like that on my plate. Okay. Denim isn't life or. Or death. So what it does for me is it just allows me a moment of fresh air to think that my problems probably are not as great as what some of these people actually had to go through. So.

Ah, that's. That's very good. I'm with you on that one.

All right.

Favorite vacation spot when you do get time away?

Oh, when we get time away, I just.

A spa. A spa. For me, a girl day at the spa is always something that I need, and it's good for my soul.

See for me as, like, cultural travel. That's what makes me, you know, do what beheading does for you.

Lack of beheading.

You know, going somewhere that gives you perspective on your reality, for me, is always something great, whether, you know, that's traveling. I mean, I've been to lots of parts of the world, but I find, you know, Asia and Africa really give you perspective on culture. But going anywhere that has, you know, anywhere in Europe, anything like that, that gives you cultural perspective that shows you that, you know, your reality is not the only way, you know, that your perspective on life is not the only perspective. So it's just really nice to get out of your world for a moment and see it from another view, and then you can come back refreshed, knowing that, you know, your world troubles your anxieties. The things that plague you each day are, you know, are not the only thing in the world.

I could give you some great shows for that. You don't have to. You're comfortable.

Netflix binges. I hear you. I. I think that's so true, though. Don't you feel like, though, as you go, I get what you're saying, Lindsay. I love to travel, too, kind of for that same reason. Not that I've been to many great places around the world, but even places in the US that you go and you get a new perspective on culture. Right. I think as you yeah. And as you go, like, even building this business too. And. And as you reach different levels of the business, it gives you a new perspective on the world around you. As you begin to hire team and have team fill roles and you understand the dynamic backgrounds that they came from, then your perception on money or leadership, like, all these things change, don't they? Right. Okay, next question. What scares you the most? Snakes, Taxes, Payroll or Internet trolls?

Oh, I have to say Internet trolls, just because I get so emotional about them and I try not to, but they. They really rattle me.

So.

We had one just recently, and I mean, for no good reason, like, it was really like his tag was cut on his jeans, and it was, you know, all of a sudden he was calling out Matt that, you know, the quality of these jeans. Matt Kimes, da da da. Needs to call me personally. I mean, he just ranted and he rattled and I called him personally and talked to him, and I thought I had, you know, talked him off the ledge. And he continued. And, you know, I just. I guess I believe in what we do so much that I take it very personal when people don't give us the opportunity to make things right, because we always do. You know, that's like the one thing that we focus on is, you know, making sure our customers are happy and making sure that they love, you know, their products and that we do right by them. And I would say all the time, do. And so when they come at us just trolling, you know, it just. It really affects me, and I can't let it go. Like, I'm not good at just. I try to understand, and I'm like, well, why. Why would someone be like that? Because I just don't have that in me to. To, you know, be malicious to someone or make them feel bad. So I really have to. I really have to work through those.

A lot of people are probably head nodding, listening to you right now. Totally agree.

Just wears me out.

Yes.

She worries enough for the both of us. It's fine.

Don't worry about it.

I'd say Internet trolls bother me as well, but like I said, Lindsay will really take that. That wagon and run off without me. So she handles the worry for me. So I don't really need to. I know that she'll have. She has it under control. Payroll and taxes, I think that's just something that's always unnerving. It's just. It's always lingering. Payroll is always there. Taxes are always there. Taxes never feel complete, even though if they are, they come around next Year. I think that stuff's just unnerving. Snakes are just awful. I mean, come on. That's just there for the taking. Snakes, obviously. Snakes are awful.

That's why I live in Wisconsin, you guys. You don't have to worry about that, right?

I have one in my house.

You have one in your house, or you had one in your house?

Rattlesnake in my home.

Oh, my goodness. What did you do? How'd you get it out?

Matt took care of it, but it was, like, at night, we noticed we had to get up and check on the kids. It was in a dark hallway, and it started rattling at us for, like, a week.

You're gonna give me nightmares. And everyone else listening.

It just came in. It was beautiful. And, you know, this time of year is beautiful. You leave your doors open and it just came in the house, and we didn't know about it until after we'd closed all the doors.

Oh, my goodness. All right, well, that's unnerving. Thank you for sharing. All right, before we wrap up our time together, I want to just ask you both one last piece of advice for any entrepreneurs that are listening today. Just kind of one key takeaway that you'd love them to leave with.

Work with people you enjoy. They tell you not to hire your friends, and we did that. And I think that it's benefited us because, you know, if you can't be truthful with your friends and tell your friends exactly what you think, obviously you're going to get along in life. So work with people you enjoy despite if they're in that network of friends or not, and just make sure that you respect their private time. I would say.

You do.

You follow your own path. You know, yes, there's competition out there, and you can consume yourself with watching the competition and trying to one up the competition. You know, focus on what you're good at and really, you know, hone in on that, because that's one thing no one else has, and make that your greatness. And then, you know, follow your own road to wherever it is you want to go. And, you know, don't look. Don't look to your right or to your left and, you know, see what your competitors are doing. You know, it doesn't matter in the end. What matters is what you're doing and what's working for you.

You are so insightful today. Wow. You're just like, I'm nodding my head along with you. It's that matcha you're drinking. Wow, she's right on.

She's doing a lot of mic dropping. I like it.

No, yesterday I was like, I was.

Searching for words everywhere I went.

Wow, you just brought your a.

Well, everybody drink matcha tea. Apparently it makes brilliant.

Perfect. So before our last question, if anyone's listening, both retailers who are interested in carrying kimes or general public who just wants to wear kimes. How can everyone listening get in touch with you guys?

Kimesranch.com head to our website and you can find all the contacts you need as far as reaching our wholesale side for B2C, meaning direct customers. All our current products are up there. You can search our new spring summer selection, which is super cute. We have a bunch of new fun, exciting things that we're working on right now. So you can watch us on social media, heimsranchjeans on Facebook and Instagram, and we keep you up to date on kind of the inside scoop on what we're sampling and what we're making. And we love our customer feedback. So pop on there and tell us what you think. And that kind of of gives us a lot of market research into, you know, what we make next and, you know, what we create for you guys. It's exciting.

Awesome. Well, as we wrap up today, I mean, as I'm framing this question in mind, I have this picture of walking into your guys showroom and seeing all of the Kimes ranch caps that are in the showroom, right? This, this whole brand that's really taken off, right. And Amanda, you said something earlier about part of the reason you got started is because you and Matt thought a lot about Nike and you wanted to be the Nike swoosh. And it's very evident that that's something that you guys have done. Know it or not, you've created your own Nike swoosh and a brand that's very easily recognizable in this industry. So I want to commend you on that. So as we wrap up today, kind of the last question I want to ask you is let's fast forward several years from now and you guys have had your time with Kimes. Maybe you've had a grand exit and you've sold the business or the business has gone on and taken a life of its own. And you guys are retired, right? You're sitting in Scottsdale on your porch, no rattlesnakes in sight, and you're drinking wine and you've got your grandkids on your lap and you're thinking about the business that you've created and the life that you've lived. What is the one thing, the one legacy that you feel like you really want to leave with this business and your lives as entrepreneurs? What is the thing that you want people to remember the most about who you are and what you guys have done?

Wow. I think that I always. It's not about leaving anything behind necessarily. It's just I want to be known as a good person. I want to be someone that people tell stories to my children about meeting me and I was just a good person and that I did right by others. I did what I believed in. You know, I was kind, I gave back. And I want to be someone that my children can be proud of.

Very good. Well, ladies, I want to thank you so much for spending your time with me today and for all that you guys are doing for this industry and for inspiring others who are listening to this podcast as well. Thank you so much and I can't wait to run into you guys both in person soon.

Yes. Thank you for having us.

Yes. Thanks guys. Hey guys, thank you so much for listening to this episode. We hope that you loved it if you did. Don't forget to hit subscribe and leave a rating and review down below for a chance to be one of our featured listeners each and every week. For more information on our spirit of community over competition and how to access complete show notes and bonus downloads from our guests, head on over to the boutiquehub.com and join the community. We'll see you next week. Hey guys, thank you so much for listening to this episode. We hope that you loved it. Don't forget to hit subscribe. Subscribe and leave a rating and review down below for a chance to be one of our featured listeners each and every week. More information on our spirit of community over competition and how to access complete show notes and bonus downloads from our guests. Come over to the boutiquehub.com and join the community. See you next week.