#202: What Does it Take to Work With an Influencer With Jessie Jarvis

Hey, guys, it's time for episode number 202 of Boutique Chat. And if you have ever wondered about working with an influencer, today's your day. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works, from mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts, and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host, Ashley Alden from the Boutique Hub, and I can't wait to chat. You know, one of the questions that we get asked about most often is, what does it take to work with an influencer? How do I find an influencer that's a good fit for me? How do I know if I'm getting a return on my investment? What should I expect? What kind of paperwork do I need? And should I answer all those Instagram DMs and emails that flow flood my inbox with people asking for free clothes? So today, you guys, I wanted to dive deep in this question, and I wanted to do it with someone who also had experience in the boutique world and could really understand and speak to both sides of the industry. So today, I welcome Jesse Jarvis, who is our team member here at the Boutique Hub. But also, I know she wouldn't call herself this, but she certainly is an Instagram influencer. Now, she's worked with several brands and several boutiques and several product companies in and out of the Western industry, and she's got a really unique perspective on what it takes to be a successful influencer and what it takes for boutiques to work with influencers. I think you're going to hear that perspective early on, and it really bleeds authenticity, and I think that's one of the reasons so many people are engaged with her, because everything she speaks is real to what's happening in her life, and you can tell she isn't there just sharing product to get in front of your newsfeed. And really, today, I think when it comes to any type of social media, for boutiques or brands or influencers, whoever's on the platforms, really what people are looking for is authentic relationships. I'm pretty sure you might agree with me that we're all over the beautiful news feeds and the altered reality that so many people live in on social media, and we just want to know that there's other people out there like us, who think like us and who understand the world as we see it. And really, when it comes down to the core of what social media really is, it's about connection and authentic relationships. So when it comes to working with influencers for your business, I certainly think it's a great investment opportunity for you to expand your reach, meet new markets, move product, all the above. But there certainly is a strategy as to how you go about it. So today I hope many of your questions get answered in our interview with Jesse. If you have have more questions and you're a member of the Boutique Hub, you can actually tag Jesse anytime in our membership groups at the Boutique Hub and ask her additional questions. I know she would love to expand on any of this. She's also written a great blog post for the Boutique Hubs blog if you want to search that out. And I also wanted to mention we do have some sample contracts inside of our training library at the Boutique Hub. So if you ever find yourself wanting to work with an influencer but unsure of how to put things into writing, we've taken care of that for you. So you can simply download that contract in the library at any time. Guys, I am so excited to welcome my friend Jesse Jarvis to the show. I really hope you enjoy this episode. All right, guys, welcome back to the show. And this week is going to be entertaining and a little more casual and fun than normal because I have one of my best friends in the world joining me on the show this week who also happens to be pretty knowledgeable in the area of working with influencers.

And working with boutiques and brands. So. Hey, Jessie Jarvis, welcome to the podcast.

Hello. How's it going?

Pretty good now that you're here.

Oh, golly, we're gonna go down a.

Few rabbit holes today. I have a feeling those poor people.

Who are tuning into this right here.

Oh, man, I can't wait. Well, if you're listening, here's.

Here's the game plan for today.

So I would love for you guys to get to know Jessie Jarvis a little bit better. Her background, what she does for us at the Hub, how her whole Instagram game got so strong because she's pretty legit on the gram.

But we also want to give you guys some really actionable takeaways today in terms of how you can work with social media influencers for either your retail business or your wholesale business. How do you find influencers? How do you evaluate influencers? How do you decide that ROI that you're looking for and how you can use the social media game to up your reach? Sound good?

Do it.

All right, well, let's Start here.

So we were just reminiscing before we started recording how we met and kind of where you were at in this process back then. So can you give me some background? Tell everyone you know, where you're from, you know about the ranch, about that history, and then we can talk about how we met and how you came.

To the Hub in the first place.

Well, of course. So I. I have grown up on my family's ranch. We live in Southern Idaho, and. And I still work with them today. I went to college and had a career, but then I came back home with my husband, and we've been back for, gosh, six years now, I think, or at least I have. And I remember when I first downloaded Instagram, I used to just use it to, like, edit my photo, and then I'd go post my photo on Facebook because I thought that Instagram was the silliest thing in the world. Right. I didn't even know how to use it. I mean, I'm not even kidding. Like, I would post a photo and then I'd go in and delete it so then I could have the edited copy of it. But anyways, so, I mean, that's how my Instagram life started. I didn't even know what I was doing or how to use it properly or didn't even care to. And now, I guess, here we are.

So when you and I first met, you had clearly started using Instagram, because I think back then you maybe had 5,6000 followers, and you were already kind of doing some collaborations and really sharing your lifestyle through the gram. And we were introduced by a mutual friend of ours, Ricky Reese, the owner of the Frosted Cowgirls Boutique in Idaho, who is a client of Boutique Bootcamp, and. And just a really great mutual friend who said, oh, my gosh, the Boutique Hub is hiring their first employee. You should apply.

Yeah. Isn't that so wild? And now the hub has grown to 13 employees. But anyways, yeah, so I had started influencing somewhat. I mean, back then, influencers weren't really even a thing at the time. And. And I definitely had no intention of. Of doing this. And I still hardly even want to call myself an influencer, but I really just posted a lot of lifestyle stuff. So the clothes that I wore, ranch things, funny things, and my family. And that's still. I mean, three years ago, that's what I started with, and that's still what I base my Instagram off of today. Those are the three things that I really want to feature. And I think that that's why I've had success is just because I've never really strayed from what I initially shared, if that makes sense.

Absolutely. And you've been so raw and authentic along the way. Two things that you've really highlighted probably more in the last year than you ever have before. And I think this is a good reason why your fans are so engaged because they can relate to you on this level. The first is anxiety. So can you talk a little bit about that and how you came to share that struggle with your audience and, and how it's, you know, kind of come full circle for you?

Yeah, absolutely. So I think, I mean, I am by my nature, I'm a very honest person. If you ask me something, I guess it may be a good thing or not, but I'm going to tell you how I feel about it or my. My honest thoughts. I'm not much of a sugarcoater and I don't do that to be mean. But my thought is if somebody asks me a question, they want a real truthful answer, and I want those if I ask somebody a question as well. So when people, you know, ask me about anxiety, I'm very upfront and honest about it because there's no point to sugarcoat it or lie about it because one that's not truthful and that's not the answer they want. And that's not the kind of answer that I would want if I were looking for answers as well, if that makes sense. I have always been just like a high strung person. High strung is probably not the right word, but just somebody who is like always on the go and I don't know how to relax and I'm just always like a little bit worried about what's going to happen. I'm not a go with the flow kind of person. I'm a type A control freak, I guess. So I've always probably had a little bit of that in my life. But it wasn't until after I had started dating Justin that I like and I think a lot of it was I really had somebody to love and care about. And so that gave me more reason to worry. And my anxiety has kind of grown over the last four or five years. And I had a really hard time with anxiety during pregnancy just because I didn't know anything about babies. I had never changed a diaper before my own kid. And so I had a lot to worry about, I guess, because I didn't know anything. And reading books about babies almost made it worse because it proved to me all of the things I didn't know versus using it as a learning opportunity. And then after having jet, I had some serious anxiety to the point where, like, I would be washing dishes, not thinking about anything that made me nervous, and all of a sudden my stomach would like, drop to my toes. And so at that point I figured that I needed to do something about it, just because I couldn't live a life where it just came out of nowhere because it's really crippling. And I had gone to counselors, like, over the last four or five years on occasion, but I started going regularly here in my hometown. And then my OB also put me on an anxiety medication, which I have been taking for the last six months. And my life has never been better, but I was always very afraid of taking medication for it. And I know a lot of other people out there are as well, because you don't want to become dependent on something because, hey, that's going to give you more worry or more anxiety if you can't get your prescription filled or whatever it is. But finally I decided, you know, I've got to change something. It's not something I have to be on forever, but so that has is how all of that's happened. And then I do get a lot of questions about that just because I think a lot of people are in the same boat that I was. You just. There's a lot of things out there that you don't know and you're worried what the results or the outcomes might be. So I've just been really frank and honest about it because I know that if I was out there searching, those are the kind of answers that I would want, are the frank and honest ones.

And you've done such a good job with that. I know you like to post like the question in your Insta stories a lot or allow people to ask you questions. And I think that that's so cool, something that you do. You won't give a recommendation for something until you've lived it or done it yourself. Like blue light glasses, for example. I got some blue light glasses and you and I were talking about them, and then you got some blue light glasses and you wouldn't recommend anything to your audience until you were thoroughly convinced that they worked, which, that carries a lot of weight. And I think that's something you and I are going to talk about more in a bit when it comes to retailers and brands looking for influencers. But really staying true to your values is so important.

Oh, absolutely. And I think that all goes back to the honesty thing, though, is if I'm looking at somebody else because they've recommended a product, I'm putting my trust into them knowing that they've used it and it's something they like. I'm not going to. I don't want to buy something and then realize the person who was recommending this product never actually used it. They were just doing it for a dime. That's not something that I ever want to be associated with because I just want to treat my followers the way that I want to be treated when looking for recommendations or answers or any of that.

The other thing that you talk about a lot is your. Your own health conditions. And I have to ask you this question. So is it pronounced diabetes or diabetes?

Okay. Wilford Brimley. Diabetes.

Diabetes is how you say, so there's diabetes in our family, but my mom has always said diabetes. So I'm so confused.

I think that's just an older person. I think initially it was called diabetes, but now it's become more of, like, a mainstream, more common thing. And so it. It's just known as diabetes now, I guess potato, but you better say potato. Okay.

You are from Idaho, after all. Potato. So a lot of people, I'm assuming, also kind of follow you for that reason. Like, just to see what it's like dealing with that on a daily basis. I mean, having a pump and just how you keep up with that.

Yeah. And, you know, in all honesty, it's not something that I probably talk about nearly enough. I remember a really good friend of mine way back when, when I had first kind of started doing the whole Instagram thing, she said your biggest platform should be diabetes, because there. I think that a lot of people would look up to you for that. And I have always been against that, because I never want people to think that I'm using this disease that I have as a crutch. Like, I want. I would rather have people, like, be talking with somebody else and say, oh, that's right, Jesse does have diabetes versus Jesse. And diabetes being the first thing that people think of. I don't necessarily know why that is. And I think that there are a lot of people out there who do use diabetes as their biggest platform, and they are very successful at it, and they do a really good job with it. But with all of the other aspects of my life, like ranching and things that I want to highlight, I don't want. I don't want people to think I'm looking for pity or sympathy, if that makes sense. So I do Talk about diabetes on occasion. Honestly, it's probably like once a season, so four times a year. Just because I. I want it to be something that people kind of remember, but not the forefront of their mind.

Absolutely. So tell me about your Instagram now. So you came from not knowing how to use the app to all of a sudden. I mean, really, since you and I've known each other, it's been amazing to watch how it's taken off. Tell me about followers now and. And we'll get into this as well. But more important than followers, I think what's really cool is how much engagement you have. Like, the. The amount of engagement you have is just, like, off the charts to me.

Yeah. So I do. I told Ashley this ahead before we started recording this podcast, and I will say it again. Followers. It's. I don't care about followers, and I. And I don't want to say that. And then the people who follow me think that I don't care about them, because that's not the case. But I don't care about the number of followers that I have because that many people aren't going to show up to my funeral. And at the end of the day, I'm more concerned about that number because that is. I mean, the people who show up to your funeral are the people who you've touched their life or made a difference, or maybe you've pissed them off enough that they just want to see in the ground. But whatever it is, you've made an impact somehow or some way. And that's what I want to be like. That's what I want to be focused on. But because for that same reason, I've never done a giveaway to where I gain followers from it. Because like I said, that's not a number that I care about. I want to be touching the people who follow me now. Like, I would rather increase my engagement tenfold than gain 10,000 new followers. Because I want to be able to have a relationship not just in social media, but if I see somebody, you know, at Target or in Vegas in a couple of weeks, I want those people to come up to me and say, hey, Jesse, like, I, you know, really relate to you, or this inspired me or whatever it is, and I want to be able to have a conversation with those people. I just. About life in general, not about Instagram or social media, but I just want to be able to touch those lives.

So good. So good and so true. Oh, my gosh. The other day, you and I were texting back and forth and I opened my text messages and I realized I don't think I'd responded to the last four text messages that you'd sent me. But I had spent the last half hour of my life watching your Instagram stories where all these people asked you all kinds of questions, and I learned more about my friend. How does that even work?

Oh, you know, I think that that's just because, again, it goes back to the whole being authentic and honest thing. When people ask me questions, I give them the real deal answer. I don't. I mean, I'm very truthful. There are lots of. And there are some questions that I don't necessarily want to answer, to be honest, but I do it anyways, because my thought is, if I'm putting myself out there or in an awkward position, chances are there's somebody else out there who feels the same way or deals with the same issues. And if I'm making them feel more normal, then it's worth it to put myself at a place of uncomfortableness.

I love it. All right, well, let's get into the meat, because I think that all of that. I just want people to get to know you for who you are, because I think it speaks a lot of truth into what we're about to discuss, and that is there's such a huge trend today of using influencers in marketing, retail, and wholesale. And there's some different tiers, I would say, at which people, you know, go after this. And there's definitely success strategies, and there's definitely failures. And I want to uncover that to make this process as easy as possible for anyone who's listening. So I want to start kind of with this. Tell me about how you see the role of the influencer. What's a stereotype that might be out there, and what is a true influencer, in your opinion?

So I think there's definitely a stereotype of influencers being very vain, and they just want free clothes and they want to see themselves on the gram, and they want to get Insta famous, and they just take selfies all day long or they've got an Instagram husband or whatever it is. And I. There's definitely some of that out there, but that is not the greater amount of influencers, if that makes sense. They're professionals who have worked to curate and build their audiences and engagement. And if you want to tap into that audience, then you need to treat them as professionals and you need to compensate them as professionals. And, I mean, kind of going back to what I initially said, there are people who are out there who aren't as serious about it and who are doing it for the wrong reasons. And I know that a lot of boutiques and brands have those horror stories of working with influencers, but you can't let those bad apples cloud your overall view. There are boutiques and brands out there who have probably screwed over a customer. And now those customers don't ever want to shop with brands and boutiques. And you would never want those people to have a clouded view of that industry, if that makes sense.

Absolutely. I think that's a really great point. Would you speak to kind of the different levels that are out there? Because there's some influencers that, I mean, it's thousands of dollars to work with and there are others who are just getting started who may work with you for clothes. Can you kind of speak to the different levels you see?

Yeah, and I'm honestly not the greatest at this specific topic. I think it's so important to know somebody's worth. Right. And I see a lot of like the lower end charging a high amount and that's just not going to work, if that makes sense. Like, you've got. People have to know their worth in terms of influencers, and you also have to know an influencer's worth, if that makes sense. So there are definitely women out there with 100,000 followers and incredible engagement and you are going to have to pay them as well as some kind of a product. And then there's the women out there who maybe have 20,000 followers or less and they're more than likely going to do it for just product, if that makes sense. But I definitely think that there's a fine line and the fine line is engagement. If somebody has 100,000 followers and they're only getting 500 likes or 25 comments on a photo, they are not. They don't have the same worth, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. So doing your research ahead of time, which we'll talk more about that and exactly how to find influencers, do you feel like there's a misconception of when you send product to an influencer, sometimes retailers or brands will think, well, it's their job to help sell that product. And can you speak to like, reshaping the. The way that you look at using an influencer in your marketing in terms of they're there to help generate traffic versus sales?

Oh, absolutely. So I think that people, they def. There's definitely a misconception out there that influencers are. You're going to send somebody a shirt and they are going to sell you out of that run and all the other runs that the vendor has. And chances are that's not going to happen, sister, because your purpose is to sell clothes. Their purpose is marketing. If their purpose was selling, they'd go out and start their own brand with their. Or boutique with their own audience that they've curated and, and that would be their, their business. But that's not what they want to do. So they're in the marketing business, if that makes sense. So you are definitely the selling agent as a boutique or brand, and an influencer is the marketing arm. So you've got to have realistic expectations on that one. If you get, maybe somebody posts your, you know, an outfit from you and you get 500 followers out of that, that's a big deal because you now have 500 new eyes that you can consistently sell things to. So I think that there's a lot of misconception in terms of like selling product versus getting your name out there. And influencers should first be used to get your name out there.

So that kind of goes right into how do you find an influencer? Because making sure you have someone that's the right fit. Fit has to be most important. Not just let's go find someone with a bunch of followers, but truly making sure that your audience and their audience are one in the same. Can you share where someone should start to find an influencer?

Yeah. So Ashley, you so totally touched on that and like hit the nail on the head with that because you're, you have to find people who have a very similar audience to you. If you, you know, if your big thing is religion or God or anything like that, you can't send your clothes to an atheist. Like, that's not going to work out. Does that make sense? Like the beef boutique, a vegan is not going to be able to wear those clothes. So, and the point of that is, I mean, you've got to really tap into an audience of people that you want to have as your customers. So it's, I liken it to finding a future wife for your son. You want to find somebody who fits into your family who has the same values and morals and things like that as you do and who you can see representing your brand.

Absolutely. And it doesn't have to be just an influencer known for their style, would you say, but also an influencer that maybe, you know, just like you has different topics that they really touch on. It's not someone just posting clothes every day, but it could be someone who's A food blogger or you name it. Correct?

Yeah, absolutely. I saw maybe in the last two months Charlie One Horse did a, some kind of a collaboration ship with collaborationship. That's a new word. Collaboration with Tomi Lauren, which obviously she is not in this life to be an influencer. You know, she is a serious journalist. However, they used her as a partnership because they knew that her audience is probably the same kind of audience that wants to buy a fashion hat or a cowboy hat. And I thought that that was a really good use of working with somebody who is not and like a fashion influencer per se, but somebody who still has the trust of their followers and who has built a really good relationship with them and who is like side selling them a product.

Yeah, boy, I can see how those two audiences are one in the same. That's a really good fit. Can you talk about that being a short term or a long term relationship?

I still just can't get over the fact that I used collaboration ship.

You should claim that makes total sense.

A collaboration ship. Oh, goodness gracious. Okay, sorry. The question, short term versus long term collaboration. I think that any successful boutique or brand needs to have both. So a long term partnership is kind of like the face of your boutique. They're the kind of person that maybe that you send things to regularly or you have like a long term, an annual contract that you sign per se and maybe you include them in your seasonal photo shoots or something to where people realize that they are part of your overall brand. And then those shorter partnerships, I think I need more coffee. Those can be more test related. So let's say that you start carrying maybe a new genre of clothing or you're, you know, you, you've always carried western clothes, but now you want to carry pieces that are a little bit more boho. You need to tap in to an audience or to an influencer that has an audience. Who is that more boho side of fashion? Because those are the people who are going to, going to come by those clothes and maybe that partnership doesn't work. So you go find another person with a similar audience as that other person did. But it's all about like what kind, where you want that partnership to head and what purpose or goal you want out of that. Right.

What's the roi? So if you're listening as a retailer and you're wondering, okay, I get it, I need to find someone similar, similar to me. Where do I start looking for those influencers and bloggers? Where would you recommend that they start?

So I think a really Good place to start is look at people who currently follow you or currently purchase from you. If there's somebody who has a would consider themselves an influencer or if you would consider themselves an influencer, I think that that's a great place to start. Just because they obviously already know your brand and your product and it's something that they like. So I definitely think that that's a good place. Another area is to just honestly go insta stock and find like 10 people that you think would be a good fit for your brand. Follow them for like three weeks, you may or may not weed them out and then just ask one of them if they want to work with you.

I like it. So rather than waiting for someone to DM you and say, I like your stuff, I'm going to wear your clothes for free. You go search them out.

Yes, exactly. Here's my thought. You would never give. If somebody came into your office and said, I'm a marketer, give me $1,000 and I'm going to market your business for you. Chances are you're not going to give them that thousand dollars. Right. Because that's pretty, like sketchy, untrustworthy. Instead, you're going to go find a marketing firm that you really want to work with that has your values, that has the results that you're looking for, and you're going to give them your thousand dollars.

Absolutely.

So I think that it's very. You've got to think of influencers as a marketing firm or business. And I think that that will change a lot of views and your mindset towards them and just how to work with them in general.

So let's go through how you might evaluate them once you find them. Specifically, if I've got an influencer pulled up on Instagram and I'm evaluating if I should work with this person or not, what would I really be looking for on their feed.

So quality over quantity. I cannot repeat that enough. Quality over quantity. Right. So a big number of followers does not mean big engagement. We see that time and time again. I was actually stalking some people this morning and I was surprised at how many of them who had like the same amount of followers had completely different engagement. And that's key because if people aren't engaging with them, then people aren't seeing your product. So the higher engagement somebody has, obviously the more eyes that are on your business. So that's huge. Another thing is, do they reply to comments? I cannot tell you how frustrated I get when I see somebody who has like a hundred comments and They've never. Or questions like, hey, where did you get this? Where did you get this? What size do you wear? And they've never replied to any of them because those followers are going to get frustrated because they don't know the sizing or they don't know where it came from and chances are they're not going to buy it. Another thing is, do they post too frequently? And this actually sounds like something that wouldn't be a problem, but in my eyes it is because when you go to somebody's Instagram page and you see all of the photos that they've posted, if they are posting like two or three photos a day, in two weeks time, the photo that they posted for you is going to be very far down in their overall feed and chances are people aren't going to continue to scroll down there to see it. So if people post fewer times, like maybe once a day or once or twice a week, your photo is going to show up higher in their feed for a longer duration of time. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. I think that's really good. What about watching their Insta stories? What would you be looking for there?

Just somebody who interacts. So I think it's. That's the whole reason that people follow each other on Instagram, right? They want to see sneak peeks or behind the scenes of their lives. They want to pretend that they're best friends or, you know, whatever it is. So if said influencer isn't interacting or sharing things on stories, they're not going to have as much of a trustworthy relationship with their audience as you probably want.

Exactly. All right, so let's say that you've got your influencer found and you're going to start working with them. Let's talk about how should you plan to maximize that experience and really get an roi.

So you've got to have a content plan developed and what that means is that influencer is posting content on their social media channel and you need to be using that in some way, shape or form, whether that is resharing the shot or the post that they have used or asking them for a second shot. So what I've done in the last probably month, I've started doing this. I'll have Justin take a couple pictures of me and then I post one of those that on my own feed and then I have a second photo that I send to the boutique or brand and they are the ones that post those. It works better if that shot has a different outfit involved because then it Shows the versatility of a piece. But what that is is not only are you getting like content from that, but you're also still getting that initial engagement from the influencer.

Perfect. So second shot, what else?

Something that is so simple to do. Let's say that you send me a shirt and I make a post about this shirt. Post the shirt on your own page. I know that sounds so elementary. And it is. Because nobody wants to go to your Instagram or your website and have to search their little heart out for that dang shirt. They want to buy the shirt. Give them the shirt to buy. Make that like up front and center so that they can easily purchase it. Because you're losing so many sales. If somebody's got to go to page 6 of 7 on your website to look for that piece of clothing.

Yes. So time it. So get to know when your influencer is going to post it so that you're posting it at the same time. That is really simple. But I wouldn't have thought of that. That's super smart.

Yeah. Or even telling them the name of the piece so that if somebody wants to go to your website, they at least know the name to search like, this is me wearing the Rendezvous from Punchies. Like, so then somebody can go to your website and type in the Rendezvous and that shirt is going to come up.

Super smart. What about even featuring that influencer's photo on your website or in an email or putting Facebook ad dollars behind it? How else could you promote it that way?

That is huge. And something else that I have actually not been able to do yet. So somebody else is going to be able to capitalize off my own plan. And this is more geared toward a long term partnership. But anything that person has. So let's say that I shop a lot from Savannah Sevens. Anything that I've bought from Savannah Sevens, they could go in on the backside where they tag products and just type in either my name or Ms. Jarv or whatever it is. So then when somebody goes to their website and searches Ms. Jarvis, all of the pieces of clothing that I have bought for that from them or worn for them, they're all featured right there. So then it's like an inside look at Ms. Jarv's closet brought to you by Savannah Sevens.

Oh, that's a super smart idea. Super smart. And I'm thinking of like immediately I'm thinking about Jess Lee Boutique and all these members of the Boutique cup that work with influencers a lot. Like, that's a great idea to do.

Yeah. I haven't been able to use that yet, but I've been. I mean, it's in the works. Hopefully somebody will take me up on that, and maybe it's more complicated than what I'm seeing. But if you're able to tag a product as you know to come up as black shirt or leopard top, you should certainly be able to put in an influencer's name and then have that those pieces come up when you search for them.

Absolutely. Okay, this brings me to another question. So let's talk about the way influencers tag boutiques in their post. Maybe to help retailers or brands that are listening. Go. Okay. I want to make sure my influencer is not just, like, pushing a sale, but actually, like, sharing this shirt in a more natural way. I know you know what I'm talking about.

Can you.

Can you put your own spin on that?

Yes. So if someone were to go to my Instagram page, they will probably notice that 9.75 times out of 10, I only tag a boutique or brand in the photo. I never actually talk about the item in my caption. And the reason is because I still want to be showing my lifestyle, if that makes sense. I don't ever want to be like, the buy this top from Punchies or buy this top from Frosted Cowgirls or whoever it is. I want it to kind of be like second nature, like second place, if that makes sense. Like, the photo of me comes up and the photo of what I or the caption of what I'm doing or, you know, describing that photo, and then, oh, gosh, I like that shirt. I'm going to tap on that photo to find out where it's from. And I do something else. I definitely get a lot of questions because, you know, people don't necessarily tap the photos. They haven't got that quite figured out yet. So I still have to answer a lot of questions about where I got something. But that also allows me to engage with those followers and they think that they're getting, you know, something out of it, because I responded to their comment.

Right. And it's just natural conversation that way. It's not you just pushing.

Yes. I cannot tell you how frustrated I get when I see people who just like posts to sell all day long. Because, honestly, I think that that ruins, like, the validity of influencer relationships in general.

Absolutely. All right, so let's talk about contracts, because I think that this is probably where, you know, the majority of boutiques that we hear from in the boutique of that say, gosh, I've been Burned by an influencer. A lot of times it comes down to just not having the same set of expectations, you and the influencer. So can you talk about contracts and how they work, what you should have in a contract and why they're important?

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, you've got to have just the general things, post frequency, post type, stipulations, compensation and insight. And I'm going to dig deeper into those now. So post frequency and post type, you want to specify what kind of a post you want, whether that's an Instagram post or stories, how many of those that you want, and the frequency of that. So maybe it's going to be more of like a long term relationship. So you want a per. You want your influencer to post about every 45 days and maybe you want them to post within two weeks of receiving the item. There are lots of different things and that kind of goes along the lines of are they promoting your overall brand or are they promoting a specific item? If it's going to be item promotion, it obviously needs to happen with a quicker turnaround time just because that item still needs to be on your shelves. Otherwise it's not necessarily paying in the way that you want it to if that item's already sold out. But if it's somebody, it's that long term partnership, chances are they're just promoting your brand in general so you can give them a longer duration to post within. Does that make sense?

Yep, that totally makes sense.

Yeah. Another thing, make sure you're utilizing Stories. I cannot tell you I have such better luck sending traffic via stories than I do via a post. It's almost, I would say two or three times the amount of traffic. It's unreal to me. But stories are expected to take over posts in the future. I heard from a friend in the last month that Facebook and Instagram, they have a big team that is solely dedicated to the expansion of Stories. And now you can sell product and stories. So stories are going to be the new, like the new fast track to success, essentially. But that swiping up or instant link click link click, instant link click is so valuable in stories. And you've got to make sure your influencer is using that. The other thing I like about Stories is you only see it for 24 hours. So if I were to post to, if I were to make two posts for the same business in a week, it's going to look a little bit more forced. Whereas if I make two stories in the same week, it's kind of like an out of sight, out of mind thing. So it's going to look much more natural.

Absolutely. How would you ask, if you're a retailer listening, how do you ask your influencer to share the insights on that? So you can actually see hard numbers of what's being clicked on and what's being viewed so you can kind of verify that ROI that you're getting.

So I would add that as a stipulation within your contract, they say that. So story insights, obviously a person can send those within, you know, after the first 24 hours, but before 14 days. Because stories do disappear after 14 days, but. And then they say that photo posts, so an actual post on your page, those insights are accurate after about five to seven days. You've got your initial traffic on the first day you post it, and then there's going to be some residual traffic up to about five to seven days. They do need to have a business account, which again, I think is kind of another thing that sets apart, you know, the professional influencer from the not so professional influencer.

Just.

Because if they aren't able to track the success of a partnership either, then how do they know that you are a good fit for them also?

Absolutely. So having an actual written contract in place, I know you have one and you wrote the one that's in the boutique hub, right? The sample contract that you have.

Yeah, I did. And you know, I'm going to be perfectly honest, this past fall, I have not been that great about doing a contract. And it's one of those things that really puts me on edge. It's. It's just been such a busy time. And so it's one of the things that I've let slip. And it's not. I shouldn't be doing that because I have been burned in the past also by not doing a contract. And I should know better. So that's kind of on my game plan for 2019, is Get Better about sending out that contract. And I think a lot of it is people. And by people, I mean boutiques and brands that I've worked with. When I say I have a contract that they want that I want you to sign, that scares them off. And it shouldn't because it's not only protecting me, but it's protecting them as well. I just want everything all out on the table so that we know how many posts you're going to get or you know, when they're going to happen. Because I don't want you badgering me every single day, hey, when are you going to make this post. Hey, when are you going to make this post? Because I mean, I also have other businesses that I'm working with, if that makes sense.

Yep, makes sense. And it's peace of mind for everyone involved. One thing I don't think we covered kind of along this line and it's just popping in my head now is can you speak to you having the opportunity as an influencer to pick out the items that you want to wear from the boutique versus the boutique picking them out and sending them to you?

Yeah, absolutely. So that's one of the things that I, I do stipulate that I'm allowed to pick out the item that I want to feature. And that sounds very diva ish, but that's not the case at all. The reason that I do that, it all goes back to what we init talked about in regards to honesty and authentic being authentic. And that is if I'm not wearing something I like, you're not. I'm not going to take a good photo of it or not going to put a good outfit together behind it. That post isn't going to do as well and it's not going to turn out good for either of us. So I want to be able to pick the items that I feature because I want to be excited about them. I know that they work with other pieces in my closet. That's also going to make a post happen faster with me just because it's not work in the sense of like trying to build an outfit around whatever item it is if I don't have anything that fits with it or matches with it in my own closet. And so that is something that's really, really important to me. I will take things that, that I didn't pick out, but it has to be something that I do like. So again, I'm not pushing something that I don't like and I do require payment for those just because it's not my choice, if that makes sense. And that's going to be more of the item promotion. Like if you have a big run of a certain shoe or a sweater, you want that specific item promoted. So chances are you're going to have to put some monetary compensation behind that.

That makes sense. How about when you have those items as an influencer, talk about, and this is something that's probably inside of your contract, but not being able to turn around and sell those items that a brand sent you tomorrow.

Yes. So I think I have a stipulation that says 45 days before I can sell something and that's Just in respect to a business owner. Because if I wear something and then sell it the next week, that looks awfully fishy. Like, oh, gosh, Jesse must not have liked that. Or, you know, she just did it for money, whatever it is. And then it's also not taking away from your stock and your business as well.

Absolutely. So good. Well, let's go back to. I've got some more questions about how you. How you do all of what you do on a daily basis. I know you get these questions a lot too. I think that there's been a ton of value here in terms of man actionable takeaways and how to work with influencers and retailers and wholesalers, how this collaboration takes place. But let's talk about you as a rancher and an influencer and you work at the boutique Hub. You do all these things. Talk about how you stay motivated as an individual every single day to keep doing what you do. Because I know it's hard to get up and make this sounds like such a first world problem. It's hard to make an Instagram post. Oh, it's so hard. But sometimes it's hard to be motivated to share things when you just don't want to. So where's that motivation come from?

You know, it totally it. You're right about that. It is sometimes I. There are months where I wish I could just turn off Instagram for the month. But I see my role as an influencer being not that I want to see myself because if anybody knows me, they know that I don't. Like, I would rather be behind the scenes and not like the. A team leader or whatever that is, but the people who are following me want to see things from me. That's why they follow me. I cannot tell you how many messages I get of I just want to be friends with you or I wish we were neighbors or whatever it is. And those are the. Those are the kind of relationships that I want to build and foster. And so I need to be there for those people, if that makes sense. I've also gotten, you know, messages of you. Like, I've been having a bad week and this video or this post or like it really resonated with me and made me feel better, you know, I mean, those are the kind of things that I want to be. To be doing and be known for. Not necessarily, you know, what socks I'm wearing or what toilet paper I use or whatever it is.

All the things you could share. Oh, my gosh.

I use Kirkland brand toilet paper in case Anyone cares.

What about, you know, Jet? Tell me about, you know, having a baby and really that requires kind of a whole nother of balance or a whole nother type of balance on a daily basis and introducing him into what you do on a daily. On a daily basis too. Talk about that.

Oh, it totally does. So kind of off of off of the question. But I always thought before I got pregnant that I would. I was mad at other pregnant women who didn't like showcase their bumps or, you know, being fashionable for pregnancy. And I always told myself that I'm going to do that. Well, guess who didn't do that because I was sicker than a dog and you just feel gross and you know, it was. We had a rough winter and whatever it was. So I really took a back. Like I let influencing take a back seat. I would still post ranch photos, but outfit photos didn't happen because I didn't really feel that great about myself, if that makes sense. It was just uncomfortable to get dressed and nothing fits right or looks right. And it's essentially like having to like relearn how to put an outfit together. And so during that time I feel like a lot of opportunities, I got left out of them naturally. Obviously because I'm pregnant, I couldn't travel very well. I was sick. I didn't want to do it anyways. But I kind of felt a little bit sorry for myself just because I saw all of my other friends or girls that I look up to doing these big things or going to NFR and I was at home on the couch in my fat sweats. I mean, I definitely didn't get depressed or in a funk about it. But in a way, I am so glad that I had that time because I was able to take a step back and really look at the influencing world with clear vision just because I wasn't necessarily a part of it for that time period. And so then after having jit, I kind of felt like I was reinvigorated and I had some awesome opportunities that came up and I didn't like, I didn't let them pass by because I knew that they wouldn't always be there because not long before that I had been in a place where those opportunities didn't come. So to answer your question, which didn't answer your question because this isn't even on the topic of your question. However, I've definitely now that Jett is older and I can do more stuff with him, it's hard to balance it all. But I think that as a mother and as A woman. And as a wife, you've got to take that time for yourself and let yourself. Don't put yourself in the corner and let everybody else have their day. You've got to have yours as well. So take those opportunities, do the things you want to do, and don't feel guilty about it.

Boy, well said. And I think if you're listening, no matter what business you're in, that's so true. Even if you're a retailer, you're a boutique owner or a brand, sometimes you do have to just take that time.

Oh, absolutely. And even in the hub, we see so many people who think like, oh, well, I'm only gonna, I'm gonna have my baby and I'm gonna, you know, come back a week after or two weeks after. I mean, if you want to do that, that's totally fine, but don't, I mean, don't feel like you have to. If you want to spend time with your kid, do it. If you want to go back to your business, do it. You shouldn't feel guilty one way or the other, but if your business is in a slump, like during the end of your pregnancy and the first few months of your child's life, like, cut yourself some slack, sister.

Absolutely. Amen to that. What other questions do you get asked a lot when in your Instagram?

I definitely get a lot of ranching questions and the one that I feel guiltiest about getting asked is how do you start a ranch? Or how do you, like, how do you get into ranching if you're not currently involved? So I don't have a good answer for that question because I'm very lucky in the sense that my family has been here for 75 years. My parents didn't have any other kids, so I am an only child. So like, that is all going to come to my husband and I. But at the same time, that's a lot of freaking work because we don't get to share our responsibilities with anybody else. My parents are also in their 70s, so we are doing the work that most like 40 or 50 year old people are doing at 28. And so it, like, it looks glamorous, but it's not. And I wish that I had an answer for those people. I wish that land was cheaper and I wish that, I mean, cattle are cheap right now, unfortunately. So go buy yourself some cattle, I guess, but you might have to run them in your yard if you don't have any grass for them. So.

True. There's a lot of stress behind the scenes and I Mean, you and I can relate on this because I grew up on a ranch as well. There's so much stress behind the scenes that people don't know about when it comes to ranching because it is, it's all about the volatility of the market and also the weather.

Oh, absolutely. Well, so Justin and I were selling our cattle tomorrow at the sale and it's supposed to rain and snow today, so we don't even know if we can get a truck in tomorrow to load them out. So just like that, there's things that, I mean, we've been planning to sell our cattle on the November 28th for the last month. And if mother nature doesn't cooperate, we may or may not be able to do that. And if we can't, then we've got to feed them another week and that's going to cost more money and we have a higher chance of death, loss. I mean, we haven't lost anything yet this year, but seven more days is seven more days of opportunity to lose something. So it's very stressful.

Absolutely. So two more questions and I know I've totally monopolized your time this morning, but first question, you know, kind of a wrap up in terms of the business conversation we were having. If you could give one, go to tip. For a retailer who is interested in working with an influencer in 2019, what would it be?

Find somebody who represents your brand and have an authentic partnership with them. That would be my biggest takeaway or advice. Just because I see so many businesses out there who are collaborating and it looks so forced and they've got this code for 10% off and they're just pushing their code and I just do it. So it's authentic and it's natural. And if I think that's where somebody's going to find the most success.

So good. So true.

All right. Honestly, If I, in 2019, if, if there was never another brand rep, I probably wouldn't be sorry about it. And the reason that I say this is because I feel like I see the importance of brand reps for, for actual brands and wholesale reps. But if you want, if you want to do a brand rep partnership, just have a long term partnership with an influencer. It's going to look so much more natural. You're not going to have to lose 20% of your sales and I think that you're going to get a lot more return out of that.

Spot on. Totally agree. Last question for you personally, my friend, and do you even listen to this podcast? I Don't even know. Do you know what the last question is off the top of your head side?

No, I don't.

It's so. Isn't that funny? Like, we create things at the boutique, but then do you actually go back and listen to them? That's a good question. So the last question of most podcasts, I digress, is about the bigger picture of why we do what we do. Because you and I know. I mean, we have all kinds of conversations on a regular basis about why the Boutique Hub exists or why a boutique business exists. It has nothing to do with actual products that we sell. It has everything to do with the impact that you leave on the world around you and how you make other people feel along the way. So I'd love to know from your perspective when you look at your life as a wife and a mom and a rancher and an influencer and someone who is a huge part of our team and our community at the Boutique Hub. I'd love to know, when you're sitting with Jet and Justin on the porch, you know, 20, 30 years from now, and you look back at this crazy life and how it unfolded, what is the thing that you want people to remember the most about your legacy that you left behind?

So, once again, I'm kind of going to digress in this question as well. The reason that I have an outside job is if something were to happen to Justin, to where, you know, he couldn't ranch or wasn't here, I always want to be able to have a backup plan. I never want something big to happen to our family and then me not to have some kind of an income source. So. But part of that is that's also why I do influencing as well. I know that it's an opportunity that I, you know, may not ever get to have, and I want to take that opportunity while I can because it may provide future things for my family that we may or may not need, if that makes sense. But again, going along back to your question of what kind of a legacy do I want to leave? I want people to, like, remember me long past the days of Instagram. You know, if they see me somewhere, I want them to say, oh, you know, that's that Jessie Jarvis girl. She was there when I really needed her to be, or she brightened my day, or, you know, she shared her struggles and they made mine easier to deal with. For me, I just want to have that kind of an impact on people to where I am in somehow way, shape or form, able to make their lives a little Easier or happier?

I love it. Well, Jesse, thanks for making my life easier and happier along the way as well. You've been such a good friend of mine. I mean, the things that we have in common I just laugh about. Our brains think so similar.

Can we tell everybody about the potholders real quick?

We should. So yesterday, Tiffany McGon and Jesse and I are all partners in owning a magazine, Western Runway, that we produce for the nfr. And yesterday, Jesse sent this text message to Tiffany, teasing her about her upcoming wedding and these potholders that she was going to get her for her wedding. And I'll let you take it from there. What happened from there?

So the potholders, it's this little girl, and she's petting her horse. And it essentially says, like, I don't like people either. Which this time of year, Tiffany.

Tiffany.

And I get a little on edge about people in general and, you know, the crowds of Vegas and whatever it is. And so I. I also said that I'm going to buy some. My. Some of these pot holders myself. And then about five minutes later, Ashley texts us a photo of this potholder on her bed and says, jesse, I actually already bought these for you.

Great minds think alike. Like, it's just like the corniest potholder. But I don't even remember where I was almost two months ago. I was traveling somewhere and I found these, and I was like, oh, my gosh, Jesse Jarvis needs these potholders. So Merry Christmas. Spoiled your gift, but now you know what you're getting.

I really do like people, I promise.

You know what? One question I was going to ask you during the show, and we're still recording, so I'll ask you now. But I always ask people, you know, what's your biggest fear? Snakes, Payroll, or Internet trolls? And really that's why the potholders are so funny, is because we all work online a lot, and Tiffany's online a lot, too. You know, she's got a very public life, big blog her fiance has. You know, he's kind of like the superstar of the sport of rodeo, if you're not familiar with Tough Cooper. So they leave a lead a very public life as well. And so dealing with Internet trolls is, like, a constant battle. Can you. Can you speak to that?

Oh, it totally is. And, you know, I have been so very blessed. I have probably only gotten, like, five Internet troll type issues in my entire Instagram existence. And I definitely credit that to my attitude in the sense that I only try to, like, bring up the happy or the positive or the inspiring. I'm not save the drama for your mama. Like, that's my motto. I don't really, like, publicize that. And I think that that definitely limits the, like, the Internet troll situation, if that makes sense. However, my life is also not as public as others, and everybody thinks they have an opinion and they're behind their keyboards. And so they've got that little shield of bravery on. And, you know, if there is somebody who's an inner natural listening to this, which in a way I hope there's not, because they're. I'm going to have given them a lot of ammunition today. Just be nice. Honestly, it's not that hard to be kind to people. Do unto others as you want them to do to you. I mean, it's. It's not that hard. And I think that that's the golden rule is such an important thing. And, you know, in life and in business, treat your customers the way you want to be treated as a customer. I do that a lot in terms of influencing. I treat others in my business relationship as I want to be treated in a business relationship, you know, or your employees treat them as you want to be treated as an employee. It goes so far in life. So anyways, tangent, but there we are.

It's not just how you treat them to their face, though, that's important, and you've got a story to this, but it's also character is who you are in the dark, so you want to be treated. Also speaks to Instagram dms, private Facebook messages. Can you tell them the eyebrow story?

Oh, yeah. So this is my most recent Internet troll, and I think actually the only one that I've had this year. And I had. We had just gotten done doing some cow work, and Justin and I had gone to town to the farm store and Jet was sleeping in the backseat. So Justin went in to the store and I just made like a little Instagram video while I was sitting there. Well, I didn't have any makeup on and I was full of dirt. And somebody decided to share my story with their friend. But really she sent her message to me as an accident. And it said, gosh, her eyebrows are gnarly. And so I told her thank you, because that's how I deal with Internet trolls. I just tell them thanks to make sure that. Acknowledging that I saw the message. But then I edited out her name and, like, her identity and I posted it on my story and I said, hey, like, be nice, like, doing this kind of stuff, I mean, it's not healthy. It's not helpful to Anybody, like, treat others the way you want to be treated. Well, she actually messaged me and said, thank you for putting me on blast. I meant to send that message to my sister. And, you know, I realized how I would have felt had I received that message, and I'm really sorry. And you really could have, like, ripped me a new one, but you didn't, and I appreciate that. So I learned a lesson. Thank you. And I was really nice to her and I said, hey, don't sweat it. Like, it happens. You learned your lesson and you were kind about it also, because I feel like in that situation, she probably also could have been very mean about it. And we left as friends.

So for what that's worth, Absolutely great takeaway, man. So, so many lessons today. Holy smokes. You and I could go on down so many rabbit holes, but I'm going to save everyone who's listening.

This has been the longest hour and five minutes of my life.

It's been so much fun, though. Oh, my gosh. Hey, what a treat to have you on the podcast. Thank you for doing this and thank you for everything you do for everyone at the hub. It is so appreciated.

Yes, absolutely. And honestly, if any of you hubbies have influencing questions, you are more than welcome to email me those or DM me, whatever, what other method smoke signals, you know, But I. In the next few weeks, I'm a little bit busy, but other than that, I will always answer those asap. And hopefully we can get you the perfect fit with somebody out there who can help market your business.

All right. Love it. Thanks, girl.

Okay, see ya.

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