#267: Diversity In Retail with DeAnna McIntosh, Founder and Global Retail + E-commerce Consultant at The Affinity Group International

Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast this week and the YouTube video that.

Goes along with the podcast.

I am so glad that you are here. This week's conversation is with my friend Deanna McIntosh of Diversifying Retail. And it's actually a conversation that we had inside of the Virtual Retail Summit just a couple of weeks ago. So you'll hear us reference the Virtual Summit. Now, Deanna was gracious enough to have this conversation with me out of pure love in her heart because I wanted to come and ask questions and that I felt like I was hearing from the community that they wanted to ask but just didn't quite know how to ask on the topics around diversity and inclusion and the race conversation that's happening in our country and in our world right now, today. So today I wanted to ask just from a basis of how does this greater conversation impact our retail industry and impact our businesses and if there's questions that others want to ask but just didn't know how to take today inside this conversation you'll see that I just kind of lay my heart on my sleeve and I'm honest about the fact that I personally grew up in a very white place, you know, at least 80 miles from a town with a Walmart or a stoplight, 300 miles from a town with even a shopping mall in really an all white part of the world in rural America today. Now, I'm not here to tell you that one part of the country is better than the other or one experience is better than the other. But the fact is we all come from different walks of life. And so our experiences, our conversations, our levels of empathy, they're all going to be different. And my personal feeling is the only way for our world to change or to shape is by us just having a hard conversation or asking ourselves uncomfortable questions that we may not have ever asked before. So today I just wanted to be that voice for those of you that were messaging me saying, how do I approach this? How does this information impact me? I don't really know what to do. I just want to be that voice for you today. Now, I don't want to upset anybody. I'm sure I probably asked a question wrong or said something wrong, I have no idea. I probably made a number of mistakes that you're going to find in this conversation. But the fact is I just wanted to have it. So I hope you appreciate this podcast today. I hope you appreciate the video from the Virtual Retail Summit and I appreciate Deanna being willing to have this great conversation with with us. So you guys if you learn anything today or have a question or takeaway today, email me. Ashley@the boutiquehub.com I'd love to know what you think. You guys, we are here in complete community over competition. Whether that's in the retail industry itself or I think it's a view we need to take of the whole world. How can we lift one another up? I hope you enjoy the conversation today. You guys enjoy. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works from mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat.

Deanna, thank you so much for being with us today.

Thank you so much for having me, Ashley.

We were chatting before we started this session and there has never been a more important time in history to have this conversation. And I want to just like lead with my heart today. And as I've shared, you know, in the Boutique Hub and on our social media, if anyone feels like, gosh, I want to have this conversation but I don't know how to have the conversation. I don't know what questions to ask because I feel like I might ask the wrong ones. I'm going to be the girl that takes the fall for everyone today because you guys know I'm super white and I'm from North Dakota and grew up with zero diversity. So if there's the wrong question that I ask, please know my heart is in the right place and I want to lead for everybody who doesn't know how to ask that question. So Deanna, thank you for being willing to come and share your voice and have this conversation with all of us.

Thank you for initiating the conversation. That's the first step. Always is what I say.

I appreciate that. Well, we've also had some great conversations so far inside of our community at the Boutique Hub and I feel like it's given our community more of a voice and it's helped all of our black owned businesses, all of our diverse group of members been able to find each other in a new way where they didn't know we that one another existed before. And that really breaks my heart that that's how we were operating. And so we have certainly opened our eyes to a number of things that we need to work on including our marketing Efforts, including our guests, speakers, podcasts, guests, you name it. How we support all of the businesses that are our members and also provide education to all of our members. So as we get into this conversation today, Deanna, I know you've been having a lot of these conversations, but you are a retail expert first and foremost, which the affinity group I want to lead with that. This is your bread and butter to understand retail businesses. And now we're adding another layer on top of that. So I would love it. Would you please just start by sharing a little bit of your background, how you came to be in this business, and what we should know.

Yes, I actually fell in love with fashion and retail in middle school. And my mom, I blame her, but she used to dress me head to toe in, like, monochromatic colors. So I was wearing pink that day. It was pink. Everything, including my crayons, had to match my outfit. And she was just so funny. And I didn't even really know that fashion. Retail was a career. And my mom was a speech pathologist, my dad was a cfo. And so when I talked to them about it for the first time, they were like, no, no, that's not a career. And so I spent a lot of time at the library finding books about fashion. I remember I found one about product development and then learned about all those careers and show my parents, and they are like, oh, okay. And so fast forward. They eventually let me go to the Fashion Institute of Technology for college, and my major is international fashion merchandising management. And they also allowed me to be in their study abroad program, where I went overseas to Florence, Italy, for a year, studying fashion there as well. And so it's always been a part of me. And then after I graduated college, I was a buyer for chico's for about four years, managed $117 million department, launched the new the no Iron collection. If you look at it now, five years later, it's like a whole huge, big collection, probably multimillion dollars. So that was my proud moment. I also worked on their TV catalog and print ads. And so I've had my hand in a lot of different areas of the retail industry. And I launched the affinity group International because I saw that small businesses did not have those same tools and strategies and processes that I use when I was a buyer. So now my job is to help small businesses compete on the same level as the big retailers that I used to work for.

I love it. Very aligned with what we do at the boutique hub. I appreciate that. So fast forward to today. Your Business has taken a little bit of a turn in light of the tragic murders that we've had in our country. And I just, you know, out of respect, I want to start by asking, how are you doing? And taking in this moment of time that we're living in.

Yeah, I take things day by day, and I've never considered myself to be an activist. You know, I'm not. Well, I guess I am kind of, in a way, but I don't know. But I just saw from being in this industry for so long, I know how I've been treated. I know how I have trouble getting into trade shows sometimes, you know, things like that. And there wasn't one person that I saw specifically talking about retail, but from the behind the scenes, which is kind of how I like to be most times. And So I launched diversifyretail.com because of what we're doing right now. There's so many people who want to know, well, what can I do? They see all the lists of black brands to shop, but it's like, okay, well, but what else can I do? Or how can I start these conversations with my team? So I took it upon myself to start diversified retail.com, where you can send me a message and then we can kind of work together to figure out next steps forward. So just opening up the lines of communication because I know a lot of people in my community are angry, they're sad. It's an up and down roller coaster every day. And my husband's a black man, so I have to be strong for him. And, you know, it's a lot. So I wanted to make sure that anyone who wanted to try to get involved in change or affect some type of change, but didn't have anybody to talk to, didn't have a black person to talk to who can relate to them. That's what diversify retail is very helpful.

Well, let's start at some of the basic questions that I know everyone's probably thinking and when we think about diversifying retail, I want to start with, what does that mean? And what's the best place to start? Like, what if we are brand new to this conversation? Where is the first step into the process?

I think understanding if diversity is a part of your values. Right, Because I mean, look internally. I always say, me, you, everyone, look inside. What are your values as a person? You know, do you value diversity? Do you value inclusion? So see what you value and then if those values do reflect, yes, I want diversity. I want different people, gender, you know, races, walks of life involved in my life and involved in my business, if that's a yes. All right, now here's the next step. How do we get there? What does that look like? It means making sure that your employees also have those same values. And some employees might not make it because of that. That's not a thing. It's because you, as the owner, can have all the best intentions in the world, but if the people working for you don't align to that, that's automatically going to hurt your cause and hurt your heart and hurt what you stand for. And then, you know, making sure that you're sending that message that that's what you want. Prime example is, like, different events that I've been to throughout my life. You know, if I'm one or two persons of color out of a room of 300, that does not send a message to me that you want me there. So just looking at literally every area of your business to see how you can bring diversity inside your employees, your products, your communication, your Instagram feed. What is the message that you're putting out? And then kind of start from there and take. It's. It's going to take you time, right? We know it's not going to happen overnight, but as long as it's thoughtful and intentional, that's what matters.

Do you feel like, you know, first internalizing and having that conversation with team and then. Then as you start to ask your community? I feel like, for us, anyway, this was surprising. And I think for a lot of our members, it's been surprising just to ask, like, who. Who are my customers? I have a much more diverse customer base than I'm even aware of. How can small businesses start to ask that question? But to even back up a step if they don't know how to ask that question. I posed this the other day. I said, you know, I always thought I should say woman of color or African American. I didn't feel like I could even say the word black owned. I felt like that would offend someone. So, again, this is black, right? What's the best way to ask that question? If someone just wants to say, hey, are you here? I want to support you, let's come together. Like, what's the proper way to go about that?

That's a good question. Yeah. Because I think it changes, to be honest. And I think the same way I lgbtq, that, like, the correct terminology to use for that community continues to change. I think you just have to, like, find at least one source who's maybe an activist. Right. Who's in that community that you know will always know exactly where we are as far as the movement. And then echo what they're saying and ask, like, find, you should have at least one person of color that you trust or a person of the opposite race. So I should have a white person, an Hispanic person that I know that I trust that I can ask that question to. I think that's even better. Like, don't spend time guessing. Talk to the trust person and ask them. I've had my friends, I've had plenty of friends and businesses send me messages and say, is this okay for me to say? And I respond and let them know.

That's so helpful. Oh, man. And I'm thankful for those of you that are watching. We have a group that's just come together at the boutique, come to be that for us. I'm so thankful for them because they field are questions.

Yes.

And now all of our members have you to ask the questions as well. So I really am. So let's start here with. All right, I want to have a conversation with my team. I want to have the conversation with my community. And I also, like, I want to make a statement of where, like, I support where my heart lies. And I know we had Blackout Tuesday and so a lot of businesses post Black Square, but I think there was still confusion around how to even do that or is that enough? Or like, what is the next step? So talk to me about, like, what did Blackout Tuesday mean to you and to the retail community? And then where do we go from there?

Yes, Blackout Tuesday was supposed to be. And that's the other thing is I think some telephone happened and there was confusion about what it actually was supposed to mean. But yes, everyone who aligned with the Black Lives Matter cause would have posted that Black Square and said hashtag blackouttuesday. But I think the difference is just posting the square says. It either says, yes, I'm with it. Actually, it does say this. Yes, I'm with the cause, but I'm not going to tell you exactly how because that might offend someone. That's how it's taken. Right. So not saying anything at all is actually saying a heck of a lot.

Brings up a good point. I. And I feel like the more I read and try to educate myself, I've. I realized that silence and neutrality don't exist on this topic.

Right.

Talk to me about what? Like when someone tries to stay neutral, how that does appear.

Yes, neutrality is going to make things a million times worse than just not even saying anything at all. Because it's essentially saying, like. Like we just talked about, I'm kind of for justice, but only just for the looks of it. I don't actually align with it. And really, it's. I know I was on a webinar yesterday, and someone said, well, how do I comment or send out a message to my audience without it being polarizing or political? So you see me, I'm a human being. My existence on this earth has nothing to do with being a Democrat, Republican, Independent, whatever you are, and has nothing to do with politics. It is about being a human being. That's it. Like, point blank period. And so that's what black lives matter is about. It's not. Black lives are the only lives that matter.

Yeah.

It's saying black lives matter as well as everyone else's lives.

Yeah, I want to.

Yeah. You have to be clear.

I think in order as I'm thinking about all of my white friends listening to this, and they're like, okay, I'm neutral, because I maybe don't understand. What does black lives matter mean? And maybe their, like, early opinion of black lives matter was it was, you know, kneeling for the national anthem, which they were opposed to, or, like, they had another definition tied to it. And so can you go back for me for a second and talk about what black lives matter really means and why black lives matter is different from all lives matter? Like, we know that all lives matter.

Right.

But do you want to do the house?

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah. So it's like, you have to focus. If something. Your house is on fire, right? You need the fire truck to come to your house right now. Fix it now. You're not like. But all the other houses in the neighborhood, they matter, too. Can you go attend to them? They're not on fire. Their house isn't burning down. You know, the black lives right now, their house is burning down. Being killed by police, you know, unequal pay, discrimination, racism, all that crazy stuff is happening every day, all day. We need help. It's a scream. Sos. We need to focus on black lives because they matter, too. Everybody else's lives matter as well. But right now, this is what the focus has to be so we can affect change. Mm.

That's really. That's so helpful to hear it described that way, because I. I mean, I'll admit, like, I didn't really fully understand that. I can completely understand, like, someone needs help, like, right now. We have to solve this right now. Right. And, yes, it goes without saying that every other life matters just as much. We're all children of God. Right. We're all created in the same image and likeness. And I was journaling last night and I don't know if this helps this conversation at all, but I kept thinking whether you wear a mask or whether you don't wear a mask, whether you are all in Black Lives Matter or you're unsure but you want to be helpful, whether you're Democrat or Republican, really the battle that we're facing isn't an either or in any of these conversations. It's a good versus evil. It's a love and light versus darkness. And so it's just like how we choose to pick up what we're gonna align with and push forward for those good, love and light messages.

Absolutely. And it's not like we're saying, you know, everyone needs to be out there protesting. You have your own way to contribute to the cause. Like this conversation is my way. Whether small, whether big, this is how I contribute. You know, boutique owners, your contribution might to be buy black owned brands to have in your stores. That's a great contribution. Right. So everyone has their own place. But we need the community, the world to come together and understand what we're going through, shine a light on what we have been going through. Because, you know, it's not like this has just happened with George Floyd. This has been happening for hundreds and hundreds of years. And it's that now, I think the inhumanity of that video and just the blatant length of it, just watching someone die, I think that kind of put a light bulb on for a lot of people to say, wait, let me, let me dig a little deeper here and talk to people like me. Like, what was your experience in retail? Or you know, what do you actually go through? Because unconsciously black people wake up every day and you have to think you're reminded that you're black. And I think that's, that's the thing that's been draining throughout this whole entire last month is like every day you wake up, oh yeah, you're black, you're going to have to go through something today or you're going to have to dress a certain way when you go to the store today so that people actually speak to you. And that's crazy, you know, and nobody wants to be reminded that of that every day. So to turn on the news all the time and have to hear about it and on social media, it is a lot. But it's necessary. We all have to share. You know, you, I want to hear your experiences. You know, people should hear Mine so that we understand what it's like to be in the other person's shoes. And I think that will help people really understand what this movement is about.

I get goosebumps hearing you say the thought of like waking up and reminding yourself that I can't even wrap my mind around that. And. And I'm going to be really? Again, I'll be the honest girl here.

Yes.

I think that sometimes white people hear the words white privilege and it just ticks them off.

Right, Right.

Dude, I grew up on a farm, like dirt poor. Like, there was no privilege. But then now. So now I'm like, okay, what does that even mean? And I watched a great video the other day from Nicole Walters and Nicole, her last boutique summit, and I think she's just an absolute rock star. And she posted a video and so you guys can go find this on her Instagram. And she was talking about her experience one time getting pulled over by a police officer. And she was talking about how she's now had to train her kids that every time you're pulled over, she's saying, okay, sir, like, here's my hands and I'm reaching here and my information's in my purse, sir, I'm reaching for my purse. My purse is blue. Sir, here's my hands. Like, the thought of her even having to go through that, let alone her kids, to me, that was the most eye opening experience. And hearing her story and going, oh my gosh, like, I've never even thought about that.

Right, right.

Is that what's meant by white privilege is that you don't even have to think about that process?

Right. There's so many things that don't have to be thought about. And even today my husband went. I forget where he said he wanted to go, but I told him, I don't want you to go anywhere without me. Literally, like, I don't even want to walk on my street. Like, do not walk down my street without me with you. Yes. And so that's what it means. It's things that you probably don't even know about because you don't have to experience it. So. Yes. Like being pulled over by the police, that's one thing. Or applying for a job interview, you know, and having to form yourself a certain way to be accepted or to even get an interview in the first place. And when you get to the company, I've had this experience so many times, you know, knowing that if you wear your hair with braids, which is, you know, a lot of black women wear braids. In their hair because it protects your hair. Blah, blah, blah. And it's a pretty style. If you wear braids to work, it's going to be a conversation. Can I touch your hair? Can I like, oh, how did you do that? How did your hair grow from. Oh, no.

I feel like I've asked. I've asked this question. Key is in this community. And key, I've asked her if I could touch her hair before. Now I feel like such an idiot. Oh, my gosh.

No, no, no. But that's what happened, literally. And it's not just the president. I worked at Chico's. I was a buyer. Every day was a new discovery of the black experience. The president of Chico's would come to me and say, can I. Oh, but your hair was short yesterday and it's long today. Do you have a weave? And I was like, that is not appropriate for you to ask me, first of all. But that. For me, that tells me that obviously. And she could have grown up like you.

Yeah. And would have no idea.

And so you don't mean anything by it. And that's why I just. I laughed it off and I thought it was funny. But. But those things. Right. So. And I had a colleague I talked to yesterday who's black, who also worked at Chico's and was told she went on vacation and had braids and was told she needed to take them out before she came back to work. Literally. This was probably five years. Five years ago. Oh, man, this isn't far removed. So it's like we have to. They, you know, were wanted to change ourselves, change the way we talk, the way we look, the way we do our hair to fit a mold that we don't fit into wearing an afro, that's a problem. You know, like, and I. People have said that whenever my hair was like this straight, everyone at work is like, oh, my gosh, I love your hair. It's so pretty as soon as it's in a natural. And my hair is natural. But I mean, like an afro type state or a little kinkier. No comments back this way. Your hair is so much prettier that way. You should wear it that way more often.

Oh, my God. Yeah.

So it's just all of the different biases.

And Diana, I was gonna compliment you on your hair when you first got on this video, because I love it now. I'm like, God.

Yeah. But it wouldn't have come from that same place because you don't see me every day. Right. But there's. It is really sorry My bangs are like, ugh. But it's crazy because there's systemic things and you hear people talk about systems racism, and that's the conversation of things that are under the surface that contribute to the bigger picture. And that's when the white privilege comes into play. Because same thing like, okay, yes, there's not many people of color in corporate retail environments. Why is that? Well, maybe because when we go for the job application, we're discriminated against because of our name. And they're like, oh, that person's black. Not even going to bother with them. And so then if you can't make it to the job interview, well, what about the education? Maybe you weren't accepted to the best colleges sometimes and things like that. So there's just, you know, levels and levels and levels to it that people don't understand. And I think this movement has been able to expose all of those things. And I will say, I know one of the president's advisors said the other day he doesn't think that there's systemic racism in the US and that is incorrect. That was a very hurtful statement that was made. But there's plenty of videos and things going around to kind of educate you. And I've been educating myself too, on the hurdles that you come across.

I think this is what I appreciate about this conversation, is I feel like we're always called to give each other grace.

Yes.

You know, to ask questions, to learn and then to give grace. And I mean in both ways. Like, you're hearing from the super white Midwestern girl that doesn't know any of these things. You know, to being educated and being able to have some, you know, all these people watching our conversation right now, I just think that's beautiful and that that is step number one. I want to ask you these questions because I feel like there. There may be this underlying question from some of our viewers. And the first one is some of our were looted during some of this process. And so I think, like, there's questions in our minds of, like, how do we support those stores and show sympathy, like, God dang, that your insurance isn't covering that. That sucks. How do we support them but also understand, like, where that looting came from and what's looting and protesting. Like, talk to me about your thoughts on that. How do we support those stores that are hurting because of what has happened to them?

Right. I do want to say that the looting is not connected to the silent protests and the overall Black Lives Matter movement. Whenever there's something revolutionary going on There are always going to be bad apples that sneak in to take advantage of the situation. And that's what the looting is. And it's been said on the news too as well that it's not even people who live in the city. A lot of times it's people who come from outside, even out of the state, just to take advantage of what's going on. And that's wrong. But we, you know, there's been black businesses that have been looted. So I want to put that into perspective too. It's not like someone, you know, was like, I'm going to target this business because it's a white owned business. There's been black businesses that have been destroyed as well. Well, and I feel for you and you know, that's not what we want to happen for you. And it's just that unfortunately things like this happen when there's again a worldwide revolution going on there, casualties that happen because of it. And it's just, it's really unfortunate. But I think if people also. These stories, right. Think of it this way. You know, I've seen the black, the black stores that have gotten looted to start GoFundMe pages. People want to support you. Like, you know, it's not like people are saying, oh, oh, well, it happened. It's a casualty. No, but ask for help. You know, tell if, if I knew of a store that was owned by a white person or a black person or any person that was looted and you needed help, I would, I would donate, I would help. Because, you know, if that's what you stand for, if you are aligned with the Black Lives Matter, cause in general, we will support you. We support people who support us. And you know, that's, that's really all I can say. It's, it's unfortunate and I feel terrible for you, but yeah, some, some things are out of our control. Honestly, when things like this happen.

I shared a quote on my personal social media a couple, two weeks ago, maybe now. And it was something along the lines of, just because you support one thing doesn't mean you're against the other. And I kind of applied to. And as I wrote it, my heart was in the place of my gosh, these are our, these are our people, our members, our boutique owners. It does not matter what color they are. Their stores were damaged and that's what we're here to protect. At the same time, these black lives do matter. And, and then to add third into it is we have lots of police families inside the boutique. We have police in our Own in my own family, my nephew. So talk to me about that, too. Like, again, we've already talked about there's bad apples in every bunch. But how do we also support, you know, police during this time? Police families that are in. In business?

Yeah. I think, you know, more than ever what has been inspiring during this time is to see the silent protests going on or the protests going on around the world and then seeing the police officers who are there. You know, yes, they have been getting spit out and thrown things out, and that's terrible. But I've seen them kneel with the protesters. Just seeing that is just so powerful and so emotional. And that's what this is about, is bringing people together and to bring about change. And, you know, unfortunately, throughout the protest, there has still been police brutality going on, which has fueled things. And that's. Yeah. And it's. I will also say it's not just white police officers. The, you know, it's been black police officers, too, who have injected force where it wasn't necessary during this time. So it's just, you know, I understand, again, I'm very good at seeing both sides and understanding both sides. You know, it's all about us finding a solution to these problems. And, you know, like you said, there's good cops, there's bad cops. We need to seek leadership from the police as well. And then more people speaking out and saying what their stance is and helping to get those bad cops out of the ranks. Or, you know, we want to just see more leadership from the police to bring about change for us. But I understand, I mean, I don't. I don't want to watch TV and see things being happening to the police and thrown at them and things like that. But again, in this movement, with everything going on, you have to just look at both sides. And I hope that somehow we can all come together to create the reform that we need so that the police are safe and protected and understand the needs of their citizens. And the other way around, we all just need to come together and understand each other and create plans to move forward.

Yeah, absolutely. I look at it as like there's this freight train moving forward. Right. And on both sides of it, there's. There's outliers on both sides and there's, you know, we even. You And I've talked about this a little bit, even like on social media and some of the, like, extreme. On both sides. Like bullying that happens. Yes. And business owners or influencers. I've seen some influencers really take some words in the Last couple weeks. And that happens on both sides. So how do we, like, how do we shield ourselves to. I don't say look past it, but maybe that is what I'm looking for. So that we can unite in the center and like, not add fuel to either fire here, but continue to move forward here together. Like, again, enlightened love like we were talking about.

Yeah, I think, again, making sure that when you, when you do say something, that it comes from a place of authenticity and not a divisive place. Like, yes, people are going to not agree with you. People are going to say nasty things. The world we live in, unfortunately. But again, it's that whole white and black, literally, conversation. Right. But it's black and it's white. Like, there's no gray area. You're either for it or against it. So when you're speaking and you're for it, the negative people or the negative comments from people who are against it are going to come. But you cannot let that bother you because I am fine with anyone who's not not for it commenting and then leaving my life or unfollowing me or getting blocked. That's fine because that's not what I stand for. Those aren't, you know, those aren't the values. We don't share the same value system. So you just have to kind of have tunnel vision sometimes and keep it moving. And I have plenty of that. But even I want to say, like, Jeff Bezos, I don't follow him, but somehow I came across his Instagram and he posted pictures of the emails that he's been getting from people because they had a Black Lives Matter banner on Amazon. I don't know if it's still there, but I know last last week it was the nastiness of the emails that he's gotten. I think that's why he's posting it, so you can see just like the amount of hatred. It's Amazon. It's a retailer. Right. And it's bigger than what people think. I think the best way to explain it is that brands, retailers are being humanized now. A month ago, or, you know, earlier this year, we wouldn't expect an ice cream shop to talk about Black Lives Matter. And that's what comments will say. You sell ice cream. We don't care about your political, like, your views, whether political, you know, racial, social justice. Like, we don't care. Just sell me ice cream. That's not the case anymore. First, it started with supply chain transparency. Who's, you know, are your workers being paid? Are Livable wages, you know, how are you? What's your sustainability focus? Things like that. That was the first. Now it's deeper. It's like, okay, well, what are your values on racial equality? What does your leadership team look like? What are your brains? Like, who are the founders of these brands that you carry? So it's just going to keep getting deeper from here. Everyone, like we're not America is no longer being shallow. I think it's a great way to put it. You just unfortunately have to take the beating that comes with being yourself, being happy and showing who you are and what you're about. And honestly, I mean, we as black people have been getting that beating every day. So now I think it's showing other people the type of hatred that we get on a regular basis.

Yeah.

And it's unfortunate and obviously I don't want anybody to go through the stuff I've been through, but you just have to kind of toughen up a little bit. Tunnel vision. Say your piece, say where you stand and know that the people who align with that will be the ones that are going to support you and get you through this and move forward together.

I love that. Besides being human and giving your stance on what you believe. I want to talk about how we can even take it a step further than that because it's not just like a one time effort, it's an ongoing effort. But I want to ask you this question first. I'm going to go back to my Midwestern hat. Girls like me who have zero diversity in their hometown and they're like, gosh, I would love to make more efforts, but I don't. I can't have any diverse models because there are none. What do we do in those situations? Like, how can those brands be supportive even though it may not be their customer base and they may not have opportunity to show diversity or even in the people that they hire.

And I think that's a great thing to bring up because that's not thought about right in this conversation. But sometimes it's not that you're being intentionally that way or not showing diversity intentionally. There's actually no diversity where you live. And again, that's what a lot of America is like. It's not uncommon.

You even said earlier that you were looking at the boutique hubs staff and this is a year or two ago and now our staff is more diverse. But it was not diverse because we started a group of people in Wisconsin again.

Right, North Dakota, Right. Exactly. I think, and I'm glad you, I'm really Glad you said that. Because I've been reaching out to different brands who I don't see diversity on their social feeds and maybe it's the same situation, but I think it's about finding that connector, AKA me or somebody like me. Because yes, it might be a little bit. It is going to be more of an effort. I'm not going to lie to you, it will be. But we can find black influencers or people of color influencers.

Right.

That you can work with to send them your clothing and then those can be that face for you, that representation, because in your heart that's what you're about. Right. So even if it's not in your local community, you have an online store. I assume most of you do. So your online customers come from everywhere, all across the US So working with influencers of color is a start and I think probably your best bet because then you're getting promotion and you're also getting that diversity representation that you're looking for. And I mean as far as your staff and your store, if there's not diversity there, you can't help that part. But you know, even having pictures, if you have pictures inside of your store of models and things like that, making sure that those pictures, pictures show diversity. And in your email campaigns still, because again, your online customers are diverse, it just might be that the people in person are not. Mm.

So would you say like, would you go as far as even, like, what if I can't hire a model that's diverse at all? So even for my online customers, like, let me paint a picture. I lived in a town that was about 80 miles from a Walmart or a stoplight. Right. I'm talking like nowhere, a wonderful place, but I'm not knocking it. So sometimes like I couldn't even send out an email back then if I wanted to with diversity. Unless it was, maybe it was a stock photo or you know that. But I love your suggestion of reaching out to influencers or even if, you know, I'm going to put this challenge out there to our community of we now. Like there's no excuse now to not know a black owned business owner in whether it's in the boutique hub or out like now the opportunity is there. We've been publishing blog posts about businesses follow. And maybe it's a boutique to boutique collaboration. That happened.

That's true too. Yeah, that's true. And if you, if you carry black owned brands in your store, that's a, that's the way right there.

Yeah.

Because it could be that these Brands. I'm sure they already have lifestyle photos with people of color and their products. So then I think, yes, there you go. Work with black owned brands or people of color owned brands and ask them, you know, I'd love to feature some of your lifestyle photography on my Instagram feed, you know, on my website and so forth. And actually that's. I'm so glad you brought that up. That's a way right there. And then you're supporting the community with your dollars by purchasing wholesale and also getting that representation that you want and that you need with their imagery. So it's a great partnership.

I like that. And that would be more like cultural appropriation, like kind of going down that path.

Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, there you go. They're right there. It's like you. And then again, now you have someone who is a part of that community to be an ally for and vice versa.

Right.

So going back, you know, if you have an email that you want to make sure that sounds right, send it to your brand partner.

Oh, my goodness. Gosh. I feel like everyone who's watching, there's probably a thousand other questions I could ask and I. We're probably gonna miss something, but is there anything else you can think of that we could share that we haven't already? Like, what else can we do?

I think again, just having that conversation, having these conversations, guys. And again, I know a lot of black people in the community are just tired. We're tired. I'm tired too, but I don't care. I'm going to keep having these conversations because they're so. It's so important. And we were talking before this. I grew up in an all white area, so my experience is different than the next person, is different than yours. And so I have plenty of stories as well. But we don't know what each other has experienced or what we go through on a daily basis until we talk about it, until we share. And I want to improve and be a better ally for my community to yours. Vice versa. We have to talk. We have to be open. Yes. It's uncomfortable. You know, it might be uncomfortable to learn about my hair, for example, and how it takes me three hours to wash it, blow dry it, and straighten it. Right. And I'm sure your community has, like, funny little isms and things that, you know, we could share. You know, what?

Sunburns all day long.

Yeah.

Right.

So.

But that's.

That's part of life. That's the beauty of life, guys. Like, I have things to bring to the table. Ashley has things to bring to the table. Everyone on earth does. And it's beautiful. Culture is beautiful. That's what America actually is. People like. It's culture. Different cultures coming together to create what this country is. So just do something uncomfortable today. I'll challenge you all, and if it's talking to me, I'll take it. But do something uncomfortable and say, be honest. You know, I don't know any black people. Can you please, like, I want to talk. I want to open up this line of communication. I want to learn about you, your struggles, your happies, your lows, your whatever. I want to learn and open. Just start a conversation. And same thing for my community, Black people. If you don't know any white people, start that conversation today. I don't know any white people. I want to. Let's go. Let's get to know each other. Like, if it has to be that corny, let it be that corny. But we have to start talking and relating and loving each other.

I love that. I love it. I had a conversation this morning with Dana Spinola, the owner of the fabric, which is a huge change.

Oh, yes.

And she said, Ashley said, I just want to tell you the best thing that I've done this since this whole thing. And she has a black daughter that they had adopted. And she said, I get stereotyped for being the blonde white woman. She said, but we have had a conversation, an open zoom call where we invited all of our people of color to join us. And she said, I just opened my heart and said, look, I don't. I don't know these things help me understand how can we do better. And she said, ashley, that's the best thing I've ever done for my business. It was so insightful. She said I could go on for days about how good it was. And she said, I just want your community to know that. So for those of you who have heard from Dana on our podcast, I want to just kind of share that tip with everyone. And it goes back to exactly what you're saying, Deanna, about just asking the question, just finding out who's in your community and how can you. How can you have that conversation? Yeah. At the same time, I want to just say again to our own community at the Boutique Hub that has. Listen to my questions now. I want to thank you, and maybe you're in the community and we haven't had this conversation yet. And you are a black owned business owner. And I just want to thank you for sticking with us as we continue to Learn and evolve. Because we've got only up to go from here, right?

Yes, for sure.

All right. Any parting thoughts?

Thank you for having me. Obviously. And it's people like you who are willing to have these type of conversations using the platform that you have that is so, so important. Tearing up for some weird reason. Sorry. But it's just so important. And every. I've been doing what I've been doing when I get these type of newsletters and emails that are like, you know, I don't know if this will count, but. And then they start writing about the Black Lives Matter movement or, you know, I don't really know if this will make a difference, but I make it a point to respond and say, don't ever say that again. I'm a black woman. I read what you had to say and I appreciate it. And everything that you say, every little thing that you do, every dollar that you contribute, every time you go and protest alongside everyone else in the movement, it matters that one conversation that you might have with black woman today, it matters. It helps. One person. Helping one person could be the catalyst to help 5,000 people. You just never know. So just take that first step and have that hard conversation and it will change your life.

I promise, man. Thank you. Deanna, thank you so much for being a guest. Thank you. I'm sure you'll get a flood of messages and appreciation and love because this is beautiful. Thank you for being the change and being a leader for this entire movement and for our community as well.

Value you. Thank you.

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