#310: Ecommerce Marketing Strategies for Small Businesses

Hey, welcome back. It's episode number 310 with Jessica Totilo Coster and for you gals that are doing online businesses e commerce, all the things, today is a day to take notes. We are going to dig deep into understanding your data so you know where to put energy in your business. We're going to be clear and clever when it comes to integrating all the SEO into our websites. We're going to talk about quick e commerce wins and and the apps that you could be using to increase your performance, increasing upsells and cross sells and email marketing and all the things that go into new customer acquisition and increasing sales to existing customers. Take some notes. I can't wait for you to meet my friend Jessica Totilo Coster today on episode 310. Let's go. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works. From mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat. Hey guys, I just want to say thank you so much for listening to this episode and to the podcast as a whole. I tell you, it is so refreshing to hear your reviews, your takeaways, your feedback. After subscribing and leaving a review on this podcast, please take a second to subscribe and leave a review if you haven't already. Or take it a step further and message me at ajalderson or the Boutique Hub on Instagram. I love to hear your feedback and what you're putting into action. After you listen to each and every episode, I want to give a quick shout out to the Governor's Wife Boutique who left this review on itunes for us. And it means a ton to hear your feedback like this you guys. The Governor's Wife Boutique said. Finally I found a podcast that actually gives real advice from real boutique owners. I love that these aren't just blanket motivators, but actual advice. Each podcast is specifically for boutique retailers, so they speak to the heart of how to encourage me and help me with my business. Without this podcast, I would have probably thrown in the towel on my small business, but because of this advice, I've been able to pivot through the hard times. Thank you for encouraging me to stay true to myself and to follow my dreams. The Governor's Wife Boutique thank you so much for that review. I tell you what, that is the fuel for my fire and for our entire team's fire to keep this going. Because you guys and your business are the heart of what we do every single day inside of the boutique hub. And we want to hear from you so we can continue to bring you the advice and inspiration that you need. All right, guys, I know after the roller coaster that we had in 2020, E Commerce has become more important than ever. And just about everyone that we work with inside of the hub has some type of e commerce component to their brand. So today, I'm super pumped because Jessica Totilo Coster is here and we are going to talk e commerce strategy. And you know, I always say this, Jessica. I always tell people inside a retail bootcamp that being an online store or having a component of E commerce in your business, it is not like Kevin Costner in the field of dreams. If you build it, they will not come. That is not how it works. There has to be strategy. So are you ready for this?

Yes. And that is. I don't necessarily use that reference, but I always say, if you build it, they will not come. I say that all the time. Yeah. Do you?

I feel like I'm dating myself. Do I sound old? Because I want to talk about Kevin Costner.

I don't think so.

Handsome. Does that make me feel old?

Like, what is that? I feel like I've reached this new level maybe. I mean, I think he's handsome too, so maybe I'm old, too.

Okay, well, together for sure. All right, well, tell me the backstory because I have a million questions and rabbit holes. I want to go down on all kinds of e commerce tips, but I would love to know, how did this become your forte?

For sure. So it started way back when I used to sleep in my new shoes as a little girl. But fast forward through all of my retail experience and actually owning my own brick and mortar boutique. And really, you know, the way I got into the digital side was I didn't want to get left behind. So when I was going to school for fashion merchandising, like, social media wasn't a thing. You still needed a college address to get on Facebook, Right? There was no Instagram when I had my boutique. Like, Facebook was sort of a thing, but not really. And so it was really important. I just like to learn, and I just sort of immersed myself in that digital side. And there was a company that I was working for in their marketing department for their brick and mortar stores. This is like over the last seven years. And I went into the E comm space with them, right. So I already really knew their business and the customer and the product. And then it was about how do we translate that experience, that in store experience online. And I really just got immersed in it. And I think it's because E commerce is a blend of art and science. And I think retail is too, just in general. And I really thrive in those kind of environments.

I love that I always say that same thing, that, you know, every retailer has the art side of the brain and the science side of the brain, and you do have to have both in E commerce. You certainly have to have both. The branding is critical, but actually understanding the data and how to enhance conversions is critical as well. So let me ask you this. Let's just, let's hit some quick wins for people. So if you're listening and you have an E commerce store, talk to me about what are some of the more common mistakes you see? Or maybe some quick wins. People could look at their own site and go, oh, I could enhance this, this and this to see some real traction in my business.

Okay, amazing. I want to just, I want to set the stage on this really quick. And then I have two things that you can like do in the next 24 hours that will make you money. So one thing to remember, and this is really in every business, but especially in E commerce, is there's really only three ways to make more money in your business, and that's acquiring new customers, bringing your existing customers back more often, or getting them to buy more when they're already shopping. And of course, the easiest way is to just get them to buy more when they're already shopping. So what I want you to do as soon as you finish listening to this episode is go look at what your average order value is right now. So on average, how much are people spending per transaction? And then I want you to look at your free shipping threshold. If your free shipping threshold is at or below your aov, I want you to bump it up a few dollars because people will add more to their cart just to get free shipping.

I love that. I love that number one has to, especially this day and age when shipping expenses are changing so much. But consumer buying habits are changing so much online.

Yes, perfect. Look at your aod.

What's your next quick tip?

The next one is to add a cross sell app. And this is not just like, oh, recommended products on your product page. That's a very passive way to sell. No, we want to Think about what you would do in a brick and mortar store, right? If they are shopping for jeans, you're going to offer them a top. If they're buying a top, you're probably going to offer them a necklace or jewelry, a scarf, something like that. And you're going to actively show that to them. You're going to talk about it while they're in the fitting room or at the register, depending upon what you're selling them. And so you want to recreate this on your website. Website as well. And the best way to do that is with a cross sell app that will actually pop up when they add the first item to their cart. And I know we hate pop ups and we don't want to use them, but they work. So I would. Sometimes we just have to like get over our own issues because it does actually work for the business. And then the other way you can implement this, and it kind of depends on, you know, your business and your product. But you can also do a cross sell. After checkout, there's an app called One Click Upsell by Zipify that you can do this really easily with because at that point they've already put in their credit card information, like they're already committed to buying from you. And so that's going to convert really well. And just one little tip about this is whatever item you're cross selling, you want it to be about 15 to 25% of the retail price of the initial product they bought. So if they're buying a, you know, hundred dollar pair of jeans, maybe you want to try and sell them a 30 or $35 top because you don't want to ask them to double what they were expecting to spend, if that makes sense.

That's really good advice right there. I do like that. So you mentioned Zipify. Zipify is actually one of my favorite app creators. I'm a big Ezra Firestone fan. Are you doing most of your work with your clients on Shopify?

Yes. Yes.

Okay, gotcha. All right. Do you have a tip number three?

So, yes. So these are the things that you can like do really quickly. And the next one is about email marketing. And I know a lot of us get overwhelmed. We don't know what to say, we don't know what to send. We overthink it, right? And so sometimes we send nothing. So what I want you to do is go back in your email archive and find an email that performed really well. And when you're looking at the performance, you know, open and click matters, but revenue matters too. So you kind of want to look at all three of those and then I want you to resend it to anyone who didn't open it the first time. Right. You use a new subject line for that and to any new subscribers who have joined your list and never saw that email. Because if it generated revenue for you the first time, it's likely going to generate revenue for you the second time.

Ooh, I love that.

Perfect.

Do you have others other quick tips or.

Those are my three favorite ones for what you can do like right now because that's, you know, that low hanging fruit of getting them to buy more when they're already shopping or bringing them back. And that's where that email marketing comes in.

I love that. Such good tips. So let's talk specifically more about email marketing because I know that's something you're passionate about and I feel like one of the reasons we all get into E commerce is because you want to make money while you sleep, right? So automation involved in your life. Talk to me about some of the most important email automations that you see driving traffic through E commerce.

So the most important ones of course are your abandonment emails. So your abandoned checkout. If you're on Shopify, right, it's after they initiate the checkout. If you're using a tool like Klaviyo, which is my favorite email marketing platform, you can also do a browse abandonment. So this will trigger to someone who's already on your list, right? You have to have their email, but before they even add a product to the cart, just when they go and view something which is really cool and a very big money driver. And a lot of the time like we'll talk about the abandoned cart because this is usually like a series and people ask, oh, do I need to put a discount in here? And the truth is no you don't. Because most of the time people just get distracted, right? Their phone went off, they got an Instagram notification, their kid is pulling at their leg and they really did just get distracted. So just that simple nudge, that simple reminder like, hey, you left these things behind. That's where you're going to see the biggest conversion in your abandoned cart emails or your browse abandonment emails. And what you can do is, you know, you can always split that abandoned cart journey, for instance. So a lot of times, especially if you're newer and maybe you don't have the brand recognition quite yet and you're really trying to warm up your audience's, you can split it and say if this person has never purchased from me before, then maybe you send them a little bit of a discount just to lessen the risk of buying from you. If that's something that you're doing in your business.

I love that. Perfect. So we've got browse abandonment. How do you like to treat new customers? I'm not new customers, but rather new subscribers. I, you know, I feel like there's such an emphasis that we have to put on not just growing social media subscribers, but email subscribers. So we own them for a lifetime. How do you treat someone who's new to your list?

Fantastic question. And yes, I agree with you. Your email list is the only thing that you own. So make sure you're always working on growing it. You really need to. I like to think about, I always go back to the brick and mortar piece, right. Because that is my background and I'm always thinking how to translate that online. So if someone were to, you know, walk into your store, you're not just going to go and like shove three products in front of them and say like, hey, do you want to buy this? Right. Like you're going to say hello, you're going to start a conversation with them, you're probably going to compliment them on their shoes or you're going to talk about the weather. You're going to find out a little bit more about them, tell them a little bit more about you. So if you come at it from that perspective, I find my clients, it's so much easier for them to sit down and create the content. Right. But for a general welcome flow, if you are giving out a discount, which you don't have to do, but if you do that first email, I really just focus on delivering that discount and trying to get the sale. Because they've told you that's what they want, right? That was them raising their hand, saying I'm ready to buy, and then going into talking about, you know, you, the business, why you do it and what's in it for them. So one of the things I think small businesses kind of discount is the power that their story and their face has to growing that business. And the welcome series is where I will usually talk about that because you know when you, you're creating that relationship with them, right? Sales are always about relationships and that's no different on the web. It's just a different way that we're communicating with them.

Do you feel like in those emails, and I'll even add in on the homepage of their website that the use of video is really helping translate that message in a lot, I don't know, cleaner way today or what's your opinions on the use of video in those areas?

Yeah, for sure. So video is amazing and you are going to grow that know like and trust factor so much faster with video than anything else. Right. Whether it's in marketing or on your website, there's so much more that you can translate through a video than necessarily through the written word. When it comes to video in email, most email providers don't really. You can't like support video in an email. Right. So you're really just kind of putting a thumbnail in there and they it opens up a new video window. So I would use that sparingly in email only because it's taking them out of the email experience and it's like more clicks before they can get to your website, if that makes sense. But if you have a video that you can link them to on your website versus something that's hosted on YouTube for example, that would be amazing. Yeah. And then you have them on your website when it comes to email too. Don't think about getting the sale, think about getting the click. How do you get them to click through to your website and what is that call to action?

I love that. When you think about increasing clicks and even just like average open rates and click through rates. Do you have any quick tips on how to increase those numbers?

Yeah, for sure. So one, I find most of us overthink this and we can very often come off like really formal in email for some reason when people sit down to write emails, like if they've had a corporate background or something like that. Right. They get like really formal. So loosen up a little bit and have a little bit of fun with it. You know, if your brand is funny and witty, then be funny and witty in those call to actions. Right. So it doesn't always have to be like shop now maybe it is, you know, get great skin or whatever it is that you sell. Right. So just open up and be fun and speak in the language that you would speak to them if you were in person.

That's. That really hits home going back to again how that translates even just from email to your website, whether that's video or just in your copy and just building that personal relationship with them. Do you feel like there's ways on the homepage of your website because that's that first interaction that it becomes so important to get personal like that and let them know who you are? You know, I just will say this. I think there's Been so many new boutiques in the last, you know, two to three years and sometimes they start to look like.

So how can you.

Your homepage and that personal relationship to really set yourself apart.

Yeah, for sure. And, you know, one of the most visited pages on anyone's website is the about page. Because they do want to know, you know, who is this company that they're buying from and really understand that, you know, who are they supporting, who are they giving their hard earned money to? So I think there's two things on your homepage that you can do. And one of those is if, you know, if you are the face of your brand, which, you know, I always recommend that you are if you're comfortable with it. But we understand that, you know, not everyone wants to do that and that's fine, fine. But you still want to have a personality behind your brand. But, you know, lead them to the about page with a picture of you if you're comfortable with it. A little bit of blurb about what you do and why you do it. Because look, I think about when I had my boutique, you know, yeah, it was because I wanted a business, but it was also because I loved clothes and I loved the way it made me feel when I put them on. And I loved the way my clients, my customers felt when I found them, like that perfect pair of jeans and they really liked, you know, how their butt looked in it. Right. It's that emotion behind why people buy is what we want to touch on. And so I would put a little blurb like that to get them to kind of click through that about page because that's going to make someone say, yeah, you know, like, she gets me. I want to learn more about her. And then also a text blurb. I think we undervalue text on our website, but it's really good for SEO as well. But a text blurb about your brand and your boutique, what makes you special? Why do people want to shop with you? If you have extended sizes, for instance, that people can't get anywhere else, call that out because that's a real pain point that people deal with. If you focus on really curating your collection or you're bringing in new items every single week, or maybe you only buy from, you know, organic cotton or whatever that value prop is, that unique proposition is put that front and center on your homepage and that's what's really makes you different from everyone else.

Yeah, absolutely. So as you personalize those things on your about page, but also on your homepage, do you feel like there's an ideal homepage layout that you should follow. Like, are there certain elements that you must have or can't live without?

Yes. In that I think simple is better. Right. So a lot of us get caught up in the design piece of the website and we're trying to get it pixel perfect. It'll never be perfect. You'll never be 100% happy with it. And sometimes we can make it like too fancy. But if you look at the majority of the websites that are out there, e commerce sites, they all look pretty similar, right? And the customer is used to seeing that. So one, I would say keep it more traditional because people know where to look for stuff, right? We read left to right. They know to look for the nav menu at the top, they know to look for the mobile menu and this little hamburger, you know, those three lines, they know that. And then in terms of that first image that they see, whether it's a slider or a static image and you know, jury is still out on which one of those converts better is you want to make sure that it doesn't take up the entire visible screen. So anything that is visible on a website before the user has to scroll is called above the fold. So you want to make sure that you've got important information above the fold. And this way, your second section, right, that goes right under that main image that the user can maybe still see the text heading of that, right? Because it's just that little signal that lets them know, hey, there's more content here. And whether it depends a little bit on the, the breadth of your product assortment, right? Whether you want to maybe have your best selling specific products or you might want to just do your top collections.

Perfect. Are there other pages you feel like as you get, you know, your, you've got new arrivals, you've got top collections, you've got your about section, you've got some kind of call to action as I think about even scrolling down to the footer. And the importance of having like a FAQ page or some of these other more detailed pages. Do you think there's things that are often left off that should be included?

Oh, yes. So definitely an FAQ page, Definitely a shipping returns exchanges page. And here's one quick note about that is most people aren't going to actually read them, right? You're still going to get customer service inquiries asking you questions that are already on those pages. But if you don't have them, it becomes that you lose the trust. Right. Because the consumer is so used to Seeing, seeing it just in the footer. So you want to have it there. And then also a privacy policy. That's kind of the legal part of it that you need to have a privacy policy as well. And then depending on your company a little bit. So the boutique I had, right. I sold a lot of name brand things and so if that were my company, I would probably have a few featured brands page something like that so that they can quickly find what they're looking for. And you know, in the beginning it doesn't have to be super fancy. When you're on Shopify, for instance, a lot of those themes come with like a collection page that you can create. Right. So it's like, you know, three by three and you've got the different squares of the different collections. So maybe you are sending them to those specific brands or however it is that your product assortment is set up. And that's just to help the customer find what they're looking for faster. Just like you would in a store, right. You're going to ask them what they're shopping for so that you can get it to them quicker.

Yeah, it's just like a cya, right?

You don't.

But it better be there when it's necessary.

Yes, for sure.

What about a product page? There's so many standard product pages that come with templates anymore, but certainly there's got to be some details into what makes a product page convert for sure.

And it depends a little bit. I'm going to say that a lot because it does. A lot of this stuff depends on your particular product. But let's you know, if you have a clothing boutique and you've got a ton of different items, some things to think about, how do you shop? Right. So some of the things that I look for, I'm very particular about the fabric content of the clothing that I wear. Right. Like I try to avoid polyester because it makes me sweat. Right. So I'm always kind of looking for that fiber content. I also want to have a good sense of how it fits. So having easy access to a size chart as well is really important when you're, you know, selling clothing and then you want to have the important information again above the fold, if you can. And when I go to do a product page, you have to think of different customers, shop and read differently. So you have some people who are going to actually read that paragraph content that you create and you've got other people who are just going to skim and they're looking for bullet points. So you Want to have both of them. And when you're writing that content, remember that people buy with emotion and justify with logic. Right. So you know saying, hey, this cute floral print top. Okay, great. But like, what's in it for the customer? And maybe that is you're going to talk about how it's going to flatter this particular body shape or it's going to be really great on this coloring. It's going to look super cute with this other item, just like you would do in person with someone. And I would focus more on the communication and the messaging than any of the other little technical things. But you do also need great product photos, especially with clothing. Absolutely.

Yeah. You have to have both the branding and the function for it to convert at all.

Yeah.

When you're really digging into is this working? Is this not working? Certainly you've got to be great with understanding Google, Google Analytics and data. Are there certain reports that you suggest people have a weekly date with to really see what's working, what's converting, why is it converting and why is it not converting?

Yes, totally. So I, I think you should have a Monday meeting with your numbers every week. And it doesn't necessarily have to be you that's kind of, you know, taking the data and putting it onto a spreadsheet. I think it should be in the beginning so you can get comfortable with it and then you can kind of pass it off to someone else who works for you. But I think you should be looking at your numbers every week and you want to look at things like your traffic and, and your actual website conversion. You want to look at how your different marketing channels are contributing to your business. So is email marketing contributing 20%? Are Facebook ads contributing 15%? Get a handle on that. And while you're looking at it every week, I don't want you to take action on it every week. Right. Because then you're just constantly being reactive and you kind of just like a hamster on a wheel. So I would say do it for, you know, four, six weeks to start and get to see some patterns because you know, there's going to be ebbs and flows naturally. And at that point then you can start digging in a little bit more. And so I have two reports that I really love in Google Analytics, and one of those is the assisted conversion report. And just to explain a little bit about how Google Analytics tracks data. So Google Analytics goes by last click attribution, which means what was the last action the customer took before they actually converted? So I'll give you an example, if you have a Facebook ad that brings someone to your website and then they sign up for your email, they get an email, they click the email, go to your website, and then they buy, then Google Analytics is going to give the credit to the email, not the Facebook ad. So when you go into the assisted conversion report, it's going to show you how all of your marketing channels contributed to your business. So while you may not see a lot of revenue attributed to Instagram, for example, you might see that it assists in almost every conversion you've ever had. So while it feels like it's not driving revenue, it may still be a really important part of your business. That's.

That'S smart. What other reports do you run in Google Analytics?

My other favorite report is called the Shopping Behavior Report. And this is like if you're in Google Analytics is under Conversions E Commerce. And basically what this is doing is showing you each step in the journey. So this is how many people hit your website, and then this is how many people started shopping. This is how many people actually added a product to their cart. So if you're tracking this and you can see, okay, on average, right, 13% of the people who visit a product page actually hit the add to cart button. So you have that place that you can start with. You've got that baseline and now you can go in and say, okay, well, what happens if I update my photos? Or, or what happens when I update the copy on my website? Or, hey, you know what, I'm going to start collecting reviews and adding those to my product pages. Now, you don't want to change all these things at once, right? You want to do them one at a time. But when you have that baseline now, you can start making little adjustments and see if you can get some lift there.

Mm, that's perfect. I mean, only a track number grows, right? So we've gotta look and iterate. And I think sometimes it's like out of sight, out of mind, isn't it? You know, you.

Yes.

In place and then you kind of run away from them thinking it's all good to go.

Yes, for sure. And it's, you know, you can, you can really go down a rabbit hole with data. So I, I don't want you to do that either. But I think it's really understanding what are the important numbers and where you can put your energy to have the biggest impact. So, for instance, I speak with a lot of people who come to me and they say, oh, you know, I really need to increase my website conversion. Well, how do you know that? Because the average E Comm conversion is only 1 to 3%. So if you're at the top end of that or you're higher than that, your conversion's fine. And no, that's not actually what you have to put your energy into. Right. You probably just need to drive more traffic. That's usually what I see in smaller businesses. So really understanding that data and let it drive your decision making and where you put the energy in your business.

So, so, so important. Do you feel like in Google Analytics and this is kind of going down the SEO rabbit hole, but you also have to know how are people landing on your site so you know what's working and why it's working or not. But then where are people coming from? Can you give a few short SEO pointers that might help?

Yes. So one thing is if SEO is going to be a focus for you, you also want to install Google Search Console. It's also a free tool from Google. It just has a little code snippet that you put on your website. And what that does is it tells you where in the search results you are showing up for certain keywords. And then this way you can, when you look at that and if, let's say, okay, your top selling product or your top selling category collection, if you're, you know, a boutique where you're actually changing out your products all the time, you want to really focus at the collection level. But if, you know, dresses, people are always finding you for dresses, that's kind of your number one seller. But like you're on page four of Google, for example, you know that you can focus on building that up specifically and work on ranking for that versus trying to go for the term that you're like on page 50 for. Right. Because that's going to get you a quicker win. And when you're approaching SEO, a couple things is you always want to be clear on over clever. And this is just with the copy on your website, the names of your products, the descriptions that you're writing. Like, save all that witty chat for social media. Because if Google can't understand what you're saying, it's not going to be able to rank you for anything. So clear over clever is really important there. And make sure that you're like, so in Shopify, if you scroll down to the bottom right, you've got that SEO section, you've got your meta title and your meta description. Not only is that for Google, but it's also all the customer the searcher sees in Google search results. Right. So you want that to be written in a way that entices them to click through. And ultimately, at the end of the day, Google's number one goal is to get their searcher to the best result for them. So if you come at your content, whether it's your product titles, your product descriptions, the blog posts that you create, if you come at it with the sense of how do I answer this person's query in the best way possible and write for the user, you will win. It takes time, but you will win. And you can compete with the big guys on SEO. So don't be afraid of that.

I think that's so true. I think SEO feels like a foreign language to so many people. But really it's just, it's simple, clear, you know, vocabulary and actions taken over a period of time with some focus. Right. And there is, there's opportunity to rank especially. I feel like this is really overlooked today. But just even Google Local search, when's the last time you googled yourself to see where you were showing up on local search or within Google Maps or what your reviews were and just making sure that information's correct? You know, there's kind of these two sides of SEO, right? Really playing one another.

Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. And if you are, you know, if you have a brick and mortar, like you need to be on Google My Business, you want to claim that listing. Same thing with Yelp, like claim all of those listings so you can really manage the content that is on them because they're really powerful. And especially Google My Business, if someone is searching, you know, for dresses near me or a boutique near me, like they're going to prioritize their own stuff. Right. So that Google My Business shows up on that right hand side and it's, it takes up a lot of real estate. Yeah, absolutely.

That's perfect. Well, Jessica, tell me this. Out of all the retailers that you have worked with, what do you feel like the most successful ones have in common?

They are scrappy and willing to do the work and willing to learn and realize that having a product based business, whether you're a brick and mortar or you're online, like, this is not for the faint of heart. Right. This is not a get rich quick kind of thing. You do it because you really love it and you're super passionate about it. And that is the thread that I've seen across everyone. And whether you created your own product or you're just selling other people's products, products, it's just because you're really passionate about solving those problems for the customer and you know, surprising and delighting them and just bringing some little joy into their life.

I love that. Well, Jessica, is there anything else that you feel like? If anyone is listening today and they have taken a page of notes, which I know that they have, is there anything else you want listeners to know to go home and implement right now that you think is going to help them in their business?

For sure, email marketing definitely go through your automations and you know, look at how they're performing. If you see for instance that your open rates on your welcome are below 30%, you might want to work on that subject line. If you see that your click rates are below 2 to 4%, you want to work on those calls to action in your emails. Because email is the backbone of everything else that you're doing online. Whether you're doing paid ads, organic, social, SEO, all of that that comes to your website. People are not necessarily ready to buy right away. Right? And so that email automation is there to support you and catch the sale for you. So let that be a focus versus that thing that sits on the back burner like, yeah, I'll get to it.

So, so true. Don't put all your eggs in the social media basket.

Yes.

How can anyone listening today find you on social for sure.

So you can find me at E Commerce Badassery. B A D A S S E R Y It's a mouthful on all the channels. That's the name of my website as well and my podcast.

I love it. Jessica, thanks so much again for these valuable tips. This has been super, super helpful.

Thanks so much for having me. Ashley.

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Sam.