#36 6 Steps to the Perfect Purchase, with Bob Negan, Founder of WhizBang! Retail

Hey guys, it's time for episode number 36 with one of the most reputable retail consultants around. Get ready to meet my friend Bob Nagin with Whiz Bang training. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works from mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts, strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat. Hey guys, if you've ever wondered about that process for completing a perfect purchase in your storefront, today you are going to have an answer and a ton of notes to go with it. You guys, I'm so excited today to be joined by Bob Nagin, who is the founder with his wife Susan, of Whiz Bang training. Now, Whiz Bang is a leader in retail consulting. Bob and Susan have literally traveled the world sharing their experience as retail owners of kite store of a kite store in Michigan and also their experience of leading some very well known and very successful retailers of all shapes and sizes and types of from all over the world. Today Bob's going to join us to give us his insight on what's working in retail today. How to hire team, how to train your staff, how to work through that process of a perfect purchase, and also how to get ready for the holidays. Bob definitely has a process and some insight on just about everything in this industry. So this is a great conversation. I hope you come ready to take some notes and to be inspired so that you are ready to tackle the holiday season. Enjoy this one, you guys.

All right, guys, welcome back to the podcast this week. We have a guest today that I know you're going to find so much value from because today Bob Nagin of Whiz Bang training is with me and he's got to be one of the most, if not the most well known retail speakers in the U.S. someone who's been around for years and I know is going to bring so much value and insight to the conversation today. So, Bob, welcome to the podcast.

Well, thank you, Ashley. I am thrilled and honored to be here.

Oh man, I know you and I were talking before we started recording that we could probably get into the weeds with all kinds of to do's and strategies for retailers. So we should probably get right into this, huh?

That sounds great. And you know what, if we get too far into the weeds. We can always do another one sometime.

I like it. I like it. Well, there's so much to talk about. But before we get into that, I want to start just by hearing more of your backstory. I've known you for a couple of years now. I think we've gotten to know each other and work together a little bit, and it's pretty amazing what you've built, the community that you have and expertise that you have. So can you give us that backstory of how you got to the place?

Yeah, sure. Yeah. So in. In 1981, I was 23 years old. Yes, that does date me. And I had just graduated from college and I had a new hobby. And that hobby was kite flying. I loved everything about kite flying. And so, you know, I didn't want to get a real job. And because I had this passion for kites and I. Because I didn't want to get a real job, I thought I would open a kite store. You know, Ashley, how hard can it be to run a retail store? You know? So I had $2,000 zero business experience. I really had owned. Only owned a couple kites in my life. But, you know, I was young, dumb, and stupid. And I thought, you know, I mean, so I went up to Mackinaw City, Michigan, and I opened one of the world's first kite stores. And of course, I didn't know what I was doing. Of course, the early years were a huge struggle. The first year we were in business, it was a seasonal store, which of course meant. Made it even more difficult to succeed. But that first season in business, we did $17,000. And so. But, you know, I mean, I was willing to work hard. I was will, you know, I mean, I did all of the things that we'll kind of talk about here today. But, you know, through the course of 19 years, and I own that business for 19 years, through the course of that 19 years, I really figured out how to make retail work. And in 1999, by that time, we were a multi store, multi million dollar business. And maybe sometime in this conversation, we can talk about my yo yo experience because, you know, we sold several million dollars worth of yo yo and yo yo accessories. But in 1999, my brother Steve, my youngest brother, who I hired the first year and who I made a junior partner, came to me and said, do you want to sell your part of the business? And by then, you know, I was ready to move on. And what I realized was that so many people needed what I had that my wife Susan and I so I sold the Mackinac Kite company to my brother Steve, who still owns it and runs it successfully. And my wife Susan, who was working for us, who was a department store executive, started Whiz Bang Retail Training. So since 1999, the two of us, and you know, in our colleagues, our company here at Whiz Bang Retail Training, all we do is work with small to mid size independent retailers just like your listeners. And you know, our mission is to, to give you hope and to help you with the skills you need to, you know, to realize those dreams. You know, I know what it's like, have that dream. Do you know, to have the dream of the store that your customers love, that has the amazing team that is making money, has strong cash flow. I know the hope that, I understand that hope. But I also know that there's a lot of things you need to know how to do in order to make that dream a reality. And that's what we do here. We work with independent retailers to give them hope and to help them run more successful business businesses. You know, Ashley, a lot like what you do.

Absolutely. Except with you, when someone tells you to go fly a kite, you're not offended at all by it, right?

Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Oh man.

Well, I want to reflect a little bit more on your time with the kite store because I'm sure there was so many key moments as you went throughout that business of ups and downs, successes and failures that you felt like were really aha. Moments that led you to what you teach today in Whiz Bang. But could you elaborate on, you know, if there was one toughest decision you felt like you had to make in that business? What was that toughest decision that maybe led you to a big breakthrough that helped you get to the other side and the more successful side of that business.

So there were a couple of things, you know, so I don't know if there was. I'm thinking of just a couple of moments in, in particular. But the first one was, and I, you know, all of these moments remember clearly, I mean as in I can feel the emotion. I can put myself in that place because it was that important. And we sold a guy, this was year one or two, so early, early on. And we sold a guy a seven foot skyscrapers rainbow delta. You see, I can still remember the kite. And we didn't have the right string. It's called line, but for your listeners, we didn't have the right string. So we sold him the wrong string. We should have sold him 50 pound line. Instead we sold him 30 pound line. And sure enough, he went out and the line wasn't strong enough. He flew it in winds that were too heavy and it broke the string, broke the line and he came in and he said, hey man, the string broke. I flew it. First time I ever flown, I've ever flown this kite. And the line broke. And I remember walking over to the bin and this was a $35 kite. And $35 at that time was a lot. And taking a kite out of the bag and said, look, that was the wrong line. Let me give you a kite that will fly with the right line. And, you know, so I made it right by him and my brother Steve was watching and I could see it happening in his head as it was happening in my head. And that is this idea of the customer. Making it right for the customer is the right way to do business. And that is always the way that we did business. You know, when we teach retail now, we focus so much with our better clients on lifetime value of a customer. When we talk about return policies, make them generous because it's lifetime value of a customer. So that was sort of a moment where we went, okay, we're going to be intensely customer focused. That making it right for our customer is the most important thing that we can do for the long term growth of, of our business. There's one other one. And so, and this is super important and some of your listeners will hear this and go, dur. And some of them will go, oh, but I didn't pay my withholding taxes for a while. I didn't have any money and I didn't pay my taxes for a while and they weren't sending me letters. So I thought, well, they must have forgotten about, well, Ashley, you know, they didn't forget about me. The Internal Revenue Service didn't forget about me. And so I, you know, I got the letter from the Internal Revenue Service and I had to go into Grand Rapids, Michigan to the Gerald R. Ford Federal Museum, I mean, Federal building, go up to the seventh floor to talk to Mrs. Mrs. Welch, who made an appointment, I mean, made a, put together a payment plan for me. But so when you talk about key moments, the one was be intensely focused. The second one is pay your taxes on time.

So many good truths. Well, let's, let's flip that because I'm sure so many, so many of those aha moments you see reliving on a daily basis through the clients that you work with. So I'd love to hear you know just about the clients that you work with, and I know some of them. When you kind of look at the group as a whole, all the clients you've worked with over the years, are there things that you feel like the most successful, successful retailers you've worked with have in common?

Yes, there are a couple of things. The first and most important thing is this idea of that customer focused. Customer focus. I created a concept, it's an acronym called wwmcw. What would my customer want? And what I find is that when people buy into that, philosophically, when they really start to build their business around that essential question, that great things start to happen, you know, so when you say, what would my customer want? When you ask yourself, what will my store hours be? You don't say, well, am I going to save $3 on. Am I going to talk about payroll percentages? Am I going to talk about how busy it is? No. You ask yourself, what would my customer want? When you think about generous return policies, what would my customer want want? You know, so that whole idea that our best clients are really, really intensely customer focused.

What would my customer want? I love that. That's a great acronym. Easy for them to slap on a bracelet. Most retailers need that.

You know, that's so interesting that you say that because I introduced the concept at one of our, you know, few years ago at our retail success summit, and we made, we made a bunch of the little rubber bracelet know, a couple hundred of them, just, you know, and I didn't know whether the concept was going to go over or not. But I said, hey, if you, if you like this concept and you'd like one of the bracelets, we have some in the back. And I mean, there was a, a rush of people to, to go get them. And then I've heard stories of people since then, retailers who have created really nice ones for their team members to wear when they're out on the floor. Again, to remind them that, you know, everything in your business is an expense except for your customers who bring the money and who pay those expenses. So when you stay focused on your customers, you know, good things start coming.

I want to talk about, you know, kind of the foundations of business and retail today in a couple of key kind of cornerstone segments. So when we're talking about a successful retailer, I want to start with kind of the basics of planning. Talk to me about just kind of your strategies with retailers on a daily or weekly basis. Some of those foundational things of planning, goal setting and then what reporting. We're going after on a weekly basis.

Yes. So if you don't mind, we'll back it up even a little farther because there's the weekly and the monthly rhythm that a business has to get into to communicate clearly with their team. But really. So I'd like to go back a little bit and talk about structure because, you know, so there's the day to day of growing your business and you know, so there's, you know, I mean, I believe in having weekly meetings, monthly meetings, quarterly meetings, annual planning meetings. I believe that meetings are, you know, one of the ways that you and your team develop rhythm. But one of the biggest mistakes that I make, and one of them is one of the things that our best clients do well, is see the bigger picture and build the structure that's needed for their team members to thrive. So I'll give you an example. A training program. You know, I have this saying, if it ain't written, it ain't real. But until you've taken everything that, until you've taken your vision for your business and created a manual that shares that vision, that has taken that vision and created standards around it and train your people to it, they're going to have a hard time thriving. Because you know, here's something that's an interesting truth. If you don't create standards for your business, your team members have no choice but to create their own. So when I think about what do the best retailers do around planning, there's the rhythm that you have in your store, there's a rhythm of reset your floor, buying, receiving and all those things. But even more importantly, if you want to have the long term, big time success, you have to plan what I call focus time into your day. You have to see the big picture things. You have to create the marketing plan, you have to create the training manuals, you have to do all that big picture stuff that's important. And you know, so when we talk about the week, I think that, well, I know that the best retailers find time to do the important work. The people who are struggling are forever in the weeds. And the only way to get out of the weeds is to stop schedule the time, do the important work so good.

Something we always say too is, you know, it's the 20% of your list that gets you the 80% of your results, right? But it's often that 20% of the things that people procrastinate the most on and they push off to the end of their day or to the end of their work week. So what you're saying is Absolutely correct.

So can I share something else with you? A couple things. So I've created a. And I created this when I was a retailer, and I call it the retailer's time system. And it's a way to look at, you know, we're talking about structure here, and you're asking about, you know, planning and things like that. But the best retailers use in our community anyway, use this retailer's time system. And there's four Fs in it. There's flex time, floor time, focus time, and free time. And if you start to become very, very intentional about how you use your time, you'll be able to get out of the weeds and do this important work. So most of most independent retailers I know live in the world of flex time, which is multitasking. And I lived in flextime for, I don't know, 15 years, and I never got where I wanted to go. But then I started to schedule floor time, meaning when I was scheduled on the floor, that's all I did. I didn't take calls from my vendors. I didn't run down to the, to the basement to work on the schedule. As soon as there was, you know, a lull in the traffic, I worked on the floor. I worked with my customers, I worked with my team, and that's floor time. And what I found was, all of a sudden I was having a lot more fun on the floor again because I wasn't being distracted by all the tasks that every, you know, store manager, owner has to do. So that's floor time either. There's flex time, which is when you're multitasking. There's floor time when you're on the floor, focused on what happens on the floor. And then there's focus time. And focus time is when you do the things that I just talked about. That's when you write the manuals. That's when you, you know, when you do the training. That's when you think about your business in a meaning way and when the more focus time you can build into your schedule, the more free time you're going to have. Because another characteristic of successful retailers is they take time off. You have to rest.

I'm sure there's a lot of them that are listening right now shaking their heads, going, aha. I mean, it's a perfect system, but the time off is kind of a slap in the side of the face. Like, yeah, you do, right? Because you do. Someone else's cup of yours is empty.

So well, and that's right. And, you know, and all of the science is showing it now too. So can I share a story? So there's a boutique owner, she has three stores, three women's high end women's clothing stores and she joined our platinum Mastermind group and she was of the opinion that she had to keep working harder and harder and harder and she was literally burned out. And when she joined the group, the first thing we said to her is, look, the first thing we're going to do is going to get you out of this. I have to work harder mindset and get you into thinking about what your business, what needs to happen in your business in order for you to, in order for it to run without you. And within two years she took four weeks in Italy and she left her business. She went from being totally in the weeds every day, all day to being able to take four weeks in Italy and essentially check out of her business. And you know, when she talked about it in retrospect, she said, I couldn't imagine that I would get to that place. And that's what I really want your listeners to understand is that it's really, you know, the secret to your long term success is not tactical. It's not learning the next great marketing thing. It's not about social media, it's about you being a professional retail business owner. It's about you thinking about your business in a professional, big picture, long term way. So I have a friend, I was in a Mastermind with a guy, super, super successful guy and he said this to me and I know it'll be, you know, it will strike a nerve with most of your listeners. He said, bob, in the beginning of a business, the more you do, the more you make. He said, but there comes a time in a business where the more you think, the more you make. And since you can't think and do at the same time, when you get to this place where your business is growing but you're stuck, you have to start, start doing less and thinking more. Do you agree with that, Ashley?

Oh, I totally agree. I totally agree. I think that there's a difference in being a solo entrepreneur or a hustler or the things that you have to do at the beginning of your business, just like you said. And being a CEO, a CEO, of course they're not going to lower or say not avoid doing the things that the entry level staff would do, but they know where their time is most precious and valuable and makes the most return on investment. I think that's exactly what you're saying. You have to be a retail expert and know how to get the roi. And that's by thinking. So. Good.

That's right. You know, and, and, and they do it, you know, they spend the time, they put it on their calendar and, and they, and they work appropriately.

So let's talk about money a little bit because I think in regards to planning and just making sure that you're working, let's say smarter and not harder. Let's talk about on a weekly basis how you are using your money mindset to think about your business and make smarter planning choices along building margin. I know you've got some great analogies when it comes to pricing as well.

Yeah. So, and for all of your listeners, Ashley, we did share a video from the retailer Retail Mastery system on the three rules for profitable retail pricing. And so, you know, one of the things that I believe with, you know, to the bottom of my heart is that you, you owe it to yourself to earn the right to charge as much as possible. So when we think about money mindset, and I love the way that you, you phrase that, so many independent retailers are afraid to charge what they'. So your challenge when it comes to mindset is to create the kind of business, to create the kind of team that gives your customers the experience they deserve, that allows you to charge what you should. So, so many people feel that they're playing the price game with the online merchants, with the guy down the street. When you're not, you're playing price game with yourself. You're asking yourself every morning, what can I do that's fun and interesting and cool that will make my customers loyal to me? You know, one of the things that everybody who's listening this has to understand because I assume that you know, just about all your listeners are independent boutique owners is that you know, you have to charge what you're worth and you earn that right by giving your customers a great experience. The minute you start playing the price game, you're screwed.

It's so true. And you know what? We have this conversation, I think on a daily basis because if your customers are really after the lowest price, you and I both know they can go to Walmart and get the lowest price any day of the week. And you know what? They're going to price match it on top of it it. But if you're, you're in the business of providing an experience which is going to set you apart every single day. So good.

Yes. And so let's talk about something else because so many people, and this happens in, in, in the boutique industry as, as Much as anywhere, and because I shop a lot, is there's this whole idea of, you know, or there's this mistaken idea that it's about your store. So I was just, you know, you and I were. Before we started recording, and for all the listeners, I just got back from a college visit tour with my youngest son. And so we went shopping in both downtown Bozeman and in downtown Boulder, Colorado, and both of them beautiful districts, beautiful, you know, beautiful buildings, and the stores were all beautiful. And, Ashley, it drove me crazy to go into these gorgeous stores and get essentially no service. And I came up with this idea of the engagement O meter. And the fanciest store of all had a zero on the engagement o meter. You know, I mean, so I'd come into a store and, you know, nobody would acknowledge me. Or if they acknowledged me, they'd look up and say, hi, you know, I went into a kite store. You know, this pained me because I'm from the kite business. Beautiful kite store in Boulder, Colorado. Three people standing behind the counter, not one of them looked up and said hello to us. Not one of them was engaging a customer at all. So when we talk about the experience, I just really want your listeners just to understand that the experience, you know, of course you need to have great selection. Of course it needs to be displayed well. But the experience experience comes from having good people who know what they're supposed to do, who have been trained on your product and have been trained how to sell and are expected to get out on the floor and engage with your customers.

Man, you know, you talked about having the weekly meetings, right? Weekly, quarterly. Let's talk more about that training experience, because we're coming up upon the fourth quarter, right, where this is the kiss of death if you're a brick and mortar store owner and your employees are not trained at this point. So what do you think is the best way for someone who's listening right now to create a plan to start training those employees on customer service so that they can maximize this time of year that we're entering into.

Absolutely. So now that you know, so on, the ideal would be that they would go back and they would write a training manual. And, you know, the training manual would have all the standard operating procedures, would talk about customer philosophy, and do all those things to create a training program. But let's just kind of assume that there's not time for that. So the best thing to do is to, you know, create short and sweet video and post them either on a private YouTube channel or on a Private Facebook group, a secret Facebook group that is just for your customers. So what they would do, what your reader listeners would do, is sit down and say, what do my people need to know for fourth quarter? What do they need to know? What are our return policies? What is going on with marketing in the first quarter? Quarter, you know, what do they need to know? That's the first thing. So standard operating procedures, philosophies, things like that, make videos, one shot wonders. They don't have to be fancy, they don't have to be edited, they don't have to be produced. You take your phone and you get it down, you know, you just make a video and you post these videos. The second part is product knowledge. So again, you make videos about product knowledge, college. These are going to be the most popular lines this holiday season. This is how you sell these most popular lines at the holiday season. So you've got sort of operations, you've got product and then you've got selling. And so really you want to make the biggest impact at the holidays. There has to be sales training. So let's talk about that for a moment because let. May I make your listeners a little uncomfortable or excited? You can either become uncomfortable or excited. So I do a lot of sales training and whenever I do sales training, I ask this question. I say, write down the average sale of your average, you know, you write down your average sale and so let's say what would be an average sale of a listener to this podcast? 100 bucks.

Let's keep it simple. 100 bucks.

Let's keep it Simple. $100. Then I say, so look at the average sale of your best salesperson and write that down. And there is always at least a 25% difference. So if the average sale is 100, their best salesperson is 125. Then I say, so think about it this way, way every time somebody other than the person who is averaging $125 talks to a customer, it's costing you $25. And there's always a moment of silence. But it's true, isn't it?

Absolutely.

So the $125. So the salesperson who averages $125 is not getting a better quality customer. Customer. They're just engaging them and selling them more skillfully. So you know, we do online sales training, it's called the retail sales academy. And you know, so if you don't, if your listeners don't know how to sell themselves or don't know how to train their teams how to sell, they don't have to do it themselves. You can allow me to train your people. And I don't want to turn this into a long conversation about the retail sales academy, but when we talk about fourth quarter, you want to maximize fourth quarter. You want to make sure that every single customer who comes into your store is not only greeted and is not only treated in a friendly way, but is actually engaged in a meaningful way. Meaning there's good questions being asked, there's, you know, follow up questions that there is stuff that, you know that suggestive selling is going on, that's adding on is going to going on because the people who sell skillfully own Christmas.

Let's talk about some of those questions and some of those upsell cross sell strategies because you and I both know the kiss of death question. The can I help you find anything today? Immediately sends everybody right back out the door.

Right? Right.

Nope, Just look in kiss of death. So what are some alternative questions we can train our staff to ask ask to avoid that right away?

Sure, sure. So, so I mean, what I'm going to do here is I'm going to sort of jump into my sales trainer mode for a second and just sort of share, you know, these, this, this answer. So the first thing that happens, the first step. So I teach something called the six steps to the perfect purchase. I don't want you to make a big sale. I want your customers to get the perfect purchase. Because if they get the perfect purchase, they're going to come back. Right, Right. The total dollar does not reflect the quality of the sale. The customer's happiness reflects the quality of the sale. So the first step is the greeting. And you know, to your point, the kiss of death is can I help you? Because they always say no. And so what we teach is you use warm, warm words of welcome. Good morning, good afternoon, how are you doing? You know, so think about if somebody comes to your home, home, what do you say to them when you invite them in? The greeting is not about selling something. The greeting is merely establishing the fact that we are two human beings talking together. And what you're trying to do here is you're trying to make people feel comfortable with you so that when you do start asking questions that they feel good about it. So you, you know, you use these warm words of welcome and then you start to get engaged in warm chatter. Then you do something that we call comment or compliment. You know, so being in the women's fashion, you would say, oh, I love your coat, or I love your shoes, or you know, you can always talk about the weather. If somebody's wearing a beautiful necklace, you can comment on that, you can compliment on that. Remember, what we're trying to do is we're trying to merely sort, loosen the conversation up a little bit, because what you want is, you want people feeling super comfortable answering your questions because it's the holidays and you're talking about gifts. And the better, the more open they are with their answers to your skill, skillfully asked questions, the better, you know, the more likely it is that you're going to get them to a perfect purchase. So you start by just establishing that human connection. And then you ask something that we call the key question. And it's called a key question, because a key question really unlocks that conversation. It takes it from, you know, hi, how you doing? That's a beautiful necklace. To you're in this store for a reason. Let's talk about what it is. Now, there's a couple of different key questions, but for the holidays, you're always asking a choice key question. So you're saying, are you looking for something for yourself? Are you looking for a gift? Or maybe a little of both. In that question, when they give you an answer, you're now off to the races, right? If they say, oh, I'm looking for a gift, then of course, and the next question is, well, who is it for? What are they like, you know, what, what are their fashion? You know, what are they? What do they like to wear? What do they look like? Things like that? If they're looking for themselves. Oh, good. What are you shopping for today? Is there a special occasion? So the key question allows you to start the third, that whole questioning and listening phase of the six step to the perfect purchase. And then it's just a question of you being the owner, training your people to ask great questions, because every great question gets you closer to a perfect purchase.

These are so good. I hope you everyone who's listening has a page full of notes by now, because this is absolutely right. Really. You know, Bob, as I hear you speak, I know that this is relevant to brick and mortar store owners. And we have a lot of listeners who are both brick and mortar and online. But truly, it's all relevant online just the same. You know, when you're Facebook marketing, it's really the same process. You're reading, you're building a relationship, you're digging in before you ask that key question. You're not going to, you know, kiss a girl on the first date, hopefully, right? So you're gonna build the relationship before you ask her to buy something with you in a Facebook group or in an Instagram story, whatever it is. So this is all relevant. Can you tell the next step?

So when I teach marketing, and really, I mean, what I'm, what, what we are best known for, well, we're, you know, we're known for customer service and sales training and all those things, but a lot of what we do is marketing. And when we think about marketing, I teach this concept called the emotional bank account. And, you know, and I give all the credit to Stephen Covey because he introduced me to the concept in his book the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. But Covey contends in his book, and I agree that, you know, that in any relationship, there's, there's, it's an emotional bank account and what you're trying to do as an independent person, brick and mortar store or an online merchant, as you're trying to build the relationship. So everything that you do that's good and fun and interesting and shows interest in them can be viewed as a deposit. And every time you ask them for money or ask them to do something, it's a withdrawal. And so just as in a real bank account, you know, the bigger the balance, the more you get to withdraw. The exact same thing happens with the emotions bank account. So your marketing isn't just about getting people in the store. The marketing is first and foremost building the emotional bank account so that the balance with your customers is high enough so that when you do ask them to come into your store, they go, well, of course, I love this store. I love what they do, you know, and that's what social media is. The biggest mistake I see people make on social media is they're trying to sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, instead of, you know, then asking for a little love in return after a lot of love has been given.

You bet. It's Gary Vee strategy. Right? Jab, jab, jab. Right, you've got it. So I'm curious, I want to go back to your six steps to the perfect. Was it six steps to the perfect purchase? So you've got the greeting, the comment or compliment. The key question, can you talk about once someone is interested in their walking to the cabin cash register?

Absolutely. So, and especially at the holidays, this becomes so important. So, you know, so the, the questioning and listening. So there's the greeting and then there's the questioning and listening. And the key question is actually part of the questioning and listening. And so once you start asking questions, then they're going to Give you information that, you know, allows you to go and show them the appropriate merchandise. Right. You know, not really asking, asking for, you know, for the sale. You're not until they start giving you good information. So let's just say I'm in a woman's clothing store and I'm looking for something for myself. So when you go to that, you know, so I'm looking for a sweater for myself. So you start asking questions. What's the occasion? Is what colors do you like? And you're always looking for nice nonverbal cues because, you know, their body language is telling you a lot. And I talk about in the questioning and listening, there's always this idea of active listening. You're really paying attention to their body language. What are their eyes telling you? If you hold up a red sweater and a blue sweater and they look at that red sweater and their eyes start to, you know, shine, well, it means that they like red. But here's the thing. It's not a perfect purchase if they don't have everything they need to look great in that sweater. So a skilled salesperson is always showing other items at the same time. So there's this red sweater, and you know what? I have a beautiful necklace with matching earrings that you would love. So while people are buying what we call the main thing, you're always looking to add on during that time. Time. Because it's not a perfect purchase. So what are they buying? They're not buying a sweater, Ashley. They're buying the feeling they get when they look amazing. If they're buying a suit for a job interview, they're buying the feeling of confidence that they get when they sit down. If they're, you know, going out on a special date, they're buying the feeling they get when they look really, really sexy. Sexy. So if you're not selling them everything they need to complete it, you're not giving them the service they deserve. It's not a perfect purchase. And you're not taking all the money or you're not getting all the money that you should get either. Now we're talking about the holidays. So you have the main item and you're adding on. You're adding on. You're adding on, you know, show, show, show, until they say no. But then once you've established what that main thing and the, you know, associated accessories that will make them feel great, then you say, is there anybody else on your list? You don't assume that you're done. Is there anybody else on your list? And you'll Be amazed at how many people will say, you know, yeah, Aunt Dorothy, I haven't bought for Aunt Dorothy yet. So your holiday customer is different than your regular customer. Your regular customer is in buying a thing. Your holiday customer is in checking people off their list. And if you can check two or three people off their list, they're happy and you're happy. So you're always asking that question after that initial sale, after they bought the main thing, then you say, are you looking for anybody else? Who else is on your list? Or you might even say if they were shopping for themselves, you say, have you seen. Because if I'm working with you and I've developed this relationship with you and I've asked you all these good questions, I have a feeling for who you are and what you like. And since I know who you are and what you like, I also know what else in my store would fit you like a glove. And so I say, oh, you love that red blouse. Come check out this red coat. You're going to love this. So you're always looking for other opportunities to help that customer get a more perfect purchase. Does this make sense? But then we're not done yet because this is where the holidays you really get to make money. And that is by having impulse items at the counter. So you're always, you always have things that are easy to demonstrate and are small. And you say, have you seen these stocking stuffers? And whether it's a lotion, whether it's earrings, whether it's expensive, remember, stocking stuffers don't have to be inexpensive. They just have to be small impulse items. It should be a non negotiable standard that in every store, once the customer gets to the counter before they're rung up, that, you know, there's this, have you seen, seen. And they're demonstrated 1, 2, even 3 different impulse items that might make good stocking stuffers that might, you know, they're impulse items.

Such a good tip. Absolutely. And what about the actual close? Because I'm assuming the perfect purchase doesn't end right when we're ringing up. Tell me about the follow up to the sale.

So the follow up. So yes, so of course there's the, the, the entire, you know, so there's the closing questions. You know, that's one of the steps is the close. But you know, to your point, once it's been rung up, there's a couple of things that, and these are some of the most important tips that I can give your listeners is you really need to have a loyalty program because a loyalty program gives you the opportunity to ask for their contact information. Your contact information, your customer database is in my opinion the most important asset in your business. Because once someone joins your loyalty program, they have figuratively raised their hand and given you permission to market to them. And so when we talk about how to follow up, the first thing is to make sure that people again a non negotiable standard. So do you know about our, you know, Bloomin boutiques, whatever the name of your loyalty program is, every single customer is invited to join the program. And now this is a little pro tip that, I mean, it's a pro tip. Everyone who joins your loyalty program should get a handwritten thank you card after, you know, after the fact. So imagine this, Ashley, you come into my store, you have this great experience, highly trained, highly skilled, super helpful person gets you to the perfect purchase. You come to the counter and you know, I mean, you've had a great experience. I invite you to join my loyalty program and you go, of course. This is, this place is awesome. I love this place. And then you come home and then three days later you get an email or if you can get their physical address, you put, you know, you get a card in the mail. That's how you start a relationship. The right way.

You don't love them and leave them. Right. You've got to follow them.

No, no, no. So, you know, there's only three ways to grow your business. There's get new customers. There's increase the average sale, which is what we're talking about here. But then the big time long term growth comes from more transactions per customer. And you're right, that love them and leave them mentality does not get you loyalty does not get you more transactions per customer.

So all of these are such perfect tips as we walk into the holiday season. And I know that there's one more, you know, topic I really want to touch on as it relates to the holidays and your team. And that is the idea of a sale versus a promotion. Shifting gears just a little bit. If I see there's one red flag coming for someone. Many retailers, especially new retailers, they feel like they have to put the store on sale in order to make it through Black Friday. Can you talk about your thoughts on that?

Absolutely, absolutely. So there is a huge difference between a sale and a promotion. A sale, you know, means that you have a storewide discount and you know, everybody in fashion should have at least two sales a year. Year, you know, to flush out the old inventory, make Room for the new inventory, free up cash for new inventory and things like that. After that, you only want to have a sale if you're being incredibly strategic. And so there are lots of different things that you can do that drive traffic but don't in, you know, don't, you know, have a storewide sale attached to it. In fact, you know, I would love to invite your listeners to go to whizbangtraining.com there's an H in whizbang. And go to the blog and I have a blog post, a video blog on five different types of promotions for retailers. And because, you know, there's so many things, I'll just give you, you know, I know we're running short on time here, but I'll give you one great promotion for the holidays that's called an item sale, it's called a special, and it's called the promotion is the 12 days of Christmas. And some of your listeners probably know about it. But here's the scoop, here's what happens. There is every day for the 12 days leading up to Christmas, there's one item on sale at a super deep discount. Not 10, not 15, not even 20, you know, 40, 50, 75% off one item. And then every day in the future, in the early morning of the day, you release that one item and that one item drives people into the store. So remember, there's a difference between selling and marketing. The job of marketing is not to sell something, it's to get someone in the door. So while you have one item on sale that drives the traffic, it gets them into the store. And then you're highly trained, super friendly, you know, great people and your wonderful merchandise and your awesome displays gets them to buy a lot more. So you don't have to have a storewide discount associated with it. And I understand what happens because I did this exactly. You know, like you said, for probably 12 years, anytime I did a promotion, fear led me to put a store wide discount to it. Because I was afraid that if I didn't have a storewide discount associated with my promotion, no one would come. But what I found was I just trained my customers to wait for me to have another sale. So you can have customer appreciation events, you can do off sites, you can do all sorts of stuff, but you don't have to have a store wide discount associated with your sales. In fact, you shouldn't unless you're being incredibly strong, strategic.

I think it's so good. And it goes back to what you said earlier. What you said earlier Just about valuing your worth and not getting into the price game. And, you know, you're not going to go into Black Friday competing with Amazon or a big box retailer on price because you're going to lose every time. But what you will win on is that experience. And that's exactly what twelve days of Christmas. And I know so many of the things that you're referencing, that's what it's all about. So perfect advice. I appreciate it.

You're welcome.

You know, I think as our time kind of wraps up together again, so many great takeaways from this podcast. I really appreciate it so much, Bob, having you join us and share your wisdom. And I just kind of want to have you leave us with this parting thought. You know, there's so many, I'll say, new retailers listening, but there's so many experienced retailers listening, too, that are maybe shifting their sales strategy. Maybe they're online retailers that are moving into brick and mortar, or they're brick and mortar stores who've been in existence for 15, 20, 25 years, and they're moving into an online presence. So if you could say your biggest and best advice, you know, of where these retailers should stop and focus as we go into the fourth quarter, as they're entering something new, what is that number one focus going to be?

The customer experience. Absolutely. You know, that's what people are looking for. People are looking for a great experience. If they're looking, you know, if they're, if they're going online. The biggest mistake, there's all the things that we've talked about, but there's also this whole idea of authenticity. You know, a local brick and mortar or a local brick and mortar that has an online presence. You know, I really consider small, you know, online retailers sort of like local retailers. You know, this whole idea of, of be great, be yourself, tell your story, be authentic, and do the things that reflect your commitment to your customers. When I talk about sales training, that's a reflection of a commitment to the customers. When we talk about what does your website look like, what does it feel like? Does it tell your story? Again, that's a commitment to your customers, a commitment to how they feel about themselves, a commitment to how they feel about you. And if you are a pro, if you're good, if you're out there working hard to be better as a business person and you're really leading with your heart, good things happen.

So good. Well, Bob, thank you so much again for your time today. And if anyone wants to follow up and catch base with or touch base with you, Bob. We'll have all of your information in our show notes, but give us your website one more time.

Sure. It's whiz bangtraining.com and there's an H in whiz bang.

Perfect. And we'll get that all linked up in the show notes. Thanks again Bob for your time and for being the leader that you are for this industry. We certainly appreciate it.

Well, thank you for having me, Ashley. And thanks for all the good work you do too.

Wasn't that a great episode? Bob is such a wealth of knowledge and I can't wait to share even more of that great experience Bob has with all of you who are members of the Boutique Hub. You know, Bob himself has been a member of the Boutique Hub for over a year now and actually right before we recorded this podcast shared with us a very special video just for Boutique Hub members and earlier training library on his pricing strategy and how to get more bang for your buck in the world of retail. So if you are a Boutique Hub member, I invite you to head on over to our training library, enjoy Bob's video and look for more content that Bob's going to be sharing with all of our members of the Boutique Hub very soon. He certainly is a world of knowledge and a wealth of information and we're so thankful to be working with him. Guys, I hope you enjoyed this this episode. As always, let me know what you were doing while you listen to the show. Send me an insta story over at AJ Alderson I'd love to see and I'd be happy to repost it on my story and over on Boutique Hub business. You guys, your feedback means the world to me on this show and I want to make sure that each and every week we're showing up and giving you the best information we possibly can to help you run your business and then invite you as members of the Boutique Hub, if you're not already, to come on up over and take it one step further inside of our training library, which is packed with over 100 hours of training and information for your business, for your wholesale business, for your team, and also take advantage of all those exclusive discounts that are offered to Boutique Hub members. I'm not sure if you knew this, but there's over $3,000 a year worth of savings available to you as a Boutique Hub member, all for a membership of $24 a month. So it's a pretty good ROI if you ask me. Just by being a member of the Hub, there's a number of service providers and brands that are willing to give you something special just to make sure that you succeed in business. So take advantage of that anytime. And don't forget, message me if you ever have questions or feedback or just need more information. Again, it's AJ Alderson on Instagram and.

I'd love to chat.

We'll talk to you next week, guys. Hey guys, thank you so much for listening to this episode. We hope that you loved it. Don't forget to hit subscribe and leave a rating and review down below for a chance to be one of our featured listeners each and every week. For more information on our spirit of community over competition and how to access complete show notes and bonus downloads from our guests, head on over to the boot teacup.com and join the community. We'll see you next week.