#616: Community, Curiosity, and Confidence: The Triple C's of Brand Building

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Business can be a lonely game, but it doesn't have to be. Welcome to Boutique Chat, where we explore community over competition and how to scale your company with the balance and the happiness that we all seek. We'll hear from product based businesses of all types, retailers, e commerce and wholesale brands, along with industry experts shaping the future of our industry. I'm your host Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and and I can't wait to chat.

Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. This week this is going to be a real treat because if there's anyone inside of the Boutique Hub who drops truth bombs more than I do, probably more than I do, it's Eric. I always look forward to what Eric has to say. I feel like a lot of the things where I'm trying to really stir up deep thought or conversation or maybe sometimes even offer like a differing perspective, I feel like you always come in and maybe not always. We're 100% aligned. There's times where we've probably differed in opinion, but I really value the conversation that you bring to the community. So, Eric, I'm so pumped that you're here today. Thanks for joining me.

Oh, of course. Thank you, Ash. That was so sweet.

It was true. Truth bombs. We're going to get into some real truth bombs today.

Oh, God.

We've got to, we got to get to the backstory. So for those who don't know you yet, haven't had the opportunity, tell me about, tell me about your yourself, where you're from. How did you get started with the brand?

Cool. All right, so my name is Eric Ruiak. The company's Hesper jewelry company. I was. So I grew up in Washington D.C. i was actually raised in a really, I was, I was kind of raised with like a silver spoon. My dad is this very famous attorney. My mom had this very prolific career. You know, I went to prep school, I went to Northwest University. I went, I studied communications there and I went and I studied theater. And I mean like, who goes to school to study theater? Privileged kids. So when I graduated, I toured with Wicked for a year. I hated it. And I then for the first time kind of in my life because I was sort of like plugged into this, like affluent. Like you go to prep school and you go to college and you go to banking or whatever. Yeah, I was kind of lost. Friend of mine from Northwestern, his family owned this big diamond business in Hong Kong. I had visited them because I was like, after I finished the tour, I was like, why travel for a little Bit because the great thing about music theater tours is you have no bills, so you save all this money. So I saw these billionaires at a trade show in like, you know, crappy clothing, working elbow to elbow with their lowest level person, all with mutual respect. And it just was such a cool environment. I thought, God, you know, I want to do something creative because everyone in my family is very traditional, like attorney, all that kind of stuff. And I thought, well, maybe jewelry. That's all. The jewelry bug got caught in my head. Then when I went back to la, because I'd moved to LA after the tour, I took some classes, I learned how to do jewelry, and then I started selling at farmer's markets. And I did that for years. And that was really how I got the brand started. And then our real claim to fame was I was getting actually to a point of burnout where it was like five, six years of not really feeling like I was making headway. And one of our pieces was on Game, got on Game of Thrones. So that's how the brand. Yeah, that's how the brand blew up. Yeah. And then after that, we got into department stores and we got celebrity clientele. And then it was a more. That was our little break where I felt like, okay, like I have an actual company. I mean, for five years I felt like I was faking it, you know, and now I was like, well, maybe I'm kind of not faking it. I mean, I am faking it, but maybe people think I'm not faking it. Now I can go and get in stores, you know, so that's sort of what happened. And it just, it just, it just sort of like snowballed from there.

I have so many thoughts and questions. First of all, I am stunned. I had no idea that was your background. And who, who starts the conversation with, I grew up with a silver spoon in my mouth. I've never heard anybody start a conversation like that. But it's funny because when you speak, I always think, man, he has such a worldly perspective. Like, I know that you're well traveled, right? And now I can understand why. But also, I love that you have the worldly perspective. But then the thing that was a trigger for you was seeing a billionaire work elbow to elbow with somebody else and going, wow, I want, I want what that is. So that's incredible. I've got to go back to that. Because you don't just all of a sudden get a piece of jewelry on Game of Thrones and then don't just all of a Sudden, you know, get a celebrity client. Clearly there was a lot of work that went into that piece and there was a lot of putting yourself out there that went into that piece. And also to your point, I think everyone is a. We all dabble with a little imposter syndrome from time to time, right? So that's, that's truth. We can go down that road in a minute. But tell me about the work. How did you get to Game of Thrones? What was the effort before you got to that point where you felt like you made a break?

Well, so like I said, I started doing farmer's markets. And for anybody who's done farmers markets, it's tremendous amount of work. You have to get up at like 4 or 5. You got to get there, you got to set up, you do the whole thing. And then with me, at least there were days where it was like 18 hour work days where I wouldn't sell anything. And it was really valuable because, you know, I think we are taught that failure is really bad when we're kids. You know, I mean, grading systems, things like that. So, you know, for me, like, I worked really hard. I went to the right prep school, to Georgetown Prep. Oh my God. Then, oh, I got into Northwestern University. And it's like fear of failure, fear of failure. You know, boom, boom, boom. And I graduated top of my class, Northwestern. So in my mind, I had worked really hard. I'd taken advantage of the unbelievable gifts I'd been given in terms of just the cosmic lottery of having loving and successful parents. And then I get into the real world not understanding what it is to lose. And so then I spent five years losing and in the mindset I had losing. So it was so wildly important because nothing phases me now. I mean, like, when you get, when you're, you know, when you wake up March 1st and you're like, how am I going to get a thousand dollars together by the end of the month? You know, my first year in business, I made like $10,000. I mean, like, it was, it was really hard. So. But I did keep. But I did learn to keep persevering and I was a hard worker. So I did have that. So I kept going, kept going. I had friends that were young, right? We're in our 20s, we're in LA, who are stylists. So the way I got on Game of Thrones was my friend Molly. She had been hired by HBO to like, assist with certain aspects of things. So she was working on one show, she got my jewelry. It didn't work for that show, but it ended up in the hands of hbo. So when Michelle, the costume director for Game of Thrones, was looking for a ring, she put in fire ring because she was looking for a ring that kind of, like, was like fire, because it was a scene in Game of Thrones with all this fire in it. The name of the ring was a gemfire ring. It was completely like. Like kismetic the way that it worked. That being said, the day before the Game of Thrones thing happened, my parents were in town for their anniversary. They have a home in la, and so, like, they were. But they were staying down in Laguna. And I was at my breaking point, where I was like, all of my friends. This was 2016. So how old was I? I just turned 30. And all of my friends were like, you know, becoming. Their careers are taking off. They're finishing med school. They were like, you know, on partner track at law firms.

And.

And they. I love my friends. And no one ever made me feel bad about where I was in my life except me. And I was. I just felt like I wasn't. I wasn't making any progress. It wasn't that I was embarrassed that I'm a jewelry designer. I just felt like every year was a struggle, and I went down and it takes, like, a gunshot wound to make me cry. And I was, like, crying with my parents, and I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I'm just at my limit. And they were so proud of me because I started business and things like that. And the very next day was the season six finale of Game of Thrones, which changed my life. It was unbelievable. Like, the timing was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And then everything changed after that.

We have to talk about that more because I don't know about you, but I feel like the majority of the success stories I hear from entrepreneurs, they always have a pivotal moment. They always have. I was at rock bottom win. And even though we know that's true and it's the build, it's the climb out of rock bottom that really is, you know, man, that's like the fruit of the labor, right? Even knowing that we're still so scared of failure and the idea of failure. What is. What's your thoughts on just entrepreneurs today and their need to maybe get knocked down once or twice so they know that it's not failure. It's just like, Sarah, Sarah and I always say this. If you're not winning, you're learning. How can we shift that narrative for people today?

So I actually listened to an interview, Jay Shetty. And he talked about something that I really took to heart, and it really changed my life. And it was about cycles. And he just had his way of describing it, which I don't even recall perfectly, but the way that I've sort of transmuted it, is that every business, everything you do, whether it's. Even if you're just corporate, there are these different cycles that we have that are part of this bigger sort of cycle of success. And the first one's learning. And, you know, you can't go into something you're not. We're not always in our winning season. We're just not, you know, I mean, I've. I've done really well over the last decade, like, really. And I'm very proud of where I am, and I'm grateful for where I am. But there's a lot of learning that happens amongst the winning seasons. And there are season. There are times where things that worked two seconds ago really fail now. Fail.

Yeah.

I think that embracing the reality that this is part of success, you cannot just constantly be picking the freaking apples. You got to plant the damn tree, you got to water it, you got to take care of it, and you have to embrace that, and you have to enjoy it, you know, and. And we stop enjoying it because of things like comparing ourselves to others, you know, not paying attention, paying more attention to what other people are doing than what we should be doing. Losing the joy and curiosity, you know? I mean, every year there's another problem, right? I mean, if it's not Covid, it's an election cycle. If it's not election cycle, your warehouse burns down. There's always. There's something, you know, but you still. If you still want to be successful, you still have to be. You still have to show up.

Yeah.

So for me, when I let go of the. When I let go of my desire to always be on top, I allowed myself the space to really be on top in the moments like, how much can I learn this year? This year for me, right now is a huge growth year. Last year was a learning year. So I knew last year was going to be hard because I had a lot to learn. Things had changed. I had to modify my team. I had to get curious about what was working, and I embraced it. I wasn't beating myself up because I wasn't doing a million dollars a month at that time. You know, I mean, I was really engaging in that part of my cycle.

Yeah.

And that gave me a lot of peace. Yeah.

I think that's so, so helpful knowing what season you're in, knowing what cycle you're in. Absolutely. That's so true. Let's, I love that you also brought up curiosity. Let's go into that a little bit. Because your brand, you've built this incredible brand, you have a higher price point product. You've, you've proven that this product can be sold multiple different ways to multiple different groups of people. Talk to me about like the curiosity in building your brand and how you've built something that's lasting over multiple mediums. And again, higher price point, even over live sales, which typically you don't see a higher price point in live sales. You know, talk to me about that. And just like what has gone into like building the brand stickiness, I think.

So. One of the things that I had to get curious about first was who I was. You know, I, I am a kind of person who, when I am forced to be someone I'm not or I'm attempting to be something that's not authentic to me, it gives me a lot of distress. It's just my personality, you know. And so knowing that I, because, you know, when I first, so when I first started selling wholesale, my showrooms were like, here are the trends. Make something like this. Here are the trends. Make something like this. And I was like, but I don't make puka shell necklaces. What the hell am I supposed to do? And it gave me a lot of anxiety because I was like, well, I'm never going to be successful if I'm not doing the things I need to do and things I'm supposed to do. And you know, that was one of the things about Northwestern that I love so much. And the school of communication that I love so much was a lot of what I learned there was about analyzing the lay of the land and engaging with it as who you are.

Yes.

So the reason I think Hespera has stayed doing well is that I don't, I know what's going on around me and 90% of it I ignore. And the things that are authentic with me are I lean into, you know, I mean I love doing like extravagant, cool looking pieces. Well, one of the big trends we all are talking about, mob wife. And I was like, oh, my mom's some jersey. I can get into this. But it's fine. Like if, if I think a trend is fine. That's why some people are so weird about trends. They're like, no, trends are bad. Da, da da. Well, if it inspires you, you know, if you Have a boutique and you're in Jersey and you like furs and you want to. You want. You're like, ooh, now's the time to bring in my faux fur collection. That inspires you. So for me, I listen to that inner compass a lot, and that has given the brand a lot of staying power because our audience engages with the voice of the brand. If you're building a brand, it's very important that you have a very clear viewpoint. That doesn't mean your viewpoint is going to be what Vogue is talking about every season, but it doesn't need to be, you know, and so that has been, in terms of at least, like, the product development and the design side, that has been such a key thing for me to acknowledge and understand about the brand is that when I listen to myself, it succeeds.

That's so good. So true. I'm curious. Like, let's relate that then to the retail perspective, right? Because I see it like a product perspective and a wholesale perspective. But the retailer that you're working with through the wholesale side of your business, they have to be very secure in who they are, too. I mean, you're attracting a very specific type of client because they're like, I want things that are different. Like, there's a lot of boutiques out there that are, I'll say, close flippers. We've talked about this on the podcast several times. You're a closed flipper, or you're a brand builder, and you're attracting brand builders. What do your most successful stores have in common that you're working with?

I think a big part of it is confidence. And I know that's. That. That sounds kind of maybe trite, but there are a couple boutiques that I work with that they are very. They feel very strongly about what they're going to carry, who they are, what their message is to their clients, who their clients are. Our jewelry is not. If somebody comes to us and says, like, what sells well, it's probably not going to be a great. We're probably not going to be a great fit because I don't engage in those conversations easily. I mean, like, I, for example, my community. I sell green jewelry really, really well. Well, you know why I sell green jewelry really well? Because when I go live, I always show it up next to my eyeballs, and my vain ass is like, look how good this looks with my eyes. You guys should get green. But, like, green jewelry traditionally is. Is a big no for most major retailers. I mean, I've sold nine figures of jewelry to Nordstrom's and anthropology. I've never sold one green item to them. Interest, you know, I mean, like, yeah, it's not. They know, but they, they. They have all these. I mean, now majors have, like, systems, you know, they have like, oh, here's how many they sold here. But for boutiques, if they, if you love, if you love what you're selling, it translates. And one of the things that I train, because I also offer not like, it's like an official thing, but like, I, I like long standing, intense relationships with my retailers because I like to work with them. And so one of the things I always train them is if I, Eric, am selling Diet Coke and you, Ashley, are selling Diet Coke, it's not the same product. My Diet Coke is Eric's Diet Coke and yours is Ashley's. And what that means is if I hold this Diet Coke, I'm like, guys, this is my favorite thing on earth. I lost 100 pounds pounding this carcinogenic fluke. You know, I mean, like, that's like, that's, you know, different than you being like, this is nice, and I like it. And, you know, when I'm stressed and I'm whatever, instead of grabbing a glass of wine and yelling at my husband because I've had one too many drinks, I just have a Diet Coke. I mean, like, this is like. But it's a different product. Now over here we have. We have spousal support Diet Coke and we have weight loss. I mean, like, it's. That's how it is.

Yeah.

So when I'm selling an emerald necklace and Jane over here is selling an emerald necklace, you're imbuing it with. That's what brand building is. You're imbuing it with your experience, the community, your personality, all those kind of things. I love working with people like that because I'm an intuitive person. So I'll also key into them. So then as I get to know them, I'm like, you know what? You will kick ass selling this necklace because you're this zippy, powerful, cool young woman who, who's doing this and doing that. This necklace clicks with that. This jewelry clicks with that. This is. These are the lines you should carry. This is what you're attracting. This is what you're inspiring. So that those. That's in my mind, what the brand building boutiques are, and you can. It oozes into everything they do.

Yeah, that's so true. This. Do you think that's why, like, lives are so important and why video is so important? Because it's really hard to relay that just simply through photography and text. But video, I think it's a powerful tool.

Yeah, I think it's a very, very, very powerful tool. You know, I think that I used to believe live selling was the future for everybody. And that not meaning that, like, you know, everybody should be live. And like, I'm. I'm a performer. I went to school for theater. Pardon my friend. But I mean, like, at the end of the day, like, I. Going live for me is nothing, you know, I love it. I get energized by it. Some people, it's a lot of work, a lot of energy, or that's just not who they are. That's okay. There are ways you can utilize it for those sort of things. I believe there's a huge missed opportunity in the boutique culture of your business if you are not the community leader. And going live is a powerful thing that you can use, a powerful tool that you can use to enhance that. And I think people should find their way of utilizing some kind of thing like that, you know, I mean, I think it is. I think. I think it really does help and it does allow for your community to view your products much more robustly, you know, oh, this is. This is Ashley's, you know, rails top, you know, versus. Oh, it's a rail stop I found online.

Yeah, exactly. Let's dig into that a little bit further because I. For me, like, one of the most important things I've been talking to boutiques about about 2024 specifically, is if you don't have a community, it's going to be really hard to compete with anyone else online or in person. You have to have a community around the brand. What else do you think goes into building a successful community? What brings people together? What can retailers and brands both do to build community?

I think that authenticity is really, really, really important. And I'll explain my version of it because I think that word gets thrown around a lot and people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm being myself. It's not that. Here's a prime example. I'm very provocative, as you just saw, though. I try to control my mouth. I have a terrible mouth. So, you know, I was like, I'm not going to curse on this podcast. Well, wolves, you know, I mean, like, here, here I am, but I know who I am and like, magnetic people. Everyone is magnetic. I mean, people. I'm not a people. No, everyone is. This is the thing you need to embrace if you want to be really successful. Community building, magnetic people Being magnetic doesn't just attract, it repels. Yeah, it's okay. It is okay not to be liked by everybody. I am. I mean, Ashley, I have no. I have no doubt. You know, there are plenty of big old boutiques that are like, I would like to take Eric and crucify him on the side of the road, and it's okay. And like, there's some who we have legit. I get why they don't like me. We butted heads in ways that were crappy. Maybe I said things I shouldn't have. I mean, but like, I'm. I am who I am. I'm. I'm a. And I know, like, if I were to identify myself, I'm a very kind person. I'm a very well intentioned person. I'm impulsive, which leads to crap. I apologize easily, though. I mean, like, I know these things about. I took the time to get to know who I was, and I allow that to be seen. Does that mean you have to share every moment of your life? Absolutely not. But you do need to share you who you are. That doesn't mean you need to talk about, you know, your sister who's struggling with cancer. You don't need to, but you do need to be real. It's. It's all of the businesses, large and small, I've noticed where, like, for example, on lives where they're like, hi, my name is Darcy. I am a fembot. Those people don't laugh because. Boring. No, no. Like, we're all looking for people we connect with, you know? Yeah, you don't connect with.

Oh my gosh. Isn't that so true? I don't know why. Okay, this is coming up for me, but I just have to tell you because I'm laug that you dropped the F bomb. And I'm like, you just roll on with it because it's you. I went to a Post Malone concert last week, and it was Post Malone at a rodeo, okay? And so he gets up there and he's just like, he's full on posty and every other word's the F bomb and like it's a thing. But he gets up and he apologizes to the women and the children in the audience, like, I'm so sorry that I like use the F bomb a lot. But then the next sentence is like, how are you effing doing? You know? And he goes on, but he's. He's magnetic in such a great way. But then you're right. He'll. He'll repel who he needs to repel. But that's the beauty in the whole thing. I say the same thing even about the boutique hub. There's things that you may love about me, there's things you may really hate about me, and that's fine. But I'm going to be true to, like, what I think is right for the community and the direction that we're going. And I'll apologize when I'm off, but it doesn't mean I'm going to make everybody happy all the time. And I wish more people could see that, that it's okay to be a little bit repelling when you need to.

Yeah. And you can make space, which you're really excellent at, I'll be honest. And you can make space for people who disagree with you to feel safe and heard and understood while there's still disagreement. And this is something too, that I think in. In community building in general, I allow people to talk politics and people are like, oh, no. No politics, no religion. I'm like, well, how are you going to learn? Like, I listen. I grew up in Washington D.C. i'm a liberal gay guy living in LA. A lot of my clients are wildly conservative people. They love guns, all these things. My. I walk in. I walk through life, though, listening. I don't judge people for who they are. And that's how I was raised. And I'm grateful for my parents for that. If I. If we don't have the same political views. I've never demonized a person for their political views. I ask questions and if they're. Because we're so used to going, oh, no, this liberal person, conservative persons in the room. I asked. I asked on a live. And it was an amazing conversation that ended up going for three hours. It was after school shooting. And I said, I don't understand guns. Can you guys can. Those of you that do. And I always say, listen, guys, we can disagree in here, but you have to be respectful. Turn to your spouse and say, eric's an a hole. But don't, like, you know, don't. Let's have a nice conversation here. So many. I learned so much.

This is so fascinating.

Yeah, it's so powerful. And I sold like $30,000 on my life. I was like, tell me about the gun. There's a bracelet.

Okay, you have to tell me what was the feedback after the live. I'm so fascinated that you did that. We've lost the art of that in a society today.

It's really sad.

It is.

People in the group went and met in person, really argue and talk and become friends. So I, I do things, my style of community and live selling. I go live a lot because I like it. I'm much more community oriented. My attitude is always process over product. So if I do, I spend a lot of time watering the community because I get joy out of that.

Yeah.

So I never am worried about the numbers because if it sells, sells, you know, the product will sell or it doesn't. But I make sure everybody has a wonderful time. And so they keep showing up hard, you know, I mean, we have, we have. I have over 150 people in our community that have spent over $250,000 each over the last four years. You know, I mean, and that's. That. That isn't because the product is so good. I love the jewelry, but it's because we have become part of their lives and they become part of ours in a way that we all really, really enjoy. So that is 100% a byproduct of community and building community and allowing people to be who they are. And I always say, I'm like, listen, you guys like to watch me. I'm a kook, you know, I want you guys to be yourselves in your way. Yeah, you're not on camera. But it's important that, like, people have a place. We all. Life is so hard also, like, just come and hang and have fun, you know, like, we all have our struggles. We all have our pets that are sick or, you know, spouse, you know, crap that's going on. And it really is such a great business building, you know, aspect.

Yeah. I always think that, you know, profit will follow energy. And so to your point, like, it's not about the product necessarily, but it's about the space that you're creating and the relationships that you're building and remaining top of mind for people. And I mean, I could say this to boutiques all day long, but hopefully there's some wholesale brands listening as well. And no, this is also the key to being a wholesale business is creating that space for people. So wildly impactful conversation. I have to go back to the political thing, though, for a minute. Just because we're in an election year, what advice would you give to others who are like, huh, how should I handle this if I want to sell, let's say, political merch on one side or the other, what tips would you give people for handing handling some of those conversations in their own community?

I think if you're going to sell pro Trump stuff, you should probably sell pro Biden stuff. Too, because it doesn't ostracize people in your, in your community. I would encourage people to embrace the reality that who you vote for doesn't mean shit in terms of who a person is. Yeah, I know people. I mean, I'm. I'm in California. Some of the most racist people that I know are very liberal. And I'm saying. I'm pointing that out because I know conservatives are called racist a lot these days. No, stop. Stop obliterating people because they voted for Trump or Biden. It's bullshit. Everyone has their worldviews and everyone has their, Their, Their own life. I. Living in a city in California. If you live in a small town in Alabama and you're Evangelical Christian, your needs are different than mine, and that's okay. That doesn't mean we can't enjoy each other and learn from each other and have so much fun. I see it in my community, like, when my dog was sick, there's a lady, and she is as different as I in terms of politics as could be and life as could be. That woman knew a vet in California who saved my dog's life. And I get emotional thinking about it now, and I didn't know her that well then, you know, I mean, I cannot stand. And this is something I do get on a soapbox about. I can't stand people that preach, love each other, da, da, da. And then they're exclusionary, you know. No, don't be that. Like, open your own heart and mind, you know, like, let people surprise you.

Yeah.

Because at the end of the day, the real thing with politics is it doesn't really matter. Just go vote and let. And I don't mean politics don't matter. I mean, who you vote for and all that stuff and what your political views, that's a personal thing for each individual person. You shouldn't worry about what another person's doing or thinking, you know, you really shouldn't. It doesn't. It doesn't really affect you. So let them have their moment. But I also, as a provocative person, I'm like, if you want to put. If you want to sell political stuff, you should be prepared, though, that if your feeling is, I don't want people that think differently than me to be part of my shopping community. You're. You're annihilating a part of your customer. And you'd be surprised. You'd be surprised. You may think, you know, Eric, you know, you may think like, goofy little gay guy living in San Francisco or something. Some. Some customer of yours. May be super liberal, that person might be red as red and you don't know and like then all of a sudden you lose that person. So I would say be honest about who you are and who you are.

But kindly have you ever wondered if.

Someone else in business is going through the exact same thing you are right now? Whether it's an obstacle to overcome or a new opportunity, you aren't sure if you should pursue pursue or not. Or maybe just some of those same questions about man, am I really getting the most out of my inventory or my Facebook ads or my team? How can I do business just a little bit better and enjoy life just a little bit more?

Well, those are a lot of the.

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Yeah, well, and going back to what you said earlier, be curious. Be curious. I think that's the key to all of this is just to be curious. I love that you said I. You know, I'm not going to exclude people just because they think differently than I do. Like there's an opportunity to learn from one another. If we could somehow Just bring that art back of asking questions. I'm a. I'm a product of, you know, I grew up believing one thing, working for a political party, mind you, my entire college experience, and then switching viewpoints as an adult, like, it can happen. Change can happen. But you have to be curious enough to ask the questions of, like, okay, what does this really mean for me? What do I really believe?

A prime example of that is, so I'm an open book. I'm a gay guy. I've now said that like 10 times on here. I don't know why, but I have a lot of clients that are from area that just never knew gay people, never knew a gay person. And in all honesty, I'm really grateful because I'm just at that age where it was like, okay, right when I was young enough, when I went to college, it was five or six years after what happened to Matthew Shepard and Laramie. That changed everything for all of us. So I cannot tell you. Hundreds of times I have had people DM me and say, you know, I always was. I'm embarrassed to tell you this, but I feel the need to. Like, I was uncomfortable with gay people. I thought they were bad. I thought the lifestyle was really disgusting. You have changed. Like, I. I was ignorant to it, and I got to know you and I love you. Like, we have and I. And we talk and they realize, oh, a person's a person. And, you know, they didn't need to share that with me. But I learned, wow, just by all of us women, I mean, just by being public and being walking through life as we are with kindness is world changing. It is truly, you know, and I learned a lot from that. I mean, it really humbled me to see the effect that me just going live, being goofy had profound effect on people. And we all have that. We all have that. We have to respect the power of that.

That is so true. Everybody has something in that regard. But wow, I mean, what a product of building a community and building a safe place where people are, you know, comfortable to express that with you. I just think that's incredible. Making huge impacts along the way. That's incredible. So let's take community one step further. So we know it's critical to build a community, but something else that you've done really well is community over competition. So not only have you built a safe space for your customers, but people in the industry who maybe even sell similar things as you, your competitors, you're in community with them. Talk to me about that experience and how you've gotten to that point as well.

Yeah. I mentioned my friend.

Absolutely.

My best friend in the boutique cup, for sure, but one of my best friends who we've only known one another. We've known each other for less than a year, but we very, very quickly became close as Reagan Winslow from the Roaming Buffalo. We connected from a post where we were both. We shared a view. Someone was posting about, I can't believe this product is at Lowe's now. And we both were like, it doesn't matter. You know, da, da, da. We argued with this. With this lady. We realized that we saw things the same way. And we were both. We both happened to be at market last June.

Yeah.

We connected, became friends really quickly. And it's been. For us, I can only speak for me, it's been, you know, really life changing for me to have her in my life. Because I think that when you start to be. When the perception of you is that you're successful doesn't even mean you are. But if the perception is, it's very lonely because that has an effect on people, a really toxic effect on people. And that is part of our culture, the greater culture of. Of being human these days. And I think that with Reagan. Reagan and I both sell a lot of Native. We probably are the two biggest Native American jewelry sellers in the United States. And we both sell it right. And we both sell a lot. And we both have gotten to a point where if something. If I have, like, a $20,000 necklace that's not doing well for me, I send her the picture. If she can sell it, she can have it. I don't care. I mean, like, we're really, really close. If I'm having a really bad day, I have this friend who understands intimately what my stresses are because she has them, too in her business. It is so fulfilling. And there's no ego, you know, I mean, the biggest destroyer of business, in my opinion, is ego.

Yes.

And you can be. And I'm grateful for this. I have a lot of negative aspects to who I am and my personality that I struggle with. I have never been an envious person. I've never been a greedy person. I've never been a jealous person. And as I've gotten older, I'm really grateful for that because I see the torture people put themselves through wanting things from that other people have. Yeah. And I'm not scarcity mindset at all. So when I found people like Reagan to connect with, who share those sort of viewpoints with me, oh, my God. I mean, it's Been such a. It's been such a. It's enriched my life so much. And our businesses have grown in. Like, our businesses are growing because of the work we're doing. But there is an aspect to it. It's like a reality show. It's like, oh, my friend Rachel jumps on my live. She says, hi. People ask what she does. I say her business name. Yeah, I had a client who wanted, you know, she has a jewelry line and she did this cow thing, and it's really cute, but she's a western store. I'm not. I'm not a western brand. So I had a person say, oh, Eric, because I sold this native American piece at a cow on it. Do you have more of those? I said, no, but you know what? My friend Reagan and I said, guys, can you tag Reagan Someone tag Reagan get her ass on here.

Yeah.

And she got us. And she was like, oh, have I been summoned? And I was like, reagan, do you still have those tacky cows? And she was like, you mean my best selling cow line? Yes. And, you know, we tease each other and then that. And then, you know, she got. I guess she got some customers from it. I don't give a shit, because none of my business. All I know is my community has been enriched having her in it. And it makes me emotional even thinking about it. Like, I feel I'm not alone on this path. And I have had so many fallings out with big boutiques that I've worked with because I approached our relationship incorrectly. Because I wanted that and they wanted my product and they wanted money, which is, again, no harm, no foul. But we were. I thought we were friends. We were not friends. I was a, you know, an artery to the. To their business, which, again, is okay. But I was hungry for someone who. And then, of course, because we don't view things the same way they think, why is Eric being so nice? He must be looking to steal something from us. He must be looking to control our business, Something like that. And it created a lot of pain for me. And I was like, I'm never going to work with a boutique again after the last time that happened. But then I realized, because I had a lot of. This is in one of my learning phases. You need to find people. You need to cultivate a healthy mindset. And then you need to find people that share it. And then, oh, my God, what a wonderful relationship. It enriches your life.

Yeah.

You know, because competition's not real. That's something in our head.

Yeah.

You know, that's the reality, like low level thinkers compete in that dirty way. Yeah. High level people collaborate. And that's the truth.

You know, it's funny, even when I feel like our industry is being wonky like it is right now, I feel like that's almost a. It's like a microscope for the true way people think and believe. And you start to see that, like more unhealthy competition starts to rise versus the really beautiful, like, enriching type that you're like, that you're speaking of. And when you think about yours and Reagan's relationship, it's probably grown both of your businesses because you're creating an energy that people want to share in.

Yes, yes. I mean, and I had mentioned before I posted it in the Hub, actually, because it was so impactful. I have another really close friend and she. When my partner's husband had died, or husband, that would be me, when my partner's father had passed away, we all went down to Brazil and she dropped everything to go down. I. We met in Miami and I hadn't told anybody what had happened. And I went live at the Ritz and I cried. And she jumped on the live and she's like, I'm almost there, Eric. I'm almost at the Ritz. I mean, it was such a hard time, our community, to see us as real people and to see the support we got from her. My numbers didn't go down. I don't know if her numbers went up again, because I don't give a shit. It's none of my business. But what I do know is in the, in the greater cast of characters in my life, the more I share them, the more I see it, the better my business does do. And the more it grows because it attracts people. People don't want to see you, you know. Oh, yet again, this boutique is copying me. Oh, well. Oh, who gives a shit? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They all, they all, they all do that. Just like, let it, you know, they don't. But customers don't care because customers either are just there for product, but they want to see you, like, happy. They want to see, you know, something you can. I'm. Listen, I'm provocative. I love talking about the tea, but I do it in a way that's fun and funny, not in a way that's like, oh, my God. Yeah. How dare that. No. You know, and that's. That's the thing is it does, like, when you have this, like, worldview that is positive.

Yeah.

That's. That grows your community because people want to. People Want to be in that?

Yeah. It's magnetic. Absolutely. This is so good. This conversation has been so good, man. If anyone doesn't take anything away from this, like, build a community and don't be scared to be who you are. The other thing I have to mention, because I know how you and Reagan met, it was in a post in the Hub. So let me just call this out. There was a post in the Hub where you guys were disagreeing with somebody. And I really appreciate the fact that from that experience, the two of you met and, you know, saw. Saw eye to eye and stuck together and you didn't come back and go, oh, everyone in the Hub thinks this. It's the Hub's fault. I'm going to leave the Hub. Because sometimes that happens and people will say, oh, the Hub's just a bunch of mean girls because they think that they, you know, it's this group of people that think differently than I do. But rather than place blame, you were just like, agree to disagree. But guess what? I made a friend out of the deal.

Thank you for that. Well, and I think I was thinking this because you had made a post about, like, posting and authenticity and stuff recently, and it made me think. And back to the point that I made originally about being magnetic. Those people don't belong in the Hub. I mean, at the end of the day, the people who leave, they don't. And it's different because you guys offer. I mean, what's so great about the Hub is you guys do you offer training and all these things that people need to be doing that they're not. Like on financial literacy, like we talked about knowing your damn numbers. I mean, like, literally the most basic of basic shit you need to know. Yeah. So that you don't have panic attacks every night. So there's all that stuff. And if people just want to come in and do those trainings, that's awesome. And that's all they need to be. But if you're going to engage in the community, you have to do so with a little bit of. Of humility, because people aren't going to agree with. And here's the other thing. Everything that I'm talking to you about, I think the core of it will is true for everybody. But like me cursing on a live. Doesn't. Doesn't that may not be work for other people because that's not authentic to them. Everyone. There are different ways to skin a cat.

Yeah.

And you can learn from it and you can disagree with me or whomever. I. I'm Not. But this is the thing about ego. I'm not affronted by people disagreeing with me. That's the other thing. And I mean, you've seen also, I come. I will come in like a wrecking ball if I think someone's doing something screwed up. There was one post in the Hub where I came out and I said, this is predatory and this person should be. This person should put a sock in it. I mean, like, I'll. I'll say, shit. You know, I come listen. I do create some good content while I'm having, like, a drink on the couch, watching cartoons. I'm like, while I'm watching Pokemon, I better engage in this post in the Hub.

Oh, my gosh. Well, it makes people think. And at the end of the day, that is the key to the success, right? Is being curious and thinking and challenging. Why do you think the way that you do? And hopefully everybody leaves a little bit smarter, right? A little bit better on the other side, even if it can't be an echo chamber of the same thing. Right? And it gets chamber for the things I'm saying. Like, there's. There's value in having quality discussion. For sure.

I agree. And. And to that point, too, Reagan and I talk about this a bunch. You know, I'm at a certain point in my career. Reagan is at a certain point in her. She's like one of the biggest Western boutiques in the US When I share numbers of things, it is not because someone should look at those numbers to. To TJ Maxx. I'm a joke, right? Maybe like, oh, my own $1 cares. It's to show because I like to. When something really works for me. Those are a lot of posts I like to do in the Hub is. And explain why. Yeah, these are the things I realize that worked. And then I'll use those numbers to. And I try to do it in a way to, like, inspire. Like, wow, this was 10 times what I expected it to do. You know, there are people in every community that only show up to say, I'm so successful and I'm doing so well. And I'm here to say I know all those people that say that shit. And I know a lot of those people aren't paying their damn vendor bills. And it hurts people because they go, well, I'm a fit. Because someone will say, I'm really struggling this month, guys, can someone help me? Is anybody else struggling? And then all of a sudden, some ex Lularoe person will swing in and be like, well, I just made A million dollars this week. I don't know what's wrong with you. I guess you should quit. And I'm there and I'm like, what the hell is this? It's. Don't feel bad. Don't look at other people and that shit. Ignore that stuff. Every. We all should ignore that stuff. But don't look at that stuff and internalize it. We are all where we were. I just said I did $10,000 my first year in business. I don't know where in the United States you can survive on that. Not like under the 405 maybe, I don't know. But we all have to understand that. And while I will post. This really worked well for me earlier. Like two days ago, I had a. I had a collection that blew out. I had 95% sell through. The margins were like 7x yesterday. The collection I was the most excited for, I sold one piece. It was just like, I mean, it's just like total nosedive. And I was like, well. And I didn't go, guys, you weren't buying it. In my mind, I went, well, son of a bitch, I love that line. I'm going to wear it. It's beautiful. You don't like scarabs? Well, fine, but I mean, we all have that.

We all have that. Yeah.

You know, and you got to laugh about it later or you know, or you do what a lot of people in the pub do in the hub do. How do I show this again in a month or a week and make it new or how do I try something new? You get curious about what worked and what didn't work and you learn for yourself. You don't beat yourself up. You don't see another person doing a million dollars a month and go, well, I guess I'm a failure because I'm not selling a million dollars a month out of my. The boutique attached to my salon. No, I mean, like, we're all doing different things with different goals. It's all okay.

Yeah. Success is different for every single person. I love that and I love the curiosity and all of it. Okay. You and I could go all day, so let's do this lightning round.

Okay, cool.

I give you two hours back in your day. Tomorrow you get two bonus hours. What do you do with those two hours that are income generating activities I get live? Could have called that one perfect.

Yeah, There you go.

What is the best advice someone's given you that always sticks with you?

Um, the best advice that someone's given that always sticks with me. It's Dr. Seuss. Be who you are. What is that, what is that phrase? Be who you are. And whatever you feel. Because those who mind don't matter. And those who matter don't mind.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know what the first part of that is.

I know what you're.

I don't know. But all I know that last part. Be who you are. Because. And, and because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. That is the most important advice I've ever gotten. Thank you, doctor.

I think you need to go post that in the hub today. I think that's really good.

Okay.

Hardest lesson you've learned.

Knowing that a really cordial business relationship is not a friendship necessarily.

Yeah.

No. Knowing who. Knowing who your real friends are and being honest with yourself about that I think is the best lesson. Hardest lesson and hardest one lesson that I have. And the best.

Yeah, yeah. So true. Okay, two part question. What is a metric that you live by? Like, you have to. This is the metric for me. And what's a metric that you feel like you should probably know more about, but you don't yet?

The one that I live by right now is my margin on my margins. And the one that I need to know better, I need to be better about is my sell through, my sell through rate. Because I'll know really well when I'm selling things. Okay. So I'm forexing this and 2xing this and I. This is 10x, whatever.

Yeah.

I'm always on top of that. And I'll realize, like, I'll have a day where I'm like, wow, I made so much more money than I thought in terms of profit. Because I know my profit. That's the whole thing with the margins. I know my profit. I don't worry about revenue.

Yeah.

Because I've had months where I've made in revenue a third of what I wanted to and I made twice what I expected to had I hit my goal, you know, because I was focusing on the margin and focus, I was putting the profit first. I mean, it's really important. But sell through for me is something I forget about sometimes. And that is such an important thing for all of us to know A. In terms of what we're going to buy next or what we're going to produce next. But also your margin doesn't mean diddly if without, without your sell through. I mean, if you're 10 Xing something and you have 100 units and you sell one.

That's right.

We still have 100 sitting over here. I mean, you got it. You re. I really need to know that one better. Yeah.

So good. Such a good point. Okay, last one. Best advice for retailers listening.

Your ego is not your amigo. That's so tacky. But please, for the love of God, this is the most important thing I've learned. The most important thing I've learned. Loving yourself, having confidence. I know who I am. I have total confidence in who I am, and I walk through life with that. And to insecure people, it comes off as ego. But who I am, what I do, exists completely irrespective of everybody else. I know I'm super smart. I know I am. That doesn't mean other. Like Ashley Alderson isn't wildly brilliant in her own way and I'm in my own way. They are completely irrespective of each other. Allow yourself to be proud of who you are and what you've accomplished without comparing yourself to anybody else, because that's all in our heads. And the main part of that is you can think. It's so. It's one of those things where you can think, you know what another person's thinking. But at the end of the day, even if, like, you're like, oh, I think that person's mad at me, and that's what you're thinking, you will never understand the deep emotional intricacies of why. So stop trying to get in other people's heads. Stop trying to think you know everything about other people. Stop trying to character miscarriage. Don't characterize other people. Stop saying, that's a bad person. That's a. This. This is a successful person. Focus on yourself, and do not allow your ego to poison your ability to have really robust business relationships, because you never know when you're going to need a friend. You never know when you're going to need one of these people that you're choosing to have this toxic relationship with. So let your ego go. Let it go.

So good. Your Diet Coke's my Diet Coke, and they're. I'm going to look at Diet Coke differently now. That's incredible. That's really good advice. I'm really glad you shared that. All right, last question. So what I gather from all the things that you're saying, right, the jewelry is the jewelry. But what's more important to you and what's more important to me ultimately is it's the life that we're living. It's the relationships. It's all the things outside of the jewelry, right? So fast forward 20, 30 years from now, whatever happens to the brand happens to the brand. And you're sitting there with your family and your friends, and you're on the front porch and you're reflecting, right. And you're talking about this life that you live, the businesses that you had and the businesses that you touched. What's the thing that you want people to remember the most about who you are and the journey that you are on?

That is such an interesting question. Because I am so. I've spent so much time trying to, like, divorce myself from worrying about what other people think about me. But if I think about legacy and not. And in terms of. Because for me, legacy has nothing to do with, like, my accomplishments or accolades.

Yeah.

I want. I would love for people to have had the experience with me of feeling seen. And what I've learned about feeling seen is, is you don't need to talk to the person one on one. You don't need that person to even acknowledge you to feel seen. What I. What I try to do, and I fail a lot at it, but what I try to do is create a space around me where people feel heard and feel heard and acknowledged, you know, or feel safe. So if I can accomplish that, and that's part of. I use the skills that I have, I'm a. I am. I am a good joy designer in terms of, like, I've taken the time to be. To master a trade. Right. And I've mastered it. I use that as the vehicle to accomplish the deeper things I want to do. And that's a big thing. If I can make people feel safe around me and happy, their experience is their experience. It's none of my, none of my business. If somebody doesn't like me, that's none of my business. If somebody thinks I'm an asshole, that's none of my business. But the people who don't feel that way, who feel safe around me, if I can keep. Keep on keeping on doing that, I would. I would be so content and happy just to know that I left this world with in my wake people who felt a little bit at peace. Having me touch their life a little, that would make. That makes me emotional just thinking about it now. So that's what I would hope.

Well, you are on your way. You are doing that. And I know that in the Hub, you're making people feel seen when you show up, and you make me feel seen. So I really appreciate you. Eric, thanks so much for your time today. I was so excited about this podcast. I'm so glad that we had this opportunity, but thanks for the person that you are and thanks for just the way that you show up for our community.

Of course. Well, thank you for the community.

Thanks for listening guys. I hope you took away all kinds of nuggets and new ideas from this week's episode. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a rating and review. We love to hear your feedback and give you a chance to be featured on the show each and every week. For more information on our spirit of community over competition, and to access guest downloads and bonuses and all the resources we talked about on the show, head on over to the boutiquehub.com and join the community.

We'll see you next week.