#623: Mastering Leadership: The Evolution of a Multi-Generational Boot Company

Foreign.

Business can be a lonely game, but it doesn't have to be. Welcome to Boutique Chat where we explore community over competition and how to scale your company with the balance and the happiness that we all seek. We'll hear from product based businesses of all types, retailers, e commerce and wholesale brands, along with industry experts shaping the future of our industry. I'm your host Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat. Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. We get a two for one this week. I love it so much when there gets to be couples on the podcast and this happens to be a couple that I just think the world of. Ryan and Jody, thanks so much for being on the podcast with me today.

We're happy to be here. Ashley, thanks for inviting us.

So our paths crossed in the wildest of ways. We were in this, I'll call it like couples Mastermind week of sorts that we had the opportunity to go on. We didn't know anyone really when we were invited to this event, but we quickly got to know one another. And Eric and I both just had such a great time with the two of you and found that our values were just aligned in so many different ways. And of course we share the western industry. So to just get to share your story today, I'm so excited for what everyone's going to get to listen to.

We too really enjoy getting to know you guys and look forward to more times together and fun things, especially as many markets as you go to get to continue hanging out with you and your get to know your kids.

Yeah, absolutely. So let's get into it. If anyone has not, you know, met the two of you yet or been familiar with, you know, the multiple companies that you guys, multiple brands that you guys operate with. Give me a quick rundown, a little family history of where the companies started and expanded and where you're at today.

Well, I see Brian tossing it over to me, but honestly, he gives a better history than I do. But I'll start. The Rios and Mercedes brand is our parent and that started back in the, in the 1800s, actually in Mexico with the Rios family. And they brought it to the, to the Rio Grande Valley, the border here at the turn of the century. And they were making cowboy boots. First they were making for the Mexican Calvary and then as they moved up here, they started making for the, for the settlers here in the Rio Grande Valley. And it's called Rios of Mercedes because there were two brothers, one who settled in Raymondville, Rios of Raymondville. And Then one who settled here in Mercedes Rios of Mercedes. So that's pretty simplistic way to name the business. But anyway, my dad and my granddad had the opportunity to buy the company in the early 1970s, and thankfully Brian had an interest in it. And when we got married in the late 90s, we moved home and Ryan came to work here and we started the Anderson Bean. Actually, we started that right before you got here. Yeah, the Anderson Bean brand, which we're known for. And that's named after my great grandmother and my great great grandmother's maiden names. So. Sorry. My grandmother and my great grandmother. So Helen Anderson and Macy Bean. And my dad named it for them because he wanted to acknowledge all the work they had done. My family was a ranching family out in West Texas. West Texas, New Mexico line. And, you know, the guys would go out and hunt and have these great cool dogs and get these great bears and all these things, these wonderful things. You know, they show, not show cattle, but the, you know, the bulls that were not just the guys had all the glory. And meanwhile the women were back home at the house taking care of the kids, making sure things were running when the guys were gone. And they just, they didn't get any of that glory. So he wanted to name it that as a little tribute to them. So that. That's our Anderson Bean brand. And that was started in the. In the late 80s. And then. And then once Brian got here, we started the Horsepower and Macy Bean brands. And you can speak more to that because that was your baby. Guys, he's a great speaker. I'm gonna let him.

Yeah. Well, my first big project was we bought the Olathe Boot Company out of Olathe, Kansas in 2001. I started in 1999. And so, yeah, I thought I liked snow and ice and cold weather. I'd like it when we go snow skiing, but not working in it. So, yeah, I moved up to Kansas and in February and had to go. Go through and move everything home. We just built this new factory. So we're officed in the Anderson Bean Olathe factory here in Mercedes, Texas. And so we just built this factory at capacity. So we bought the Olathe brand and business and moved it down here. And that has roots to the old hire boot company that started in 1875 in Olathe. They used to all go up there and Texas cowboys would run cattle up there and sell them in the stockyards and they go out to Olathe and get some higher boots. And so they used to just kind of call it the old lake of Boots. And, and so yeah, until just a few years ago higher had been defunct name that kind of went out. But anyway, they're back. But yeah, so we've got domestically we make Rio Sub, Mercedes and then Anderson Bean and Olathe in this factory. And then yeah, in, in 2005 we started. That was really the boom of the square toe business for us. So we were kind of one of the first ones on the scene. We were the first one on the scene making a wide square toe and we saw a lot of other people start and kind of knock us off and, and so said, you know what, we can do it better than you can. So we went down to Mexico, down to Leon, and started a horsepower brand. Very similar styling, just a little bit more basic construction, better price point. And then we, a few years later we started the Macy Bean brand. So Macy Beam and Horsepower are the two brands we built down in Mexico. And then we have kids line that follow as well. So that's the family of brands.

That's the family of brand. See daddy do a much better job. I could listen to him talk all day.

Well, I laugh because I think through like the boots that are in my husband and I's closet and I'm pretty sure we've got one of each. Literally. Like my husband's an old bareback rider, so of course he's got some of the old elite boots, you know, the whole, the whole deal with the, the heel and everything. So yeah, just thinking about all that family history and just like generational change and keeping the traditions. Talk to me about like making a multi generational business. I'm sure Jodi, the, the lessons and stories your family has and Ryan, you stepping in and taking over, how does your family maintain, you know, its relationships and keep all of that heritage in history as those changes take place?

It is a piece of cake. No, I mean, I'll, I'll start off with, I mean, the night. The nice thing is, is that Jody grew up with it and so she, she knew the sacrifices. She saw the sacrifices that her dad put in. I mean the, the 80s and 90s, especially the 80s, it was not an easy time to keep a business open down here in the Rio Grande Valley. So we're right along the border of Mexico and, and we had some freezes. So a lot of our, a lot of our industry down here is farming and ranching and we've got a lot of citrus farming and a lot of vegetable farming and we had some really Devastating freezes in the 80s and the, the savings and loan crisis that went on, I mean it was really hard to get money and financing. And then we had a pesto devaluation across from Mexico which just really hurt our economy down here. And so, you know, the trainer is my father in law. Her dad put in, I mean really hard work and so she, she knew what it took to be in a family business. I grew up in a family business as well. My family's got a chain of auto parts, auto industrial parts stores down here. So you just, you, you, you realize is that it's, it's not all, you know, shiny and pretty. Yeah. And so whenever I joined the company, I mean I. Very similar work ethic to my father in law and we've got a lot in common. But while she was holding the fort down raising kids, I mean I, I was traveling, I was on the road, I was putting in long hours and, and I didn't get a lot of grief for that. You know, she was really supportive and knew that we were building a bigger thing and so that, that part of it is really reassuring. I, I see some of our, you know, my brother in law has come into the business and he's starting a family and thankfully his wife comes from a family business too. But it's, it's a sacrifice to be a part of this and I think we both get it. And thankfully our kids are getting to see a lot of that too and have interest in it. But yeah, it's not without the challenges. I mean my brother in law does our finances, she runs all of marketing and yeah, I'm the chief executive officer but I, you know, 25 years here with purchasing and day in out operations and managing bonuses and dividends and when we're gonna, you know, do financial, you know, review our financials each month. I mean there's, there's always challenges.

And so to your point, yes, it's, there's a lot of sacrifices that come with it, but there's also huge blessings when you're doing something you love with people you love. And that's so, that's so fun for me to get to do with Ryan and then for our kids to see that, I mean like any, any family vacation we take is it work is somehow work related and it's always fun and we have a great time. It's just, it's what our family does together. And so I think that's, that's a huge blessing.

Obviously didn't mean to focus on challenging.

No. But yeah, and Another really cool thing is how well and you touched on it, but how well Ryan and my dad get along. Like, I mean, what greater thing is that than to have somebody marry into your family and just, just be absorbed by it and be loved in the same way? So I just, I'm so thankful for that.

I think what's interesting specifically in the western industry, if I, if I think on the retail side of the western industry, you know, the traditional western store in America is at a real turning point where they need to make a generational change. There's a lot of older owners that's going to move to another generation. And that's tricky. And so I'm curious for those who are listening, what advice do you guys have? You know, things that you've done that you would say, hey, this is something that worked for us to maintain relationships and to maintain, maintain boundaries and to maintain some processes that kept our sanity through, you know, through all this growth over time. And what are some things just to watch out for? Like, hey, just. This is something that's off limits.

Yeah. I mean, I think first thing is just be extremely obedient to your father in law.

Okay. So he's only half kidding. But I will have him share when he first got here, I mean, you know, Ryan, he's super dynamic. I got all these great ideas just ready to jump in with both feet. And he got here and my dad has a partner who's the same age and they were set in their ways. And so it took Ryan a while to learn how to bring ideas to the table without just throwing them out there and getting shot down.

Oh, absolutely.

That's. I mean, yes, obedience is part of it, but then you also have to, well, you can you share because it's your experience, but.

Oh yeah, no, I'm fresh out of college. I thought I'd conquer the world and had all these great ideas. I was going to bring these factories new life and new business and all kinds of things. And I'd go to lunch every day with these guys and yeah, it was, I'd throw up an idea and it was, you know, they just shoot it down left and right. And I started realizing that trainer always came at it from a. How are we going to build it? How much is it going to cost? What is the, you know, what's the, the, the inputs? What's the fixed, fixed, you know, leather yields and things. How are we going to do this? And Pat would come at it from a sales and, and you know, how are we going to market it? How are we going to get it to our sales team? How are we going to inventory it? And so it was having to understand the two dynamics of what those, what they needed to see from my, my, my suggestions or ideas. And I, you know, I've since learned that it kind of made me a better salesperson too. But just understanding, respecting the foundation that's been laid I think is also, I mean I talked about keeping a business open in the 80s and 90s is they put a lot of hard work in to give us the opportunity to take this business over. So that level of respect I think is this the starting point and then just trying to refine some of the things that they built and have done. And so, you know, it's, we do a lot of very traditional things in a handmade boot company. But I, you know, we also, you know, they said they'd be rolling over their gray before we ever put a cushion insole in our boots. But we had, we had to change, we had to, we had to improve. I mean, you know, one of the things that Ariat brought to the industry was tennis shoe comfort. And so, you know, having the right approach to approach that with the family members of, you know, this is going to be a little different. We've got to go this route. But I think, I think having a humble attitude of not being the smartest one in the room I think is also, you know, my brother in law is tremendously smart in the finance side of things and but I'm on the leather side of things. And Jody brings a whole different perspective. She sees a lot of stuff that goes on outside the industry. And so even though I've been here for the 25 year, I totally respect them and the great skill set that they bring to them.

Yeah. And just to reiterate so to be respectful of the foundation that you've been offered or been given and then to do your homework before you jump in with these, which Ryan's great at doing homework now like before he presents anything, he looks at it this way, that way, the other and he can always give like a really well presented argument.

Now so would you consider that servant leadership like it sounds, as I'm hearing both of you speak and I hear like all the different angles your family brings to the table and the humidity, humility that's involved. It's really like you being a servant in order to lead. It's not you leading from the front and telling everyone what we're going to do, but it's really leading from behind. Would you Agree with that.

I think Ryan's an excellent example of servant leadership, like all the time. And was it. He's real good about learning too. And so he just took us to a thing and the owner of the Savannah Bananas, Jesse Cole, I think one of the things he said is that your employees don't work for you, you work for them. And Ryan does that. He works for, for this company and these employees. And he's a great example of how to do it well and, and you know, and in a glorifying way. Done. I mean that's, that's what we're here for.

We've just been the good shepherd. I heard a good shepherd humbly the other day, a sermon and was talking about the good shepherd is always out in front leading his sheep. But if he just keeps walking and walking and doesn't in the middle of the sheep, the sheep won't trust him and know him. And so you, you've got to lead from, from, but you've also got to be in the sheep. You've got to smell like the sheep. You've got to be in, in the middle of it. And then the shepherd also sometimes has to push from behind.

Yeah.

And so I think there's, there's all, there's different approaches to leadership. And sometimes you need to be the, the strong CEO out in front, and sometimes you need to be on the ground and at the market selling and working. And then sometimes you need to be behind pushing. And so I think there's, there's different, different times for different types of leadership too. Absolutely. It's a, you know, our number one core value is we're going to honor God and all that we do. And I mean, we, you know, the greatest example of God is Jesus that came, came down to teach us how to live and love and serve. And so, yeah, he obviously was, was the epitome of a servant leader.

So. Good. Well, I have this theory, and you're speaking right to this theory that I have about the idea that as a leader, most leaders start as entrepreneurs in this business. Let's say a leader in business starts as an entrepreneur. But in order to be successful, you can't just stay an entrepreneur forever. You can't just stay a hustler forever. You have to transition and be a true CEO of your business as well. And those are two very different things. As I have gotten to know the two of you, I see those qualities in you. It's not just about chasing what's next or doing things on a whim or just Being better today than you were yesterday. But you guys are so well thought out when it comes to again, your core values, long term vision, systems, processes, strategy, like real leadership. What do you think you've learned the difference between being an entrepreneur and being a CEO would be? And how do you think those in your industry or the retailers that you work with can also learn some of those same lessons of how to be not just an entrepreneur, but a true CEO? What does that mean?

Yeah, I mean one of the core values is focused on healthy growth and creativity. And I think the healthy growth side of things is really important to us. I mean, obviously we've been around for a long time, our brands and then, you know, my father in law doing this for 50 years, been doing this for 25 together. And we don't plan to go anywhere. And we want our kids to come into the business. And so I think it's having that, you know, that March approach is like we're, let's, we're going to do this methodically, we're going to do this well. We're going to build the team, we're going to find the right people to get on the bus. We don't need to go 0 to 60 in a year and a half and double our profits and set ourselves up to, you know, bring in private equity money. And so I think that just a different approach is let's do this right.

Yeah.

And let's do this healthy. And especially, I mean, when people don't buy our boots because they're fast. I mean, they buy them because the quality, I mean, you don't get them fast. I mean, we're 14 months out on delivery for our domestic boots. We need to do things right. And so whenever we, you know, that was one of the things during COVID you know, we picked up a lot of shelf space and our business just went through the roof. And we came back home and we tried to put in a second shift. We tried to go, you know, we need to hire 50, 60 people. We hired a new human resource director. We've got to find people, we've got to find bodies. And we started churning out junk. I mean, we were rejecting booths left and right, we were canceling things. We, I mean it was, it was really a lesson to go, but slow it down, focus on quality. Let's not go too fast. And I mean, I think that's the approach that is, is sometimes not always taken from, from an entrepreneur. They want to go to the, you know, shoot to the moon and have somebody swoop in and buy them for, you know, 10 times, you know, so it's. I don't know. Is that.

No, I think so. Yeah. We're in it for the long haul, so you have to, you have to put systems in place to make that sustainable.

Yeah, I mean, I would just. We did a little. We've got 220 employees here in our Texas factories and over. I think we've got 63 people that have been with us over 10 years. I think we've got 34 that have been with us for 25 years or more. I mean, so we've got people that have been like, it's, it's. You find the right people, you put them in the right place and they thrive. And so building that team is really core. We just said, young lady in our, in our accounting department, celebrate 20 years. And anyway. And just seemed like yesterday, but, you know, you got to find the right pieces for that leadership team.

Yeah. What else does it mean to lead a team like that? What keeps them there? They've been there, but what keeps them there? What is it that you do on a daily basis that makes that possible?

Hmm. You know, that's. I'm gonna say making sure they're in the right spot. I mean, they need to enjoy coming to work every day. And that's one of my. I want to say it's one of my strengths. It's one of my biggest weaknesses as well as a leader is that I think I'm such a good manager, a good leader, that I can always find a spot for somebody in our company.

Interesting.

Sometimes it's caused me to hold on too long. Somebody whenever that really wasn't the right fit. I know you talk about culture. I just listened to your five minute Friday about culture. And sometimes culture is not right. And so I think building that culture and finding the right spot, I mean, the young lady, Amanda, that I was just talking about, I mean, I'd say it if she was here. We had her in customer service for four or five years. She was the worst on the phone. She did not like to talk to customers. But, man, she can do data entry, she can do invoicing. I mean, she can crunch the numbers. And so it took a little while to put her in that right spot. But I really think Amanda loves coming to work every day and she's, she's got a great team over there. And so I, I think that's really important is using that skill set that makes you excited to come to work and thriving.

Yeah. So good. What's been the hardest lesson that the both of you have learned in terms of leadership. What's been a moment where you feel like you got punched in the gut, but, boy, you learned a lot from that moment as a leader.

Yeah. I don't know.

Happens every day. You want the one from this morning?

Let's hear it.

Let's hear it. Oh, man. I. I think the biggest. I don't know about it, but I think a lot of time, I just think we. We put systems in place that we think are going to continue to work without monitoring and revisiting.

Yeah.

And. And having that. Okay, we need to go back and see how we're handling cancellations or credits or how are we service. We said we were going to service this customer a certain way. I told the market that this is the way it was going to be. I came back home and rallied the troops and said, this is what we're going to do. This is how we're going to do it. And then six months later, we're not doing it anymore, and you get called to the carpet from that customer. And so that's one of the ones that's fresh on my mind because, you know, if I'm going to make a promise and then I'm going to put our team in motion to do it, I can't just step away from it. I need to continue to lead and make sure we're getting those things done. So. So I've probably got 15 more I can come up with quick.

I think that's a good one. And, you know, what's interesting is I heard so many stores during COVID especially, I think that was really a ripe time for people where they were forced to go back and to revisit the systems and processes that they once were a part of but now have. You know, they're trying to delegate and elevate and truly be a CEO and a leader, and they've stepped away from those things. And when they got back into the weeds a little bit more, they were like, oh, we have so much opportunity to optimize and to work a lot smarter versus a lot harder. And so that's. That's a humbling fact of leadership is having to be forced back into those situations.

No, no, you're right. And that's. That's. There's. There's. Again, you don't want to be out in front. You've got to get in the middle, and you got to get in the sheep in the middle of the sheep sometimes. And it's a good Reminder. Sometimes you need that punch in the gut to go, yeah, okay, time to get back in the. Get my hands dirty.

Right? So something that you talked about that you guys are really great at is innovation. So how do you balance your mindset and mantra of like, steady Eddie, knowing this is what we do really well, but also you want to be the ones who are out front innovating and leading, like you said, with the square toes. What is the balance of your ability to take risk and innovate with also just really maintaining who you are as a company?

Well, I hope you'll speak to it, but I think the way we know what's next or the way we learn what should be next is from our retailers. So we mostly sell to small mom and pop shops. And so the way our domestic brands work are they come and design what they want specifically for their store. And so they say, hey, we've got these rodeo kids coming in. They keep asking for bright, electric blue, whatever. And so can we draw something up like that? And so we start from there. And you can share more about this because you can do doing it so long with working with the retailers. But. But anyway, that. That's where we learn what's. What's coming around the bin is from. From these small shops. And. And then we are able to make, you know, something a unique product for them. It's ordered just for their store so they can go sell it, get great margins. Nobody can price shop them online. You know, the guy down the street isn't going to have it. And so. So anyway, it's. It makes us, I hope, a great partner to them. Definitely makes. Makes them a great partner to us because we're learning from them what's popular and what, you know, what. What is next.

So nailed it. That's. I mean, I. I've always thought I was a pretty poor listener. And we had this guy come into a. He was writing this book, and after he did an interview, he said, I just realized the secret to your business. You're a great listener. And I was like, huh?

I wasn't there for that.

I was like, Jody's like, wait a minute, wait.

He goes. He goes, you guys are always listening to what your customer's asking for. And so that's, you know, our leather suppliers will come and they'll say, like, I need to meet with your design team and how are we going to develop new stuff? And it's like, well, we've got 750 people, you know, retailers that are our design team. And so that's One of the great things about you know, markets is going with fresh new leathers and trying to show things quickly and we, you know, hit the market quick. I mean the 14 month delivery really hampered that ability. But getting new samples out there, getting new leather developments and new trope profiles and I mean one of the, you know, the things is being on again on the ground floor. I mean like the WRCA finals, Working Ranch Cowboy Association, Amarillo. If you guys have never been to that, it is a hoot. But those are the, those are the sure enough working cowboys and they've got a whole exhibit there. I mean the whole exhibit hall is handmade stuff. So inmate saddles, bits, stirrups, boots, I mean hats and so it's not cheap stuff, it's good stuff. And so but those guys are going to go have custom made what they can't find on the shelf or what they're not what they don't, you know, they don't want what's maybe at the store on the shelf, they go get it custom made and so you see where trends are made there. And so it's watching and learning the real cowboys and if you can outfit those guys then you can outfit anybody. And, and so you know, it's just that's, you know, you know the core of our business. Our customer in domestic side is cutting horse is raining horse is rain, cow horse guys. And if you can build a boot good enough for them then you go do the fun styles and stuff. So it starts with that integrity inside. Yeah, I mean she's also really good at design stuff. So I don't, I. It's one thing is to take and listen to our customers but she can put a mean stitch pattern together and then she can put color combinations and sightseam and trim. And we've got, we've got a few retailers that are really good at it and so you kind of watch and learn what they're doing. And so it's one thing to have the platform, it's another thing to be able to put color combinations together.

One, like I was saying, I don't know if that was clear but our domestic. So the stuff we build here in the States, that's made order for each retailer. Our stuff that we make in Mexico. So our horsepower and Macy bean lines, that stuff that we put together and we stock and so that's available for people to buy, you know, as is. And um, so that's a sweet compliment. Thank you.

Are you ready to participate in Pink Friday 2024? This is your Official invitation. I hope you join us to shop small first and promote your store. Whether you're online or you have a beautiful brick and mortar that you want to really tell your story about. Why to shop small first this holiday season, November 22, 2024, is the Friday before Black Friday. And annually, every single year on Pink Friday, we join together to promote this idea of shopping before Black Friday, before the big box stores. You know, I love small Business Saturday, and I just hate that it comes after Black Friday. It's an afterthought. That's why Pink Friday again, is always the weekend before Black Friday. So join us, sign up to promote your store to be on our Shop Small first map and receive all of the ideas, toolkits, stickers, window clings, graphics, anything you can use to set up an event in your unity or to promote your online business on Pink Friday, November 22, 2024. Link is in the show notes. Be sure to sign up. It's completely free to promote your business on Pink Friday. So I've got a big question for you both as you're thinking about trends that are coming and innovating. How much does Beyonce impact your business this year?

I mean, we'll see. We love it. The more people in cowboy boots, the better. So we're happy see where this trend takes us. You know, Brian shares all the time that it's great to get somebody who probably wouldn't have worn boots into them. And then, you know, they start with the basic and maybe enjoy it, so they move up to, you know, something a little nicer and eventually maybe they're in our boots. So, yeah, anyway, I'm here for it.

No, I mean, I think that my hope is, is that the draw will be what comes with the, with the western industry. And that's a lot of its integrity and doing things the right way and, you know, remembering how grandpa did it or dad did it. And there's the, you know, that draw, hopefully, is when you put your boots or your hat on, you feel good, you feel tough, you feel like the west, like you can go, go do something that maybe you didn't think you could do before. And, and, you know, hopefully that's what people will do. I mean, that was, you know, a lot of the, the tacobus business model was getting people who were in cities in New York or Nashville or Houston into cowboy boots. And, and I think people put on their boots and go, wow, I like the way this feels. I remember how granddad looked in his boots. And hopefully they want to embrace all that comes with that western lifestyle.

Yeah, I love that. I couldn't agree more. You know what's interesting, I love, you know, you guys are in Texas, you're in the heart of cowboy country. And I know I've shared this with you personally, but growing up on a ranch, being, you know, deeply ingrained in that lifestyle myself, but now living in a state that it's not that common, I commonly, my golf friends, right. Are not rodeo people, but my golf friends will send me pictures of their outfits of cowboy boots and the most God awful cowboy hats. I hope they're not listening, but I'm telling you, they're really ugly and they're like, what do you think? Like, I'm dressed like you and I'm like, oh no you're not. But it's really cool that you want to be. And something that's interesting about the western way of life is I know I was kind of raised with this idea of like, what's real versus what's a wannabe. And I think if there's ever been a lesson I've learned from this whole Beyonce movement is we've got to embrace the wannabe. We've got to embrace the person who wants to be of this culture. Like, what a blessing that is, what an opportunity it is, not just for the product and for the sale, but like you said, Ryan, for the integrity and the culture and the way of life that we represent. Why wouldn't we welcome all of those people with open arms to have an opportunity to be a part of that? So I love that perspective. That's so good. How about this relates to, you know, our motto at the boutique of is community over competition. So how does the western industry also live that motto of not only being more welcoming today, but also collaborating more with one another and allowing a rising tide to lift all ships with, you know, the popularity of Western today.

Yeah, I mean, one of the first things that pops into my mind is how important the Dallas Market center has become for us getting, getting our retailers together on a regular basis. You know, Denver market was good. We had Wesa market in January and one in August. But boy, that market center is such a phenomenal facility. And I think it's really helped bring our retailers, I mean, and we take a lot of pride in our showroom that retailers want to come and hang out and not just for a sandwich or a beer or whatever, the energy in there and hopefully we'll draw it, but we see our retailers where they're actually like working together and helping one of our retailers in Lubbock, sitting with one that's in Shawnee, Oklahoma and helping them style up some boots and they're talking through toe profiles and stuff. And I think we've got a really loyal fan base that buys our boots and we're very selective who we do business with. I mean it's. And so you've got to, you've got to do the right things and be a good partner all the way through. And I think when you get like minded partners together, they start really enjoying being around each other. And I, you brought up the mastermind at the beginning. For probably about 10 years now we've had a group called Masterminds and we brought in some of our better, closer partners for some collaborating and trying to figure out where we need to be going, where things are going in the industry. And so I think there's a little bit more of a common bond in the western industry where people don't feel like they've got to fight it out. But I think that transferred a lot to when you're working hard and running boutiques and doing things the right way, you start running with like minded people. Yeah.

You mentioned this earlier and I'm not sure, I think we maybe were visiting before we started to record, but you said if I can get someone in a pair of boots then there's a better chance they're going to buy a pair of western jeans and then there's a better chance they're going to buy a cowboy hat. Tell me more about that philosophy as well because that's really community over competition as well.

Yeah, I mean I think that the, again going back to the, you know, bringing non western people into it is. It's hard to look good and just put a pair of boots on with a pair of shorts. No, you need to do jeans, you need to do a hat, you need to do a starch and all of a sudden you start wanting to do more of that and really embracing it. But I, I don't know, I'm not sure exactly, exactly where the, hopefully that goes bleeds from retailer to retailer. I mean if you're shopping at a boot barn and don't find what you need, then you're going to go to the local mom and pop and hopefully find some good stuff there too.

And the great thing about the mom and pop stores is that they've got the people there that will help you. This is, this is how you do this, this is how you, how this goes together and that sort of thing. So I, I think that, you know, to your point, the boots, the jeans, they can, they can build on your outfit for you?

Yeah, absolutely. When you look across your most successful mom and pops that you guys serve, what do you see that they have in common and where do you think their business is going next?

Service is key. I mean, I think that's one of the things that you can, you can outdo any, any chain store is typically when you're a mom and pop, you've been there two, three generations, people know you in the community. They. You've obviously built enough trust for them to come back and shop with you. But I, I think, yeah, fitting understanding what the customer's asking for, you know, I love that. I think on your. Your thing is the worst thing you can say is, is there anything you're looking for? You know, that's the easiest. No, it's. No, you've got to go deeper. You got to compliment them, and you've got to build a rapport with that customer and draw them in. And then, you know, then once you sell them one thing, you're going to see them at church, you're going to see them at the restaurant, and they're going to say, hey, Joe, you sold me these boots. They're junk. They're falling apart. You know, I'm never going back to your store. No, you build up inside. You're building a long relationship with your customer base. And I hate to say just with your mom and pops, but I mean, I think that's especially true service side of things. But not being oblivious to. I mean, some of our best retailers have gone to online sales during COVID and it's like another store for them now. So not being oblivious to what's able to grow your business, too. I think that's the. The dynamics of a family business. I mean, one of our favorite retailers up in Kansas City, Niagara's Western store, I mean, they're three, four generations into it. And little David took this family on, took that business online during COVID and it's. It's exploding. They're doing great business with it. We could have easily been rejected and said, no, we're not going to invest the money on it. But I think that's. You've got it. You've got to not be. You got to be open to looking at new ways of approaching business. I mean, point of purchase sales. I was just at our hardware store local. They're still writing out invoices by hand. I mean, I bought a couple packs of batteries and a thing of a WD40. It took her five minutes to write, you know, double a battery. And it's like, come on, let's. Let's get a point first. Oh, man. When a sales system here. Yeah.

Back to respecting that foundation, but then learning and making it better so that you can compete with the big guys.

Yeah.

I mean, that's a real challenge.

There's a real opportunity for Western stores right now. I feel like I have this weird vantage point of kind of being on the fringe of it. But like you said, respecting the foundation of what's been built and that service and that longevity of that brick and mortar experience. But you cannot ignore what is happening online. And. And so maybe you don't want to go full on E commerce, but learn what those brands are doing well with social and digital traffic and maximize that customer. Because like you said, the customer, the cowboy customer. It's not even about, like, I just want this thing, but I want to pay for this thing. Like, I want a high quality thing. I'm willing to pay what it takes to get, you know, a nice hat, a nice pair of boots. They'll spend the money. So we've got to go find those customers wherever they are.

And it's surprising. I mean, yes, not everybody can, you know, initiate a website and everything, but I see some cars. Well, mom and pop selling stuff on Instagram. I mean, they'll post a pair of boots and they'll be, like, taking orders in the comments. I'm like, wow. So anyway, there's lots that can be done without going full throttle.

You bet. All right, are you guys ready for a lightning round? Lightning round question? Yeah, I know you are. I know you both are. You're just, like, gearing up. Okay, I'll start with this one. So the last time I saw the two of you in person, I know you're both big readers, and Ryan, you were reading Atomic Habits. And I hate to admit this, like, I love to read, but I just really fail at finding enough time. So instead of reading the book, after I saw you reading it, I watched the Masterclass version of it. I don't know if you knew he was on Masterclass. I freaking love Masterclass. So now I'm all about James Clear, and I've got his. You sent me his newsletter. You're the one who got me on it. Okay, so I want to know what is the latest habit that you've implemented or improved after you read the book Atomic Habits?

It's. Well, I'm going to say it's reading more. I've been trying to read 10 or 15 minutes every night. It's probably one of the closest ones. 1. Boy, that's a good one. I'm gonna. Yeah, it's gonna. It's breathing. Breeding's been my big thing. Yeah. Is realizing. I mean, I. That Rocking Chair Prophet. I just finished reading that one. I think you're the one that turned us on to the mat, Matthew Kelly. And whenever we were in. Man, I mean, that's just a game changer book. And just like how many more books out there are like this?

Yeah.

That can really give, you know. And so being more dedicated and I've got a stack of books over here. We went to a leadership event. Just some. Some great speakers and anyway, I came home with four or five books and I'm like, man, I can't. It's hard to decide which one I'm going to do. So. Yeah. Just being more consistent on my reading as opposed to just waiting when we're on an event or a trip. Because that's usually when I do most of my reading.

Yeah.

Good.

Jody, how about you? What's. What's a habit you've worked on lately?

Oh, goodness. I. I'm terrible. I'm trying to get.

She hadn't read the book yet. She just got it on. She just got it downloaded. The.

I didn't know about the masterclass. That sounds way better. But I just did get it on the ibooks or whatever you didn't put in the car. I didn't got that.

No. I had to send her. I get the receipts from Apple whenever we get things bought. And I'm like, did you just buy Atomic Habits? And she was like, yeah. I figured that's the only way I'm going to read it is I listened to it. I was like, okay, I've got the book already.

Yeah, Jody. I'm with you, Mar. Same.

This is a good push that she needs to read it now.

Yeah. Gorgeous.

I started and I'm enjoying it. No, I. I really am.

But.

But I am bad. I'm bad at setting time aside. And so I'm trying to get up earlier and make my. My mornings more more relaxed and enjoyable. So we'll see if it turns into a habit.

I hope.

I love that you get that graduating senior stuff behind you. I think life is finished. You bet. Okay, next question. You get two hours back in your day. Wherever it came from, it just came. You get two hours back in your day. You get to work on income generating activity. What do you choose to work on?

Oh, design stuff. That's my favorite. Let's, yeah. To put together new styles for, for the lines that we build down in Mexico. I love that. In fact, that was one of my goals, was to set aside, you know, an hour a day just to work on that, because it's rejuvenating any, Anytime you get to do something creative in the midst of, like, doing all the managerial stuff, to me is what you pay. So that's definitely what I would do. Income.

Income, Jim. Yeah. Because my first thing was I spending more time in deep thought and creativity and spending quiet time, but that's not really income. That probably would end up income. Creativity. Yeah. Mine would probably be styling up boots too. Yeah. I mean, I used to do a lot of it because she was, I just take her stuff home. But I got, I've got 30 or 40 sample skins down there that I haven't even looked through, things that I need to pull over and last and get some stitch tops on. And that's, that's, that's a, that's. I'd show up to market next month and say, make sales on that. Yeah.

Yeah.

And Ryan's crazy good at putting stuff together. And, and the secret, I think, is that he sees so much going through the factory that he's like, oh, that didn't work. Oh, but that really did. And so then he's like, what if I just. So anyway, so he's really great at putting samples together. He's. Yeah. Very talented.

You know, I love that. I think we're gonna have a whole other podcast just on marriage advice. I think that's coming next after I watch the two of you. So buckle up. Buckle up for that. Okay. Best business advice that sticks with you.

Oh, you got stuff written down.

No, I, I, I'm, I'm gonna say that. Figure out what you can be best at. Even though it's not easy. I mean, that's just really one of those things where we've had to carve out niches. I mean, making cowboy boots in the United States of America is not a common thing. Yeah. You've got to really carve out a niche at it. And so it's making sure if it's quality, it's quality. If they're buying it because it's creativity, then we're going to be creativity. If it's buying it for comfort cushion, you know, we got to be comfort cushion if they're buying it because it's, you know, not direct to consumer. It's just making sure that you own some Things in your business world that. That nobody else can say. I'm better at you. Better, better at it than you. But it's not easy.

Yeah, you know, I don't do well.

With the hard question.

I know what hers is.

Do you? What do you think mine's gonna be?

Trust but verify.

Oh, I actually.

Questions. See, I know you're gonna get that done, but did you. She learned that from her dad too.

Yes. He's very good at that. Very good. Now I don't know that this is the best, but it's fresh on my mind because like Brian was saying, we went to that thing out in Midland and I mentioned that Jesse Cole, the Savannah Bananas owner was speaking and one of the things he said is don't just make a customer, make a fan. And I love that. Like, I don't just want customers. I want people to like go home with our product and be like, this is so cool. Let me tell you about it. However, we can do that, whether it's following up through the retailer or on social or whatever, but just not. Not just customers. We want fans. I mean, what a fun thing. So again, don't know if it's the best, but it's a brushes on my mind and I love it.

No, he's. He's really good speaker too. We actually got. That's one of the books that I need to read. He was very dynamic. Removing the friction points from your business is another one.

That's so good. I love that advice.

You know who those guys are? Savannah Bananas.

Yeah. Even me. Even this northerner. I even know what that is. Isn't that amazing?

Oh my gosh.

Okay, last lightning round question. How have you. How have the both of you learned to set boundaries for your family and for your marriage while working in your business?

Well, I'll be curious to see what you say. I don't know that we have them. Really?

I was gonna say there's a lot of bleed over, but.

But again it's. Thankfully it works out so well because like even with our kids, like they. They are involved in the conversations and they know what's going on. And I don't think it's too much. I don't know, honey.

But you're very involved with your kid. Like you're at your kids events. Like, you set boundaries around your time. Like just looking at you from the outside, you set boundaries around your time so that you're present for your family and you set boundaries around your time and activity. So you're present in your marriage and you Protect your marriage as a sacred space. How do you do those two things?

I mean, my first thing is just having good routine. I mean, good. I mean, I, I, making time for morning exercise, morning prayer. I mean, having, making sure your commute is, is spent in prayer and thinking through your day, leaving work at a decent hour. That's one of my big weaknesses, which she made sacrifices for so many years. I'd stay at work till 8, 9 o', clock, she'd be doing all the kids stuff, and I'd really, you know, leave work at 6:30, get home, have a meal together with the family. And we like our evenings together. I mean, yeah, we'll have a cocktail together and talk through the day and, and then we get to travel a lot. And so that gives us a lot of our own time together. I mean, just like the time when we were together. I mean, and that's, I think we get time to play cards together. We get time to talk through work. We get time, you know, to, to, to, you know, to experience, you know, games and events and things. And we like a lot of the same stuff. And so I think that's where we get a lot of our own time. And then I think just being very disciplined about time management is mine.

I 100% agree with that. But I will also say that there is a flexibility that comes with being in charge. There's huge responsibility, like heavy, heavy responsibility, but also there's a little bit of flexibility to manage your time in ways that are best for your family and.

For your marriage too.

So I'm very grateful for that and I don't take that for granted. So, so it's, yeah, guess the structure. But then also having that flexibility to say, hey, we're not coming in to work tomorrow because it's, you know, our kid needs us here or whatever.

Because we have a great team.

Yes. Oh, yeah, Yeah.

I love, I mean, you've tied it all together. I, I love that you've built the, the systems, the processes that allow you to be a servant leader, to build a great team that allow you to be a CEO. You're continually investing in yourselves, right? To like, learn and to bring that back and create fruits in your business and then that allows you some boundaries. All those things are so hand in hand. So good. All right.

It sounds so simple when she just summarizes like that. My word.

Yes, you're right. So simple.

Thank you guys for laying it out just like you did.

All right, last question. And this is the big question. So I know that we're very aligned on. I know your guys thought process on this question. We're very aligned in this. And as you guys think about your business and just this generational business that you have, you know, the opportunity to be a part of and in the future it goes to the next generation and say 30 years from now, y' all are sitting on your front porch and you're with your, not only your kids, but your grandkids and you're looking back at this incredible legacy that you all have. Not only the things you built, but really the way that you lived. What's the thing that you both really want your friends and your family and those closest to you to really remember you by what's most important that they remember in terms of who you are and how you lived.

You're going to make me go first. That's so hard. I just, I want everything that we do, whether it's in business or raising our kids or how our kids go out into the world, just to be a reflection of God's love to others. I mean, he's given us so much and I just, I know we don't always live up to, you know, the standards we should, but it's just to keep trying and to always just do our best to show his love to others.

Yeah, I mean, I think that the purpose of life is to know him, love him and serve him. And so I mean, how you do that in your different vocations in life, hopefully people see it in the way I love Jody and the way we live out our marriage and our kids. And you know, in our business it's a little harder when you've got so many lives you can't touch them on a daily basis. But the thing that I always want is that everybody has a better way of life for being involved with whatever we're doing. And so some people, that may mean that they get enough money to buy a new set of pots and pans or they may send a kid to college or they may enjoy getting off work at 2:30 so they can pick up their kids and go to baseball practice. And you know, some of them may end up, they can buy a new car, whatever it is. I want them to be able to have a better way of life. Hopefully that's drawn to what drives us, which is service to God. But in the end, you can't make sure that's in everybody's understanding of what we're doing here and why we're doing it.

I love that. You guys are incredible. Thank you so much for your time today for being on the podcast and man, what a journey it's been. I'm so blessed to get to know you and call you my friends. Thank you for the good work that you're doing in the world. I appreciate you guys.

Thank you. Ashley. Yeah, we're so grateful to be included and we're just so, so thankful for you and for the inspiration that you are.

Thank you.

Keep up your great podcast because I enjoy listening to them.

Thank you. Thanks for listening guys. I hope you took away all kinds of nuggets and new ideas from this week's episode. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a rating and review. We love to hear your feedback and give you a chance to be featured on the show each and every week. For more information on our spirit of community over competition and to access guest downloads and bonuses and all the resources we talked about on the show, head on over to the boutiquehub.com and join the community. We'll see you next week.